Ep. 62 Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell vs. Hamnet (2025)

Shakespeare’s most famous tragedy might have started with a quieter one, and that’s what makes Hamnet so hard to shake. I’m Lluvia, and I’m putting Maggie O’Farrell’s bestselling historical fiction novel Hamnet up against its 2025 film adaptation directed by Chloe Zhao, starring Jesse Buckley and Paul Mescal. If you love book vs movie debates, this one is a masterclass in how the same story can land differently depending on structure, pacing, and what details the camera can’t hold.

I talk through Agnes as a healer in late 16th century England, how her “strangeness” reads as power and danger, and why the novel’s attention to nature and the woods gives the family story so much texture. Then we get into the adaptation choices: the book’s bold time jumps versus the film’s chronological approach, what gets streamlined, and what the movie beautifully preserves in tone, grief, and performance. Yes, I go into spoilers once I hit the turning point, including what the Hamlet name means and how the story frames the loss of Shakespeare and Agnes’s son.

I also dig into the moments that wrecked me most: the twin bond between Hamnet and Judith, the plague as both a plot engine and a chilling reminder of how illness travels, and the way art can become tribute without “fixing” anything. I end with my ratings for both versions, why the book takes the win for me, and what’s coming next on Books vs. Movies with The Lord of the Rings.

Subscribe for more book-to-screen breakdowns, share this episode with a friend who loves adaptations, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.

All episodes of the podcast can be found on our website: https://booksvsmovies.buzzsprout.com/share

Connect with me: Instagram | Threads | Bookshop | Goodreads | Blog

Transcript

Welcome To Books Vs. Movies

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Books vs. Movies, the podcast where I set out to answer the age-old question: Is the book really always better than the movie? I'm Juvia, an actress and book lover based out of New York City, and today I will be talking about Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell and its 2025 adaptation, Hamnet, directed by Chloe Joubes, starring Jesse Buckley and Paul Meskell. Hi everyone. I'm a little tired today, or I'm a lot tired today. We had I had a very busy week because on Sunday, April 26th, we had a two-show presentation. And on Saturday, we had rehearsal for the two shows, and then I had to go straight to work. And then as I said, Sunday, it was like a 12-hour day. But um, no regrets. It was it's always fun to perform, and especially the scripts that we put up. One of them was written by my friend Denise Stephanie Mendoza Valdez, which is a dark comedy, and it's one of those things where it's like, oh, should we be laughing at these things? But it she makes it funny, and but the subject matter is still heavy, like you're laughing, but it's still heavy subject matter, and you know, performing that can take like can drain the energy out of you. And then to follow that with Orlando's piece, Angustias, which is a horror play, and it's so much fun, and it was really cool to see the effects and everything. But that one is also full of heavy subject matter, and it's a horror play, so yeah, it's emotionally draining, but it's so worth it and so much fun. So I'm not complaining, but I'm still like recovering, I'm still so tired. I feel I was off yesterday and I'm off today, and it's just like, yeah, it I don't know what I'll recover, but we'll get there. Anyway, today we are going to be discussing Hamlet, as I said, and well, we'll we'll get to the spoiler when we get there. So let's I'll start off by saying that Hamlet by Maggie O'Farrell was first published in 2020. And it follows Anyas, who is a young woman who this takes place in the tutor period. I don't know, whenever Shakespeare was alive. Yeah, it takes place during that time period. But anyway, so it follows Anyas, who at this time very controversially, she listens to no one, she is an herbalist, which gives her the reputation of being a witch, all because she knows how to cure remedies naturally. And yeah, that's very controversial. So she she there's rumors all around her that she's a witch and just just a very strange woman. And you know, back in those days, the worst thing a woman could be was strange. So one day she meets a young Latin tutor, and she realizes that they are destined to build a family together. They get married, and unfortunately, their marriage is put to the test. First by relatives who are against the union, and then later on by an unexpected tragedy. So Maggie O'Farrell has written a fictional story, but it is based on William Shakespeare and his marriage and his real life family, but we really don't know much about anyone other than William Shakespeare. Like we don't know much about his children, we don't know much about his wife, we really only know about Shakespeare. So O'Farrell made a lot of the stuff included in this book up. So it is still a historical fiction, just inspired by real people and real events. And this is my first time reading anything by Maggie O'Farrell, and I am blown away. And that's like, I mean, a lot of kudos to the translator. I ended up reading this book in Spanish because that's the only format that it was available in. But I mean, just kudos to the translator because it was very well translated and so beautifully translated as well. So I can only imagine how beautifully it is written in English. So I'm definitely interested in checking out more of Maggie O'Farrell's things. And this book was also nominated for a Goodreads Choice Award for Favorite Historical Fiction in 2020. So there's that. The 2025 adaptation, Hamnet, takes place in late 16th century England, and we follow Anyas, a healer who is sensitive to the world around her. She builds a home with William Shakespeare, this time a local tutor and just an aspiring playwright. The lives that they've built together start to fracture as it's tested by distance, silence, and unimaginable grief. And as I said, the film is directed by Chloe Jiao and it stars Paul Meskell and Jesse Buckley. So now is officially the start of the spoiler alert. So as I keep mentioning, there is an un uh unexpected tragedy that occurs. If you already know about Shakespeare and his life, you might already know what that unexpected tragedy is. If you don't know though, and you don't want to know yet, read the book, watch the movie, and then come back. Because I'm not about to spoil it for you. I know I'm really bad at like giving spoiler alerts, but this time I'm being really good in letting you know ahead of time that I'm about to spoil what that unexpected tragedy is. So now's your time to log off. Come back when you've read or seen the film. But those of you that are still around, the unexpected tragedy is that Shakespeare and Anyas' son Hamnet dies. So this actually did happen. As I said, we don't know much about Shakespeare's family, but we do know that he had a son named Hamnet. We don't know when he died, we know the date when he was buried, but we don't know how he died and what he died of. Just the record keeping back then just needed a lot of work in that area. But we do know that he had a son and he died, and that that I mean, that's a really one of the most difficult things for a parent to go through. So that this is the event that is inspired Maggie O'Farrell to write this story, especially because it is very possible that the play Hamlet was inspired by the events. Obviously, Hamlet takes a completely different storyline than Hamnet's actual life, but this is this was very likely a tribally tribute to Hamlet. And as is stated at the start of the book and at the start of the film, Hamlet and Hamlet were interchangeable, like in that time period. So it was essentially the same name, even though there's an N in one and an L in another. Like it was it was interchangeable. Let me see if I can find the exact quote. Uh okay, so no, I can't find the exact quote, but they were considered the same name back in that time period. So anyway, it is, as I said, inspired by the real-life death of Hamnet, and Maggie O'Farrell did a lot of research, and she was just kind of saddened by the idea that Shakespeare lost his young son, and that we don't know much about him, and so she wanted to create a life for Hamlet and bring him to life in her own way. So the book is split into two parts. There, part one is the before death, and part two is the after death section. So BD and A D. And so the book, part one, as I said, is before death. That part one does jump in time, so we get a brief introduction of Hamnet. At this point, he has already passed away, but he doesn't know that he's passed away. He's kind of like in this void. And then we jump to Anyas and Shakespeare meeting. We jump forward again to they're already married and have children. We go back in time to the circumstances that led to their marriage. We jump forward again to the birth of the children. So it does jump back and forth in time, but all of these events take place before Hamlet's death, and then it ends with Hamlet's death. And then part two from then on goes in chronological order from the moment Hamlet has died until the premiere of Hamlet the play. So part one jumps back and forth in time, part two is chronological. The film is just chronological. We don't jump back and forth, it's just chronologically set from the events of the meeting all the way to the premiere of Hamlet the play. So there were, obviously, there are some changes. There's not too many that I want to talk about though. It is a it it it's a it's a really good adaptation overall. And I think that that Chloe Jiao really captured the essence of the novel, and it is a very descriptive, beautifully written novel, but sometimes that doesn't always lead to it, can make it difficult, I feel, to adapt some, adapt it into film sometimes, just because like you have to get the richness of the novel, and there isn't a lot of dialogue, there's a lot of beautiful descriptions and beautiful events that happen, but not a lot of dialogue is written, and it it this the book takes its time and the film not able to take as much time as the book. What happens in the film does happen a lot faster, but even then, like it still is a slow film and not slow in in a bad like this is so slow, when's the action gonna get started? In this case, I mean slow and just that. It doesn't rush, it doesn't feel the need to rush the events that are happening in the film. It does take its time to fully capture everything, but just compared to the book, it does feel rushed, which makes sense because they have to fit as much of the events in the book into a two-hour film, and that's always difficult. But I think that the director did a very good job in doing so. But one of the things that I did find interesting is that in the book, Anya's father passes away, and so she's under the care of her of her stepmother until her brother comes of age, and then he's obviously the one that gets to um run the house. So and and the the father wrote it into his will that obviously, since she is a woman and he has a male heir, if he hadn't written this into the will, like everything would have just gone to his son. But he did write it into his will that his son would be in charge of running the household and the farm and everything, like he would be in charge of running the land. But the house would belong to the stepmother, if that makes sense. So she would own it, so there would be no legal way for the son to be able to kick her out. Like she she's allowed to live out the rest of her days on her husband's on her late husband's property, but ultimately his son still has say, like the ultimate say in what goes on with the runnings of the establishment. So Anya's and her stepmother do not have a good relationship with each other. The stepmother just like once Anya's mother passed away, Anyas' mother passes away when Anya is is a little girl um in childbirth. And so once the stepmother realizes like oh, she's dead, like she she cares for the children and is like nice to them while the mother's still alive. And then once like the mother dies, I guess so she can be like, oh, you see, look, look how nice I am to your children, whatever. And then like once the mother dies, like she's awful to to Anyas and her brother, but especially to Anyas. And yeah, it's it's so yeah, so Anyas and her stepmother do not have a good relationship. But when Anyas meets Shakespeare, Shakespeare is like immediately attracted attracted to her and enamored by her, and they meet in the woods, and his family tells tells him like she's a witch, she's odd, like stay away from her, but he's more intrigued by her. And then, like, once he gets to know her, it's like, no, I really like you and I want to marry you. And so he asks for her hand in marriage, and the stepmother's like, Absolutely not. There is no way you're gonna marry that man. Like, that man is a nobody, he's a nothing. Like, no, you're not marrying him. And so Anya says, like, okay, I know what we can do to ensure that we can get married. And so they consummate their relationship and she gets pregnant. And at that point, her reputation's on the line, you know. Back then, I said being a witch is an strange witch woman was probably the worst thing you could be back in those days. But no, I forgot that the worst thing you could be back in those days is being pregnant outside of wedlock. There we go. So that's like the worst thing you that you could do back then as a woman who get pregnant when you're not married. So once her her stepmother finds out, and it's one of those things, this isn't not shown in the film, but this is one of those scenes in the book that's just like, oh yeah. I guess that isn't the easy way to figure out if someone's pregnant. And it's essentially like the mu the stepmother notices during the monthly washing of the linens that the dirty, I'm just gonna call it underwear, but like the dirty underwear pile is not as filled as it usually is. So she's like, I know I'm not pregnant. My husband's dead. So it's one of my daughters or Anya. So she goes after her daughters, and her daughters are like, it's not me. And then her other daughter's like, it's also not me. And then that's when she realizes it's Anya. She confronts Anya. So Anya is like, yeah, I'm pregnant, and now we're gonna get married. And the stepmother's like, no, I absolutely I told you you're forbidden from marrying that man. You're still not gonna marry that man. I don't know what we're gonna do, but you're just gonna let your life in shame. I mean, that's not what she says, but you know, because she's still like forbidding this marriage. And Bartholomew, who is Anyas's brother, like the stepmother goes to him and she's like, Your sister's bringing shame upon this family. She wants to marry this loser. You have to, like, I'm not allowing it. And so you can't allow it either. And he's like, Anyas, do you like this guy? And she's like, Yeah. And he's like, Okay, well then go marry him. Like her brother is very much like, You did what you did. I'm not gonna stop this union. And the stepmother's like, How dare you? Like, I own this house. You gotta follow me. And he's like, You may own this house, but I run it. So I say it's okay for my daughter. As the man of the house, and I get seniority over you because I have a penis, I say she can marry him, and there's nothing you can do about it. And then the stepmother's like, fine. And then so that's when she allows it. Because at that point, she can't do anything about it because the man of the house spoke. So that is that's a really long explanation. I'm sorry. This is what happens when I'm tired. I've said it many times, but anyway, so that is what happens. That is how Anyas and Shakespeare end up getting married in the book. In the film, they they don't ask for permission to get married, they kind of just have this intense passion and they can't keep their hands off each other. So they consummate the relationship and she ends up pregnant. And when her family finds out, they disown her, except for her brother, because her brother's cool. But like the rest of her family disowns her, and they're like, You're not our problem now. Go take it up to him. He's the one that got you pregnant. And then so Shakespeare's family is like, Did you get this woman pregnant? Like, we told you to avoid this witch woman, and he's like, No, yeah, I did. And so there's at that point, there's nothing they can do except allow them to get married, and so that's how they end up getting married in the film. One of my biggest gripes of the film, though, is that there's just not enough Bartholomew. Bartholomew, as I said, is Agnes's brother, and Book Bartholomew is so cool. I love Book Bartholomew. Like, film Bartholomew exists, but he's like the definition of a background character. Like he does nothing except, oh, like he does the major plot points that happen in the film that he needs to do, but otherwise, like, and it's just like I'm here to move the plot along, and now I'm gone until I need to move the plot along. And Bartholomew, like, technically, yes, like he does that in the the book as well, but he does play a bigger role, like he he's more than just like a supporting character, and I just love Bartholomew, he just reminds me of my brother, so I was just like, we need more Bartholomew in the film. Like, where's Bartholomew? Barthol, like what a disservice to Bartholomew because Bartholomew is so cool. So, anyway, so there's Anya's is is is very attached to the earth and the woods because of her mother. Her mother was also an herbalist, her mother taught her all the natural remedies, and so she feels more at home outdoors, connecting with nature, connecting with the plants and the trees than she does being at home. And so when her and Shakespeare's first daughter, Susanna, is born, she goes into the woods and gives birth to Susanna out in the woods. And in the film, like she gives birth and Shakespeare comes upon her, and like he just knows where to find her. And so he like they meet up and like he finds her after she's given birth and they reunite and they're just like, Look at we're a growing family of three, look at how happy we are, and all that. So, but in the book, so it's again like a woman giving birth in the woods, how dare she? How dare she give birth in the woods? So, like all of Shakespeare's family is like so offended when they find out that like she goes to the woods to give birth because they're like, We had the room, the birthing room prepared for her. Like, why would she just go out there? How dare she? And then, but when they realize, once they realize like they can't find her, because like she starts having her labor pains, and so she knows that like they're not gonna let her give birth in the woods. So she heads out early, early, early in the morning, and she comes across like the baker's wife and is like, hi, I'm just going for a walk, like, nice to meet you. And then she goes into the woods, and then they can't find her, and they're like, um, like the baker's wife hints at it. Like, I think it looked like she was in labor, and that's when Shakespeare's family is like, How dare she give birth in the woods? Like a respectable woman would give birth in our birthing room. So at that, so Shakespeare goes to Bartholomew and is like, We can't find your sister, and we think she was like about to give birth, and Bartholomew Bartholomew's like, I got you, because he grew up with the same mom. So, like, he knows like his sister and he knows his mom and what they were taught. So he's the one that leads Shakespeare to where Anyas gave birth to their first daughter, Susanna. And so Bartholomew plays a role in getting Shakespeare to Agnes and Susanna, but where was he in the film? Not there. I didn't, I'm and I am a little bitter. I am a little bitter about the lack of Bartholomew in the film because, like I said, reading the book, I was just like, Bartholomew, I love you. You're so like I said, he reminds me of my brother. So I just have a special place for Bartholomew in my heart because it's like, you're a good brother, you're a good brother. I have a good brother too, you're a good brother. So that that happens as well. So we need more Bartholomew in the film. Anyway, so later on, she's giving birth to Susanna. Shakespeare works with his father, his father's a glovemaker, and he hates that job. Occasionally he works as a a Latin tutor, that's like his side gig. But overall, he's getting increasingly frustrated with being in Stratford, working these jobs that he's he doesn't love. And so Anyas talks to Bartholomew and is like, maybe you can find a way to get Shakespeare to London so that he can he can work out there. And Bartholomew's like, okay. And in the film, Anya is like tells her brother to like, why don't you send Shakespeare to London so he can have a theatrical career? And her brother's like, Yeah, I can do that. And so that's what he does. In the book, though, Barth, like Anya does have a conversation with Bartholomew and is like, yo, my husband's not happy. He's growing restless because this work isn't satisfying him. So maybe you can like convince his dad that his dad needs to set up a glove shop in London. And like, whatever happens once Shakespeare's out there happens, you know. They don't really need another glove maker out there. It's a city, it's they're full of glove makers. But once he's out there, once he's gone out of Stratford and he's in London, whatever happened happened, you know. So her brother's like, I got you, girl, because Bartholomew's cool. Bartholomew's super cool. I love Bartholomew. We need more justice for Bartholomew. So that's what he does. Bartholomew like approaches Shakespeare's father when he's like at the pub, once he's had a few drinks in him, and he's like, you know what would be like beneficial to your to your glove company is if you start a glove, expand your company in London. Like you can stay here and and make your gloves, but your son can like make gloves in London and like you know, and he's like, that's a great idea. I'm glad of I thought of it. So that's what he does. He sends Shakespeare to London to like expand his glove factory and then I mean his glove company, and like, yeah, once once Shakespeare's there, he starts, he gets job, he gets a job at like um as as a like small theatrical jobs, and eventually it starts growing and expanding until he becomes a famous playwright that he is. But his family, and no one in Stratford really knows how famous he is until much later. But his family does eventually figure out like you're not working in the gloves anymore. And he's like, No, I'm not. But there's what are you gonna do about it? I'm already in London. And they're like, Okay, I guess as long as you're sending us money, whatever. And yeah, so that's what and and like even uh Shakespeare's mom tells her husband, like, why are you sending him to London to make gloves? Like, that is the dumbest thing you can do. Do you know how many glove makers there are in London? Like, it's not gonna serve you. And her husband's like, excuse me, I have this really great ABS, so he's going. And his wife's like, All right, I tried to warn you. So the circumstances of Shakespeare heading to London are a little bit different in the book and the film. Anyas also has a hawk, and this hawk plays a pretty big role in the film. Like, once uh the hawk dies shortly before Hamnet dies, and the hawk continues to serve as kind of like a guide to Hamnet in the afterlife. The hawk plays an important part in like part one of the book, not so much in part two. So, like the the hawk plays a is is a pretty strong like metaphor in the film, and in the book it's not as important. So I thought that was interesting. Like it's still a beloved hawk, very important to Anyas, but just not as big a role as it plays in the film. We do get, we we get and one thing I really loved about the book is just how like so much brother love. Yes, I talk about my brother a lot, it's just me and him. I love my brother, he's great, and so I I have a lot of I think everyone should have an older brother. I don't know about younger brothers because I don't have experience with younger brothers, but older brothers. I think everyone should have one. Of course, not everyone does have one, but everyone should have one. But anyway, I also really, really loved the relationship between Hamnet and Judith. So Hamnet is Hamnet and Judith are twins. And so Anya's always always had this vision of like at her deathbed, she was going to be surrounded, like on her deathbed, it would be her on her deathbed and then her two children with her. So she is only expecting to have two children. When she gives birth to Hamnet and Judith, she's forced, since Shakespeare's off in London by the time she gives birth to Hamnet and Judith, she is forced to give birth in that damn birthing room. And so she gives birth to Hamnet first, and she's like, Okay, I have my two children, and then she starts having labor pains again, and then she's like, What is going on? And then the midwife is there, and she's like, Oh my gosh, you're you have twins, you're about to give birth to another child, and then Judith is born. And so Anya is very confused about like, but I'm supposed on my deathbed, I'm gonna have two children, and then Judith looks like she's stillborn, and then she ends up not being stillborn, and but she is sickly for the rest of her life. So the goal was like once Shakespeare earned enough money in London, he was gonna buy a a nice house big enough for for everyone, and Anyas and the children were all gonna move to London with him. But after she gives birth to Judith, it starts becoming an excuse. Like, Judith is sick, Judith is uh Judith is sickly, she needs to be surrounded by fresh air. If she goes to London, she's gonna die. And then the so yeah, the family ends up never moving to London to ensure because obviously now that she's given birth to three children, Anya is determined to keep all three children alive because she's like, in my vision, I I only have I'm on my deathbed with my two children. I am like, I'm gonna change the vision so that all three of my children are on my deathbed. And so they never end up moving to London because it's like Judith needs the fresh air, she needs it, it's just here we have like the woods, everything I need to take care of her medically that I can make is here. And so they never end up moving to London. There is a a beautiful moment in which like the relationship between Hamnet and Judith is beautifully portrayed in the film, but we get a lot more of it in the book, understandably, because there's more time to to fully flesh it out and describe it in detail. But it is still beautifully depicted in the film. So not complaining, not complaining the way there's lack of Bartholomew. There's plenty of Hamnet Judith moments in in the film, but just the the scene in which Okay, so we are approaching Hamnet's death, proving Anyas' vision right. But because of the way Judith was born, the fact that she was always a sickly child, she thinks she has to protect Judith. And so once Hamnet dies, like she can't stop beating herself up over it because she's like, I spent so much time focusing on Judith, thinking she was the one that was gonna leave me, that I completely ignored Hamnet. Although I don't know that there's much she could have done for Hamnet because so as I said, we don't know how the real Hamnet died. We just know when he was buried. So Maggie O'Farrell wrote it that envisioned him dying of the bubonic plague, which makes complete sense considering the time period that this all happened in. But it it's the the film, I mean, the book, it's really fascinating. And I don't blame the film for not including this because this is so I mean, it would have taken away, like it it's not necessary in the film to know how they got the pla how the plague arrived to the Shakespeare House. But in the book, Maggie O'Farrell does write like step by step, like how it happened. And it's like there's like fabric that was that like starts off in London and it's handled by people who have the plague, and then it gets it, it goes, it it gets shipped off to where eventually it gets to the dressmaker in Stratford, where Judith likes to volunteer and help the dressmaker or seamstress. I don't remember the exact I don't know the she something along those lines. This was like I said, I read I read it in Spanish, so I don't remember the exact translation, but it what you need to know is like dressmaker, seamstress, something along those. She works with fabric. And so when the shipment arrives of of this fabric from London, the seamstress slash dressmaker, whatever, calls Judith over and is like, Judith, check out this fabric. And then she opens the box with the fabric, and Judith is like, wow, and she starts handling it, and that's how Judith ends up with the plague. So, like I said, I don't blame the film for not including this. It was just something that really captured my attention in the book that we we see this, the the journey of the the plague traveling from London, and everyone that it crosses, I mean, I didn't include everyone that it that came across its path because the we never see those characters again. They're just people that that that are handling this delivery. And everyone that it comes across, everyone that it affects, everyone that it touches, and it like, and then thinking about this book came out in 2020. So, like when this was published, like by the time this was published, the I believe it was published in March of 2020. Don't quote me on that. But the point is, it's not like Maggie O'Farrell, like it's it's just sheer coincidence that like we were reading the story of this plague traveling from person to person until it reaches the family that's gonna be that that we're focusing on. And so we're gonna see firsthand how that's affected. And it's like this came out, like I can only imagine the people that read this in 2020 when it came out, and it's just like this is exactly how COVID traveled, the seemingly harmless interaction with someone who already had COVID, whether they knew it or not, affect like they passed it on to someone else, and that person passed it on to someone else. And it's just like, wow, the parallels, the unexpected parallels, and it's just pure coincidence that this book came out in 2020. But anyway, so sorry, sorry to go off on that tandem. I just started nerding out there. But anyway, so we we do see exactly how the plague traveled from one until it got to Judith. So Judith gets the plague, and at that point, and in the book, there's hints that Hamlet has it, that Hamnet has it already, because he feels a little sick, he feels a little fatigued, but it there it's just like little hints that he has it already. Nothing to like necessarily alarm you, but it's like if you're if you think about what, if you think about like what, like just little little breadcrumbs, little breadcrumbs is what I'm trying to say. That wow, he possibly had it, or which makes sense because that's his twin and he spends a lot of time with his twin sister. And in the film, there's really no hint that Hamnet has it at all, which I I don't think it necessarily took away, like the little breadcrumbs, I don't think necessarily took away from what happens next. But I I do feel like it came more as a shock in the film, just because he is completely healthy. And then so again, shout out to Brotherly Love. Because what happens in both the book and the film, like you said in the book, Hamnet's already starting to feel a little off, and his sister's just getting worse and worse. Everyone is convinced that she's gonna die. She, her fever's not breaking, and it's one of those things like if it hasn't broken at this time, like all you can do is make her comfortable. But obviously, like Anya is like, I'm not gonna let my daughter die, and she does everything in her power to like save Judith. Um, and then while everyone is asleep, Hamnet goes down to where his sister, because obviously she's not staying in the room with him, they have like a separate area for her, and because they're obviously they're trying to keep the the plate from spreading to him, but at this point he already has it in the book, not in the film. But so Hamlet and Judith love, like they're so everyone says, Oh, you two look so much alike, blah blah blah. And so they in their minds, when they like they they switch outfits sometimes and they they like to switch places with each other, and everyone makes them think that they've succeeded, but everyone knows that Judith is still Judith and Hamlet is still Hamlet, like they're not fooling anyone. So Hamnet at some point is like, I'm I'm gonna be brave, I'm gonna be the man of the house. My dad isn't here, I'm gonna be the man of the house and be brave and take my sisters and and switch places with my sister. And if that means that death it takes me instead, I accept it. But I'm gonna be brave and switch places with her. So in his mind, he's fooling death into taking him instead of his sister. So he goes to where his sister is to the to the bed where where they have his sister, and he pushes her um to like the other side of the bed, and then he gets in on the side where she was laying down and is and is like, I'm gonna take your place, and death is gonna take me instead. I'm gonna make it think. I'm gonna lay down where you're laying down, and I'm gonna make it think. It's taking you, but it's really taking me. That moment, oh my gosh, that moment just hit so hard. Um, like brothers are so I just love my brother. I don't know that he would he would have switched places with me, but I'm gonna track that up to the fact that it's twins. And twin sibling dynamic is completely different from what I understand from like what what I've read and heard other twins talk about. It's it's completely different dynamic than like non-twin siblings. But anyway, so that I was just like, ugh, that's so heartbreaking, Hamnet. You're such a good brother. And so they switched places, and when everyone wakes up in the morning, Judith's fever has broken. But now Hamnet has taken a turn for the worst. And he goes very, very quickly. Like he goes so in the film, especially, he goes very, very quickly because he went from being like completely healthy to take switch switching with his sister. And I guess you could say, like, I mean, he's like in not all like he's sharing a bed with his sister. So not only is he inhaling everything, but he like literally lay down where she was like sweating it all out, so like it's absorbing everywhere. So I guess it like it kind of makes sense, but it is more a little bit more shocking in the film because he goes from healthy to like dead in a matter of hours. But I think those breadcrumbs in the film, uh I mean in the book really underscore that like if Judith was on the brink of death, but was brought but was able to be saved, Hamnet probably could have been saved too, because his he was so showing some he was showing some sickness, uh, some some symptoms. Mind you, there's symptoms that could easily be like he could easily ignore or like push through, because they're not it, it's it wasn't um anything like, you know what I mean? Like when you start to feel sick, there's like certain symptoms you can like push through to make it through your day. And like if you don't tell anyone like I'm feeling sick, they probably wouldn't know that you're feeling sick. So like those breadcrumbs are enough to like alert us, like he probably has it already, but because he's pushing through and everyone is so focused on how bad Judith is, like it's easy to be like, Hamnet's fine, I don't need to, and it's like if he had started getting treated at the same night, at the same time Judith was, he might have survived as well. And that's one of the things that like I think the breadcrumbs work in that in the book's favor in that sense, in terms of of Anya's guilt. Cause it's like I I was so focused on Judith, I did not even think about Hamnet. And mind you, showing like symptoms in film that are not like the major symptoms of the plague, which is like the the swelling of the lymph nodes, and like it's just harder to show those. So, like I can understand why he went from like completely healthy to like dead almost immediately. But that I just wanted to bring that up. But yeah, it was just like just there's just so much brother love on from Bartholomew and Hamnet towards their sisters, and I'm just like, brothers, brothers, you're such a pain, but you're so great. So yeah, but at uh at this point in the film, once Hamnet dies, we do see him in like the void that I mentioned occurs in the book that that like starts off the book is Hamnet in this like void. So we see him in the same void where he's like calling for his mom and his sisters, and he can't, he has no idea where he is, and he's just like stuck there. We see him a few times in this void, and then I will let you know how he gets out of there. So in the book, a lot more time passes. I think about four, it's a about a four-year um timeline between Hamnet dying and Hamlet the play premiering in London. The film, it's not really quite clear how much time has passed. Um, like it it just seems like it could be a few months, it could be a year. Like, it doesn't seem like four four years have passed. And that's okay. I mean, like the timeline isn't that important, other than maybe that's I mean, Maggie O'Farrell did a lot of research. So between Hamnet dying, the real Hamlet dying and the real Hamlet premiering is was probably about a four-year time span. I'm assuming, because like I said, Maggie O'Farrell did a lot of research when writing this. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's why she included the four-year timeline. And not a lot happened. Like there are Anya and Shakespeare do start repairing their marriage a little bit because this Hamlet's death is on the brink of breaking it up completely, which makes sense. A lot of a lot of marriages don't survive major life tragedies like that. It's it's just it's it's hard, it's difficult. But there's moments in which in in where we see like Shakespeare coming back and and and him and Anya connecting, um, we get a little bit of information of Judith and how she goes from this little girl to a young lady and just growing up kind of lost without her brother, and just like, what would he look like? Would he, would we still look alike? Um, I mean, obviously it would probably be harder to tell them apart at this point, but it's like, would he still have my face just with like short hair and maybe like some facial hair going on? Would he or would he look completely different for me than this at this point? And so just her growing up without her brother and feeling a little lost without him. There does reach a point in which Shakespeare just stops coming back and they don't hear from him for a long time. And it's kind of like he gets so wrapped up in writing Hamlet, but it's also like, I just don't feel like you wanted me there kind of situation. So yeah, so the timeline, this all just happens a lot faster in the film. I definitely don't think it takes place in four years because I'm pretty sure it's like the same actress playing Judith by the time. Anyas' stepmother makes a reappearance to tell her stepdaughter, like, look at this loser you're married to. He wrote a son of a play about your son, and it's a comedy, and she's just there to like stir up drama and try to get and still try to be like, I told you so, I told you you shouldn't have married this man. And Anya says, like, get out of here, like just stop, just stop, like, go away. But she is a little, but she is very like concerned because she was like, What? So Anya's can't can't. Anyas can't read, Anya's can't read, but she does know how to at least read, like she does know how to spell Ham Hamlet's name. So when she sees the like poster promoting the premiere of Hamlet, she's like, That is my son's name, though. What's going on? And so she tells Bartholomew, Bartholomew, Bartholomew is an is at least in this scene, but he still he still doesn't play as big a role as he does in the book. But she tells Bartholomew, like, you need to take me to London. I need to see what this is about. And so he takes her to London. And at this point, like I said, Shakespeare hasn't, hasn't been, hasn't communicated with them in in a long time. So she's also like, is he married to someone else? Like, did he just completely forget about this family and he moved on and he's married to someone? So he he finds where he lives and she goes up to his apartment and she's like, it's a very small little apartment, clearly meant for one person, and it's clear only one person is living there. So she's like, Okay, well, he's not here, but I still need to see what Ham this Hamlet is about. So she goes to the globe and watches a performance of Hamlet. And I will say that the film did make this a lot more clear to me. Where and then she sees the play, and at first she is like upset by the circumstances going on, and then as she keeps watching, she realizes that this is a tribute to their son. And the film ends really beautifully. The book ends beautifully as well, but I thought it was just really poignant how the actor playing Hamlet is dying on stage. Spoiler alert for Hamlet the play, I guess. If you don't know, everyone dies. It's one of the Shakespeare plays where literally everyone dies. So Hamlet is dying, and then Anyas reaches her hand out to him, and she smiles and laughs for the first time since Hamlet's death. And then we cut to the void where Hamlet is, and he sees he finally sees an exit, and this exit leads him into his mother's woods. And it's like this beautiful metaphor for him. His mother finally being able to move on, or I should say his parents finally moving on. Well, moving on is the right word because I'm sure you don't ever move on from like a death of a child, but you know, accepting it, coming to terms with it, being at peace with it, whatever the most correct term is in this situation. And so now he's able to move on, leave the void and move on to whatever's the afterlife or whatever you, the reader or viewer of the film, believe in. So yeah, it's a really beautiful film. It's a really beautiful book, and I highly recommend both. Huge shout out to the entire cast of Hamnet because they were all fantastic. Jesse Buckley deserved that Oscar. Like the scene where Hamnet dies, like, it's just so, it's so good. And yeah, um, it's just so it's she she deserves it. And like every everyone acted so well in that film. Like, there's not a weak link, I would say, in that film. Everyone is so like acts so well. Huge, huge shout out to Jacoby Jube, who plays Hamnet, because man, that death scene, he did so good with that death scene. And I imagine it's was painful to die of the plague because he made it look so painful to die of the plague. Like his face and the the sounds that are coming out of him and and the way he's crying, because it just like this sickness is killing, it's killing him, but I think he's crying more because of the pain he was in. Oh my gosh, like huge, huge shout out to that, to that little boy because he captured that so well. Like acting acting can be hard. And or is is hard in its own way, but for him to, I mean, the way he like he just did it so well, man. Like that scene hits hard between his per like his his agonizing death and the way he's able to portray the agonizing death, followed immediately by Jesse Buckley's reaction to his death. Man, that scene just hits so hard. It's so hard. And shout out to the casting director as well. I mean, she or I don't the the casting director did a really good job casting this film. But I also thought it was I loved that they cast Noah Jup, who, as you can probably guess by the last name, is Jacoby Jup's older brother. And Noah plays Hamlet in the play. So we have someone related to Jacoby playing what is Shakespeare's tribute to his son. So that I just thought that was really cool that they that they cast Jacoby's real life older brother to play the representation of him had he gotten to grow up, or not grow up, but you know, grow older. So yeah, I really loved that detail. But honestly, I I have nothing but good things to say about both. The book I rated four stars. The film I rated four stars. I am gonna say that the winner is the book. I do give it to the book just because it's so beautifully written that we get a lot of Bartholomew. I'm a huge Bartholomew fan. They said he reminds me so much of my brother, so shout out to Bartholomew. I'm gonna keep shouting him out. Everything, there's just so much more rich detail about the relationship. Relationships, the relationship between Hamlet and Judith, the relationship between Anyas and Shakespeare, the relationship between Anyas and Bartholomew, the relationship to between Agnes and the land. So it's just able to go in so much more detail and it's so rich and well written. And and that journey, like I said, the journey of following the plague from London to Judith. It I don't know. It I just found that so fascinating. And and yeah, so I do give it to the book. But, but obviously, I still rated the film four stars. So it is still a very, very, very good film, and it's still worth checking out. I recommend reading the book and watching the film. I do. Like the film is not a skip. I I do think the book was better, but the film is definitely still worth checking out. And and yeah, check it out, love it. I don't think there's any way to not love it. Just the acting, the the and like Chloe Zhao, as I said, did a very good job taking her time telling this story, but not making it feel boring. And I don't think you could feel bored watching these actors because they're so good. And like I said, shout out to Jesse Buckley and Jacoby Jube because just that scene, they captured it so well. So yeah, check them both out. I highly recommend both of them. If you liked what you heard, please leave this podcast a review, share it with your friends, and tune in next time when I will be talking about The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien and the Lord of the Rings trilogy films, directed by Peter Jackson and starring Sean Aston and Elijah Wood, amongst many others. Such a big cast. See you next time. Bye.