Episode 24: Eric Wyatt and Blue Starr Oysters: Oyster Farming at the End of the World

The Realities of Oyster Farming in Alaska with Eric Wyatt -- OR -- From Death Comes Experience...

In this eye-opening episode of OYSTER-ology, host Kevin Cox delves into the formidable challenges of oyster farming in Alaska with Eric Wyatt, founder of Blue Starr Oysters. Eric recounts the journey from his fishing roots to building a floating oyster farm in the remote wilderness of Prince of Wales Island. Highlights include the logistical hurdles of creating and maintaining a farm off-grid, the harsh weather conditions, the complexities of transportation, and the intricate battle against biofouling and sea otter invasions. Eric also shares how his focus on efficiency has led to innovative farming techniques and the creation of the Alaska Oyster Cooperative. This episode provides a candid look at the perseverance, ingenuity, and rugged determination required to farm oysters at the End of the World.

00:00 Introduction and Expectations

00:25 Meet Eric Wyatt: Alaskan Oyster Pioneer

01:01 Building Blue Star Oysters from Scratch

02:06 Innovative Farming Techniques and Challenges

03:29 Eric's Journey to Oyster Farming

05:47 The Realities of Remote Farming

09:12 Efficiency and Innovation in Oyster Farming

23:59 The Flip Farm Revolution

27:48 The Alaska Oyster Cooperative

30:55 Challenges and Future Plans

37:36 Conclusion and Farewell

Links:

Blue Starr Oysters website  (https://bluestarroysters.com/)

Link to The giant flupsy at Blue Starr (https://alaska.seaweedinsights.com/oysters/nursery)

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

Transcript: Eric Wyatt – Blue Starr Oysters

[00:00:00] 

Eric: I don't wanna have too big expectations because you know, the reality of doing this stuff over the years, I tell you, the spreadsheet fantasies with the beer in your hand when you start out, God damn, we're gonna get rich, you know, [laughs] enjoy it. While it lasts my friend. [laughs]

  Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters, aquaculture, and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host and the Foodwalker, Kevin Cox. 

That was Eric Wyatt, founder and farmer at Blue Starr Oysters near Southeastern Alaska's Prince of Wales Island. Alaska is often referred to as the Last Frontier and that expression is no more accurate than in the world of Alaskan oyster farming. And today, Eric joins us to show the true challenges, obstacles, and hardships of this business in a place where few farmers would ever dare to consider and [00:01:00] even fewer succeed. He tells us his story of starting as an Alaskan fisherman and eventually building the Blue Starr Oyster Farm, while at the same time homesteading largely off the grid in a very remote part of Alaska, which he describes as the middle of nowhere. With no shoreline property when he started, Eric realized quickly that he would have to build his farm entirely on the water by designing and constructing floating platforms on which to do well, everything. Nothing could be purchased, everything was built from scratch. And from that meager beginning has evolved an oyster farm, which today not only produces outstanding oysters, what Eric calls “the real Alaskan oyster”, but also a hatchery and nursery to provide oysters to other farmers in Alaska.

With his true pioneering spirit, an independent can-do attitude and a strong sense of humor always shining through. Eric helps us see the very real challenges of oyster farming so far away from [00:02:00] everything and how the guiding principle beneath all he does is, in a word: efficiency. Our very lively conversation flows in multiple directions as Eric discusses his innovative approach to oyster farming, the challenges of transportation, harsh weather, and the creation of the Alaska Oyster Cooperative, he highlights various farming techniques, the importance of water conditions and the unique characteristics of different oyster varieties. And he expresses concerns regarding shellfish toxins and bacterial issues, and the importance of building a sustainable crew to manage operations effectively so far away from everything. 

So zip up your heaviest fleece and tighten your PFD as we hear about the wild weather that IS oyster farming in Alaska, paralytic shellfish toxins giant floating flupsies, off-grid homesteading in the middle of nowhere suspended culture, surface culture beach culture, the adoption of a flip farm, the [00:03:00] importance of efficiency in a far away place, and the realities of oyster farming in Alaska with fishermen, farmer inventor, and true wild Alaskan pioneer, Eric Wyatt.

Kevin: Hey Eric, thank you so much for being my guest on OYSTER-ology today. Uh, your website and the information I've learned about Blue Starr oysters in Alaska is incredible. and I can't wait to hear about it.

But before we get into the farm, I'd love you to tell me a little bit about yourself, uh, your background and how you became involved in all of this aquaculture stuff. 

Eric: Hi Kevin. Thanks for having me on your podcast. I've been, a quick fan and, and spreading the word of your work. And part of the reason, I just want to say, because you're such a gracious host, I really like that you have some kindness there and we need it. 

Kevin: Well, that's very flattering. Thank you. 

Eric: So I, I grew up, [00:04:00] fishing in Alaska. I'm a third-generation salmon troll, halibut. My family was from Wrangell, ended up going to high school in Port Angeles, but fished every summer of my life.

Then I went into the Navy, as an engineering officer, ship driver. And then I dropped out, uh, after I got out and, went up to Alaska and deckhand with my dad for the summer. I thought I was gonna go to grad school, law school, business, whatever. And then I met this, gal who was driving her own a big gill net tender and built her own cabin off grid, so I moved to Alaska. So we lived, you know, end of the world. You know, we took our talents and we gonna live in the bush, you know, and figure out a business and try to live, you know, make a homestead. So that means let's do it. Absolutely the hardest way possible. How hard will it be to build a homestead, you know, [00:05:00] have a sawmill and gonna mill everything. We're gonna build it all ourselves. 

So in that process though, I got interested, and I, met Cindy, my wonderful wife, partner, you know, and we had a five year list or goals, and the thing that we accomplished on there was to have children; apparently, that's the easiest damn thing on the list to do, you know.

So in that time I started thinking about diversification and I talked to Sea Grant about oyster farming and he painted big dollar signs and successes with their lantern nets and everything. And I foolishly bet on that. you know, oh, how hard could this be? Wow. 

Kevin: Tell me a little bit about your farm site, because, um, do you have different depths of water, like from shoreline where it's shallow and intertidal to deep water? 

Eric: That's a good question because the farming in [00:06:00] the area, or the actual site, really has to do with the topography, right? So where we're at is, the Sea Otter Sound area, which is outside of Prince of Wales Island. Which is this massive island in southeast Alaska, 

Kevin: What, what is the closest, uh, point of civilization? Is it Ketchikan? 

Eric: Ketchikan. But then to get to where we're at, we would typically take a ferry that takes a few hours and runs once a day from Ketchikan to Hollis on Prince of Wales. And then we would drive for about two hours from the ferry. And then we're on the outer coast, like on the ocean. So in this case, we're driving to a place called Naukati Bay, 

Kevin: So it sounds like your actual farm is pretty remote 

Eric: And then to where we lived and built all our stuff, we would get to Naukati , get in a skiff and drive for [00:07:00] an hour. And we would end up on this island, Marble Island with, on Tokeen Cove, where we've got a big homestead and stuff, and the farm is just, you know, five, 10 minutes from there. 

So, it's ridiculously far to move any kind of product or any kind of fuel or supplies, you know, but you start out someplace and then you haven't, it wasn't so bad. We had a big fishing boat and you know, a big dock. That's part of the reason I was there 

Kevin: So let me, let me start with this basic question. Yeah. Um, because, you know, you grew up as, uh, fishing and you're catching salmon and halibut and all that great stuff. Why oysters? Like, what caused you to turn to oyster aquaculture and build the farm that you have?

Eric: That's a question I ask myself. Okay. So I would say as part of our off-grid kind of homestead thing. I started reading about agriculture too, [00:08:00] right. I really got addicted to, the writings and work of a fellow named Charles Walters and Acres USA, so it's eco-agriculture. And so I also, you know, have an economics degree and part of, probably part of my Let's Leave Society thing is looking at the system as systems as a whole, you know, and how do we fit into it?

So this goes back though, when fishing, you know, what we're doing is we are competing for, limited, common property, you know, resources. And farming and the agriculture, it's something else. We're actually trying to help husband natural processes to produce wealth from the sun essentially. There's a big difference between the two different mentalities of hunter seeker as a fisherman,  [00:09:00] or, where we're, we're growing a private crop now 'cause we gotta lease the water and we can't own the phytoplankton necessarily. So, the dynamic is very different. 

Kevin: I'm trying to visualize your farm for our listeners and as I understand it, when you started out, um, you had a boat and you started, growing oysters and needed a place to work on them. So you basically built a floating platform, right. That became your farm, is that right? 

Eric: Right. you can't go buy one of these things. No one's building them. So, I milled the lumber and we built this big. I call it a scow. but it's on big floats and it has a metal building on it, and the float is like 24 foot by 40.

That's a big boom on it so that you can, then you have rafts of oysters, tray stacks, and then the boom can reach anywhere on that wrap that sits on the front. And then [00:10:00] the bottom of the boom, there's a track with a trolley and an electric hoist. So you can roll it out and latch onto a tray stack and what that is in our case, is think about smaller lobster pots stacked on top of each other, lashed together with oysters in them, and you, so you can lower them down into the water and hang those off this raft. And so if you think about it, each one of those trays. Just say about two feet by two feet. That's like a little piece of beach in a way. So if you have, eight of those in a stack that's eight little pieces of beach, and then you multiply that and you've got, you know, 45 stacks or 360 trays times, you know, four square feet, all of a sudden you got a pretty good size beach 

To have oysters on. The difference is the tide never goes out. [00:11:00] Everything in the world wants to grow on 'em. Every mussel barnacle piece of kelp and, you know, 

Every possible larval stage of biology is gonna settle out on your stuff. And so that's the joy of the inner of suspended culture on a high flow site. 

Kevin: And then 

Eric: I started discovering we had some gravel beaches and started utilizing that. But we have all these sea otter, eventually they learned to eat oysters. So you have to put everything into a bag. if you're gonna be on the beach. So it becomes kind of complicated. 

Kevin: Yeah. So the labor involved in cleaning the biofoul that's growing. Yeah. And desiccating and all of that must be when you have trays like that, that are suspended and you have 40 some of them, that's gotta be a hell of a lot of work.

Eric: We had a couple thousand. 

Kevin: so even more so, yeah, 

Eric: It was, it's ridiculous. And then we live off grid, so then we have to provide housing if we get any help. So one of the things that [00:12:00] started experimenting with was surface bags. Okay? And, looking at what they were doing, say in the Damariscotta or something, and they have floating bags with when they have floats on the side, right? So I started designed of my own, 'cause they had to be deeper and this and that. So, we found out, Hey, if we leave them in there for, for summer, there's hardly any fouling up in just the top few inches of the water. And then we were rolling them like every week, so, and I shaped to 'em and it really did reduce the fouling. Yeah. And then we put those into trays and what happened is they would be there, say for a season or through a year, there would be a lot less fouling because instead of two years time for biofouling to get going on the shell, it was just one, right. It started to go towards this thing of developing our, of this bag system before it goes into the trays 

so if they'd be in the trays only so long and I would take them out if they weren't up to market, says, and then put 'em on the beach in the intertidal. [00:13:00] And then we also figured out all that fouling and we were mechanically removing it, like pressure washing. So it would even take market oysters now that are fouled up and bag those up like it say 10 dozen in a bag or something and put 'em in the intertidal. And they call that hardening for a tray grown oyster. But what happens, you got hermit crab and shore crabs pretty much eat everything off them. They might pick up a little green tinge of algae on 'em, but, they would become clean. So efficiency from that went up right. 

And later, out of necessity, started to get into the oyster seed business. So got into a partnership and ran a flupsy that wasn't operating well with this native corporation. And we started learning how to do it. And then I eventually built a much bigger one, and I would say arguably top of the line, flupsy, right? Now we can have a lot bigger [00:14:00] numbers of animals in a small space. Where we can continue to do all this husbandry on them and turn out a better product. 

Kevin: So you designed this Flupsy uhhuh based upon the experience you had. And it's a 50 foot steel floating platform basically that, that has a, a paddle wheel of some sort.

Eric: It's a big catamaran. Okay. As big pontoons. And in between them is, a system of channels. We have bins, and they have a mesh on the bottom. stainless steel mesh of different sizes. We essentially bring the water up through the oysters and that brings the food. And so that's called upwelling. Okay. And they do that in a hatchery too, just on a smaller scale. And then I can have 126 of those that has seed in there. And we have a five foot wide paddle [00:15:00] wheel, to move the water through them. So what we're talking about trying to use the idea of efficiency as a goal, right? And how could we produce 10 times what we're doing today. And that leads us, to the present time where we move the whole farm because it's about efficiency, et cetera and all these things.And now the next iteration is increasing and changing our market oyster production. So we moved our farm to a new site. So instead of an hour from the dock at Naukati, it's 10 minutes. 

Kevin: So what you're doing there is you're processing and growing and cleaning and sorting the oysters. And then I would think that being as far away from everything as you are, the whole shipping and transportation aspect of it must be quite a challenge. do you store them anywhere or is it cool enough you just keep them, in the water and then on the deck until you're ready to ship them? 

Eric: So I would have a [00:16:00] float plane would land, And so I built a cooler and we had a little diesel generator that's still running to this day. So we would harvest them, right? Put 'em in the cooler. arrange with the float plane service, they would deliver mail to a village and on their way back they would stop and we'd fill it with boxes of oysters and we would have the next go round and they'd come back in a week's time, right. And we'd send out more. So now the world, as we transition to daily ferry service from Prince of Wales. Right. If you're gonna put a truck on the ferry, it costs so much for the truck. So you need to have so much of an order on that too. Right. So I actually needed to increase production to some degree instead of mail back haul. It's paying for a truck and a driver. So we need some amount of production that's part of the mechanism to become a consistent supplier to the market  And [00:17:00] so a wholesaler or a restaurant and can plan from that. And that's the role then that we started getting into by being able to use the ferry to Alaska Airlines.

 So I ended up working with other farmers and said, how about if I bring you the oysters and you do the last steps and supply 'em to the market? And developed over time, mostly with one farmer, then also with another one, and a little bit with a third. And now my latest farm is actually in the same growing area as them. 

Kevin: I would think that the weather especially during the winter, has gotta be incredibly challenging in Southeast Alaska. 

Eric: So one of the benefits of where we're at on the outside of Prince of Wales, this Sea Otter sound area is, God threw down a big old handful of islands, right. So what that allows though is the wind can be blowing, right? It can be pretty, it's terrible out on the ocean. [00:18:00] But we can be running around at big skiffs in the winter because all those passages are in the shadow of islands and that's where the farms are too. I mean, sometimes it blows 70 Southwest or something like that and you know, we're fine. You find a place, you have big anchors, you figure out how your system is secure, okay? You might not run to market on that day, but the next day, you know, whatever. After being on the ocean as a fisherman my whole life, I'm gonna tell you, you know, the worst day on the farm is nothing like, an average day out on the ocean. 

Kevin: Yeah, right, Well, let's, talk a little bit about, the oysters that you produce. What kind of oysters are you growing there? Is it all Pacific’s? 

Eric: Almost all Pacifics. Crassostria gigas. which is the most widely grown oyster in the world. but of course, hardly any two of them are the same, either because the oyster is such a simple and primitive animal.

[00:19:00] It really takes on. the characteristics of the water, the area that you're at, the food that they're eating, which, you know, they're not even eating what we thought they were eating. It seems so simple. It's so ancient of an animal, yet we're still just discovering, you know, all the mysteries, secrets of the oyster. It's quite intriguing from a biological point of view. I will show you different oysters on my farm. And you can't believe they're the same oyster, essentially, the aim for the latest product is of a small oyster that is completely full of meat. Right. And it's a hardened shell, so it's easier to shuck too. So that's the same oyster though, in essence come same source as ones where I've spent a lot more time in there, in the intertidal. They were in the back 40, they were slow growers and then, you know, I brought 'em from somewhere else, right. And they'll be, you know, five, six inches more, whatever, big and full and beautiful. But you probably don't want to shoot [00:20:00] that thing. so they're pretty much the same. They just look different. And then they seem to taste a little different where they're grown, is it on the beach where they pick up more minerally or, you know, or different characteristics from the minerals that are on that particular beach versus just in the suspended culture or right up in the surface. They do have a noticeably different flavor and they're grown, you know, hundreds of yards apart from each other. It's, it's kind of wild. 

Kevin: What are the ones that you're experimenting with? 

Eric: I have some, Kamamotos right now. And I'm hoping to get some Virginicas too. 

Kevin: How long typically does it take for, your standard Pacific to grow in the cold environment of Alaska?

Eric: So, uh, I could give some answer and say, oh yeah, two to three years. But it's a lot more complicated than that, of course. when you get to an oyster, a seed that is about an inch [00:21:00] long in size and they're really robust and they take off with whatever system you use, and they do well from there. So from that size in a year to two, they'll probably be out of the door to market. 

Kevin: So that makes even greater importance on the use of the flupsy and really caring for the oysters and protecting the oysters when they're small. What, two millimeters and up. 

Eric: Yeah. So that's our challenge.Yeah, they don't reproduce naturally here. You know, we're on the very edge of where they grow at all. Say, you know, in the juvenile stage of the oyster, that's the big challenging thing here. So in nature, they can't survive here normally.

Right. They don't reproduce. there's not enough heat count days for them to do that, you know, but more than that, even if they actually did, There's all these issues and so that becomes a challenge for us when we get little [00:22:00] seed. They barely will go. Okay. For a variety of reasons. But just believe me, I have killed millions and millions or struggled with that, okay. And figured out ways. to help overcome that and still are figuring out new ways. 

Kevin: It's amazing. I hadn't considered the fact that, they're on the edge of growability or survivability where you are and that it's just too cold for them to reproduce. So do you have a hatchery or how do you get your starter seed 

Eric: Okay, there's a big long topic. The short answer is that I get our seed from, hatcheries that are outside. But in that process, though, a fair amount of work, with Oceans, Alaska, it's a nonprofit based in Ketchikan. And so that's where we have been through various iterations of trying to run a hatchery. But it, it, there's all these challenges [00:23:00] here compared to down south. So we're working on that idea to produce seed or at least set seed from larvae here so that As we go into the future, We, have a little more options on our seed sourcing. 

Kevin: So you're getting your seed, when it's very small and then you're, nursery-ing it into something that's big enough that it's going to survive and grow robustly, once you get it, out in the suspended part of the farm.

Eric: So if we get it at the right time of year, the water temperatures are coming up, the phytoplankton is really starting to go right. And then we carefully mm-hmm. Try to give it the best chances and protect it and kind of force feed it. Then a good amount of that will, take off. And so my job, of course is nursery men or whatever has been to figure out how to have the best result.

Kevin: Yeah. So I [00:24:00] want to hear a little bit about your flip farm and how you came across the whole flip farm technology and it opened up a whole new world of efficiencies that you had mentioned and the proper kind of flow. And as I understand it, you in part are now adopting that kind of tech.

 Eric: That's right. 

Kevin: I would think that it would be very difficult to Start the whole flip farm process, especially in Alaska. 

Eric: Right. So I was describing how we're doing this surface bag system and then we're changing it and we Start flipping our own and doing that. But I've done enough in all these years to say, oh, this guy over here has taken the same idea but figured out how to do it even a lot better. And I'm like, I don't need to build it again. But their whole, idea with economy of motion. Right. and some mechanization, but that's, they've really figured that out. So this is back to the, yeah, I've cut the tree. I milled the wood, I built the [00:25:00] house. And in this case, I was doing that myself. And I'm like, these dudes are doing a better job next door. I'm going over there because I, I've done this myself. I know what I'm looking at now. Okay.

And so they're evolving at such a fast rate, right? So I waited for a few years and They seemed to work. And then I had an opportunity, and a decision as we moved from this other farm. And I knew I, I'm, I guess I'm at the age, this is my last shot, and I'm going all in on the flip farm stuff.  

I'm finding with the flip farm they were so much more uniform that it, the whole process was faster. And some of the efficiencies are even ones I'm like, I didn't even realize until I did it. And, and here's the amazing part. It would be, like, that would've taken us two days. It just took four hours. Wow. 

Kevin: How big a crew do you have right now? 

Eric: So I, I, had seasonal crew in the [00:26:00] past and. this last year a local gal who's returned several times, Becky, turned into full time, year round I have an intern coming for a couple months. But I keep hoping to find someone that lives on Prince of Whales that could have the skills and interest to, do part-time, turn into full-time. So actually we have quite a small crew that's been part of figuring out as a business how our gross is high compared to our crew number and that's one of the essentials. You gotta make sure it's the efficiency. And you gotta pay at a decent rate. And there's one other part, you know, that we're finding is that it's gotta be decent work.

So the work that I did when we started oyster farming and all that scut stuff and the nastiness, you know? It's hard to get anybody to wanna do that for a living. So that's one of my focuses too. And the Flip Farm is part of that. You know, the work [00:27:00] is more enjoyable. Your product is beautiful. People love it. And you get this beneficial cycle going on, and I can pay you a decent rate, you know, and the hours are gonna be okay 'cause they're efficiency high. And so you do wanna work here by God? 

We have a problem with the number of people in Alaska. It's a real challenge. And so the idea of the Flip Farm lends it towards that idea. We need to have a way to produce a lot of oysters per person. 

Kevin: I see a through-line going through all of this, and that is the notion of enhancing efficiency, finding a better way to do these things that makes more sense, both from a timing standpoint, equipment standpoint, crew standpoint. And that leads me to, the, Alaska Oyster Cooperative. And as I understand it, you were instrumental in the formation of that. Can you tell me a little bit about that and how that works with the other farmers? [00:28:00] Okay, 

Eric: So we are really just, we're getting off the ground. And so we got five member farms and the focus of, what we want to do is actually increase that efficiency again. Okay. And our farms are not very far away. So what, what we're doing individually now, we want to bring together as a group and we've gotten a site, so a lease from the state, a tide lands, and a little uplands. And it's not very big, but we've just actually put in a rock pad And we just this week dropped a converted shipping container that's a, got a built in cool bot cooling system and other stuff on the site so we also want to build an offloading pier.

So, you know, everything goes across by hand still. you drive your pickup truck down there and then load it into the back of that. I want to have, an electric hoist so that you [00:29:00] drive your skiff up there, we can reach down, pull up a palletized, totes or whatnot, and then take a forklift and drive it into the building. Yeah. That is just where we are at in terms of there's nothing here. There just really is no built-in infrastructure in this area, including, no, like old fishing infrastructure to really take over either. 

So we're kind of clearing raw land to do our project. So we're figuring out how we're gonna work together. And even the exact management. So to us it'll be, I go, it's the value and pay as you go. We know already it's gonna increase our efficiency to begin with. You know, we want eventually weigh the oysters and count them individually, so we don't have to do that and then box 'em up and then cool them. And then be able to just roll 'em into the truck, right? So all [00:30:00] those steps are getting tantalizingly close. And we've had, some amount of backing from USDA. Of course. That's all in freeze world. Who knows? It's gonna happen. 

We have a member who's buying one of the farms or our older members, and he just graduated high school. I think he's 18 years old, you know, and we've got another new member. We've gone from three to five pretty quick. So it's pretty basic idea of working together and we've got these common hurdles to overcome and we're all doing it in our own way, but everybody's buying into taking advantage of it, you know. 

Kevin: Well, it sounds like such a great idea, especially in an area where there isn't much infrastructure like you say, and being able to build infrastructure that you can all use, and share the expense and the efforts and getting all of that done, just makes a great deal of sense, especially in a place like Alaska where you are, 

If you had to say what are the biggest challenges of [00:31:00] growing oysters and doing what you're doing in that part of Alaska, what are the really high hurdles that people have to think about?

 Eric: There are several, that's why I'm pausing. one of the biggest hurdles actually is the fact compared to any other kind of agriculture, right? You can't, you hardly can't just go buy a farm. There isn't one. So you gotta build this whole farm thing. And we are at the end of the pipeline our expenses are more than anyone else. by the time you pay all the freight, and then the barge line, dear Lord. And then, oh, my most recent one -- thanks for the tariff, so… It's so expensive, but it's hard to get stuff. Okay. I, at the moment I'm down in Washington state helping my dad, with the construction project. I'm like, we drove in one day, three times, the Home Depot, you know, and I go, [00:32:00] you mean this isn't all thought out? You don't have to have this long sheet, and then it takes months and years to do it because you gotta source everything from Timbuktu. Oh no, you just drive down here. And I'm like, okay. I don't think you regular people are gonna understand how hard it is to build anything.

Kevin: Right. 

Eric: So that's one problem. Second problem would be for people that didn't grow up or have experience there in that part of country. and you come in the summer maybe, and it seems benign and beautiful if rainy. But when we get into the Fall the Winter and the Spring, it will take your life out on the ocean. one of our, you know, most productive oyster farmers who, had taken over the farm from his dad, but was coming up just in the summer, and then he said, hell, he's coming in April the first time, and he was gonna do something and he had a 16 foot skiff and he was gonna go to the farm out here.

And I'm telling [00:33:00] him, hey man, this ain't June. You better be careful. You know? And I think it was Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then later he told me “I thought I was gonna die,” I'm like, Hey, man, now, you know? And people always go, oh yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, And even on these inside waters, you think I'm joking, that's gonna blow 70 Southwest. Yeah, it can. That can happen here sometimes in the winter or whatnot and we're just going to the farm, you know?

So people experience something bad and a lot of people, it makes 'em super cautious then they don't wanna leave. But if you've got some waterman experience Then that really stands you in good stead. Because you can't underestimate that. You're just going to the farm, you're just doing these things. But it could take your life if you're stupid and not prepared. And a lot of people have problems too with, they don't understand small engines.

So we're with outboards and we're with small engines. Right. And they will get their butt blown up on the beach or whatnot and you're going, my starter failed on me. [00:34:00] Yeah. 

You know, so those things, you're on the edge a little more and you have to think safety a little bit, you know? Go ahead and put that, that little troublesome red, curly Q strap on the outboard, you know, put it on your wrist. You're out there by yourself. You can put a life jacket on. Guess what? They're warmer. the basic safety things that people ignore. Right. Then you come to find out Uhhuh, maybe that's a good idea.. So none of us can drive up with a truck down to our leases. everyone has to go In a skiff so our farms are all accessed via water.

Kevin: Well, it sounds like the challenges of growing oysters in Alaska are extreme compared to so many other places. And, it takes people like you to make it work efficiently and how to be smart about it to produce, incredible oysters.

 Eric: You're reminding [00:35:00] me of another one of the challenges. Is that it's hard for us to get materials and stuff here, but that's equally hard for us to get product out. Where's your market? Who's it going to? Right? People are asking me all the time, are you gonna ship to Texas or Florida? I'm like, no, because actuallythose logistics don't even work at all. So, who are our customers then? How does that relate to expansion? And that's also one of the, elements of lean, you know, is finding out you think you know what your product is, you really actually gotta find out from your customers. Right. What, what are the, the niches that you can fill? What is the demand?

Kevin: What are your expansion plans or where do you see yourself in the next five years with all of this?

Eric: So we have a fair amount of local demand in Alaska. It still needs to be sent, still needs to be shipped to some degree. We have independent travelers that come around quite a few. And there's [00:36:00] starting to be more offerings by local restaurants in Sitka and Juneau. But mostly, one of the bulk of what we've doing is supplying Anchorage and they supplied all these restaurants in that area.

 Kevin: Are you sending much down to the Pacific Northwest, Seattle? 

Eric: We aren't that area. No. I'm focused more, like right now the expansion plan is, Ketchikan has like 1.5 million cruise ship tours last year. Visitors and it's going up. If I could get them to eat one oyster per passenger, that's probably all I need to produce. You know, how can I connect those dots, you know. Now the crews from the cruise ship are coming down, and it's just started. And I think. We're onto a thing there. we're still in the wholesale market, 

And then the third one is for some of the visitors, have an experience, right? you have a half a dozen oysters here as you're seeing, the views. And I think that's the value we're trying to look at. And back to efficiency. Let's not [00:37:00] spend money on FedEx and all that jazz. You just come and eat 'em right here. And they came in yesterday in a truck and here they are.

Kevin: Yeah. I think that more and more people want to have not just delicious oysters, but like you say, the oyster experience. 

Eric: Right. Let's bring the farmer come in once in a while and have, interaction too. So let's have an experience and it's authentic and not some more stuff from China or whatever, 

Kevin: I think that the whole, transient traveler kind of market, the cruise ship market and others like that is really, a target audience who's gonna truly appreciate your product.

Eric: I don't wanna have too big expectations because you know, the reality of doing this stuff over the years, I tell you, the spreadsheet fantasies with the beer in your hand when you start out, God damn, we're gonna get rich, you know,

enjoy it. While it lasts my friend,

Kevin: You know, the other thing 

Eric: You remind me of that when we say what's your level of expertise, [00:38:00] and usually we start at a conference and saying, Well, I've killed a few million, or I've killed a killed 10,000,020. And I'm like, okay, okay. You can talk. We'll listen to you. Uh, from death comes experience, man. 

Kevin: That may need to be the title of this episode, Well, Eric, this has been so fascinating and, thank you so much for all of your time you know, like we said at the beginning, we could talk for hours because every time you mention something, I have 10 more questions about it. 

Eric: Okay.

Kevin: Well, that's it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks so much to my very entertaining guest, Eric Wyatt of Blue Starr Oysters. Links to Blue Starr Oysters' website, which includes great photographs of the farm throughout its growth progression, are included in the show notes along with the transcript of this episode, so be sure to check it out and please follow ology wherever you listen to podcasts. The more followers we get, the more others will discover us too. [00:39:00] And if you like this episode or wanna say anything about it, please leave a comment to let me know. Thanks so much for listening, and be sure to join us again next time when we pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.