Episode 14: From Tech Sales to Oyster Trails - Henry Dubin's Career Leap to Cape Oyster Experiences

From Tech Sales to Oyster Trails: Henry Dubin's Career Leap to Cape Oyster Experiences.

In this episode of OYSTER-ology, Kevin sits down with Henry Dubin, founder of Cape Oyster Experiences, to discuss his inspiring journey from a successful career in tech sales to starting an oyster tourism business on Cape Cod. Henry elaborates on his passion for oysters and shellfishing, his life's major transition during the pandemic, and the creation of unique oyster tours and tastings. He shares insights into the challenges and rewards of this dramatic change, including the entrepreneurial obstacles faced and the fulfillment found in sharing his love for oysters with others. Henry envisions Cape Cod becoming a premier oyster destination akin to Napa Valley's wine tourism, aiming to connect people with local oyster farms in a sustainable and engaging way. The episode is a captivating dive into the intersection of passion, nature, and business innovation.

00:00 Introduction to OYSTER-ology

00:21 Meet Henry: From Tech Sales to Oyster Entrepreneur

01:23 The Birth of Cape Oyster Experiences

04:40 Challenges and Rewards of Oyster Farming

08:06 Oyster Tours and Experiences

27:31 Future Visions: The Napa of Oysters

29:59 Seasonal Operations and Unique Offerings

32:13 Overcoming Challenges and Looking Ahead

35:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links:

Website: Cape Oyster Experiences (https://CapeoysterExperiences.com/)

Instagram Site: @capeoysterexperiences

Henry's direct email:  henry@capeoysterexperiences.com

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

Transcript:  

From Tech Sales to Oyster Trails: Henry Dubin's Career Leap to Cape Oyster Experiences

[Bubbles]

Henry: As I, kind of said more than once to friends and acquaintances, it's a lot more enjoyable to be spending time out in nature hunting oysters and sharing that with others. But, uh, The, uh, the revenue is slightly lower than, uh, fortune 500, software sales. But it's a lot more fun.

[Bubbles]

Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about the wide world of oysters, aquaculture and everything from spat to shuck. I’m your host, Kevin Cox. My guest today is Henry Dubin, former tech sales executive and the founder of Cape Oyster Experiences, an interactive, hands on oyster hunting and tasting operation located on beautiful Cape Cod. Henry is one of those people who, after reaching a level of success in his career, realized that it simply did not satisfy that inner entrepreneur yearning to get out and do something in nature that means more than making big companies money. For Henry, the answer was oysters and the Cape – two things that he holds dear. He did this by creating Cape Oyster Experiences, offering customized activities like oyster hunting and in-home private events.  In our conversation Henry discusses the birth and evolution of his business and the challenges of transitioning from corporate life to oyster life. He explains his vision to create an oyster tourism experience on the East Coast with unique tasting destinations akin to Napa and Sonoma Valley's winery tours. And he emphasizes the importance of not just about bringing oysters to people, but also people to oysters. 

So get out your mud gear, clam rake and shucking knife to learn about running toward your dream rather than away from stagnation; clamming versus oystering; the wrong way to enter a muddy beach; Zen and the art of wild oyster hunting; comparing varieties of oysters to varieties of wine; THE perfect mignonettes; and that moment of pride and joy over your first self-shucked oyster, with my guest, Henry Dubin.

[Bubbles]

Kevin: Hey Henry, thank you so much for being my guest on Oysterology today. It's fantastic to have you here and I am so excited to hear about what you're doing with Cape Oyster Experiences. But first, this is kind of a new chapter in your life, I understand. So not only are you starting this cool business, but you're making a big life change. So tell me what Cape Oyster Experiences is, and then I want to hear a little bit about your background, how you got here.

Henry: Thanks, Kevin. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me and thanks so much for kind of what you're doing at the forefront of sharing the passion for all things oysters and shellfish and beyond.

It's an exciting time and one that I'm happy to be and thrilled to be kind of devoting my full time resources and experience and time to now moving forward. So super excited. And I think it's nothing but good things to come. And I, you know, I've been very fortunate that I've spent most of my career in a variety of different cities.

Grew up in Atlanta, was in San Francisco in the Bay Area for a while, and then settled down here in Boston and the Cape more recently. But my varieties of experience and passions kind of led me to, more recently, building out Cape Oyster Experiences, and more super recently, just in the last three to four months, going full time with kind of seeing what I can do if I put the proper effort and energy and resources into seeing what it can become.

It's really been a labor of love and a passion project for the last couple years and kind of inspired by my Experiences and my desire to spend my time working on something that I really believe in and I'm passionate about and quite frankly Enjoy doing and want to share with others. So I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia. Far from the mecca of of many oysters, but my aunt and uncle Had a small cabin, um, On Cape Cod, and I would visit there a lot of summers, always there for typically 4th of July. So I was familiar with Cape Cod and the natural beauty of it and how famous Wellfleet in particular was for their oysters. Um, I grew up eating a fair amount of oysters, but it was really until, you know, through my teenage years.

And then once we ended up back in this, this neck of the woods with my wife and now young kids that really got into oysters and aquaculture more. So, um, spent most of my professional career in tech sales in San Francisco. And then here in Boston, where I led sales and managed teams for variety of things, which was a great experience, gave me a wonderful life and a ton of opportunities.

Not super aligned with my passions and things I found fulfillment from. So I have the, you know, the fortune to kind of take a step back and see how I wanted to really spend the next chapter of my life. And I, I knew I would regret it if I didn't kind of flex that entrepreneurial muscle and see what I could build.

I didn't know exactly what that looked like, but, led us to kind of early days of the pandemic, the timing was crazy in the world, but I had one young kid, a second kid on the way and kind of had that existential moment that I know a lot of us have felt in one way or another and had also recently, purchased a home on the Cape.

And that kind of was a lifelong dream that was able to realize, um, you know, at that point in my life and started, you know, as the whole world's kind of turned upside down, working remotely, got my recreational shellfishing permit for the first time and started hunting for wild oysters and clams, picking up tips from oyster farmers and the shellfish constable on the Cape and asking, Hey, where do I go?

And from the first time I stepped foot out in the water and started hunting wild oysters on my own, it was a complete moment of Zen of this is, therapy and relaxation and escape from the world that was so special for me. And I was like, you know what? I think other people would probably really enjoy this too. And that was kind of the inspiration for Cape Oyster Experiences. 

Kevin: Well, it's so great that you're able to do that. I can only imagine During those quiet, dark moments in the middle of the night where you're just absolutely horrified with the decision you've made,

Henry: Absolutely. As I said more than once to friends and acquaintances, it's a lot more enjoyable to be spending time out in nature hunting oysters and sharing that with others. But, the revenue is slightly lower than, uh, fortune 500, software sales, but it's a lot more fun.

Kevin: Did you find it difficult to slow down when you transitioned from the corporate world to the oyster world?

Henry: The hardest part for me was. Reclaiming my identity from Henry, the software sales executive to Henry, what is the next chapter of my life look like? And there was an awkward period of there that didn't last that long. But my biggest takeaway and advice they would give anyone who has the luxury to make a pretty drastic change like that is to make sure that you are, um, running to something, not away from something. There are plenty of frustrations of day to day life and those frustrations don't go away if you no longer have the same nine to five pressures, they just change.

So whether it's financial considerations or personal fulfillment or family or how you're spending your time is to make sure that you are running to something. And I certainly had those apprehensions and challenges and I still have times where I face that or it's the the grass is always greener syndrome of saying oh man it'd be nice to have the stability and the income of the corporate life but I wouldn't change a thing I just am constantly searching for making sure that I am making progress in some way. And that means big or small, trying to do something every day that kind of moves the needle in the direction I want to end up in, even if I don't know exactly what that end goal looks like yet.

Kevin: So you started this during the pandemic when the whole world was upside down and had a child at the time. 

Henry: Yeah. 

Kevin: How did that work out for you in terms of such a dramatic change during such a weird time in the world?

Henry: Yeah. It's hard to know if it was the personal life changes or the whole world changing simultaneously. But I am very fortunate that my wife has been a huge supporter of whatever I want to do and pursue. And that comes in a number of forms from helping out with kids, which we now have two boys and, also her professional life. She's still on the corporate track and doing something that she cares about, and that gives a level of stability to our family that I wouldn't be able to pursue this without.

So between that and full time daycare and preschool for the kids, I'm able to direct the energy toward this. And so I left, full time corporate life in 2021. But for the last two plus years, I was consulting and doing a variety of things, kind of still keeping a toe in that world, keeping some income coming in while pursuing Cape Oyster Experiences as a passion project that I was kind of feeling out.

I know something's there. I knew something was there. I knew it was an idea that was getting validated, but it wasn't something that I was prepared to rip off the bandaid, even though I knew that. It could be more if I gave it its proper effort. And that's what I finally this year have done.

So 2020 was kind of that light bulb moment of inspiration. 2022 in the spring is when I created a small kind of passion project business out of it. and then 2024 is when I ripped that bandaid off and said, okay, let's take this to the next level and see what it looks like.

And there have been several pivots along the way, and there will continue to be pivots as far as what the business looks like. I'm just trying to open myself up to being able to meet as many interesting people as possible, build relationships, and stay true to myself and what I care about, and seeing what comes next.

Kevin: So I have to ask you a very basic question. Why oysters?

Henry: A couple reasons. I genuinely just love oysters I think there's something so special about them I know in conversations with some of your other guests things that really resonate with me is there is something that feels almost special and sexy and naughty about, you know, it's, it's a, it's a raw living organism and the fact that it is so in touch with nature.

So something that is not only delicious, but good for you, good for the environment around it. It is a net positive. There's very little that you can detract from the entire experience of the oyster, not just enjoying it, but the life cycle and the more that I've learned about that, the more that that has resonated.

Um, and the fact that, you know, when you're out there, whether it's on an oyster farm or, or hunting for wild oysters, or sitting outside and eating oysters with your friends and family or sharing them with others. I've never had a bad time. and it's one of those things where it's just like, there's more here.

And then the lightbulb moment was a combination of having that experience where there wasn't a good way to share that experience. Pure oyster experience with other people, especially on Cape Cod, which even it is such an it is one of the oyster Meccas and as it has a great brand and recognition, but there isn't really a oyster destination or way to experience them beyond the raw bars and the restaurants that people go to.

There's a handful of farmers who offer kind of boat tours and farm tours and they do a great job. But having spent so much formative period of my life and career living in San Francisco and spending a lot of time in Napa and Sonoma, while I would be the first to admit that I don't have a refined palate to pick out exactly what my favorite is, what I did fall in love with is the experiential aspect of visiting a handful of wineries with your friends and family.

And that was the parallel that was the real vision for Cape Oyster Experiences that has not been realized yet. But that that remains the North Star vision of making Cape the Napa or Sonoma of oysters. Maybe maybe Maine’s the Napa and the Cape’s the Sonoma or vice versa.

But there are hundreds of wineries across Napa, right? And right now, saying an East Coast oyster, in my mind, is the equivalent of saying, I'll have the red wine, right? And then within that, maybe you think you're being really specific and you'll say, I'll have the Wellfleet oyster.

Saying the Wellfleet oyster is like, I'll have the Napa red, right? And then within Napa, there's hundreds of different oysters, wineries who each one will tell you the dozens of reasons why because of their processes and the way that they care for their grapes and the way that they, um, make their wine makes their wine unique.

It is very much the same with the dozens and hundreds of different oyster farmers across the Cape. Even within Wellfleet, I think there's a hundred twenty five oyster farmers. Each one will tell you why their oysters are unique, and that is to the level of, so, there's so many parallels between visiting a winery and wine farms.

Now, of course, the infrastructure isn't there to visit a wine, uh, uh, oyster farm, but my ultimate vision was if there was a way to kind of connect people with these oyster farmers and have a way that whether it's a farm visit or a tasting room or some way that people could hop around to a handful of different oyster farms across the Cape, And experience oysters and taste different oysters in the same way they would visit three or four wineries in a day in Napa or Sonoma.

So that was kind of the light bulb moment and now it has all just been kind of working backwards from there as far as figuring out the myriad reasons why that is an uphill battle and a challenge. And also figuring out some intermediate steps that allow people to kind of have some unique oyster experience in the way.

And that's kind of where the business is today, having pop ups and shucking workshops and private events. So really kind of leaning on that, um, taking an oyster party to you in an experiential way. So there's plenty of people who will do, you know, a catered raw bar at a wedding and that's fantastic and that's not the market that I'm trying to cater to No pun intended.

I really want to have interactive. I love talking to people I love kind of teaching people how to shuck and kind of share that magic of fresh oysters that I get to enjoy

Kevin: Tell me a little about your structure. because it sounds as if you do a number of different things from personal or private events to larger group events or even corporate events.

Henry: Yeah. So all of the above, there's a number of different kind of core offerings. It started out giving small group and private tours where I learned to go recreational shellfishing and oyster hunting and clamming. So I would just, I was just connecting with, with people who were interested.

And I, again, I spun up the website and Instagram account and took my friends and family out there and took a couple pictures and threw them online and said, Hey, I know how much the feedback from personally from my friends and family. I think other people would be into this too. And without any concerted effort.

People were finding me on Instagram and online and I was getting people reaching out saying I could do this and at this point it was very much a part time kind of side hustle but one that just every time I did it I enjoyed it so much the feedback was so positive that every and I you know I bought a bunch of different pairs of waders, I bought water shoes for people, I bought rakes and I kind of had all the gear threw it in my truck and would meet people out there and it was kind of just a rogue kind of mission.

And I was making sure that I was doing in a way that was respectful of the environment that I was in and respectful of the community and making sure that it was a net positive for everyone, but there's no infrastructure for this, right? That's not, it's, is it a catering business? No. But is it a tour business? Kind of. It's this experiential kind of thing. Oyster business, right? So it was kind of creating this new niche that didn't exist. And there's a, there's a handful of folks who are doing a great job with similar ideas. And a lot of them have done some really awesome stuff in, in Maine and elsewhere that I, that I've seen and kind of in parallel that once I got underway and started building this out, I've come across what they're doing and, So it's that, and then it's, So people, you know, a lot of people rent a house on the Cape for a week in the summer. And they were reaching out saying, Hey, can you bring the Oyster experience to the house that we've rented?

Great, so I've done a handful of, of, um, family events and bachelorette parties and things like that, but really focusing on kind of small, intimate events, under 20 people, because I, I really want it to be just me and maybe, my wife, if I can drag her along to, to help me out. But part of what appeals to me about this business and what I'm doing versus my previous life is, um, not managing people.

 I want to be in the business doing the work, enjoying what I'm doing and not spending the time behind a computer screen managing people because quite frankly, if I If I wanted to manage people, I'd still be in tech sales making way more money and, and yes, it might be more enjoyable to manage people in oyster business, but managing people's managing people. And for now, at least I want to kind of steer away from it.

Kevin: Do you have any partners in your company right now?

Henry: We've made some great, we've built some great relationships with people that we, that we work with, um, on, on, on different things, but it is 100%, 100 percent me with the, the support of my, of my family, giving me the, the breathing room to, to devote to it.

Kevin: Do you find that people prefer you to come and shuck and serve them oysters, or that people are more interested in seeing real life oyster operations and actually getting in the water and in the mud.

Henry: I think it's a different audience. I think people for both, I've had people do one and then the other. So the same guests come out for a tour on the water and then they've brought me back a month or two later or the following summer for an event at their house.

Um, I think it is more unique and special, the kind of on the water tour. To be completely frank, it is special. More of a challenge for a couple reasons. One of the main ones being that, um, like I mentioned before, there's not the infrastructure to support that type of business. So it is operating in a little bit of a gray area as far as, hey, we're not taking any oysters from these oyster beds.

It's kind of a catch and release tour. I mean, these are oysters that you're allowed to take as long as it's in season, as long as it's, below the allotted limit for the week. But I want to make sure that I'm not like running a large tourism business in a place that's not built for it. So it's a little bit of a gray area and I'm just trying to be respectful of that and navigate that. But. I've built some relationships with the, the Wellfleet Oyster Alliance and Mass Oyster Project for oyster recycling and and a lot of people that I've talked to have been super, um, positive with their feedback saying, Hey, this is great. This is a great idea. You got to stay on it. 

Um, but there's also just so many people that just are hard to get in touch with. A lot of these oyster farmers are oyster farmers. They are out there living and working by the tides and they are not in the business of kind of building a tourism aspect. So my kind of pitch if you will is like I want to be that middleman bringing people to them and kind of figuring out what that looks like. Now granted. you do need a boat or needs to be super low tide to access their farm.

Um, it's not like there's parking lots and bathrooms and places to easily go, but like those are challenges that I hope to overcome as it comes. And I just need to continue to build the messaging that what we're doing is additive and supportive to the oyster industry. I'm not looking to kind of take away from it or, or change that.

Um, um, And let these oyster farmers do what they do best and let me bring people to them to promote what they're, what they're doing.

Kevin: You're right, the oyster farmers are just too busy growing and dealing with oyster related things to actually get into show. But everybody who goes past an oyster farm that has any interest in oysters wants to go check it out.

Henry: There's so much demand. It's only a matter of how we kind of satisfy that and do it in a way that makes sense. And again, is respectful of. The oysters, the industry, the people, the environment that we're operating in.

Kevin: Tell me how an oyster tour works and what that looks like.

Henry: Yeah, what I've been doing for the last couple of seasons are recreational shellfishing tours. So what I'll do is I'll meet people at a designated place, and it's a roughly 90 minute experience that's broken up into two parts. So first, meet there and kind of get everyone outfitted with, uh, gloves and rakes and water shoes if it's, um, in the summer and, and waterproof waders, neoprene waders, if it's, if it's cold in the fall and winter.

And I try and time them as close to low tide as possible when the oyster bed, depending on how low the tide is, might be anywhere from, uh, shin to knee deep, up to, close to thigh high or waist high even.

So you've got to be willing to kind of get in the muck a little bit it's the one of the most gorgeous places in the world that we go on the Outer Cape and we go out there as close to low tide as possible. And there is a oyster bed there that, you know, they're not, they're not moving around. So if you know where they are, they're there. So, The first time people get in within 30 seconds, they're picking up oysters out of the water and the expression on their face when you find a wild oyster is pretty special and that doesn't get old.

So that is the first part of it, but then we also will always spend time clamming as well. But clamming is much more like a hunt, right? Whereas the oysters, if you know where to go, more or less they're there. They might be different sizes, they might be more or less plentiful, but they're not moving around.

Clamming is, in a lot of ways, more fun because it is that hunt, and, knock on wood, we've, uh, yet to come back empty handed. Sometimes you're searching for 20-30 minutes before you find your first quahog. Um, And sometimes it's right away, but most people end up, able to take a small, um, quantity as long as they're within legal limits, I make sure I'm very conscientious of that and the regulations, and depending on how much people are enjoying it, how successful they're being, we might spend anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour in the water. And whenever people are ready, typically, you know, maybe 45 minutes in, then we come out of the water and I have a cooler full of fresh oysters straight from the oyster farmers that I've always picked up prior to the tour.

This way they have the traceability, you know, exactly what you're getting. So I always try and get them as local as possible. I'll pick them up either directly from farmers in Wellfleet or from a wholesaler that I work with that gets them straight from the farmer, the day before.

So these are super fresh, usually Wellfleet oysters, um, sometimes we mix in some Duxbury and Island Creek oysters to compare, um, but we try and keep it super local. So then I got a folding table that I set up right on the beach as people kind of worked up an appetite from oyster hunting and clamming.

Um, pop open the cooler, spread out, crushed ice on the table and I start shucking, and I got a bunch of knives and gloves and, and towels, and this is when the interactive kind of learning to shuck aspect. And some people have shucking experience. Others haven't shucked before. Some people just want to sit back and eat oysters, which is no problem. but we'll spend the next, you know, 30 minutes or 45 minutes or an hour eating oysters, enjoying the beauty of the natural setting where we are. We're right on the kind of the marsh on the water with the ocean in the distance. Um, it could not be more, more picturesque. And, you know, people are eating oysters to their heart's content. And then we kind of wrap it up. So it's split into those two parts. That's kind of the core of our oyster tour offering.

Kevin: It's something I would like to go do on a beach right now. How do you do the clamming?

Henry: Yeah. So you've got the rake and depending on how low the tide is, you could either be on your hands and knees kind of scraping. And, a lot of people use the long rakes. The quahogs that we're looking for are going to be beneath the sand level anywhere from, you know, a half inch to an inch or two down and they when they get disturbed they will burrow in and kind of hold, hold on, but once you get a feel for it, you will start to feel the difference between a oyster shell and a rock and a quahog, hard shell clam and it makes a very unique feel and sound when you hit it and you start to get a, get the hang of that pretty quick.

Um, and it's a blast kind of pulling them out and finding them, um, throwing your basket there. They don't have the brand appeal and they're not quite as sexy as oysters, but they are a lot of fun to hunt and you can do all kinds of things with them back in the, back in the kitchen.

 Kevin: So much fun. How did you learn how to shuck? I mean, if you're shucking for people and teaching people how, you must have some skills. 

Henry: Yeah, um, so shucking, I, self taught for the first time actually in Tomales Bay when we were in, California. Got better from there, learned a bunch of lessons and self taught. Um, and clamming, asking the shellfish constable when I got my permit for advice on what to do and the best way to do it and picking up tips and tricks along the way.

But I am far from an expert and I learned from other people all the time, on ways to improve my technique and success rate. Every single time I shuck oysters, the first one or two, you start slow and then you start to get in your rhythm and you just go. So the way that we do tours and Experiences is very much, it's not about the volume and getting them out as quickly as possible.

 Kevin: What kind of experiences have you seen people have when you teach somebody to shuck and you know, the outside is dirty, craggy, rugged looking and then they get the oyster opened and see that pool of clear liquid with the oyster and the pearlescent shell and they have that moment of discovery?

Henry: Yeah, I mean, it is a great sense of satisfaction and pride that every single person gets when they did it. Usually if it's their first time shucking, they're kind of picking at it for a while, making a mess of the thing and that's what you got to do. But they, more times than not, they'll say, this is a hard one, right? This is a hard one. Yeah, yeah, yeah it's a hard one. But then they get, they get the hang of it and it's super satisfying to them and. I always say, you know, they, they taste better when you shuck them yourself.

Kevin: Especially if you're standing on a beach or in the water somewhere, hopefully fairly dirty.

Henry: You've got mud and sand between your toes and they could not be more fresh and you shuck them yourself. That combination is a recipe for a good time.

Kevin: Have you had much occasion where you have a newbie to oysters and they're: Are they slimy? Is it going to be gross? Should I swallow it? Should I chew it? How do you deal with that kind of person?

Henry: Our guests and the people who've joined are kind of self selective, right? So they usually at least enjoy oysters, but out of a group of, you know, six or eight people, there's usually one or two who were dragged there against their will or at very least not an oyster fan. So there's sometimes one person who will come for the experience and even shuck oysters, but not partake. But they are usually won over by the coldness and the freshness and a well-shucked oyster. That combined with, I bring a usually a classic mignonette that I make the day of, that, you know, just red wine, vinegar, shallot, a little black pepper. Can't go wrong. Um, and I encourage people to eat the first oyster straight up without any, but, you know, if they, if they want to add a little mignonette, um, go for it. And then the other thing is I will make a summer inspired mignonette, depending on whatever's, whatever's fresh. So maybe like a raspberry mint mojito inspired mignonette, you know, dice up some raspberry and some mint and put that in with an apple cider vinegar. And that tends to be a fan favorite. So kind of bringing those two mignonettes along, especially for folks who are oyster virgins, is a good way to win them over.

Kevin: Yeah. The fear that I have when I serve mignonettes to guests for, especially newbies to oysters, is that they put too much of it on and they don't really taste the oyster. 

Henry: Yeah, definitely, definitely a risk. but I don't shame people for it if that's what, if that's what they want to do, especially if they're new to it. But yeah, especially with the fruit ones, there is definitely a risk of, um, not tasting the oyster.

Kevin: So let's transition over to when you're not on the beach and you're going to someone's home or some other place and having a slightly cleaner version of your oyster experience. Tell me about how the tasting works.

Henry: Yeah, I anticipated not enjoying those type of events as much as the kind of hunting and the tours. But I, in fact, like them at least as much, maybe if not more in some ways, because it is an intimate, immersive experience. You lose the kind of farm tour hunting aspect, but you gain the kind of privacy of one's own setting and their ability to kind of let loose a little bit with their friends or their family that they're with and have a really great time.

Um, when we're out there hunting oysters. Maybe there's one or two other people out there clamming on their own and you get people who ask a lot of questions or kind of what you're doing or they're skeptical and I want to be able to be focused on our guests and what they're doing.

And when you are doing a private event at someone's backyard or a pop up somewhere, you're able to kind of control the experience and the environment a little bit more. And most of the time these are people that are, they're either on vacation, um, visiting someone or they're, they're at their Cape house. So people are in a good mood by default. And, will either bring some Sauvignon Blanc to go with it or people bring their own. And I've seen some great creative kind of combinations of things. A woman brought out some vermouth and was trying to put in a splash of vermouth on oysters. And that was amazing. And then you throw on some caviar and this and that. It just is a whole other level if you want to get fancy and have fun is to, kind of is to add on a ton of options and you can have such a good time.

You know, when, when you roll up with, 100 or 200 oysters on ice, you know, it's a good time, and I just, I have yet to, I'm sure there will be something that's a flop for a reason, whether it's my fault or an external factor, but every single event or experience that we've done so far, I've walked away being like, that was a blast. So It's like, now, how do I take it to the next level, continue to do more of this and make it a way that stays true to myself and what I want to be doing and how I want to be spending my time, but also kind I'm going to

Kevin: I want to talk to you a little bit about, your idea of creating a Napa/Sonoma sort of, oyster environment on the Cape. So tell me a little how you would develop the wine tasting ideology around oysters.

Henry: The vision oversimplified again is that making the Cape, which is what's near and dear to my heart, the Napa of oysters, but that's not to say that, uh, uh, where you are in Virginia or Maine or any number of places aren't the central Coast or the Sonoma or different other wine regions, right?

 But there's kind of two avenues that I see being the kind of the most exciting or the highest potential, The one is kind of me creating. the infrastructure so that farmers can open up this channel for themselves, right? But I want to be that liaison between the consumer and the visitor or the local who wants to learn more about oysters and get more hands on and the farmer who's focused on growing the best product they can and not a salesperson or a marketing person or running a tourism business, right? Like that is a significant time commitment and a complete departure from the business that they are in. And I recognize that it's not something that every farmer is going to be able to do, but I'd love to have a handful of farmers who we are able to put something together where people can either self guide or maybe we get into the business of picking people up at their house or their hotel and taking them to three or four different oyster farms the way that you would visit three or four different wineries so that they could compare and contrast. Um, you know, maybe that's what it looks like. 

The other avenue is, do we look into creating and building and developing some kind of physical destination? Whether that's like a tasting room near the water or on the pier or something where we can, uh, host different farmers to come talk about their oysters, and we can have, a rotating tap of six to a dozen different varieties that people can come and do kind of a flight of oysters the same way you might do a flight of sparkling wine, or different varieties, or some combination of all of the above, but that's kind of what I envision as this oyster tourism destination on the Cape. And again, who knows how it plays out, who knows how it ends up looking like, but I know that if somebody else brings us to reality and I didn't at least try, and I had the idea and the vision and the fortune of being able to put the time toward doing something, if I didn't try and it. and play my small part, um, I'd regret it. So that's kind of where I'm at today.

Kevin: Yeah, opportunity missed if you don't take that shot. So what are your main seasons of operation?

Henry: So certainly, you know, Memorial Day to Labor Day is huge. and going into the fall, doing corporate team building events or holiday parties or client events, in the fall in Boston and nearby or private events at houses in anywhere from Boston to the Cape. So, um, we kind of cover everything from from the Boston metro area down through the Cape and everything in between.

And as much fun as it is to go to a suite at the Red Sox or Celtics game, if you're a high powered senior executive, you get invited to ball games a decent bit. And they are hugely expensive from a marketing standpoint and for a fraction of the cost of taking a group of clients to a ballgame, you could put together a unique, interactive, immersive oyster experience that is elevated and fun and allows you to kind of look your client in the eye and talk to them and build a relationship in a unique way. So that's kind of what's taken us to something that I think could be a really, good channel through the fall and winter in particular.

Kevin: There is something about being on a beach in the winter when it's really cold. And I saw something on your website about, I think you called it Winter Adventure. What is that?

Henry: Yeah. So that is the winter variation of the standard oyster experience, right? Of when you go out there in the summer and the water's nice and warm and you can pick out oysters and, and go clamming. This is for the more adventurous soul and hardy. You gotta bundle up, you know you're gonna be cold, the water temps are cold, but we've got neoprene waders and waterproof waders, and as long as you're bundled up and prepared for it, it is a one of a kind experience. It's a little more unique in that Cape Cod is quiet. There's no one else around. it's arguably even more beautiful. and the oysters are at their absolute best as they're plumping up. So it is something that I'm trying to do. And there have been a handful of takers and something that we may do more of. But again, it's I don't know if that's the future of the business or something that becomes kind of a special offering here and there,

Kevin: Have you had problems with any regulations getting in your way other than complying with harvesting regs?

Henry: I haven't had any like hard stops of things that were deal breakers, but I have had things that have caused me to pivot in terms of, I was initially letting kind of any headwind say, oh, I can't do this. You know, the initial idea was like, I'm just gonna reach out to farmers and offer tours and I'll share the revenue with them. And quickly realized like, okay, I reached out to dozens and dozens of farmers. I've built good relationships with a handful of them. But again, these folks are oyster farmers, first and foremost. And then I quickly learned, you know, people are scared of the unknown, or change, or what's new, and that's especially true in a place like Wellfleet and Cape Cod, where if they, say yes to this, that it's gonna become a raucous party on the beach. And that's not what it's going to be. 

So, that combined with the fact that, okay, the oyster farmers grants don't allow them to run a tourism operation. These are all things that are hurdles that we need to work collaboratively with the local municipalities, all the stakeholders and kind of figure out a way that it really is a net positive and that's my biggest message is this is a way to build upon the brand of Wellfleet Oysters and elevate that in a way that is a net positive and organic and truly beneficial for everyone.

But those challenges because it is something that you know when I'm getting liability insurance for the business like there's not an insurance product built for what I'm doing, right? So it's a combination of having people sign waivers that are like hey, you're out there in nature and you're in the water, you're gonna be wielding an oyster knife, especially as a first timer, like, you know, you could jab yourself and these things and it's something that, you try and figure out how to deal with that and make sure that you're as protected as possible. But at some point you have to manage that risk and say, nothing is completely risk free, and ultimately I'm gonna be as careful as possible, but also if I let every potential outcome, um, scare me away from seeing this thing through I'll never start. So you ultimately have to kind of put one foot in front of the other. And that is what led to rather than waiting until I had 10 oyster farmers lined up to bring people to oyster tours, I'm going to do it myself out here in a variation. And that's been great. Or I'm going to do the private events. Um, so that's kind of was like that phase one. And now it's about figuring out what that, what phases two, three, and four look like.

Kevin: What would you say are some of the biggest learnings that you've had since you've started this that you've really been able to use as you continue to grow?

Henry: The biggest one is validating that it is a good idea. I'm a firm believer that every challenge or hiccup you get is a learning opportunity. And it's a way that, hey, your original idea might not pan out for any number of reasons, but if you are willing to pivot and overcome and, take some risks and have some sacrifices, whether that's, your lifestyle along the way or leaving, a stable but boring income on the table for something that you believe in, like ultimately this will be successful. How successful, I don't know in what shape or form it looks like in a year or two or five years from now, who knows? But I'm excited to see what happens.

Kevin: Do you have any tales of woe or particularly, memorable experiences with any of your customers so far?

Henry: The most risky and dangerous time of every tour is not the oyster shucking, it's not when you're out there in the water, it is the 10 seconds of going from the shore into the marsh where it is a little bit, there's a rock, one rock in particular, that's slippery and I try and warn everyone, but we probably have a 10 percent slip rate of people just taking a nice gingerly slip on their bottoms And those are the moments getting in and out of the water at every tour that I am, uh, clench my teeth a little bit.

Kevin: Well, um, I don't see any downside to what you're doing. It's fun for you. It's great for people who are learning about oysters. It's delicious. And, you’re probably instilling in a lot of people a new sense of appreciation of the waters and aquaculture and ecology and all of that sort of thing. So I think that what you're doing is really exciting and it's got some real legs. I can't wait to watch how you grow.

Henry: I really appreciate it. I think oysters are having a moment and I think you're at the forefront of that and we're trying to do some really cool stuff and there's some amazing people in the industry and as I've gone deeper into meeting folks and learning about what some people are doing across the industry it, it has that feeling of it is a inflection moment for oysters. So, if I can have a small part in that, that would be such a satisfaction and win. It's been great just to get to know people and hopefully keep it going.

Kevin: Well Henry, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. We'll have links, of course, to your website and all that you're doing in our Show Notes so people can easily find you and spread the word. Best of luck with everything and congratulations on taking the dare, stepping into the abyss and creating something that's really important.

Henry: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Kevin: Before we go, I want to tell you a little about my own skin in this oyster game. For the last few years, while exploring farms, hatcheries, restaurants and even serving as a small farmer’s “overworked, underpaid apprentice” as he liked to call me, I realized that to truly understand the world of oyster aquaculture I needed to sort of put my money where my mouth is. Having a place on the shallow, sparkling waters of Chincoteague Bay in Virginia, I applied for a permit and decided to raise oysters of my own. It started with just “finishing” a few hundred already-market-sized oysters, which made it fun to wade into the water and harvest whenever friends came for a meal. But this past Fall I decided to really grow oysters – from those little tiny babies that I’ve so often held in my hand with such wonder. So I spoke to a hatchery and purchased 2000 4mm oysters. A 4 mm oyster, for those a little light on their metric equations, is about ½ the size of an average pinky fingernail. Big enough to not require an up-weller to get them started, but small enough so my challenge to really GROW oysters was real. Not to geek out too much, but my crop consisted of half wild diploids, and half disease-resistant diploids. I have them in mesh grow-out bags in a bottom cage that offers plenty of room to grow.

Today’s update? Well, it’s been a long, cold Winter here so far, with what to me seems like an unusually long period of ice covering the bay. And I’m not gonna lie; I’m pretty concerned for my oysters’ welfare right now – they are, after all, in only about 2-3 feet of water at high tide, and it has been damn cold. The ice has just thawed now that the temperature is back above freezing, so I’ll venture out there soon to peek in on my babies and see if they’re, y'know, still alive. And, seriously, I’m more nervous about it than I ever expected to be.

So what am I gong to do with these oysters and ones to follow? Well, I’ll eat a lot of them and maybe do a neighborhood pop-up once in a while. But my secret dream is to be that guy who, when going to someone’s house for dinner brings, instead of a bottle of wine, a pile of fresh oysters and a shucking knife. Whatever the case, I’ll report in to my OYSTER-ology listeners with periodic updates and maybe some questions or cries for help. In the meantime, cross your fingers for me…here’s hoping for the best….

Well, that’s it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks again to my guest, Henry Dubin of Cape Oyster Experiences. You can find the website in our Show Notes to this episode, and while you’re there, please Follow the podcast, and… I’d be honored if you’d leave a comment telling me what you think of the show. Just click the link called “Send us a text.” I read every one, I’m not afraid of criticism, and I’ll always reply. So don’t be shy. Thanks for listening, and join us next time as we pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.

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