All-In Design
"All-In Design" is IIDA Alabama's podcast that invites you into the dynamic world of commercial interior design. Immerse yourself in the artistry, innovation, and inspiration that shape the spaces where we work, collaborate, and create. Discover the latest trends, cutting-edge technologies, and timeless design principles that define the ever-evolving landscape of commercial interiors.
All-In Design
Episode #36 - Interview with Bethany Johnson
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Join us on this episode of All-In Design, where we speak with Bethany Johnson of David Baker Architects. Learn about Bethany's journey from Auburn to Atlanta and then to Birmingham, following her desire to help people and make a difference in their lives through interior design and multi-family housing. We also learn about her "Hot Takes", as it relates to interior design, and also about Mark's brief stint as a writer.
From a comfy sofa in the IIDA Alabama recording studio, this is All In Design. Hello and welcome to All In Design IDA Alabama's podcast. Thanks for listening. My name is Chad Moore here with my co-host Mark Griffo. Hey everybody. And we are continuing talking to designers that are new in the industry and we've got a fellow member of the IDA board with us. Mark, if you want to introduce who we have today.
SPEAKER_05I will. I will before I do that because you know this is my new thing. Oh yeah. It's to make the guest uncomfortable while we just talk to each other. Yes, yeah. All right. Hit me, Mark. Here we go. Well, we're back home now. Oh, that's true. We're back in home base because the last episode we were in Chicago we were at Merchandise Mart we were we had we were in a big glass terrarium I'm kidding it was a very nice thanks base pod and in the middle of Monday afternoon Merchandise Mart people taking photos with us and now we're back home in a very glamorous conference room with no windows filled with filled with boxes supplies looks like a giant old printer and no one if anybody needs an old printer just let me know and no one taking photos of us
SPEAKER_04yeah I mean the eye doing it in Nikon in Chicago we were in we were in it was the front of their showroom and it's you know Monday afternoons that March busy you know and we had all these people I don't know how many photos that we ended up in but there were photos we recorded for about an hour and you know people are wandering by and you know it did feel like we were a zoo exhibit you know we were like you know had a little plate you know podcast you
SPEAKER_05know and some people had like legit like cameras yeah like not like just their phone but like professional photographers right you know yeah big lenses and everything it was pretty cool and then we made the think space uh social media of like our top right favorite things of neocon and it was me and chad and jonathan johnson in their pod having a podcast so yeah um we probably got an extra two listeners probably yeah we probably did yeah so anyway but with this with this episode we're gonna get dozens of new listeners Oh, yeah. So to our guests today, I'm very excited to introduce our friend and fellow IIDA board member, Bethany Johnson. Bethany is a designer at David Baker Architects, which is here in Birmingham, and then also has an office in San Francisco. So I should have left that as a quiz. Is it just two offices? I think it's just two.
SPEAKER_06Well, actually, we have an Oakland office and an LA office.
SPEAKER_05Oh, man. See? Okay. I messed up. my own pop quiz let's start over okay welcome to all in design you know Chad I've been messing yeah okay so David Baker Architects San Francisco I think you guys should update your website I'm gonna go back and look at this it wasn't my fault I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure it said San Francisco and Birmingham and then probably if I kept reading it said Oakland and LA but you don't really expect that you don't expect to be like oh you have an office in Birmingham and then where else San Francisco Oakland and LA. Or the opposite. That's true.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Or if you're in San Francisco, where's your other offices? It's in Birmingham. Yeah. Where's
SPEAKER_06Birmingham?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. So anyway, I will, I will shut up and let Bethany take it from here. And we're glad to have you on the show. If you want to tell folks a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So I'm actually born and raised here in Birmingham, Alabama. Um, went to Auburn for college, graduated in 2021. Um, and I started my career in Atlanta. I worked at a millwork company there and I I ended up here in Birmingham at David Baker. I've been here for the past three years. It's been good. It's been great.
SPEAKER_05Did you, so did you want to, did you go to, when you went to Auburn, did you go to Auburn for interior design?
SPEAKER_06Yes. So I actually toured, um, in high school, their architecture program. So I wanted to do interior architecture.
SPEAKER_04And where are you from?
SPEAKER_06Kind of trustful area. Okay, yeah. So I wanted to do interior architecture, and I toured their architecture building, and there were some projects in the hallways, and I was like, this does not look like what I want to do. I don't want to build stuff, actually. So I was like, the next best thing would be interior design. So I didn't tour interior design, but once I got to college, interior design looked great. It worked for me, so that's how I got in to interior design
SPEAKER_04cool okay and so you how'd you find your job in atlanta right so you're in you're in auburn you got an internship there
SPEAKER_06yes i had an internship uh randomly got it um maybe like may of that summer and that was like the first offer i got and i was like i don't want to stress about this anymore so i accepted it
SPEAKER_04um and and randomly did you how do you do that just send out yeah feelers i applied it was like
SPEAKER_06searching on google linkedin for um jobs, internships, and yeah, they were the first people to write me an offer, and I was like, sold.
SPEAKER_04Did you know anybody in Atlanta?
SPEAKER_06My sister is actually in Atlanta, so I had family there. Okay, good. Also, that was another thing stressing about housing, looking for internships out of state. Had my sister in Atlanta already, so that was easy. So I just lived with her for that summer. And ended up working there throughout that summer. And they offered me a full-time position in June of that summer. And so I accepted it. And I was like, job out of college, perfect. No stress again. Then I started working there full-time in August. And it just turned out not to be what I wanted it to be. And the commute was so long with Atlanta traffic. And I was like, this is kind of bad. So I started applying. Right. So how long did you work there? I worked there including internship, I guess, nine months. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So like
SPEAKER_05nine months. And then you had your fill of Atlanta. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I think I was like, it's time to go. It's time to go now. Everything was like, finding an apartment was so stressful. I had like three roommates like fall out or like fall through. and did not like the job anymore. The traffic was horrible. And I was like, maybe Atlanta just isn't for me. So I'll start looking at other places. So I actually found my current firm on Instagram. They did the Jenny's in Birmingham.
SPEAKER_05I saw that on the website today. Did you? I did. Yeah, they did the Jenny's. When I was reading very quickly.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. The Jenny's was not in Oakland or LA, so you couldn't have seen it there. But did the Jenny's there. Well, I saw the Jenny's and I was like, this looks cool. And I did some research on them and they're actually affordable housing, which I thought was, well, that's double cool, because I've always wanted to do affordable housing, but In interior design, when I was in college, there was no one that I knew that was doing interior design or that really wasn't talked about in our classes at all, especially multifamily housing. So I didn't really know a way I could break through in that field. So I found them, found out they did affordable housing, loved their design philosophy and their company values, and I applied. And they reached out to me. They were one of the first people to reach out to me after I applied for multiple jobs, and I interviewed and moved back to Birmingham.
SPEAKER_04You make this all sound very easy as far as finding jobs.
SPEAKER_06I know. I mean, I got really lucky, I think, honestly.
SPEAKER_05Just moved to Atlanta. Had a job before I got there, you know. Decided I'm done with here. I'll just move to Birmingham.
SPEAKER_04I got this job. Simple, yeah. You know. So what... What drew you to affordable housing?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so I've always loved interior design and I didn't know what I wanted to do in interior design. In life, you want to have a bigger purpose. It's not just all picking cute colors and stuff like that. Speak for yourself, Bethany. But I was like, what do I want to leave my mark for? And as I got older and became more aware of just the world around me, I really found that design also has a big impact in mental and emotional health and just well-being in general. And I was really drawn to kids And kids often are put in situations that they can't control, especially like housing situations. And so if you are able through design to impact a kid's life and impact their development positively, I thought that that was a great field to get into. That's how I was drawn to affordable housing. And that was like kind of merging two of my desires into one. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_05What was, just out of curiosity, because you mentioned Instagram. And so it was a David Baker Architects Instagram ad on there. What were they advertising? I mean, were they advertising the job or were they advertising the firm?
SPEAKER_06I think it was just the firm. I'm not even sure if it was an ad. It was on my interior design account. Or was it just Jenny's Ice Cream? I mean, honestly, I don't remember. I just remember seeing Jenny's Ice Cream and I looked into it and I was like, okay, this firm looks kind of cool. They're in Birmingham. And also, I'm a big explorer. I wanted to like leave Birmingham. And so when I applied for this job, I really wanted to go to the California office. So I was like, I can go to California and explore
SPEAKER_01there. The one in San Francisco? Yeah. Or Oakland or LA. Yeah. Multiple options.
SPEAKER_06So I was like, I could explore, but it was just easier to stay in Birmingham. But I don't even, I really don't know like why I saw that. It was just, maybe it was like a random, like a algorithm thing.
SPEAKER_04Right. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, okay, not to stress too much about their locations, but it is curious. Why Birmingham? How did that office get started?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so our Birmingham principal, she was actually from Decatur. So she originally was living in California, and when she wanted to start a family, she decided to move back down to Alabama to be closer to both her husband and her family. So Birmingham's an up-and-coming city and a city that was growing. I think they saw this firm in, well, this location in maybe like 2015, don't quote me, I'm sorry. Is this Amanda? Yes, Amanda Loper. And so Birmingham was an up-and-coming city, and it was a great place to start development, especially around that 2015 time period. And they started and it's been pretty
SPEAKER_05good so far. And how many people do you all have in the Birmingham office?
SPEAKER_06Currently we have 10 people in the Birmingham office. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And where, where are y'all located?
SPEAKER_06We are located around third Avenue, uh, South. Um, and if you're familiar with the post office downtown, we're like a five minute walk from there.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Yeah. Cool. Nice. So you're schooling, is it like going to Auburn? did they focus at all on multifamily or is that something that doesn't really get touched on in school?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, didn't get touched on at all. It was just like a brand new field. But I would say that... Hospitality and multifamily housing, especially like hotels, kind of really overlap in a way. Like for a hotel, you would design a lobby, you would design the bedroom, you would design the fitness room, which is similar to multifamily housing. So I could see why they wouldn't focus on multifamily housing.
SPEAKER_04But hospitality is focused on?
SPEAKER_06Multifamily housing.
SPEAKER_04No, but like in Auburn, did they focus on hospitality? Oh, yes. Okay. So that's the kind of the – you could study that and then maybe –
SPEAKER_05Connect the bridge. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Is there – and I'm just kind of glancing earlier at your questionnaire. Is there – We do read them. We do, yeah. I may not get all the words, but I read them. A lot of times, depending on the hospitality, there can be a lot of money poured into them. And it seemed like you mentioned several times that multifamily seems to be balling on a budget. a bit. Is that fair to say? Or does it depend on the project?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it definitely depends on the project. And at David Baker, we specialize in affordable housing. We do mostly affordable housing, and so that's definitely the kicker of other projects, and also a great way to design out of the box, if needed.
SPEAKER_04And that's different than market rate? Mm-hmm, yeah. Because I saw that also, and I was like, okay, market rate? Chad and I are learning. You're here to educate us. We're not even recording. This is really just for us to... We will ask the questions
SPEAKER_05to learn here.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so market rate would be like the luxury high-rise apartments, or not even high-rise, just luxury apartments. Okay. And affordable is... low-income housing and formerly homeless housing as well. This
SPEAKER_04is probably a terrible question. Is one more rewarding and one more fun?
SPEAKER_01Can't they be both? It could be.
SPEAKER_06I would say they're both rewarding and they're both fun in different ways. With affordable, I think But with both, you need to come up with a story or a concept for your interior design. With a market rate housing, I'll start with that. It's fun to have a bit more of a budget to design things more freely. And also... It's just fun to have more money in general and to explore different materials. Just generally speaking in life. In life. Money's a bit better. But with affordable, I think it's also fun because there are so many different things you don't think about, especially with the market housing. One thing that we like to talk about a lot or think about is trauma-informed design. And so even what colors will affect someone that may have been in a terrible situation. Maybe the color blue is a bit more calming for them. a lot of people that people like uh concrete walls or concrete ceilings it's cool it's like industrial it's like super modern but for some people maybe they've been incarcerated and concrete walls or concrete ceilings reminds them of prison and so like it's something you don't think about maybe with market housing but for affordable and formerly homeless homeless housing you do have to consider um so it's just getting more into the depths of like people and human-centered design. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Are there specific developers that do affordable multifamily housing? Or is it city money? How do these projects get funded?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, there are developers. A couple of developers we work with a lot is Midpen Housing and also Mercy Housing. Those are a few that we work with. And we have a couple projects in Nashville as well And I forget the name of the developer. Don't hate me. But there's some all over the place. But there's a couple that we work with
SPEAKER_04a lot. Where are most of your projects?
SPEAKER_06Most of our projects are in California. Oh, okay. But we do have some projects in Seattle, South Carolina. We have a couple of projects going up in Nashville right now.
SPEAKER_04Do you get to travel then to California as well? You wanted to be out there. Do you get to travel some out there?
SPEAKER_06Well, we go there once a year as a company for a retreat where we go to this conference called the Monterey Design Conference. That sounds fancy. Which is cool. It's in Monterey. It's nice. You have an office there. We don't, unfortunately. We don't. I'll write that in to Amanda and let her know. But we go there once a year as a firm and we all congregate and have a good time and work in their office for a week and that's always a good time but I recently I've been working on this project in Nashville so I got to go to Nashville and tour some of our projects in construction and also we had like a community meeting one of our projects we have in Nashville as well so
SPEAKER_05how many people like total firm wide
SPEAKER_06firm wide I want to say a little over 70 and
SPEAKER_05This podcast, we're going to be plugging David Baker. This is an ad for David Baker. This is what we're doing. Yeah, you get it. They'll have you in San Francisco in no time. Thanks
SPEAKER_04to All In Design. I did ask that question. I was like, I know you really want to go to California. Do you get the chance to go out there? So, I mean, you really had no experience in what they do, right? When you were hired. But I think one of the things that's been interesting as we've done these conversations is that at least the ones we're interviewing seems like they've been kind of go-getters and putting their best foot forward, finding their jobs, but also kind of going after what they're looking for. And so I find that admirable that you were in a job you didn't like in Atlanta, which was Millwork, right? And then you were like, I really am interested in this type of design. And you found a firm and you got a job there. I think that's fantastic. It's not really a question, it's just a comment. Well done. And thank you for listening, everyone. You're doing
SPEAKER_05great. You're doing great. Yeah. Here, I'll put us back on track. Okay, thanks. What surprises did you have? graduating from auburn and going into i'm using my air quotes the real world yeah of the design industry and that can apply to whatever you may have learned or experienced at the millwork company but then even david baker like what what and either one of those or both of those surprised you yeah once you were no longer a student
SPEAKER_06um yeah then it's not a bit crazy but just how things are built um like how is this banquet that's like curved in so many different ways how is that going to be built actually like it's not i feel like in design school you're just designing cute things you're rendering it and you're like putting it in a presentation and it's cute and you wrap it all up and like it's that's it a you got it but in the real world it has to be built somehow and figuring out how it's built and also creating details for that and really understanding how everything works I feel like that was a difference or not even a shock but just like a difference like a learning curve for me
SPEAKER_04yeah I've seen that too on the product development side as far as manufacturers you know they have product designers and um i remember one of the manufacturers talking was like yeah you know we have some people they they show up with really pretty pictures you know it's like but you've got to figure out how does that get made what materials are you know does there have to be a mold how do you mass produce it you know how's it structurally there's all these things that go into it that you know a pretty picture
SPEAKER_05doesn't how do you make a hundred or how do you make ten thousand of these right yeah yeah is there one thing and just out of curiosity just because i think that's That's fascinating, and you're not the first person that we've had on the show that's mentioned that to that very point of like, okay, cool, yeah, I've designed something. I'm using my air quotes again. But now you've got a team out in the field and construction's going on, and they're like, okay, we've got to put this thing together. We've got to build it, and you need to make those plans. Is there anything that jumps out to you as like, oh, I want to design this, and now I have to figure out how it's built. Like, even if it's as specific as like a banquette, is there something that's like, oh, I remember very vividly having to figure out how to build this thing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Honestly, my first, it was like my first project I worked on, and I was just doing literally just red lines, and also just creating drawings or details, and I was like, I don't know how to build a banquette. Like, how does that work? How do you, where are the two-by-twos? Where are the two-by-fours? Like, what happens? I have no clue. So I just, I I'd ask someone for help, but even just small stuff like that was, okay, let's think about this and how is this actually going to make sense.
SPEAKER_05Is collaboration different? I'm going to lead the question. I'm leading the question. I'm going to lead the question anyway. How is collaboration different in now your professional life versus when you were a student? Or is it?
SPEAKER_06I would say... the only difference is that some things are a bit more virtual but i say at auburn every studio was you were in a group um and you all worked on one one thing you split up work but like you had to present a final deliverable that was done by all of you guys stuff like auburn prepared me for that uh in the real world because i feel like it's the same here like you're all working on a smaller part of the job but everybody's working to complete one goal right um So I don't think it's too different. I think the only difference is working virtually a lot and also maybe the time difference. But I feel like that's not too big of a deal either.
SPEAKER_05Way to go, Auburn.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, good job. Kudos to them. So I'm just jumping into a question here because it's not very organic. What's the most valuable lesson you've learned from a mentor or senior designer in your first few years?
SPEAKER_06I feel like this is also cliche, but to ask questions and don't be scared to ask questions. I feel like
SPEAKER_04it sounds like you're with a good group that is open, especially if you don't know anything about that market. And they're like, we're going to hire you now. Don't ask us any questions. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06No, definitely asking questions. Everyone says it, but it's so important. I feel like I have we have you can ask for a mentor at our firm. And my mentor is in the California office. And I feel like I just DM her on Slack. every day multiple times a day about different things and like calling her and asking for questions about stuff um so just asking questions truly um has helped me and it will help everyone else honestly
SPEAKER_05so is that part of their like either new hire process or young professional development in that like so you were told directly hey bethany you can have a mentor pick one
SPEAKER_04well or did they say we really think you need one yeah
SPEAKER_05you don't know what we We do. As
SPEAKER_01a matter of fact, we're giving you two mentors.
SPEAKER_06We saw that you need some help. It's an opportunity that's available to anyone in the firm. You don't have to be a new hire. You can be a new hire. You don't have to be a young professional. You can be... seasoned and still have a mentor. And it's not mandatory. You have to seek it out and ask for it and put your name on the list to be like, hey, I want a mentor. And they see who's available and who fits, who would fit your needs, and they match you with someone.
SPEAKER_04Do you have any say in that as far as who the person is? Yeah, you do. Okay. Did you say no to some people?
SPEAKER_06On the record, I said no to no one.
SPEAKER_05She suddenly became very aware of the mic. Yeah. Is this thing on? We're either going to get you to California or fired.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06No. There were only, at the time, there were only three other designers. So I had small pickings to pick from already. But I don't know how I ended up with the person I did, honestly. But she's great. And I think I selected based on... who I worked with the most at that time, and I worked with that one person at the time, so it just made sense to.
SPEAKER_04I'm going to be a mentor. How do you, being a young designer, get your ideas into the, like, do you feel confident enough to kind of say, okay, I think we should do this? Or are you still at this stage, like, tell me what to do and I'll implement what you're telling me?
SPEAKER_06I think it's a combination of both. And as I feel like I've been at the firm a bit longer, I've had more confidence to be like, hey, maybe we should do this. Or how about this? It's just getting over that initial form of embarrassment that happens when you're presenting, like, a new idea that's, like, yours and not to be, like, ashamed of it or be confident in your thoughts. But I feel like I feel a bit more confident to present ideas, and it's encouraged. I feel like you don't want to be the person in the meeting that's, like, not contributing. Right. Like, that's a bit more embarrassing. Right. So it's definitely encouraged. And we do these things called principal check-ins, and it's basically like a – huge critique with either three or four principals on your project team, and it's just everyone's on one Miro board. I'm not sure if y'all are familiar, but one like... Did you say, what kind of board? Miro board. Miro board. It's like, think of a digital whiteboard. Okay. So everybody's on this one whiteboard, and everyone has the opportunity to sketch or draw something or produce something, and it's encouraged to come
SPEAKER_05to those and produce. Is this in person, or it's a digital, you're on teams, and it's, like, how does it work in terms of interface?
SPEAKER_06It's, so Miro is a, like, website. Oh, okay. And so we just share a screen on Zoom, and everyone is, like, on the website. Okay. Sketching out their thoughts.
SPEAKER_05Like, do you have, like, digital pen? Like, you're sketching, like, I'm just curious. Oh, yeah, iPads. Okay. That wasn't clear. That wasn't clear. We all have iPads,
SPEAKER_06and so we all use iPads to sketch.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I don't think we've had anybody mention that. You're talking about whiteboards, sketching, and I'm just thinking, okay, but if you're in the digital space, how is this working? That's cool. That's very cool.
SPEAKER_04Does it say who's sketching what? Yeah. It can be
SPEAKER_06anonymous if you don't want it, if you want it to be, but I feel like there's no need. If there's four people on the call, all of a sudden Bethany's name disappears, but the pen is still moving. Anonymous Bob is typing,
SPEAKER_04yeah. That's funny. So do you have, since you're putting forth ideas, have you determined or seen that you've got kind of your own design style at this point? I
SPEAKER_06would say no. Okay. I feel like I've learned with my two jobs that I've had is that some firms have like an established aesthetic. Right. And I feel like the challenge, not even a challenge per se, but... something that you have to work through is adhering to your firm's aesthetic while also implementing your own ideas and your own aesthetic. I don't think I have yet, still working
SPEAKER_04on that. But does your firm have an aesthetic, you think, that's pretty pronounced or is recognizable?
SPEAKER_06I don't think it's pronounced, but I think they just, especially for interiors, I think they have an aesthetic that's... understated, but still clean. but not anything that's like super recognizable
SPEAKER_04per se. Yeah. It's because it is interesting. There's, you know, I follow a few firms on Instagram and sometimes I'll see a picture first before I recognize who it's from. And I can usually guess who's, you know, there's a few that it's, yeah, that's probably
SPEAKER_05so-and-so. You can kind of tell. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So where do you find inspiration, design inspiration?
SPEAKER_06Honestly, I mean, shout out to Instagram, another ad, I guess, but Instagram is a good, it's a good place to find inspiration i
SPEAKER_05was gonna say this show maybe should be brought to you us everyone by instagram they've probably got meta might have more money than david baker i think they're doing fine yeah they don't need us yeah they don't need us yeah as we as we promote on their platform
SPEAKER_06yeah but instagram um pinterest also magazines
SPEAKER_04which magazines
SPEAKER_06Interior Design Magazine. I like Dezen. Dezen? Am I saying it? Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Car and Driver. Guns and Ammo. What's it called? Dezen?
SPEAKER_06Dezen? It's D-E-Z-E-N, I think.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I'm not familiar with that one. Design? No, I mean, maybe, maybe.
SPEAKER_06I mean, who knows, truly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, nailed it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I believe you, but I don't, probably those and also Pinterest. I've been trying to get back into physical media for finding inspiration, so older design books,
SPEAKER_04per se.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Is there a particular interior designer or designers that you look up to or you like their work and you follow it?
SPEAKER_06I would say I like this one designer, not necessarily for her work. Not that it's not also great, but... Yeah, yeah. Not that the work isn't great.
SPEAKER_04But her work is... And there's that mic check. I look at her for what not to do.
SPEAKER_06Not that her work isn't great, but her name is Ikea Weatherspoon. She was one of the first people, first interior designers that I... saw that I researched that was really doing something in my field. And she was also a person of color. So that was really encouraging to find somebody that was doing something that I wanted to do when I really didn't know anyone or anything about this industry that I wanted to go into. And randomly, she spoke at one of our senior studios. So that was also nice to see her in person. I got to ask her questions in person. That was really cool. So yeah, she has the same design philosophies that I had. Also works in affordable housing and has a very strong passion for designing for people in general and also working in underserved communities. So she was very inspirational to me. Is
SPEAKER_05she her own... Her own studio? Does she run her own studio?
UNKNOWNYeah, she has a firm in D.C.
SPEAKER_04Cool. Yeah, so a great person, but the design necessarily.
SPEAKER_06The design is great. If you're listening,
SPEAKER_05it's great. Well, you said Kia Witherspoon. Is that what you said? I'm going to find her Instagram. I'm going to tag her in the write-up.
SPEAKER_04No, she's awesome. She's great. She's the best. Look her up. She's the best. Look her up. She'd be our next guest. Get her on the pod next. She'd be like, who are you people? Point, counterpoint. Yeah. Right? Is there a particular project you've worked on so far that stands out as memorable?
SPEAKER_06Well, the first project that I've seen in person that's been completed that I've worked on is a project we have in Treasure Island in San Francisco. And... I didn't do a lot with the design, honestly, but I worked a ton with the FF&E process. And looking at that process, especially from a market rate lens, is really cool. And one thing that I thought was really cool for that project is we have this huge tile wall when you enter, and Treasure Island is near the ocean. Is it on an island? It's on an island, if you
SPEAKER_05can imagine. Okay, I'm interrupting, because you talk about this in your questionnaire, and I didn't have time to Google it, but I wanted to be like, but you didn't say it was in San Francisco. I'm like, where's Treasure Island?
SPEAKER_06It was a surprise for the
SPEAKER_05podcast. So what is Treasure Island? Is it like a community, like a Staten Island kind of, like a place where people live, obviously? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06People live there. Not a lot of people, but it's... get there by ferry um from san
SPEAKER_04francisco pirate ship yeah yeah
SPEAKER_06yeah um but it's an underdeveloped island well not anymore it's being developed now but it's a little island um off of san francisco and i think we're the first uh high rise on that island and they're still trying to build up the island for people more people to live there but um yeah it's in um I'm
SPEAKER_05going to have to look that up. Do you know the history of why it's called Treasure Island?
SPEAKER_06I do not know the history, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_05Oh, man. Yeah, I know. We'd like to look that up.
SPEAKER_04Mark, you ask the next few questions. I'm going to research this. Yeah, Treasure Island.
SPEAKER_05Because I'm like, is this like a Disney resort? I mean, I read the book,
SPEAKER_04you know?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I don't read. I'm just kidding. Okay. How did you, so we met you because you're on the board. How did you get involved in the board?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so randomly, Laura Harris emailed
SPEAKER_05me. Oh, Laura.
SPEAKER_06And she was like, let's get coffee. And I was like, sure, let's get coffee. We got coffee and we talked a bit. And she was like, at the end, I thought it was just like a casual
SPEAKER_05professional question. She's always got an agenda. Yeah, yeah. Everyone knows that about Laura Harris. She invites you somewhere. She's got an agenda. Just kidding. Laura's sweet. We love her.
SPEAKER_06She's great. And she was like, are you interested in being on the board? And I was like... I think I could do that. I don't mind it. And it sounded really cool. It was a great opportunity to meet new people like you guys. And coming from Atlanta, I knew no one in Birmingham that was in the industry and
SPEAKER_04also people in my firm were in California. I assume you were already a part of IDA or a member of IDA? Had you gone to any IDA events?
SPEAKER_06I think I did. Possibly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So you don't even have to be on, like been to a single idea. You can just be on the board. And you can become the treasurer.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. In charge of the whole chapter's finances.
SPEAKER_03It's that easy. Yeah. Hey, Laura, did you bet this
SPEAKER_05person? I met her over coffee and
SPEAKER_04the next thing you know. Hey, here's the, here's the bank account number.
SPEAKER_06Here's the keep the castle. Yeah. Yeah. Got on the board. I forgot the question in
SPEAKER_05the show. I already forgot. I forgot the question too. It's just, I mean, it's, you know, we talk about on this show a lot of just, you know, IID involvement and then just the importance of networking and getting yourself out there. What's interesting about you is, and Chad's already alluded to this, is like, you're very cool and casual about it. It's like, I got an internship and I moved to Atlanta.
SPEAKER_04She's used the word randomly several times. Yeah. I randomly got a job and I randomly, and then randomly ended up on the board. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Cause this, is now going to be your second year on the board correct or is it your third
SPEAKER_00year my third year on the board yeah
SPEAKER_05okay
SPEAKER_00time flies yeah time flies tell me about it yeah
SPEAKER_05tell me about it i don't know i'm now i don't know how many years i've been on the board now i mean i had a little bit of a break as you did oh yeah i've had a big break but you've you've you've been on the board for quite a bit but it's good it's you know it's nice to like get out there and you meet other people and you get to you go to the events yeah and and do all the things and
SPEAKER_04and the retreats
SPEAKER_05and
SPEAKER_04the Retreats. Retreats are really good. You should get on the board just for the retreats.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. That should be a selling point. Shout out to all our retreat sponsors out there.
SPEAKER_04That's where most of the finances go. No, I'm kidding. I was just joking. It was a joke. That's where the mics click off. The one part that... We decided that Chad will no longer host the IDA, I guess.
SPEAKER_05Immediate substitution. No word.
SPEAKER_04All of a sudden, Chris Williams is sitting there he's just talking
SPEAKER_05shout out to chris i think that's probably the first time we've mentioned chris but yeah he's coming on the board coming on the board yep so um okay i got a question for you since now that you're four years out of school right yeah yeah wow wow yeah wait till it's 20 or 20 plus um what advice do you have for uh aspiring interior designers?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. My advice would be, I know we mentioned randomly a lot, but I think that you should definitely try out different fields. And if you're in a field that you don't like, don't feel pressured to stay there forever.
SPEAKER_04Or a city.
SPEAKER_06Or a city. Yeah. You don't have to stay there. But also, I mean, you want to have longevity in places, of course. But I know when I was working in Atlanta, I was like, well, I could just stay here for two years and just like get that experience and enjoy my time in Atlanta because I actually did like Atlanta the city a lot and I met some great people but I was just like well I'm not really liking this job so why do I need to stay here for two years when I could be pursuing other things possibly so just don't be scared to branch out and make a leap and
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I mean, because I look back, like, you know, now I'm married, four kids. You know, you can't just, like, go out and try new things. You know, I can't come home this evening and go, you know, I've decided to start something new. You know, I'm going to become a writer or, you know, whatever. You can't really do that. I mean, when you're young is really the time to – to make those decisions and try to be bold and do something different. But the problem is usually you don't know what you're doing and you don't have that confidence of making those decisions or trying those new things. But, yeah, I think that's a huge, huge thing that you should try to do.
SPEAKER_05You know, I did that once in my dozens of jobs. Right. I quit a job that I had where they were giving me money to be a writer where I was unemployed. Were you freelance? No, I didn't know what I was doing. No, there was nothing. Okay. There was nothing. What were you writing? Nothing. Poems? I mean, I was just like, yeah. I was like, oh, I'm going to become a novelist. Okay. Yeah. I'm
SPEAKER_04going to become a fiction.
SPEAKER_05Do you
SPEAKER_04have anything from that? This is the part of the podcast where Mark and I ignore the guest and start talking. A fiction writer. Or
SPEAKER_05Bethany's like, so what did you do and what can you teach me about all these failures?
UNKNOWNYeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no. Do you have anything from that
SPEAKER_04time?
SPEAKER_05No, not, I mean, I'm sure there's something, but not anything like worth sharing or unearthing.
SPEAKER_04Okay, well, I take it back then. Don't try to become a
SPEAKER_06woman.
SPEAKER_05Maybe not that. Maybe you have a job lined up. It's the only time, this was back in my kind of vagabond phase, before we turned the mics on, we were talking about like upcoming kind of July 4th and July holidays and trips to the beach and stuff like that, and you mentioned And you're going, Bethany, going down to Sandestin. And I made the comment that I worked at the Hilton Sandestin for two or three months. Again, just kind of bouncing around. So it was in that three years of me being in Florida. And I quit my job at Alice Beach to become a writer. And by this time, I had a little bit of a history of travel and just going and doing different things. And I lived in New York for a year. Anyway... Stop rambling about me, but the whole point of me telling you this is that in all the previous experiences, my parents were supportive. And what I mean by that, they're like, hey, if you think you need to do that, then go forth and prosper. Except for this one. Be safe. This is the only time in my entire life where my dad called me up and was like, you're grown. 100%. You're grown. You can do what you want. Your mother and I do not think this is a smart move.
SPEAKER_04How long did you do this for? Just curious.
SPEAKER_05Probably about three months. And then some other life changes were thrust upon me. And then I found myself back in Birmingham. And then that's when I started the Birmingham Museum of Art. Okay. Nice. So, yeah. So the whole, like, quit your job to become a writer. Most writers don't do that. They have another job. And they write until they are able to become
SPEAKER_04writers. Usually if they're in a big city and they've got to ride the train or whatever they're writing. Right. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_05So while they're like a salesperson or they're a librarian or they're whatever.
SPEAKER_07Okay, let's get back
SPEAKER_05on track. Anyway, back to, yeah, so. Who's our guest again? If you ever want to explore becoming
SPEAKER_04a writer,
SPEAKER_05I'll tell you
SPEAKER_04what not to do. Got it. Okay, so a question I did have, which I thought was, you had a comment about the affordable housing. There's a lot of VE that goes along, but that also inspires creativity. You've got to be a little bit more creative. creative. Can you give examples as to some of those creative ideas that had to come out.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so for this one project.
SPEAKER_04Hold on real quick. So Mark, about writing, I was wondering,
SPEAKER_05I'm kidding. She thinks that's hilarious, but it's also, you got her. You got her.
SPEAKER_06I was like, oh, back to writing. But this one project we did We originally wanted to do this really cool ceiling, and we presented it, and it was really great. And then a couple months, they get back to us, and they're like, we can't afford the ceiling. They're like, no ceilings in this project. We can't afford the ceiling. And the lobby area was already super small, and so there was very little you could do. And so... I cried. We moved on from it. And I was just like, this is one of my first projects I'm working on. Everything's getting taken out. This is really sad. But recently, maybe the past, like, three months, they came up onto some money. And we got to design a whole new ceiling that was actually better than our original idea. So that was cool. And it was, like, really designing on the fly. Like, they're NCA currently. And we had to redesign, like, this really intricate ceiling design. So that was cool. but also before CA if you have to redesign something it's really prioritizing what you want to feature and what you want to spend your money on so for instance if you have just a you have enough money for tiles, could we do a tiled mural with the same tile materials, but instead maybe create it into a piece of a logo? Or have a nice, fun design inside of the tile, if that's gonna be our only feature and only like, budget item that we can spend money on, let's make it fun. Let's make it the best tile wall you can ever see. So just learning to prioritize and also just not losing hope of your original design and don't cry about it. And don't cry about it. So a tile wall's okay, but a wood slat wall, not okay? Wood slat wall, no. Wood slat wall's not okay in my book. That's on the design hot takes. I'm a big hot take person. I don't think I've heard my overall hot takes in general. No, but you're getting
SPEAKER_04warmed up. I can tell Well, what I loved, you know, again, at the very end of our questionnaire, we've got, you know, what's missing? Are there anything you want to cover? And then you're like, design hot takes. These are the things I don't care for. In all caps, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought we might explore those.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, with SlatWall, especially with a big reveal. Specifically in certain finishes, like a mahogany finish, not a fan, or an oak finish, not a fan. If it's in a finish like a Shugibon finish with very thin reveals, we can talk about it. I like it. It's not bad.
SPEAKER_05So Shugibon, that's the Japanese, where they're burning the wood? Mm-hmm. I'm just saying that just to do it as a humble brag. That's more and more what that was. Chad knew. Chad looked up. He's like, oh, you know that. Oh, shut up. Stop talking. Well, but the listeners might not know. Maybe. There we go. Thank you, Mark. So no mahogany and no wide reveal.
SPEAKER_06No wide reveal. No plant walls. I know that's a thing. A lot of people love plant walls, especially in commercial design. Biophilia, that's like the buzzword
SPEAKER_04that we all like to use. But what is it about the plant wall?
SPEAKER_06I just, it's overdone. And also, I just don't think it looks that good. It can look good. Like, there's this hotel. Love hotels. There's this, I think it's the one hotel in Miami. They have, like, a nice plant wall.
SPEAKER_04What makes it a nice plant wall?
SPEAKER_06It looks like a plant wall, and it's not just, like, shapes that have plants in them stuck on a wall, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like some of it's, like, circles on the wall, and, like, the wall, the circle has, like, moss and, like, plants coming out of it, and it's, like, a compilation of, like, circles or stuff on the wall.
SPEAKER_05So, are you familiar with the plant wall at the Birmingham airport?
SPEAKER_06I am.
SPEAKER_05Should I leave it there? Should we go to the next? You answered my question. You answered my question.
SPEAKER_06It's not a favorite. No shade to anyone who designs plant walls. Disclaimer.
SPEAKER_03Disclaimer.
SPEAKER_05I'm
SPEAKER_04going to go
SPEAKER_05back to the wood
SPEAKER_04slab. I'm going to definitely... take that clip from just her responding to that and use it in something. I'm not sure what it's going to be. You should,
SPEAKER_05yeah. It said so much. I do kind of, I don't know, you stop me if I shouldn't backtrack to the slat walls. Go for it. I'm just curious what it is about the slat walls.
SPEAKER_06I think maybe five years ago would not have had this thought. But for some reason, maybe with the rise of Amazon and mass production, people are now putting slat walls inside of their homes as well. And it just doesn't look
SPEAKER_05good. It's often used out of place. Overdone and not used appropriately. Yes. Yes. Because I did laugh when I saw the design. So the third one on here is not a fan of acoustic cloud shapes.
SPEAKER_06Correct. I'm looking up.
SPEAKER_05So do you mean like PET felt shapes hanging from the ceiling? Or actually in the shape of a cloud.
SPEAKER_06Well, that also is a no, but I feel like I've never seen that, thankfully, but like a circular tectum cloud, specifically if they're like overlapping. Those are done in like maybe hospitals, which is, I guess, valid, but like overlapping tectum or acoustic felt circles, squares, anything, honestly. I'm not a fan.
SPEAKER_05Chad and I are trying to see where to go. Okay, I'm going to start over on the list. So we started with wood slat walls. What do you like in its stead? That's a good question.
SPEAKER_06There are ways to do it, but I feel like it's... done more of maybe on a hospitality scale that's nicer. Like saying you were doing like a... Appropriate place as well. Exactly. Maybe you were doing like a recreation of like a mid-century modern style home or your hotel was like in that style. You can have a wood slat wall if it doesn't have like a really thick reveal and also it may be more seamless and not a wood slat wall behind the
SPEAKER_04desk. What about the wood slat walls where you can incite me like put shelves you can like do the little brackets inside? Oh yeah. She hates that. The multifunction wood slat wall.
SPEAKER_06I'm not a fan.
SPEAKER_04I'm not a fan. Okay, what about the acoustic clouds that don't overlap? Better or still hate them?
SPEAKER_06If it's not in – I can do an acoustic cloud maybe if it's, like, one, like, in this room. The listeners can't see this, but if it was, like, a rectangular room, rectangular cloud, kind of, like, has – maybe comes off the wall maybe, like, a foot. That's fine. Okay. We're not going to have multiple pieces of acoustic
SPEAKER_05circles. So you want one piece of acoustic.
SPEAKER_06Basically, or just like a full, like, Autex ceiling. Like, let's not get too crazy. Let's keep it clean and simple. We don't have to have, like... 10 different pieces of
SPEAKER_05things hanging from the ceiling to get the same acoustics. You don't like busy. I don't like busy, no. Is this an innate
SPEAKER_04design? Have you seen the plant wall at the Birmingham airport?
SPEAKER_03She loves it. It's great. She's a huge fan
SPEAKER_05of it. Is the simplicity part of your innate design proclivity? I'm going to say that again because I've never said proclivity. I don't know if you can say it.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if I could say it out loud.
SPEAKER_05Proclivity. Or is it... Or is it something you're learning just in terms of the markets that you're in where you're like, okay, I've got to get the most bang for my buck. Not for all this frivolous acoustic clown. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06No layering. No, I think it's innate. Okay. Even my house or my apartment, it's like... I'm not a minimalist, but I'm also not a maximalist. I think there's an in-between.
SPEAKER_05You're a mediumist? Yeah. There's an
SPEAKER_06in-between that can happen. You don't have to have an all-white wall, but if you do, you can have small pieces that make it nice. You don't have to fill up the entire. You don't have to have a huge gallery wall. You can have a couple pieces of art, but it doesn't have to be boring.
SPEAKER_05It can be cool. What would you replace the plant wall with? Like a ficus tree in the corner? You
SPEAKER_06don't have to have a plant wall. Maybe a piece of art. Maybe...
SPEAKER_04piece of art that shows a plant. Meta.
SPEAKER_06I just think not to get too in the weeds in this.
SPEAKER_05Oh no, we're in the weeds. This is the part of the show where we walk directly in the weeds and stay there
SPEAKER_04for about 25 minutes. We want people turning off their radio.
SPEAKER_05Or as the kids say, the ox.
SPEAKER_06I feel like there are some things in design where It's like a list. It's like, oh, we have a plant wall, we have a tack board, just like random things. It's like, there's nothing there, let's just throw a plant wall up there if that makes it interesting. Whereas there are ways to make bare walls interesting that's not... not less thought out because that's not fair. Right. But another way that a wall can be interesting without just throwing something
SPEAKER_05up there. So you're not entirely against plant walls then? Because I'm sure that there could be a situation where you're like, a plant wall could work.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, there are situations. I don't think I've ever experienced those
SPEAKER_05yet. I would personally never use them. Not for any part of my projects. Not
SPEAKER_06yet. But like I said, the one hotel in Miami, they have a plant wall. I'm pretty sure. And it looks great. It
SPEAKER_05fits. You don't remember the name of the hotel?
SPEAKER_06I'm not sure if it has it, if it's that specific hotel. I think it is. But they have a plant law, and I think it works with what they're going with because it makes sense
SPEAKER_04based on the context. Were there any other design hot takes that you thought about putting on the list? You're like, no, I'm not going to put that there.
SPEAKER_06Design hot takes.
SPEAKER_05I mean, you did say and more. And more. I did say that.
SPEAKER_06And I can't say I'm on the spot because I wasn't on the spot. I had time to think about this.
UNKNOWNYeah.
SPEAKER_06I don't like, this is more in, I don't want an affinity one. This is more so in personal homes. I don't like large format marble or like stone. Like say there's like a huge bathroom and the shower is just like one big slab. I think... That doesn't look good all the time. Interesting.
SPEAKER_05It depends on the scent. You want one giant piece of felt, but not a giant piece of marble.
SPEAKER_06I think it's the
SPEAKER_05same thing with the plant wall. It's the same thing with the plant wall. Also, I like how you're like, I don't want to offend anyone. Except this has to do with their homes and their personal tastes.
SPEAKER_06It's like the same thing with the plant wall. We have a blank wall. Let's just throw a plant wall in there. We have a blank wall. Let's just do one slab. Whereas it could be a really cool tile pattern. I feel like it's just, oh, we have a big wall. Let's throw. It's the one slab on there.
SPEAKER_05Instead of a big giant piece of glass in the shower, it could be like a slat wall. With plants. Yeah, with plants on shelves. Air plants. Okay, so
SPEAKER_04bouncing around. Okay, so this is funny because I printed out the questionnaire, right? And so at the very end of page three for me, when I printed it out, was your design hot takes. And then... Mark mentioned, he was like, and then you said, and there's more. And I'm like, it's not, it doesn't say that. Oh, page four, that's all it says. There are more. There are more.
SPEAKER_05Top of the page, that's all it says. Going back to like hospitality as it is related to plants, because I can imagine, I'm just thinking about this as like this hotel in Miami has got a really cool plant wall. And a lot of really cool hotels have really big lobby and atrium areas. So how do you feel about atriums?
SPEAKER_06I like an atrium.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I like an atrium.
SPEAKER_05Okay, cool. All right. That's all I got.
SPEAKER_04I think now we're ready for a rapid fire. I don't know where to go from here. We've spiraled.
SPEAKER_05We've spiraled. What is your thoughts on... Sourdough bread. No, I'm kidding. I
SPEAKER_06do have a thought.
SPEAKER_05Oh, hit us with it.
SPEAKER_06Not a fan of sourdough bread. Hot take.
SPEAKER_05Hot take. She doesn't like a sourdough wall. Hot take.
SPEAKER_06Don't put it on the wall either.
SPEAKER_05So do you not like sourdough bread just generally speaking?
UNKNOWNMm-hmm. Oh, man, I love sourdough.
SPEAKER_06I mean, I like a plain tasting bread. Shoot me.
SPEAKER_04Don't shoot me. What about rye? Yeah, it's not plant tasting at all. No.
SPEAKER_05I'm not a big bread person. So you're like Merida white bread, or like Roman meal wheat? What bread do you buy? Bunny bread? My first rapid fire question is what bread do you buy? Okay, that's a... She's like, that's a
SPEAKER_04personal question. Let's talk about other people's bathrooms. This is the first time she seemed uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_06I'm scared of the... Okay, I buy... Hot take? I enjoy Hawaiian bread and croissants. Okay. Yeah, sure. Those are always in my house. So if I'm in a sandwich, I use a croissant. Okay. I eat Hawaiian. It's pretty bougie.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Pretty bougie. It's not bougie. It's not bougie. It's my minimalist wall and my shishugi, however you pronounce it.
SPEAKER_06I have croissant bread. I use Hawaiian bread more as like a little snack They also just don't eat sandwiches, another hot take. I'll just eat a croissant by itself, or I eat it with eggs.
SPEAKER_05I love how not eating a sandwich is a hot take. I thought the same thing. I was like, is that a hot take, or is it just a preference? Hot take, no sandwiches for me. I'm like, okay. That doesn't apply to everybody. It's just you. A
SPEAKER_00mild take. A mild
SPEAKER_06take.
SPEAKER_05Do you consider a hot dog a sandwich?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I'm also a really big fan of hot dogs, but I would not consider it
SPEAKER_04a sandwich. Do you use a croissant?
SPEAKER_06I have considered it. Oh, okay. That is true. I've considered it.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if I've ever considered it. I've never considered it, but
SPEAKER_06I do use Hawaiian bread buns exclusively. What kind of hot dogs? Oscar Mayer beef.
SPEAKER_05Okay. You should try Hebrew National. It's good. Good stuff.
SPEAKER_04All right, I'm going to ask my question. Oh, Chad Stoyer. Name one thing that you are sneaky good at.
SPEAKER_06Sneaky good at?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like people wouldn't necessarily think or know.
SPEAKER_06I'm really good at finding things out. Not in a weird way, but just getting to the bottom of things. Not in a stalkerish way? I can go into the depths of something, and I cannot escape until I figure out the answer, whether it's work-related or personally. But also to the point of asking questions, I feel like I sometimes will go to the depths of the earth to find the answer before I actually ask a question. But I can find things
SPEAKER_04out. Okay, that's good.
SPEAKER_05That's a good answer. And I feel like it's good for us to know. If you ever need to find something
SPEAKER_04out, we're just going to call you. Hey, can you find some dirt on this other rep?
SPEAKER_05Right. Be right back. I'll get it done. Hey, Bethany, who else is bidding on this project? What's their number? Go find it out. Describe yourself in three words.
SPEAKER_06Wow, three words. I will say giggly. I would say thoughtful. Yeah. Random. Yeah,
SPEAKER_05random.
SPEAKER_06Third word. I would say open in the sense that I'm interested in learning new things and open for feedback, criticism, all of that. That sounded very intense. Not criticism, but just open to hearing other thoughts and hearing feedback. Other people's opinions.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Okay. I'm going to tell you why you should like plant walls.
SPEAKER_04And I will listen. I will disagree with you, but I will listen. I already know this answer because we were talking about it ahead of time, but what was your last big trip?
SPEAKER_06My last big trip, I went to Barcelona and Paris.
SPEAKER_04And she was telling me an interesting story. She was there when there was that big power outage. Do you remember in Europe? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so what happened?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. So me and my friend were gleefully walking to the Sagrada Familia. Oh, I didn't tell you this, but this is also another twist. We were walking to the Sagrada Familia. Did we go inside the Sagrada Familia? The answer is no, because we could not download our tickets because there was no power. So we like sat in front of the Sagrada Familia for like at least an hour, like trying to... Hoping that it would... Yeah. Yeah. And it never did. So we... went home and on the way home, there's no Wi-Fi, there's no, our
SPEAKER_04phones are dying. And they weren't really paying super close attention, because they're in a big city that they've never been to before, and they're following what the phone's telling them, and
SPEAKER_06then, so they didn't know how to get back. Yeah, we didn't know how to get back. Oh, wow. So we were lost for a very long time. At one point, we, like, walked for at least an hour, and we ended up back at the Sagrada Familia, and then we were about to cry, both of us. But we got lost. We went into a hotel, like I was telling you, and we asked if we could charge our phones. The power had started going back on. That's how long we've been out. And they're like, no, our power is for our hotel guests. So they gave us a map and sent us on our merry way. So we used a physical map in the year of 2025 to navigate throughout a city that we've never been in. So that was fun. It actually, it's a good story to tell, I guess now. We can laugh at it now, but it was not funny. In the moment and on the way home, we got back at maybe like 9, 10. Nothing was open and they were only taking cash, which we had none of. So we had to eat at McDonald's in Barcelona for their last night. And it was beautiful. McDonald's was gorgeous. But yeah, very disappointing.
SPEAKER_05As an aside, I think that people knowing how to read a map and navigate it, either out in the country or especially in a big city, is a skill that everyone should have. Without your phone, just figure out how to get your bearings, and then once you have your bearings, know how to read the map. One of Aaron and mine's favorite shows, The Amazing Race, and it's amazing to me how many people go on that show and don't know how to read a map.
SPEAKER_04Question, how do you think the two of you would do as contestants?
SPEAKER_05So we've talked about this. I think we would do well. There's a lot of physicality in The Amazing Race that I think sometimes could hold us back. And then there's also a lot of things that have to do with heights, which I don't have a problem with. But Erin would 100% have. Because
SPEAKER_04my wife, I haven't watched it in forever, but prior to children we would watch Amazing Race. And we would talk about, my wife would be like, yeah, I do terrible. She'd take it, she's like, I'm not doing it.
SPEAKER_05Erin's really, she's really smart. She's really good at puzzles. And so I think that there's a lot of things. She also has a good memory. So I think we would balance each other out pretty well. Right. But there's certain tasks that might trip you up. Yeah, for sure. For sure. But the Heights, definitely. We were in on a vacation one time in Belize and San Pedro and we had, which is a little Island off the coast of Belize. And one day we came in and we did a day trip and it was like kind of a two excursion outing and it was touring some, some ruins. And then we did zip lining and And these were not, like, these were decent size zip lines. These are not, like, huge zip lines. But the very first one that we went up, you know, I don't know how high off the, I have no idea how high off the ground we were, but it was several hundred yards of line. And Erin got up there and, like, practically burst into tears. Did she not know? No, she knew. She knew. She was with the group. She was with the group and we were going to do it. And, like, I love that sort of thing. And she, we have these rooms. really great photos of me and my buddy Chris these are individual photos but he was with us and it's like Chris and I grew up together and it's like a picture of me on the zip line and like my legs are extended and I'm looking around and then the picture of Chris and his legs are extended and his hair is blowing back and like we're both just like calm cool and collected and then the photo of Erin and she's just like holding on so she still went through it to the harness oh she did but yeah when the guy was like are you ready and she was like I guess so She just immediately burst into tears. And that was the first of like six or seven. Oh. Yeah. But I only bring up that story to say that I think she could eventually do it. I mean, but they do crazy stuff. They do. Yeah, they do. It's like repel off Big Ben. Right. You know, and that's a different ballgame there. Is it my question or is it yours? It's your question, yeah, and we do have a guest still here with us. Okay, yeah, we do. We do. All right, so I... I glanced at this question a few minutes ago, and I was like, I'm not going to answer that, or I'm not going to ask that. And I'm like, no, keep coming back to it. My eye's drawn to it. Because I feel like you might have a hard time answering it. Because it's very specific. What's your number one design pet peeve? Oh,
SPEAKER_06man. Oh, man.
SPEAKER_05I was correct.
SPEAKER_04Difficult. It could be one she's already said.
SPEAKER_05That's fair,
SPEAKER_04yeah. Just go back to plant wall.
SPEAKER_05Wood slats. Flip the table over.
SPEAKER_06What is my number one design pet peeve? I guess in the same sense of the plant wall and wood slats. It's just like doing something with... little thought, I guess. And it's just like a thing that's repetitive. It looks good, but it's just like something you always do. It's just like, oh, we can just do that again. Unintentionality. Exactly. Not making intentional, but things.
SPEAKER_05That's a good answer, actually. Yeah. A very intentional
SPEAKER_04answer, if you will. You didn't have to throw actually on there. It sounded like... That was actually a good answer. He was surprised. Well done. Kudos. We've been talking to you for an hour, but good job. What are you currently binge-watching?
SPEAKER_06Ooh, Love Island. Okay. Love Island. It comes on every night, which is kind of intense. It comes on every night? Besides Wednesday nights, but every night, starting, I think, early June. I think it ends mid-July, but it comes on every night. It's a reality show. Right. about love, so they say.
SPEAKER_04And they're on an island?
SPEAKER_06They're on an
SPEAKER_04island.
SPEAKER_06But it comes out every night and it's just really good. It's good like a nightcap.
SPEAKER_05Okay, this is a two-parter. I'm going to keep it quick. Are you a movie watcher or a book reader? Music lover? Is this one of your questions? I'm a TV series person. You're a TV series person. Okay. So I asked that question with intention. Okay. If you were going to design a space based on a TV show, what TV show would it be?
SPEAKER_06Ooh, can I give two answers? And it'll probably be pretty mainstream, but I feel like succession, they have like have a nice clean design style and they would want like high quality, um, materials. I think that'd be really cool. But on the off side, Elbite Lotus, that'd be fun. Hospitality vibes. And also I feel like, I guess in the same sense of like high quality materials and also it'd be fun to design a place where people are crazy
SPEAKER_05and
SPEAKER_06yeah.
SPEAKER_05Good answers. Both HBO shows and both shows with really strong writing and really strong set design and locations.
SPEAKER_04Again, actually, that was a pretty good answer. All right. You have to use a bust of Mark Griffo on a project. Where would you display it? On the plant wall. On the
SPEAKER_06shelf, on the wood slats. Since we're thinking, we're designing with intention, we're going to put Mark on a... a console table in front of the elevator. So as soon as you go up to your unit, the first thing you see is Mark. But on every level, there's going to be a different color mark so that you know which floor is yours. Wayfinding tool. That actually was a fantastic answer. So blue mark for level three, green mark for level four. Just keep it going.
SPEAKER_04I love it. Yeah. Do you have one more? Am I supposed to have one more? Yeah, if we're doing five. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually make a list.
SPEAKER_05I don't ever keep count. Okay, this is my last one. What's the weirdest or most unexpected source of design inspiration you've ever encountered? Hmm. Aside from the question Chad just asked.
SPEAKER_06Hmm. okay i guess this is like it's not funny at all but we were in uh i remember high school we have a history class and of course it's taught by a football coach and he puts on a movie for us to watch it's the end of the year and it's this movie called i think it's like darius goes west i don't remember but it's basically a documentary about this uh disabled guy and he goes to different places to see where he can access like ADA and he just goes to all these different places and he's just documenting which places like I said are accessible or not and I would say that that movie was also like an eye opener to accessible design as well so that's like a weird random instance of
SPEAKER_05that might be the best answer we've ever gotten for that question actually oh wow all
SPEAKER_04right My final one. Give me three random words.
SPEAKER_06Kerfuffle.
SPEAKER_04Kerfuffle. Oh. How do you spell
SPEAKER_06kerfuffle?
SPEAKER_05You spell it like proclivity.
SPEAKER_06Kerfuffle. Holy moly. That's a phrase. That's a word. But I use that often, surprisingly. And third word. Actually.
SPEAKER_01Nink
SPEAKER_06and poop, because my dad says that a lot.
SPEAKER_04That one was funny, because I was taking care of my oldest daughter now, but she was, I guess, maybe six or seven, and she was sick. So she had a fever. It was during the holidays. And so we had left my parents' house so that nobody else got sick. And we went back to our house. So it was just the two of us. And I used that word on something. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm being an income poop or whatever. And she thought that was the funniest thing anyone had ever said. So whenever I think of that moment. And the reason I ask for three random words is recently came across an AI site where it'll make music
SPEAKER_05for you. Oh,
SPEAKER_04okay. And it does a pretty good job. So I was thinking for our... outro music for this episode. I'll create a specific song for this episode based on some things we've talked about. And then throw in these three random curfew words. Buffle, Holy Moly, and Ningka Poop. That's going to be a banger. Is there a particular music genre that you would like that song to be in?
SPEAKER_06What is the genre of Charlie XCX?
SPEAKER_04Pop? Yes.
SPEAKER_06Pop? Hypo-pop? Hyper-pop? Is that a word? Is that a phrase? It
SPEAKER_04is now.
SPEAKER_06Hyper-pop?
SPEAKER_04I will see if I can do that. Let's do it. Upbeat. All right, so anyways, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it. I can't wait to hear this song. Yeah, for the two or three people that stayed this long on the episode. It'll be a nice surprise for them. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks again. Thanks,
SPEAKER_00Bethany. Thank you all.
UNKNOWNThank you.
SPEAKER_02Bethany Jay, she's crushing the game Davis Baker name, big building fame Left Atlanta for her dreams to take flight Affordable housing, she's doing it right But don't you dare bring that slatted wood She'll shut it down, and she should know She said, that's not biophilic, that's just rough But don't you dare bring that slatted wood She'll shut it down, and she should No moss, no ferns, no wall of green fluff She said, that's not biophilic, that's just rough Bethany's on, all in design She's changing the code, she's redrawing lines Marks on a zipline, yelling hold Can't find his place, asks his questions slowly Bethany's on, she don't fake the look She builds the story, don't need no book She's sleek, she's bold, she's next-gen fine Tune in, tune up, all in design This ain't your average Pinterest board Removes the kerfuffle people can't afford equity loud. She's speaking truth while they chase the clouds. Mark Zip's zapping through the scene. Meanwhile, Beth's cleaning up that green. No slat, no moss, no solid slab. She's got receipts and she's calling it bad. And Chad's in the booth trying to write this bop, but got kicked off the amazing race first stop. Now the treasurer in this idea show. She's doing the most She don't need slats to flex or boast No nincompoops on this design train She's clearing that path like a hurricane Bethany's on all in design She's breaking rules while the slats decline Marks in the sky, Chad's losing his mind Beth's out here shaping humankind Bethany's on No, thanks. Declined. All in design.