Design Principles Pod
Architecture. A hot topic, a buzz word, a realm for the rich and famous, or the thing that your step uncle does? We will be unpacking the good, the bad and the downright reality of the architectural and construction industry. With insights from industry professionals and personal anecdotes from our three hosts Ben, Gerard and Sam, you will be given a look behind the closed pages of those fancy looking moleskins. Tune in and redline out.
Design Principles Pod
Outside Influence: Has the Architectural Pilgrimage Changed?
What happens when architecture becomes more accessible through images than through physical experience? This question forms the backbone of our conversation with Nina Boyd, a New Zealand architect currently working in Paris.
The traditional architectural pilgrimage—traveling to see important buildings firsthand—has fundamentally changed. Where Alvar Aalto's visit to Italy completely transformed his design approach, today's architects arrive at celebrated buildings having already seen countless images online. This digital pre-exposure creates a curious paradox: greater accessibility to architectural imagery but potentially diminished impact when finally experiencing spaces in person.
Nina shares insights from her recent Scandinavian travels, exploring how Finnish towns balance high density living with beautiful public spaces. The conversation takes a candid turn when discussing famous buildings that disappointed in person—Frank Gehry's Guggenheim Bilbao described as "facadeism" and certain parametric designs criticized for poor finishes despite conceptual brilliance. These confessions reveal the gap between architectural celebrity and genuine spatial quality.
Working internationally exposes architects to different budget realities, material access, and planning approaches. While New Zealand struggles with limited resources for bespoke elements, the team explores how collaborating with local craftspeople could produce distinctive architectural moments without breaking budgets. This "small batch" approach to custom design might actually represent the future—creating architecture with a genuine human touch that resists both global homogenization and AI-driven processes.
Perhaps the most compelling insight emerges near the end: the architectural breakthrough might not require overseas travel at all. Looking inward to local craft traditions and small-scale collaborations could yield more authentic design expressions than chasing international trends. After all, architecture's most powerful aspects—temperature, texture, acoustic qualities, social interactions—resist digital flattening and demand physical presence.
Ready to rethink your architectural inspirations? Listen now, and join the conversation about where true design epiphanies come from in our digital age.
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction with Nina Boyd
6:04 - Traveling Through Scandinavia
15:50 - Architectural Exposure and Inspiration
26:48 - Working in International Architecture Firms
35:36 - Famous Buildings That Disappoint
49:36 - Bespoke Design and Human Touch
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This week's episode is brought to you by the brand new Hot Off the Press Raptor APA. The Raptor family includes a surprisingly diverse collection of birds of prey in their kin and stretches to include some of their fiercer ancestors from the land before time. Pale Ale can feel like a similarly broad category, but this one is very much of the more assertive kind Deep gold with piercing piney bitterness and citrus hot flavours. It's a throwback to the relatively recent past. Rip Falcon, hello Raptor. Nice Stoked to have Nina Boyd, architect, traveller extraordinaire and DPP superfan, on the pod this week to discuss the international scene, how to come by your architectural epiphany Buildings that give you the ick and, of all things, finnish sausages. This convo flows like beer in a beer garden, so let's dive in.
Speaker 2:I guess we'll just crack on. So welcome to the podcast, Nina.
Speaker 1:Whoop, whoop hey.
Speaker 3:Super fan.
Speaker 1:There's two people on your side of the world rocking DPP t-shirts, because Cal's got one in Amsterdam as well. Nice.
Speaker 3:We should have a meet-up, just the two of us.
Speaker 1:Super fans.
Speaker 3:I actually, yeah, brought this all the way with me, but I almost forgot and I was like Ben, we've got to be matching wearing our uniforms, okay, well, I want to know what you guys are up to, but if we must, what do you guys want to know what you guys are up to? But if we must, what do you guys want to talk about?
Speaker 1:I want to. I want to cover your guys trip. Well, firstly, I want to you to tell us what the new job's like, and then I want to hear about all the cool shit you guys have recently gone and seen a holiday. I want to know. Doesn't it sound terrible to just brag about holiday? I want to know how you've been. I want to know how you've been inspired. Don't peg it that way, because then you'll make me feel real sad yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm sure Ben will have lots to say about it.
Speaker 1:I just really enjoyed your little. I can't even remember it anymore, it's already blocked out. I just enjoyed your tidbit on Alvar Aalto's studio, Ben I just want to hear more about the international scene. What are we missing out on all the way over here in little old nz?
Speaker 2:everything yeah, true, literally everything. As I was saying before, like it's pretty dire over here at what feels a bit dire at the moment the plane was empty coming back into the country, so there's never a good sign, I feel like things are maybe slightly on the up but it goes to show how bad it is, that's positive. It goes to show how bad it is.
Speaker 5:It is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, today I guess have a discussion about international architecture or just travel in general and see how it goes.
Speaker 3:Thanks for inviting me, guys Nice, to be here from the other side of the world. A beautiful cloudy morning and it's like 10 am for me.
Speaker 1:So are you in Paris, Nina.
Speaker 3:I'm in Paris right now, nice, in a gorgeous little apartment subletting off some girl, so the room I'm staying is full of her things. I'll be subletting my way all around paris for the foreseeable future, so you know, I've just started work, and I've just started my new job here a couple weeks in, which is very nice, but today is actually a public holiday where are you working?
Speaker 3:public holiday in my second week of work nice, go to french yeah, I know, I think the french maybe have the most public holidays in europe, followed closely by italy smart yeah so I've chosen a good month to start work and just at a, at a pretty small studio that does a lot of uh, international work on I don't know fit outs and some kind of architecture and some stuff across europe, and i'm'm working on a project in Prague at the moment. I've never been to Prague, so it's all pretty new and exciting. Is travel all part of the gig?
Speaker 3:I imagine for the directors it's a huge part of it, but for the rest of us I don't know if that's the case, but we'll see what I can get out of it. You know, Trip to Prague wouldn't be too bad is it a French firm you're working for?
Speaker 3:it's like an international, yeah, but it's super international, like my team is like, from all over. There's um people from Spain, poland, croatia, peru. The common denominator is that most of them speak French, and of course I don't, but luckily, like all our clients are communicating in English, so it's been a relatively easy transition, I would say, but I'm only a couple weeks in, so you know.
Speaker 1:Are you taking French to kind of like, get up to speed? I've always thought that like is a terrifying barrier for us from New Zealand working internationally is that we have zero language skills. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can learn right.
Speaker 3:I mean, I did like French when I was at high school and there are little aspects of it that kind of are coming back to me, but very slowly yeah.
Speaker 4:I would like to do some night classes, my pal Exactly.
Speaker 5:That's the extent of my high school.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly so, no, I, my pal, exactly. That's the extent of my uh. Yeah, exactly, exactly so, no, I mean, I barely got a handle on italian at the end of last year and I feel like if I start now learning french, I'll forget the tiny amount of italian that I now know.
Speaker 2:I know I struggle with french so much more than I did with italian. Italian, you know, there's a bit of a rhyme to it. You can kind of just be like da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da. And so we did some traveling prior as well, didn't we? Before we got to Paris.
Speaker 3:We did some traveling. When you came over to look at architecture, we went from.
Speaker 2:Germany. To where did we? I can't remember now. Germany, copenhagen, which is awesome, such a cool city, super vibrant, and we were I was, I was there for six weeks and it was just sunny every single day, didn't see any rain for six weeks was pretty awesome. I think it was like kind of crazy for places like cobenhagen to, you know, have that much sun at that time of year. Everyone was just out really enjoying it, which was so cool. And then where did we go? We went to Stockholm and to Sweden and then over to Finland and saw all the amazing Alva Aalto buildings and studio and whatnot, and then back to Berlin and back to Paris. So nice little loop.
Speaker 3:Nice little loop and places were so much further away than we realized and we literally thought that we could take a train from Sweden to Finland. And then we realized, like two weeks before, that we had to fly because it was like an 18-hour train ride.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, I'd say definitely. As I think I mentioned in the last part, the highlight for me architecturally was like visiting Alva Alto's studio. I just think that was, yeah, really cool. And I guess what prompted this episode was just the discussion around. You know how Alva Alto kind of went and visited to leave for his honeymoon and was so taken by the, I guess, the organic nature of the italian architecture, and so when he came back to finland he had completely changed his, his, his frame in terms of, I guess, things like light or texture or rhythm and scale, and shifted from a real kind of methodical architecture to a much more kind of organic architecture. So you know, visiting his studio, you can really see a lot of the Italian style coming through and things like, you know, the amphitheater and that sort of thing in his backyard, in his courtyard.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just other things like that so. I think, that was my highlight, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure yeah, pretty cool, how and like. This is a classic thing, classic new zealand um issue. I guess, or like trope is that you know these guys and you guys as well. You can do that in a weekend like you. In a weekend you can go very easily somewhere else, be totally inspired, completely change your outlook on life, come back and crack in, whereas for us to do that from here it's like such a big like deal, it's not like we can take a trip to europe for a weekend because it takes your way to travel literally the other side of the world.
Speaker 2:It's a big, it's such a mission to get over there and there's nothing worse than not than like sitting down although I guess, like architects, do it all the time but there's nothing worse than like sitting down although I guess, like architects, do it all the time but there's nothing worse than like sitting down for like three days straight like you said, ben, you've kind of forgotten all the highlights because you've taken three days to travel home it was a whirlwind like
Speaker 1:reduced all of the yeah glamour.
Speaker 3:But wouldn't you also say that that like also it's a little bit diluted these days because, you see, you get it all on your, you get it all on your phone and like your pinterest board and your newsletters from divasade or whatever so different than seeing it so different. I would say not at all, not even remotely I agree, but imagine being like alvar alto in the 1930s or whatever 1940s yeah, whatever, I haven't studied him he like has maybe read some books and then he's like going there and he's not going, there was like all these tourists.
Speaker 3:He's like in the mix, you know, with all these italians, piazza, life and and being like whoa, like this is like mind-blowing, like I feel like I'm on another planet, whereas we're kind of like yeah, like go in and like I've already seen all the reference images, and then you're like wow, the, the, the details of real life. You know they're amazing. But you, you already have this frame of reference and also you already know, particularly with Alva Aalto, why we had wanted to go see it originally anyway is that we had this beautiful book of like what is it like? Christchurch modernism, like all these Miles Warren houses and how he was like specifically influenced by finnish architecture.
Speaker 3:I think what we realized when we spent like a week in helsinki, what most of his influence perhaps came from like two buildings and that the architecture in general there is like very cool, but the aspects of it that were like oh yeah, you can see how this has been. You know, brought back to new zealand was from truly just two projects and we're like it had everything that you come to expect now with like a miles, warren house.
Speaker 3:So we were like, oh yeah, that's super cool. So back then, to just be like I just want to take this, you know, you could imagine him going through taking all these photos I mean like I'm just going to adapt this exactly. But because it's already been so, like filtered through or something I don't know, it's a little bit diluted somehow like and that's not to say.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, like definitely blown away, but also, just like it's just, I guess it's like, I'm almost like oh, we've missed out on that, on that ability to like, change our whole perception of something you've watched a half hour movie trailer before watching the movie yeah, exactly okay, okay, but I think there's a little bit more than that you know like miles were, like he actually worked in finland right for a period of time I don't know, to new zealand, I don't know I'm pretty uh.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, don't quote me on that, I'm pretty sure he did fact check that, but anyway so and I guess like the same with like ian ethfield obviously was hugely influenced by, I guess like the mediterranean vibe.
Speaker 3:That's really true.
Speaker 2:So like, at the very least, what I'm getting at is at the very least, you know, maybe it's not just experiencing for us anymore, but like having like work experience abroad. Like how useful do you think that's going to be in terms of improving your design process or your um architecture in general?
Speaker 3:I don't know. Obviously I'm not a good person to ask, because I've only been working overseas for less than a month, but I do feel like already the budgets are so different that we're specifying perforated mesh everywhere. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Is it that the budget's super different or that the accessibility and materials are so much easier that you can kind of take your pick of stuff a bit simpler? We're so limited here that you kind of like to do anything weird or bespoke, or to target back to the last episode, crafty, yeah, it requires quite a lot of effort, whereas there it's like where's your oyster, because everything's super accessible.
Speaker 3:I think I think it's a combination of all those things absolutely.
Speaker 3:I think, also people trying to build new things, perhaps just because, I mean, I imagine in a city like prague there's know there's areas of new development happening and then there's other areas that are they're spending a lot of money to maintain. You have to probably like I can't imagine the process for designing like I think what I'm working on sort of like an apartment. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to make like for the city to like be okay with you building something. They're just not not gonna let you build any old crap. So I think I think there's like a combination of a lot of things and also like it's working with these developers specifically in my job who, I guess, yeah, from it you know as developers. They're like we are gonna like make this amazing, this is our brand and they have like a beautiful websites that go along with it and spend like like I don't know thousands and thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, probably not, but like a lot of money on renders and like all the stuff.
Speaker 1:It's like just in a different league, I suppose yeah, that focus on plannings, particularly internationally, I think in comparison to new zealand's really interesting. Talking to you know a lot of peers that have worked in in particular in london. You know like it's planning first and building sort of just like an afterthought, whereas here but in terms of consenting and stuff like that yeah, yeah, building first and planning sort of like oh, maybe try, and, you know, ignore that as much as possible, but it's not like the primary thing yeah whereas I find overseas it's far more considered.
Speaker 1:You know, they're really conscious about how well our cityscapes and their environments and what they want them to look like we're here. That's just not really the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but do you think that the reason for that is because we're such a new kind of country and buildings, like owning buildings, is still kind of like a big thing here. But as buildings kind of get more expensive like building, like home ownership, for example, example in europe is very expensive then you know, like the governments might, or people might kind of push the governments to shift from like having incentivizing property whatever to more like lifestyle, because it'll become more about like you know the landlord or the tenants and more like about like the planning of you know how people are living in buildings, like it has been over there for many years you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So she's saying that we shift away from the like independent home ownership thing yeah, I think inevitably is.
Speaker 2:We're going to right. So there's going to be a point in time where housing ownership in new zealand is going to right. So there's going to be a point in time where housing ownership in New Zealand is going to be too expensive, probably similar to like Europe.
Speaker 1:But it's not just housing, it's commercial as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then people will just start wanting different stuff from the governments, right, and that is like when the planning stuff comes in a little bit more.
Speaker 3:I don't think our population will ever allow for that yeah.
Speaker 5:I think there's a big shift there, like from, I mean, less and less people owning more and more, perhaps, then, to the government owning all the houses.
Speaker 2:Like that's a very, very large. I'm not saying the government, I'm saying people still own it. I'm just saying it's less of a.
Speaker 5:It becomes less about home ownership in general and more about a lifestyle, living, renting, wanting um different things from a home well, I don't know, perhaps like the more stringent planning rules and stuff, is maybe just a as a result of just being an older city yeah, there's more care a very young country?
Speaker 3:I don't.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't know if who owns houses or something will drastically change our plans massively, but maybe age and then feeling like you have something to protect we don't have a huge amount to protect or anything.
Speaker 1:But it's not even necessarily protection, like obviously, like the heritage consideration is really high.
Speaker 5:but they still do. I have no idea what the planning requirements are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they do like amazingly contemporary stuff within that, like you know, that old or that heritage framework you know, and that's evidenced everywhere. I'm sure you would have seen some pretty excellent examples of that recently yeah yeah, it's just in general, everything is so dense, just yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's pretty cool, but I've already it's hard. The cities are just so well developed already. It's so hard to compare because, uh, here it's like we've got these big sections that we'd like starting to chop up a little bit more, but there there's just no sections. It's like the in-between spaces which are like so well utilized.
Speaker 1:On your guys' travels. I mean, you've talked to the city thing a little bit. The densification in the last episode as well, ben, were you guys out in like the rural environments or anything as well was the architecture? Was there like good architecture evidenced out in those places outside?
Speaker 3:we drove from like. So we was, we visited helsinki, and then we spent a few days staying in this town called tempe, like north of helsinki, um in finland. So it was super cool and really small. Like what do we think? Like Like the population of Wellington pretty much. Yeah, yeah, it was very it was super interesting vibe Like not what we expected at all, and then we drove slightly further north.
Speaker 2:It's got the most sauna to population ratio in the world?
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually it does. It had so many saunas, even though we just went to the same one.
Speaker 2:They're so good. No, no, we went multiple times because it was so epic between these.
Speaker 3:It was kind of crazy. Between these towns that we visited it was like all fun land. There was absolutely nothing then it was just like big box retail and like these huge highways. It was kind of like I don't know. That's kind of what I haven't. I mean, I've never been to Russia, but there are like aspects of it where I'm like this is kind of maybe what I would feel like. It was like like little, you know, like tower blocks and like 20 huge shopping malls Soviet.
Speaker 2:But the architecture is like big buildings and like big blocks of land.
Speaker 3:So it's like it was weird, it was like driving.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like a walmart with a big car park, you know, but the car park is just like bare land.
Speaker 3:It was buildings in the middle man, it was a weird vibe, but then like you, when you got to the towns, there were like all these little beautiful projects that you could see where they're obviously like invested a lot of money back in, like I don't know between the 40s and the 60s, like getting these beautiful buildings designed by alvar alto for, like the library and these little villages and stuff or townships, it's like a town and then it's surrounded by these big shopping malls, it's still very there's still not a huge amount of standalone building, though it's far less common, unless it's a farmhouse.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, interesting people, just don't want to look like everything is still is far less common, unless it's a farmhouse, you know?
Speaker 3:yeah, see, that's interesting. People just don't want to live like that, so everything is still high density, like what we would call.
Speaker 2:high density is like their kind of medium to low density. You know, yeah, and that's just everywhere.
Speaker 1:So you've got like townships. I don't know a township, a towel pile or something, but it's super high, dense, and then just all the amenities surrounding the outside of it, and then it's just open farmland again yeah, actually you.
Speaker 3:You say that it's funny, like I thought it did kind of feel like taupo a little bit. It was very like you know, they like had its and it's like breakers like it was that kind of vibe.
Speaker 1:What's finished like? Tell me more. I love covenco.
Speaker 3:That's nostalgic as fuck me too. We didn't go there. We didn't go. Yeah, we got it. We had a sausage on the street they do. They're really into giving out sausages, like sausage sizzle vibes, but they don't give you bread, so you just get a sausage and a piece of paper and it goes and the sauce goes everywhere they'll eat sausages in the sauna.
Speaker 1:I should have introduced them to a piece of bread and been like whatever your equivalent of Bunnings is get this outside, and you, honestly, I know, but I don't. One lady was like nothing else.
Speaker 2:Literally One lady was telling us that they usually hang up their sausages over the sauna. So it's like cooking the sausages while they're in the sauna and pour a bit of beer in there to get it nice and seasoned, and they'll just hang around the sauna and then eat their sausages in between. So funny.
Speaker 3:Sounds like a good country. Maybe that was the trip highlight. Yeah, that was good.
Speaker 2:That was right up there. Favorite building, the sauna, I mean sounds like a good country the trip highlight. Yeah, that was good, that was right up there. Favorite building the sauna. I mean, oh yeah, we had, we did some.
Speaker 3:We saw some good sauna architecture though slight, slight segue there was a really nice one in helsinki that I think it was like either a collaboration or just designed by like this japanese architect who was like taking the like idea of the onsen and kind of combining it with the sauna, and that was beautiful. It was like all like beautiful timber and like that obviously specified like a like the kind of timber that smells amazing when it like warms up in the spaces, so it was just like cozy and it was called turi sauna. I don't know.
Speaker 1:That was super nice it does sound like a little it had like a little courtyard I just found out. I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna it's a nudist sauna in this show notes it's not a nudist, share it up
Speaker 3:that's just the normal one yeah, exactly one of us was naked but I don't know, yeah, like so awkward I guess like, obviously, it's such a it's such a huge privilege to be able to go and like travel and go see all this other architecture around the world, and it is like all so stunning and overwhelming. And then I think like, ultimately, though, you're like so lucky to have seen all this stuff, but my take is that it doesn't necessarily change your whole perception around what you're like. I don't think that my like architectural style if I ever had one is like radically different. I think you probably just have a bit more of a thing of like oh, why can't you do that? Or like, for me personally, I'm like super all about living in a way smaller space than any flat or like home I've ever grown up in.
Speaker 3:I'm just like yeah like I can live in a in a small apartment like no problem. That's probably like the biggest takeaway from like traveling.
Speaker 2:I don't know, and without cars as well, is pretty good just being able to like walk everywhere. I think is pretty key.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, walkable city. I mean, that's the only thing I want in life is a walkable city, or bikes.
Speaker 2:All of those Scandinavian countries I would include, you know, and you know also France and Germany and that sort of thing. They just obviously like they're flat, unlike Wellington. It's a bit harder there and I know Wellington's really trying, but yeah, just like bikes everywhere, most people just bike and it's just super convenient.
Speaker 1:It's so much faster, it's interesting that you kind of say, nina, that even seeing all this stuff and being in Europe for the last two years really like it hasn't like profoundly changed your design approach, more kind of like influenced it, like with like, maybe like the minutiae. I wonder if it's that's because of that exposure, like you spoke to at the start of the pod, like that exposure that we've had for a long time through media, of all forms of this stuff, and so when you see it you're like, oh, that's cool, I really like it, but I've seen it before, so it's already had that kind of influence.
Speaker 5:Yeah that rationale does? It does like explain why architects back in the day would have such drastic sort of design direction changes after like a big travel or something yeah but if you're seeing it every day, where are?
Speaker 2:the epiphanies I just I I'm going the opposite direction in this. I I generally feel like you're having epiphanies. After seeing and experiencing those spaces, I know a lot more clearer what I like interesting. So like a lot more clearer, with a lot more clarity should this podcast just become english with ben?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, whatever, I'm a designer mate, I'm dyslexic did you enjoy the densilation?
Speaker 3:this is what happens this is what happens if you start getting this is what happens if you start getting that stupid gemini thing to write all your emails for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, forget how to use english.
Speaker 1:No, nina, I'd forgotten long before that yeah, you said that you've been epiphanized, yeah as well do you reckon that like when? When do you feel like you're going to get the opportunity to put that into play?
Speaker 2:yeah, so. So that's kind of where I was going. I definitely know what I want a lot more but it's so hard to translate it into the type of architecture I'm currently kind of doing.
Speaker 1:Do you reckon there's even the appetite for it here?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's as simple as like, it could be as simple as like what kind of form or what kind of proportions, what kind of rhythm? You'd like you know Years ago, when we visited Pompeii and there's, like you know, the ruins of, like, the courtyard houses that are like the central courtyard, with the water feature in the middle to keep the you know, to keep the air nice and cool when it hits the water and kind of bounces out through the house. I love that Science of Ben.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:And I'm like shit, yeah, one day I'm going to have like a sweet courtyard with a sweet water feature. Don't know when I'm going to use it, but you know it's just a goal, okay.
Speaker 1:So you can have heaps of sandflies at your house. Is that the plan we can deal with sandflies. Every time I think about having a water feature or looking into a water feature as a design solution, I'm like fuck sandflies.
Speaker 3:That's so true. It doesn't have to be big though.
Speaker 2:Don't listen to them, don't listen to them.
Speaker 1:Nina, I'm being too practical. What about this? No sandflies.
Speaker 3:You say I don't know, traveling hasn't really changed my aesthetic. And then you design your house and you have, like your water feature in the middle, the sauna in the corner.
Speaker 1:Your gargoyles, your gargoyles the Parisian terrace.
Speaker 2:Who doesn't want gargoyles? Literally like your terrace out front.
Speaker 3:What else could you have?
Speaker 1:It would be like a Frankenhaus of just like all the international inspiration.
Speaker 2:An obelisk in the middle of your water feature, with Egyptian writing on it.
Speaker 3:And, just like a tabacadilla, built in so you can go and grab some drinks.
Speaker 1:Is this not just postmodernism?
Speaker 2:That's the only postmodernism I would subscribe to yeah, well, that's where new zealand's at right.
Speaker 3:We'll bring it back behind the times because it's really it's changed me to at my core.
Speaker 2:That's a good drink is drinking beer.
Speaker 5:Improved your architecture at all you have like a beer sculpture in your fountain I tried that in university.
Speaker 1:I got hammered and then like before starting like a project, really really late to see if it would inspire me and it did not, it did not work did you have fun, though, did you have fun I think I had fun getting drunk. I don't think I had fun getting a bit that's a, b. That's pretty good get drunk and pull off a b, then I feel like you just had to show up to get a b, to be honest. But is that a low-key? Brag oh, not at all b for brag.
Speaker 2:So, sam, sam and gerard, have you guys ever, or even have you ever considered working abroad, or either wanted to or ever?
Speaker 1:going to. I did a short stint at Hopkins in Dubai Did you yeah, at the end of fall, whoa Crazy. Which was pretty intense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's Dubai like? How long were you there for?
Speaker 1:Not that long. I can't remember living there. It was like Dubai itself as a place to live is pretty horrible. You just live in an expat community and basically the driver would pick me up from the house I was staying in, take me to work and then take me home or I wouldn't go home. We're doing like I think we're pulling like 16 hour days most days, which is real intense but like, again, super international. But with the stuff we were working on was massive. Like I was working on a in a competition team when working on the design of like, a new like village, basically a new gated village community, but it was the entire thing. It was nine acres of development land or something was pretty big.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, it was interesting and that was crazy international heaps of brits because hopkins obviously is a uk-based firm. The brits love dubai also yeah, heaps of filipinos as well, um, and quite a few like eastern european um peeps, so it's really fun yeah, totally absolutely like soul, crushingly like intent, just full-on, just like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a lot of hours I had to do a um to to get well, like to like, kind of like confirm the internship. I had to do a cad test on like the first morning, so they basically gave me a bunch of stuff to draft. Now, like you've got x amount of time to do this and it's full-on, the principal's behind you, like watching you cad and you're like huh, oh god, that's so stressful nina did a cad test yeah, it's stressful it's stressful.
Speaker 3:This is like old school.
Speaker 1:AutoCAD 2D as well. So you're just like oh scripting, oh it's heinous.
Speaker 3:It's intense. I had a job interview for an office in Milan before I got my current job and she was like I need you to model a pyramid in Revit and I could not figure out how to do it. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I was like I was like trying to make a box and then like delete and then make like, and then you know void format and then void out. And then I was like can you just tell me how to do it? Because I, like my math doesn't really work like. I mean, I might be an architect, but the geometry of it, I was just like I genuinely can't figure this out, but I kept trying. And then she's like no, no, that's not it you've got to model all four faces all faces there you go, there you go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was actually quite easy yeah, at hindsight crazy I should have made you guys each do that test to see if you could have figured it out. It was also in rebuttal.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have got there until you told me the the cheat gerard, what about your international?
Speaker 5:just what does the wall tool uh go to a 45 on?
Speaker 3:rebuttal, nah, not wall tool, it's only it's like make a, you gotta make a it's a nice quick way.
Speaker 2:An object, nah, she specifically said it needs to go to a point as well, right, nina?
Speaker 3:yeah, because I was like modelling a tiny square and then like a big square, and then you know. But nah it has to be to a point to crawl, to crawl overseas.
Speaker 5:I have not been overseas to work.
Speaker 1:I've only really been to Australia, so I'm not overly helpful to be influenced, not overly helpful on this overseas influence, thing to be influenced other than being influenced by the Aussies yeah, and you don't use Pinterest and you say that you don't look at stuff on Instagram, so maybe you are.
Speaker 5:Everything comes from Gerard's own mind his own mind is enough of an adventure. We try not to look at too much yeah, yeah, so you can.
Speaker 3:You're still your mind's still open. You can just have like some crazy experience.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I would love to do a little aki tour yeah aki marathon, one might say we actually got a lot of.
Speaker 3:You know we looked at all the Aki Marathon places that they visited. It was helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was done all the hard work for us. So, shout out to the Aki Marathon lads. Thank you very much.
Speaker 5:Dog. In terms of working though, yeah, two minds, I think one mind sometimes working for yourself is really stressful and needing to pay your rent and all that mind. Sometimes working for yourself is really stressful and needing to pay your rent and all that. So it kind of seems like a luxurious holiday in my mind to like go work with somebody overseas for a year or two not 16 hours a day.
Speaker 1:You're probably doing that for yourself at the moment yeah, just move to Dubai, move to France yeah, you want to go. You want to go move somewhere where there's siesta yeah, they have human rights.
Speaker 5:Just to start, this is a starting point, fair point yeah, I don't know, I think, a chance to learn from somebody who's doing some really cool things. What about antarctica? I feel like that's a place that has, like a unique, been there yeah not a lot of architectural influence well, the architecture.
Speaker 2:Isn't it the architecture that?
Speaker 5:is. There is a. Nice is unique enough.
Speaker 1:There's some pretty epic creations out there pretty interesting. Well, yes, yeah, I mean like the actual, like the bases are interesting in themselves but, to be honest, like the forms of icebergs floating in the ocean and glaciers and everything is pretty, it's pretty cool, it's pretty inspiring.
Speaker 3:I knew you were going to say that.
Speaker 1:I've got a hella photo album full of just awesome formed pieces of ice. Yeah, I've actually drawn on quite a bit, I think initially when I set up, I read heaps of it because I didn't have any buildings to put on my website, so I just had pictures of the cool icebergs.
Speaker 3:Amazing.
Speaker 1:Have you made any iceberg buildings? I done any iceberg buildings gotta let some of the influence come through man yeah, I know get bergy, get bergy with it. I'm actually kind of doing an iceberg-esque building. Well, it's more of like a why get? Earthquake bigger underneath it kind of could you, could. You could say it's say it looks a bit like an iceberg in Queenstown at the moment.
Speaker 3:Cool, is it all white?
Speaker 1:No, it's not, it's brown. It looks more like rocks than icebergs, to be honest.
Speaker 3:It's cool, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:You're not wrong, though, gerard. I might have to put a water fountain in my next building yeah, get it done, mate, do it, that's done it's not a water fountain, though.
Speaker 3:It's got to be like the beautiful, perfectly symmetrical, like courtyard very tailored exactly.
Speaker 5:Well, I just I'm a big sucker for those those old school sort of heating cooling techniques that ultimately result in like some interesting forms, like the big lake, like the big pond in front of your house and then like a solar chimney, so just a large bit of your building that opens at the top. It definitely is. Yeah, totally. We were sitting.
Speaker 2:We were actually just. We didn't go to the Louvre, but we went to the park out front the other day. Close enough, Good story Same.
Speaker 5:thing.
Speaker 2:But no, so they got us here. It was a hot day and they've got all the ponds and there was like thousands of people, but, like you, sit around the pond and it was just so nice and cool, you know. So just a body of water to cool the air temperature.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but New Zealand is surrounded by a body of water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why it's always temperate, generally temperate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it still gets hot.
Speaker 5:I think that's the temperature notion to architecture is something that maybe doesn't get played with enough.
Speaker 3:Oh be experiential.
Speaker 5:Yeah, one that we don't play with enough, as with all of my stories. I'm gonna have to reference conor dolman again, because I don't haven't been overseas and have to live vicariously through his your favorite architect, conor dolman yeah your favorite international architect yeah, he's a big dog.
Speaker 5:Recommend now he went to zimthor's the velspar baths. It's just saying like the temperature in each of the pools is different. So like it adds, like this whole another layer to like, the experience of the space. So I think that's something you can't see in the photos or like, because those spaces are so separate you can't see them all together apart from in like a floor plan.
Speaker 1:So the navigation through that space was like, like, like, very worth the trip to see that yeah, I feel like that's true, that's the case, this, so maybe the temperature thing, but I think that's the case for a lot of these international buildings, like there's definitely some like clunkers. I've been to some clunkers that I've like built up in my mind and then you go there and you're like, really, is that it? But then like some of them, some of them, you're like okay, I did not understand any of this from a photograph or from a video or anything. Yeah, yeah, and I think that's. But that's probably just good architecture in general, right like it's literally it's not just a building.
Speaker 1:It's, it's emotion, it's experience like we've talked about heaps this season, which is kind of cool, but I think that's the that's the key.
Speaker 3:It's something that evokes more emotion than just visual if you can capture the best parts of a building in a photo, then you're definitely doing something wrong. Right like architecture isn't architecturing. I actually had a question then for you guys, because I've been thinking about this for ages what is like a building that either you like was totally shoved down your throat at architecture school, or like, since then, that's like you're meant to love it? That you either visited and were like well, this is really not what I expected, or or that you perhaps never liked, but was like in the zeitgeist is like this is an amazing building that you have to love.
Speaker 1:Like I'd be really interested to know. Ben pre-prepared us with this question.
Speaker 3:I know, but it's such a.
Speaker 1:So I've thought about this one.
Speaker 3:I didn't read the group chat so I am unprepared.
Speaker 1:I, for me, it's the Guggenheim Bilbao, like going to. You know, I feel like particularly sort of our, our generation of architecture was one of the kind of quintessential buildings. Yeah, everybody talked about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's Frank Gehry. Frank Gehry in general, right yeah.
Speaker 1:But in particular Bill Bauer.
Speaker 1:Like I'm not going to understate the impact, the societal impact that that building had basically completely regenerated, the city but as a building, it's so disappointing to go there and you realise that a huge majority of it is just facadeism. It's not even building to it, it's just form on structure that is zero function. It's just there for aesthetic and I'm kind of like just boxed out inside. Yeah, that's just framed. You can see behind it, you you know big, cool, sweeping form, and then you turn around the corner and it's just like a lattice like a lattice grid work, framing and you kind of oh god, it solves your weather tightness issues, when you don't have to weather tie anything.
Speaker 1:I was just super disappointed it's amazing to look upon and like it's, it's you know such a, you know, you know pretty, pretty wild form and everything but like that was super disappointing. But then, in comparison, the disney play or the disney concert hall in la those two are sort of like brother sister buildings. Sure is a bit more like the entire form is a bit more inhabited, and so it's way, and I've been to both and that's way more interesting, I think.
Speaker 3:But yeah, the gilgudan baobab to me was, it was a clunker yeah, yeah, that's really interesting because you're right, frank gary was a huge one when we were at architecture school yeah, that's disappointing.
Speaker 5:I found at architecture school you were taught to despise or hate Frank Gehry. You're like, well, that's not architecture, he's just squishing at people. But I've always been massively impressed by the guy. He must be amazing in a client meeting God Incredibly convincing that guy's communication skills must be amazing in a client meeting.
Speaker 1:God, incredibly convincing.
Speaker 5:That guy's communication skills must be reasonable. He could talk you into some weird things, I reckon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, and maybe that's the most amazing part of it.
Speaker 5:Well, there's clear substance to a lot of his work. I think some of it's amazing, but it's just. Yeah, that's a bit of a shame that that one's let down yeah.
Speaker 1:What about you? Ben Well man. Ben doesn't like being negative, can you?
Speaker 2:be honest.
Speaker 1:It's a safe space. I don't know, give it both barrels mate.
Speaker 5:Nobody's going to hear this, I guess like, yeah, some of zaha stuff don't say about zaha don't pick the only female architect and be like I visited the uh, what's it?
Speaker 2:at the fire station at vitra, you know, in the vitra complex, and it's just so like it's crazy, because so it's basically got one focus point and the whole building is designed to that one focus point, including, like, the kitchen and everything which is like pretty cool, but also like the most ridiculous building I've also ever been in and I guess like maybe I'm a little bit too practical, yeah I'm not saying the negative part.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I know, I know it's just it's, it's.
Speaker 2:The whole building would just never be used for what it's intended to be used for, and it just becomes a sculpture and then I kind of think that's a bit of a letdown, but it's still it was really interesting.
Speaker 3:It's cool that people can make sculptures.
Speaker 5:I'm glad to hear it warps three-dimensionally.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's too literal for me. It's like let's take a building and just kind of warp it and then build the whole thing like that and it's cool, but it's also just a little bit too kind of literal, I guess.
Speaker 5:Well, maybe you've had For me.
Speaker 2:For me.
Speaker 5:I suggest maybe you've had an epiphany there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm only doing super rational building.
Speaker 5:A very strong conceptual piece of architecture. Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I'm too practical, gerard. You can't handle when something's not fit for purpose.
Speaker 5:I guess. Well, like that's design. Sometimes You've got to like, trick yourself into things. It's like is it Madagascar where the penguins look the other way to walk off the cliff? Maybe one day you should throw some rational conceptual elements into one of your buildings and see what happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, that could be part of your design development from this journey.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's good points understanding where the line is of what's conceptual and what's you know, what's not actually that conceptual I found when I was this doesn't have to do with going overseas, but earlier when I was starting working I would try push like crazy ideas to of what I thought was crazy to the job I was working at the time and everyone kept saying yes to things. Yeah, but like with each one I've been built the first house.
Speaker 5:And I was like, oh, I'm going to put a wall on an angle and then because it's like double story, so half height, half levels, so I was like oh if I angle the wall then the room below gets more space, more floor area, and then the room above gets more like head area. I was like oh, oh, this is a crazy idea. But then when it's built, it's like it just kind of just works amazing.
Speaker 3:There you go, and then that then that other one.
Speaker 5:You built the um particle board one yeah yeah, the boss at the time was like you're not going to get that through and and then they went rip-roaring ahead with it and loved it. Amazing it was like a full yellow bathroom. I don't know.
Speaker 3:That's the yellow toilet house. That's so cool.
Speaker 1:The urine toilet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's so cool. I visited it the other day.
Speaker 5:It's awesome Nice, didn't you? Yeah, how's it looking? Yeah, it looks mint. It looks like the day quality construction, right there, construction, but I think like some ideas, a ski field on top of a power plant. When it's built, it's no longer like crazy. Oh, this is the realm of reality, but maybe the fire station makes sense.
Speaker 2:So we went. We obviously went there, fucking cool building, but at some point that was like an obscene, crazy idea to somebody Totally.
Speaker 1:Now it's in the land of the living.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Fair Still, that is actually like a power plant and is used as a power plant.
Speaker 5:So it's very, very much fit for purpose. So does the fire station just not have people in it?
Speaker 2:I think that lasts of like two seconds as a fire station. So what is it now? That's just a marketing ploy. It's just literally yeah, it's just you visit it, just look at it, it's an exhibition building.
Speaker 1:Right, I guess it works. It's just the building on show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean like there's a bunch of interesting buildings, like there's a Tadeo Ando building, my favorite building, which my favorite building, which is one of the Herzog buildings, part of like a complex or something. Yeah, like Vitra. So you know the Vitra Museum, which is like the furniture and that sort of thing, it's like in that complex. So it's just used as like for a tourist attraction now. And it is, I mean, like that whole place is so worth going to. I think like highly recommend visiting there.
Speaker 5:One stop shop of inspiration so did so did. Did it start off as a fire station or was it always like a conceptual fire station for the vitro?
Speaker 2:my understanding is that it was a fire station, but now thinking about it, maybe it always just was a conceptual fire station. He's having his epiphany but yeah, I, I can't answer that, I'm not sure. Sorry, yeah, and what about you?
Speaker 1:what any buildings that you sort of had shoved down your throat that were less inspiring?
Speaker 3:kind of a lot, but, being still mine, like I obviously don't have anything bad to say about zaha, but like I visited, you know, a couple of those buildings and it's not even that. It's like not practical. I think that's super cool to build stuff. That's not practical. I think it's more just like the level of finish was pretty average and like this is just basing off like two or three buildings one in guangzhou, one in one outside of copenhagen just really like the finishing's pretty bad. The bathrooms are ugly. You know, like when you know you're like, oh, the architecture feels so right because even the bathrooms are like so beautifully designed and like, yeah, epic it's kind of disappointing when such a letdown you're like well
Speaker 3:like yeah, like just the promise of like this architect is not delivered, but I, I don't know, like I think the whole parametric architecture thing I always was super resistant to, which made me almost a minority at architecture school, and now I feel like we've come so far past, like it's so weird to think about that time period now, especially now, like everyone knows that Patrick Schumacher is like whatever, not a good guy, and I'm just like feel a little bit vindicated, and then I'm also just like, yeah, like I always felt like it just didn't like speak to me and then it just doesn't speak to me, but that's like it's different for everyone, right? Because some people will be like well, this is like phenomenal, and I'm sure there are buildings that are finished beautifully, but I'm still like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not for me era felt like a lot of effort was put into the front end and not much yeah, back end.
Speaker 3:Do you think we're done? In general I know I can't really comment. Yeah, do you think we're done with that?
Speaker 1:I think it's probably been a bit more refined, mainly probably because the tech's more refined. I feel like back in the day the tech was so kind of janky, you got janky results. But now it's so polished Everything's a bit more easy, probably. Maybe, so the parametric solutions are just more I don't know. They just seem more curated what are some of the?
Speaker 3:yeah, what are some of the?
Speaker 2:newer parametric offerings well yeah, who was it telling me? Someone was telling me. I'm pretty sure it was today. I can't remember which firm they were talking about. I thought it was like or something like that, where they basically like we're talking about models like having a work, workshop, chat, you know, kind of like trying to manifest it, but we're talking about, like creating phone models yeah and like they were saying like yeah, whatever firm it is, I'll have to double check.
Speaker 2:But like they basically like make the form out of like these big phone models and just get it how they want it and then basically like just scan it, chuck it in like a ai generator and that kind of generates the facade. I hate that. Um, please, there's like heaps of people kind of scared I'm just saying, that's becoming a thing.
Speaker 1:oh, it's becoming a thing. It's kind of using all technologies at hand, you're still model making. The form has still come from a human mind. You've just used a tool to perfect it.
Speaker 5:You sully it, you take yourself places that maybe you weren't prepared to go, and there's no coming back from that.
Speaker 3:Gerard, if you walked into, if they had two identical pavilions and one was designed by AI and one was designed by an architect, do you think you could go into the pavilion or look at it and know which one was designed by a human and which one wasn't?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think so Definitely. If it was like an architect that liked to design buildings. You know that liked to design buildings yeah, like we all did it yeah, but like somebody that's not true, somebody who like follows, follows through on the details, who you know is like john wardle, making like epic little handles everywhere and like really nice little touches. I feel like you could spot a john wardle with your eyes shut, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you could feel it. I think it's pretty beautiful.
Speaker 5:Yeah, like every time you touched a handle, you're like this is an extremely complex timber profile. Yeah. Paul Joyner who made this, but oh my goodness, so nice.
Speaker 1:It's that level, it's the added depth right the. It's that level, it's the added depth right, that added depth to the building that I think comes through that human, human touch.
Speaker 5:I think yeah architecture, like all these big buildings, conceptual buildings that fall over at detail level, like that's the benefit of like being in a small practice where you can yeah be the designer, but then you get to make sure the design intent comes through at the detail end, and I feel like people are so quick to hand off, develop detailed docs to uh millions or whatever developer contract, that or yeah even to a whole different firm I know then you like, you lose the. You lose the salt and pepper.
Speaker 1:You know, I totally agree I think, being able to carry that intense through from where to go is so important to like realizing the truth, the truth of your building hell yeah it has no heart, it doesn't know what it's trying to do, it doesn't know what doesn't have hands, has no hands.
Speaker 5:Oh fuck, yet I am a robot.
Speaker 4:Maybe I'm a robot from the future, that is like that is so true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I totally agree. I just think I also wonder if, like, maybe that's the opportunity that sometimes New Zealand is missing out on. Is it? Is it like? I don't know what it comes down to is like, is it a question of economics or I don't know? But I think the thing that totally sets apart any good building you've ever been into versus a normal building, that you don't even think twice, it's not amazing. You is that level of detail and like, is there a thing of like?
Speaker 3:Well, in New Zealand, we're dealing with things on such a smaller scale that we should be taking on all this extra. We should be taking on the extra level. We're like yeah, of course, we're gonna also have like a whole part of the scope. That's like designing all the hardware and getting it fabricated, but then at the same time in new zealand, like I don't know, are our services so expensive that it's like no, like everything has to be off the shelf, like I just I really, I really despise that we always have to get everything proprietary. I'd love to know what those meetings sound like where the architects are saying like okay, this is our scope and it's like this, this, this and this and, of course, like it's every like we're gonna, we're gonna budget this much for like all the, all the hardware and all the like. We're gonna make some like beautiful and we're gonna make the kitchen sink and we're gonna get this like this done bespoke, and like that's just part of it, like we, how do you have that conversation with the client?
Speaker 1:I really like. I really like what romana said last week and he's like, if you're running a custom batch of like 20 of something or it then becomes viable and I'm like shit totally, I've never really thought about that, like it's definitely relatively small runs of things yeah true, I think, just be sensible.
Speaker 1:Like don't don't design a custom, something that's like insanely complex and uses like six different materials, so you need six different trades and they all need to interact or anything that's not gonna. That's not gonna like fly, but if you do something that's like still cool and bespoke but relatively simplistic, yeah, it's probably worth it that's so true.
Speaker 3:I think it's just something that you don't. It's not a skill set that lots of architects have and like obviously, yeah, the discussion guys that I had last week and like you, gerard, being in a workshop all day, but a lot of architects like myself like we haven't spent time in workshops building stuff, so that's kind of like a really foreign concept you've only been two weeks your new job.
Speaker 1:Is there any scope for that there?
Speaker 3:A little bit in my office because I think they've made a bit of a name for themselves, developing like super customized joinery and things for like very like small living kind of vibes, Like you know, like they've designed like a custom, like you know, sink that folds down these kinds of things a folding sink, that's right and like they're, they're really into like the beds that like lift up beds and things like that, to like really, like you know, make the most of the space mechanisms yeah, they require, like a little bit of mechanical engineering and and um.
Speaker 3:But what I'm realizing is, like the reality of of even getting those over the line, even though that's probably the main selling point that they're going to employ this. You know, office to do do their architectural work is like you know, specific clients are still like, oh, but actually can we get something off the shelf? Because that just sounds expensive and if it breaks, if something breaks, we can't just go and replace it easily. We have to, like, get a whole new sink specifically fabricated. So can we just like, have something that's already available? So I think it's just a battle everywhere really. I mean, what's going to happen when, like at alva alto, like one of his buildings, the handle breaks and then they can't replace it? What are they going to do?
Speaker 1:break. It's just crafted so well.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, it is cast from brass. The building will break. I don't know what you do in those scenarios.
Speaker 5:I think having a closer relationship with like weird boutique makers, like there's people around who just turn timber so it's like you could get a whole bunch of knobs done by somebody. Of course there are people. If you want to make something, I guarantee somewhere there's some guy who will make a small batch of those for a reasonable price.
Speaker 5:I think it's just yeah, we're so used to. We must wrap all this into a package and put it through one main contractor and you could pull out a whole bunch of those items and call them quite supplied and you and the client go around and find hell yeah find a little makers yeah you could do that sort of thing with like smaller workshops like I often get people coming in and wanting to like elaborate on things yeah, I think yeah, well, that's what robots can't do either, like they can't collaborate with other humans and make friends, and then go and bear with each other.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I feel like in there lies some more meaning of life. Maybe this whole story is that maybe you don't need to go overseas to have a breakthrough, but maybe looking inward and local and smaller God yeah, well, maybe the story is, there's just inspiration, so the future?
Speaker 3:maybe that our next partners will take it small scale get it local, local craft everyone in new zealand between the ages of, you know, 25 and 31 didn't like go overseas.
Speaker 1:Then imagine how like thriving, all those opportunities would be in new zealand yeah, but she says she says one of those people overseas yeah, but like literally I'm like over here but the problem is there's not the opportunity. The opportunities aren't like you know. The market here is not great, so the opportunities aren't like you know. The market here is not great, so the opportunities aren't here, which is a shame.
Speaker 3:But if people were here.
Speaker 5:If you generalize everyone goes overseas. Well, so many people go overseas for. A lot of people Two to three years, maybe four, but then they all come back. So it's like this they're just epiphanized.
Speaker 1:They just come back. Epiphanized Everybody comes back. The call of the motherland is strong.
Speaker 5:I had a very controversial building as my option for one that I feel gets talked up very heavily.
Speaker 1:What's that yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 5:Because I haven't been overseas very much, is it? To Papa. I'd say to Papa no, no it might get me in a lot of trouble no go, please, please, please or save it for the patreon if you don't want to save it for the patreon yeah, bleep it, bleep it yeah, now I'm having a mind blank. What's the um, what's the little chapel down in? Karori um well, it gets talked up as if it's like. Sagrada Familia.
Speaker 5:There's better John Scott out there, but like John Scott's, done some really nice things. It's a pretty nice building though. Well, like I also feel like a gothic piece of church architecture is infinitely more impressive, but we're not out here celebrating the og architects of the day. You know, the very, very early week. Maybe it's exactly. Maybe it's a matter of time, like we only celebrate architects that we can, like rationally think one or two generations and then I think it's five or six generations.
Speaker 5:It's like no, you just made it it's a matter of Five or six generations it's like no, you just made a. It's a matter of location though. It's fucking building ever and we don't care.
Speaker 1:If we're looking at churches, the Gothic cathedrals in Dunedin are celebrated pretty heavily. It's because they have them. There aren't that many in Wellington. The only really kind of Gothic church is is um old saint paul's, which is epic awesome such a cool church it's a
Speaker 5:really cool building and this yeah, yeah, it's very like warm huggy space.
Speaker 3:All that timber, yeah, that red carpet, yeah like I, yeah, obviously not denying john scott's like one of the best architects that has ever ever existed in new zealand. Yeah, but yeah, for me as well, maybe fortuna, just the way it was like just gets about. So high I was like oh yeah, it's really cool, but like I don't know, yeah, it is cool, but it's maybe not like we.
Speaker 1:We won't look to get onto the Fortuna lecture. Sorry, spell it then.
Speaker 2:I think it's cool.
Speaker 1:I think it's cool. I like it.
Speaker 5:The Fortuna lecture they need to invest in some bigger TVs.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, they need to invest in some maintenance as well.
Speaker 5:It's a terrible space for a lecture. It is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, nice toilet, just make sure you wonder what it was like for a sermon, which is like a lecture.
Speaker 3:So maybe the planning's not great. They probably don't need screens.
Speaker 5:There's less pictures if you're just reading from the book. They need a paper, though, or an architecture lecture, they'd upkeep somehow, though. There's a little.
Speaker 3:TV screen.
Speaker 5:Yeah, there's so many like epic churches in new zealand, so I think for it to get singled out it's like well, maybe just because it gets talked about so much well, yeah, we should probably wrap it up there anyway, call it done.
Speaker 1:Awesome to have you on nina, and nice to have your international perspective oh, it's not an international perspective.
Speaker 3:I've just been on holiday for a while more international than ours.
Speaker 1:But um, I hope the new job goes well. I told her that what?
Speaker 2:we're talking about today and she's like oh, has it influenced your architecture? But not, I don't think it has in any way.
Speaker 1:I'm like good, there goes that conversation the answer is the answer is we whisked over that pretty quick but I'm glad it's influenced you ben that's made me feel better about my lack of trouble
Speaker 3:I just, I just don't want to come on here and be like, yeah, so I've like been on holiday for a few, for a while. Um, I totally like I'm the best architect in the world, like I haven't even, haven't even designed it's such a profound impact on me. Yeah, literally here I go, like specifying my tin roof, as per usual awesome thanks for coming on and it's been great nice to talk to you guys.
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