Episode 29: Meta Mesdag and Salty Lady Seafood Co: Cultivating Oysters and Family in Alaska

This week on OYSTER-ology I sit down with Meta Mesdag, Founder, Owner and Operator of  Salty Lady Seafood Company in Juneau, Alaska. Meta shares her unanticipated journey of becoming an oyster farmer after moving from Portland. A critical aspect of hef family-oriented farm, which started in 2018,  is including her kids and other young people in its daily operations. But the farm's primary goal is not to turn her children into oyster farmers, but instead to help them become well-rounded, successful individuals who are not afraid of hard work. Meta emphasizes the challenges and joys of oyster farming, from handling harmful algae blooms to fostering a sense of belonging and hard work among the young crew members. Despite the physical and logistical hurdles, she highlights the rewarding aspects of seeing oysters grow and fostering a supportive, close-knit team. And through our conversation we see how responsible oyster farming not only fosters the future of the environment, but also the futures of those who do the farming.

00:47 Welcome to OYSTER-ology

01:10 Starting Salty Lady Seafood

06:36 Learning the Ropes of Oyster Farming

15:25 Challenges of Oyster Farming in Alaska

22:24 The Role of Family and Community

30:54 Future Plans and Reflections

33:00 Conclusion: Passion and Gratitude

Links:

Salty Lady Seafood Company website     (https://www.saltyladyseafood.co/)

YouTube video: Meet Your Alaskan Farmer, Meta Mesdag (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPvJhfjVbL0&list=PLuuqkhFcq8idjBvLfvo84uO3qPos2Gxvi&index=2)

Sea Grant Article about Meta Mesdag (https://alaskaseagrant.org/2019/05/juneau-oyster-farmer-battles-red-tape-to-grow-family-business/)

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

[00:00:00]

[bubbles]

Meta: The purpose of the farm isn't for my kids to become farmers. That is not the intention of the farm. The purpose of the farm is to shape my kids into people that are incredibly well-rounded and successful and gritty and not afraid of hard work and not afraid to step out and do things that are way outside of their comfort zone. Right? Like, I want them to know and understand what it means to be able to do something just because they can. I don't know, go take the trip, go sail around the world go, go do that thing. and I want them to understand that their life can be what they make it if they just like it just takes making a decision. The rest is just work and they know how to do the work.

[bubbles]

Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters, aquaculture, and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host and the Foodwalker, Kevin Cox. Have you ever wondered what drives a person to launch a career as an oyster farmer, especially when it's not something they were born into or [00:01:00] grew up around?

Every farmer I've spoken to on OYSTER-ology has their own unique story of the path, which led them to a life of aquaculture. For each person, the motivating factor is different, and the story is always interesting. For my guest this week Meta Mesdag, the owner and operator of Salty Lady Seafood Company in Juneau, Alaska her drive to dive into the world of oysters as a complete novice can best be summed up in one word, family.

A successful photographer with her own business made up with her husband and kids left Portland, Oregon for Juneau, Alaska. She quickly found that running her photography business increasingly meant more and more time at her computer, while her kids living in the wilds of Alaska were neglected and missing the very environment she had intended for them when they moved there.

So she pivoted in a direction she never before thought of and became an oyster farmer. Her motivation to include her kids in the business, teach them some skills and spend active [00:02:00] quality time with them on a daily basis. Just one problem. She knew nothing about farming, much less oysters Still, Salty Lady Seafood Company was born in 2018 in the image of her daughter and with family opportunity in mind.

Together, Meta and I talked about her unexpected foray into mariculture and what it's like to farm oysters in Alaska. She explains the complexities of oyster farming in the Alaskan environment, including the effects of phytoplankton on oyster growth, harmful algae blooms, and the challenges posed by seasonal weather variations. Most importantly, she highlights the role of youth in her farm, fostering a sense of pride and joy in the work they do together, and emphasizing the importance of organizational strategies, which empower young people and prepare them for the future.

 So turn off that video game and prepare to play outside like a kid again. As we hear about the importance of learning from local knowledge, the pain of [00:03:00] getting your farm shut down, the importance of always saying yes, cold Alaskan weather, the constant fear of phytoplankton and algae blooms; the strength of swimmers, the power of empowerment, lessons of hard, wet work, and preparing your kids for the future with oyster farmer, photographer, mother, and youth empowering entrepreneur, Meta Mesdag.

 [bubbles]

Kevin: Hi Meta, welcome to OYSTER-ology, and thank you so much for being my guest here. I'm so excited to hear the story of Salty Lady Seafood, which as I understand it, you are the founder of and principal person kind of running the show. Tell me a little bit about that and how you got involved in an oyster company in Juneau, Alaska.

Meta: Hey, Kevin. Thanks for having me. So, I didn't anticipate when I was headed to college that I would someday be an oyster farmer. I didn't see that path for myself. I had been a [00:04:00] photographer and We came from Portland. I was born and raised in the Portland metropolitan area and met my husband in Corvallis and we started our family in Portland and then moved up to Juneau when our kids were little.

And I started to recognize like as my business grew, that my kids were kind of getting robbed of this opportunity to, to do more stuff outside as I was stuck sitting on the computer processing images. So I approached my husband and said, let's, let's do something. Let's start a family business that the kids can be a part of. We knew we could start a business together. He helped me start my photography business and he was totally implemental in that. He's such a great balance to my personality and so grounded and capable at doing all the technology, like all the computer stuff. So, anyhow. He's involved in a lot of economic organizations and was like, well, uh, mariculture is the number one economic opportunity in the state. And I was like, well, I don't even know what that is. And he was like, it's like [00:05:00] gardening on the water. And I was like, oh, that sounds cool. Okay, I could do that. That sounds good. And he was like, yeah, I feel like you're really good at growing stuff. I think that you could totally grow stuff on the one. I was like, that's perfect. Let's do that. And I just rolled with it and I wanted to do something unique for the kids that they could, like, grow up and grow with, right.

I wanted the business to be scalable as the kids got older and more capable that they could do it with us. And that's, exactly how it's happened and, and worked out is we started the farm in 2018 and at that point I didn't know anything about farming. I just knew that I, I wanted to shift my focus to a business that was more family oriented. Mm-hmm. And so, my husband encouraged me to do it. And, and it was all an idea in, I wanna say it was like January, February. It had just been that spark that like, I want something different for the kids that's not playing in the yard while I'm on the computer. Right. And then [00:06:00] by April I had submitted the transfer documents, like the reassignment documents for the lease that we got. It was already permitted since 2003, but had never been developed. And then by May we were setting anchors. And by August we had seed on the farm. And that process usually would take up to two years. So, um, what was actually a really long process. for us was really fast because the lease already existed.

So anyhow, that was kind of how it all started. And we have a really big family in Juneau, and a lot of kids and a lot of cousins, and a lot of really like capable, successful people. And all of them just rallied to help make this work. my husband's cousin helped with his boat to do all the moorings and my father-in-law is a carpenter, so he helped me build my rafts and structures with [00:07:00] my brother-in-laws and husband and kids. And and then my nieces are scrappy, strong girls and they help work at the farm

So it's, yeah, it's been a huge family endeavor and then we all go play together at the farm everybody goes and plays and swims and camps and stays the night and stuff.

Kevin: And all the oysters you can eat.

Meta: All the oysters you can eat. Yep.

Kevin: Did you like oysters before you got involved in this or was this something you had thought about?

Meta: I mean, I don't know that I'd ever even eaten oysters before I started this. Really just, my husband was like, well, I know mariculture, there's a, mariculture is a big economic opportunity in this state. It's been identified as one of the greatest economic opportunities. And I was like, oh, I don't even know what Mariculture was. Yeah, I wasn't an oyster person at all. And now I am, I guess I grow

Kevin: well. Yeah, I would say so.

Meta: Oysters lots and lots of oysters. So, yeah, no background in oysters, no background in [00:08:00] oyster farming. It's just kind of random. And in fact, when I talked about it to our family, like I brought it up and was like, I think I'm gonna do this. It was just so left field that they were like, Okay.

Kevin: And at some point before making that final decision, did you say “we gotta go get some oysters” and do we even like these things?

Meta: We live in Alaska, so we love seafood and you know, now we eat a lot of oysters and everywhere we go we eat oysters. Where before I probably would like, see it on a menu and not really, like, it wouldn't catch my attention as the thing that we had to have when we went out to eat or something. But yeah, now we definitely try to get oysters right when we go places so we can try all over.

Kevin: The kids like 'em too?

Meta: My daughter does not like them. and my sons do.

Kevin: So hang on a second. Your daughter doesn't like oysters, but your daughter, is the Salty Lady?

Meta: She is, yeah. She's the inspiration for the Salty Lady. Yep. She is our little OG salty [00:09:00] girl.

Kevin: But she doesn't like oysters.

Meta: Yeah.

Kevin: There's a certain poetic beauty to that,

Meta: Yeah.

Kevin: How did you actually learn how to farm oysters?

Meta: Really the simplest answer is when I decided that this is what I was gonna do, I got in contact with somebody who ran a hatchery in Ketchikan and then he was like, you should come visit and check out the hatchery. And then I was like, okay. And and then, you know, it snowballs. Then he shares a number and I talked to them and they're like, oh, you should come stay with us and visit our farm. And then I was like, okay. Like every opportunity I got, I just said yes to So then I ended up traveling around and looking at a few different farms and looking at different gear types and systems that are used and comparing their, specific water bodies to my water body and just trying to like, come up with what are we gonna do? How are we gonna do it? We're working with a really, really small space. one of the smallest farms in the state that's [00:10:00] like actually producing as much volume as we do. So anyhow, just said a yes to a lot of, to every opportunity. And then that help me build a lot of connections and gain a lot of industry knowledge directly from the other farmers in the state. It's really small group. There's not a lot of us and so everybody's pretty generally really supportive of each other.

Kevin: It sounds like good advice for somebody else who's starting or wanting to start this business is always say YES and just seize every opportunity you can.

Meta: Within reason yes. There's just so many things that I do have to, set boundaries, 'cause I could end up way too busy and then it would just rob my kids of my time and that's not what I'm looking for.

Kevin: So tell me a little bit about your farm. And you were the first farm in Juneau, is that right?

Meta: Yes. Well, technically, my farm site was already permitted, so I got it [00:11:00] from my husband's high school art teacher. And it was just coincidental when we picked locations. The state was like, oh, there's already a farm site here that's permitted. It's not been developed. There's nothing there, but you should talk to him. 'cause he was interested in selling it. So anyhow, he sold us the farm site so technically he had the first farm, but it didn't have any product or anything on it.

Kevin: When you say “sale,” how does it work in Alaska? Do you own the bottom or is it just the lease that you get?

Meta: I don't own it. I have a state tide land lease the state comes out and inspects it

 Kevin: Tell me about your leasehold.

Meta: So, we have a full acre. And really up until last year, we only operated a half-acre and we've kind of started expanding on it by pushing things out a little bit to make more room, um, to where it's maybe three quarter of an acre.

Um, but then the other half is an inner tidal parcel that we've started working with these, helical baskets that, that hang in the inner tidal on [00:12:00] lines with stakes, kinda like clothes lines with these baskets that hang from 'em. And so we are trying that gear system, but we currently run Vexar bags and we run, suspended stacks of trays that we suspend from grow out rafts. We have a nursery with a Flupsy, and we get three millimeter seed. So it starts in the Flupsy. Which is in town. And I've got this like, really amazing woman taking care of all my itty bitty babies. And she just got 'em seeded yesterday.

Kevin: So the Flipse is in town.

Meta: All of our itty bitty babies start there and we handle 'em for a whole season. Then we move them into bags on the farm, and then they spend at least a year in bags where we're like flipping the bags and cleaning the bags. And then once they're maybe like an inch, inch and a half, when they get to that range, then we move them to stacks, right. So that, because by that point they have this like, really good deep fundamental shape. Right. The bags are really great because of how much movement there [00:13:00] is. They're a really great way to help make a fundamentally deep cup and then when we wanna see growth, we'll move 'em to stacks where they don't get as much handling, they just get to sit and eat. So then we run stacks. We've got two grow out rafts. One of 'em is under an I-beam and we'll run stacks that are nine trays deep. And then we have another growout raft that is not under the I-beam that we run stacks of five trays and much to my husband's disliking, we pull those by hand unless it's like spring and they're really dirty. Right. Um, we just, like everybody bends down into the water and we like hand pull it and it's maybe 200 pounds. and so if we get three or four people, then we just each like grab it and pull it up on deck. and then this system that we have in the intertidal parcel, we only have 50 of those. And it was just to, it was an experiment to see like, will this work? Nobody else is [00:14:00] doing it in Alaska. But I did a trip to Ireland and people were doing it in Ireland and we were like, Hey, we have 50% of our farm looks kind of similar, however it's Alaska and it's cold in the winter and there's a lot of southeast exposure with a good amount of fetch. So we do see some surf roll in on that beach when it's nasty out. so we were able to get a grant basically to pay for us to try out this system. So we'll see. It worked well last summer, but we can't leave things there. That was a bit of a tangent, but I just wanted to make sure I explained that.

Kevin: Right. So you've got the SEAPA baskets, you've got the suspended trays.

Meta: Mm-hmm.

Kevin: And then you've got the Vexar bags. Well, those are the ones with the little, uh, plastic floats on either side of the bags. Is that right? Yep. And, and you have a, so you've got some sort of solid line secured in the water and they're all clipped onto it or something like that?

Meta: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So we were kind of chatting about just saying Yes. Like in the beginning when I started the business, [00:15:00] like just saying yes to opportunities that came. And when it came time to set my mooring system, I didn't know like how to set a mooring. I didn't know anything about it. And so I would just haul the kids around with me and we'd go find big boats and barges and walk the docks and just start asking questions like ask people, you know, and when you've got like a two and a half, 3-year-old on your hip and two little boys, like people are generally really nice and you know, I'm looking for big anchors. Does anybody know where I can find big anchors in this town? And then I'd get sent to somebody who then would send me to somebody else and I would just keep on trucking and taking my kids to go meet people and talk to people. And people were super nice and supportive. And what I've found in this town especially is there's this demographic of older gentlemen who are retired who have incredible trade skills, right? And they've had this full life where they've got so much experience, and knowledge and [00:16:00] they're at a spot where they can just take time to help people. Right. And so I've had a lot of older guys who have been so willing to invest their time and energy and knowledge in, into me and my kids and family.

And that is honestly how it's worked. Like that has made it work in our, in my business. I talked to one guy and he's like, oh yeah, I can help you. Let's think like, what do you wanna do? And then they'll, he like devised this entire mooring system, but then he is like, but now you're dealing with thousands and thousands of pounds of anchors and chain.

Now you need to call this guy, this guy He's the closest access point to your farm and he has heavy equipment, like he's got all the pieces of equipment and the pieces to the puzzle that you need in order to get your mooring systems out to your site and deployed. And without ever meeting this man, he agreed to meet with me, sat down with me and my cousin, and made a plan that involved us [00:17:00] hanging out every night in the middle of the night in the dark with headlamps using his heavy equipment, working with the tides, which all were in the middle of the night. Dealing with getting all of these moorings rigged at low tide. And then as the tide came up, it would float the moorings under a little barge that we stuck on top of ecology blocks. And he helped us devise it and then we would wait and then when the tide would come up and float it, then we would start towing it out.

That's the gist of the story is we have two primary big moorings with that involve like big blocks. And then off of them is ground chain with big danforths. And then we run a big cruise line across that to span buoy to buoy. And that's how we secure all of our rafts and structures. Also, like, I, I literally, I, I had no idea what I was doing. I just listened. I obey like, he's like, this is what you do. I was like, okay, I'll do that. And then I do it and it works.

Kevin: What are some of the challenges that you find in [00:18:00] being kind of remote Alaska?

Meta: I don't wanna call myself “remote”, 'cause there are legit remote farmers in Alaska. Yeah. Like if we think about any and every crop that is farmed, there are so many things that are outside of my control, and I think that's really hard. I don't think the remoteness is the thing that is the hardest.

I think that the cost of operating a business in Alaska, is really hard. Like people wanna pay the same price for an Alaskan oyster is they wanna pay for a Washington oyster. But in Washington, you can turn over a market ready product in two years,

And here it's so cold, it takes a long time. And we have to spend so much time touching the oysters. Like when they start in the Flupsy, every single week they get washed and touched and then they get sorted every few weeks and, by the time these oysters go to market, we've touched them somewhere between 16 and 20 times.

Kevin: Yeah, that's a lot of labor and a lot of time, right?

Meta: Yeah. And when I talk [00:19:00] about pulling these stocks, like we're pulling a stack up manually that's 200 pounds and these bags that we're pulling out of the water, 50 pounds soaking wet, and it's like bending over the side of the skiff. It is so physically demanding and laborsome and we're growing something that didn't otherwise grow in Alaska. And we're paying way more for fuel. We're paying way more for shipping. If I order my gear and equipment that is only available from Nanaimo, BC, I have to send it all the way down south to Seattle, 'cause they can't just send it straight to Juneau. It's gotta go all the way down to Seattle. And then it's gotta come all the way back up to Alaska and I have to pay all that freight and all those charges and the fuel surcharge and the cost of fuel and all that stuff. So at any rate, that is challenging, like this expectation that why can I buy Washington oysters for 10 or $12 a dozen? Well, I can't produce an oyster and have a business that is successful at that price because my operating [00:20:00] expenses are so much higher.

Kevin: Yeah.

Meta: The second challenge I'd say is harmful algae.

Kevin: Tell me about the algae and any other diseases that you may,

Meta: So Southeast Alaska has harmful algal blooms. we've had some seasons where we didn't see a single bloom all season. And then we had a season a couple years ago, where we were shut down for 10 weeks out of a 20 week season. Wow. We lost 10 weeks. the farm still has to be operated. Like the work still has to be done, the oysters have to be handled and taken care of. But we ended the season, with no money at all because I had spent it all on labor and new seed and gas and insurance and all the things that it takes to operate the farm. Right. And, so then we spent all winter, every other week, paddle boarding and kayaking out to the farm to go get oysters, to just do little sales here and there around town so that we could at least just help cover some of our [00:21:00] costs.

And right now the other thing, okay, so phytoplankton, it's like we don't feed the oysters. The oysters feed on what is in the water. I don't know if anybody has talked about how horrible this season has been.

Kevin: Tell me about that.

Meta: It's really cold. We had our first sunny day yesterday the water temp was still 47, 48 degrees. And it would normally be almost 60.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

Meta: And because of that, and we've had more rainfall. Like we're talking extreme rain, unseasonably cold temperatures, which means there's no phytoplankton. Which means the oysters aren't growing As fast as they should be. And so, and now we had our first day of sun, and guess what? There's phytoplankton, but it's harmful algae.

Kevin: So, the harmful algae will eventually pass through and after a certain period of time, the oysters, will then be fit to market?

Meta: Yeah, they're fine. The oysters love it, actually, I think it's their [00:22:00] favorite type of phytoplankton because they are never fatter and happier than when there is a, a harmful algal bloom. Like they, there's no, there's no room for liquor in their cup. They just like plump up and it's all meat, no liquor, like to the brim.

And so I swear that they're like, I think it's their favorite, but for us, like we have a minimum of a two week closure. And really the timeline depends on mother nature. Like we don't know how long a bloom is gonna last. And we do phytoplankton tows with a tow net, and then we have a microscope at the farm that the kids are trained on.

And so they'll do water tows and, and look at the water. And now that we're seeing cells, we'll, like, pretty much look daily, but we don't sell product unless we have it tested through the state. Right. So, today they saw, 15 cells and I was like, okay, don't harvest anything. let's hope it passes and it's gone. Uh, literally all it took was one [00:23:00] sunny day though. How frustrating is that?

Kevin: Yeah. Especially when you've been waiting so long for it.

Meta: Yeah, we had really good over winter growth 'cause it was such a terrible winter too. Our weather, we've had a real rough year for weather, winter. We didn't get any snow and it was just like me, like rainy and dark. And so because it was so mild, we actually did have over winter growth on the oysters, but then we like pulled and harvested all those and we should be turning over oysters in within four to six weeks. Like what, what was culled out and, and deemed not quite ready for market after a month to six weeks should be ready.

Well, we're going through all that stuff that we had culled out after our initial sort and we're like it, it didn't grow. It's been down there for like four to six weeks, but there isn't any food and the water temps are so cold. So anyhow. What could contribute is that, like at the end of the season, we had a harmful algal bloom. and so I shut down the farm for the season in [00:24:00] September. But like winter hadn't started and so. Part of that over winter growth is everything that happened from September to November. But generally farmers see a lot of growth September, October, and even into November sometimes. Really? And the growth that we saw, like our, usually like we would count growth as like a toenail, like this, like frilly edge. Mm-hmm. And this season, weirdly enough, strangely enough, we weren't seeing this frilly edge. We were actually seeing the cup had all this new growth that was like, I'd say at least an inch from winter. And it was so brittle that you could see through the shell. So the first part of our season we like sorted all these oysters and we were like, they can't go to market. Like no chef is gonna be able to shuck 'em. They're just gonna like crumble. So we, spent the first part of our season trying to get all these oysters that were big hardened and ready to sell. And now we sold through all those [00:25:00] and … These are my challenges.

Kevin: So tell me a little bit about your oysters.

Meta: Okay, so the primary seed source is stems from Hawaiian shellfish and they produce, they like actually propagate the oysters, but then also I buy seed from Jamestown at Point Whippy and we bought seed in the past from Blue Star in Alaska and he has a flupsy that's much bigger than ours. And so he would grow it in the flupsy and then send it out as juveniles to farmers. Um, there was a a, a co-op in Nockity that had a flupsy. We bought seed from them. Um, and then this season, Hog Island got added to the list of certified seed sources. So we bought from Hog Island this season and they've been great to work with. That's been nice.

Kevin:So I'm trying to picture what your production rate is like in terms of how many oysters are you successfully growing to market,

Meta: I guess I'll start with our [00:26:00] first batch of seed that we ever bought was 30,000 oysters. Okay. And we got those, that seed in August of 2018, and by April of 2020, we had just started selling our first, oysters. And then each season there after from 2018, the 2019, we started seeding more and more. So we seeded a hundred thousand and then 200,000 and then 450,000. And, and just each year, last year we seeded, close to 700,000 oysters Wow. Between epilepsy and the farm. And we now have well over a million oysters on our farm.

Mortality is an, is an interesting topic amongst farmers. Because I think when you use the term mortality, it's kind of implied that you have like this, this die off that happens because there's something wrong with your seed. But generally speaking, we don't see a lot of mortality or die off. That's not been a thing. We, we kill oysters from handling. Like we'll run it through the tumbler [00:27:00] and it'll get caught in a hole and then it'll get whacked and cracked. or we'll have oysters that don't grow and don't perform, where after a few years we're like. I’m not interested in continuing to nurture them because we've already poured so much in that we're finally like, I think we need to just cull out the fastest and best performing oysters. We have enough now on our site that focusing on, on nurturing the oysters that we can get to market within three to four years is our priority. 'Cause I don't wanna spend seven, eight years trying to get an oyster to market and often they just get denser and people, even though they should really value a really dense, meaty oyster, this perception that size is like really important. But we primarily focus on a petite boutique oyster because our site is so small.

Kevin: They're all Pacifics I presume? You're not using any Japanese strains like Kumamotos or anything like that on your farm?

Meta: No, we're doing Pacifics. Um, [00:28:00] Miyagi and Midori. But yeah, we just get Pacific oysters.

Kevin: How large typically is a petite oyster from your farm?

Meta: Two and a half to three and a half inches. Okay.

Kevin: Right.

Meta: But like heavy, it needs to be heavy and meaty. Right. We're not talking like a little brittle, no meat oyster. It needs to be a shooter. So I think it's at a European size, five. We focus on a, boutique petite oyster that is like perfect for raw bar. Mm-hmm. You know, half shell.

 Kevin: Is that your primary market is the half shell market as opposed to canning

Meta: No, we don't have the volume even still, like, we're trying so hard to get enough volume that we can have, other branded oysters. It's been challenging to keep up with demand and like If we have oysters that are sellable, we need to sell 'em.

Kevin: Yeah, and it's taking how long typically to grow an oyster to market from your flupsy?

Meta: Well, now that we're doing the Flupsy it adds a whole, whole season. It [00:29:00] used to be two and a half. If we were to buy the seed from another farmer that had already spent, you know, six, eight months with it, then we could turn it over in two and a half years. But now we're at definitely at three to four years.

Kevin: How would you describe the flavor profile?

Meta: Our oysters are really clean and crisp and they have a sweet finish. They are salty, like so briny. They're really good. I love 'em with some lemon or, shallots and vinegar or Tabasco. I mean, I just love them. They're so delicious.

Kevin: Now I've looked through your website and social media and you've got a lot of amazing photographs. I'll include links in the show notes so people can easily find you. But the through-line that I saw was this image of just youthful joy in doing what you do. Like you've got all these kids and I don't know if [00:30:00] they're just your kids or other young people who are getting dirty and muddy and happy as hell, and handling the oysters and leaning over the water and, you know, going through your images makes me smile about the kind of work you're doing. So I want to hear a little bit more about the role that your kids play in the farm and, what your dream and maybe even their dreams are, for the future of that.

Meta: So the crew is made up of me and my two sons, and then we have, a family friend who's, started with us before we even had oysters that we could sell, she was out there helping us. That's Anita. And then, her boyfriend Chaz is working with us this summer. And basically we have a handful of young people and I try to find young people who, don't mind having wet hands. They don't mind working hard. [00:31:00] So, in an ideal world, I would have all high school swim teams. So they're all like really proficient swimmers and they have really good upper body strength and they're strong. That's my ideal. And so Anita's a swimmer. Chaz is a swimmer. My niece Maggie worked with us. She was a swimmer. Gotta love the swimmers. They're like such hard workers and so strong and if they fall in the water, you don't have to worry about them. Right.

I think what happened was that I was a woman with kids, which made me approachable and safe. And then if my kids are working there, then other kids wanna work there. And it was a great opportunity for young people to get a job. and it was a job that we, we felt a lot of joy and pride in what we were doing and joyful work seems to breed joyful people and It kind of like builds on itself. and we try to find people who kind of fit with our vibe and are okay with doing.

Sometimes not fun manual labor, but they're just people who are generally happy and like working hard and find the work satisfying, right? There's a level of [00:32:00] satisfaction to what we do and a level of satisfaction to working your body till you're just like dog tired at the end of the day and you feel like you did something and you're outside all day long, which also feels really good.

Rain or shine at the end of the day it feels good to have worked hard and spent the day outdoors. We also got lucky because we, when we were trying to understand harmful algae in the beginning, we reached out to the university 'cause they'd been studying water and the university connected us with students that were coming out and helping out at the farm and doing water tows. So essentially they would come out, do a water tow, but then they'd stay with us for the day and work and volunteer. And then the university, started bringing in young people and then it just sort of spiraled into all these really young, happy kind of badass kids. It's like the vibe became that, and then that's what we drew in and it, I didn't anticipate that. Like I didn't know that that was gonna be a part of what happened. And it did, and it happened so organically and it's just kind of created this really awesome farm family and like group of young people that [00:33:00] work with us that like working with us. And we always have people reaching out, asking for jobs or if we're available. And so it's been a huge bonus. Our kids feel such a sense of pride. They get to work with other young people and I'm sending them all out.

So in the mornings we meet and do crew meeting at the house, and I go over like the plan for the day. They have a lot of bandwidth to decide what they prioritize and how they prioritize it. But this time of year, I hand it over to them and I, I meet with them every morning and every afternoon when they get back and we talk about how things went. If there was any problems, what the priorities need to be. You know, they write really good notes in a notebook every day about what they did. We have color flagging and organization systems so we know exactly what volume we have of what and what was touched when and what will be ready when. And so we try to keep things really organized and I create the systems and then they maintain 'em. And then it allows me to go back through, we call it our little [00:34:00] bible. And like even yesterday they were like, the oysters aren't growing. And I just was able to go back through and reread all of their notes. All of my notes, and like, here, there's this and there's that. When I go back through our notes, It's helpful.

Kevin: I can only think that you're inspiring kids to one day take up aquaculture as a lifestyle and a vocation themselves, but what you're really doing is you're. giving them the independence of thought and decision making within the structure of your farm, and you're teaching them life skills that go way beyond growing oysters.

Meta: Oh, totally. Yeah. No, that part is amazing. I see how it's shaped my kids and all the kids that work at the farm, and I feel like they're so confident and capable, like they're so capable, and I don't just bring in green people and set them loose. Mm-hmm. Like I, the new people that we have, they spend the first few months with me training with me and working with me side by side, and then when the crew comes on for the season, like Emmett and Anita and [00:35:00] Kai, then when I set them all loose, I set them loose with people that I have trained so that they're not having to train somebody brand new. Right, And then all these people then go out and work together and Yeah, I feel like they are very confident and very capable. And it does build confidence and grit. Um, I also though, when I'm hiring, I pick people that I could see. Like Lady Gloria, who we love, and I can't imagine our team without her now, but she had worked on Tugboats for the last two years. She has her a hundred ton captain's license. I don't even know that she's 21 yet. But like, I seek out and I draw in people like that for my business. Like she wants to work with a woman who empowers women. And so like, I try to pick people that are gonna be family oriented and and strong and capable and reliable.

Kevin: Do you think that, your own kids, Emmett and Kai, are going to run the business someday and take on a lifestyle [00:36:00] like this?

Meta: I think that the business is gonna shape who they become in a way that will be incredibly unique and valuable for them. And I see that already. I see the goal of my business being to provide my kids with this incredibly unique opportunity so that when they're like filling out their college applications, they have this thing to talk about and write about, that's provided them with such a unique set of skills and like the understanding and ability to know how to fix things, to run boats and do repairs and like, I just think there's so much value in what they're doing, but also like, my son Emmett, wants to go to med school. I'm not gonna stop him from going to med school and say he has to run a farm. No. The purpose of the farm isn't for my kids to become farmers. That is not the intention of the farm. The purpose of the farm is to shape my kids into people that are incredibly well-rounded and successful and gritty and not afraid of hard work and not afraid to step out and do things that are way [00:37:00] outside of their comfort zone. Right? Like, I want them to know and understand what it means to be able to do something just because they can. Even if, I don't know, go take the trip, go sail around the world. Go, go do that thing. And I want them to understand that their life can be what they make it. It just takes making a decision. The rest is just work and they know how to do the work. You know what I mean?

Kevin: It's a gift that, whether they know it or not, right now, will be thanking you for the rest of their lives.

Meta: Yes.

Kevin: The one word, that keeps coming back as I listen to you is Family. And not just family of your own three kids, but the family you're creating and these young people who you're inspiring and the things you're teaching them.

Meta: That is, that's a hundred percent what it is. And I. I feel that like every day I sit and watch, are they coming home? I want 'em to come home. And that's when the crew gets back. I'm always so excited. I can't imagine not being here to check in and talk to 'em and stuff. And actually I have another boat here at the house that I go run out on the regular and go check on the crew and help support 'em. And I, I'm basically [00:38:00] floating from one group, like either it's the flupsy or the processing here at the house, and then the crew out at the farm, I try to get out and support them a few days a week and anyhow. But they all are like a little extension of our family.

Kevin: Yeah. how do you distribute your oysters?

Meta: We sell, wholesale and we sell direct. And then beyond that, we sell to restaurants around town. you know, our primary goal is to sell to Juneau. Like we, we would like to keep our product in Juneau, however, we have buyers from all over. and we love our relationships with our buyers from down south. When I say Juneau though, I'm kind of also encompassing like the whole region,

Kevin: What kind of expansion plans do you have or where do you see yourself in let's say five years?

Meta: Oh, well part of me is like, how long can I do repetitive [00:39:00] manual labor before my body is like, Uhuh, you're done, you know? And so when I think about my business once my kids get to the point where they're not working with me, I don't know that I wanna keep going. So my big deliberation right now is my daughter is 11 and I'm like, she really needs to work at the farm. Like, I want that for her. But whether or not I own the farm or one of my former employees owns the farm, I guess I'm kind of waiting to see what happens. Part of me feels like it would be good, to sell the farm within the next four years. Mm-hmm. Before my oldest son, you know, like by the time he, if he does, I don't know. We'll see. I think probably, I don't know, this is a really hard question. It depends on the day. It depends if I'm having a harmful algal bloom or a sore back or…

 Kevin: What is the worst part of your job? Because no matter what your job is there's a certain piece of that job that sucks What is that for you?

[00:40:00] Oh, sometimes we have buyers that are not nice. And that's hard because I'm like, wow, wow. You're like really not nice to work with. And then I don't know what to do. 'cause I'm like, I also really wanna get paid, but I really don't, think that you're very nice. Uh, that's hard. and then the other thing that is really hard is I think sometimes the stress of like, am I gonna shut down? I don't like when I get shut down and then I have to call all of my buyers. And a lot of them are totally understanding and sweet. It's really stressful to me.

The harmful algae is hard. Um, and I'm trying to manage the stress of it 'cause I can't control it. Um, Those are the two hardest things, honestly. It's not the actual manual labor. I love that part.

Kevin: And what is your favorite part of doing what you do?

Meta: A handful of different things. The things I'm most passionate about are one, my team. I love my [00:41:00] team and I love putting together and like building a group of people that are just so supportive of each other and just wonderful to work with. And then I love my product. I feel really passionately about our oysters I love them. Like I remember an oyster at the table that I touch, and then I'll see it again in the processing room. And It's not like I am mindlessly going through them. Like I am looking at every single oyster that we pack and I remember how many times I've touched this oyster in its life and like practically has a name, a social security number. And it, I do think that it shows

And then I really love a good sunny day in Alaska, being out on the water. I love standing at the sorting table and sorting oysters all day. I love dropping all that clean gear in the water after everything's been tumbled and washed and restocked by size. And you get it back in the water and it's just like, you can sit and see the oysters. They like open up and feed. And I, that stuff is so satisfying to me.

Kevin: That's beautiful. Well, Meta, I have to thank you for your time and [00:42:00] for sharing the story of Salty Lady Seafood. And in addition to growing your oysters you have capitalized on the human side of oyster growing with your crew and the kids. Thank you so much for sharing it.

Meta: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Kevin: Well, that's it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks so much to my guest Meta Mesdag. Images of Salty Lady Seafood Company's farm and the young people who operate it can be seen on its website, which is linked in the show notes, so definitely check it out. If you like this episode or wanna say anything about it, please leave a comment to let me know. I read every one. And please follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts. The more followers we get, the more others will discover us too. Thanks so much for listening, and be sure to join us again next time when we pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.

[bubbles]