All-In Design
"All-In Design" is IIDA Alabama's podcast that invites you into the dynamic world of commercial interior design. Immerse yourself in the artistry, innovation, and inspiration that shape the spaces where we work, collaborate, and create. Discover the latest trends, cutting-edge technologies, and timeless design principles that define the ever-evolving landscape of commercial interiors.
All-In Design
Episode #45 - Interview with Timothy P. O'Brien
Join us on this episode of All-In Design, as we talk with Tim O'Brien, sales director at Innerspaice Architectural Interiors. As a friend and fellow "Showrunner", it was a fun discussion going back through Tim's past as the DesignTex rep, Herman Miller rep, and Milliken rep. Not many people in the industry has as much knowledge as Tim, sales knowledge that you can find in his recently published book "Road Growth". The episode culminates with a song written and performed by Tim for the 2005 IDIE Awards. Hope you enjoy!
From a comfy sofa in the IDA Alabama recording studio, this is All In Design. Hello and welcome to All In Design IDA Alabama's podcast. Thanks for listening. My name is Chad Moore here with my co-host Mark Griffo.
SPEAKER_01:Hey everybody.
SPEAKER_04:And we have yet another showrunner on the podcast. I think we've had everybody on except for Can't remember the other guy's name. Yeah, yeah. Just keep going. Yeah, just you're doing great. Just keep going. Lauren talked about him a lot. She talked about him a lot, and it was funny because the podcast came out, and my brother, uh Lou, who's up in Nashville, he listens to the podcast and he texted me, Kevin from Tech Neon. Funny enough, uh, we're all getting together to have drinks to talk about the show right after the recording of this podcast. So we've got to get going with this podcast because we've got we've got places to be. We've got places to be and drinks to drink. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:They needed to kill some time before it, so they were like, let's just throw Tim in and then we'll drink that technically.
SPEAKER_04:And I guess we're kinda sort of introducing him, but uh as is I guess he's got a cold, so he's got an extra sexy deep voice today for everybody. Are you trying to imply that Tim doesn't normally sound this good?
SPEAKER_01:No, he said extra. Extra, extra, extra voice. Yeah, yeah. Um Well, that said, I will now officially introduce you. Uh we are happy to have uh our friend, and as Chad already mentioned, fellow showrunner uh on the podcast, Tim O'Brien, who is the sales director at InnerSpace, uh, which is headquartered here in Birmingham. It's a Haywork dealer. Um glad to have you on, buddy. Good to see you. Thanks for letting me do this. You sound great. Thank you. Extra great. We've closed all the doors. No, no, no, we can sound like this later. Enjoy your trip to Chicago.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys will all have this uh by the end. Yeah, no, it's no COVID, no uh nothing on that. So that's good.
SPEAKER_04:We're all good. Yeah, good. That's good to know.
SPEAKER_01:That's right, yeah. Well, one thing, one thing too, we were joking about uh ahead of the show, and we've said this before, is that you know, we've talked about the famous uh pre-podcast questionnaire that we give all the designers. Um but we've never given that to uh manufacturer reps or dealer people who have been on the show. And so Tim sat down and was like, Cool, I'm glad to be here. What are we doing? What are we talking about? And that's what we're now gonna figure out. That's right. So that said, all right, so we will give you a little bit more formal time. Why don't you uh tell people a little bit about yourself, like just backstory, how you got in the industry, what you do, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_03:All right, yeah. Uh Tim O'Brien, here in uh Birmingham since 2001. I was with Design Techs in St. Louis, Missouri, um, ahead of that. And uh what were you doing for them? I was uh the like sales manager of the showroom. So I entered sample orders, entered orders, customer service, and then um well I was the one that got yelled at. The other two people did not. Um and then uh and uh if there was an issue, I was putting those issues out uh with them. But yeah, I mean I did all the orders um and learned a lot from the sales rep side over there. I had a sales rep and then uh wanted to get in sales, so I applied for the Washington DC role, and they were like, Man, you you really gotta know what you're doing out there. Before you can go to the nation's capital. Meaning they wanted uh somebody that was already there, you know, established, and they said, Well, there's a position that opened up in Alabama. And uh You don't have to know anybody there.
SPEAKER_01:We don't, so you go.
SPEAKER_03:They said, We think you can do it. And I said, Who else you talk to? They're like, No one. We've been we've well that everyone else said no. Yeah, no, right. It was a territory ripe for growth. And so uh I came down with design techs for many years, and so Vince and I always did you know anybody? Um I didn't know anybody. Okay. This is you said 2001. Is that when you said 2001, yeah. Where'd you move into town? Did were you, I guess, renting at first when you first moved? I called uh there's one manufacturer's rep that let me talk, a couple of them eventually Brad Dahl was one that I, you know, really with Millikan that I uh working with. But yeah, it was a guy at Steel Case, Rusty Dunning, and he just said, trust filler Hoover. And um this is a man thinking, um, I've got a family and kids, you know. And so I set up in Hoover is where I started. And uh so were you were you did you come here on your own? Came here on my own. Yeah. Yes, yeah. How old are you then? I was 21. Okay. Uh no, I was geez, what?
SPEAKER_01:It's like I got your question.
SPEAKER_02:52 minus 24. Just go with just go with 21. It was written down, guys. Yeah. I wish I had this question out there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Number one rule of sales, own it, even if you say it wrong. Uh and I did not do that. Yeah. And then um, and then evolved in the manufacturer side with Herman Miller. Um so you were design tech for how long? Um well, let's see. I was 25 years through 2009. And what what was your territory? Alabama, Mississippi, Florida panhandle. Okay. Um at the time. And then they Jam Lynn was a wall covering company they bought, so then they divided the territories up when they, you know, Jam Lynn had a rep here, and then uh it covered everything, so she ended up taking most of Mississippi, and then I just took both things here. And so kind of I went from doing just textiles to wall covering textiles, okay, and then uh and then went to Herman Miller.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:I was a Herman Miller rep, yeah. And then uh for a few years the manufacturer's rep side, and then that led, I said I mentioned Brad Dahl, he was just a friend, somewhat of a mentor through the years anyway, and then um he was rising in his position, so he had me um uh I threw myself at him to take that role uh as well. And so uh was a millican rep for a while. And then went to OE for a bit, and then um yeah, bounce around and MDC and then uh with InnerSpace.
SPEAKER_01:So And how long have you been with InnerSpace? Uh four years now. Yeah. And you're basically running the show, right? I um no. We're all laughing. Hey Harvey, uh he's not listening. He's not listening. He's not listening anyway. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jim, Jim and Harvey. It's fine. So you're running the show.
SPEAKER_04:And I usually I'm probably gonna send them an an invite, you know, like you know, hey, Tim was on the podcast. Yeah, I'll I'll I'll tag him in the face of the page. This mark. So you've been on so customer service side, uh, then you've wrapped carpet, textiles, furniture. Yep. And now on the dealer side. Yeah. Still wrapping furniture. So so when are you gonna work for an AD firm?
SPEAKER_03:Um three weeks from now, I've got a uh spoiler alert. This is breaking news. You know, it's something in our industry we uh aren't really qualified for that part of this. Right, right. Between all these.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Except when my wife reminds me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. True. Well, when I was uh looking to get in this industry, um, and I was working at the Birmingham Museum of Art at the time and started networking, and we've talked about this before, uh, me and Chad, because he was one of the first people I met. Uh, and then I meant mentioned it to my dad about looking for a new job slash career for the first time in my life. And one of the first things he said was, Well, you're not gonna be a heart doctor. So Thanks for the confidence, man. Yeah, encouraging, I still can. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'll be one when I'm 60. I'll show you. And now look at us. Yep. All highly successful individuals here. Yeah. I mean, all of us are in the sales side of this, you know. So talk about uh your role um at Inner Space and and kind of what you do and and where you guys are your footprint and and and all that kind of good stuff. Taking some notes, little competitive notes here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And here I'm I'm thinking my I'm like I was like, oh, that's nice. He's letting them like kind of pump up inner space, and he takes it the other way. We do appreciate a good joke though. Yeah. Who's your who's your main who's your main accounts? Uh what are their email addresses?
SPEAKER_01:What's their cell phone numbers? Yeah, I know. We have had actually designers respond to questions like that before where they're like they're like, uh no. Who are your biggest clients? Yeah, I'm not gonna be able to do it. I'm not telling you.
SPEAKER_02:Cool. Next question, Chad.
SPEAKER_03:I love how like Jessica, when you had her on, she's like, My owners wanted me to tell you we do everything. Yeah, yeah. Let me read this uh prepared statement from the owners of my company. So yeah, I mean, predominantly commercial, higher ed. I can't. We compete against you guys uh quite a bit on that. Um, and then uh government, do a lot of government here and up in Huntsville. Um we've got a southern part which handles that kind of on its own. Jim Vaughn is one of the owners, he he runs that division, so I do uh Montgomery up to Huntsville. Okay, cool for us. Yeah, and it just we've got a sales team, and so you know, we're out there with sales and design and marketing, trying to push our stuff and you know, build relationships out there. Right. Nice. It's a racket. It's a racket, yeah, yeah. I'll leave the two of you for a minute. I always tell people, I'm like, it's uh it could be hard, but it ain't that hard. Uh what we do. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I th I may have told the story before, but there was uh a rep, a dealer rep in Nashville uh that we knew and had gotten to be good friends with um a client. And then he pulled her out of a meeting. Like, you know, it's like, hey, I need to talk to her now. And so she and she'd gotten to be good friends with this guy. So she comes out of the meetings like you know, hey, and he's like, hey, uh, we need to talk about like it was some furniture thing. And she's like, Oh my god. I mean, so you know, I thought somebody like had died. Like this is furniture, yeah, you know? Like, you know, yes. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, so to put everything in perspective, um, to do what we do, you don't need a degree. Um and it's not life or death. It's not being a heart surgeon.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. We're not saving lives. No.
SPEAKER_03:No. But there there is a level of persistence, a level of um, you know, delivery, deliverable to do. But yeah, like when I sometimes come home uh from interspace, which we're just down the road, I drive by and you know, people don't realize just driving by these buildings how much uh business is happening, how much is going on. I mean, you know, you drive by these things and just not aware just beautiful you know facades out front. Right and then inside there's people stressing out, people working late. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I I tend to be blind to like our own the cities that we call on and look into because we're I guess we're because we know them so well. But when you're traveling, you're going by like you go by buildings, you're like, look at all that furniture. I don't know. Is anybody else?
SPEAKER_01:It's so funny you say that because when we were as at the start of that story, I knew where it was gonna go. Yeah. And um and and when we landed in Chicago for Neocon this year, um, and like we're getting close into the city on the interstate, that was the first thing that Richie Hammer said. Um who's been in the business for for years and he works here with me. Um, but he was like, that's just the way like he sees skyscrapers and is like, man, that's a lot of furniture.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I had uh when it was during the pandemic, I was up in Chicago, um, I don't think it was 2020, it was maybe 2021, but needed to meet a client at the merchandise mart. And it the city was still shut down at that point. So like Monday morning, I'm walking to the merchandise mart, and there's hardly anybody walking on the streets. The city's just you know empty, which is so strange. Yeah. And went into the merchandise mart. There's like one person in Starbucks. I'm like, what you know, it's so weird. Um but then got on the tree was like, What are you doing? Yeah, yeah. But we both screamed and ran the opposite direction. Um but got on the L to head back to the airport and was, you know, the L's right up there with all the buildings, and it was going by, and you could see all through all the windows, but there it was and it was Monday afternoon at like two o'clock in the afternoon, and it was just empty, empty, empty, empty of all this, all this furniture. It was crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. Yeah. So things we see. Yeah. Right. I mean, you probably flip tables or um, I mean, not like you know, in a restaurant. I could nobody seem no doubt.
SPEAKER_01:Or uh chairs, chair Johnson. He is known for his temper. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, in a restaurant or a lobby, you know, see something.
SPEAKER_04:We were we were we were at uh Mississippi State, because my daughter's looking at colleges, and we were at Mississippi State, and there was a there was a chair that we sat in in this uh one of the um classrooms. And I'm like, huh, this is kind of it's a funky kind of old chair. And I flipped it over. It's KI. I'm like, uh KI. Yeah. I liked I liked the chair up until I realized it was a KI.
SPEAKER_02:Up until you figure out who it is, it is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so so just from the perspective, people listening, you know, Chad, when he's flipping a chair, uh so like Mark and I, we flip a chair, like, cool, okay, yeah, that's something we can sell. Yeah. Right. And Chad's like, hopefully, this is some manufacturer no one's ever heard of that I could reach out and create a contract. Right. And you know, kind of get that, you know. So it's a whole different thing.
SPEAKER_04:And I think I don't know if anyone's ever heard of that company before. No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01:No. Well, you yeah, to Tim's point, you would want to know, like, ah, like, could I sell this? And we're like, oh, like this is KI. We would, however, not miss the opportunity to make fun of Chris and Aaron. Absolutely. Anytime we can the KI reps. Yeah, yeah. The married couple of Chris and the married couple with matching trucks.
SPEAKER_03:Always with the never a cardigan, always pullovers, uh sweaters. Well, they play a lot of golf.
SPEAKER_01:They do, they play a lot of golf. So I can't wait till we see them again because I actually don't know if they listen. I don't know if they do or not. Probably not. Knowing them. Yeah, knowing them. Yeah. They're out selling too much KI to have time.
SPEAKER_04:Listening to themselves, you know, uh more than that. I was trying to roast them, and then you're like sticking a dagger in my heart. They're probably selling too much furniture chat while you're doing the talking. Oh, I didn't even see probably.
SPEAKER_02:I missed where that joke took a turn. Yeah, and hang out with friends, and then go to a happy hour with the same people that we're on the show with.
SPEAKER_01:We should just keep the mics running at the bar. We should have, yeah, we should just have the meeting here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I thought I actually thought that. Yeah. Oh well. Next time. Yeah. Next time. When we have uh uh Aaron and uh what's his name? Chris. Chris. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:We have Aaron and Chris on.
SPEAKER_04:You know what we should do is we should have um we should have uh Lauren back on and Mickey and Tim like another round of them before we get to Kevin. Yeah, I like just continue to have them back on the podcast, but never have Kevin on. Bring him in for like the last five minutes.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's when he'll show up. So Boom roasted. You're a Drake guy, Kevin. We'd love you.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I'm gonna stop telling jokes about every breath in here.
SPEAKER_04:Uh so let's let's talk about your book. You just published a book. Yes, yeah. Road growth. Road growth. I've got a copy right here. Yes, you do, man. I love it. I love it. Yeah, yeah. So tell tell us about like when did you start thinking about writing that and what's the book about?
SPEAKER_03:Um thought about that idea of I I read all the time. I still do this day in podcast, you know, anything, anything to do with like sales presenting, you know, trying to you know get better um at what you're doing. So you don't listen to this podcast then? I don't listen to this at all. You're not gonna learn anything. I just have uh chat GPT give me the notes on it. It says don't bother. It says don't bother. Yeah, it's really just when you guys are talking, when the designers are talking, it's pretty uh eloquent, you know. But uh you're not wrong. So um but yeah, just it it part of it is I always tell my kids, if you can learn to sell, and sell has such a bad connotation in our not in our industry. I mean sales reps rockier, but I mean just out there, use car salesmen and stuff. But I'm like selling isn't just hey, here's a product, I want you to buy it, but it's also you're selling yourself every day, you know, who you're talking to, how you carry yourself. Yeah, and uh every every single person is a salesperson. Yes, yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, no matter what they're doing. Right and uh so it was kind of um I've always liked the books, I had to kind of like Who Moved My Cheese, um, about the kind of fables kind of thing. And I'm like, well, I can kind of mix somewhat of my own life moving down here, not really knowing how to sell, and kind of getting my butt kicked uh several times by doing something stupid or just something I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do. Right. And um I just kind of created this story. Instead of just like, you know, here presenting and here's the steps, right? I thought it'd just be a little bit better to put in a more of a story like a guy's growth uh through time. How much of it is autobiographical? Um probably about 25% of it. Okay. Uh just kind of in there. I was in St. Louis, I was not making a ton of money, and you know, the opportunity to come down here. Part of it was financially. Um, but you know, um, I always go back to I tried to be rock star for a while when I was I went to school to try to be rock star. I did a little bit of a little bit of touring, and um, I was not very good at it. I was not good at the business side of it or anything. But you could rock. But I could rock, still do, still do, man. How is Dirty Curtain Room still around? Uh Dirty Curtain Room is still around. We've got um nine kids between the three of us, so there's a lot of uh extracurricular activities that do take that time up. Um yeah, yeah, Misty Richardson and then uh Brian Edwards, who's actually on a podcast today on a is in another band. Yeah. Um sorry, Misty. I know. Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking. She might be on one too, yeah. Yeah, she's on one too, much more important one. About music. Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I did start to realize, well, I don't mind getting in front of people. You know, I kind of like you know, sales presenting, there's a little bit of adrenaline, how you're doing it all. Right. Like so that started to make sense.
SPEAKER_04:Well, was part of it that you were you were in customer service dealing with sales reps, I assume. Yes. And you thought these people if these people can do it. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's another thing I tell fans.
SPEAKER_03:I can do it.
SPEAKER_01:How long how long did you did you work on it?
SPEAKER_03:Like when when when was kind of the catalyst for starting the about four years ago, I kind of got the idea just kind of going down. And um, it really was what are the points that I want to make? And then I think, you know, every year I try to, you know, like we do in our businesses, goal setting, kind of what we want to do. And you know, these this one just kept going every year. Right putting things out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm just like, you know, I think I might have the energy, have the time. Early mornings, that's where I have the time. Right. And um, you know, instead of just sitting there early in the morning scrolling, um, it's uh, you know, I like want to put that in the city.
SPEAKER_04:So did you have to get up earlier or did you just uh reprioritize what you were doing in the morning?
SPEAKER_03:Um when I was a runner, I was a big time runner. Um when I was single. I mean, that was what I did. I was president of the track club for a little bit. Then once you attract somebody, you're like, I don't need to run it. Once I got married and had kids, that just became a real possibility. And so it's a kid's fault. I always blame the children. Yeah. Talk to a one of the kids' doctors one time. He just said, you know what? So give up another hour of your sleep. What's gonna happen? It might give you time. I'm like, ah, it's good. So so that went from like 6.15 to 515, and probably for the last five years it's been about 415 uh is when I get up.
SPEAKER_04:415?
SPEAKER_03:415. Dang, what's it? When do you go to bed? Um like 10 through 10. Yeah. When he's not rocking out. 6 p.m. Yeah. As soon as I get home from my commute, I don't see my family.
SPEAKER_04:I love being a dad, uh, but I haven't seen them in years.
unknown:Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_03:Well, so it was one of those things. Where can I find what I want to do? I've got to sacrifice something. And so about an hour of sleep, um, you know, I was able to carve out and then just be productive.
SPEAKER_04:4 15, is that what you said? 415.
SPEAKER_03:415. And so you you would write until what time? Um, usually uh start getting the kids up around six or so. So give me a little time. A little pot. Or I'd still time some go run or a little workout, uh kind of, you know, some days. Some days it was there, sometimes it wasn't. But once I decided I wanted to finish it, it really was like it's like getting a presentation together. You know, kind of set your own timelines and kind of what needed to be.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And how long how long has it been out now? Um for about a month. Okay. And uh I guess the one little thing is on Amazon, under sales and marketing and sales presentations, uh, it was number eight for two weeks. There you go.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So how did you get it published? Like what's the process there?
SPEAKER_03:That is unbelievably simple. Unfortunately, too simple because the first time I did it, uh when I put it out, I had a guy in Texas I know be like, dude, like this looks like a seventh grader with dyslexia wrote this thing, man. He's like, There's misspelling, there's uh, you know, and and stuff. And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, I did a a couple chat, I did chat GPT and uh grammarly, you know, for I got a lot of the punctuation and stuff. But some of the phrases and stuff. Did you not have anybody read it prior to um I did not. Okay. I did not, yeah. I was just kind of knocking this thing out of my own. I just chapter by chapter I kind of dig in. Okay. I don't like that part. I will say I don't like that part. Um the editing part of it. Right. Yeah, yeah. And so, but so it's your your question. Um Amazon, it's like Kindle, KDP. And um you could you could put all your transcripts onto it, and it'll make a paperback for you on demand. When you ordered one, it makes it on demand. Okay. Um then you could edit. Uh I can go back in, edit it, change it, and put it in. And then any new paperback would have those edits, and then uh the ebook automatically uploads uh the changes. Oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_01:We can't I don't think anybody's gonna buy transcripts of this show, but we could, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that wasn't uh like a recommendation, that was just an example.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I was seeing dollar signs. Yeah. We've been looking for a while. And this is how we go in debt. Uh somehow we owe Amazon money. Well, the the print on demand, yeah, you don't have to get a bunch printed, and so there's no upfront costs, really. Yeah, correct. Yeah, just time.
SPEAKER_03:You know, labor, uh, labor of love.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because I've got a few friends of mine that have I've got one friend of mine that is currently he he quit his job and is now writing. And so um so he's trying to write screenplays and short stories, and um but he he does give things to friends to read and like ask for feedback and that sort of thing, which which is a little it's pressure. I've done it a couple times, and I'm like, uh really have a problem with this part of it? You know, it's like if you're yeah, it's kind of you know, thank you so much. It's an honor for me to read this. Let me trash it. You know, it's kind of like you know, correct, yeah. Um but yeah, so you so you didn't give it to anybody to to prove for you know, just kind of was like, I'm doing it, it's done, and it's out there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I will say it was a guy up in um Minnesota, an old sales rep in the design tech's days, I sent it up to him. Okay, and um, yeah, I mean I I don't know if you read it. He just said, Yeah, yeah, it looks good.
SPEAKER_05:This is great. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it was funny because you when you first put it online, like you put it out on Facebook, social media, whatever. I said, I wrote a book, yeah, whatever. Yeah um, I can tell you just because knowing your personality, I was like, all right, is that real? Yeah, did you actually write a book? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so um and so I did I went through, it was like, and I clicked on the author to see if there were other books, and then there was like some weird, like, and I sent it to you, I was like, Did you write this one too? Yeah. And it was like some Christmas bizarre bizarre Christmas thing thing or something. Yeah, and you were like, I wish. And I'm like, okay. This is you know, I it so initially I thought you had not written a book. I thought you were just messing with people. Appreciate it, man. It's first thought. There's no way he's pulling it.
SPEAKER_03:No way Tim did this.
SPEAKER_04:Well, because when we when we had Lauren on, we talked about it before we started recording. We're like, so did you see Tim? You know, Tim came out with a book and we're like, yeah. It's like, do we think it's real?
SPEAKER_03:It's like, and so there was You don't want to be the one that everyone else knows and you don't, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Are you kidding me? No, we didn't, you know. Well, because Brian McMahon also, uh but it was his son, but they have the same name. Like I think his son's name. So he like he he had one time sitting, and Brian McMahon is uh somebody who'd been in the industry for a long time that had been in office environments and was at business interiors prior to that. But he had a son that had written a book and he posted it on social media. It was like, hey, I just want to let everybody know, but it's it's Brian McMahon. He didn't distinguish that it was his son that wrote it, I don't think, in his post. No, you're right, I remember that. And so everyone was like, Hey man, that's awesome! Congratulations. You know, people were buying the book because they thought it was his, but he just ran with it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Two things have happened. One guy said, Hey, I want to give this to this sales team that's in like dental supplies. You know, I want to get these. Can you take out the swearing? Oh, and um and you were like, No. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, are you in sales? Like, yeah, and uh well, the other thing I get, a lot of people is like, dude, I've been wanting to write a book forever. Like, what'd you do? What were the steps? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. That's why I was asking all those questions. Like, what time did you get up? And how long would you write? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I've I've had it in my mind to write one for a long time. But yeah, it's I can't let anything interfere with it because it sucks your time.
SPEAKER_03:You know, you get so distracted, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I have some of the I have a some dental school questions. What did he want to do with it? Like teach it to his class?
SPEAKER_03:No, he's uh he had a friend who was like a sales leader of uh dental supply. Dental supply. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because I'm sitting there like, neither one of us have any dental background. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I haven't been to the dentist in a while. Can we can we shift gears for just a second? I asked you guys some questions. It hurts right here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Did you take a look at this? This just fell out of my face. Um is that supposed to do that?
SPEAKER_01:I have a story about a guy's tooth falling out on the table while he was eating corn on the cob, but I'll tell y'all later. Whoa. Um yeah. Can't wait. Yeah, it's gonna be great. Um we got the and what was what was the the did he just not like swearing? I mean, he did he expand on that?
SPEAKER_03:And he's um uh uh you know someone on the religious side too, and just you know, and he's like, this thing has so much potential if you just you know take out some.
SPEAKER_01:So one last question based on this. How much swearing is in there? Not a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Not a lot. Yeah, yeah no. Okay, yeah. I I I gave it to my son to read. He's seven. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And he was he it took him a couple weeks to drop his first F bombs. Yeah, yeah. There's no F-bombs. There's a WTM.
SPEAKER_04:Well, when the book came in, I did I I gave it to him and I was like, act like you're reading this book. And so he was he was on the bed with it flipped open, and I sent it to Tim, and I was like, hey, you know, but got your book, and you know, it's uh the whole family's reading it or something. And he's like, Okay, well just just so you know, there is some swearing in the book. Immediately it was like and I didn't I didn't write back, oh don't worry, he's not actually reading it and put it down immediately.
SPEAKER_01:As soon as I stopped taking photos on, he stopped. So Amazon would be the place to buy this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and then um Amazon, I mean it's also on Apple. There's another group um that takes it on the ebook side and puts it everywhere. Barnes and Noble. Um it's on the library apps too, which is pretty cool. Uh hoop run stuff, yeah. That's way to go, buddy. Thank you, man.
SPEAKER_04:So how long did it take? I mean how when you started how long you said you had the idea for four years, but then I've got to be a little bit more.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I probably wrote like the first couple chapters four years ago, and that took about a week, and then just kind of back burner that thing. And then um this took about four months probably this year of just kind of doing it. Getting up early and not. Well, already getting up early, though. Yeah, using that time just yeah for that little bit more focused.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So when you upload it, so I guess I'm getting the sense that it's kind of like the way we feed this podcast. Like you the eBook, the ebook version, you upload it, and then it kind of feeds the library apps and the app. Is that all going through Amazon?
SPEAKER_03:Um, that's this, and I I can't think of the company's name. I can get it for you, but that's this is all they do. They take a chunk of your money. I mean, not a huge chunk, but yeah, they put it out there, they collect it, yeah. Um all the the monies that come in from it. Right.
SPEAKER_04:And you set you set the price and kind of what your market is.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. They've got kind of limits, minimum, and then uh uh things. Yeah, I mean it's it's on Amazon and Turkey. I mean, it's crazy. No one's bought it in Turkey yet. Yes, yeah, yet. Till all the people in Turkey listening to this. Right, this is Turkish listeners.
SPEAKER_04:So it's probably the language that's keeping them from downloading it.
SPEAKER_01:What's funny is like we're recording right now and Tim's seeing some old coworkers. And it's like Tim wants to get up.
SPEAKER_04:You can leave for a second if you need to work in just talk to me. John Owens wants to come in. And fortunately, neither of those three things happened.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but now it's now the moment is passed. Passing in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Do we have any actual uh real questions for Tim about the industry? Or it's like tell us about yourself. Well, we wanted to tell us about your book.
SPEAKER_01:We wanted you to get on here and and and and promote your book. Absolutely. Well, thank you. Yeah. So unless uh do you have questions for us?
SPEAKER_03:I was just gonna say, I I kind of do. And I mean because I think all three of us know like what a blessing. This industry is for us. I mean that the likes of us can live fairly nice in our lives doing this. But I mean, I won't take offense to that. The likes of us.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, am I wrong?
SPEAKER_04:We went again, we went the opposite direction. I thought I was like, oh, that was very nice of him. Open him up.
SPEAKER_03:Like you said, if anyone, you know, if he can do it. No. But I mean, yeah. We're not Kevin. If the likes of Kevin can do it. Kevin Banks, yeah. With Technon. I worked with him at OE. That guy was one of the hardest working at the time on the dealer sales computer. When he was with the caveat. He used to be. Afterwards, I figured, but I don't know. Yeah, right. And uh now just seeing um this industry, the designers, what have you guys just kind of taken as an overview of like the here and up in Huntsville? I mean, just kind of the day-to-day um work that the work ethic that they have that's kind of caught you like, huh, I didn't actually realize that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, I'll I I may not answer that question directly, but I will go first and say, so again, a lot of people know this, but before I started at NBI, I was the global AD rep based here in Birmingham, Cover, Alabama, Memphis, Mississippi, and Baton Rouge, New Orleans. But my my my regional manager, shout out to Tony Nelson, who's based in Atlanta, and that's where the closest global showroom is. And so that was a little bit of a home base away from home. Um and then I had the opportunity with Global to travel Chicago several times. I went to Dallas, uh, Tampa, Chattanooga, um Philly, uh Seattle, again, like all the kind of global events. And so I I give you that background just to say that I got to go into a lot of different markets. And one thing that I noticed about this market in Alabama and and Mississippi as well, which is obviously much, much smaller, but that like everybody for the most part gets along. Like the A D, the AD firms get along, the designers get along, the the reps get along. I mean, like, you know, you and I work for competing dealerships, but like you're a buddy of mine. Absolutely. You know, Kevin doesn't work for either one of us, and and and and when we and we tease him on this show and everything like that, but it's like out of love. Um but then people get along. It's not like that. Yeah, yeah, where it can be really cutthroat, even amongst the AD firms, but especially amongst reps and dealers. And that's interesting to me because their their their circularity, which is not necessarily the correct word, but the way that they can just making stuff up. I'm gonna write a book. But the way the way that the way that they can move around, the same way that people move around jobs here, right? So you can be a rep for this company for a little while, and then maybe you move, or you work for this dealership, and then maybe you move to another dealership. Like that's that happens in the larger markets the same as it happens here.
SPEAKER_06:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:So it's just funny how like people could like vehemently hate either a firm or a dealership or a manufacturer today, and then like three and a half years later, they might be working there. Yeah. You know, um, or working with the people that they didn't like. And so, you know, that's that's one of the things that I I really like about this market is that you know, you know, everybody, everybody for the most part gets too much. You know we especially on the dealership side, like we we battle it out and you know, you want it you want to win. Um but uh you know, people, you know, at the end of the day, people go off for cocktails afterwards. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Yeah. I mean I I did when I was uh one of the hosting the ID awards, oh, I don't know how many years ago. It was we were at um the ballpark, Regents Field. Um I talked about where I did this this year? Not this previous yeah. The previous one, yeah. And I was talking about where seems like that was five months ago. Yeah my memory's not so good anymore, too. Um but I talked about where I, you know, I don't have a a nemesis, you know, I needed I need to create a fake fake nemesis to you know to yeah, and I mentioned both of you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it was and kind of you know, even because even the people that I compete against, you know, for the most part, there's enough business going around that you know every all of us can get some piece of it and do okay. Um so like you know, if so, you know, like there's certain reps that you know that they win a project, I'm like, oh well, good for the and I I didn't get this one, but you know, I'm happy for them, you know, it's good for them. Right. Um yeah, so it's it is it's nice.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if that was the answer to the question you were looking for, but no, I just meant you know, it's it's interviewing these interior designers here, open your eyes to anything you weren't really aware of. We don't really listen to them. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:We just go to the next question. Yeah, no, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What what I've noticed is um I mean, all of them, you know, go in. A lot of them love what they're doing immediately, and others had to kind of go, oh, yeah, yeah. Kind of find their spot. Yeah, you know, we don't always see that on our side.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And well, and then also same thing, even talking to the designers about their schooling and what they like, there's a bunch of them that had started at a different direction and then found their way to interior design. And uh there's quite a few that were on the science, like you know, biology or some sort of science, which is more of a technical brain type, um but loved the getting into interior design and there was the creative aspect of it, but there's also the technical side, so it kind of spoke to both. Um I mean I I think that's that's probably that's been one of the things. Um you know, we we've talked about it, maybe not on the podcast. You know, one thing that I think um we've discovered is that audit designers don't know each other outside of their own firms, um which is something that um you know you have IDA events and it's you know that you go to them in certain, you know, you've got firms kind of in clumps, you know. Yeah, um that the reps, you know, generally know everybody. We're the ones floating. Kind of working out. Yeah, but yeah, I think you know, if if IDA, if I have a suggestion to uh maybe some IDA people, some way to try to mix up firms when you get to an event where they don't all congregate in the same kind of shovel.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. It it has been nice getting to know better the people that we know. Yeah, correct. I mean I enjoy that too. I say that about you. Like, you know, you were talking about your your history and coming from St. Louis, you know, I didn't I didn't know that. There was some things that you mentioned there that that I was not aware aware of. So some for some of the veteran, you know, mid-range to veteran designers, you know, there's always something. You don't know everything about everybody. Yeah, no, right? No, no, yeah. And then for the younger designers, it's been nice too, especially for the ones that um you know, there's a couple that we that we that either Chad, one of us or both of us kind of know was like invited. There's a few that have been on the show where it's like either hey Mark or hey Chad, I know this person exists, but I've never talked to them. I've talked to them once for seven seconds. Let's invite them on the show. And then now I see them out. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, give them a hug and how's your mom and them? Yeah, yeah. So it's it's a it's been a nice, real, really nice icebreaker there. Cause now it's like, oh, like, yeah, we know these people.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, let's force them into a room to talk to us for an hour. Shut the door. Shut the door. Go and find out. Then by the end of it, it turns out we know them more. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Especially, especially in the in our in our first studio, which was in a different conference room that had no windows. Now now we're we're and a lot of boxes and junk.
SPEAKER_03:By request. Uh glass. By request, witnesses. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Office hours. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yes. With witnesses.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we have found we have been sued far less since we've moved to this. That's a better turn. I do have some rapid fire questions that if we want to do those, uh, because I think they they tend to not be rapid fire anymore. Yeah, no, you're right. They're a little bit more long form. Um I'll start with the website.
SPEAKER_01:You start, yeah, because I've got my 17 or 17. All right.
SPEAKER_04:So my first question for you, Tim do you still have a copy of the bathroom ambiance song that you created for the 2005 ID Awards?
SPEAKER_03:It is. It's on a computer that's I've got like three of them sitting, a laptop. I think I do have that. Do you have a copy of that?
SPEAKER_04:I think I do somewhere.
SPEAKER_03:Or in the bathroom. Do you know what this is, Mark? No, I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
SPEAKER_04:Ambiance song is what this is for. So um and the blue man group, if you're familiar with the blue man group, um, when they were in Chicago, I saw them in Chicago, and you'd go into the bathroom, and the you wouldn't notice it initially, but the music's playing just was bathroom, bathroom, bathroom, bathroom, bathroom, bathroom. Oh, that's right. Yeah, so they're just saying the word bathroom, but they're kind of cycling it around. And so we were creating it was this was the second ID Awards, I guess. Yeah. Uh and I Alabama Theater. Alabama Theater. We were both on the we're both on the committee, and I was like, you know, it'd be great is if we had a themed bathroom song that played while you're in the bathroom. So C D players at the time. Boom boxes. Yeah. So he recorded a song about you're in the bathroom at the ID Awards. Yeah. Bathroom Ambiance is what the song's for, or something like that. Um and had boom boxes playing it, and it was on loop.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. That's a great story.
SPEAKER_03:And I remember going down in the middle of something, and it was just me and some other guy in uh standing there, and I'm just like, I just start singing along. All right.
SPEAKER_01:All right. All right, I've I've picked my question. Okay, good. What is the strangest item you have in your car right now?
SPEAKER_03:Ah, strangest item in my car right now. A piece of faux and real fur. There's some company. My wife works with Flower Magazine. She's a publisher, she's awesome, much smarter than me. Um they just did this. But wouldn't publish your book? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I knew one of us was gonna pick that up. In fact, she was like, wait, you did what? Yeah, no. Um they had a design show house up in Nashville, and there were these samples of these um uh I mean it looks like it's you know just like a cutout of a real pelt, but it's this faux and also real, somehow blend. And only reason I remember I have it back there in my third row is because um Halloween had to take a couple people around, and and they're like, what is this?
SPEAKER_04:To me, that's something strange when other people are like it's a so it's a combination of real and fake.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think I'll show it to you guys. Okay. I'll bring it up. Bring it to the bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:We won't draw attention to ourselves. All right. So you've been, like I mentioned, you've been a carpet rep, furniture rep, textile rep. Why is being a furniture rep better than the other two?
SPEAKER_03:Why is it being better than the other two?
SPEAKER_04:Um because I'm a furniture rep, that's why I said I'm gonna go.
SPEAKER_03:Way more headaches, way more parts and pieces. Uh no, better, way more expectations, deliverables. And uh it's it's way more fulfilling, challenging, I think. Um nothing wrong with the others. I mean, man, Vince to me has just become the master of the momentum. You know what I mean? He just does it right. And some days, believe me, at three o'clock on a Friday, I call him and he's like cracking open a beer, you know, and he's killing his numbers, and I'm like, yeah, I'm just trying to get through.
SPEAKER_01:Did we talk about Vince since we had the show?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01:Because just talking about because we talk about Vince a lot on the show, because he's uh he's a good dude and and we love him. But he had like his momentum regional manager with him at the show, which is familiar with how Vince normally does trade shows, yeah. Yeah, with his like you know, four four memos and a business card, and he just walks around. And he wanders around. Um and so for those who are listening that don't know what the show is, it's a biannual uh uh manufacturer eventually trade show that we have here in Birmingham. And so Vince brought his regional with him, and like the day before and the day of his regional was very serious about setting things up, and like they went to FedEx and got things printed. They went to Hobby Lobby and bought a tablecloth, and like and like it was just mind-blowing for Vince. He was also a little bit nervous because of this whole setup. And then when it got done though, he's like, I have to admit though, it does look great. A modicum of effort into setting up for a trade show.
SPEAKER_04:And then he reached out to us afterward to congratulate, largely congratulate himself on what a great job he did on his booth. Yes, yeah, yeah. But then also to thank us for putting it on the street.
SPEAKER_01:But his his regional manager was very uh pleased with Vince's performance. You know, it's the sales numbers that they they care about. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:As long as you're making your numbers, they don't care what your booth looks like. Yeah, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um all right. So the client sends a last minute email at 9 p.m. Read it now or wait until morning.
SPEAKER_03:I read it and I try to immediately forward it to someone else to take care of. No. I respond, saying receive this, and um, you know.
SPEAKER_04:So you respond like I've got it, I've I've seen it, I'll but let me dig into it tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to get better at that.
SPEAKER_03:Because otherwise, that's something I've learned. You know, I mean, you know, we all get up in the middle of the night, you know, go to the bathroom, and then you think about something. Oh man, and I've just started to I started to write all those things down so I could quit like thinking about I'm trying to go to sleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, um, but and then yeah, anything I can get off to at least, hey, I've already addressed this. I know, you know, uh kind of doesn't always work, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What's the biggest takeaway someone uh will get from reading your book?
SPEAKER_03:I am not a good writer. You know, I swears a lot. Yeah, that's right. I think that um I would like them to take away that uh no matter what you do in life, you can get better at it. And don't just give up on something if you're just like, ah, I wasn't able to do that. Again, it's sound a little bit just for my kids to say, hey, you're gonna do things and you're gonna mess up. And it's it's it's that point. Those are the points. That's where you learn the most. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean moving to a city. There's big points in life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, that are uh put together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Uh what is one thing you know a surprisingly large amount about that has nothing to do with this industry?
SPEAKER_03:Writing a book. Um noticing a theme. Um songwriting, I guess, Kiss. I I love the band Kiss. Yeah, huge, huge Kiss.
SPEAKER_01:Is that your favorite band?
SPEAKER_03:In fact, uh, I mean through the years, yeah, you know, now I mean um lately. The Third Eye Blind has been taking over my life music-wise. It's just they had something in the early 90s, you know. Yeah, just since they've come through. They were in town last year. Okay. So are they coming out with new stuff? They are.
SPEAKER_04:And the KISS members now are starting to die off.
SPEAKER_03:They are, yeah. Ace Freely, rest in peace, man. But R I B. Yeah. And uh yeah, Tony Truett Insurance fell over here. I think that I read it like that was announced it today, man. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That was he died because he he fell down. He fell down, man. 70 something, but yeah. Oh no. What is your biggest industry pet peeve?
SPEAKER_03:Industry pet peeve, um, lying. People would just BS, you know, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I I I don't know why you didn't get that email. I sent it, it must have been kicked back. Right. You know, oh yeah, yeah. Did you not receive it? I tried calling, you didn't see my missed call on the phone. Yeah. Yeah, just kind of those those little things. It's mistakes happen, things happen, you don't need to, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'll get it too. Right, you know. I've learned that the hard way too. That's you kind of in the book. They do kind of, you know. Um you lied to people and then later lied to people. Maybe even right now. Yeah. He's not Timothy P.
SPEAKER_01:O'Brien. And he did not write Road Girl. He's been trolling us for the room. Who the hell is in this room with us? It's funny, I keep looking at these questions, and they're either like very specifically directed toward an interior designer, obviously. Or I read the question like that's dumb. Or I'm like, this could read like from me to Tim like I'm fishing for information from a competitor. And that's not what I go with one of those. Yeah. Let's see what you got. Uh so uh well, because uh I wanted because I'm just curious, because you've been in the industry for a while. What's the single best piece of swag you have ever received?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's good. You guys do a good job of swag. I will say that. Oh, thank you. Um yeah, overall. I can't think of anything. He's looking at you, he's not looking at me. Single piece piece of slag, uh swag. Slag. Yeah, slag. Coal. Let me give you a free piece of advice. Stop giving clients coal. I mean, it's uh I I'm a pen guy. I always need pens around. And so it's not, it's it's the practical, it's the functional. Right. That's the best for meme. Um yeah. I think uh big fans walking by.
SPEAKER_01:Again, witnesses, office hours. Yes, right, right.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yeah. Gentlemanly conversations. Yeah, yeah. What's the best piece of advice you've received from someone in the industry?
SPEAKER_03:Um probably Ken Martin from Office Environments was a huge mentor to me. Okay, and um uh he swore quite a bit. Um swear more often, Tim. That was the advice. And he's like, you know, he said, never, never ask, or if you're saying something, don't say it like it's a question. Like, who's gonna lead this? You know, just say if you gotta say that, just say I'm gonna lead it until someone else tells you not to, uh, kind of thing. Just be a little bit more confident. He really helped me kind of in my confidence. When I got to Herman Miller, design text was great because I'm going seeing everybody, hey, and then uh you go to the manufacturer side and they're like, Yeah, we've already seen like three chairs this week. We don't need to see another chair. I'm like, but it's uh you know, Herman Miller. And so you know it was a bit of a shock, it was a bit of a change, you know, that side. You know, everyone wants to see fabrics, everyone wants to see colors. Yeah, you know, so it's a little easy. You know, Lori Bailey, she mentioned that it was a little harder going from carpet into furniture for a while. Yeah, you know, it kind of caught her off guard. And so that now T was very good at just like, man, that just a day. And she left furniture. Yes. She did.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, quit her carpet.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. So we're over here. We're over here sticking it out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, huh. Um if you weren't in your current job, what would you be doing?
SPEAKER_03:I would probably be um like Mark Crossini, probably a sales coach. Kind of something like that. I'd enjoy that aspect of what I do. Okay. Helping, hey, here's a dilemma, here's something, hey, how can I get better at this? I love that part, I really do. And and writing that really kind of brought out a lot of that, how much I do enjoy uh within that. So yeah. Cool. Trying to get people to give me money to talk, you know, just like we do now. You know? Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. All right. Well, it's uh almost time for us to go to the bar. All right. Yeah, for sure. So um thank you so much for being on. Uh we usually at the end, uh I'm thinking if if you've got a copy of the Bathroom Ambiance song that you can send me, okay, yeah. We'll have that close out the podcast. I love it. Yeah, we'll do that as the closeout for our podcast versus a custom AI song. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we don't need a custom AI song when we have a musician.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Awesome. And if not, I'll recreate it. I'll swear better from there. Yeah. Talk about talk about lying. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Thanks again for being here. Appreciate it, guys. Appreciate you both, man. Yeah, thanks, Tim.
SPEAKER_01:Appreciate it.