Episode 18: Oysters, Heritage and Heart: A Conversation with the Oyster Ninja, Gardner Douglas

Oysters, Heritage, and Heart: A Conversation with the Oyster Ninja, Gardner Douglas

This episode of OYSTER-ology, Kevin sits down with Gardner Douglas, aka The Oyster Ninja, who shares his life story and his passion for oysters. Gardner discusses his upbringing on the Eastern Shore of Virginia, being raised by his grandmother, and learning to shuck oysters from his father later in life. He talks about his journey from working multiple jobs to discovering his passion for shucking oysters and becoming a nationally ranked oyster shucker. Gardner also describes his military service and his entrepreneurial spirit, which led him to start his mobile oyster bar, S.S.Shucking Service and the interesting story behind its name.

Besides telling some of his shucking stories and secrets, which includes shucking for the Obamas, Gardner reveals insights into his podcast, The Oyster Ninja, the longest lasting oyster-focused podcast which he launched after being inspired by a friend's suggestion to share his oyster experiences. Through The Oyster Ninja, Garner aims to unveil the stories of people within the oyster industry, focusing on education and oyster culture. He reflects on the challenges and rewards of producing the podcast, from brainstorming to handling all aspects of production himself. Throughout the interview, Gardner highlights the importance of quality in oyster shucking, the significance of family and tradition, and his role in representing African American oyster shuckers. The episode is filled with heart, humor and humility and shows the true and remarkable man behind the Zukin hood.

00:00 Introduction to Gardner Douglas, the Oyster Ninja

00:34 Fan Mail and Podcast Beginnings

02:21 Childhood and Family Background

07:32 Discovering Oysters and Family Legacy

09:23 Military Service and Personal Growth

13:14 Current Life and Business Ventures

19:21 Shucking Techniques and Traditions

27:04 Oyster Education and Culture

29:29 Understanding the Oyster Experience

29:41 Nationally Ranked Shucker: A Personal Journey

30:47 Competing in Oyster Shucking Competitions

33:03 The Art of Shucking: Techniques and Tools

37:40 The Oyster Ninja Podcast: Origins and Inspirations

40:35 Challenges and Rewards of Podcasting

45:56 Oyster Industry Insights and Personal Reflections

53:40 Future Plans and Contact Information

Links:

The Oyster Ninja Podcast (https://oysterninja.libsyn.com/)

S.S.Shucking Service Facebook page  (https://www.facebook.com/samshuckingservices/)

Vincent Leggit, Founder of Blacks of the Chesapeake, Oyster Ninja podcast episode (https://oysterninja.libsyn.com/vincent-leggett?utm_source=listennotes.com&utm_campaign=Listen+Notes&utm_medium=websit)

Shucker Magazine (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61558450333114)

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

Gardner: My number one goal when I came to DC, uh, once I started a business was to be the oyster guy. When somebody mentioned oysters. I wanted them to think of me when somebody mentioned Gardner Douglas. I wanted them to automatically think of oysters. I mean, it's just, that's just the way my mindset is. Like, if I'm going to do it, I gotta be all in.  

[Bubbles]

Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about the wide world of oysters, aquaculture and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host and the Foodwalker, Kevin Cox. As far back as 2017, before ever thinking about starting this OYSTER-ology podcast, I listened to the one podcast about oysters that I could find. It was called The Oyster Ninja, created and hosted by nationally ranked oyster Shucker Gardner Douglas. The logo of the Oyster Ninja is one of an oyster as a ninja masked [00:01:00] behind a Zukin ninja hood and wielding an oyster shucking knife instead of a samurai sword. I had no idea who this guy was, but I listened to every episode and quickly became a steadfast follower to the podcast, even sending him some fan mail once in a while.

Today, Gardner Douglas is my guest on OYSTER-ology, and instead of him focusing on the work of others, we get to focus on the passionate work of him. I really enjoyed this conversation with Gardner, the OG oyster podcaster, but there were a few who suggested that maybe having him on the show wasn't such a good idea since he is, you know, the only other oyster-centric podcast out there today. But why I thought, would I not have this podcasting pioneer to whom I listened so intently as my guest?  Competition -- if that's even how one might compare the Oyster Ninja to OYSTER-ology -- is a healthy thing and raises the bar for everyone; especially our listeners. And in our time together, Gardner said a similar thing, not even thinking of the two of us as competitors, [00:02:00] but rather just a couple of people really passionate about the same subject and wanting to share it with others. I couldn't agree with him more.

In our conversation, Gardner Douglas shares his life story and his passion for oysters growing up on Virginia's Eastern Shore, being raised by his grandmother and learning to shuck oysters from his father, whom he first met in his twenties.

Gardner talks about his journey from working multiple jobs to discovering his passion for shucking oysters and becoming a nationally ranked oyster shucker. He describes his military service and his entrepreneurial spirit, which led him to start his mobile oyster bar, S.S. Shucking Service, which in turn led him to shuck for many important people, including none less than the Obama's at the First Lady's birthday party.

Besides describing some of his shucking stories and secrets, Gardner reveals very honest insights into his podcast, which he launched after being inspired by a friend's suggestion to share his oyster experiences. [00:03:00] He reflects on the challenges and rewards of producing the podcast from brainstorming with friends to handling all aspects of production himself. Throughout the interview, Gardner highlights the importance of quality in oyster shucking podcasting and everything else you do, and the significance of family and tradition and his role in representing African American oyster shuckers. The episode -- just like Gardner himself -- is filled with heart, humor and humility and shows the true and remarkable man behind the Zukin hood.

So start cooking dinner, or buckle your seatbelt for the drive ahead, or draw your warm bath to listen in about tiny town childhoods; shucker secrets about washing oysters; meeting your father as an adult; the Chesapeake Stabber; the Zen of oyster shucking; becoming a nationally ranked shucker; the difference between oyster knives; shucking for the President; beating your dad at his own profession; the [00:04:00] sexualization of a good shuck; and why being true to yourself is the key to a happy life, with my guest, master podcaster, shucking legend and the one and only Oyster Ninja: Gardner Douglas.

Kevin: Gardner Douglas, the Oyster Ninja. Welcome to OYSTER-ology. I can't tell you how long I've wanted to talk to you and learn about what you do, because before I ever even thought about doing a podcast myself, I discovered you and started listening to all your back episodes and every one since then. And it's like, this guy is cool. I really want to meet this guy. As a matter of fact, I even wrote you a little fan mail.

Gardner: You did.

Kevin: Which you probably, you got lost in your piles of fan mail that you probably get.

Gardner: Stop.

Kevin: So, I'm a big fan and really excited. So, welcome to OYSTER-ology,

Gardner: Hey, good to be here. And, um, wow, your letter [00:05:00] definitely didn't get lost. You did remind me of it though. And I didn't put the two together, honestly, but I definitely remember the, I remember all the emails because that's kind of what keeps me fueled up. I'm like, man, you know, cause you never know during a podcast, you never know who's listening. So when I get emails or DMS, like people telling me they like the podcast and I'm like, you know, that does a bunch for me.

Kevin: Yeah, I agree. A little bit of feedback goes a long way and I imagine you get a lot. But I'm flattered to hear that you saw my email.

Gardner: I definitely, I definitely saw the email. 

Kevin: So, I did a little research on ninja apparel. 

Gardner: Okay. 

Kevin: And came up with any number of different names for the mask that a ninja wears. And the most common one that I seem to have found that looks like a real ninja mask is called a Zukin. Do you have a name for the mask on your logo?

Gardner: I don't have a name for it. And [00:06:00] thanks for taking those extra...  

Kevin: So today, I want to, I want to meet the man behind the Zukin. And that's our Oyster Ninja. So before we get into your fabulous podcast and all the other interesting things you're doing, I want to learn a little bit about you, where did you grow up? What was your childhood? Like, tell me a little bit about that.

Gardner: Hey, you trying to make me cry already, man. Um, no, uh, I've, uh, been a lot of places, but nothing is like home and home is the Eastern Shore, Virginia. A small town called Withems. So we did have a post office But it's a small town where everybody knows everybody and, really great upbringing. I was raised by my grandmother I met my dad later on in life who taught me how to shuck oysters, but my grandmother raised me um Up to high school [00:07:00] and then I thought I was a grown adult and when it kind of do my own thing But um, yeah, you know, I had a brother and a sister, I have a brother and a sister, she raised us all you know, it was real easy living, you know. I always say if I was raised anywhere else, I would probably be locked up somewhere I mean the cops didn't really bother us and But we didn't give them a reason to either but you know, it's just like, you know, it's just real laid back leave it living on the Eastern Shore. And during middle school I got "Most Friendliest" and it was crazy because that made my day. Honestly, here's a secret.  I was going for best dressed, but we were, we were not raised with a lot of money. Um, so my best dress was, uh, a lighter side similar to like your Sunday [00:08:00] best. So I was coming to school in corduroys with a button up shirt or khakis and a, uh, um, Hawaiian shirt. And I love my Hawaiian shirts. I'm not sure why I was dressed like this in the early 90s. I didn't get best dressed. I'm not sure why, but, uh, 

Kevin: You were robbed, man. You sound like you were pretty snazzy.

Gardner: I was not, but I was comfortable. I was comfortable. And you know, what's crazy is doing that, I kind of like found my style and where when everybody else was. I, you know, kind of going with the flow of what everybody else was wearing. I was doing my own thing and that's kind of always set me apart in life is just doing my own thing, doing what feels comfortable, doing what's natural to me and not really following trends.

Kevin: Is Witham's on the water on the Eastern Shore?

Gardner: Witham's, you could say it's on the water. Um. So basically, well, you know, the Eastern Shore's a peninsula, you know, Chincoteague. [00:09:00] Yeah, but yeah, where Chincoteague is on the seaside, I would say Withems is on the bay side. So we could drive not too far and be at Pitts Creek. I'm not sure what the real name of the what it is a Willis Wharf, maybe. We call it Pitts Creek. That's what I was growing up calling it. But my dad actually would drive his boat down from Crisfield to Pitts Creek to pick me up and we would go fishing.

Kevin: So you've been splashing around since you were a kid and in the waters of the Eastern Shore.

Gardner: I would say definitely in my 20s, but not really before that before that going to the water was kind of like a solace. My grandmother would take me after church and we would go, uh, well, honestly, I'll go back a little bit. We were raised up in church. So on Sundays, we would go to, um, the nursing home and visit the sick [00:10:00] and, you know, and just, that was part of life. Um, but she would also take, she'd be like, do y'all want to go to the water? And that was like our, and it still is today for me, my woosah moment where we can kind of reflect, um, chill out, take it all in, getting rocks and skipping stones and stuff like that. Me and my brother. But you know, now what it is for me, it's a recharge. It's go sit by the water and just think and meditate. And my grandmother is no longer here. So I think about those times.

Kevin: So, you had this very focused kind of childhood of giving back and caring about others. It sounds like, are you the oldest, middle or youngest of your siblings? 

Gardner: I'm the oldest.

Kevin: So you were in charge of keeping the other kids in line most of the time, right?

Gardner: Yeah, I was, I was, I was. Uh, I can remember my grandmother telling my my my brother which um is the middle of course Um, he [00:11:00] he was the lover boy So like my grandma would say go get your brother and I gotta you know, i'm all comfortable in bed I'm getting ready and being responsible for whatever's going on the next day I gotta go out and go get this guy. But yeah for sure.

Kevin: So then what brought you to become an Oysterman the way you are? It was your dad when you started to spend more time with him?

Gardner: Precisely. Yeah. Um, when I met my dad, um, I was working at Pizza Hut right there in Oak Hall. I was the manager there and I was also working at Tyson's at the time, actually.

So, uh, funny story. Um, I just got off of Tyson's. And I was getting ready for my shift at Pizza Hut and I saw my dad who I didn't know was my dad. He was a stranger at the time, but I saw him in the parking lot. And it's like, Hey, I want to talk to you about something. And basically the conversation was, he thought he was my dad. Long lost. Let's find out if he is or not. And yeah. And, um, he was my dad. And, you know, ever since [00:12:00] then, we've been great. Um, of course, our relationship was better when I was staying on the Eastern Shore, we spent a lot of time together. Like I said, he taught me how to shuck oysters and about oysters. Um, taught me a little bit about, you know, harvesting oysters and how his dad also went out and got oysters and my dad went out and got oysters. Um, so, long lineage of oysters, uh, seafood. Um, and my grandma also worked, um, in the shucking house on Chincoteague. Um, so, you know, it just kind of got passed down and, um, you know, it's, it's, I love how oysters has opened my world up to the actual world. Because if I stayed on the Eastern Shore, if I hadn't got into oysters, I'm not sure what I would have got into because I've always had a entrepreneurial spirit. Now I've always been good with people, but I'm [00:13:00] not sure what I would have done. Um, the military did help, but yeah, oysters.

Kevin: So tell me about your military experience.

Gardner: Um, so I, I was, um, Living life and living it to the fullest, actually a little too much. So, and, um, I was like, I got to do better than this. This is, and my grandma had passed the course. Um, and I was like, I was 24, 23 or 24.

And I was like, this is not what I'm meant for. This is not, I'm, I'm meant for something more, something bigger. I need more out of life. So I joined the military and, um, I, I wish I went active duty, but you know, the plan is already there for us, you know, so it was meant for me to join the National Guard.

And, um, I spent eight and a half years in, uh, I just, you know, if I did 10, I was going to stand for the whole 20. Uh, [00:14:00] so we, you know, had a deployment to Afghanistan and we had some local missions. Um, you know, with the storms and stuff, and um, it was a game, it was also a game changer.

Kevin: So then was your father a a waterman, an oyster man or was he just doing it because he loved shucking and the water?

Gardner: Huh, that's a good question. He was definitely an oyster shucker. Um, he, he also had a traveling oyster bar, but it wasn't like a traveling oyster bar. It was more so, uh, the, he was the go-to guy for doing oyster and bull roast.

So on the Eastern shore, fire houses, elk slides, his moose lodges, uh, private clubs like that. Um, they call my dad and say, Hey, we got this oyster and bull roast, which is a fundraiser for our, um, private establishment or fire house. And this is, we sell tickets. We want you to shuck the oysters and we provide the food. So [00:15:00] my dad, depending on how many oysters they get, um, um, we'll bring up a team and shuck oysters and have a good time.

Kevin: Did he drag you along, get you shucking with him from time to time? 

Gardner: So once he taught me how, cause I fought shucking oysters for a while when I first met my dad. I mean, he would ask me, do you want to learn how to shuck oysters? He took me to St. Mary's oyster festival. Do you want to learn? Do you want to join? Do you want to get into amateur contests? I said, No, over and over. And, um, finally, um, I saw the potential that the money you could make and um, that's what got me in it. And then I, the the real love of it of actually opening oysters and this Zen because again, I've always been about leveling out and peace and Um at the Zen of oyster shucking and then of course my other love which is talking to people. So um It was a real real addiction, honestly, like shucking oysters and talking people and having a [00:16:00] good time and moving and grooving and spending time with my dad, you know, all of those things played a huge part in the person I am now and the person that I was becoming.

Kevin: It's almost like a whole new adulthood when you meet your father, when you're already in your twenties.

Gardner: For sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, he, he opened so many doors. He opened my eyes and opened my mind to a lot of different things that, you know, I guess being without that dad, um, that's, that's what a dad is here for, you know? So it's not like he was shy about being a dad. He just didn't know if he was my dad or not. So once he found out that he, my dad, he was my dad and you did dad things, you know?

Kevin: That's so awesome. Now, tell me a little bit about you today. Where are you living and what are you doing?

Gardner: So right now, uh, I am living right outside of Washington DC. Um, I have the traveling oyster bar [00:17:00] where I, um, do pop-up events. Um, I also do oyster catering. I hate to call it oyster catering because I don't do any other food except for oysters. But, um If you want to hire me just to shuck, to open oysters, I'll do that. If you want to hire me to bring the oysters and shuck, I'll do that. Whatever you want to deal with oysters. I can do that. I also do classes. Um, so traveling oyster bar is super fun. I meet so many different people. Um, my number one goal when I came to DC, uh, once I started a business was to be the oyster guy. I didn't, when somebody mentioned oysters. I wanted them to think of me. When somebody mentioned Gardner Douglas, I wanted them automatically think of oysters. I mean, it's just, that's just the way my mindset is. Like, if I'm going to do it, I gotta be all in. That's why I had to cut back drinking because I don't know how to sip.

Kevin: [00:18:00] I feel that pain.

Gardner: So, uh, you know, that's where we are now. Um, so I, you know, I have so much fun, um, shucking oysters and meeting different people and you never know who, who you're going to shuck for or be hired for. It's like, man, it's so fun.

Kevin: Have you, uh, shucked for people who the listeners might recognize that you're allowed to say,

Gardner: um, some politicians in DC, say, but the ones I shucked, um, um, the biggest one, honestly, for me is just shucking for the Obamas. Um, it was Michelle Obama's birthday and they were at the Lion Hotel. Um, by Chef Spike, um, up in Baltimore. and, um, they called me. I was like, Hey, Gardner, we got a special guest coming in. We want you. And they couldn't tell me who it was. Um, so, I go, of [00:19:00] course, because if they call, I'm hauling. So yeah, and it just happened to be the Obama's. I got left out of the picture and I'm like every time I look at that picture I was like, I'm supposed to be in there.

Kevin: Well, you know, I asked you if anybody I'd recognize that's about as big as it gets. I mean did you have to go through like security clearance and all that kind of thing before they let you get anywhere close to?

Gardner: Yes, I did. Even though I had a clearance, I have a clearance. Um, I'm DC, you know, I'm military. I got a clearance. Um, so my daytime job, I do work for the federal government. Okay. Thank goodness I haven't got the can yet, but we won't go into that.

Kevin: We'll stray away from politics today.

Gardner: Yeah, um, but yeah, so.

Kevin: What do you do with the federal government?

Gardner: I am a, um, it's a crazy story. Um, my last job, I was actually Secret Service, but I was on the admin side. Um, and I left that job. Not because of [00:20:00] politics or anything. It was just time to go. Um, because again, I'm all about growth um, but now, um, I'm still security, but just on the admin side.

Kevin: So you have a day job doing security. the admin side of it. and you do these shucking events. So when I see your presence online, I see two things. I see the Oyster Ninja, of course, but I also see S.S. Shucking. Is S.S. Shucking your, traveling shucking business.

Gardner: So SS shucking is the mobile oyster bar. Um, And that name, I don't know if you were going to ask, but a lot of people always ask, what is this SS Shucking? What is it?

Kevin: That was my next question for sure.

Gardner: So, um, so it comes from my dad. My dad, his name is Sam. They called him Sam, Sam, the Shucking Man.

Um, so when I came out to DC, he was, uh, looking in everything I was doing online and I, even then I was getting interviews and things. And, [00:21:00] uh, he's like, look, uh, you need to come up with your own business pretty much. Um, so I just cut it short instead of Sam Sam shucking services, S.S. Shucking Service. And then the SS gives it that whole nautical feel. And I'm like, it's on a, I can see it on the side of the boat, uh, but...

Kevin: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Gardner: S.S. Shucking is the mobile oyster bar.

Kevin: It is very nautical. and also it has obviously much deeper meaning, so that's filled with heart. I love that. So you usually go to people's homes or to bars or restaurants to do this shucking or how does that work for you, how does your business work?

Gardner: I've been. Everywhere. Anywhere you can think of. Probably really? Probably. I've been on a back of a, um, tractor trailer shucking oysters in this carnival; Not carnival, but, um, a parade. I was shucking in a parade on the back of a truck. I've done that, handing out [00:22:00] oysters to people.

Kevin: Is the truck moving when you're handing out the oysters?

Gardner: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and then like people are coming up like I'm throwing out candy, but I'm giving out oysters.

Kevin: That's my kind of parade.

Gardner: That was down in Cape Charles. Um, it was called Shuck and Slurp. That was circa 2016, 2017. That was a good one. Um, Of course, like, um, I've shucked in DC, you have all these high rises, right? With these nice rooftops. So I've shucked on rooftops. I've shucked for wakes, bar mitzvahs. So a lot of times in people homes, sometimes in backyards, garages, kitchens, I've done it all. I've done it all.

Kevin: I know that there are, different ways of shucking and I've seen here in the Eastern Shore. What I kind of think of is the traditional going in at the hinge and kind [00:23:00] of feeling that little soft spot and then popping It but then I've seen I think what do they call it like stabbing on the front of the bill?

Gardner: Yeah. 

Kevin: What's your favorite way of shucking?

Gardner: So from my knowledge? Stabbing is actually the traditional way, especially for the Eastern Shore on Chincoteague Island So, um, I got a story, but, um, in the shucking houses, they use the Chesapeake Stabber. And that's because, um, the old days, the Chincoteagues were long as I don't know what.

So that long, thin blade, you know, you just shuck it, through the mouth to open it. Um, but the funny story was, uh, when my dad taught me how to shuck oysters. Somebody wanted salty oysters. So I got these, uh, I got a peck is what they call a peck of, uh, Chincoteague oysters. And I told my dad, I was like, yeah, I'm going to be shucking these Chincoteague oysters. And he's like, Whoa, what do they look like? And I told him, he said, yeah, no, bring them to me. Let me shuck those. And he was right at that [00:24:00] point. I did not have the skill set to shuck those oysters. It was just another beast. I mean, they were long when they're so long.

Kevin: Like that long.

Gardner: So what I was doing was I was buying oysters from the oystermen, the watermen, I was pinting them up and I was selling them. Right. So the whole point of doing it is first getting your oysters at a good price Two they’re super fresh. Um, but the other thing is if you don't shuck the oysters correctly, The oysters will not, I'm giving too much out. The oysters will not soak up the water. So the fatter the oysters get, the less oysters you got to put it into the container. So he was like, yeah, bring those to me and let me shuck them. So yeah, if I would have shucked  them, they would have got some oysters, but they wouldn't have been very pretty.

Kevin: Oh, that's so interesting though. I never knew that. So depending on how you shuck the oyster. It'll absorb or kind [00:25:00] of suck in the moisture the liquor in its shell and it'll plump it up a little bit

Gardner: So that's, 

Kevin: Which makes it probably look prettier and it also takes up more space in the jar

Gardner: Exactly So even if you go to some oyster houses, well it took two things. One, this was the reason why he taught me to shuck quality over quantity he was like, go slow at first you'll get the speed of come but make sure they're clean shucks So that's why I'm big on shucking, you know, correctly, making sure that the meat is all the way severed, making sure there's no nicks in the belly, making sure I'm not cutting up the gills, making sure it's a full oyster.

Yeah, that's one. And then two, of course, like I said, you know, um, the better you shuck, the better they will absorb the water. So, if you go to some shucking houses, they have this big vat, right, where they put all the shucked oysters, in here, and this thing is turning around.

And they're steady [00:26:00] pouring water in there and pouring the oysters in there. Now, the thing that they want this to, I guess, um, they want the oysters to drink up that water. So when they go to put them in a container or their jars, you know, they'll be nice and fat.

Kevin: I always just assumed that. You shuck the oyster, and the liquid that it's in is its own liquor and that you just kind of pour that into the jar till it's full. But like anything else, there's more to it.

Gardner: Exactly. And they call it, they call it washing oysters. So they are, I guess it is, you know, getting the grit and stuff off, but it's also drinking that water up.

This is the reason why I sold so many oysters was because. We didn't wash our oysters. Um, but they were in their juice. So they still taste like they were out of the shell, like your half shell, where if you get them from the store, they're in water. They're not in their juice.

Kevin: So they're not going to be nearly as briny and you kind of lose some of that [00:27:00] merroir That you get when you just open a fresh half shell and suck it right out of the shell. So if you're, if you're traveling with your oyster bar and you're going to different places, you're shucking for half shells, I would imagine. So your shucking approach has got to be totally different than what you just described, right?

Gardner: Uh, no, still, um, still quality over quantity. I'm just now faster at it. So if, if, if somebody hires me and it's going to be around 300 oysters, I can do that by myself. If it's going to be 400, if it's all the same type, I can still do it by myself. It's going to be different types than I might bring on help. But it also depends on how long that event is going on. So depending on how many oysters is and how many types that's hard to pick, if it's just going to be me shucking oysters, um, cause it's also about the experience.

So when somebody's come out to the raw bar, um, You don't want to wait in the line, especially somebody's house. You want that oyster to be ready. You know, you don't want to wait for somebody to be shucking and messing around and you know, so.

Kevin: There [00:28:00] is something I find, and I haven't done a lot of shucking like what you're describing, but I did do a shucking event in Ocean City last year, and there was something magical about when somebody comes up to you as you've got an oyster in your hand and you're shucking it and they're asking you questions and they obviously don't really know, and sometimes maybe even they're a little nervous and in the middle of the conversation, you just reach your hand forward with that oyster that they just saw you shuck and just say, "take it." And it's, it's a beautiful moment both for the person eating the oyster and for the shucker. You must get that a lot.

Gardner: I do. I do. Um, so a couple of things. I love that. I love, um, entertaining, right? And then for someone to see the process from start to beginning, and then I think what sets me apart from other people or other shuckers is, you know, we got the oyster, I'm shucking the oyster, while I'm [00:29:00] shucking it, I'm talking to you. Um, now you have the oyster, but now I'm also walking you through that process. And uh, I'm going to talk you through this oyster on how to eat it properly. And then also as your taste buds find, the flavor in the oyster, I'm reminding you, I'm keeping you aware of what you should be experiencing. Um, so now it's like, Ooh, light bulb, light bulb, light bulb, light bulb.

And. you know, it's like a woman, right? Like, when all those sentences are being hit, you know they're gonna come back. 

Kevin: It's so true. There is something kind of sexy about opening up an oyster when it's fresh and cold and filled with that shimmering liquid. And to give it to somebody, who's never had an oyster before. 

Gardner: Mm hmm. 

Kevni: It's kind of a magical moment, I think, for everybody. 

Gardner: I mean, woman, man, it doesn't matter. You know, really, it's just all about that process of, um, being enlightened, um, being aware of a [00:30:00] flavor or a texture or a note that, you know, maybe if you didn't have the guide, the shucker, um, to walk you through this, you might overlook. Um, and that's why I harp. On oyster education and, you know, taking this very seriously. Um, if you want to excel, if you don't, you know, cool, keep it moving. Um, but there, you know, just like a, a sommelier, you know, that's what they're there for.

Kevin: Uh, yeah. and you're a member of the Oyster Master Guild which is basically taking the approach to oysters as a sommelier might take to wine and really creating a certified industry for shucking and tasting and pairing oysters with food and drink.

Gardner: I do value what they do and what they're putting on.

Kevin: Um, it's so valuable for the industry and, really [00:31:00] spotlighting what, you know, the oyster culture should be. 

Gardner: Um, you know, it's just, again, a magical place where, you know, we talk about Oyster Master Guild. It's a lot of like minded individuals. It's like, you know, it's like you just woken up and you find your match, you know, because everybody's a match, everybody's in that same circle where I believe, even if a novice was to come in that circle, because you're looking, you're going to find what you want, you know, and this is not a paid advertisement for the Oyster Master Guild, but I really do appreciate what Julie and Patrick are doing for the oyster culture. 

Kevin: Yeah, I agree. I think that it's elevating it, to a level comparable with wine. But that isn't to say, I think, and I imagine you probably feel the same way, that oysters have to be elevated at all. I mean, oysters don't need to always be treated as [00:32:00] some gourmet item or, you know, hoity toity kind of food, because there's something just kind of, basic and raw and naked about just eating oysters on the beach or in the water in a raw bar somewhere

Gardner: Absolutely. I mean, going back to the curiosity and sexualism of oysters, it's like, you know You're opening an oyster and you're slurping it with your loved one or eating it with your loved one and you know, it's an experience and that's how bonds are being made. So as a oyster shucking oyster shucker, serving people, you're creating a bond, you know, it's not quite as a love bond, but a good shucker -- people look for the good shucker. It's like, Oh, where's Gardner? He's not here tonight. You know, because why is that? Because the last time was a good experience. They want to know about the oyster farm. They want to know about the oysters. They want to know the backstory about the owners. They want to know the flavor profile. They want to know what's [00:33:00] happening during this season. They want to know all of it. What pairs with it? What else should I have? I like this oyster. What's next?

Kevin: When you talk about having a good shucker, I mean, you, you're not just a good shucker from experience and doing it as much as you have. You actually were, or still are, nationally ranked as a shucker, right?

Gardner: Yeah. You know, I was a nationally ranked oyster shucker. That's, honestly, that's the best I'm ever going to be, or that's the best. I don't, I don't know. I feel like That's amazing. You know how many people are out there shucking oysters?

Kevin: That's true. That's true. Um So tell me about that. I

Gardner: think for me, it's just I kind of see where my dad is with this now. Because he didn't want to compete. And then, our brah is like, Come on, I'm gonna compete. Come for my first time doing it. And then I beat him. You know? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I'm sorry.

Kevin: Oh, that's awesome. 

Gardner: That's horrible.

Kevin: Sorry, dad. [00:34:00] 

Gardner: Right? So it's like,

Kevin: Pass the torch, old man.

Gardner: But that's crazy. 'cause that's exactly what he said. He's like, I'm not gonna give it to you. You gotta take it. Um, and I took it from him and a lot of other people, but that's amazing. Um, no, but the, so to be a nationally ranked oyster shucker, um, you have to go to St. Mary's where it's currently being held or where it always is. Um, and it's a fun weekend. It's a oyster festival. Um, but you compete against oyster shuckers from all over the country. And, that year I competed, I want to say it was close to like 40 other shuckers from all over.

My first year was the best year I ever did. I made it to the final stage, which is where every shucker wants to be at. And, um, you know, during, I think right after I placed sixth, um, you know, the top six is the final, final day. Right. And, um, you know, one of [00:35:00] the shuckers who's like, won it, and he was like, man, um, And it always, it always stuck with me. He's like, you deserve to be here. Oh, you deserve to be here. You know? And that meant a lot to me. One, because, you know, again, that was my first year doing it. And who is this guy? Where did he come from? You know, one of those. And then of course, you know, I'm a black guy. There is not a lot of, there are some, but there's not a lot of Us black people who are in this industry and for him to say that that meant everything to me. You know, you deserve to be here

Kevin: Yeah. Now, do you continue to do these national shucking competitions in St. Mary's or was was that enough?

Gardner: No, I competed. Um, I Think after I got sixth place, um, I think the next year I might have got seventh or eighth um But, you know, I kept the title of nationally ranked, you know, I'm [00:36:00] not saying I'm the top guy, but I'm still ranked. So, um, I just kept it like that. Um, but I, so the way I do it now is if I don't have an event because providing for my family is top priority. If I don't have an event, I'll compete. Um, I honestly do better in Canadian competitions now. 

Kevn: Why do you think that is? 

Gardner: Well, I know why it is. The reason is, they shuck farmed oysters. So, at Maryland, So, I didn't break it down. At Maryland, you get, uh, two dozen oysters, um, and the fastest time wins, but you also have to be clean. So, it's speed and quality. So it's, uh, if you don't disconnect the oyster all the way, you get points added onto your raw time. Um, and all of these are penalties. So your penalties get added onto your raw time. [00:37:00] So if you don't disconnect it, penalty. If you nick the belly, penalty. If you get blood in the oyster from cutting yourself on the shell or something, penalty. Um, if it's off of the shell, like if you, place the shell and then the oyster slides off, penalty. Um, so all of those things, um, give you penalties and it adds on to your time. Um, I think when I placed in a top six, my time was, Ooh, I want to say two minutes and 13 seconds or something after penalties. So my raw time is probably a minute and something, I can't remember. 

Kevin: Wow, and that's for two dozen or two dozen oysters.

Gardner: Yeah 

Kevin: That's incredible. 

Gardner: Well, that's incredible. But the crazy thing is

Kevin: I won’t tell you how long it takes me to do two dozen oysters.

Gardner: The crazy thing is I've shucked faster. It's just the competition is competition. You know and it only gets tougher and I'm not getting any faster. So that [00:38:00] that's the issue right?

Kevin: Yeah Is there a cadre of young turks coming up these days that are just like kicking everybody's ass at the oyster bar shucking faster and cleaner?

Gardner: Absolutely. But to goback to Canada real quick. So Canada you're shucking farm-based oysters to me. I'm always shucking those so I'm real comfortable with them You And they are like butter to me. So usually when I go to Canada, I'll place like four, five, six, something around there. Um, but, um, yes, the Florida boys are killing it. I mean, um, you know, that's, and they're dealing or they're used to Gulf oysters. So that's all they're shucking is like those big tough oysters. And the Florida boys have come and really showed off year after year at the year. I mean, usually it's like the Maryland boys, but you got to think about it. All the Maryland guys are older now. [00:39:00] Yeah. So, and it's not a lot of young people who are shucking in raw bars and coming to these festivals and events. Um, and the ones that do are the ones like me who are doing this for business or catering, not the ones who are actually working in raw bars, doing those happy hours, which is when I placed in the top, I was still working in restaurants and the way I call it, my oyster muscle was in tune, you know,

Kevin: Do you have a favorite kind of oyster knife?

Gardner: Do I have a favorite oyster knife? My favorite oyster knife is a knife that I lost. And that was my first knife. My, my dad actually made that knife for me. That's the knife that I. Yeah, that's the knife that I, uh, did so well in, in the oyster shucking competition. And it hasn't been replaced. Nothing has been able to match what that knife could do. Um 

Kevin: Oh, you must have been heartbroken, man. I'm so sorry that you lost that.

Gardner: Um, [00:40:00] and when I say lost, I lose, I use that loosely. Because it obviously got up and walked away. And that was on me. Because I left it unattended. Um, favorite oyster knife now is gotta be between, oh man, let's see who's paid their sponsorship fees lately. No, um, I, I, I love my, um, Chesapeake Stabber, um, that's made by, um, Dale German, uh, up in Baltimore. Um, Dale is my guy, you know, but that the, uh, Chesapeake stabber is perfect, uh, for shucking oysters, in my opinion. Um, Always send people to Dale's way. I'm like, yeah, just tell him Gardner sent you. Cause when I order a knife, I'll get like 10 or 12 of them for it.

Kevin: Yeah.

Gardner: Because when I go other places, you know, shuckers want to know what I'm using. So I end up giving so many knives [00:41:00] away or trading. Um, and you know, it's just, I still need my knife to shuck.

Kevin: I Want to talk to you about your podcast because like I said at the beginning, you know I've been a groupie of yours chasing you around listening to everything you say You and it's not just your podcast also, it's your YouTube videos, it's your Instagram shorts. You produce a lot of content and it's really good content. 

Gardner: Thank you.

Kevin: Um, so what inspired you to do the podcast?

Gardner: The podcast came from my buddy Ken Blanchard, uh, who was a podcast host, Black Man With A Gun. Um, he also does speak life ministries. Um, but I was coming to work. This is when I was doing armed security and it's like, Hey man, yeah, this week I shucked for the president this week. I shucked a wedding this week. I was in Philly this week. I was in New York and I guess he got tired of me just telling him all about [00:42:00] this stuff. And he's like, man, you need to do something with all this information. Um, you should start a podcast. I actually didn't know what a podcast was, uh, but my buddy John Bass, who I worked with at Rappahannock, told me about podcasts. So, we started brainstorming about, you know, I didn't want to call it SS Shucking Podcast or, you know, I didn't want to do that. So we started brainstorming and we came up with the Oyster Ninja. And then we came up with the logo and then I, I had this little notebook that I used to keep with me all the time. Again, me being clumsy, I've lost so much stuff. But anyway, I had, I kept this little notebook and I had maybe 10 pages of types of guests I wanted. Um, questions I would ask them and, just different loose ideas of what I wanted to talk about. Um, but anyway, I, I just started and so it came from that, but you know, more so now [00:43:00] it's, uh, just when I was working in DC, I was like, man, I just, I just want somebody to write a story or article about me. I just, I just want to be seen. I want to be heard. And I got tired of wanting all those things. And I was like, I can be my own voice. I can tell my own story. Why am I waiting for somebody to, I mean, granted it might not get as many eyes, but I still can tell my own story. Um, so I started telling my own story and then I started telling other people's stories and then people started listening and reaching out and, you know, loving the process and that feedback fueled the fire. And, you know, it was really inconsistent when I first started. Uh, it was a lot of work when I first started. Compared to what I do now. I mean, you were talking about your office. I was in my closet, also. I was like in my closet You know, i'm up all night trying to finish the editing and it still sounds like [00:44:00] crap oh, yeah,

Kevin: I know that.

Gardner: This is horrible but I gotta push it out because I said I was gonna push it out and um now I really enjoy the journey and Iit's If you want to start a podcast now, start a podcast.

There's so much stuff to help you get past all the hurdles I had to get past. You know, you got all this AI stuff and smart tech, knowledge and firmware and all, I don't even know the words, but it's so easy to come up and produce a podcast now and do it. Um, but yeah, I just wanted to tell my story and tell other people's story.

And I didn't know if I wanted to keep it to a region like the Chesapeake Bay, Chesapeake. Or just start telling everybody and anybody's so again I just started telling people's stories that I was interested in and that made it easy and um It's been good. I've met so many cool people

 Um, I've had a bunch of episodes that I've [00:45:00] lost, whether my laptop got stolen or that actually just, just poof, know I re I'm like, it's been a fun journey. 

Kevin: How long have you been doing it now? 

Gardner: Uh, so that was, uh, 2017, I think.

Kevin: Do you have a schedule that you keep yourself to know? Or do you do it when people are available? 

Gardner: Not anymore. And I have, like right now I have maybe four or five episodes I could release. Um, but. I try to do at least two a month. Um, I've done bi weekly. I've done weekly. At the end of the day, it just comes to like, I want to put out quality. That's a lie. I do want to put out quality, but anytime I'm telling somebody's story, it's going to be quality. So it's not that type of quality. It's just that I want to feel comfortable with what I'm, what I'm putting out. I don't want to force it. I don't want to rush it. I don't have any sponsors right now. If you listen to my podcast, I think a year ago, a year and a half. I [00:46:00] had sponsorship. I felt obligated to put out episodes. I don't want to be in that pressure. I know what I'm doing is important. I know what I'm doing is special. Um, but you know, I'm just one person, so I don't, I don't want to feel those pressures. I just want to. share people's stories and, you know, do my thing, you know?

Kevin: And you do everything, all the posts and everything yourself.

Gardner: I do everything. I do everything. Um, again, when I, when I wanted to be known for oysters, social media is huge. I was putting out, when you say I do a lot of posts, I was putting out three posts a day. Um, if I put that same energy in a podcast, I'm not sure where I would be. But,it's on that whole quality thing where I want to respect the stories that I'm telling. Um, so I'm not going to just put stuff out.

Kevin: I agree. I think that that's admirable. Um, you mentioned how you came up with the name and the logo. Tell me the story [00:47:00] about that because before I ever heard your podcast for the first time and I saw it. I saw it online. It's like, Oh wow, what's that? I had no idea who you were and my assumption, I'm a little embarrassed to say it, was that it was going to be like a Japanese oyster person podcasting about oysters in Japan, you know, because of the whole ninja thing. So I was surprised when I saw you and saw pictures of you and realized, yeah, that's not some Japanese guy in Japan talking about... How did you come up with that?

Gardner: So, like I said, Kim Blanchard was the guy behind the ideas. You know, now we have a working relationship where if he has something, he'll come to me and say, Hey, let's brainstorm. If I had something, I'll go to him. Let's brainstorm. Like we come up with some great ideas. Um, but, um, You know, I know I wanted to have oyster in it. Um, I didn't even know about SEO back then, but I'm glad I had oyster in it. [00:48:00] Um, and he was saying. Well, okay, we got to put something else in it. And he's like, Oh, you're like a ninja because you're here, you're there, you're shucking over here, you're shucking over there.

And then we actually shucking it. So instead of a blade, if you look at the logo, it's an oyster knife instead of like a samurai sword Right. So you know, he's like, and I was like, Yeah, I like that. So it's just a bunch of brainstorming. But yeah, once I saw that logo and I kind of, um, I didn't want it to look like anybody else's either. Um, and I was kind of wary about my actual oyster knife being in that picture because at the time my guy, um, Scotty, um, he's the Big Shucker, on Instagram  In Canada. He had just came up with his logo and his logo is great. It's a oyster shell with a chip, like something a oyster shucker with, know the chip of the oyster is missing where he stabs and then it has the right oyster knife similar to mine. So I was like, [00:49:00] ah, do I want to do this? But it's just, it just meshed so well. I was like, yeah, this is the logo right here.

Kevin: It is very distinctive and it's catchy. Now it's funny though because you said earlier that you wanted to share these stories and you wanted to share your passion about oysters and you wanted somebody to write about you and you finally decided that you can speak for yourself, which you do so well. But in fact, people have written about you like you were recently in Shucker Magazine. I think it was right. What was that all about?

Gardner: So, Shucker Mag is, a, magazine, uh, right now, digital print magazine where they spotlight, um, things that are happening in the oyster industry. He's doing a great job with Shucker Mag, uh, spotlight, oyster shuckers and oysters and different oyster articles.

Kevin: Do you see a lot of new organic growth around the oyster industry? it seems to me like there's a renaissance going on, but you see it probably more clearly than I do. What's your thinking about that? 

Gardner: Well, you can't [00:50:00] rely on social media. It's a great tool, Um, but you can't rely on it. But as far as the renaissance of oysters, now is the time for oysters. Um, I mean, there's so many great things. Oyster Master Guild and people talking about climate change and people wanting to start oyster farms for the climate specific. Um, There's so many non profits out there. They're a great opportunity for oysters. And of course, just eating oysters, there are raw bars popping up everywhere. It's a good time to be an oyster shucker. And it's a good time to be a knowledgeable oyster person. It's a good time to be an oyster podcaster. You know, it's a good time for all of it.

Kevin: You get to eat a lot of oysters, which is my favorite part of the whole thing that and meeting the passionate people. 

Gardner: Mm 

Kevin: Do you get involved much with oyster restoration or? shell recovery or things like that?

Gardner: Do and I don't. I do because of course I [00:51:00] love to recycle shells. I think it's just so hard for me to recycle shells being this close to the Chesapeake Bay and the different like oyster recovery partnership.

 Um, I don't really don't have anywhere to take my shells that is convenient. So it's you know, it's those type of issues and I'm just a little guy, you know But if you think about the oyster bars who now are being told by their property manager that they can't keep oyster shells because they stink up the building or stink up the garage, you know It's a huge issue, but I don't think a lot of people was talking about it's just kind of, it's got to be some changes, but I'm not seeing that happen.

Kevin: I am kind of building my own little midden of my own shells outside of my house and it's growing fast and I don't know what I'm going to do with them, but, I'll do something from a restoration standpoint. I think that that's pretty important.

Gardner: And the thing about it is people want to recycle [00:52:00] shells. That's the thing about it. Even when I'm doing events in people's homes. What are you doing with your shelves? They're asking that question. And you know, again, if I'm in DC and there's a spot close by, you know, in route from home, I'll, I'll stop by and drop them off. But it's not a lot of those places anymore. It used to be, I could go to the wharf in Southwest. I could go to a union market in Northeast. Um, there used to be numerous places I could go but now it's like no options.

Kevin: It's a shame. What would you say are among your favorite special oyster memories in your life?

Gardner: Mmm. Man, good question. Kev, you going deep, man.

Kevin: Um. You can cry if you want to. 

Gardner: No, no. You know, it's crazy. That's it. And immediately they thought it came, um, because I did an event last year in Montana and um, they [00:53:00] were doing a documentary. Basically, Maryland cuisine going to Montana. Afterwards they were asking us questions and for some reason they asked me, you know, who am I? A simple question like who am I? I could have said I'm Gardner Douglas from the Eastern Shore. Just like when you asked me, right?

Kevin: Right.

Gardner: That wasn't complex enough. You know, I said, um, I am Samuel Fisher. I am Arintha Douglas. I am Thomas Downing. You know, I am all of those people, um, who You know, don't have a voice or didn't have a voice. I am those, um, African Americans working in the shucking houses. You know, I'm all of those people, I'm representing those people and that culture. And it touches me because, [00:54:00] you know, I really don't take this lightly. What I do is, is, um, you know, it's fun. Don't get me wrong, but it's more than that. I'm bridging a gap, you know, um, Oysters have done so much, for me mentally, financially, spiritually. Um, I don't even know if, if I should say this out loud. It's like, it's gotta be a crime for oysters to be doing this much for a person.

Kevin: We won't, we won't tell anybody.

Gardner: We won't tell nobody else. You know, it's just, it's, it's amazing how many doors. oysters have opened for me, you know, and sometimes I'm just seen as a oyster shucker, but other times I'm seeing more, um, I'm seeing as, you know, not just Gardner Douglas, it's just so deep, it's so complex. I just love where oysters have took me. And, you know, the future is endless. [00:55:00] Oh, man, I am Vincent Leggett. You know, it's just, I am all these people.

Kevin: That's deep. You say I asked deep, you, you went deep. That's great, you really are., I mean, you've got the passion and the knowledge obviously, and skills, but really more than anything, you've got the heart of every oysterman that's ever shucked an oyster. And especially the black oystermen who have been so ignored for so long. And you know, you're representing, and I think that that's absolutely fabulous.

Gardner: I appreciate that. And you know, it's, I post a lot. I post a lot on my personal page on Facebook and I love the comments that say your grandma will be so proud. Your grandma is looking down and she's smiling. It just lets me know the things that she did for us. The sacrifices that she made, you know, don't go [00:56:00] unnoticed and they're not they weren't done in vain. Um, you know, she gave up her life to raise three little babies when she should be should have been retired. Um, So no, I don't take this lightly and, uh, it's so serious to me. Um, even when I'm having a great time.

Kevin: Well, I mean, it doesn't get much better than that. If it's something that really means something so deep to you and you're having fun and it tastes good. I mean, it's kind of the trifecta right there. And, uh, your grandmother, I'm sure, is proud of you and is smiling down from heaven on you and saying, That's my Gardener.

Gardner: That's that's her monkey man.

Kevin: Her monkey man. 

Gardner: That was that was her name. She gave, she gave me this nickname and uh, I'm, yeah. Can't believe I just said it out loud, but yeah, she didn't call me Gardner.

Kevin: I wish I could tell you your secret was safe, but you know,  podcast, so… 

Gardner: I'm not going to be known as the Oyster Ninja [00:57:00] anymore.

Kevin: So what's next for Oyster Ninja?

Gardner: Well, um, I think the plan, the goal is just to go with the flow. My goal is always to be the best version of myself. So whatever comes with that is supposed to be. So just, uh, focus on doing more educational things and investing in myself. Yeah, having fun. Spreading the oyster word.

Kevin: That's fantastic. What's the quickest, easiest way to find you?

Gardner: Yeah, so right now the easiest, quickest way, um It's gonna be to follow me on, uh, Instagram at S.S.Shucking, uh, send me a DM. Um, and then I'll, we can start the process of planning the best oysters extravaganza that you couldn't even imagine. You can email me at oyster ninja events@gmail.com.

Kevin: Great. And we'll have all of this in the show notes too. So it makes it nice and simple. 

Gardner: Yeah.

Kevin: [00:58:00] Well Gardner, I can't tell you how awesome this has been. You know when I finally met you in person in New York everything I had thought about you from listening to you came to life. And to talk to you today and learn a little more about who you are and the man that you are. It's, it's been an absolute joy.

Gardner: Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that, man. I really do appreciate that. I appreciate what you're doing, man. You know, a lot of other people might see, especially in our niche, um, see you as competition or each other's competition. I don't see it like that because we're going towards a common goal and like I you know, your style is not my style and you know, what will we get out to your podcast? You won't get it from me. So, you know, I love what you're doing I listen to your your podcast also and you know, I really enjoy what you're doing.

Kevin: Gardner, I can't tell you how much that means to me coming from you. Thank you so much for being my guest [00:59:00] I can't wait for this to get out and for everybody to hear what an amazing guy you are So, thank you so much for joining me

Gardner: My pleasure

Kevin: That's it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks so much to my guest, Gardner Douglas. As always, show notes can be found on the episode's page with links to easily find Gardner and the Oyster Ninja Podcast, as well as a transcript to the show. Please follow OYSTER-ology and tell everyone who you think might be interested about it. The more followers we have, the easier it is for others to find us. And tell me what you think about the episode or the show overall. Look, I'm still new at this and every bit of feedback helps. I read every comment and I have a very thick skin, so don't be shy. Thanks so much for listening, and tune in again next time as we pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.