Episode 3: Betsy Stewart, The Zip Project - the Young Shall Inherit the Earth

Youthful Exuberance and Oyster Restoration: Betsy Stewart's Grassroots Journey

In this episode of OYSTER-ology, host Kevin Cox interviews 23-year-old Betsy Stewart, a passionate and self-driven marine scientist, about her dedication to oyster restoration. Betsy's journey from a childhood fascination with marine life to spearheading the Zip Project in Florida's Indian River Lagoon is detailed with enthusiasm and laughter. Betsy discusses her innovative, plastic-free designs for oyster growth, her determination despite challenges, and the strong support from her family and friends. Her stories are filled with joy and humor as she highlights the crucial role of oysters in environmental sustainability and her hands-on approach to conservation. She shares her educational path, love for marine life, and the pivotal influences that shaped her mission. Delving into the technical and ecological aspects, the episode covers challenges like funding, dealing with predators, and selecting optimal locations for oyster growth. Betsy highlights the vital role oysters play in filtering water, reducing erosion, and supporting biodiversity. Listeners get insights into the project's environmental benefits, community impact, and potential for growth This episode underscores the synergy between personal passion and grassroots activism in driving significant environmental change. Betsy describes her dreams of expanding her project, securing some funding and making a lasting impact on marine conservation, always punctuating her narrative with a refreshing, youthful energy and positive outlook.

00:00 Introduction to Oysterology

00:26 Meet Betsy Stewart: The Oyster Enthusiast

02:46 The Zip Project: A Grassroots Initiative

05:11 Betsy's Journey into Marine Science

09:12 Challenges and Innovations in Oyster Restoration

23:38 The Future of the Zip Project

27:43 Support from Family and Friends

28:48 Navigating Social Media Challenges

30:49 Why Oysters?

32:18 Keystone Species and Environmental Impact

35:53 Oyster Restoration Projects

39:02 Building a Business and Community

44:36 Data Collection and Challenges

52:06 Future Aspirations and Expansion

54:22 Conclusion and Future Plans

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Transcript

Episode 4, Betsy Stewart, The Zip Project

​ [00:00:00] ​

BUBBLES: Bubbles

Betsy Stewart: I think the deepest I've had to go up was about my shoulders. Which was very cold because it was in like January a little too cold for me. 

Kevin: I don't like to get much deeper than about my hips.

Bubbleso. Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters aquaculture and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host Kevin Cox.

My guest today is Betsy Stewart, who represents to me the kind of person who takes a small but good idea and through nothing but self motivation and passion, turns it into something that will one day become important. She started a grassroots operation run entirely by herself to develop and implement designs to restore and enhance wild oyster reefs in Florida's East [00:01:00] Coast estuaries.

After getting her bachelor's in environmental science with a minor in biology and earth, oceanic, and atmospheric science at Florida State University, Tallahassee, she's now working on a master's degree in aquatic environmental sciences. Also at Florida State. She also works with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and in all her free time has started the Zip Project to develop and employ oyster restoration efforts in the Indian River Lagoon, which is a 156 mile long estuary wedged between the barrier islands of Florida's East coast and its mainland. I was inspired by Betsy's independent, self driven passion for both oysters and the environment, and her willingness to put her time and energy into starting something very small, but vitally important, with the goal of growing it into something big.

I know you'll find her to be as inspiring as I did, [00:02:00] and, oh yeah! Did I mention that she's only 23 years old? In our energetic conversation, we talk about her efforts in shellfish restoration, as well as such things as tropical storms, the beauty of mangroves, stalking people on the internet, listening to dad, the shark bike capital of the world, and Prince Harry's connection to oysters.

So relax and take a deep breath of fresh, youthful exuberance, drive, and passion with my guest, Betsy Stewart.

Betsy, it is so awesome to have you on Oysterology. I can't tell you how excited I've been to talk to you. I like people who are self driven, self motivated to do important, interesting things. So when I first learned about the Zip Project, it was like, wow, this is really cool. Who are these people? And then I realized these people is just you. 

Kevin: So tell me about the Zip Project. What is it? [00:03:00] 

Betsy Stewart: So it is an oyster restoration project that I started just about a year ago. And I've always been interested in marine science. I've always had such a strong, you know, draw to the ocean. And I always knew I wanted to do something involving marine science. I just never really knew what direction I wanted to go in.

And during COVID, I was kind of just researching just a bunch of random information I was looking up. What was going on in the Indian River Lagoon, and I never really knew all these giant environmental problems we have down here in Florida, and I remember going to my dad and saying, like, why this is such a big problem.

Why is no one really doing anything? Why is there no, announcements? Why is there no projects? Why is there not a bigger outreach or awareness on all these different environmental issues that are going on? Like what can be done about [00:04:00] this? And he was like, it's a very simple solution, actually oysters.

And he's like, look them up, read all about them. They have all these environmental benefits. Just go and look at it. And I was like, how can this be such a simple solution? But no one really seems to be doing much about it. there's, little projects here and there, but it's not a wide known. Piece of information that people know. So I dove right into it and kept researching it as the years went by while I was still in school. And I was like, you know what, let's do something about it. Let's create designs. Let's talk to people and just see what people are doing, what kind of designs people are doing, what kind of projects people are doing. And let's go from there. And that's exactly what I did. I honestly really didn't expect it to go as far as it did, but. I'm in it really deep now. 

Kevin: I have to ask though, before you started this, did you enjoy eating oysters? [00:05:00] 

Betsy Stewart: I did. Yes, I enjoy eating all seafood, to be honest with you, but definitely oysters are up there with one of my favorites.

Kevin: It sort of feeds into, you know, the whole idea of restoration and keeping oysters, growing both for the environment, but also if it's something you love to 

Betsy Stewart: eat. 

Kevin: Definitely. It motivates you a little bit, too. 

Betsy Stewart: Just a bit. 

Kevin: So, let's just jump back real quick to your background. 

Betsy Stewart: So I grew up in Winter Park, Florida in central Florida, but I'd spent a lot of my time in New Smyrna, about an hour from where I was from.

My grandparents had a beach house there. So I spent a lot of my summers, any kind of free time I could have, I would spend it there. And I always knew I'd want to do something with marine science. Shout out to Mr. Carswell, my fifth grade teacher. He was the one that taught me everything. You know, we did an endangered species project. He was very big into marine science, and I was like, this is what I'm gonna do. Like, that's it. I'm done. Here we go. 

Kevin: that's pretty awesome. I 

Betsy Stewart: [00:06:00] continued on. You know, middle school, high school took marine bio classes, always was interested in the science classes.

And then in 2018, I graduated from Winter Park High School and started at Florida State University. I joined a sorority and I started off as a bio major. Just, I didn't know environmental science was actually a major here for a while. But then, You know, taking bio with all the pre med kids. That was not my gig. I found out environmental science was a major here and I switched over, which was a way better move for me. You know, the classes were definitely more my speed, definitely more my perks, my interest. And my senior year, I had the opportunity to intern at Gulf Specimen Marine Lab down in Panacea and that really solidified, like, I'm in the right major. I'm learning the right things. Like I'm on the right track. That internship was amazing. I learned so much more about marine species than I ever could. I learned about animal husbandry. I learned just [00:07:00] about, the ecosystem in the panhandle. I learned how to even give tours and get other people interested in, marine science. So it really solidified, like. I'm doing the right thing. I'm on the right path. 

Kevin: And being able to share it with others and inspire others, because what you're doing really is inspirational. I want other people, not just to hear the interesting things that you're doing, but to say, Hey, I can do this too.

Betsy Stewart: Yeah, I really did enjoy coming home from my internship, even now. Like, guess what I learned? look at this cool, video or whatever. all my friends were really into it, especially cause I was the only girl in environmental science in my entire sorority. No one else did this. 

Kevin: did your sorority sisters say like, wait, you, you do what?

Betsy Stewart: A lot of people would say I lived out their childhood dreams of actually, studying, marine bio and marine science. They're like, you continued on with the childhood dream. I was like, yes, I did. Absolutely. 

Kevin: Now, New Smyrna, Is this on the Gulf of Mexico?

New 

Betsy Stewart: Smyrna is on the East Coast. 

Kevin: What other bigger towns [00:08:00] that I might recognize are nearby? 

Betsy Stewart: It's in between Cocoa Beach and Daytona. 

Kevin: Right 

Betsy Stewart: in the middle of those two, yeah. 

Kevin: So much of the East Coast of Florida is just sort of beach, sand, and then the Atlantic, but there are inlets and estuaries and that sort of thing?

Betsy Stewart: Yes. So New Smyrna is. It's more of a barrier island. You have to take a big bridge over the northern end of the Indian River Lagoon to get to the beach and between the Atlantic Ocean and the mainland, you have New Smyrna and you have the Indian River Lagoon, which is this huge biologically diverse estuary that stretches from about New Smyrna all the way down 156 miles. it's really big. And it's super diverse. I think there's, over a thousand animal and plant species that can be found here. Very brackish water, so half fresh, half salt water. So a lot of different species live in this area, and it's really beautiful. I mean, my favorite restaurants overlooks it, and you can go kayaking, go [00:09:00] fishing, go paddle boarding. It's really amazing. 

Kevin: I love it. That is one of the amazing things about oyster aquaculture and wild oysters is that they're usually in really beautiful places. 

Betsy Stewart: For sure, yeah. 

Kevin: So you had this childhood interest that you then developed more in college and really ended some internship and saw that this was something that you really could sink your teeth into. What caused you to actually start the Zip Project 

Betsy Stewart: you know, I was really just talking to a lot of people playing around with these different designs, seeing what other people, were using material wise, shape wise, how well they were going, how successful they were. And I was like, I want to do this too. I would love to try this out.

So I played around with a lot of different designs, a lot of different materials, and the place that I did my internship my senior year, the Gulf Specimen Marine Lab, talked with them and they gave me an opportunity to use their dock and try out this project, which was [00:10:00] huge. I'm extremely thankful.

They let me do this and all I had to do was, get the resources myself, which luckily weren't overly expensive. So I was okay spending the money on that. And I had the opportunity to actually construct and put it out last July. And it's worked very, very well. It was almost kind of a tester because a lot of people I did talk to said in the grant funding grant scheme of things, people are like, we don't want to give money to people that have these really highly experimental projects. we want to give money to things that we know will work. So that really drove me. Like I need to put this out there. If I really want to get this started and I really, I want funding. I don't want to be using my personal bank account. 

Kevin: I'm very happy with how things are going. It definitely is going a lot better than I thought it would. I couldn't even dream to know, like, where I am with it now. I mean, it's amazing. So hopefully We'll get to do it in other places. 

Yeah. So I want to hear a little bit more about your [00:11:00] results, but first I'm curious about the design.

So I'm trying to picture what kind of structures you're building or how you're getting all of the oysters to grow the way they are. 

Betsy Stewart: So a lot of the people that I talked to were really against using plastic Obviously, you don't want that. I mean, that causes another problem. So a lot of people were trying to find, you know, biodegradable plastic free. And that was like my number one priority was I don't want to use plastic. I want to use something that will either biodegrade or is plastic free, won't release toxins and anything 

That's what make it unhealthy. So that was kind of my first idea. And a lot of people have been using steel galvanized metal and Cement are the two big ones that I've seen. And so I went towards the steel galvanized metal because that was cheaper and I do not know how to make cement. So I wasn't even going to touch that.

Kevin: Probably a little lighter to lift up and put in the water too, right? 

Betsy Stewart: And then a lot of people like to use just regular oyster shells because the [00:12:00] oyster larvae. Is really attracted to their own kinds, and they like the little dip in the shell, so I knew I really wanted to incorporate that as well, and a lot of people have also just been using a lot of different designs.

I've seen volcanoes, I've seen, cages, I've seen cages made out of different things, you know, all these different ideas, but one that really stuck out to me was kind of a corral system. Where they would make, rectangle squares and these just giant corrals. And so I was like, I really like that. And talking with a couple people that have done that, really said it seems to work very, very well in terms of preventing predators from getting in and preventing the shells from washing away because the shells aren't very heavy. That's why a lot of people seem to be using cement because it's easier.

Sticks. 

Kevin: So if you have storms, hurricanes, or just bad weather with heavy tides, your shells can wash away unless there's enough [00:13:00] of them or something else holding them down. 

Betsy Stewart: Yeah. I use those two and then just to prevent, you know, there's a lot of, snails and drills and a lot of animals that like to crawl under the dirt. So in order to prevent that, I. found a really, really great product. That's a biodegradable netting. And I put that as a base in my center so nothing can crawl underneath as well. 

Kevin: so then you have a bottom net and then a corral. Going around it and is there anything over the top of it or is that just at the 

Betsy Stewart: moment?

No, I've definitely played around with the idea if maybe, you know, that could be incorporated for, the next project or not, whether that would be worth it, whether that would have any sort of positive effect, whether that would improve it, or if it really wouldn't change anything. Um, I've definitely played around with putting something on top though, but I think it also would depend on the location of the next project.

Right now, there's really. Not a lot of predators that I've [00:14:00] seen. The main one being a crown conch snail, and I really haven't seen a lot. I've maybe 10. Is the most I've seen in a site visit. and that's really easy to just pluck out and chuck back to the ocean. So, 

Kevin: A quick word about snails. The crown conch melangina corona is found around oyster reefs and mudflats in Florida and other oyster growing areas. It feeds on oysters by inserting its proboscis between the valves of the shell when the oyster opens it to take in water and it eats it from the inside.

It's a villain on oyster reefs and can turn healthy reefs into barren outcrops of dead shell. But while they're nasty oyster killers, they do have exotic pointed spiral shells that every kid who goes to the beach wants to keep. So when you see them around oyster beds, take them!

So after you put these oysters in the water, in your corral or in the cages, you're not done.

You still have to go [00:15:00] back in the water and tend to them. 

Betsy Stewart: Yes. But thankfully, the area that I'm in right now was very shallow. Um, I think the deepest I've had to go up was about my shoulders. Which was very cold because it was in like January, 

so 

a little too cold for me. 

Kevin: I don't like 

to get much deeper than about my hips.

Betsy Stewart: So it was, it was a little difficult, but I do try to go, just to show the progression. You know, I like to take a lot of photos. I think half my phone camera roll is filled with photos. Pictures of these oysters. And I pray to God no one ever looks at the phone because they'd be very confused. And I like to show the progression. I think a lot of people are really interested, like, oh, this is actually working. Like you have photos from, July when you put it down to now and you can actually see it progress. You can actually see the growth. And I like to take photos of the individual shells as well to show again, you know, here's the shell at the very beginning with absolutely nothing on it.

And here's a shell now that is so just filled with these oyster [00:16:00] larvae that are starting to grow their shell and calcify and cluster and stick together. So it's really cool comparison. And also just like going, it's very calming out there and it's really pretty out there and. I feel very happy and like tranquil.

Kevin: when you, look at the growth and like the new growth and larvae and the clustering that you said, do you ever just stand in the water and scream triumphantly? 

Betsy Stewart: punch my fist in the air. Put some stuff on like my Snapchat and like send a friend.

So I'm like, look at my kids, look at my babies. And they're like, you're so weird, but like actually good for you.

Kevin: You're the oyster mama. 

 so now when I think about oyster aquaculture and growing oysters for food most of the farmers that I talk to usually say that the period of time it takes from spat to shuck is usually around a year and a half to two years to get them to the right size. So how quickly are they growing in the wild the way you're doing it? [00:17:00] 

Betsy Stewart: It's about the same. I would say it's very quick at first. I mean, I think within the first month of putting this in the water. We already saw spat on shell.

I I was like, this is incredible. And as the time went on, you know, through the rest of 2023, it was just growth after growth after growth. I mean, it was always just this big change. And then since then, the start of 2024, there still is growth. I definitely will still see spat growing.

I'll still see, them clustering together. But it's not as quick. and based off of what I've read, it seems that the beginning stage is very, very quickly. And then from the juvenile stage to the adult. It's a little slower. 

Kevin: It's maybe that's nature's way of protecting them. Like get them to grow big enough quickly so that they're a little safer from predators.

Let's go 

Betsy Stewart: with that. I like that. 

Kevin: So are you relying on wild oyster larvae or are you seeding anything after you put [00:18:00] shell down? 

Betsy Stewart: I debated going the seed route. but I didn't really have the resources at the time to do that. I have talked to a couple of people that sell seed. So that would be something maybe I would consider, but I just was looking for a location that I know that oysters have successfully grown and thrived and survived. And my theory was, as long as I'm in a location like that, this project will be successful and talking to the man that owns the aquarium and talking to the man that owns the dock and has lived there for so many years, that was like my number one question was have oysters grown. And he's like, yes, very well. you can see them and you can see them growing on, tires off the dock.

He's like, they do grow. I don't think you will have a problem attracting that. And it seems to have, you know, He's he was right. So, when I look for another location, that's also something I do consider is have oysters grown here in the past and recent in the past. I'm not talking, you know, 1950s 

Kevin: You know, if they've recently [00:19:00] grown and thrived there. If I can see some, a little ways away that, you know, in my opinion, my theorize that the project will successfully work in growing those oysters if it is in a location.That oysters have previously grown in. I guess there are very few oysters, that are truly wild, to grow them the way you are and to let the natural spawning in the water, you know, create the new growth. That's awesome. Have you, maybe this is getting a little too close to being oyster mama, but have you ever eaten any of them?

No, you come on. You haven't gone in there thinking. I wonder what these taste like. They're 

Betsy Stewart: not, they're okay. 

Kevin: Okay. So when they are big enough, are you going to be drooling as you look at your babies or are you going to, 

Betsy Stewart: it might be a struggle. Well, we'll have to, 

Kevin: I mean, you could apologize to them, 

Betsy Stewart: let 

Kevin: them understand [00:20:00] that this is for the greater good.

You're just checking, you know, 

Betsy Stewart: I mean, I definitely would be very intrigued. Like, are these actually going to taste good? Like Even though it's not for harvesting purposes, 

Kevin: if you wanted to eat them, is the, the waters aren't condemned. The waters are suitable for eatable oysters. 

Betsy Stewart: I would believe so. I definitely would ask beforehand just to double check and ask somebody that's actually grown up in that area, like, is this just going to be cool or am I going to get like sick?

So I would definitely ask, but. If he was like, I don't really see a problem, 

Kevin: you could take a slup or two. 

Betsy Stewart: I might take, I might take one and 

Kevin: one is one too many and two is never enough. So there are two schools of edible oyster cultures here. And that is the cultured oysters and the five different varieties that they grow and all that sort of thing.

And then there's also the wild [00:21:00] oysters, like what you're growing. And I know here in Chincoteague, Virginia, we have both, we have people growing them in bags and nets and that sort of thing. And then we have people actually finding beds, they early seeded years ago, but they're actually pulling them in those, what is it called?

The bunch is like called a culture or something. It's like, 

Betsy Stewart: I think it's called, yeah. 

Kevin: And they're pulling them off and using a little. Ball peen hammer and chipping the oysters off. So when you get them to eat them, they're gnarly looking. They're 

Betsy Stewart: like, 

Kevin: no, it's kind of like munching on a dinosaur of some sort.

So I suppose if you ever wanted to, that would be the kind of oysters that you would be producing. 

Betsy Stewart: It would, but I haven't really thought too much about aquaculture, I don't know if I would go that route. My grandfather, who the project is actually named after, was into aquaculture and he did have a shellfish lease down near Melbourne. So he was very into that. He definitely did it more as a hobby instead of, a full time [00:22:00] job, but he loved it. He also grew clams and scallops, but oysters were definitely 

Kevin: So you say you named the Zip Project after your grandfather.

Tell me about that. 

Betsy Stewart: So we called him Zip Project. His name is Jon Stewart, but we all called him Zip Project. All the grandkids. And, he had this lease. It was a big hobby. He's the, the one that owns this beach house in New Smyrna. He was just very. into the ocean, very into restoration, just very into conserving the environment.

And when I started really getting into this, me and him always, would have conversations about it. You know, he's like, this is, really cool. I'm glad you got into this. I really think you can do something with this. So when I was starting to look into this project, I always knew I wanted to name it the Zip Project cause Nothing really like that, but it has that personal touch as well. So 

Kevin: the family really 

Betsy Stewart: likes it too. 

Kevin: this sounds like a project of love [00:23:00] and I'm sure Zip Project was very proud of you. So I 

Betsy Stewart: sure hope so. You know, I'm going to believe that. Yeah. the rest of the family is really cool. 

They think this is really amazing. They're very supportive. You know, my dad gives me a lot of advice and ideas as well. So they're very interested. They love it. They're very supportive about it. And, you know, I think adding that name, you know, naming it after our grandfather adds that special little touch, like a family thing, 

Kevin: because I was wondering, like, The Zip Project prep, what does Zip Project like a lot 

Betsy Stewart: of, a lot of people wonder 

Kevin: I wanted 

Betsy Stewart: a name that wasn't too, generic or, something that caught people's attentions. You know, wanted people wanted to know, and that was kind of spiral into, okay, this is a really cool name. So like, what exactly are you doing? You know, really get into that conversation. 

Kevin: So right now you're operating just in one location, right?

What's your plan for expanding if you have one? 

Betsy Stewart: Yeah. That's definitely my next goal is to [00:24:00] really launch this project in another region in Florida, another, ecosystem just to show and see that this project can be successful. And again, the biggest requirement is as long as oysters are growing or have grown recently in that area.

And I definitely want to focus on more in an area that really needs filter feeders. Up here in Panacea, they really don't need filter feeders. they don't have an algae bloom problem. They don't have a septic tank problem. They don't really have a pollution problem as big as a place like the Indian River Lagoon, places like Lake Okeechobee, you know, all these different places that have these red tide problems, algae problems, brown water, you know, it's gross, it's disgusting, no one wants to go there.

So I definitely would love to see how much of a difference this project can make in an area like that just to see, okay, this is making a really big difference. Let's see if I put two of these projects next to each other, four, eight. So that's definitely, I'm [00:25:00] definitely looking in more of those kind of locations that really need oysters.

Kevin: So when you're driving down the road along the waterways of Florida, Are you kind of always looking out of the side of your eye saying, Hmm, that spot might be good. I 

Betsy Stewart: do. I really 

Kevin: do. I'd probably be stopping and looking for oysters. And it's like, anything in there? 

Betsy Stewart: I might've done that once or twice.

So when people see 

Kevin: the girl walking along the water up to her knees or shoulders saying, What the hell is she doing out there? That's you. No, I definitely 

get a little curious. Like, do you have any, you know? You don't have a reef. Do you, you want one, you know, who wants a reef? Everybody wants a reef, right?

I wouldn't want 

this. It's really cool. I promise. Is it dangerous? Like you're going into the water, especially if you're going up, you know, deeper into the water. there are larger predators, I think, in those areas. Are you ever concerned about. Sharks or anything else? I don't really 

Betsy Stewart: know.

I probably should be a little more concerned than I [00:26:00] am. I don't know. Don't you have a lot 

of gators down there? I don't know if it's because I'm used to it. I don't know if it's like, this really doesn't bother me. I mean, the beach I grew up going to, New Smyrna, is the shark fight capital of the world, so.

Yeah, so I might Ah, so 

Kevin: you've got this, it's like, bring it on, shark. I 

Betsy Stewart: might be a little used to it. 

Kevin: She's not kidding. New Smyrna Beach, Florida is known as the shark bite capital of the world. Volusia County, which includes New Smyrna, has the most shark attacks in Florida, with 343 incidents recorded. In 2023 alone, Volusia County had eight shark attacks. Bites representing 50 percent of the state's total in just one area.

According to the international shark attack file, Florida currently has the highest rate of unprovoked shark attacks in the world. In 2023, it had 16 unprovoked bites, half of them in new Smyrna. That's 44 percent of the U S total and 23 percent of unprovoked bites. Some estimate that your chances of getting [00:27:00] bitten by a shark in New Smyrna Beach are 10 times higher than anywhere else across the U. S. But hey, don't freak out about this. It's still dramatically less than your chance of getting struck by lightning. Also, most bites to humans here are usually the bite and release type deal. The shark realizes what it's mistakenly bitten into and moves on. Apparently, they don't like the way we taste. Still, it'll definitely ruin your day.

Betsy Stewart: if I hear a little splash, I'm like, what is that? But other than that, it really doesn't bother me. I almost enjoy it, I'm like, ooh, the water, yay! Which probably Might concern some other people, but 

Kevin: well, a pair of legs deep in the water around a bunch of jagged oysters isn't that attractive to a hungry predator anyway, right?

Betsy Stewart: I really hope not.

Kevin: So right now you're doing it all alone. Have you tried to drag any of your family members or sorority sisters or others into the water? No, 

Betsy Stewart: I don't think any at least my sorority sisters. Uh, they love it and they. You know, they're super [00:28:00] supportive. They all follow the Instagram account. But I don't think any of them, 

Kevin: they're not slipping into those sweaty waiters and then heavy rubber boots. Anytime soon. No. 

Betsy Stewart: And the fam kind of the same thing. My little brother is very interested. he's majoring in environmental science up here at Florida State. So whenever he can, he'll come with me to the site visits and he's a big fisherman, so, He's definitely very interested and intrigued by this. And whenever I go out without him or have meetings like this, he's like, how'd it go? How did you learn? My dad's had the same thing, you know, probably after this, I'm going to call my parents and say, guess what? This went well, they're very interested in it.

my dad's very, very helpful. He grew up going on the water. He grew up fishing, going to new Smyrna. So even going to this, the shellfish lease. So he has some knowledge and he definitely knows some people. So he's very helpful when it's, you know, Should I do this? I'm meeting with this person. What's something important I should say other than that, though. I rely a lot on [00:29:00] just networking, you know, emailing, following people on social media because that's what you got to do these days is people on instagram and I will stalk you. I will find your information and I will DM you or find that email and email you right away.

Kevin: I stalked you a little bit on Instagram and I do love all of the photos that you have of the shells and it's, it's really cool. 

Betsy Stewart: It took a while to really figure out social media. I mean, I don't understand it a lot for a 23 year old. Um, I have a lot of friends that are very into the whole influencer thing. So I really went to them like, how do I grow this? How do I make people want to follow and continue following me? You know, that was a really Kind of struggle that I had for a while was really getting that message out there on social media and getting people interested in it. And a lot of people were like, you have to post a lot. And I'm like, well, this is oysters. It's really hard to post every day about this. You guys, this is not a sporting thing where something happens every five minutes. it's hard to really find [00:30:00] things to post about every day. But you know, I do. Try to post two three times a week following people reposting things on the story, DM'ing people commenting, you know that sort of thing and a lot of people like it's the little things like that You know the more you comment then it's like, okay. Wait, this girl's commented three times. I gotta go check out who this is 

Kevin: you have a lot of followers, I mean when you're talking about Holding up pictures of shells. that's pretty damn good. 

But you had a lot of educational stuff on your Instagram too. not just you and the shells, but also information about oysters in general, and the environment in which they grow. 

Betsy Stewart: I have a friend who does, you know, her full time job is running social media account, shout out Olivia. She was like, do fun facts, show people why you're doing this with oysters, people like this might be cool, but why did you choose oysters? Like why didn't you use, clams, scallop, you know, oysters. So why 

Kevin: did you choose oysters? 

Betsy Stewart: You know, [00:31:00] I think it was just the amount of research that I did on oysters and comparing them to other filter feeders and just seeing that they have all these environmental benefits, you know, they can filter up to 50 gallons of water a day, like one single little shell can do that. I mean, that's incredible. And they can withstand drastic weather changes, which happens all the time in Florida. I'm pretty sure this state is bipolar. Raining one day and then 20 minutes later, it's bright and sunny. Iyou never know here and 

hot and humid, So humid, but right now it's cold. you never know at this state.

It's terrible. Love it. It's terrible But they can withstand all those drastic changes and they can adjust quickly they can Filter out nitrogen and phosphorus, that are in the waters and that algae feed off of to grow these giant algae blooms, those big green nasty things you see in the water. So they have all these benefits, but people don't know that. So I thought, [00:32:00] Why not share that information? Why not show people why I did choose oysters? You know, a little education side of things. And then I did the same thing with marine mammals. You know, I've always had an interest in manatees, dolphins, whales, all these different marine mammals.

So I wanted to incorporate that as well, but tie it back into oysters. Not just give really cool facts. Like manatees are cool. look at this cool fact about them, but manatees feed off of this. And then if they don't have seagrass, like oysters help with that, 

Kevin: Dolphins rely on their habitats, stuff like that. I mean, oysters are keystone species, so without them, an ecosystem could essentially collapse, So I looked a little into keystone species and learned that a keystone species is an organism, whether plant, animal, bacteria, or fungi, that has a disproportionately large impact on its environment. They play a critical role in the survival of other species, which in turn holds entire ecosystems together and supports biodiversity. Purple sea stars were the first recognized keystone species. Research by zoology [00:33:00] professor Robert T. Payne showed that removing the sea stars from a tidal plane in Tatoosh Island, New Zealand, Cut the tidal plane's biodiversity by half. Since then, scientists have identified many keystone species that are so important to an ecosystem. Like oysters, They're sort of ecosystem engineers, significantly modifying and building new habitat for other species by forming reefs, which also cleans the water and holds the shoreline together.

Think about honeybees, Their role as pollinators supports the reproduction of plants, which in turn provides vital food for a range of animal species. Without honeybees, we'd all eventually be dead.

 so I think that's really important to share to people, is look at all these indirect things oysters have, with all these different animals, all these different species, even with other people, you know? The coastline, shoreline erosion problems that we have here in Florida. They get to break up, wave energy. So all these strong storms we have here in [00:34:00] Florida, oysters can help slow it down and, you know, not prevent, but limits and decrease that wave energy, decrease the strength, which is, again, incredible because there are these, you know, little shells that people just think of eating.

 in Florida, one of the most fiercely protected things along the edges of water are the mangroves. And that's because of the root system, I think, really holds the shoreline together. 

Betsy Stewart: Yeah, and they provide a lot of habitats, there are a lot of nurseries for a lot of different fish species and sharks. And they're, they're also just really pretty. I mean, they're really, they make the shoreline look extremely pretty and aesthetic. Oysters can, have reefs around that. So that's almost an extra barrier, an extra layer of protection. So just showing people and having people understand like, wait, oh my gosh.

We need this, you know, getting people to want to have these projects, people wanting to contribute as much as they [00:35:00] can to oyster restoration. I want to give that out. I want to show people, I want to teach 

Kevin: people in a way. You're not trying to post a scientific treatise about oysters, but giving information does inspire people or create an interest.

I got to say, if I had waterfront property in Florida, I'd be planting oysters. I'd be throwing every oyster shell I ate out in the water when I'm done, hoping more grow on it. It's like protect your property. It's a great idea. And the benefits to the environment are remarkable. 

Betsy Stewart: Yeah, they really are. every week I'm looking up a fact and I'm like, wait, that's so cool.

Or I'll see someone else post, you know, interesting facts or something they learned from their own projects. And I'm like. Another thing oysters can do, like, oh my gosh. Who would have thought, you know, just stuff like that. Like I never would have thought oysters could be an extra layer of protection when it comes to shoreline erosion, I never thought they could break up wave energy. I would have never known that. I would have never even thought of them being able to do that. And it's [00:36:00] like, well, now I know, and I'm going to let other people know. 

Kevin: Are there many other people who, you know, in your area that are doing similar things, or are you the pioneer in New Smyrna, 

Betsy Stewart: I definitely know a lot of, you know, other projects going on. There's one here at Florida State with the FSU Coastal and Marine Lab, and they're working on rebuilding oyster reefs in Apalachicola Bay, but that's more for an over harvesting purpose, not for a filter feeder, improving the water quality aspect of it. But you know, it's still really interesting to learn what they've known, what they've gained, what doesn't work, what has been working, their next goals, things like that. And there's a lot of these projects going on in the Indian River Lagoon, near new Smyrna. Universities and big organizations like Brevard Zoo, like Nature Conservancy, like FWC are doing, oyster projects. It's a very up and coming habitat restoration industry, but [00:37:00] it's so new. everyone's doing different things. Everyone's trying out different designs, different materials, different theories. It's so new. It's so loose. So. it's kind of like, try out what you think will work and go from there. If it doesn't, try again. There's not really set in stone, rules or, strategies. it's loose. It's new, you know, everyone's trying these new things. I think it is becoming a little bit more well known to people okay, oyster restoration. this is a serious thing. This can solve problems. problems that we're having here in Florida. We need this. We need more to get this to us, especially in small communities. You know, these are happening in places like Tampa, in Miami, these bigger cities, but those small little coastal towns, not as much. 

Kevin: So it really is Personalized grassroots sort of thing. I don't know if you've followed much or had any involvement in the billion oyster project in New York and the Chesapeake. Didn't [00:38:00] Prince Harry visit when he was in states 

Actually, it wasn't Prince Harry. It was Prince William who waded into New York's East River to check out the ongoing success of the Billion Oyster Project, which is an initiative that seeks to restore oyster reefs to New York's waterways in order to rejuvenate the harbor's biodiversity, safeguard against strengthening severe weather, and connect the community with a more natural New York Harbor. Later that day, he discussed it with United Nations Secretary General Antonio Gutierrez with an aim to shine a light on scalable solutions to global environmental challenges through such things as the Billion Oyster Project and his own founded Earthshot Prize.

Betsy Stewart: And I think, a lot of, that's been so successful.

That's really gotten people's attention. And I, it's Florida's turn. Bring it here to like starting to get to that level of intensity and recognition for sure 

Kevin: And one of the things that I've [00:39:00] heard you've allude to from your website 

 you want to do more than just develop these reefs. You're actually trying to Market yourself and your services to others who want to do similar things. Tell me a little bit about that. 

Betsy Stewart: when I found out this could be something, I could grow into this. My initial thought was, all right, I'm doing this full time, like never working in an office again, but here we go, beats the 

Kevin: hell out of an office. Doesn't it? 

Betsy Stewart: Yes. You know, like, how can I get this to be a full time gig? And. We did recently register as an LLC, which is exciting. And I've dabbled with the idea of becoming a nonprofit.

And I've talked to a lot of consultant and business people, you know, how have you made money? How have you made this into your full time job and being able to make a living? 'cause. You know, you got to do that. Yeah. Um, can't, 

Kevin: can't live just on oysters, especially if you're not eating them anyway, so, you 

Betsy Stewart: know, unfortunately [00:40:00] not.

So, I was like, how can I make this? It's a business, a non profit organization. So taking me more seriously side of things, instead of just, okay, look, 23 year old grad students doing this, like woohoo, instead of, oh, she's a non profit, you know, a little bit more legit.

 so I kind of looked into, can I have a service off of this? people want this built. I come and build it for you And I do want to be involved. a lot of companies, a lot of organizations, a lot of people that I speak to in regards to wanting to do this project, if they have the land, they have the people, that's a big thing.

I don't want them just to, build it. And it's here's money for letting us use your design. Like, thanks. I want to be involved in it. I want to meet these people that I'm talking to. I want to be able to construct this project. I want to be able to, Educate people like this is why the project is built the way it is.

And I want to come down on a monthly basis. Like, how's it going? Is there any problem? Are you finding anything weird? Are you finding anything interesting? I want to be involved, but I do also want to make this [00:41:00] a full time thing. That is a goal of mine. After I graduate, I would like this to be a full time thing, whether it's nonprofit business, whatever it is, most likely will be nonprofit.

Kevin: It sounds like it's part consulting, and also actual physically developing and building the structures for others. 

Betsy Stewart: And it's, it's not like it's hard, it's not like I don't think these people could build this. It's not rocket science, it's fairly simple, but I want to be involved in it.

And, I do like meeting the people that I've talked to. I had the opportunity to go and speak as a presenter at the Gulf of Mexico conference in Tampa last month. And I got to meet a lot of people that I emailed back and forth. I got to meet some FWC people. ​I got to meet some people that were like, Oh, I've seen you on Instagram. This is really cool. I recognized your poster. So I like meeting people. I want to meet them in person. I want to talk to them in person and really gauge their interest in what we're doing and also show that like I, I do really care about this and I do really care [00:42:00] about the outcome and constructing it and all of the above.

Kevin: it sounds like you're right on the precipice of building kind of an expanding network of people doing it and helping coordinate all of it together. 

Betsy Stewart: And everyone in this kind of community, is really, really supportive. I mean, everyone emails back, everyone's like, this is interesting. This is cool.

you have something that could really change things. You have something that seems to be working. Like, I'm excited for the future. And it's either, let's meet, let's talk. Let me learn more about what you're doing. Let it, let me tell you what we're doing. Let's see if we can figure something out.

Or if it's, we don't have the funding, we have too many projects, so sorry we can't help you. they will point you in other directions and give you recommendations. Like, go read this paper. Go talk to this person.

It's a great community. I mean, these people are really, really great. Oyster 

Kevin: people are a passionate bunch, I find. 

Betsy Stewart: Even in just the marine science world. I've talked to, aquariums, conservation people, [00:43:00] FWC, you know, government people. And all of them are, passionate. They want you involved. They're, they're excited that I'm interested in having something and producing something and they want to help as much as they can, whether them helping you or leading you to someone else that might either be a better fit, might have better information, might actually have land of some sort or resources of some sort. So it's great. It's really great. Cause I never knew. I never knew If I wouldn't be taken seriously, that was a big fear of mine was sure. Am I going to be taken seriously? Oh, I hate saying this, but you know, I, I am young. Like, I don't, I'm still in school, you know, are people going to take this seriously? Like I'm one person and I want to be taken seriously and show like, this is a serious thing. Like I have the passion, I have the drive, I have the creativity. I have these resources. I just need a little bit more. I need that push. I need that one, you know, Take a little chance on me. 

Kevin: Well, 

 I think you're destined to do big things with this and [00:44:00] I can't wait to watch it happen. So what kind of oysters are these? 

Betsy Stewart: Eastern oysters. 

Kevin: I guess that's the only kind of oyster that would grow. Yeah, 

Betsy Stewart: you know, here in Florida, at least. 

Kevin: You've mentioned algae blooms, And we've heard about these massive oyster die offs from what is it? MSX or other diseases or pollution. have you had much opportunity to look at that? 

Betsy Stewart: not as much as I have with the algae blooms and with red tide and septic tank and fertilizer runoff. 

There are, these diseases that have been killing off oysters, but I haven't really been looking much into that. I probably should. It 

Kevin: sounds like you haven't needed to yet because your oysters seem to be thriving. you're focusing a lot on data collection and you're actually tracking this. Tell us about what kind of data do you collect and what do you do with it? 

Betsy Stewart: So like I mentioned earlier, this is a new and growing thing. And a [00:45:00] lot of people really haven't come up with a set of, this is what you look up when you do oyster restoration. This is the data you collect. This is what you record. So usually when I go, I take down what time I'm there and what time I leave. I take down the weather. the air temperature, the water temperature. The salinity and the pH. Is it acidic? Is it basic? Is the salinity lower? Maybe because it rained or is it a little higher? That sort of thing. Just to show, these different, small things, like the salinity. Look at these different numbers and oysters are still here and they're still growing. Look at the water temperature. I think in July, it was in the seventies, eighties. And then in December, January, it's in the fifties. Look at this range. that oysters are able to still live in And I also take down the tides when we're high tides, when we're low tides. I try to go during low tide cause it's easier to walk and see, but sometimes my schedule doesn't allow me to, so I try to do low tide. Sometimes that doesn't happen.

Kevin: And the rest of the time is when you're up to your [00:46:00] shoulders. I 

Betsy Stewart: would imagine. Yes. 

Kevin: Yes. 

Betsy Stewart: I would like to not do that again, but cause it's hard to show photos. Like you can't see anything like, ah, it's too deep. Um, and then I try to do clarity, which is just taking photos. You know, Hey, look at these photos.

 I'm standing on a dock and you can see perfectly down to the bottom. And then I do observations on the spat and larvae you know. Spot is still growing. They're starting to calcify. They're starting to form that shell. They're starting to cluster and stick together. you can start to see like a reef shape you know, they're starting to take shape and then I do just other observations, you know, what, sometimes the tide is so low, the project is completely out of the water, there was a crown conch snail on the project, little things like that after hurricane Adalia. What, what was the condition of the project in after a hurricane? Thankfully, nothing. There was no damage, nothing washed away. I was really nervous going to that. I was like, it's going to be gone. It's gone, it's destroyed, and it wasn't. So I was like, oh, yes, [00:47:00] this is really cool.

Kevin: and proves the point of what you're doing. Yes, I will mention that 

Betsy Stewart: any chance I can is it survived a hurricane. And, just stuff like that, and take a lot of pictures. I mean, a Pictures of the project itself from different angles, taking, video footage, taking pictures of individual shells.

you can't count each individual little spat. So it's kind of like, look at these photos. There's 20 pictures of shells, all 20 have spat on it. And two of them have dead spat, that sort of thing. And I don't have a lot of tools. I know people that sit there and measure, the length and width of the spat, There's a lot of different measurements and data that people collect, but I was just, again, one person doing this. I can only do what I'm able to do. And I am lucky that I am able to at least get, pH, salinity, water temperature, the, uh, marine lab lets me use some of their equipment for that. They're really great So I am grateful that I am at least able to show, some data, some progress, some sort of [00:48:00] relation in terms of the environment conditions. So. 

Kevin: You know, I'll bet there are a lot of undergrad and grad students in Florida and who would come to Florida, who would love to work with you and just on a volunteer basis, it's, 

Betsy Stewart: you know, that's the goal.

And right now, obviously I just want to get another project in the water somewhere, so I'm really not picky. I want to work with universities, companies, independent people, zoos, aquariums, it doesn't really matter. As long as they have some sort of. Passion for marine science or they do something involving that or they want to get into habitat restoration They want to get into things like this like 100 percent open to it, 

Like I will meet you anytime Anywhere, you know, I will talk to you anytime anywhere. I'm very open. 

Kevin: So Starting new projects or looking for the next one or the one after that. do you have any concern about the What do they call it? The NIMBY, not in my backyard, kind of thing where people are [00:49:00] going to either not give you permission to do it where you want or complain if it's nearby.

Not yet. 

Betsy Stewart: I think I would need a location first. But that's also why I tend to go towards bigger companies and organizations like Brevard Zoo, for example. They're a well known place. They might have space So I've steered definitely more towards that rather than the independent person just because.

They might have more resources and know how to handle situations like that. they're probably used to those situations and they probably know exactly the location. I would want to do this then, you know, they definitely better than I would. When I talked to the Marine Lab, their one thing was like, you know, they do tours on the dock.

They do a little living tour, living docks field trip. And they're just like, don't put it near there. Other than that, like you're fine. Don't put it near the boats and don't put it near where we give tours. And I was like, okay, here we go. 

Kevin: So now as amazing as all of this sounds, there's [00:50:00] gotta be a part of this job that sucks because a part of every job sucks. What's the worst part of this to you? 

Betsy Stewart: The money. I have to use like my own personal bank account at the moment. And luckily it's not overly expensive and it's not like I'm dropping thousands of dollars. But it would be really nice if I didn't have to do that anymore. And maybe, you know, I could spend a little more money on things like social media and marketing and getting the word out better and maybe actually purchasing measurement tools of my own to collect data instead of borrowing constantly.

When I go again, I can definitely purchase that on my own. I just would really prefer not to. 

Kevin: Well, I mean, you're a 23 year old student, so it's not like you've got all of this disposable income to throw around. 

Betsy Stewart: I need to find that draw, finding that, attention grabber, finding that draw to switching it from, this sounds interesting, to, okay, we need this, we are doing [00:51:00] this, we are going to find a way to do this, has been A little challenging.

Well, 

Kevin: going on the speaker circuit, like, it sounds like you've already started that. I'm sure is an excellent way to do it. I hope so. Okay, so I've asked you what's the worst part. What's the one thing that just makes all of the rest worthwhile? 

Betsy Stewart: That I'm making a difference. I think that I'm actually doing this and it's, I hope, it's going to make a big difference. You know, it's going to change the environment, environmental science, the marine world, and even indirectly affecting the community, coastal towns, you know, people that maybe rely on commercial fishing and harvesting and things like that. Oysters help. They make it look pretty. You know, people don't want to go paddleboarding on brown water.

They want to go paddleboarding on clear water so they can see everything underneath instead of saying, Why is it brown? This is disgusting. I'm never coming here [00:52:00] again. Um, so even just little things like that, I'm excited that this has been working and I'm excited to where it's going to go. And I never know what the future is going to hold. I never know what I'm doing. A week from today. I never thought I'd be on a podcast talking about this. So 

Kevin: you never know what you're doing tomorrow. Where do you see yourself in five years? Oh, 

Betsy Stewart: five years. Um, in five years, I do hope this is a full time business, whether that's a nonprofit, a business, whatever that is.

And that I'm making a real difference, that I am being recognized, you know, instead of me going out and reaching out to people people are reaching out to me like, hi, I want the Zip Project. I need to do the Zip Project. I need this on this land. I need this in Jacksonville. I need this in Fort Lauderdale. I need this in Sarasota. I need this in Alabama. I need this in Georgia, you know, in five years, I do hope to have expanded beyond Florida, whether it's Gulf States, whether it's East Coast States. And also. Again, have that draw, [00:53:00] have people reaching out to me instead of me emailing 10 people a day saying, hi, my name's Betsy.

This is what I'm doing. I'd love to chat. 

Kevin: It always starts with groveling a little bit, but that's good because you don't seem shy about doing that, which is great. I 

Betsy Stewart: really have no shame. You know, I meet somebody and they're like, email me and I'm like, oh, I will. You'll hear from me today or tomorrow.

Kevin: This isn't just polite talk. I will follow up with you. I 

will. Yes. I will be emailing you and I'll probably go follow you on Instagram. I think that your whole data collection thing is really helpful for your expansion plan, because if, people want to do something with you one of the first questions they're going to have is what's the difference in the water and the temperatures and what experiences could we expect to have in different environmental conditions? 

Betsy Stewart: a part of me was like, I have to write something down, I think. 

Kevin: in a year or two, I'm going to pester you for a follow up so we can see how the babies are doing now.

 I'll already 

Betsy Stewart: say yes. 

Kevin: [00:54:00] I have absolutely no doubt that you are going to be incredibly successful and you're not only gonna grow what you're doing you're gonna inspire others and anybody out there that's looking for an opportunity to make a difference you're the one they need to call because it's a win win Mother Nature is happy about it, too. 

Betsy Stewart: Thank you so much 

Kevin: Well Betsy Stewart, this has been so interesting and fun and thank you so much for taking the time and being my guest. 

Betsy Stewart: Yeah, thank you for asking me 

Kevin: Since I sat down with Betsy, she's been very busy growing oyster reefs around Florida, including adding new reef projects and Panacea, Melbourne, Panama City, and New Smyrna Beach. And she's been giving presentations of her work to people, including presenting at the recent International Conference on Shellfish Restoration. And she just launched a new and improved website, The Zip Project.com, which you should definitely [00:55:00] check out to get a good look at the impressive work she's doing. 

 Well, that's it for. This episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks to my guest, Betsy Stewart. As always show notes can be found on this episode's page and if you enjoyed it, please rate or review it on whatever podcast platform you listen in on I'm your host, Kevin Cox. Join. Me next week when we pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic

bubbleso.