Episode 11: Dana Hines & Beth Simonds, Mixing Besties and Business at Stonington Farms Shellfish

In this lively episode of OYSTER-ology, host Kevin Cox welcomes Dana Hines and Beth Simonds, co-owners and oyster farmers at Stonington Farms Shellfish in Mystic, Connecticut.  The conversation delves into their profoundly strong friendship, their unique roles in the business, and their collective commitment to producing high-quality oysters. The episode is filled with humorous and touching moments, covering topics from the many challenges of oyster farming to the deep bond between Dana and Beth. They share anecdotes about their beginnings, the ups and downs of managing the farm, their personal quirks, and the emotional and financial challenges they face. Our raucous discussion is filled with laughter, interruptions , and unwavering support of the two women and how they manage to balance their friendship with their business.  This episode is sort of a continuation of Episode 8, with Beth and her other partner and spouse, Kris, where they discuss the business of Stonington Farms in an equally entertaining and moving conversation. So if you haven't heard that episode yet, you should go listen to it now and then come back here for this episode, so it all makes sense.

NOTE: This episode contains some explicit language or topics, so you may want to make sure the kiddies and HR are not listening in...

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene

00:22 Meet the Guests: Dana Hines and Beth Simonds

00:31 The Story of Stonington Farm Shellfish

01:11 A Deep Dive into Friendship and Partnership

02:36 Challenges and Hilarious Moments in Oyster Farming

05:03 Dana's Background and Journey

09:43 Beth's Personal Struggles and Support System

20:56 The Decision to Buy the Farm

24:59 Roles and Responsibilities at the Farm

27:54 Meet the Team: Board Members and Titles

28:23 Marketing Strategies: Lessons from the Grateful Dead

29:01 Oyster Tasting: First Impressions and Reactions

29:19 The Beauty and Anatomy of Oysters

31:37 Getting Muddy: The Fun and Challenges of Oyster Farming

34:17 Winter Woes: Staying Warm and Dry

35:21 The Joy of Sorting and Perfectionism

36:41 Public Engagement: Raw Bars and Shucking Classes

40:23 Challenges and Setbacks: Weather and Sewage Issues

42:23 Balancing Business and Personal Life

46:32 Pride and Regret: Memorable Moments in Oyster Farming

49:03 Concluding Thoughts: Friendship and Business

Links: 
https://vimeo.com/946310418?&login=true
Video: Rising Tide To Table. An outstanding video highlighting the work of Stonington Farms Shellfish and Chef Emily Mingrone

https://www.foodwalkers.com/foodwalkers/2024/1/21/stonington-farms-shellfish-shucking-it-forward-with-love-amp-oysters.   A post with numerous photos by OYSTER-ology host, Kevin Cox, about Stonington Farms Shellfish on Foodwalkers.com

https://www.stoningtonfarmsshellfish.org/  Stonington Farms Shellfish website.

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

Transcript:  Episode 10: Dana Hines & Beth Simonds, Mixing Besties and Business at Stonington Farms Shellfish

[00:00:00] Bubbles.

Kevin: Alright, let's see here. Let me just make sure our levels are good. Dusties. Dusties. 

Dana: Shweaty balls. Shweaty balls. Dusty muffins. Shweaty. Shweaty balls. 

Kevin: You'll be happy to know that I hit record like three minutes ago.

Beth: Bubbles. 

Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters, aquaculture, and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host, Kevin Cox. My guests today are Dana Hines and Beth Simonds, oyster farmers and two of the three owners of Stonington Farm Shellfish in Mystic, Connecticut. If that sounds familiar, it's because we did a prior episode on Stonington Farm Shellfish with Beth and her husband Kris, the third owner, to learn about their very personal and touching story of how they came together and started that farm.

If you haven't heard that episode yet, it's episode 8 of the podcast, then you should go listen to it now and then come back here for [00:01:00] this kind of part 2 so that it all makes sense. Because it would be incomplete to talk about Stonington Farms shellfish without including Dana. She's as critical a component of the operation as Beth or Kris.

She's also the lifetime best friend of Beth's and together they form a wildly powerful, cohesive, and absolutely hilarious team who are unafraid to expose some of their more personal feelings about working together. In my raucous, no holds barred discussion with these two besties, over which you'll see I had very little control, we hear more than just about the good and bad of their oyster farming realities.

We witness an inseparable friendship and bond between two people which I think is rare these days. It's said that opposites attract, and that's what their remarkable relationship looked like. Beth's high energy cynicism contrasted against Dana's dry, self deprecating humor But you'll quickly see that as much as they are opposites, they're also the same.

And the power of that combination is absolutely high [00:02:00] voltage. Through sharing every thought and finishing each other's sentences, they unavoidably reveal their incredibly honest and ironclad support for each other, along with their Equal and uncompromising commitment to grow the very best oysters as they possibly can despite hardships, mishaps, and constant learning.

It's that emotional bond, combined with Beth's powerful connection to Kris, that makes Stonington Farm Shellfish such a special and unique majority woman owned operation. That seems at one moment wildly successful, and at the next, just scraping to hang on. I'll be honest, this was a challenging interview to do for the simple reason that none of us could stop laughing most of the time, and the discussion veered wildly all over the map.

It took hours to edit, but it was a blast to go through and pull out such discussions like the zen moments of oyster farming, the problem with oyster farm partnerships, the joy of getting sweaty and muddy. Jan [00:03:00] Brady's boyfriend, helplessly watching your oyster crop freeze to death, the perils of peeing in your waders, the inner world of oyster farming, the true meaning of friendship and balancing that with business, and so much more with my guests, Dana Hines and Beth Simonds.

Dana Hines and Beth Simonds, thank you so much for being on OYSTER-ology with me today. 

Beth: Thank you for having us. 

Kevin: I've been super excited about this. Beth, we've spent a little time together, but Dana, there's so much about you that I don't know. 

Dana: I'm like George Glass. 

Kevin: Who the hell is George Glass?

Dana: Jan's boyfriend.

Kevin: Who's Jan? 

Dana: Jan Brady. 

Kevin: Oh. 

Beth: Oh. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. 

Kevin: It's so funny you mention that because when you and Kris were telling your stories and the kids and everything, I was thinking something along the lines of, The lines of the Brady Bunch of Bivalves. 

Beth: Yes, a less attractive, uh, we don't have a band. We don't all [00:04:00] ride around in a wooden paneled station wagon.

Kevin: And I didn't see Alice. You must have given her the day off. 

Beth: Alice is not here. She's, uh, playing meat counter with Sam the Butcher. 

Kevin: So you watched way too many episodes of this. 

Dana: That was the only thing that would get us inside when we were little. The Muppet? It's in the Brady Bunch. And then we were like, back out.

Kevin: Why didn't the Muppets have sea creature Muppets, like Muppet shellfish? 

Beth: I don't know. I, but we were obsessed with the Muppets. 

Dana: I did a report on Rachel Carson when I was in fourth grade. 

Kevin: No kidding. 

Beth: Who was Rachel Carson? 

Dana: She wrote about all the chemicals and pollutants that were destroying the environment and how it was called Silent Spring. She wrote because there were no birds. We had to dress up like the person we were writing about. 

Kevin: Did you dress up like Rachel Carson?

Dana: Yeah.

Kevin: What does that mean? 

Dana: I think I just wore like a skirt and a, like a, like a sailor top, like a [00:05:00] twenties. It was a long time ago. 

Kevin: Quick SIDEBAR on Rachel Carson. She was an American marine biologist, environmentalist, and writer who's widely regarded as one of the most influential figures in the modern environmental movement and a true 20th century muckraker. She's best known for her book Silent Spring, which was published in 1962, that documented the harmful effects of pesticides, particularly DDT, on ecosystems, wildlife, and human health.

That book is credited with sparking global concern about environmental issues which led to the eventual ban of DDT in the US and the establishment of the Environmental Protection Agency in 1970. Dying at just 57 years old in 1964, she was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Jimmy Carter in 1980.

Kevin: Alright, so Dana, I want to know about you, and I already know that you played Rachel Carson when you were a kid, but tell me more.

Dana: Well, I'm from Mystic, right here. I've lived here my whole life. [00:06:00] My, uh, my mother's from Michigan. My dad is from West Hartford, and he would come to Mystic, or Groton Long Point, every summer with his parents, and his sister, and his brother. And then, when he met my mother He was in the Air Force. They got married and they decided to move here and live here permanently.

So, I've been here my whole life. I just grew up here. In the water, swimming at the beach, on the boats, my dad was a, like, fished and, um, all his friends had boats, he went tuna fishing, and it was just fun being around, sort of, a lifestyle. 

Kevin: So, with all the swimming and everything that you did, did you ever pull up an oyster out of the 

Dana: Oh, sure. Yeah. 

Kevin: Well, 

Dana: you feel around for clams with your toes when you're out swimming and you look at it and throw it back in because [00:07:00] who cares? Right? 

Kevin: Did you ever eat them when you pulled them up with your toes?

Beth: No, no, 

Dana: no. 

Kevin: Um, 

Dana: yeah, I didn't eat an oyster until maybe a year, two years ago.

Beth: Kris made her.

Dana: Till Kris made me eat an oyster.

Kevin: . So, how did you get involved in oysters and aquaculture? 

Dana: I got involved in it because, um, Beth, 

Kevin: right. When did you first meet Beth? 

Dana: I met Beth, uh, when we worked together in the nineties.

We worked for a display company that made watch displays. Yeah. And so I did screen printing and she, yeah. And I started out doing like screen printing and the, like, the manufacturing part of it. And then I worked my way up to. Being a designer for it. My parents were friends with the guy who [00:08:00] owned the company.

And so I guess Beth thought that it would be fun to be friends with me. So she could get away with stuff, but it didn't really work like that. But I knew her mom before I knew her because her mom worked there and we just. Hit it off immediately, just like, where have you been all my life? 

Beth: Right. 

Kevin: So you hit it off right away.

Dana: Right away. Like, um, she was getting married. 

Kevin: So you were there for the first marriage. 

Dana: Yeah, I was there when she was engaged and, but that was really young in our relationship. And she had already like, uh, invited everybody and she said, you come to my wedding too. And I said, okay. So I went and I held her dress in the bathroom so she could pee, right?

Beth: That's true love. 

Dana: Yeah. 

Beth: I was so drunk. Because I didn't want to be there. 

Kevin: Why were you there? 

Beth: Because it was too late. And I was 20, so stupid. 

Dana: And I didn't know any of this. So like this new friend that was having a good time, hanging out with my [00:09:00] new friend and 

Kevin: Holding her dress. 

Dana: Starting her life and being a part of it and not knowing that it was hell.

Kevin: How quickly did you come to that realization? 

Dana: I would say when you built your house, a little before that, when you were in the old house, I was there every night. I would come over every night and we just hung out, kept talking. Each other company and I, I got the impression that he was crabby and I thought, well, I'm, I'm really, I'm good friends with this person, like I, she might be my best friend and, but I don't get along with her husband or I don't really know him that well.

And I think that's kind of weird, but whatever. So I just focused on her and, but then when they built a house next to her parents house, I kind of started to see that it was not. It's fun, but where there was always an explanation for it, like, [00:10:00] oh, was sugar is low or is that must be why he's.... 

Beth: You talk your way through it. You can only hear, "well, just leave" so many times and you're like, you can't just leave. Like if a restraining order is not going to keep me safe, what do you think just leaving is going to do? I'm going to stay with my parents and make them targets? No.  It's not how that works. 

So, so she, she kept me from killing myself for 20 years.

Dana: Unknowingly. Until I knew, which was really late in the game. I didn't know how bad it was. 

Beth: I didn't work for a long time. I just stayed home with the kids because I didn't, I didn't want him with them. Um, and it worked fine because he didn't want me to have any control of money or any autonomy. And so I just became a mom. Yeah. So I would, I would just like. Live for Dana to come over at 4:30 and just like watch the clock, like, Oh my God, what are we going to have for dinner? What are we going to watch on TV? Like it, that was my, that was my relief. And I would be so sad when she [00:11:00] left because then it's like, Oh, I'm, I'm in this shitty life again.

Kevin: Right. Yeah. You had four kids, right? 

Dana: Yep. 

Kevin: So you had your hands full. So what a friend. 

Beth: Yep. She's my lady. 

Dana: And if I had known what was happening, I would have been maybe a different story that we're telling. 

Beth: Yep. Yep. Yep. 

Kevin: In what way? 

Dana: I don't know. I was sad that she didn't feel like she could tell me how bad it was. Because I felt like I could have helped more if I had known. 

Beth: I think it's you just don't acknowledge because then you feel it. 

Dana: Mm hmm. 

Beth: So the minute you say it out loud, it's real. 

Dana: Yeah. 

Kevin: How long ago did you actually get away from him? 

Beth: In 2020, it was official. 

Kevin: Mm hmm. 

Dana: But it was before that. And you tried to 

Beth: I did try to get out once before that, and, and you just can't.

Kevin: Well, you're definitely a survivor, and it's amazing that you got out of that and 

Beth: Yeah, it took me a long time to tell that story, and then I said it [00:12:00] once, and I thought, okay, I did it. But I still, I do things like this, and I think, what if he ever hears this? It's, you know, the documentary that we're doing, a big part of my story with Kris is what I left to come here, but I'm not going to stay quiet anymore. It's just scary to talk about it. 

It used to be scary because I thought people would think less of me. Now it's scary because I don't know what his reaction will be. 

Kevin: Well, you've got friends like Dana who are going to be watching your back. 

Beth: Yep. I love my Dana.

Kevin: You guys have a bond that is just like, 

Beth: it's weird isn't it, we're so different and weird.

Dana: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kevin: You have this energy between the two of you. 

Beth: Yeah, it's lightning in a bottle.

And I'm out. I'm taking applications for new best friends. 

Dana: I'll stay on for two weeks to train. 

Beth: Oh, okay. She's giving her two weeks notice? 

Kevin: She's giving notice. Some people just walk away. 

Beth: You gotta know how to make a good quesadilla. 

Kevin: You know, though, there's no severance package here. 

Beth: Oh god, [00:13:00] no. We don't live like that. 

Dana: No. 

Beth: Health insurance? What? What's that? Medicine? No, you stitched that shut on your own. 

Dana: That is why I work at the hospital. 

Beth: Yeah. 

Kevin: Have you ever been injured doing oyster related work and had to go get treated at the hospital? 

Dana: No, I, the injuries that I've gotten were just like minor scrapes and I, I had one day where I kept falling down, 

Beth: it was hilarious. The best thing ever. She just like take a step and fall over. 

Beth: I think it's the bibs and the boots. 

Beth: Yeah, and you get like hot.

Beth: Yeah. 

Kevin: There's no elegant way of putting on or taking off bibs. 

Dana: No. 

Beth: No, there really isn't. It's somehow I feel so attractive in them. I can't really explain it. 

Dana: I think I It's like putting on armor.

Beth: I feel, when I put on the bibs, I feel the way normal women probably feel when they put on a dress. It's very strange. I've never admitted that out loud before. 

Dana: I agree though. I like wearing them. 

Beth: Yeah. This is where I'm supposed to be. This is what [00:14:00] I do. 

Dana: Feels natural to have them on. 

Beth: And she pees in hers all the time. I don't do that. 

Dana: Not all the time. 

Beth: Just sometimes. Sometimes.

Dana: One time. One time.

Beth: It's a great story.

Kevin:  Now  are these waterproof bibs or... 

Beth: Well they're waterproof on the outside and on the inside. You have to start by knowing I'm I'm not a great driver I drive the big trucks all the time the smaller the vehicle the harder time I have and boats are really difficult and The wind in this Bay picks up You know, without you even realizing it. And so Dana and I brought the boat home to do something and could not dock the boat because the big pleasure boat was at the end and you have to be really careful because she has. A swim platform that Kris built out of mahogany and that's his baby. So don't chip the swim platform. So watch that So that was back too far and hanging over where I needed to come in on port to dock And the wind was pushing me away really quickly. And so Dana, queen [00:15:00] that she is jumped out to push the boat. 

Kevin: You jumped out into the water 

Dana: Yeah, it was like up to my waist, right? 

Beth: So she jumped out to push on starboard You To hold me to the dock so I could jump out and cleat. And in the meantime, we had tenants show up and they're like yelling to me on the dock because they knew my mother at the, the borough school and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dana: And I'm just standing there and I had to. I, all of a sudden I just said, "I'm peeing in my Grundens!" 

Beth: And I said, what? And she said, "No, like right now I'm actively peeing." 

Kevin: Well, that's because you were fighting like a 30 knot wind. Trying to pull the boat against. 

Beth: I had to go, too, but I kept it together. 

Dana: But I was in the water, so I figured why not?

Kevin: So I'm picturing you in your bibs. Yeah. But you're not so deep that the bibs are filling up. No. Mm-Hmm. And then you pee. 

Dana: Yeah. I had to pee. I had... 

Beth: Into her boots. 

Kevin: So then what do you do? Do you then just like dip down and like fill 'em up or what do you 

Dana: Well, I was already submerged. They're [00:16:00] open in the bottom, but I, I got, I couldn't stop laughing 

Beth: and then had to find out laughing.

Dana: I was like rolling around on the dock laughing. I could not stop laughing. 

Kevin: Yeah. I'm sure the, uh, 

Beth: it's the funniest thing I ever, yeah. 

Kevin: I'm sure the guests who were coming to the studio, 

Beth: they were like, can we get 

our money back? 

Dana: Ooh, I think we're in the wrong place. 

Beth: Yeah. This is not what we paid for. So, but yeah, that was like one of my favorite Dana moments. Cause we think everything is funny that the other person does. Nobody else has to, I don't really care. Yeah. But we think we're hilarious and that's all that matters. Like if you don't like it, you can go find somebody else to hang around with. 

Kevin: So when you guys met and you became friends. What got you actually on to the farm and doing oyster work?

Dana: Yeah, so all of our summers from the beginning of our friendship 

Beth: This is where Dana feels sorry for herself so just strap in. 

Dana: We go to the beach on the weekend Hang out, like spend the whole day [00:17:00] swimming, talking, just having a nice relaxing day every weekend that we could. And then she meets this guy and like stops going to the beach with me.

And one day she left the beach to go with him. After we had planned our day together at the beach, and I was like, what is happening? So, 

Beth: I'm a bitch. 

Dana: It was made me really sad. So sucked it up a little bit for a while and then she said well Why don't you come one Saturday and help out on the farm and see what it's about and it's really fun And 

Beth: I knew she'd love it.

Dana: So I did I went and I spent the whole day and I couldn't walk the next day because it was so physically demanding. I was covered. In mud. I didn't have any overalls or anything. So all my, my clothes were all was coated in mud. And it was like, I felt so good afterwards. It was [00:18:00] just like a really satisfying day.

And so I would go every Saturday and help out and go to the beach on Sunday. Um, yeah. So I just volunteered, show up and help out. And, and, um, We'd have dinner afterwards and then they had the thing with the partner who didn't want to be partners anymore. 

Beth: There was a partner before Dana. who had a very different vision for the farm.

We tried really hard to work it out because that's what Kris does. 

Um, and then they said to us one day, either you buy us out or we're buying you out.

We had no idea how we were going to buy him out. We didn't have any financial back or any clue how we were going to make it work. 

 but luckily Dana was like, well, I'll just buy it. 

Dana: It wasn't that simple. 

Beth: Well, no, but it was like, the idea was there.

Kevin: I'll take it!

Dana: She told me what was happening and I was like, [00:19:00] that's bullshit. That's not cool. I thought, well, this is supposed to be like a family farm and, you know, it's supposed to be for Jake. it was supposed to be for him and his future.

And I was having fun on Saturdays doing it. And I knew how important it was to Beth and to Kris, who I had I started to like the other woman. So I was fortunate enough to be able to have access to money that allowed me to do it. Because I'm just a single person. I don't have anything going on. I'm lazy. I don't have, I don't have like a life. Of any sort. So I thought, well, it would be, this could be really great. Yeah. Because I know that Beth and I have the same philosophy about pretty much everything and I know that Kris is a good person and I really [00:20:00] like him now and I just thought of the potential of what we could make it. All of us working together and I thought it could be a really great thing and really worth it. Putting the money into and the time into 

Beth: and it was because our profits went up 200 percent 

Kevin: Really 

Beth: bought in like it just took off 

Kevin: So did this mean that you now were working more than just Saturdays? How did it change your kind of day to day life?

Dana: I kind of still just do the Saturday only because I have the full time job right on the weekdays, 
When it's time for like shipping I'll come After work, I'll help box up and 

Beth: she also does all our design. 

Dana: Yeah, 

Beth: which is incredible. Yeah. I mean, she's so talented 

you know the the logo is It's so timeless 

Dana: I wanted it to have sort of a vintage kind of feel to it. I'm not a designer Yeah, you buy any stretch of the imagination 

Beth: She is [00:21:00] she's very a very talented artist, but I it just like it happened 

Kevin: So, was it a 50 percent share? 

Beth: You went in at 51. Yeah. So we could be a woman owned majority.

Kevin: I didn't realize that you were a woman owned majority. I'm the president. She's the president. You're the president. I'm madam president. Madam president. 

 I have no business being the president of anything except the Noel Fielding fan club. Right. Of which I am. 

I'm never going to be able to watch the Great British Bake Off again. 

So okay, so as president, what are the roles between you? Well, 

Dana: our roles are, we all have something that we're really good at and we sort of stick to that. but we. just all work together as one unit. We're not, we don't, make decisions without each other. We have to agree on everything.

Kevin: Have you ever had a situation where you haven't agreed on something? 

Beth: Yes. 

Dana: Yeah. 

Kevin: How have you dealt with that? 

Dana: We just punch [00:22:00] Kris in the face and do it anyway. 

Beth: Yeah, we drug him and then do it with Watt. No, it's just like 

Kevin: I see what's happening here. Kris has really very little to do with this whole operation.

Beth: He's eye 

candy. 

Dana: He drives the boat. 

Beth: It's not easy, because I'm a big feeler, so when I feel something is right or wrong, I really, like I obsess over it. And I feel like I, Have fairly good judgment. 

Dana: She has a really good judgement. 

Beth: I get really mad. 

Dana: She has really good instincts. 

Beth: Thank you 

Dana: Yeah, 

Beth: so I get really frustrated when we can't just do what I want and I have to wait 

Dana: but for the most part It's just a nice mix of everybody kind of throw in their ideas in the ring and and 

Beth: Everybody gets to try something, even if it sounds crazy. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but you're never going to grow if you don't try new things. But you know, obviously Dana does the design work and I do all the sales and the marketing and the branding and, you know, Jake [00:23:00] is not so comfortable with the in person, so he does. A lot of, you know, the physical work and Kris's does a lot of the business and, 

I think we all feel useful, and it's nice to be able to do what you feel is natural and work where your strengths lie. 

Dana: I feel most useful when I'm just doing what Kris wants me to do. Just like run the tumbler, count, you know, bag the oysters. And I can just spend all day just doing that.

Kevin: And you learned how to do these things just from working with them 

Dana: Yeah, 

Beth: He's a great teacher.

Dana: Yeah, he's so patient. 

Beth: Even if you mess up. He's like, it's okay. 

Dana: I don't mess up anything 

Kevin: I wouldn't think so. 

Dana: No, 

Beth: No comment

Kevin: So on these rarefied moments of disagreement Have you Dana ever had to just put your foot down and say I'm I'm the president. 

Dana: I would never do [00:24:00] that. No, we're all equal part.

Beth: None of us can do it without the other. So we have no choice but to, to work it out. 

Kevin: Now, do you have a title? 

Beth: I think I'm Sales and Marketing. I'm head like blabbermouth. 

Dana: You're also on the board. 

Beth: Am I on the board? 

Dana: Yeah. 

Beth: Okay. I'm on the board. 

Kevin: how big is your board? 

Beth: Me, Kris, and Dana. Extensive. Yeah. I didn't even know I was on it until about 45 seconds ago, so. 

Kevin: Congratulations on your, appointment. And, and so does Kris have a title or he's just the ...

Beth: He's vice president.

Dana: He's vice president.

Beth: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dana: Head steamroller. 

Kevin: So do you have like business cards with this? Yeah, 

Beth: some brochures and stickers and t shirts and custom knives and hats 

 and it goes fast. 

Dana: Yeah 

Beth: faster than we can 

Dana: it's Costly, which is why we're which is not something people might think about but 

Beth: it costs money to get your brand out 

Dana: They just have to taste the oyster. 

Beth: Right, like just bring them in a little bit. That's it. [00:25:00] That's all it takes. 

It's all about sharing. 

Kevin: So you say they just have to taste the oyster. So tell me what you think about the oysters and don't say, Oh, they're the best. 

Beth: I already said that. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Beth: And got in trouble.

Dana: You did?

Beth: Kris did his usual. "Well, there's a lot of good products out there." I'm going to shut up. 

Kevin: I defended you behind his back on that part.

Beth: You did. I really appreciate that, Kevin.

Dana: Yeah. So, 

Beth: yeah. 

Dana: Well, like I said, I, I never ate an oyster until I became official and a partner in this company. 

Kevin: So, wait a minute, you're helping out on Saturdays.

Dana: Yep. 

Kevin: you never ate an oyster?

Dana: Never.

Kevin: Not a single oyster?

Dana: Ever. 

Kevin: Why is that? 

Beth: I didn't eat oysters until she ate oysters. 

Kevin: What? 

Dana: I, they look gross. They're rocks. 

Beth: They're beautiful.

Dana: The outside of an oyster is gorgeous. Yeah, 

Beth: Yeah. I could play with them all day long. 

Dana: Well, it can be, I think, some people might find them unappealing in appearance. Off putting. 

Beth: Off putting.

Dana: Disturbing. 

Beth: Yeah. Revolting. 

Dana: Disgusting. 

Beth: Offensive.  [00:26:00] . 

Kevin: But You guys certainly don't think that. 

Dana: No. No. No. No. 

Beth: No. No. No. No. But like, they're, they're like lunatics. 

Dana: And now I can look at it and say, Oh, that's a really nice looking oyster. That's really beautiful. 

Beth: Right. 

Dana: It's a good one. Right, when it's shucked well and you get to see those gills and the mantle. And the creamy...

Beth: Yeah, yeah, that like perfect. Curly skin and the flesh. And yeah, they're beautiful. 

Kevin: Have you learned the anatomy of an oyster? Have you ever looked at that? It's very, 

Dana: uh, yeah, 

Beth: it makes her not want to eat them. I did a slide show for an event and I was like, that's the anus Dana. And she's like, all right, I'm never eating another  oyster. Yep. I went over the anatomy of oysters with some of the high school kids that came out for the field trip and they were like, I really don't want to eat one now that you told me that. Cause I shucked a big one so they could really poke around in there and, and uh. 

Kevin: But you know, there's poems written about [00:27:00] this. 

Beth: Oh yeah. They're all kinds of sexy. 

Kevin: Yeah, because they're shiny, they're beautiful, they're just pristine, and you know.

Dana: Like us. Yeah. Shiny and beautiful and pristine. Yeah, 

Kevin: But you did say you like to get muddy. 

Dana: Yeah. We do. 

Kevin: Why do you guys like to get muddy? 

Beth: It's fun. 

Dana: It's just fun. 

Beth: It's fun. And it, I, like, I, I love to be clean. But I love to be dirty. Is it that, and we're filthy in the summer. Like we, um, in the summer we get tan around our mud splatters.

Dana: Yeah. The mud is like a, a sunscreen. Yeah. 

Kevin: And it's, it's like thick black mud, right? Yep. So does it stain your skin and any clothing that it does? 

Dana: No, I, you don't get stains. Well, no, 

Beth: So I swim after oystering and then I go upstairs and take a shower and I scrub with a loofah and when I get out and I use the towel, there's still mud on the towel.

Dana: I don't think she's telling the truth. I think she's being [00:28:00] dramatic because I don't have that. 

Kevin: Is she a drama queen? 

Beth: Maybe I just work harder. 

Dana: Yeah. That's it. 

Kevin: But you've got this blonde hair though. I mean, you get that mud in that hair. You can see that from a mile away, right? 

Beth: Street cred. 

Dana: Yeah, 

Kevin: it is street crit, isn't it?

Dana: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, 

Kevin: You want to be muddy You want any passers-by to say "that's an oyster farmer!"

Beth: It gets in the grooves of your fingernails like around your cuticle and it doesn't come out 

Dana: Yeah, 

Beth: that's like I won't use shiny new tools at work 

Kevin: Looks like you're an amateur or something.

Beth: Yeah, like why don't you just give me a pink hammer. Like, I want to use the nastiest, gnarliest, fucked up hammer. 

Kevin: Maybe with some bloodstains on them. 

Beth: Oh yeah, there's blood on everything. Yeah, because I'm always injuring myself. Yeah, there's blood everywhere. Don't bring your Luminol. This is gonna, it's gonna tell a story, but yeah, like, uh, we're not, the whole, like, cute girl doesn't appeal to us, like, oh, I'm wearing my Carhart... 

Dana: But we're not going into the not like other girls territory here.[00:29:00] 

Beth: We're not? 

Dana: Cause, I don't know. 

Kevin: I've met some remarkable women who are growing oysters. 

Beth: It's killer. 

Dana: Yeah. 

Beth: And they're fine. 

Kevin: So I think it's a New England company that makes sweaters out of oysters.

Beth: And if I bought clothes, I would probably be into it, but I don't buy clothes. 

Kevin: Cause you're just going to get that mud all over the room. 

Beth: Cause I'd get ruined anyway. 

Kevin: Other than the waders or overalls, the Grundens, is there particular clothing that you prefer to wear when you're working on the farm?

Beth: I like just my bathing suit under my bibs in the summer.  But winter is tough because I haven't found anything that keeps me warm and offers the dexterity that I need. 

Dana: And dry. 

Beth: And dry. 

Dana: Everything that's waterproof is waterproof for like 10 minutes. And then you get a tiny cut in it from a shell, and then it's 

Kevin: And that's the end of it.

Beth: Yeah, so we've tried ice fishing gloves, we've tried gloves for people that work in, [00:30:00] um, like industrial freezers. I can't undo any knots, I can't tie any lines, um, I can't pick up one oyster at a time. And, uh, the only way to be able to do that is to be cold, so I, between dredges, I go under the table and I just wrap my hands around the muffler to stay warm.

My bibs are all melted because I stand so close to the muffler in the winter that it just, they drip. 

Kevin: Dana, do you go out on the boat and run the dredge and that sort of thing? 

Dana: I get boat time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would like more boat time than I get. 

Kevin: What's your favorite aspect of oyster farming? What activity do you most enjoy?

Dana: I think I like when we drag. Mm hmm. And then we go through what comes up in the dredge and picking out the live oysters from the mud and the rocks and the Scallops and the whatevers that are in there, sorting them. You just sort of go into a zone and it's, you're out in the [00:31:00] sun or maybe not the sun.

Beth: Beautiful boat traffic. And so you live sort and then, you know, we sort everything like crazy people. So it's like seed, you know, almost a Mason, Mason, almost a Stonington, Stonington, almost a Murphy, a Murphy. We have prom queens that we send down to Fairhaven, which are the size of Murphy's, but pretty, and then jumbos after that, but then there's, you know, it's shape, it's size, it's weight, it's, it's how attractive is the shell.

I mean, it's just over the top. We have to be conscious of dialing it back once in a while, because it's hard to maintain the standard fussy. Yeah. I mean, I can just stare at an oyster for 20 minutes and think of why it's not perfect. 

Kevin: So you guys are perfectionists. 

Beth: Yeah, I actually learned on a podcast about perfectionism recently and learned how much of a psychopath I am from it. So yeah. 

Dana: That's another thing that [00:32:00] I would never have expected that I really like about it is when we do like public things like a raw bar or we'll do a teaching opportunity and shucking classes and you meet people and I'm not a people person. I really like meeting all these new people. 

Kevin: So why do you think you enjoy that so much if you're not naturally an extrovert?

Dana: Maybe I just. I just never knew that I liked it until I started doing this. 

Beth: And you have something they want and something they like. 

Dana: It brought me out of my shell. 

Beth: Pun intended. 

Kevin: Figuratively and literally. So are you a good shucker? 

Dana: Yeah, I think I am. 

Kevin: Yeah? Do you, have you ever like tested yourself how fast you?

Dana: Oh no. I thought you were going to say, have you ever stabbed yourself? Yes. 

Kevin: Yeah, have you ever stabbed yourself? 

Dana: I have. I have. We were doing SailFest. SailFest in New London, a big outdoor fest, and I was shucking and then all of a sudden [00:33:00] 

Beth: I was bleeding, 

Dana: I was bleeding ,

Beth: I did a bad one. 

Kevin: Tell me. 

Beth: At, uh, we send oysters down to Fairhaven Oyster Company in New Haven, which is, uh, It's a fantastic restaurant and we were supposed to shuck for her and then stay for dinner, but she was really busy. So we had dinner and then shucks, This Australian woman next to us said something like don't cut yourself and I said well All right, you just ruined it. I'm gonna cut myself now and sure as shit the first oyster I went into my knuckle 

Kevin: Oh 

Beth: like in the knuckle So I just spent the rest of the night with my hand in a dinner napkin over my head 

Kevin: So, did Chef ever get any oysters?

Beth: h yeah, she loves them. 

Kevin: So I imagine that finding new restaurants and that sort of thing, you're meeting a lot of people. Interesting people. 

Beth: That's the best. 

Kevin: Yeah, 

Beth: that's absolutely one of your favorite parts of it. Yep. Yep. 

Kevin: How do you do it? Do you just knock on a door and say "hey have an oyster or..." 

Beth: I just introduce [00:34:00] myself and ask if they would be interested or sometimes we um, We'll just take a bag to a restaurant and say hey you want to try these and we'll leave a card in a in a brochure and um, We haven't been able to do a lot of that because we're sold out. I mean every oyster on the bottom is sold You So, if one place doesn't take it, another will.

Kevin: So that sounds like a great thing, but it also sounds a little risky. What if you have a die off of a certain person or geography? And how do you deal with that in terms of your customers? And when there's a mortality loss like that, 

Beth: Everybody's got to take a little bit of a hit. 

Kevin: Really? You kind of spread the loss.

Beth: Um, but it's a balance to get new customers and keep the old ones satisfied.

Cause I don't want to promise something we can't give and the quality certainly can't change. 

Kevin: So what areas are your main markets? 

Beth: Mystic and then, um, Boston is our [00:35:00] wholesaler. So that's probably 85, 90 percent of our product goes up to mass. And then from there, it goes all through New England. We had the opportunity to go into a restaurant chain in New York and I had set up a time to bring our oysters down in the next day, our Boston wholesaler called and said, triple everything.

So I had to call and say, I can't right now. 

Dana: Yeah. We just need more oysters, 

Beth: More oysters, more time to produce and another boat. 

Dana: Yeah, 

Beth: I mean no big deal, right? 

Kevin: Dana, I'm interested in understanding how what you do is different than what Kris and Beth are doing because you kind of came to the party late, you know, after they were involved in it, but you are an equal owner and partner of the whole thing.

Beth: Yeah. 

Kevin: You're also working full time. So do you ever feel left out? 

Dana: Yeah. Yeah. All the time. I miss out on a lot of things that I would [00:36:00] like to be able to. 

Kevin: What would you be more involved in? 

Dana: Well, I missed meeting you the first time you came. I miss when Noah comes, and I missed Julie Chu.

Kevin: Right. 

Beth: Well, everything is like on a Tuesday at 10:30. 

Dana: Everything happens on a weekday. 

Kevin: I can understand, though, that you would feel left out when a lot of the activities that you're interested in are going on. 

Dana: I miss the field trips. I haven't done any of that. 

Beth: I always feel guilty. I feel like, um It's my job to be out there and like meeting everybody and making contacts and everything.

But then I feel like, um, they forget about everybody else. I don't feel like I'm so great that people meet me and then they forget everybody else in the world exists. That's not how I mean that to come out. But I feel like I become the point person for everybody and then. It's sort of, you know, when there's something written up about us, it's very quickly turned into Beth Simond's Stonington Farm Shellfish, [00:37:00] even though everybody else was there.

So it's, I do get uncomfortable with that. I mean, I'm a total attention whore, but I don't need all the attention all the time. I want everybody to be in on it if that's what they want. And I do feel bad that I kind of, um, Steal that. 

Kevin: You guys have this incredible deep bond and now you've been able to Intensify that even more by being business partners in this operation, but at the same time it creates guilt or tension 

Beth: Oh, yes, there's a whole new dynamic. I mean, you know when the farm is suffering I'm like, oh my god, what the fuck did I bring my best friend into like what did I do to her? You know, like right now the boat's out of the water and we just found another leak this morning 

So it's like what did I get this girl into and I just I hope that it works out for us But then I I feel responsible if it doesn't work out for Dana Like I don't I don't want this to ever be a negative for Dana.

So I feel yeah I feel [00:38:00] responsible for bringing her in on this. Like I, I, I never want her to feel like she made a bad investment. 

Kevin: Do you ever feel that way? 

Dana: No. 

Kevin: Do you ever feel like, oh my God, what did she get me? 

Dana: I do. 

Beth: She does say that. 

Dana: I, I do say what, oh my God, what have I done? But I never feel like I made a bad investment.

Beth: There's just so much there. So much. We need so, yeah, we need so little to get over that hump. 

Kevin: Dana, what would you. do to get over that hump and expand it?, 

Dana: uh, I think we need what everybody needs, which is money and time. 

Beth: If we could afford to pay ourselves on the farm, we could back off on our other business.But right now, some of the times the other business pays for the farm. 

Dana: But who doesn't want more money and time? Sure. We're not unique. Right. In that way. I mean, everybody wants it, but. 

Kevin: Have you ever thought about adding additional business partners and getting some influx of money in that way?

Beth: Are we still a [00:39:00] family farm? So if it was something where we could have investors that were silent, it would be different. I wouldn't want somebody to come in and say, stop handling the oyster so much, or do that faster, um, because it's going to change the quality of the product. We could make more money, but our oysters would suffer. And that's not what we're here for. So if you want a shittier product, then yeah, I can, I'll have more money, but that's not, I need to be proud of every single oyster that gets sold or it's not worth doing.

Kevin: So Dana, if you had to isolate a moment in time in your oyster work that you're especially proud of, or that is especially meaningful to you. What would that be? 

Dana: When we were invited to the billion oyster project, that was like such a huge thing and, and actually going and setting up and seeing all the other farms from all over the country and meeting the other farmers [00:40:00] and.

And then all the people that show up to eat the oysters and meeting them and seeing how they react to our product. And it's, everybody is so positive about it and it's so good and these are really great. And it makes you feel like you've, you're like, you're doing it right. Like you've done something right.

And I feel like everybody who tries our oysters has that reaction, which is, It's gratifying. 

We shucked the whole night. It was so fun. And meeting all the other farmers. And seeing what their oysters were like and talking to them about how they do things.

Beth: I think it was the first time we had ever set up, uh, like a raw bar table. We had never even set up a table before. Really? And that's where we started. 

Kevin: That's a hell of a start.

Dana: Yeah. 

Beth: So it was, it was really cool. It was really fun. 

Kevin: What about, I don't know if I [00:41:00] would call them moments of regret, or failure, Is there something that stands out in your mind, like? 

Dana: You know that we had that freeze? That sticks in my mind as a big mistake that happened. 

Beth: We didn't anticipate how low the tide was going to drop. And then we had those oysters just out of the water freezing. 

Kevin: I can't imagine what it must have been like to stand there and to look out on the water, see the oysters sticking out.

Beth: There they are. They're all dead now. 

Dana: Yeah, when it's something that, like, you can do about it. It's different from if it's mother nature, right? 

Kevin: Do you ever feel kind of guilty like killing my babies? 

Dana: Yes, 

Beth: yes. Yep. I have a hard time with it. Like I do apologize a little bit. 

Dana: Yeah. 

Kevin: You're running this oyster farm with amazing oysters. You're working together. I think you guys are onto something here. 

Dana: Oh yeah. You just need some, I hope some dough before we go under.

Beth: Literally and figuratively. Have you seen the boat in the driveway? [00:42:00] 

Kevin: I did see the boat. 

Beth: You see all the holes in that boat? 

Kevin: Yeah. I did see the holes. Yeah. I looked in my truck to see if I had some chewing gum. 

Dana: Some chewing gum. 

Beth: Yeah, it might work. All I know is when we opened her up in 2020, she was like Swiss cheese.

Kevin: I do remember when we went out on the boat. that you made me put on boots And you did say that. Be warned. It is a very wet boat. 

Beth: Oh yeah. Water and water out through the scuppers. But right now it's water in. Water in. The water comes in, it goes out the scuppers. 

Dana: And then you put a whole bunch of bags of oysters in the boat.

Beth: And then us. 

Kevin: And then us. And then you have that derrick and you have a big stainless steel table in there. 

Dana: And then you pull up to the dock in the summer with these jackasses going way too fast. 

Beth: Right. Gawking at you. Watching you slam into the dock. 

Dana: As you slam into the dock and, I love it when they wave at us while they do that.

Beth: Like oh, look at its fishermen. 

Kevin: Girls on the water. 

Beth: Yep. Girls gone wild. Whoo!

Kevin: [00:43:00] Well, I can't thank you both enough for this time and for really just giving me a little tiny peek at this amazing relationship, which is clearly a lifelong thing. And it's not just friendship, it's business, it's life, it's family, it's everything.

Dana: It's definitely family. Yeah. 

Beth: Yeah. She's my sister. Don't we look alike? 

Kevin: Well, you know, two arms, two legs...

Dana: That's about it. That's where it ends. 

Kevin: Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I can't promise that I won't edit some of the naughty stuff. 

Dana: Yeah. You really have to not edit most of what she said.

Kevin: No, I don't think I will. All right. Thanks again. 

Well, that's it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks to my guests, Dana Hines and Beth Simonds, who I think revealed as much about friendship as they did about oyster farming. As always, show notes can be found on this episode's page. And if you enjoyed this, please rate or review it on whatever podcast platform you listen to.

I'm [00:44:00] your host, Kevin Cox. Join us next time when we pry open the shell of another interesting oysterology topic. 

Dana: Unique. Now I can't say it. Unique New York. 

Kevin: It's 

Beth: what like actors do to get their instrument. We're tuning our instruments. Bubbles.