Episode 31: James Crimp of Alaska Sea Grant - Oyster farming partnerships at their best

James Crimp of Alaska Sea Grant - Oyster farming partnerships at their best

In this episode of OYSTER-ology, Kevin interviews James Crimp, the Shellfish Mariculture Specialist at Alaska Sea Grant. James provides an in-depth look into his role, focusing on research and education to support the oyster industry in Alaska. He shares insights from his background, growing up in a commercial fishing family in Anchorage, to his experience in Maine, working with lobster and kelp farming. James discusses the challenges and opportunities in Alaska's oyster farming, including the logistics of remote farming, market development, and dealing with harmful algal blooms. He highlights the potential for growth in the oyster industry and the importance of community support and sustainable practices. The conversation also touches on the unique characteristics of Alaskan oysters and future plans for expanding the industry. Throughout the conversation James expresses an infectious youthful optimism, a deep passion for his job and his belief in the bright future of the Alaskan oyster industry.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:13 Role and Responsibilities at Alaska Sea Grant

01:15 Personal Background and Journey

03:13 Experience in Maine and Transition to Alaska

06:53 Current Work and Projects in Alaska

09:48 Challenges and Opportunities in Alaska's Oyster Farming

19:16 Travel and Logistics in Alaska

21:05 State of the Oyster Industry in Alaska

29:53 Future Prospects and Conclusion

Links:

Alaska Sea Grant website (https://alaskaseagrant.org/)

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Transcript

James Crimp of Alaska Sea Grant - Oyster farming partnerships at their best

[00:00:00] 

[bubbles]

James: In Alaska, our oyster farms are so remote that when there's somebody in, a really remote community on Prince of Wales Island that wants to start an oyster farm, it's not super easy for them to track down all of the resources, that are available to do anything from, get a loan, to deciding what the best oyster gear, they should use at their farm is, or trying to navigate the sometimes complex state leasing process. So, I'm really excited just helping these new entrants to get started on the right course. which can save you a lot of, grief and trouble in your first couple years 

[bubbles]

Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters, aquaculture, and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host in the Foodwalker, Kevin Cox. In my never-ending quest of venture far and wide, to invite OYSTER-ology guests to talk about this oyster and oyster-adjacent world. [00:01:00] I've had some inspiring Alaskans discuss the realities of oyster farming in America's Last Frontier. But it's not just oyster farmers who are responsible for creating the increasingly vibrant and exciting Alaskan oyster culture. It's also those who are there by their sides to support, educate, and train Alaskan pioneers in this growing industry. And that includes my guest, James Crimp, the Shellfish Mariculture specialist with Alaska Sea Grant, an organization whose noble mission is to enhance the sustainable use in conservation of Alaska's marine coastal, and watershed resources through research, education, and extension.

James's duties in this important supportive role are to expand opportunities for shellfish mariculture in Alaska through industry-driven research and education around the entire state, which, as you know, is very large and pretty remote. In our conversation, James describes where he came from, how he landed this coveted role, fresh out of a master's program, and what he does when [00:02:00] traveling on ferries and little planes all over Alaska.

From finfish to lobsters, scallops, abalone and even kelp, James brings far reaching knowledge of creatures in the sea, and he takes that knowledge to both new and seasoned farmers helping to educate, train, and introduce new techniques, which will help make their oyster farming lives a little easier. But James humbly explains that in doing his work, he often finds himself more the student than the teacher of the people he supports, and he wouldn't expect it to be any other way.

So pack your waterproof travel bag and check your ego at the gate as we hear about remote farming in Alaska; learning to listen to the experts; the relationship between abalone and kelp; the State of the Oyster; toxic algal blooms; being schooled by your students; oyster seed security; bacon-eating bald eagles and gaining the trust of people you want to support, with marine biologist, fisherman, [00:03:00] educator, researcher, and infectiously enthusiastic shellfish mariculturist, James Crimp.

 [bubbles]

Kevin: James. Crimp, it is so great to have you as a guest on OYSTER-ology. Thank you so much for being here. and you're in Juneau, Alaska, is that right?

James: That's correct, yep.

Kevin: So, I know that you are with Sea Grant Alaska, but I don't know if that's the right way to call it. Is it Alaska Sea Grant? Sea Grant, Alaska?

James: It is Alaska Sea Grant. That is true.

Kevin: Oh, okay, and tell me what you do with Alaska Sea Grant. 

James: Yeah, so I am, our Shellfish Mariculture Specialist. So my role is, I do research and I do education, primarily with the oyster industry up here, to solve issues they're having on their farm or, help them explore new avenues. And then my education work is, helping new oyster farmers get [00:04:00] started helping existing oyster farmers to expand to a new gear type or tackle an emerging issue, be it disease or whatever else. Um, so yeah, I work with shellfish growers across the state of Alaska, which, uh, is a pretty big state. So it's a, it's a fun and it very rewarding job. 

Kevin: What brought you to where you are right now doing this work? 

James: Yeah, so I was, I grew up in, in Anchorage, Alaska. Um, grew up in a commercial fishing family. my folks used to live in Dillingham, Alaska, which is out in Bristol Bay. Uh, which, which has the largest sockeye salmon run in the world.

So I grew up set netting or gill netting for sockeye salmon out there. Um, it's a really interesting fishery actually that I still, still, uh, continue to do today. It's a really short run where we're this massive amount of sockeye, um, push up from the ocean into these rivers and we catch 'em along the way.

 I, I decided to go to college in Maine, wanted to [00:05:00] get outta the state, but also was really keen on, staying close to the coast somewhere. I think moving to the, you know, the center of the United States to the desert somewhere would've been really weird for me, uh, and so 

Kevin: Not a lot of sockeye salmon around there. 

James: Yeah. Yeah. Not a lot of, any marine critters. So going to Maine um, I had some family there and, uh, I was lucky enough to have. One of my, uh, housemates, Amelia Campbell, her dad is a lobster fisherman up on North Haven Island, which is an island about halfway up the coast of Maine. A really cool, small community really reminded me a lot of Alaska, these kind of tiny remote communities. And her dad, yeah, both fish for lobster and scallops, but also had an oyster farm up there. And I never, you had heard of a fisherman also farming, in the ocean. You know, like growing up in Alaska, I, I think I had a friends, don't let friends eat farm salmon bumper sticker on my, my CRV growing up and, uh, [00:06:00] you know, every, it is all about wild caught fisheries.

Um, but the more I learned about oyster farming and also the fact that you could do both, at the same time, the more excited about the concept I got and when I graduated college, decided it was something I wanted to explore more. and I got a job at, this nonprofit in the coast of Maine called the Island Institute, and The Island Institute, in, in a lot of ways, it's kind of like a nonprofit version of Sea Grant. They, their, their mission was, to further coastal sustainability along the coast of Maine. Um, and they, they did that in a variety of ways. But we had a, a marine programs team, and my job there was to help lobster fishermen to diversify their income by starting either seaweed or shellfish farms.

And the reason for that was that, you know, Maine fishermen used to fish for all sorts of different species. Um, you know, they used to fish for lobster scallops. they would maybe fish for ground fish, um, you know, might fish for five or six species throughout the season. And that gave 'em a [00:07:00] lot of kind of resilience to, market shifts or, stock shifts, kind of whatever else.

But over the years, it seems lobster has really became the. The primary fishery in the Gulf of Maine. It's, you know, what makes up the bulk of the commercial fisheries landings in Maine. There's just been gotten to be a lot more lobster in the coast of Maine. Um, you know, maybe that's environmental shifts. There's also been a really great, job. Done by the fishermen there to, conserve and promote the fisheries to throw back, um, females with eggs.

And so that's really improved the stocks over the years. And, also the value too. I think lobster over the years has gotten, has gained more of a reputation is this delicacy. So now you've got more landings and a higher price, um, that, that make it just a really, really lucrative fisheries. for folks out there. But at the same time, it's a lot harder, especially to fish for groundfish out there. you always hear about cod stocks in the Gulf of [00:08:00] Maine, really going down in the, the nineties. And so yeah, it was a combination of both of those things. But as a result, you know, everyone's dependent on lobster.And then we were worried that if there was some sort of crash in market or in stocks of lobster, um, you know, it could lead to a coast that was really struggling. And so the Island Institute, and others on the coast of Maine saw that and wanted to get ahead of it and saw seaweed and shellfish farming as a really cool way to use that maritime culture and, diversify these on the water incomes, through farming.Yeah.

Kevin: It sounds to me like you kind of further specialized in shellfish or oyster. Is that the direction you found yourself heading in? 

James: I did. Yeah. I, I, so through this program I helped fishermen to start, um, oyster Farms for sure. Also mussel farms. Um, scallop farms was, is kind of an emerging industry in the coast of Maine. And then also, [00:09:00] um, one that I, that I ended up doing a lot of work in was also kelp farming too.

Right. Um, and that was a industry that was really kind of in its infancy when I was living in Maine, but grew a lot over the time that I was there. And really worked out well with the lobster fishing season in particular because it's a winter crop that you can grow, you know, you could fish lobsters from June to October and then you could grow kelp from October through May, um, and you could, you know, keep your crew around and, and make some money in that off season.

Right. So, yeah, I worked at, I worked at the Island Institute, um, you know, learned a lot about all of the kind of aquacultured species in the coast of Maine. And then I actually transitioned to working for a kelp farming business for three years after that, called Atlantic Sea Farms. So yeah, learned a lot about shellfish and seaweed and then kind of went down the, the seaweed path for three years and now, um, coming back to Alaska, ended up with this position. So I'm very much back on the shellfish side of things. 

Kevin: There's a fair amount of kelp farming in Alaska as well, isn't there?

James: There is, yep. [00:10:00] it's, it's also a really kind of growing, exciting industry up here. Um, we've got, yeah, several colleagues at Sea Grant that also work in Mariculture. and I also still work with some kelp farmers on some fraud projects, but, but yeah, SEA Grant is also very involved in growing the kelp industry in Alaska too.

Kevin: So did you make an affirmative decision that you wanted to head back to Alaska or did you follow, an opportunity? 

James: I did. it was one of those COVID decisions ah, where COVID happens and you're like, oh, you know, I need to rethink my whole life right in the middle of a pandemic. Um, which, I don't know if that was wise or not, but I am happy it led me back here. But, um, I'd been in Maine for 10 years and love the heck outta Maine and realized that if I'd never, if I didn't make the decision to up and leave, I would just stay there for the rest of my life, which wouldn't be bad except for the fact that all my family's back here in the west coast. My, my folks live in Homer, Alaska, and my brother lives in [00:11:00] Washington, is, ends up in, in the state a lot too. So, um, just, you know, being that far away from family in the midst of a pa a pandemic was, was tough. 

Kevin: Yeah. and where in Alaska now are you living in? 

James: I live in Juneau, Alaska, which is, our state capital our third biggest city in the, in the state with a remarkable 30,000 people. Um, so we're in South with the region that's called Southeast Alaska. Closest to British Columbia. Yeah. Um, Closest down towards the rest of the United States. And so that's one of the regions where there's a lot of oyster farming in the state. And then there's also farming up in, south Central and Kodiak, too.

Kevin: There's a lot of oyster farming along in Homer too, and along like Homer spit in that whole area, isn't there?

James: There is, yeah, that is kind of, I think that's there in Southeast were some of the, the first areas that people started oyster farming in the state and yeah, so Kachemak Bay is the bay that Homer is in, right? And they've [00:12:00] got, uh, some of the, the bigger oyster growers in the state, and probably a good maybe 10 farms or so um, up in, up in that bay 

Kevin: I was, spending some time trying to, find and view as many bald eagles as I could in the Pacific Northwest. And I talked to somebody and they said, if you wanna see bald eagles, like the bald eagle capital of the world is the dumpster behind the McDonald's in Homer Alaska.

James: You know, that is very true. I was, uh, there visiting my parents and I helped them do a dump run. And, and uh, we pulled up and there was just this eagle on the perch of the, the place where you dump off your trash and it had a whole slab of bacon in its mouth. And I was like, wow! And it was like, that is such a great, great America picture right there. 

Kevin: Yeah, that's right. Okay. So tell me a little bit about how you got involved with Alaska Sea Grant and also tell me a little bit about Alaska Sea Grant. What do they do, what is their [00:13:00] mission and that sort of thing. 

James: How I got here I would say is, back when I was in Maine, I interacted with Maine Sea Grant a lot. So there are 34 State Sea grant programs um, in pretty much all coastal states. And, um, so Maine has a great Sea Grant program and I got to interact with them a lot. And, um, especially a fellow named Dana Morris, he's been doing my job in Maine for decades and is just a, an institution there.

Um, but working with him and working with other folks in Maine Sea Grant just got to show how impactful this program can be to, to coastal communities and always kind of had an eye for if there was a, a chance to work in a sea grant program in the future. It'd definitely be something I'd be interested in. And when I got back up to Alaska, I moved in the middle of the pandemic and I figured out it was maybe a good time to go to graduate school. I'd been putting it off forever. And, had a friend that is a professor here, in [00:14:00] Juneau, and, she had some funding and let me do research on whatever my heart desired.

Um, I, or originally was planning on focusing on trying to cultivate our local species of scallop here. The Weathervane Scallop to kind of match what, what has been happening in Maine and then realize that that was probably not a very tenable thing to study in a two year masters because they live, 50 or more meters below the surface and are really tough to get organisms for a research project. Um, so I ended up actually switching over to, a project looking at cultivating our local species of abalone, which is a really, exciting kind of candidate species for aquaculture up here in Alaska. Um, if you look at abalone farms in, in China or Korea, they grow them in the ocean right alongside kelp farms, and abalone actually consume kelp.

So what they do is they drive their boats over to the kelp farms, just fill up their boats. There are these big barges with kelp and then drive over to the abalone and then plop the kelp on top of the abalone. So, um, yeah, was [00:15:00] curious about kind of replicating that model in Alaska where we have a lot of space for both abalone and kelp farms, and there's a lot of interest in kelp cultivation.

Kevin: Right. 

James: So yeah, I did a master's looking at that for a couple years. and it was really a great opportunity for me to network throughout the state of Alaska and meet a lot of the folks that worked for Alaska Sea Grant. And then, as I was graduating, a job popped up and, and I jumped on it.

Kevin:And that was the job you currently have right now? 

James: That was the job I currently had. Yeah. Shellfish mariculture specialist, which I started the position, I started back last September. 

Kevin: So what does a shellfish mariculture specialist do? 

James: So, at Alaska Sea Grant we have a staff of about 25 different folks and we have, um, kind of the staff that, that does a lot of things across the program, communications and um, uh, program management and stuff like that. But then we have what we call our, our Sea Grant faculty. And our faculty is broken down into two sort of divisions. [00:16:00] One is we have, uh, they're called marine advisory program agents and they're sort of generalists, which are stationed, or which live in communities like. Very coastal dependent communities throughout the state, such as Nome or Dillingham, um, or Petersburg. Places where there's not a whole lot of kind of community capacity, or they're very small communities that these generalists work across a variety of areas just to respond to community needs. Um, and, you know, some might do work in energy or might do work in subsistence fisheries, uh, you name it, kind of whatever they're hearing from that community, um, they need assistance with.

So that's half of our faculty, um, at Sea Grant. Then the other half or so are specialists and they are folks that work across, different communities throughout the state on a certain topic area. So we [00:17:00] have fishery specialists, that might go from community, community to help new entrants to fisheries get started, um, lead marine safety trainings, lead crew classes, that sort of thing. Um, and then we, we have like education specialists that help lead environmental education in schools. Um, but then I'm a mariculture specialist, so my specialty is, is shellfish mariculture. So, uh, yeah, like I said, about half of my position is, is more education oriented, and then the other half of my position is, is research oriented.

Um, so for the education side, basically all the work I, I do, we try to make it responsive to the needs of the industry. Uh, a lot of that is just making sure I'm well connected with farmers throughout the state. Uh, one thing I just really like to do is just go out and spend a day working with a farmer whenever I can manage it 'cause that's the best way to connect with them. 'cause they're so dang busy all the time. But, um, just kind of hear what, [00:18:00] what they're struggling with, what they're excited about, and then develop programs from there. So some of the, the education side programs that. I have helped to start, have been, something as, basic as we, we helped to put on an OSHA certified forklift training for oyster farmers on Prince of Wales Island.Things that are really basic like that to maybe like a harmful algal bloom monitoring training. Um, we've been helping farmers throughout the state to learn the techniques to actually monitor the water around their farms for Alexandrium cells. And then, uh, if there are a high level of cells in the water, maybe preemptively stop their harvest to avoid, um, you know, being shut down for a mandatory three weeks by the state of Alaska.

So projects like that or then another thing I do a lot is working with new entrants to oyster farming. And, you know, that's a, that's. In Alaska, you know, we've, our oyster farms are so remote that when there's [00:19:00] somebody in, uh, in let's say Naukity Bay, which is a really remote community on Prince of Wales Island that wants to start an oyster farm, it's not necessarily super easy for them to track down all of the resources, um, that are available to them to do anything from, you know, get a loan, uh, to deciding what the best oyster gear, uh, they should use at their farm is, or, um, you know, evaluating where they should cite their farm or trying to navigate the sometimes complex state leasing process.

So, um, I'm really excited. In this coming September, I'm gonna lead just kind of a oyster farm operations training, which will, which will bring a bunch of new farmers or, you know, people that are in the leasing process or just started a farm to, um, one community on Prince of Wales Island where there is just a whole bunch of oyster farming going on, and there's five different gear [00:20:00] types and five different farms that you can visit all within a day. Wow. Um, and just helping these new entrants to, to get started on the right, on the right course. Um, which can I think, you know, save you a lot of, uh, grief and, and trouble in your first couple years if you just get exposed to as much, um, experienced farmers as you can.

Kevin: Do you find that there are a lot of new oyster farmer entrants in Alaska these days? Is this something that's exploding there? Like it is so in so many places in the lower 48, 

James: There are a lot. Yeah. I, I wasn't actually sure when I started this position, how many there would be, but I think I've got a list of 20 folks that I think would be Okay. A great fit for this training I'm leading and, similar to Maine. Fisheries have seen some, upheaval, in the last decade or so, and people that really, my commercial vision business two years ago, we got paid 65 cents a pound for our salmon, and that was like [00:21:00] really a struggle for people that are making their living so slowly off of salmon So I think that people look to oyster farming as kind of a hopeful aspect of the marine economy and something that they maybe have a little bit more control over, 'cause you're cultivating this crop. You're not, um, as exposed as sort of like natural fluctuations in, in stocks. And, as oyster farming is just kind of becoming more popular, more well known throughout the state. Yeah. And the more people hear about it, the more excited they're about it.

Kevin: How would you describe the relationship between you and what you do and individual farmers? 

James: Yeah. Well, first of all, I would say I'm, I'm probably the one that's being taught more than teaching them at the moment. But, uh, we're not a regulatory body by any means. You know, our role is to, help basically connect research taking place at the university and the federal level to growers, to improve their businesses. So we're all about helping respond to their needs. And, what [00:22:00] we're shooting for is kind of a partnership where, they can look to us as. A resource for whatever's going on with them, um, whatever they need assistance with. Um, we're associated with the University of Alaska rather than with Alaska Department of Fish and Game or any sort of regulatory body like that.,

Kevin: Right it sounds like you spend a lot of time traveling around to different remote parts of Alaska to meet the farmers and see the waters. Uh, tell me a little bit about how you get around and how that works for you.

James: Yeah, definitely a lot of travel that comes with this job. Um, you know, when you start a job, you're so excited for a job that allows you to travel. and then when you're outta your home every, other week, it, it can, it can be a lot, but, uh, but it's really just, there's such great communities around the state that are always fun to get to. But yeah. Juneau, where I live has a, I think we have maybe a 50 mile road system that doesn't leave the city of Juneau. Uh, we can't get to any other towns from [00:23:00] Juneau. . Um, we have the the Alaska Marine Highway system. Throughout, Southeast Alaska, which. Allows us to travel to, some other Alaskan communities, although generally it's just a lot of plane travel. Um, it'll be taking Alaska Airways to whatever the closest hub is, to a place that I'm trying to get to be it Ketchican or Anchorage, and then maybe a smaller ferry to get over to Prince of Wales Island or little runway bound planes that, that take you where you need to go.

Kevin: One of the things that I'm curious about, is. what it's like to try and farm oysters in such remote areas of Alaska and, how do you support those challenges for farmers that are, way out in Nockity Bay or somewhere else?

James: Yeah, that is definitely, A tricky part of growing oysters in Alaska, and yeah, getting your oysters from that tiny community to market can be tough. And [00:24:00] so, so just figuring out those challenges and think on a case by case basis is what we can do. 

Kevin: With all of the, your very close involvement with farmers and also with the science and the research and education of it, what would you say is the State of the Oyster in Alaska these days? It's kind of State of the Union, but for oysters. 

James: I think the State of the Oyster is pretty bright. You know, you talk to established growers, and they're, they're just really excited about, the industry and the growth potential of it. I, I think this industry, you know, might not see exponential growth. but I think it's just gonna see steady continuous growth for the coming years. It's just such a great product. Yeah. And you know, just whenever you're growing a product like that, it just kind of speaks for itself and you know that this has a lot of legs to succeed. 

Kevin: It sounds to me like most of the Alaska farmers [00:25:00] are their principle markets are in Alaska or travelers to Alaska and that sort of thing. Do you have much to do with helping them develop markets to distribute their product? 

James: Not, not too much at the moment. You know, I think it's little things like, you know, I know that, Island Air and Cloak is a community where a lot of oysters get shipped out of, and they're talking about getting a cold storage facility at that airport. And supporting little things like that that can really help with the logistics. Yeah. could be key in furthering Alaska markets. Um, so yeah, seeing what we can do, you know, being opportunistic about areas, little areas that can make a big difference and we can plug in on is, is kind of what, what I'm looking for.

Kevin: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about, toxic algae blooms associated with oyster growing in Alaska. 

James: Yeah. So harvest algal blooms are definitely a, a big. thing that the industry up here has [00:26:00] to deal with, like in a lot of oyster growing areas throughout the country. Um, I think the difference up here is that we are so spread out that, it is pretty tough for the state to get around that much to, to test all these different growing waters. So what growers do instead is a very super safe, program where every batch of oysters that they're gonna send out to market, they have to send into the state's pathology lab where it gets tested for paralytic, shellfish, toxins, right?

And then, um, has to come in below a certain parts per thousand. And then if. Uh, if it doesn't, if it's over that limit, then that oyster farm has to be shut down for three weeks and then get a certain number of clean tests before their product can get sold. So it's a very rigorous, method for ensuring that, no harmful algal, bloom affected oysters make it to market.

Kevin: Mm-hmm. 

James: One of the research components I'm really interested in is trying to [00:27:00] understand harmful algal bloom dynamics, throughout the state and you know, the dynoflagelate that causes this toxin is such a mysterious thing and it's, um, hard to understand when it's gonna appear.

But there's some research that's coming out allowing growers to maybe predict it a little bit better than they currently can. Or also sort of helping growers to, use new tests that have come onto the market that can, uh. test the toxicity right there on their farms, is another kind of area of, of interest for research. But, um, in general, I think that system's working pretty well. And then past that, I think that Alaskan oysters have a lot of advantages. Um, you know, Vibrio is, um, in a lot of warmer states, farmers just have to do a lot of work to deal with. So it's a naturally occurring bacteria in the water that, if, you know, it's always gonna be in oysters, but if the water or the oyster temperature shoots up too high, this bacteria is gonna really replicate and cause some [00:28:00] indigestion issues, for the consumer. But Alaskan, you know, our waters rarely get above 65 degrees, which might be the spring temperatures in Washington or something like that. So the keeping the oysters incredibly cool from the time they come outta the water until the time they go to market is easier for Alaskan producers than in other states. So that's a really nice thing. 

Kevin: Yeah, I would think that time and temperature control must be a little easier to manage in, Alaska where it stays pretty cold even out of the water.

James: Definitely. Yeah. Makes things a lot easier for growers. Yeah. 

Kevin: One of the questions I also have is about, the development of hatcheries in Alaska. Do you guys have much involvement in that? 

James: Yeah, that is definitely an area that we work to support growers' needs or kind of support what they think is necessary for a reliable supply of seed. Um, so there's currently [00:29:00] are several kind of experimental hatcheries that are capable of producing oyster seed in the state. But none of them are really commercially producing seed at the moment. So basically all of the seed, that has grown from the state comes from outta state. And there's really great partnerships between growers and, folks like Hawaiian Shellfish or Hog Island or other hatcheries, in the Pacific Northwest in Hawaii. But there always is some questions of, seed security, and so there is interest in growers. to start buying seed at a smaller size, to kind of take a little bit more ownership over the production process. Um, so some folks in Alaska are experimenting with getting seed that are about two or three weeks old from these hatcheries, and then doing the actual settlement up here in Alaska. 

Kevin: Mm-hmm. 

James: And you know, one of the reasons why we don't have commercial hatcheries up here is because, [00:30:00] That early stage of algal production and oyster production needs to take place in pretty warm waters. And heating our waters from ambient mid fifties or so to that ideal temperature requires pretty dang high heating bill. So, yeah. Um, yeah. 

Kevin: So the focus is more on husbandry or on, the nursery aspect of it as opposed to the hatchery aspect of it, 

James: Exactly. Yeah. maybe for now at least, skipping hatching but doing what's called remote settlement. Um, there's yeah, a lot of, a lot of flupsy production up in Alaska. to, Be able to give their seed a jumpstart in their early stages. But then pushing even kind of earlier into the oysters, lifecycle from flupsies is kind of a thing that several growers are curious about right now.

Kevin: What are the geographic limitations in Alaska for growing oysters or other shellfish? Um, at some point? Is it just too cold? 

James: I think so. Maybe too cold for profitability. At the moment the [00:31:00] Western most oysters that are grown in the state are on Kodiak Island and they've been doing well. And, there's a couple new farms that are probably gonna come online on that island in the coming years. And I think that Kodiak is an area that, people probably thought was too cold for oysters in the past  And then people there are totally proving that theory wrong. Um, I don't think we really know the limit yet. I think as you get towards, once you get up towards Bristol Bay where I fish for sockeye salmon, you start to get a lot more sea ice kind of once you get in that north side of the Alaska Peninsula. So I think that can be a tricky thing to deal with. you know, ice that will come in and just, freeze around your floating cages and then just not care one bit about those anchors you have down in the ocean floor. Just drag it all away. so once you get north of the Alaska Peninsula, I think it probably gets pretty tricky.

 One of the research projects we have going right now is, looking at site suitability for oysters. Mm-hmm. Um, it's funded by actually the Exxon Valdez Oil [00:32:00] Spill Trustees Council. So we're looking at sites throughout the old Exxon Valdez oil spill zone, but that includes Kodiak, Prince William Sound, and also Katchemack Bay. And so we've got oysters as well as, um, some kelp lines and paired with a bunch of oceanographic sensors at nine different farm sites throughout that region. And we're looking at how factors. Uh, that are pretty unique to Alaska might affect oyster growth. so some of these sites are quite close to like a glacial outflow. Um, so how much does like glacial silt have an impact on oysters? You know, how much does that clog up their digestive system and keep them from eating what they want to eat. So that we're trying, you know, trying to help. Inform farmers to, to grow in these more untested regions. 

Kevin: Do you do anything with the development of tourism to support the shellfish growers? 

James: It's a, it's a good question um, I've [00:33:00] been in calls with the Alaska Shellfish Growers Association, ASCA the last month or so to sort of think about this idea a little bit more. Um, and we might have some kind of interesting, uh, programs coming out of that. One idea that we were sort of kicking around was whether we wanted to make an Alaska Oyster Trail similar to the one that, that was gonna be my next question there is in Maine.

Kevin: Yes. 

James: And, um, you know, a lot of other states and it's, it's just a really a cool thing. Basically a lot of my job, I'm just copying the awesome programs that, oyster growers and SEA Grant and folks have done in Maine and bring them up here to Alaska. So there there are a couple of things like that and I think there will be more. You know, where I live in Juneau, we've got, I think now we have about five cruise ships a day this time of year that come in each with, maybe around 5,000 people or something. so there is like quite a bit of tourism around.

I think it's a question of if what the farmers want to dedicate their time towards. Yeah. [00:34:00] Um, but I would say, I think chatting with the, Alaska Shellfish Growers Association, I think that they do want to make sure that they're kind of saturating the Alaska oyster market before they really look to kind of focusing on tourism. What I got from these, these meetings is that we want to kind of focus more on, getting Alaskans really knowledgeable about oysters. first, and I think there's just a lot of cool work to be done there. We've got, you know, some, some very variable regions, just within the state that, it'd be really cool to have people in our state start thinking about what a southeast oyster is versus a Kodiak oyster. Stay tuned on that though. I think we're gonna have some cool programs coming outta this topic in the next year or so. 

Kevin: Well, it sounds like there's a lot of potential for growth in a couple of different directions in that regard. Would you say that oysters are a popular food or delicacy among Alaskans, or is the focus more on fin fish and that sort of thing? [00:35:00] 

James: I would say It is a delicacy. I think that. It's not forefront in people's mind. You know, we're really a pretty salmon focused state in a lot of ways. Sure, yeah. And we're fortunate to have, so many different species of seafood that, we can have at restaurants from the state, you know, prawns and scallops and black cod and all these different delicacies. But bringing the oysters into this mix, I think is happening more and more. I've been seeing a lot of these kind of new oyster places pop up around the state. Um, a new place called the Alaska Oyster Shack that just popped up in Ketchikan that had some farmers out there shucking, last week. And Homer is a really cool culinary destination, that has a lot of oysters on the menus there. Um, Anchorage where I grew up, I think we could get a lot more oysters. Into the mix in those restaurants too. And that's, you know, a big population center with over half our state's population.

Kevin: What about you? Do you eat a lot of oysters? [00:36:00] 

James: I do eat a lot of oysters. The more I eat them, the more I enjoy them. You know, I think of them kind of like wine where I'm still at the very base level of understanding wines. So you might find a Kirkland brand, box of wine in my house right now. 

Kevin: No judgment. 

James: But, but when it comes to oysters, I think I've worked my way up to where I just really can savor them um, just absolutely love them. Especially, you know, when you consider the, the regions in Alaska are, as distinct as going from like Washington to. Louisiana almost, they're just that far away from each other. and have that different kind of environments that these oysters can be grown in. So, I’m still scratching the surface, but, but God, I do love 'em. 

Kevin: What's your future on this? What do you think the five year plan, for what you're doing with Alaska Sea Grant looks like?

James: I honestly think I am in my dream job right now. Yeah. And I would, past five years, I'd be very happy if I was doing the same thing in 20 years, [00:37:00] you know, it's just a really, rewarding position where I think Alaska Sea grant has a really long track record of, of working in a way that benefits communities. So I think just kind of continuing to help that steady growth of the industry, um, continuing to listen and work closely with the growers to work around their priorities. Um, you know, whenever you're growing something in the ocean, like this is just such a. wild place that there's always gonna be stuff to work on in areas to adapt to and improve upon. So lots to do.

Kevin: From an oyster aquaculture perspective, Alaska has so much untapped potential and it's already developing thanks to the work that you and Alaska Sea Grant and others are doing and it's really exciting to think about how you guys are gonna help that develop and grow. Very cool. 

James: We're excited to, to be a part of it.

Kevin: [00:38:00] Well, James, thank you so much for being here with me on OYSTER-ology today and telling me about your work and the work of Alaska Sea Grant and just the Alaskan oyster industry overall.

James: Uh, it was my pleasure, Kevin, and yeah, you're welcome up here anytime.

Kevin: Well, that's it for this episode of OYSTER-ology. Thanks so much to my guest, James Crimp, of Alaska Sea Grant. Images and links to the things we talked about can be found in the show notes. So definitely check it out. If you like this episode or wanna say anything about it, please leave a comment to let me know. I read and reply to everyone and hey, please click follow on your podcast player to catch every ology episode. The more followers I get, the easier others can discover it too. So help me out on that. Thanks so much for listening, and be sure to join me again next time when I pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.

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