Episode 35: Inside the Mind of the Oyster Master - A Conversation with Julie Qiu

Julie Qiu is a globally recognized oyster educator, writer, strategist, and industry advocate. She is the creator of the influential website In A Half Shell, a founding partner of Oyster Master Guild, and a longtime champion of elevating oyster appreciation and oyster service around the world. Kevin Cox sits down with Julie to unpack OMG’s mission to elevate oyster culture through education and certification. Julie shares her journey from brand strategist to renowned oyster sommelier, discusses the concept of merroir, the creation of her In A Half Shell website, and reveals how OMG aims to make oysters accessible to all. With insights into tasting techniques, global oyster trends, and the four-level certification process, this episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about oysters and seafood.

00:00 Introduction to Oyster Textures and Podcast Welcome

00:37 Diverse Perceptions of Oysters

00:54 Introducing Julie Qiu: The Oyster Sommelier

01:30 Julie's Journey and Philosophy

16:31 The Concept of Merroir

21:29 Tasting and Appreciating Oysters

31:14 Introduction to Oyster Master Guild

33:28 The Four Levels of Oyster Master Guild

35:31 Oyster Service Excellence and Certification

37:20 The Importance of Storytelling in Oyster Culture

40:27 Global Reach and Community of Oyster Master Guild

41:57 Oyster Sommelier and Accessibility

45:20 Gen Z and the Future of Oysters

48:00 The Evolution of Oyster Dining

49:57 Quickfire Questions with Julie Qiu

56:41 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links:

Oyster Master Guild (https://www.oystermasterguild.com)

In A Half Shell  (https://www.instagram.com/inahalfshellist/)

Julie on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/inahalfshell)

Credits

• Guest: Julie Qiu
• Host: Kevin Cox
• Digital Deckhand: Chet Jipty

Production of: OYSTER-ology Podcast

Please be sure to Like and Follow OYSTER-ology wherever you listen to podcasts, and tell others about it. Every positive mention of it helps more people find the podcast!

Transcript

Inside the Mind of the Oyster Master - A Conversation with Julie Qiu

[bubbles]

Julie: I grew up in a culture where the cuisine has so many different kinds of textures and mouthfeel, I feel like I'm right at home exploring all of the creamy to squishy, to chewy, to crunchy textures, in oysters. Whereas that is definitely where a lot of people draw the line. Like, I just can't do it.

[bubbles]

Kevin: Welcome to OYSTER-ology, a podcast about oysters, aquaculture, and everything from spat to shuck. I'm your host and the Foodwalker, Kevin Cox. It seems that there's a split in the way eaters think of oysters these days. Some see it as a high-end luxury delicacy while others see it as an increasingly accessible everyday treat.

But why does it have to be one or the other?

To consider this question, I'm joined by someone who needs no introduction. In the oyster world, Julie Qiu is one of the most influential voices shaping how we understand taste and talk about oysters today.

She's a storyteller and educator, a global brand strategist, a visionary, an innovator, the creator of the In A Half Shell website, and the co-founder of the prestigious Oyster Master Guild. She's often called an oyster sommelier, an oyster champion, and even an oyster goddess. And honestly, all of those titles still fall short of describing the influence she's had on how we think about serve and enjoy oysters.

Julie's journey from China to Indiana to New York, from brand strategist to seafood system expert from curious blogger to one of the world's most respected voices in oyster culture is as layered and interesting as the flavors she helps people discover and understand. And in our conversation you'll hear exactly why she's become such a magnetic force in this global oyster community.

We dive into Julie's philosophy of tasting, her way of seeing oysters not just as food and how she came to build an educational movement that's elevating and formalizing oyster service and appreciation around the world. Julie has that rare ability to make you think differently about something you thought you already understood, and she makes the world of oysters feel bigger, deeper, and more wondrous with every sentence. It was an absolute joy and honor to talk with Julie, and I think you'll feel that too.

 So iron your best white shirt and head to the front of the house as we talk about how splurging on oysters can change your life; what is an oyster sommelier?; the relationship between GenZ’ers and oysters?; what does Merroir really mean?; does the same oyster’s flavor change with the seasons?; what's up with Buck-a-Shuck?; the birth of an oyster service industry: and how to properly eat an oyster and why; with master oyster ambassador, storyteller, brand strategist, oyster sommelier, and the person who has shaped the modern oyster world more than anyone I know, Julie Qiu.

[bubbles]

Julie Qiu, welcome to OYSTER-ology. It is so fabulous to have you as a guest. You know, I have to tell you, when I first started learning about oysters and just trying to educate myself a little bit about the world of oysters, I started doing research; I started watching videos; anything I could find on oysters, and you were the first person who rose out of the morass of oyster information as one of the true experts in the world on oysters. You were the person to meet, the person to learn from. So I am so honored to have you as a guest here today. I just can't, uh, I can't tell you how excited I am.

Julie: Oh my gosh, Kevin. Well, that's so flattering. Thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this. I wish I had OYSTER-ology when I first started learning about oysters myself Right there, there wasn't such a thing, but it's so awesome that this exists now for everyone.

Kevin: Well, everybody knows you. Everybody talks about you and says amazing things about you. You've been called an oyster sommelier. You've been called a storyteller. You've been called an educator. But how do you describe in general terms what you do?

Julie: I will have to add that Gardner Douglas, the Oyster Ninja, titled me The Oyster Goddess, which I quite love. Um, but honestly, I see myself in two ways. One is I see myself as an oyster champion. Oyster sommelier is a wonderful way to describe the services that I can provide to consumers when I do events. And on the other side, I really identify, with my professional background as a brand strategist. So I love the tackling challenges to help businesses become more relevant to the audiences that they're trying to reach and to serve. And doing the work, being able to do the work of marketing and branding, storytelling within the world of oysters is where my dreams have come true. And I was able to very fortunately, marry those two things together.

Kevin: You were born in Shanghai and when did you come to the US?

Julie: Right. So my entire family's from Shanghai, and I immigrated with my parents when I was five years old. Now their story is quite incredible. We don't have time for it here, but it's enough to say that you need, a bit of luck and a bit of, determination to be able to do what my parents were able to do. Uh, we first lived in Boston where my dad completed his master's at Northeastern University, I believe. And then he got a job, as an engineer for Otis Elevators, and then moved out to Bloomington, Indiana. So I grew up in the middle of Indiana where I like to say, where all of the fresh seafood was in the nineties, right?

Kevin: Not an oyster in sight.

Julie: Not an oyster in sight. But my mom's little brother, my very cool uncle, he happened to live in San Diego. And I remember one Christmas, I think I was about 15 years old, we took a trip out to San Diego to spend the holidays with them, and uncle was paying for lunch. So I was like, let's go to town as a fancy teenager. And I was like, you know, let's go, let's go order these raw oysters. And I just remember this large seafood menu with all these different varieties of oysters on top. I was like, I wanna try all of them. And then so we got two dozen. Uncle, I don't know how happy he was about that, but it was a great memory of tasting different oyster varieties that I had never, been exposed to in Indiana. And I just remember vaguely that I really enjoyed tasting some of them and not liking, others. And now in hindsight, it was probably because there were varying degrees of freshness and quality in some, because some, I just thought that they were probably too fishy. Um, so that's, sort of the very fast origin story. And eventually after high school I moved to Pittsburgh to attend Carnegie Mellon, and immediately after that came to New York City to pursue a career in advertising.

Kevin: So, if you had uncle pay for a whole platter of mixed oysters as a teenager, you were a pretty daring eater then, I would say, because a lot of people are sort of squeamish about raw oysters.

Julie: Yeah. I, um, some of my earliest childhood food memories were very adventurous. I mean, I didn't know it at the time. I was like 3, 4, 5. They sat me down in my grandma's kitchen and just handed me a roast duck head. It's like, here you go, go for it. Or like a, a fish head. Like there were a lot of heads, strangely enough. But I, I just thought it was, oh, these are interesting foods with interesting textures. And you know, in Chinese culture, food is everything. Food is just how you connect with people, how you stay healthy. and exploring so many different flavors was always part of my upbringing. So, yeah, I suppose oysters wasn't a really huge stretch, although, to be honest, raw oysters wasn't part of Chinese cuisine at all growing up. There was no talk of eating raw shellfish of any kind. So I imagine I actually, I don't know, maybe my parents were like, let's just see what happens here. They didn't deter me at that point.

Kevin: And yeah, you're eating as a young kid kind of gave you a step up on a lot of people, in terms of really trying new things. So how would you say that your background in branding and marketing influenced what you do today? You were with Jaguar for a while with Anheuser-Busch and Australis Aquaculture?

Julie: So when I moved to New York City, I started working in a top ad agency in New York. So, I first did internships during college and that transitioned into a full-time position as an account executive on the Jaguar Cars USA account within that agency. and over the years, I was assigned other accounts to advance, I switched from account management into brand planning, which is what they called strategy at the time. And, one of the most pivotal changes was going onto the ExxonMobil account, which I don't often talk about because “big oil”. Um, ironically, they were able to support a very large market research project that allowed me to travel the world and try oysters everywhere. And this was such a rare opportunity, especially I think this was 2008 was the first one, like at the point of the economic downturn. It was very surreal to have the opportunity to do that. But during those trips, you know, while I wasn't working and doing focus groups, I was trying to find the local oyster of that city. And that was just an interesting point in my life where I realized like, this culture is everywhere and yet, every place thinks their oysters are the best and they're not really exploring other places 'cause you really just can't get them. So, after that, I left the agency world for a couple of years because I wanted to see how I could do on my own and pursue my own projects, develop In A Half Shell a bit more. So, uh, In A Half Shell was founded in 2009. After a short stint of just random food blogging, I was like, I really want to focus in on a subject oysters At the time, there were just signs in the universe that told me maybe this is a cool topic to focus in on. I was like, yeah, sure, why not? The, the domain wasn't taken. It was a suggestion given to me by my art director. We were all in my office and like brainstorming, and he said, “what about In A Half Shell?” I was like, yeah, that sounds great. Let's see if the domain is. Is available. And lo and behold it was. So I bought it right then and there, like very impulsively not knowing what to do with it.

 So after a while of consulting, I was able to help Fisher's Island Oyster Company rebrand. This was a dream project. Sarah and Steve Malinowski are some of like the most genuine and amazing people that I know. And I went maybe to the island four or five times over the course of almost a year to like to see their operations in detail, to understand their story and help them put together a public facing identity website, photography copy that really helped express what they were all about. And I loved doing that and I wanted to do more of it. But of course not all oyster growers are in the position of investing that amount of time resources in, into doing this branding exercise. So after a couple years of that, I was offered the opportunity to become the global marketing director for Australis Aquaculture. This was also kind of on a chance whim meeting the CEO at a sustainable seafood blog conference in New Orleans. The first and only time this blog conference ever existed, but it was wonderful.

Kevin: I would love to go to that conference.

Julie: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. As you can imagine, bunch of quirky people invested in sustainable seafood, and Australis was a, an early sponsor. and at the time they were looking for someone to spearhead their marketing in the us. So they really needed someone at the helm to kind of clarify their communications. And this is finfish aquaculture. So naively I was like, oyster farming, fish farming, how different could they be? I could do this. And, it ended up being such a rewarding, um, journey to learn so deeply about the global seafood system. And so that was a very roundabout way in getting myself into a position of understanding marketing and branding, being able to tackle my own projects, and then also working with astralis, learning about the seafood supply chain.

And so I think that was when all of these ideas were percolating in my head to finally develop Oyster Master Guild.

Kevin: So that was kind of the process that led you to take oysters from an interest into kind of a calling for you, I think.

Julie: Yeah. So I had In A Half Shell, like I mentioned, starting in 2009, and it was always a side hobby. Mm-hmm. I had no intention at the beginning to turn it into some kind of a monetized blog. I didn't like the idea of putting banner ads on my blog. I just wanted to be as pretty as it can be, um, showcasing photography, my stories.

Uh, but along the way I've was presented with opportunities to share my experiences and knowledge with members of the oyster industry in different countries. And so I was like, well, that's interesting that I could get paid for this, but also like, what would be the sustainable business model if I were to pursue it?

And for a very long time, I felt like it would make me happier to leave oysters separate from where I would make, my living money. You know? Right? With a fear of if I turned this into a job, it would feel like a job versus feeling like a fun thing that I get to do on the side of a job. So I was trying to do experiments here and there to see what might be a viable way to provide something unique in the oyster world without opening an oyster bar, because I didn't want to get tied down into a single location. I love to travel. Um, and I think In A Half Shell was very unique at the time because I was able to, like yourself, talk to a diverse group of people, right? And feel like you can support everyone without necessarily choosing sides and supporting the industry as a whole.

I really, really liked that aspect of doing what I was doing. So it took a while and, I met Patrick McMurray. In, 2013, I believe in Galway, Ireland. We knew of each other and we saw each other. It was like, oh my God, we need to meet. And then had kept in touch ever since. And Patrick and I share a common vision and desire to help support the industry and make that a better place for future shuckers and future consumers, future producers, storytellers. And we also share very similar frustrations with how oysters were poorly presented in restaurants and raw bars. And that was the spark that was also part of developing Oyster Master Guild. In that there needs to be a more formal educational platform where people can learn best practices, connect with people who share the same high standards for oyster service. And so we officially launched in 2023 and have been going at it, for a couple years now.

Kevin: It seems to me that to really understand Oyster Master Guild and what I perceive to be the mission that you guys have, one first needs to understand the concept of merroir. That's a critical component of the purpose of Oyster Master Guild. So tell me, how would you describe merroir to somebody who doesn't of course, really know a lot about it?

Julie: Well, I think, for someone who's new to oysters, um, I would just say oysters taste like where they come from, and no place is the same as the other. It is the expression of a specific place, time and also incorporating the decisions that a producer or harvester makes along the way. So there's a human element. Within Oyster Master Guild we have a framework that talks about merroir as the intersection between nature, time, and energy. So there's a nice little Venn diagram that I designed with like, three circles, right? Intersecting and merroir's in the middle. Um, intersecting with nature, time and energy is method, labor and season. And so we cover all the bases. And I'm still in the process of trying to better define and describe what those levers are in impacting how an oyster tastes. Um, the merroir was a concept that really sparked my imagination very early on. Uh, Rowan Jacobson's, a Geography of Oysters was my oyster Bible. I know,he was your very first guest, right?

Kevin: He was. He was. 

Julie: And you talked greatly about that. And it really inspired me to go down that, that adventure, to try to taste and learn about as many types of oysters as I possibly could, because I was just so enamored by the flavors and the changes in flavor. And plus, I think my taste tends to lean towards, umami heavy foods. So anything with umami, I love, And so it's a never ending adventure for taste, uh, like wines or whiskeys, cheese, coffees, chocolates, all of these great global commodities. In food have found themselves being able to elevate the value of that ingredient through storytelling and specific flavor differentiation. So I found that very fascinating, And it's like, why couldn't you do it with oysters as a gateway seafood?

Kevin: Well, it seems to me from the concept of terroir and grapes it's the influences of, nature, time and energy. I would think that oysters being always submerged, are almost more direct recipients or beneficiaries of the merroir concept because they're always in the water. Is merroir almost a more powerful concept with oysters than, terroir with wine?

Julie: Hmm, absolutely. the quality and quantity of food in the water can change the flavor of an oyster very quickly. Um, and so it feels very sharp, but also fleeting at the same time. the terroir of wine for me feels like it's more tangible You can go back to it in some senses over and over again. Whereas for oysters, because they change all the time, merroir is at once like more real in a sense, but also very ephemeral.

Kevin: That's so interesting. I never thought about it like that. It's like, an oyster is actually a snapshot of a specific moment of time because what's in that water changes with the tides and the weather and everything else, right?

Julie: Absolutely. And now I'm starting to think about, the flavor of an oyster might also be impacted by its biological responses to the change in environment. Really.we know that oysters want to spawn in the summer. They increase their lipid content, they start to go dormant, in the winter. So they're converting all that energy into glycogen stores and that makes the oysters sweeter. And what's actually happening on a chemical level is that they are changing their structure to accommodate these changing, conditions in which they have to survive. So I'm have been working on trying to connect the environment to flavor in a way that is expressed through oyster physiology and changes to its biochemistry.

Kevin: You know, just, just when, I didn't think oysters could get more fascinating than they are, you've now added a whole new dimension to it, which I'm gonna be up at night thinking about.

 But that kind of leads into the question of tasting. So now I have in front of me the first book that I ever found formalizing How to Track the Flavor and Taste of Oysters, and that's your book called 33 Oysters on the Half Shell, and in that book, you designed a a wheel where people can highlight the different flavor profiles as they're eating any particular oyster and track it. Tell me a little bit about what you look for when you taste an oyster, how you taste an oyster, and how you can use these tools that you've created to follow that and learn what you really like.

Julie: Sure. Um, before I do, I do want to clarify the credit to the tasting wheel. That is not my invention, that is actually developed by Dave Selden, my publisher, and the, the creator of 33 books. But it's been helpful to me also to go around and track the different flavor profiles. My initial impressions, as I mentioned, oysters are quite fleeting, so it's really important to me to capture what I was experiencing at that particular time and place for a specific oyster and revisit it over and over again in different other locations. So for me, I use the book more to track the same oyster over time versus tracking different oyster varieties, which is so fabulous to do as well. But it's so fascinating to revisit the same oyster, in different years, in different seasons.

Kevin: Yeah, that's fascinating.

Julie: And regarding the steps of how to taste and appreciate the oyster. I had initially looked to wine tasting a little bit to understand the steps involved and what I really liked about other types of food sensory tasting experiences is that they do involve all of your senses and I think with oysters it's very important to, to be able to do that as well.

So I like to tell people to first eat with their eyes. Look the oysters. Understand that they should be well hydrated, opaque, nice meat to shell ratio is always favored. Um, and it's also a bit of a quality check, right? Because at that point, even if someone doesn't know what a good oyster looks like, if they are given a massacred scrambled oyster or the belly is cut, it turns people off. Like, imagine there's so many, lost first time oyster eaters because of the appearance of the oyster.Right. And it's no fault of the oyster itself. it's really the last hands that touch it. So in any case, first step is see then smell uh, smelling oysters, nothing at all or very, very faint. Mm-hmm. Oceanic aroma. Um,

Kevin: No fishiness, no seafoodyness.

Julie: Yeah. No, no. Sulfur. Um, and I tell people if they do just, you know, set it aside, flag somebody to get a replacement. Probably wouldn't make you sick, to be honest, but it's just not appetizing.

Kevin: Right.

Julie: And then I personally like to sip a little bit of the oyster liquor inside the shell, to help acclimate my palate to the salinity level. It helps kind of separate the salt from the rest of the aromas and flavor that you get after eating the oyster. So I always like to know what salt content. Is in the oyster, especially in North America, where there is actually a great variety of salinities across the coast.

This is not necessarily the case in Europe, as I've discovered, where all of the oysters are largely very high in salinity. Um, savor chewing the oyster is a must. I always tell people, chew, absolutely. Chew, chew, chew your oysters. That's why my last name is Qiu. And it helps. 

Kevin: Who knew? 

Julie: Uh, yeah. Well, people always ask like, how do you pronounce your last name? It like, it's Qiu, like Chew Your Goddamn Oyster!

Kevin: I love it.

Julie: And the scientific reason why that's important is that you have enzymes in your saliva that helps break down the proteins in the oyster into its free amino acids, which impart more flavor on your palate than your straight up, protein chains alone. So when you're chewing, you can actually experience more flavor development on your palate versus, nobody needs to shoot an oyster. I really don't know where that comes from. 

Kevin: I don't either. 

Julie: Yeah. Just don't do it. It's, I don't know. But I'm sure like anybody who's listening to this knows that they should chew their oyster.

Kevin: Yeah. 

Julie: And then the aftertaste, the finish on your palette is just a, a lovely, uh, it can be clean and and short, or it can be lingering. Kind of speaks to maybe the lipid content, maybe the addition of volatile organic compounds that are just coming through into your retronasal olfaction, like the, the odor receptors in the top inside of your mouth.

Kevin: So how has your palate changed over your years of eating oysters? I would imagine it's developed, right?

Julie: I hope so. I think, I think, tasting and describing oysters is like learning a new language. And, it's always fun to introduce people to the idea because it's almost like telling 'em there's a secret island out there where people talk in this unique tongue and, uh, they have a blast doing it. And so it's, uh, you build it with practice. And there's times when I've become better and probably times when I've fallen out practice 'cause I haven't eaten. oysters, so much I don't know, how sensitive my palate has gotten, or maybe more realistically when you age, like your taste buds become less sensitive. But I think that my ability to associate what I'm tasting to a descriptor has certainly improved and that can happen with anything. It's just like exercising. You are building a muscle, you're building, a part of your brain that associates a specific sensory input to a word. And for a lot of people that's like you are tasting everything that anybody can taste, but it's the challenge of then describing what you are tasting to somebody else. And that's the really hard part. So people know that oysters are briny, they know that they can be sweet seaweedy, even oceanic, but that's it. And there's so many other vocabulary words, so much oyster lexicon that can be introduced to that person to help them really think about, oh, this is actually a bit more nuanced than, you know, this, this body of water tastes different from that body of water. And to be able to describe that is, I think, how you become a more sophisticated oyster taster, right? 

A side note is that our noses and our sense of smell is so incredibly sophisticated. I think scientists have theorized that we can discern up to 1 trillion different odors, uh, based on how our sense of smell works, and that that might equate to just thousands and thousands of different flavors that we can discern. Um, it only seemed to make sense to me to create a more sophisticated way to identify what those flavors could be. And that is really the bulk of the oyster tasting wheel that Oyster Master Guild has developed. Um, inspired by previous wheels that have already been in existence. So Patrick McMurray has a oyster wheel in his book, and Pangea Shellfish developed a flavor wheel long time ago. And I believe that there's a wheel for, um, ma andron oysters in France that also incorporates all the senses and it's, it's particular to their oysters, but they also think about, the approach in the same way.

Kevin: Yeah one of the things that I hear a lot of people, especially newbies to oyster eating kind of talk about is mouthfeel. and I think that there's a big difference culturally, in terms of what mouthfeel is enjoyed and what is not. What's your thought on that?

Julie: Oh, a hundred percent mouthfeel textures of food is very much learned when you grow up. like when you're a baby, you have no preconceived notions of what good textures like, what textures you like and what you dislike. It's all very culturally based, and given that I grew up in a culture where the cuisine has so many different kinds of textures and mouthfeel, I feel like I'm right at home exploring all of the creamy to squishy, to chewy, to crunchy textures, in oysters. Whereas that is definitely where a lot of people draw the line. It's not the flavor that they mind, it's really the mouthfeel and the texture of that oyster that's just like, I just can't do it. Completely understandable. And it's a hurdle that's very hard for some people to get over.

Kevin: So being able to distinguish the different kind of mouth feels. And I think in the West, especially in the United States, we tend to group it all together. And we don't generally like real soft, squishy kind of stuff unless it's intentionally done. So, I often have to tell people when I'm shucking oysters for them and they're looking at them and they're a little afraid, it's like, listen, they're slippery or silky, but there's no slime in an oyster. They're not slimy. And I think, yeah, I have to kind of convince people of that. And then they say, oh, yeah.

Julie: No.

Kevin: So all of this leads the tasting, the learning about the oysters, the merroir, all of this leads to your and Patrick's creation of Oyster Master Guild. And for full disclosure, um, I'm a proud member of Oyster Master Guild. Um, I think you guys are amazing. But instead of me waxing poetic about it, I would like you to tell me, first of all: what is it in your mission and tell me a little more about its origins.

Julie: Sure. So Oyster Master Guild was, developed to create first, an educational structure, a pathway for people who are not necessarily born into oysters, to learn deeply about oysters, so that they can create amazing oyster experiences for others. The end goal of anyone who goes through our program is that they have the knowledge, and skills – 'cause opening oysters properly is definitely an important part – to be able to showcase and express the value of oysters in the way that they deserve. And it draws way back to when I found myself kind of sitting on a, my first oyster farm in Martha's Vineyard and seeing firsthand, seed planting day, um, with the crew out there. And that was so evocative and so special that I would never look at Martha's Vineyard oysters the same way again. And I was like, wouldn't it be amazing if like others could. Get that story at the very least so that they know when they're paying $3, $3.50 for Martha's Vineyard oyster on the table, they know what had to be done to be able to provide that. And those stories just don't get passed through the supply chain very well. I'd like to say that the value starts to evaporate very quickly after it leaves the hands of the producer, into distribution, into a wholesaler, into a restaurant where you don't know who's handling the oysters necessarily, the buyer isn't necessarily the shucker, et cetera.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

Julie: Any case, Oyster Master Guild, takes a page out of wine education and creating a four level program. So Introduction is the, oyster appreciation fundamentals where you pretty much learn. the essential knowledge around what oysters are, the species to know how to identify and taste oysters to a very simple degree. How to open oysters, how to, give and expect great oyster experiences when you dine in or stay at home. Level Two focuses more on the global oyster world, so advanced oyster appreciation. We deep dive into the different regions of production and giving you the lay of the land in North America, as well as overviews of the different species that are grown around the globe.

So the Pacific oyster is a big one, and we cover Europe, Asia, Australia, New Zealand in that module, as well as our specialty oysters. So the European native oyster, the Kumamoto, the Olympia. So we have had maybe over 400 people enroll in level one. About 150 have become certified. Wow. Uh, about 50 have become certified within level two. And the majority of people who take these courses are involved in oyster communication, like storytelling and shucking to some degree. Um, they say that they've been able to understand the oyster context in which they are working so much better. And if they are in a service role, when they do have people visiting from other countries, they can relate because they know what that other person's oysters like, what they experience at home is like compared to the ones that they're serving, um, in their location. So that's a really cool aspect of just broadening your knowledge that way. Now, Level Three is oyster service excellence. And we have always wanted to, build this program for hospitality professionals. So consumers are welcome to take it, but I thought that the biggest need and the biggest opportunity to create scalable change for the oyster industry was to tackle the hospitality sector.

Kevin: Let's be clear. The success to date of Oyster Master Guild can't be overstated. Since launching, Julie and Patrick McMurray have built the education program up to the highest levels and standards anywhere. These include specialty courses and master classes covering all aspects of oysters after leaving the farm. For professionals in the industry, they've established a certification program which recognizes people who take on the awesome responsibility of oyster ambassadorship across the food service supply chain. They have four certification levels, reaching all the way to Master Oyster Educator and teaching the skill and knowledge of only the foremost oyster experts in the world.

Julie: So oyster service excellence is all about that kind of creating a sustainable business operation around an oyster program. What a exceptional oyster program looks like. What do you need to know as a buyer? what do you need to know as someone who is setting up a catering operation, for example, and then getting into more advanced tips and tricks from Patrick. He's all about, creating efficiencies. Yeah, in the kitchen and the proper ergonomics of shucking so that you don't injure yourself, you don't get fatigued too easily. I think those things, when you do it day in, day out, matter so much that, um, that's not really taught in the kitchen necessarily. So the education and now the certification aspect work hand in hand. I think from my marketing background, I started realizing, well, in order to make people care about oysters, you need to make people care about the people who care about oysters in that way. And, look at our culinary culture. We celebrate chefs and we celebrate bartenders, and, land farmers to a huge degree. But we celebrate those people who are able to translate ingredients into emotional experiences. And that has not yet happened for oysters. And oyster people, oyster specialists, oyster shuckers, oyster sommeliers have not gotten the same level of recognition as value creators in their businesses. Um, or, why we're doing all of this. Like, why a grower spends years farming and being obsessed over a shell.

Kevin: So you saw a real gap in the restaurant industry when it comes to serving oysters and telling the story so that the consumer really understands what they're eating.

Julie: Absolutely. Yeah. And it, that came firsthand as a very frustrated consumer who knew too much. Right. And I was like, Why couldn't there be someone as knowledgeable and giving guests that emotional like vivid experience that a wine sommelier does? Or a cheese monger does, or a sushi master does, or your favorite barista telling you nerding out about all these different coffee beans? Like, why couldn't that exist? So we just did it. We just made it. And, we had to make something for people to react to. And it's not necessarily to say this is the end all be all, but it had to just be made right. And it will evolve in the future.

Kevin: Well, like wine or cheese or coffee,the more you know about it, the more you're able to discern different flavors and tastes and the richer your experience becomes. nothing is worse than going to, a restaurant and they serve you oysters and other than telling you what kind of oysters they are, they say nothing. And it's like, you know, there's a story like these oysters were in the water this morning, right there. Like, tell me about that. And who are the people growing these And you're kind of developing the platform so people can do that right?

Julie: Yes. To have the tools to be able to tell those stories. And also community is a huge part of it. So the connection that we have with oysters, if you are on the coast and oysters happen to be right there, it would be amazing to understand that connection, like how you're connected to the water, to the coastal communities that you may live in, or you might just be visiting. And that's, also a wonderful aspect of creating the membership around Oyster Master Guild and, collecting kinda like-minded oyster nerds and people who want to learn and share together. And that's really fun to see once you get someone into OMG, how the oyster culture grows around them in wherever they are. And I think we have, oh gosh, like 28 states in the US represented, so there's a certified member in 28 of the 50 states,

Kevin: And I think over a dozen countries represented as well, right? 

Julie: Yes, yes, yes. So that was a surprise when I first, wanted to launch this course, I'm like, Patrick, we are gonna do this online because we can have people's, uh, chime into Zoom from wherever. So I set up a pre-sale page on the learning platform that I was using at the time and thinking, you know, it would be great to get 30 people to do this with us, as in like inaugural class, right? Um, and so I opened it up and lo and behold, by the time we had to close enrollment, we had 101, which was mind blowing. And at that point, I think it was, like nine countries kind of represented in that initial cohort. And they are, there's oyster nerds all over, man. It's, it's kind of surreal, like from Australia and New Zealand, that's the most far away to in Europe where the Baltic states actually have a few oyster specialists who are really creating a new market in places like, uh, Latvia and Estonia in addition to people from Ireland. Yeah. Uh, France, Spain, Italy, et cetera.

Kevin: So I have a question about, the formalization, of oyster service and the concept of an oyster sommelier. Does it run a risk of creating a stigma that oysters are a luxury item, like fine wines might be considered? Is there a balancing factor that also can show that oysters are everyday foods that they can just enjoy casually at home with no fuss or anything?

Julie: Well, that's a good point. And I think, um, that there will always be a spectrum of different oyster experiences and it would be phenomenal if we are able to produce enough oysters where we can go back to having them as everyday proteins, right? Because the reality is that we are maybe at one 10th even less of what historic oyster supply and consumption, numbers were right in this country, in other countries. And so we're not quite there yet. And because of the scarcity and limited consumption, I think that's why they're perceived as a luxury specialty good. Certainly an oyster sommelier; that term does, connote, uh, like an elevated and perhaps more expensive experience. But I really like to think that, the best wine soms are ones who make you feel like you can be part of this world and not excluded from it. There are some wine soms who make you feel incredibly excluded, but there are ones that make you feel like this is welcoming and you are welcome to explore this world with us. And then, drink what you like, eat what you like. And I always say there's no wrong way to eat an oyster. There's certainly a process in tasting and appreciating an oyster for what it is, but it's like you can enjoy a cheese tasting in mac and cheese. What we are trying to do with OMG is to develop that higher end culture because it doesn't exist.

But I guess I'm, I'm not of the mindset to say like that's the only way that oysters can be appreciated. I think that there will be a trickle down effect though, that once you have the specialization and understanding how to present oysters well, you will actually get more and more people interested in it, because they're going to have a good time eating oysters where they're not spitting out shell or they're not commenting about the texture, or they're getting very tasty product and knowing it's like, oh, this is, this is not what I thought it was. It's not like my grandpa's oysters back in the day where, you know, they just look large and horrifying type of thing. So I think it's all good. 

Kevin: Well, yeah, because really, as I, as I think about it, that has happened with wine. there's a lot of inexpensive wines that people enjoy at home and they can still talk about it and enjoy it for what it is. It doesn't have to be a $200 bottle of wine. and that was because of the elevation That kind of informed everybody. So I suppose oysters shouldn't be any different.

Julie: I don't think so. I, I really think that it will ultimately raise enthusiasm for oysters across the board versus making it feel exclusive.

Kevin: Do you think that the GenZ or younger generations of eaters are changing in terms of their palate and what they're willing to eat and accept. And if so, what does that say for oysters?

Julie: Oh gosh, that's, so, that's hard to say. I have certainly seen trend reports and studies less about what they're eating and more about what they're drinking or not drinking. Um, as alcohol consumption has really decreased across the board for GenZ. But in terms of, their interest in new flavor, I mean, we are very diverse. It's becoming more multicultural. And I think with that you have kind of a more acceptance to different flavors. And even if I look around, maybe I'm in a bubble in New York City. But I swear, like there's so many Korean places now and, or like even Indian fast casual has really popped up to be like the new thing. Sushi is everywhere now when it, it used to not. So I think the expansion of our palates within the US is certainly a thing. I don't know if that's necessarily true in other countries. So I live partly in New York and then partly in Spain. And I have spent, quite a bit of time in Madrid over the last four years. And it still feels to me very traditional, but at the same time, they are embracing of a lot in Latin cuisines from all over. So you can find the Mexican, Argentinian, uh, all these delicious foods, But, in terms of oysters particularly and seafood. I think what Gen Z really want are connections to where their food comes from. It's the evolution of that slow food movement to a point where they want to know and they want it to be sustainable, but they also want it to be an experience. And wellness comes into play deeply. Like they feel like their body is a temple and they want to nourish themselves with the best foods, drinks possible, which in case the oyster is incredibly relevant.

Kevin: Absolutely. I was gonna say all of those points you just made, the factors that may be important to Gen Z or oyster fits them all. I mean, they want to know where it comes from and experience that whole thing. They want to get muddy, get in the water, get wet, shuck an oyster, stand in the water and taste it. And I tell them, it's like, it always tastes better when you're standing in the water when you just pull it out.

Julie: It does. Right. It activates all your senses.

Kevin: It really does. What do you think that the oyster scene from a dining perspective is gonna look like in say, 10 years?

Julie: This is a good question. The oyster scene. Hmm.

Kevin: There's a renaissance going on right now. would you say?

Julie: I think there has been, this curiosity for oysters and the different varieties for quite a long time, depending on who you ask though, whether that's still on the up and up, or if it's flatlined. I am not quite sure. I definitely have noticed in the US the proliferation of oyster catering services mm-hmm. Outside of your traditional brick and mortar oyster bar. Oyster bars are difficult to manage and to keep profitable depending on, uh, so many different factors. I mean, any business within hospitality right now is truly challenged. And that's, that's like a whole other topic about how restaurants are able to survive in these economic conditions, given labor costs, given food costs. Um, but for oysters, I think there's an opportunity there to create these very unique emotional connective experiences that help profitability and help drive revenue for a hospitality business. And you see individuals kind of already doing this by offering popup oyster bar services, roving shuckers are happening everywhere. You see every, like every other wedding has an oyster bar now. 

Kevin: Yeah, that's true. Pretty much. That's why for the first time in my life, I like going to other people's weddings because hopefully there'll be oysters there.

Julie: Totally. Right. Just station yourself around, just like Exactly. I did an oyster and champagne toast at my own wedding in Maine ages ago. And, and my friends still talk about it, like expressing that it's one of the best oysters they ever had. And it's like, yep. 

Kevin: Well that's that's wonderful. Um, can we do a quick round of sort of quick hit questions? 

Julie: Sure. 

Kevin: Just kind of fire off whatever answer comes to the top of your head. Uh, What's your favorite oyster right now? If you have one?

Julie: That's so hard, Kevin, why would you start with that?

Kevin: I didn't say it would be easy.

Julie: I know. Oh, right now, oh, this is so hard because I, I have a love for so many oysters and every place can produce amazing oysters. Yeah. You know what's funny is the more I eat them, uh, the less it's about the flavor profile for me and it's more about the people behind them.

Kevin: I completely agree with that too.

Julie: When I go into a restaurant, um, I will naturally gravitate to the oyster varieties that I know, 'cause I'm friends with the growers at this point. Right. I would say, without naming any specific names, my personal preference in the flavor profile is high salt high umami, high meat to shell ratio. I love intense oysters, any species that fits that profile for me. And with the complexity after chewing it a few times, really makes me happy. So when I was in Spain, I had the opportunity to actually try, I think four or five European natives from different countries. And that was quite a treat to be able to compare the levels of metallicness and savoriness of that species. And here I've been actually doing a fun one year sensory analysis with four oyster producers who I'm friends with. one from Maine, one from North Carolina, one from Florida, and then one from Washington. To taste their oysters on a year round basis, once every quarter to get an idea of like how they evolve. So I'm copping out. I'm not, I don't know what my favorite is at the moment.

Kevin: That was a true oyster ambassador response. So, uh, no, nobody can be offended and it made total sense. Okay. Preference raw or cooked?

Julie: Oh, well, raw definitely a hundred percent. Okay. Depends on the

size, right? Once you get to, you know, like a large honker Pacific oyster, that is certainly gonna taste better, grilled or cooked than going down raw. But for the most part, I would stick to raw any day.

Kevin: Okay. Now what about, uh, eating the raw oyster neat or with a minionette or other additive?

Julie: Um, general, it also depends, but generally if I get pristine primo oysters from a grower, I will choose to eat them with nothing at all. If I were in a oyster bar doing happy hour with a dozen oysters that I'm very familiar with, I would love to explore the chef's, you know, minionette interpretations. I love minionette, so I like, I do like to sample the different ones with oysters. Um, no cocktail sauce at all, ever much. I'm not really a horse radish person eater either, so,

Kevin: Yeah. Okay. You mentioned, happy hour in bars, so that takes me to the next one. What's your view on, Buck-a-Shuck?

Julie: Oh, I got into this one in a recent Instagram post, and I've written about this a few times, as well. I don't think it makes sense for anyone at this time and age. For me from the standpoint of a communicator and a brand strategist, the idea of imposing dollar oyster happy hours or offering, it makes consumers believe that they should be cheap when unfortunately they are not right now.

Kevin: Right. 

Julie: I think they tie oysters to the notion that they are abundant and they're easy to produce and they are everywhere, and that's not the case. And until we can get to that, and also until when restaurants are able to sustain their teams and their businesses with customers who, you know, understand the value that they're providing, it doesn't really make sense.

That said. I, I don't think I would be able to do what I'm doing now without oyster happy hours. Like when I started the oyster blog, I was, I think in my like late mid-twenties and I wasn't making a ton of money. So getting to enjoy different oyster varieties was only made possible because of these happy hours involved. So part of me feels like there should be something like that. Maybe it's just to, to learn how to shuck yourself and then you can get dollar oysters any day, and then you can become a fabulous shucker. Right. But don't expect them to be served, you know, at a restaurant at that price.

Kevin: Yeah. Are there any particular regions around the world that you think deserve more attention from the oyster world?

Julie: Well, close to home, I think the southern state. are, um, very under appreciated by us Northerners.Yeah. So I, I have so much heart for the work that Oyster South is doing, and it's a such a robust community of southern oyster producers, amazing chefs, regulators, government, all trying to support the development of southern oyster aquaculture. And there's some fantastic product coming from Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Florida, you name it. It's very remarkable in that sense. 

Around the world though, there's interesting things happening in Australia, and because of the distance we're not able to get a lot of that product and other markets. So they're developing very cool merroir culture of their own around the rock oyster that's certainly worth traveling for. And that's been on my bucket list for many, many years, so I'm hoping to return to Australia at some point. I did visit a farm in Tasmania, but it was like, just one day, which is not enough.

Kevin: So, last question. If you could share a dozen beautiful oysters with any person, dead or alive, who would it be?

Julie: Anthony Bourdain.

Kevin: Oh, great answer. Me too.

Julie: Very quickly. He would, he would get it. Actually, he's partial to Wellfleet oysters. 

Kevin: Really? 

Julie: Um, so I've, so I've seen like in his writing and, it would be phenomenal to have a conversation with Mr. Bourdain about oysters.

Kevin: Well, Julie, I wish I could just sit here and talk to you all day long. You are so interesting and your breadth and depth of knowledge is astounding. And I'm so grateful that you could be here on OYSTER-ology with me today. So thank you so much for being my guest.

Julie: Thank you so much for having me. This was all the fun. It was, I love talking about oysters, so appreciate the opportunity.

Kevin: Well, that's a wrap on my conversation with the incomparable Julie Qiu, someone whose curiosity, clarity, and devotion to oyster culture make the rest of us wanna raise our own oyster standards a little higher.

When I talk with Julie, I'm reminded that oysters aren't just food. They're stories, experiences, craftsmanship and connection, and Julie has a remarkable way of pulling all those threads together and showing us why they matter. If today's episode sparked something in you, whether it's a newfound respect for the craft of oysters service, a deeper appreciation of flavor, or just the urge to find a dozen beautiful oysters and sit with them a little more intentionally, then Julie's work is already doing exactly what it's meant to do. You can follow her writing, her courses, her events in the community she's building through her In A Half Shell website and the Oyster Master Guild. I'll have links in the show notes, so be sure to check 'em out.

Thanks so much for listening to OYSTER-ology. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow rate and share it; it helps other oyster lovers find the show, too, so help me out on that. And please leave a Comment on what you thought about this episode. I listen to everyone and would love your feedback. And as a final gentle reminder from this episode:

Julie: Chew Your Goddamn Oyster!

Kevin: Please be sure to join me again next time as we pry open the shell of another interesting OYSTER-ology topic.