Episode #60 - Interview with Sarah Moore

Join us on this episode of All-In Design, as we speak with Sarah Moore of Sarah Catherine Design. This episode was a bit of a departure for us, with more of a focus on residential design and in exploring Sarah's journey from commercial design to starting her own firm in the residential world. It's a lively discussion about details big and small and about how to add layers to make a space feel more welcoming and intentional. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:10

From the sumptuous environment of the IIDA Alabama recording studio, this is All In Design. Hello and welcome to All In Design, IIDA Alabama's podcast. Thank you for listening. My name's Chad Moore here with my co-host Mark Griffo.

SPEAKER_09 0:31

Hey everybody.

SPEAKER_06 0:32

And uh today we've got a very special guest.

SPEAKER_09 0:34

Very special.

SPEAKER_06 0:35

So special. Uh this is our first time meeting here. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 0:38

This has never happened in 60 episodes. We've always known the person ahead of time. Right. In some form or fashion.

SPEAKER_06 0:43

Right. So the first question probably will largely just be who are you? Who are you? Yeah. Did you just wander in? So yeah, I'm really excited because she did fill out the questionnaire, which we send to everybody, and I was really intrigued by a lot of our answers. So I'm looking forward to getting into that. But Mark, if you'll introduce our guess.

SPEAKER_09 1:04

Kudos to filling out the questionnaire well. Because some people don't. Some people fill it out really well, some people don't fill it out at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Even in a creative industry.

SPEAKER_09 1:14

Even in a creative industry. Some people think that they're just gonna wing it, and some people do. We've had people come in here that that wing it and they don't wing it very well, and then we've had people that come in here and wing it. And they're a fantastic guy. We're like surprised. We're like we're nervous because they didn't fill it out.

SPEAKER_06 1:28

And then we're like, I think it's because yeah, we've had we the early on we had a few that didn't fill it out fully. Like they just put like one sentence answers, or it's like I I can expand on this later. And then we got into the podcast, and you could tell where they kept looking at the piece of paper, trying to find answers. And it was like, there's nothing on there.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

What did I say about that? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:45

And then others where they didn't put much down and were like, oh, this is gonna go bad. And then it was great because they they could talk.

SPEAKER_09 1:52

So yep. So well, on to the on to the mystery guest. So we're uh happy to introduce Sarah Moore. She is the owner and lead designer of Sarah Catherine Design here in Birmingham.

SPEAKER_07 2:04

And my cousin. Um just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Maybe, maybe. We're doing a 23andme after this.

SPEAKER_09 2:11

It's a small world, yeah. So possibly Chad's cousin, uh Enneagram 7, and owner and lead designer of Sarah Catherine Design. Sarah Moore, welcome to the show. We're glad to have you.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_09 2:22

We'll let you uh take it from here if you want to tell the folks a little bit about yourself. Yeah. We'd love to hear about you.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

So I'm not a Birmingham native. I grew up in Marietta, Georgia. Um, both my parents are from the Birmingham area, so all of my family ties are here. Uh and I I don't necessarily come from any entrepreneurs or particularly creative parents. My dad, he kind of has an engineer brain, so I definitely think growing up he would always get into projects, but they'd be more building stuff in his workshop or stuff like that. And so I I took the more a little bit more artistic, creative route, but I think still a little bit of that I like to build and create stuff more than I just want to paint. And um so I interdesign my mom swears that I came home from high school in the 10th grade and just announced I'm gonna be an inter designer when I grow up. And I don't really recall this. It doesn't, it tracks. It definitely tracks, but I'm not necessarily tracks for both of you. Well, like I can totally see that I probably did say that, but I don't have this like lasting memory of the few.

SPEAKER_06 3:33

And could it be that you've you said that about a bunch of professions?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

No, I probably not.

SPEAKER_06 3:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Because I really feel like it was sort of I have the recollection of through high school just knowing like, well, I'm gonna go to Auburn because I grew up an Auburn fan. So Auburn was the destination. And honestly, Auburn fans?

SPEAKER_06 3:51

Bama fans. Bama. Oh, okay. So you were you were there's a lot of people. This is gonna be a therapy session, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Again, so my parents were a little bit the outliers. My dad's whole extended family, big Auburn fans, but he wanted to go to med school, and the pre-med program at Bama at the time that he was going was just better. So he landed on Bama for that reason and then met my mom there. My mom's family is kind of split, half Auburn, half Bama. Um, like half of her siblings went to Auburn, the other half Bama. So I just grew up around a lot of Auburn or Bama, but I think my growing up years, I had cousins that were a little bit older than me, headed to Auburn. So I just kind of and my parents were like, yeah, that's great. Both great schools, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 4:35

I know these cousins because they're my cousins. Exactly. So you get it. Yeah, yeah. And they're cool.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

So I, yeah, I took for I'm so thankful that Auburn not only had an interior design program, but a really good one. We were ranked number three at the time. Um because at the time of high school, being an Enneagram 7 social, my football school sorority experience absolutely would have trumped my future career. So if Auburn had not had an interior design program, I'd be like, yeah, just pick something else, no big deal. And then later, I think I would have been like, you know, I think that's what I want to do, but now I've got a teaching degree. I mean, no offense to but like I this isn't what I felt.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

So my mom, the whole reason I think that that conversation stuck out to her in the 10th grade is because I think she probably felt like it was probably legitimate. Like it tracked, I was always the kid that begged, I want to change my room. I want to, and my mom was like, We're not redoing your room, you know. So I they would let me just rearrange the furniture periodically.

SPEAKER_05 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

And then my sister always wanted to kill me because we would play, she was five years younger than me. So I'm in high school, she's still in the Barbies. She'd be like, Will you please play Barbies with me? So I would indulge, but I would literally sit there and tinker with like Barbie's dream house. And then anything in the playroom was like fair game. Like that bowl from the play kitchen, that is Barbie's hot tub. And these blocks from the Did she stop asking you to play with her? So her she wanted her Barbie to like do things with my Barbie and be like, we're going to a movie. And my Barbie would like lay off to the side while I was like elaborately building some like, you know, add-on addition. I mean, you know, so I think when I said that to my mom, they were like, she was like, Yeah, you probably do want to be an inter designer. And she remembers it because she was worried that I would never have a real job.

SPEAKER_08 6:25

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

So showed her.

SPEAKER_08 6:26

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

I do think to get to her credit, and like this is why you're on the show. Talk about my Bama mom who I'm just kidding. To her credit, before social media and Pinterest and all that, there was a lot less known about the interior design industry and business and what kind of jobs are there.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Um, there was so much less known about the fact that you can be an interior designer and go into the commercial field and work on big corporate projects and hospitality and hospital, like that was your your brain just thought architecture firm would build a stadium and that there would be no interior design element part of that. And then even in the residential world, which is really what I wanted to do, it just I think the knowledge was like just the designers that make it into like a big bad magazine.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Um and so the 1% hire those people, and then so either you're you're you magically get into one of those niche, like coveted, huge interior design residential firms where you're working with like the elite of the elite or there's no jobs, you know. And like there was and I also do think that was maybe a little bit more the case. The you know, uh a doctor's wife didn't necessarily hire a designer. I mean, hit or miss, some of them did, you know, but now like it's just I have clients that are normal people, and like, you know, it's so there's mid-range projects and there's high-end projects and there's really high-end projects, you know. But I I do think to my mom's credit, her being like, oh my god, what are what kind of job are you ever gonna have? Yeah, she didn't know anything about the corporate design field, and then she's just thinking, like, house beautiful, and like I'm not gonna discount my daughter, but is she gonna, you know, it's it's like if your kid was like, I want to be an NFL football player.

SPEAKER_09 8:13

You're like, Well, you're good at football, but yeah, but like the Birmingham area good. Yeah, and like I you don't want to like never say no.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

So you don't want to crush your kids' dreams, but you're also sitting here going, Are you definitely gonna be the next like Brad Pitt and the big million dollar movies or the next like NFL quarterback, or is okay, I'm here to sport, I guess, you know. So I told my mom I wanted to be an interior designer in the tenth grade, and then truly like went off to Auburn for that. My very first college class was a design studio class. I mean, just as the schedule played out, right? But that paints a picture of that. This major, there was no such thing as do your freshman year core classes, knock those out, then go into your major. And one of the few people who never changed my major and am still to this day, like doing truly what I got a degree in. So I think it was the right choice. Um graduated from Auburn in 2009.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

Great time for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

So not only was the economy bad, specifically like the housing market, which I'm like, I want to be a residential interior sider, and like no one can afford a house anymore. Um so that landed me in Nashville. You know, before Nashville was cool, it really was funny. Um, I I got a job at an architect firm doing commercial design or commercial interiors. So I was working on a lot of which firm? Um IDS, interior design services. So we did a lot of the furniture packages for architect firms like Earl Swanson Associates and stuff. So it was specul a lot of systems furniture, so cubicles. Right. Is it steel case? Conference rooms. What's that?

SPEAKER_09 10:00

Was it steel steel case? Steel case, yeah. You're saying all this with a sigh. Oh, it was like sucking in my soul drive. I know. I was so sorry. It's fine. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

It's just not for everybody. And like my dreams were like wallpaper and paint colors.

SPEAKER_09 10:16

We were in 10th grade, we looked at our parents and said, we're gonna sell furniture. Well, you have to cubicles, we're gonna sell furniture.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

I will say there's so much more to it, especially reconfigures. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_09 10:26

I it it's like the biggest um This is where like half the half the listening audience just turned off. I know. Oh, reconfigures click.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yes, exactly. But that's how that's how it made me feel. Right. So I get it. I can get it.

SPEAKER_07 10:39

She turned off then too, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Um but I loved Nashville.

SPEAKER_06 10:42

And so even though it wasn't cool yet.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Yeah, even it was cool.

SPEAKER_06 10:46

It was I grew up in Nashville, and so it and but even when you were there, it was still it was a lot bigger than when I was there.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

I loved it because it was it had it felt like a bigger Birmingham. So it was easy to meet people, easy to get around, easy to plug in, find community, find friends. But then we had NFL, like an NFL team and a pro hockey team, and concerts, galore, and you know, like it was just like still a really cool city, but it was like just a little bit more approachable at that point. And I still love Nashville. I go up there all the time.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

Yeah, great city, just not as good to get away. A lot more bachelorette parties. Yeah, a lot more bachelorette parties. Couple.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Um, so eventually I pivoted and went to work for a residential design firm, and that was really my sweet spot.

SPEAKER_09 11:29

Was that the goal?

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yes, and so that's where I learned to do what I do now was doing really working on homes, high-end homes. It was really fun because being in Nashville, I had a lot of celebrities that we were working for. So I'm like 25 years old, and I'm Little Big Town. The um two of the members from Little Big Town were my like my uh clients, and Ronnie Dunn was one of my clients. And I just remember like being like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we um decorated Reba's house for Christmas one year. So she wasn't like we didn't overhaul and do everything, but you know, I'm sitting there like setting up an artificial Christmas tree in Reba's living room, like, yeah, this is crazy. I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_09 12:06

Did you get a chance to meet Reba? I didn't meet Reba. It's like my wife's idol.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

I met most of the others because we did more ongoing projects for their home that you know you're really seeing it through over the course of months and months. Reba, we kind of just like came in while she was out of town and did Christmas magic. Yeah. And then we're like, okay, we we're the we were your elves. Yeah, yeah. We you know, we showed up and we're Christmas elves and then we left. Um but yeah, so Nashville was awesome and totally I think the architecture firm experience definitely like was sort of boot camp for it taught me a lot of understanding how like scheduling a big install, understanding how tracking shipment, you know, because it's not enough to just design a pretty room. You have to understand like where all the different parts and pieces are shipping from, track those things, get them to a receiver, schedule your big delivery. I mean, and we do that still, you know, in the residential field, just on a smaller scale than a whole big office building hospital.

SPEAKER_06 13:02

Cubicles.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

But yeah, cubicles. Um but you know, I learned all of that, and that's certain it was like I learned the nitty-gritty. So then when I went to go work for a residential firm, I could do some of the more fun creative pieces that I was wanting to get in involved with and stuff, and then started my business up there. Okay. Um what year was that? In 2015, I started my business.

SPEAKER_09 13:27

Six years out of school, you're like, um I'm on my own. I'm on my own.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Yeah, it was crazy. Um nanny'd part-time, did like a million different odd jobs. I mean, it was a hustle, but I think the hustle I've looked back, it was really good for me because even once my business financially, I was doing enough client work that I could absolutely support just me. I mean, I just single girl with a dog and a little apartment. Like I my expenses were not huge. And I was working out of my apartment, so there was very little overhead. But even one, well, one, I love, love, loved the nanny family that I worked for. So I like had a blast doing that.

SPEAKER_06 14:02

Is this another famous person? I'm just gonna. No.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Uh one is a real estate agent up in Nashville, and the other one actually works is pretty high up at um one of the record labels. So she has a cool job. I remember like working when I was their nanny, and like she is a she votes in the country music category for the Grammys. So like the Grammy ballad would come and I'd be like, oh, I want to open this. I'm like, snoop. Sneak steaming it over. Um but yeah, I think like the having a you know 30-hour a week part-time job left very few hours for me to really do my design stuff. And so it really like the hours that I was able to spend on design, I was like locked in, focused, um, really being wise with my time. So even though I probably after the first year could have like quit the nanny job and just done into your design, it would have been it, it kind of would have been like I can financially support myself, but I really only got like say 25 hours a week worth of client work to do. Right. So I could have like beboped around town and had fun with all the rest of my friends who are freelancing and free to hang out on a Tuesday in Nashville. But I think it would have just sort of been too much like idle time and I wouldn't have been as like focused, locked in, you know, like um, so I think that it all happened the way it did, and I had a lot of fun doing the nanny gigs. So the hustle helped really hone in and make me like craft my craft, you know, and be like smart about it, manage my time wisely, really be like locked in focused, like hitting the ground, running, you know, and help me like build and scale.

SPEAKER_06 15:40

How was the how was the the leap or what was the decision to make the leap? Because I that's a huge you've got a paying job with a firm, yeah. Go out on your own and take care of it.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

My parents, like Oh, Bama, Mama, Ken.

SPEAKER_09 15:52

I know.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

My well, my now my parents were so supportive and awesome. And it wasn't like daddy. You said this in 10th grade, so now it's like I know, but they were both like, we think you can do this, and I loved the job that I was at. Um and I loved what I was doing, and I my co-workers, my boss, and all of that, like I wasn't unhappy at all. It was more just kind of like felt like I wanted to do my own thing, and that wasn't ever gonna happen. Right you know, working for somebody else.

SPEAKER_06 16:20

Or it would, but it would take another 15, 20 years or something.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yeah, and so I'll be honest. So I went through a divorce um that was pretty devastating on my end. Um he did me wrong, and so I was I think that that was the Obama fan too. Georgia. Georgia. Oh, the worst. And I'm I'm really hitting all the SEC schools.

SPEAKER_09 16:41

This is where I'm gonna just mute myself because I will go off on Georgia.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

But I think that going through something that like epically hard at 27 years old. I mean, I all of my friends like were kind of like, I don't know what we'd do with you right now because like you're so heartbroken and we're just still like dating and trying to meet people, you know. Um, but I'm also thankful that I came out of that, you know, no no kids with him. And then also I had an army of friends who were still just I found myself back in their current shoes. So we had I had plenty of people to be like, come on, you're getting out of the house, we're going that's great, that's good we're going to dinner, you know, or something. But I think once I kind of came up for air from that, it made me look in the mirror and be sort of like, well, so I thought like family was kind of next. Like at 27, you know, in the next couple years we'll start a family. And now all of that was sort of like let's start over from scratch.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

And so it was really kind of having that conversation with myself of like what so what now? What's next? What now? And my parents are in the corner going, you can do this.

SPEAKER_06 17:43

Yeah. I thought I was on this path, but now things have changed now it's time to do that.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Well, you have the talent, you can do it. I mean, it's not gonna be easy, but also right now, like what is it? What risk is there? You're not supporting your family. You just got you and your dog. And you know, my dad didn't just bankroll it, but he was like, Look, it I will help you with rent if it comes to that. I don't think it will. Yeah, but like I'm not just gonna let you, like, I want you to chase this dream. And if if I need to like pay a power bill once in a while, like you can do this, you know? And so it was really just kind of that hard like look in the mirror, asking myself, like, so what what's next? What do I want? And I also think the divorce had kind of it's like my worst nightmare had come for me and I lived to tell about it. So there was certainly a an element of it moved the needle for like what what is the end of the world? What do I feel like would be the end of the world? And I and it just trying and possibly failing at starting my own business was just not something that felt like it would be the end of the world.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

It was like, well, you know, I'll uh give it my best shot.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

I hope it doesn't fail. That'll be really hard to swallow. But if it does, I'll just get another job.

SPEAKER_06 18:51

I mean, this is something that I try to have conversations with my kids. They're still young-ish, but um is that the best time to try and fail at something is when you're young. Because you know you don't have all these things. So like go out there, be curious, create things, try things if you've fall fat on your face.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

I had enough experience by this point. I'd been, yeah, six, six and a half years in the design field, but with experience in exactly what I wanted to do, residential design, but also some corporate experience. So I wasn't like a totally inexperienced fresh out of college spirit chicken. I'd been through personally something really hard that just made my skin a lot thicker. And it made me be like, if this fails, whatever, I'll regroup, you know. And so I had more confidence, ironically, from getting my heart broken, you know. Um, and because also you have to have thick skin if you're gonna be, especially a young female starting a business. I can't tell you how many, you know, 45-year-old like male contractors, you know, we're having this argument about like, I drew it like this, you need to build it like that. Well, little lady, I'm uh uh uh.

SPEAKER_06 20:01

You know, and I'm going this I'm and then right at the end they said go dogs.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

But I'm going, I know this can be done. We haven't the same client. You know, we have the same client. My client wants what I drew too. So if you don't do it that way, they're going to make you redo it, and you will have to listen to them. And you know, like I'm not trying to throw you under the bus, man, but like you come on, we gotta we can work together, right? And so you kind of had to like have those moments of being able to stick up for yourself when you're 27 years old and you're the authority in the room. Like that doesn't feel right. But at the same time, you know, and I didn't come in hot like that, but you know, kind of this Do you come in hot now? Uh if I have to, yeah. So don't uh don't tell me that something that I and I'm absolutely love. The best projects are the ones that are collaborative, where you collaborate with the architect, collaborate with the builder, because these guys absolutely I speak builder, I speak electrician, I speak plumber, but I that is not my craft. And so I want that expertise and that knowledge that these other trades have to offer.

SPEAKER_06 21:05

And you probably have relationships now with a lot of those that are. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

I mean, I I absolutely have builders, architects, electricians, uh trim guys, craftsmen that if I am able to say, hey, I've got a guy, I would love to bring my people in because of that working relationship and the you know, we listen to each other, you know, and those are always the best projects.

SPEAKER_09 21:26

So how long once you once you made the once you took the jump and you've got your own company and you're also nannying, at what point do you drop off nannying and go like the kids went to kindergarten.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Kind of no. She got fired, Mark.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

She lost it.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

No, they um I they were very surprised.

SPEAKER_08 21:47

They were like, okay, we want to we love you, but you have got to go. It's the time for you to leave the nest.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

They were trying to work it out, work out what they needed because obviously their you know their work day goes till 5 or 6, and kids get out of school at 2:30. So they were fully, you know, all right, we're gonna work this out to keep you every afternoon. And um but A, I was ready to move to Birmingham by then, which the decision there was to just be closer to family. Cause again, as I was starting my business, I loved Nashville. It was really I don't think personally I was quite ready to leave Nashville. I was still loving it, but I also was like looking at the grand scheme of the future. And you know, the longer I if I my business is two years old by this point, and I it's just me. I'm a one-woman show. I've started this thing from the ground up in Nashville, so surely I can do that in Birmingham, especially if I've got projects to float me in Nashville. It's three hours down the road, and that's exactly what I did. Scooted back and forth. Like, as I needed to be on site, pop back up to Nashville, see my friends, hang out, job site visit, then back to Birmingham and try to like get traction and you know, get my name out there. And um, so that was a hustle too. But I just kind of was looking at the future and realizing that at some point my business is going to keep me in Nashville because there's going to be more there's just gonna be bigger routes to the business and employees that I wouldn't want to fire if I was moving, and you know, and so it's kind of this is Nashville where I want to be forever, ever? Or do I want to be closer to family for the long run and family one?

SPEAKER_06 23:18

So yeah, it's as it should, as it should.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Yeah, so I don't regret that choice at all, but it was like the kids were going to kindergarten, so I was gonna be doing just afternoons anyway. By that point, financially, I was able to support myself and didn't need the part-time job, even though I was still like loving it. Um, and ready to move to Birmingham to be closer to family. So it was just kind of the right timing.

SPEAKER_09 23:42

Nice. How was it getting your feet on the ground in Birmingham with your business? Like once you start getting Birmingham clients. Like what's that process look like?

SPEAKER_03 23:50

It felt very like kind of similarly organic to Nashville, which now I can't really recall. It's just sort of word of mouth, and you just like letting yourself be known that you are a designer and you can do this, and then thankfully you have to have some people who are willing to give you a shot. And also, like my prices were way lower then because you're like this per that's the tricky thing about interior design specifically, and there's lots of businesses this way that require somebody to really take a chance on you. But so even if my hourly rate is lower, um this I can't do my craft if you're not willing to spend 50 grand of your money with me. And you don't I and especially when I went out on my own from the previous design. By by the time I was working in Birmingham, I had my own work to show on my Instagram and my website. But when I first went out on my own, it's like, I mean, gosh, I've worked on huge homes for like professional athletes, celebrity. Like, if Ronnie Dunn will let me do his house, like surely you are good with that, right? Like, I know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_09 24:54

You're nobody. Yeah. But uh You're no Brooks.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

But I can't put that on a website.

SPEAKER_09 25:00

It's not my You put it on a podcast though.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

That's right. It's out there now. Um, you know, so at my Instagram was, I mean, I was just having to get creative with like what to show. And then a lot of it was like friends, you know, which all my friends were also in their 20s and didn't have any money, but I was like, oh, can I do your nursery? Can I, you know, can I do like you move, you know, you moved into your first like tournament. But there was a lot sweet, but there was a lot of like piecing stuff together that wasn't, you know, wasn't that price point. But like a friend would let me help with the rug and their draperies, and then I'd still have a little something to show. And so Birmingham was a little easier because I had more bona fide work by that point to show that was mine that I could own that I could put out into the world and not feel like I was sort of doing anyone dirty, you know. Um, but it was, I mean, again, I babysat a lot, so no full-time nannying. But that was the thing about nannying, is it put me in the world of my clients. You know who's at the park with other kids on a Tuesday? Stay-at-home moms, you know who hires designers, stay-at-home moms, you know, or just moms in general. And so, you know, do you still nanny some?

SPEAKER_08 26:13

Not anymore. Just got two employees and a dog.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

And a nanny gig on the side. A lot of the families that I started babysitting. So that at this point I'm in my 30s and I'm babysitting, but it got me in the world of moms. Right. And those, you know, those women were either became my clients or their neighbor was my client. Or, you know, so I don't know. Advice to any of the girls, maybe don't come fresh out of college and be like, I'm gonna get a babysitting job and become an interesting, like, get some experience. Yeah, yeah. Get some experience, but then when you're ready to go out on your own, like think about who is your clientele and where they, you know, like being a babysitter or a nanny put me in their home and in their family. And so then even like my nanny mom got me a lot of jobs like up in Nashville because I actually did a lot of work at their house, but then she got to know me and knew knew my talent and could confidently pass me on to her neighbor or her friend or her coworker. Whereas if I was just her waitress, you'd never get that far. Right. You know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like even if they asked, so what are you doing?

SPEAKER_09 27:16

The call has to come from in the house.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 27:20

So so tell us about your your company now. Where where are you now and what kind of projects you have?

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Oh, we have a studio in downtown Homewood, right next to Cookie Fix, and now that um new shoes.

SPEAKER_09 27:31

New shoes. We went we needed new shoes the other day.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Oh my goodness, it's popping off.

SPEAKER_09 27:34

Like where you gotta like wait in line for uh, you know, 10 minutes like 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

I know we're in the we're in the studio and I just see um what's hilarious, so I see ice cream walk past the door all day and then uh celebrate uh that business that will do, you know, event and party planning, and they make all these crazy elaborate balloon concoctions. So not just think balloon arches, but they will make an airplane out of balloons or for big sp or um for new shoes, they did a big ice cream cone. So it's so funny we see all the balloon concoctions walk out because they're they're right across the street from us. Um but we do primarily uh like residential design, upscale residential design, um, new construction renovations, as well as just like furnishings jobs. I mean, honestly, the the the jobs that are primarily just furnishings, I love. I I really enjoy those. And if I think mostly because a lot of the work that I do ends up having a heavy renovation or a new construction element before you get to, you know, you gotta build the house before you can put drapes in the room. Um that sometimes those write that down. Don't do the drapes first. You'll they will get dirty, very dirty very fast. Um, but the furniture package jobs are just really fun to pepper in there because then, you know, sometimes the construction pieces at times you're you're walking the house doing an electrical walkthrough. You're not too the creative, cool, interesting stuff yet. I mean, a lot of that can be interesting if you're doing some sort of really cool lighting somewhere, you know, you gotta make it work.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Um, so yeah, like kind of we run the spectrum of that, like from new construction, renovation, all the way to just just furnishing fantastic.

SPEAKER_09 29:19

How long have you had your brick and mortar in Homeland?

SPEAKER_03 29:21

We moved into that space in 2020, which is I think the only reason I got it. Because it had been it had been some sort of like kids' boutique, Birmingham Bubbles or something like that. And I think Birmingham Bubbles, I don't think they got hit by COVID. I think they just the the owners moved on, but then a nail salon tried to go in there right before COVID hit, and then that was just really bad for a business like that. So it had just been sitting empty, even at such a great location. Yeah, and I was man, there have been like a few milestones. I remember hiring my first employee felt like like I think I did the math about you know what I could pay an employee, and then also like if I'm billing hours, they're also billing hours. You know, we're dividing and kind of like they're kind of an employee is sort of earning their keep. I mean, it's not just an expense.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Um, but I mean it was like I ran the numbers and the numbers made sense, and then I would lay awake at night and like rerun the numbers in my head and like re-talk myself into it, even though now I've got a girl starting in two weeks.

SPEAKER_09 30:19

I'm like, your third that's gonna start. Uh you have two employees.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

I have two employees right now. So this was like the original employee, and she's moved on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 30:27

You have three people total under you after you hire this new person.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Um well, no, I just hired somebody, and there is just three of us.

SPEAKER_09 30:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Um, the girl I was talking about, who's my my very first employee, she's not with me anymore. She just had a baby and decided to stay home. Um, but I remember signing my lease on the brick and mortar space.

SPEAKER_09 30:45

You so you went from your apartment, right? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

My first employee worked at my coffee table. So it was like, this isn't sustainable, and I don't know that we can scale this way. So I don't even have a chair for you.

SPEAKER_07 30:57

You've got to sit on the floor on the coffee table.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

My little 800 square foot like girl pad apartment, you know. Um but yeah, so we I moved into the space just knowing that as I scaled, we would need and then also like there's so much stuff that comes with interior design. Like the fabric and sample library. You have to have that stuff. And so when it was, that was what my guest room was. And there was a bed in there. So if my mom came to visit, she could sleep in there, but she could not put clothes in the closet. The closet was head-to-toe, paint decks and fabric samples, and like finished samples and you know, bolts of fabric were in the corner. You know, I ship big things to my receiver, but stuff like fabric has to come to me so we can ticket it and get it to the workroom. And and then when pillows are finished, you know, they come back to me before I deliver them to the client. And so it was just like living in my apartment with like pillows and fabric rolls in the corner. And you know, mom comes to visit, and I'm like, well, just tiptoe around it all, and you can get to the bed.

SPEAKER_09 31:55

Don't touch anything.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

I know.

SPEAKER_09 31:57

This is what you wanted, mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what you wanted. Was it a big leap going from you know your apartment to brick and mortar just from a business owner standpoint? And the reason I ask is because we've had several business owners on the show, from Ivy Schuster to Ainsley Dreer. I feel like I'm gonna leave out a couple people, but people who are also independent interior designers that do everything from commercial to healthcare, you're doing residential, but you still you gotta keep the lights on, you gotta pay for water, right? The Wi-Fi goes out, you own the company, you've got to deal with it. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:29

The printer's not working. Okay, who's gonna fix the print? How do we fix it?

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Oh my gosh, the our printer is the pain of my existence. Yeah, yeah. That's why I bring it to the city. That's the I do my research, Mark. My junior designer, I call her my head of tech, because the other day. Yeah, I was like, oh, this freaking printer again. Um, and she fixed it. And I was like, honestly, that thank goodness for you. Because I we would still be sitting here. Um yeah, I mean, it felt like again, I feel like I was running the numbers in my head, you know, like here's what the rent would be, and then here's what the utilities would be, and da-da-da, and you know, and knowing that the business was bringing in enough that I can cover that. But then also it just feels like a big commitment. And a lot of these leases are my first lease was a five, I mean, I think we do two to three year leases at a time now, but the first one was like five years out of the gate. So then you're like, dang, if I break this, I'm still on the hook.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

And uh so it was very scary, but also the work was there, and it's just sort of trusting that the work will still be there.

SPEAKER_06 33:28

And I can't have trusting in yourself.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

I can't have an employee work from my coffee table forever, and I can't live amongst the fabrics the way I am forever. And there's I I can only scale so much if I'm still confined to this little condo because I just I can't hire, I can't really have more a better finished library. I can't really meet with clients. That became I was always meeting with clients at their house, which was fine, but then I'm schlepping everything to their house, which is again fine. But then not in August.

SPEAKER_06 34:00

Yeah, it's less fine in August.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Well, it was more like that design on the fly element, which you know, we always go into presentations very prepared, very thorough. I try to be a very good question asker and listener on the front end so that when we craft a design, we yes, the client has hired me for my aesthetic, my expertise, my resources, and I'm bringing all of that to the table. But I also try to be a very good listener and have listened to you tell me what do you want? What do you like, what do you not like? And it goes beyond aesthetics. Like maybe you hate yellow. Well, I'm not gonna put any yellow in your house, or you know, are you really like modern, or you love you're a maximalist, or but also what do you need? Do you have four kids and three dogs? And so everything needs to be either stained treated or a performance fabric to begin with, or do you love to host? Like I have clients that we recently did their house, and they are just kind of end up being the landing pad for their church group as well as their they have tons of family in town, and their house ends up being the Friday night dinner spot. And you know, she's like, even if we're ordering pizza, I'll have 25 people in this house, no, like out of nowhere. So we need lots of seating and lots of you know, lots of seating for dining specifically. So we have a very full-blown kitchen dining, you know, breakfast room, if you want to call it that, but it is more of like a true like family eaten kitchen than a big island and a proper dining room. And she's like, we will fill it up on a Friday. So being a good listener in that capacity, so that when we meet and present to clients, we're very prepared. But there's still always that moment where in the moment, in the, you know, the client gives some feedback that you're like, yeah, I hear you on that. And oh, you know what? Let me grab my paint deck. I think I know like the paint color that, you know, or I, you know, like a fabric or a finish or a light, you know, something will come back.

SPEAKER_06 35:55

If you got all those tools available, you can pull them versus if you're at their house that you have to do.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

So now we always do presentations at the office for that reason. Because if I'm at the house, I am confined to everything I brought for your presentation that we've been working on, as well as like a bag full of some alternate backup options, but I'm still just confined to that. You know, and um so it's a lot, it's a lot better to be able to meet with clients and also like construction projects. Like there's times that the house is under construction, but we're trying to talk about furniture because you know, we need to be doing furniture six months in advance if we're gonna furnish it.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

And then it's like, do you do that at the client's, I guess, existing kitchen table, or do you do that at the job site? I mean, you know, so having a studio condo, exactly my own condo.

SPEAKER_08 36:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

Meeting with reps, you know, just all everything, it just is a much better setup to have my own space. But it was definitely a ride of passage. I had to earn my way to that. I probably was a one-woman show for the first five years, then had an employee for a year and a half, and then we got our own space to make ours. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:02

People can't see, but there was a big smile that came across her face when she said her own space. Yeah. So you talked a little bit about your your aesthetic. What is your kind of design philosophy when you go?

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Um, I would say it's like kind of um elevated, fresh take on classic southern interiors. I'm from the South. I love southern design. Um so I do want to say like classic as opposed to traditional because I kind of like to mix, mix it up. Like I definitely love traditional elements like using antiques or doing, I mean, I I think that when you look at historic homes, a lot of historic homes, especially in the area that we're in, there's a reason that they're still beautiful. You know, there's a reason that they don't look like the year that they were built. You know, a modern home is so cool at the time, but I mean, there's the Frank Lloyd rights out there that, you know, really put a name on something, and that kind of stands the test of time. But, you know, there you we you can already drive around and like identify a 90s house or a 2010's house.

SPEAKER_06 38:09

You meant in the 70s, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

But historic homes can be a little ambiguous. You're like, is that home 100 years old or 50 years old? You know, and so I'd love to implement classic architectural elements, classic furnishings and design, but then like jazz it up with like let's color drench a room, something really moody. Let's put a love pattern and I love color. So I definitely I would not consider myself a maximalist because I know where to stop. But but I love color and I love pattern. And so even if there's some traditional classic elements in a room, let's also do some like funky um trim or let's do a really cool wallpaper, you know, down like the main hallway or in the powder bath or somewhere where it's like not gonna overwhelm you, but like get a lot of traffic, you know, because you don't want to put wallpaper in a room you never go in, you know. But the powder bath is gonna get used all day every day, you know?

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

You know, or let's like paint, why don't we this sitting room off the kitchen? Well, the kitchen is nice and bright and airy, so let's make that room really moody and vibey and you know, just kind of mixing sort of that modern, cool what's on trend with what is gonna make this house really timeless and classic.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

So that when the trend comes and goes, the house as a whole feels lived in and layered and classic and timeless.

SPEAKER_06 39:28

Yeah, layered was one of the things I I underlined in what you had written. I written underlined layered, and then there was a one line that I really liked. And it was I think that homes that really feel thoughtful and inviting are the ones where you can tell attention to detail was a priority in big and small ways.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Oh yeah. I think that's what makes a home that has been designed by a designer stand out. Um you know, I mean, I there there are some homeowners that really have a real gift for, you know, don't need a designer, but I do think that that's kind of what makes the difference. Right. One, like anything, I this is a muscle that I flex all the time. I'm constantly thinking about design and details, big and small, and um also I have the resources, so I see stuff that your average homeowner like it comes across my eyeballs, it comes across my desk. Um but like for example, and me and my husband bought a house, and so we have this one main thoroughfare hallway that I want to put wallpaper in, and so I am adding picture mold to like the top, and in lieu of crown, I'm adding picture mold up high so that from art chain I can hang artwork down that hallway from chain because I want to reserve the right to swap it up as time goes on. Right. But I don't want to put a bunch of nail holes in my wallpaper forever and ever.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

And so A, I think that picture mold um, because I'm painting the paneling down that hallway in an accent color. So the picture mold will also get that accent color. So A, it's just another detail. The chains, um, like it'll it'd be like really thin to the listener who doesn't know um art chain, you can Google that. But it'll be like a little S hook that will hang over the mold and then just chains that hang down that you will then affix your art to the set of like two chains that hang out.

SPEAKER_06 41:21

How they how they used to hang art.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Well, that's how they used to do it because everybody had plaster walls that you couldn't, you know, you'd like to.

SPEAKER_06 41:27

Old houses that in in in town, our house has the picture molding or going around.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Yeah, because you would if you try to nail a nail hole into a plaster wall, you run the risk of like chipping a gouge out of the wall. And so that's a classic element, but it's totally made a comeback. But for me, it's honestly just so that I can like reserve the right to collect art as time goes and swap what's in the hallway out or change up what's together and not put a million holes in my wall. So it's practical, but also it's like that is gonna be an added detail in that hallway. Yeah. There's gonna be paneling and wallpaper and this picture chain, you know, and um just like little things like that that can be architectural elements that are um subtle, you know, but if you think about them, it's those are the things that make the home really feel lived in and loved and thought about, you know, it's like little details big and small. Everybody thinks about the big things like if you paint your, you know, you color drench a room in a moody color. I love doing that, but that's a big impact, big statement. But then so is you know, really elegant brass hardware in your kitchen, you know, on your kitchen cabinets. Or, you know, what if you do um like you know, little petite sconces um on either side of your bed, in addition to lamps, but you have your little reading light next to your bed, you know, and like little extra details like that.

SPEAKER_06 42:55

And I think uh, you know, especially for our listeners and then also just the world that we live in, because I I'm not a designer, but you know, we we sell high design furniture. And so you look at something and initially the silhouette of it or the look of it, and you go, ooh, that's nice. But then you look at the details of it, and it that'll make or break whether or not you what you think about it. Because if you really look at the details, you're like, oh, you know, you can see all the fasteners or it's like those hardware. Yeah, yeah, there's little things, or you look at it and you go, Oh, that's nice. That detail's nice, and that detail's nice. And it changes your whole look of it. Um and so I loved that that because it is it that's what initially you get kind of an idea of a room or you get an idea of a product or whatever, but as you live in it and experience it and you start touching it and feeling it, that's when you start to notice those small things and it makes all the difference.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Yeah, my advice to any listener um would be obviously you have to start with the bones of your room. You know, I wouldn't hone in on like small, you know, uh extras until you have a coffee table and a sofa that works.

SPEAKER_09 43:54

You need the house before you have a child.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

You know, but then so but then layered if you learn anything.

SPEAKER_06 44:00

From this podcast. House house before House before the drapes.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

Don't do the drapes first. I know you want to, but it's really that's not the right plan about it.

SPEAKER_07 44:07

It's not the order.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

But so go ahead and get the bones for your room. Get the things you need, get the normal things that come to mind, you know, but then step back and think. For example, my sofa I've had for a while, and we have two dogs and they're laying all over them. So the sofa itself is in great shape. The seat cushions, it's like a two-cushion, and it's a tufted back sofa, so there's not any back cushions. This the body of the sofa in great shape. The cushions have just lived some life. So when we move into the new house, I'm just gonna have the cushions recovered, and I'm not gonna do them. And I'm not gonna call the vendor that I bought the sofa from and say, Hey, can you send me some more of that performance herringbone linen, you know, basic fabric, the body of the sofa? I'm gonna do like some sort of a stripe or something on the cushions so that now this Chesterfield tufted sofa is gonna have two cushions that are gonna have some personality on it. But you know, or one of my favorite things to do is like get a tassel, like a key tassel, just like a little four-inch tassel.

SPEAKER_06 45:08

I'm so into tassels.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Hang that on a doorknob, hang those on a cabinet knob, hang one, take the shade off your lamp, slip the tassel over the neck of your lamp, put the shade back on. Now you can.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

I put them on my children. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

When they go to school, it's like my kids don't have an apple tag, an apple air tag. They're tassels. My kid is the kid wearing the tassel. But that's that's a small, easy, like elevated thing. You know, just slip a tassel on a on a doorknob or something, and all of a sudden you've like elevated your space. So I would say start with the start with your room and then just serve Pinterest or you know, and just notice little details and be like, I could, you know, you don't have to change wallpaper or pillows or something. Like, what's you know, start a collection of matchbooks and get some really cool brass bowl to put them in and you know, things like little small things make a big difference too.

SPEAKER_09 46:01

Yeah. Do you think that because of your experience in your education though, that you're much better than that than the average person? I'm gonna assume the answer is yes. Like you can say that, like you can rattle, I can feel like you rattle that off as like an idea. But like, even though we just met, I feel like you're like, okay, matchbooks, cool brass bowl. I feel like that in your head though, you've got the room mapped out already.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

Oh, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 46:23

So yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Well, my husband and I were not moved into our new house yet, but when we bought it, um bought it, we're we're not doing any major renovations, but some updates, if you will. But man, I bet within three weeks I had the house dialed in. I had a presentation, I treated it like a design project. Right. Like I get it. So like the whole, you know, I had a PowerPoint, all these different design boards, the slides, and he was like, whoa. Um But it well, partly going back to that, it's a muscle I flex all the time. So anybody in any field, what is your craft? Like, if if you threw me into I love kids, but if you threw me into a kindergarten class, I'd be like, okay, ABC is today, guys, I guess.

SPEAKER_07 47:04

But what's a kindergarten? Yeah, remember again. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

I bail, I bail on those kindergartners. No, um but you know, but uh somebody who has been a school teacher for 15 years is like if they had to go sub a class, would be like, I got all kinds of tricks up my sleeve because it's a muscle they flex all the time. So I tell clients all like, give yourself some grace. I have resources that you truly do not have access to, like trade-only resources and also reps that come to me and say, hey, look at this new thing. Um and also it's a muscle I flex I'm doing all the time. So I can flip through Instagram or Pinterest or magazine and dog ear stuff because I will see something in a magazine, and my eye is noticing this small detail. And maybe I'm taking in the whole room, but also I might notice a small detail that your average magazine reader is just gonna fully, oh, that's oh, okay, pretty room. Keep on going.

SPEAKER_06 47:54

It looks, it looks, the picture looks nice, but they're missing all the details as to why it looks nice.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

So one of the things I tell a lot of interns that I have, so whenever we have a summer intern, um, I will tell them when you are trying to find or look for inspiration, and this goes for just an average homeowner too. When you're looking for inspiration, like let's say you pick up a magazine magazine and you're flipping through it, don't flip through it at lightning speed or scroll through Instagram at lightning speed. If if a room catches your eye in any way, even if it's like a oh god, you know, like because there's times that you see something, you're like, why did they paint this room neon green? What? Well, stop and look at if if somebody's doing something that bold, they're doing other cool stuff in the room. And look past that this threw you off because this room is like painted head to toe, like cherry red, and that's overwhelming to you. But if somebody's doing something like that, what else did they do in that room? How did they what's on that sofa? And because look past the thing, like whatever caught your attention, or it may be something really good that caught your attention. I love this space. Well study it. You know, stop and study it. Take in the room as a whole because it caught your eye to begin with, but then really look at the chair and what did they do on this chair? And like, did they do an accent welt bordering you know, the shape of the chair? Like is there a tassel? Is there a tassel? Is there a tassel? You know, yeah. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_09 49:15

Start. We have to see the trees in the forest, is basically what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Also, be a collector. Figure out maybe matchbooks aren't your thing, but what do you love? And like collect that and find a way to like put it around your matchbooks. Oh but I also love I do pottery as a hobby. And so when I'm out and about like traveling or just, you know, in an anti, if I see some really cool ceramic thing, I can't resist like a cool like little jar or small, you know. So I end up having collections of stuff like that. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 49:48

Does your husband have any say into what's gonna go like what's gonna ship in with the house? A little bit? Not much. Um kind of like you're kind of like maybe a little bit as you're like rubbing your forehead like he has a vision for his office, but then I am in the driver's seat to execute it.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

So kind of almost like he's a client. Um, he kind of wants a moody, moody office. He wants to go green with it, have like a vintage rug. It's like he has a vision for his office. And so, but he's then passed it on to me because he's like, I don't even know where to start pulling this off myself, and you do this. So but a lot of the other spaces, he's just like happy to let me have at it. And I just don't know that he's super precious. So I think he's like, our house is gonna look great, and we're gonna have super precious, we're gonna have like what we need, and it's gonna be fun to host, and you know, so I don't know that.

SPEAKER_09 50:37

We've known each other for an hour and a half. If I met your husband and he turned out to be super precious, I would be shocked. Well, I should have finished that sentence.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

He's not super precious about what he's not that's like some of these things are not the hill he's gonna die on, because he trust me. You know, so he's not like I have to have a leather recliner. All that we are getting a leather recliner, but because you will allow it.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

Well, when we moved in together, he had this really old, ugly, hideous, worn-out, lazy boy, like from Lord knows what this thing probably is as old as he is too.

SPEAKER_09 51:09

Straight out of Fraser.

SPEAKER_06 51:10

Yeah. And when we moved in, he But it probably fit his body perfectly.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

No, that's why he was like, it has my butt prints in it, you know. And so that came to live with us knowing that it would be temporary, but he was he moved in to my place, and so it was sort of this knowing that we were gonna buy a house, it was sort of it doesn't make sense for us to really join half of everything, and like we're not gonna be in my condo for very long, because like searching for a house, buying house is next on the to-do list. So we put a lot of his stuff in storage, and then he just kind of moved in with me and my stuff for the time being. But he brought the recliner because he's like, I need to have something that's mine. Um, but I told him I was like, when we buy a house, I will get you a recliner. It cannot be this recliner. And he was like, I know, I'm aware.

SPEAKER_06 51:55

Oh, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_08 51:56

Communication. That's important.

SPEAKER_06 51:57

So we are uh 52 minutes in, it's flown by. We could go another hour. We could easily go another hour. Yeah, um, but we're gonna we're gonna transition. Unless is there anything else you want to cover before we get to a rapid fire question? I don't think so. So I do have one question.

SPEAKER_09 52:09

Okay, and it may or may not add much more time. We'll see. Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?

SPEAKER_06 52:15

Yeah, that was on my list because there were a couple that you mentioned and uh I wanted to ask the question, but we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

I think the projects that stand out to me are projects where the clients are very fun and like easy to get along with, but also very trusting. Because again, I my goal is to make your home feel like you, but we have done it and like brought in our resources, expertise, knowledge, talent, you know. Um, but then like those clients that trust me to do that, to make their home feel like them, but do it well. But a recent project that we did, it's for a couple in Homewood. They are just like salt of the earth, amazing, wonderful people, fun, fun, fun to work with. The wife is an artist, so she's down to like do cool, interesting stuff. And the husband has a day job, but he is also extremely artistic. He um is like head of the orchid society, he has a greenhouse in the backyard. He decided, so one of my assignments was their front formal living room. It's one of those older homes that has like a family room, but also a formal living room. And he so the his wife gave him permission to make that his music room. So I meet them and I'm coming in to do the house, and he's like, I need to get a baby grand piano in here. And I got a bunch of guitars, and so I'm like, awesome, cool, we're gonna do this. And so I find out, I'm thinking this guy has like been a musician his whole life, and he's played the guitar for years. Um, so I, you know, he's like, I don't, I have a keyboard, but I'm getting a baby grand. And so as we we get to know each other and we're doing this music room, it turns out I'm like, oh, he started taking at like in his he's got a child in college. We'll just leave it at that. I'm not gonna guess at his age. Um a child finishing college, you know. And um, so he just started learning to play the piano like a year ago. And I'm like, dude, that is so cool! Like, yes. So we made this really moody, cool, vibey. You know, he was like, I love just I have friends that come over. He's like, we're not in a band, but my friends come over and we jam, I'll play the piano, and they'll play guitar.

SPEAKER_05 54:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

And we drink whiskey. And you know, so this room needed to be creative and artistic and moody and masculine, because it's him and his buddies in there, and you know, but then we did really cool wallpaper inside in like the breakfast room, and then we redid their kitchen, and everything about the kitchen was they're like, I don't, it's stuff about I want to like do something. I want to, I don't want to do a white kitchen. I want to do interesting, cool stuff. So the cabinets, the upper cabinets are stained, the lowers are this like deep green. The marble, I've never seen marble like this before. I don't even know what the name of the marble is. It was very exotic marble, uh, lots of brass accents. So just like throughout the house, every single space in the house was like, what can we do cool with this space? As opposed to just like, but then the house at the same time, I think because every room is somewhat eclipse, there is a common thread. You don't walk through the house and be like, well, this is the like when you're in a air, like a bed and breakfast, and like this is the cat room, and this is the beach room, and they all have a theme. It's not like that. It's yeah, it's very much like okay, every single one of these rooms has an identity, but there is a common identity throughout this house, and it absolutely reflects these cool clients who are artsy and into music and art and painting and travel and you know, so it was they are wonderful fun people and dear friends of mine now, but also just the house was so fun to do. That's cool. Sounds like it. Yeah, and it was a challenge because I couldn't just do what was normal and safe anywhere. Right. Like every single room was like, okay, where what are we crafting here from this crash?

SPEAKER_06 55:48

You know, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:50

I love it. All right. All right, rapid fire. Yeah. Do you want to start?

SPEAKER_09 55:54

Yeah. All right. So you said in here in your uh questionnaire, you said, uh, whenever create a block, I will turn on fun musing and crack a beer in my studio.

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Caught.

SPEAKER_09 56:04

Caught. Yeah. Caught. Yeah, that's what happens when you put when you write things down, we'll use it. Uh do you have a favorite beer?

SPEAKER_03 56:10

Uh I love an IPA. So A-O-K IPA out of Avondale, one of my favorites. Good people.

SPEAKER_04 56:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

But yeah, I'll just usually only get halfway through the beer, but still it got the vibe going. You know, you gotta have a good creative, creative, fun vibe.

SPEAKER_06 56:25

We'll be at good people later today. Same for the soccer. Yeah, we'll see. Well, I'll see you there. Yes. The party's just gonna roll. Yep. Exactly. Nice. All right. If you could design the home for a fictional character, this is one of Mark's questions. Uh, who would it be and why?

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Oh man, I don't know. Um I think it would be really fun to do something that was sort of period-esque. So, I mean, maybe this is gonna sound stuffy, but like um oh, I'm forgetting the name of the main character from Pride and Prejudice, but something like a Pride and Prejudice. Wait, no, the Kira Knightley character. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 57:06

Um I think that would be cool because it was it's like it would there be a way that I think my wife's gonna be listening to this episode and she's gonna be saying the name out loud right now. I know. It's not just realistic.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

It's not Jane, I don't think. I think that's one of the sisters' names. Anyway, the Kira Knightley character from Pride and Prejudice, because I think I could make give it that historical feel, but like, is there a challenge way I could do 2026 cool modern version of that? Okay, you know?

SPEAKER_09 57:32

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 57:34

What's your go-to gas station snack combo?

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Oh, I love this question. Reese's pieces. I do if if they don't have them, or sometimes I've been in a gas station where they only have the humongous family size. I'm like, my husband's allergic to peanut butter, so I can't share with him. That's part of the strategy.

SPEAKER_08 57:53

Yeah. But only the family size.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

I will default to like uh peanut butter MMs, but I love I think I don't know, I think Reese's Pizza.

SPEAKER_06 58:01

Reese's pieces are your deal. Okay. And then like So U and E T.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Uh-huh. And then I'll do a Diet Coke with a splash of the cherry coke in there. I don't want to go full cherry coke, it's too much.

SPEAKER_09 58:10

So you're getting uh fountain drink then. I like a fountain coke.

SPEAKER_06 58:12

Fountain drink, but just with a splash of cherry.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Fountain Diet Coke, but then maybe do like a quarter of it as cherry coke.

SPEAKER_09 58:20

Okay. I have a friend that she will go, she actually works here. Um, and we'll go to like back 40 and she'll buy a drink, like a fountain drink. From back 40. From back 40, and then she'll get water and then just put a splash of sprite in it. And I was like, they don't care.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

A splash of sprite in the water?

SPEAKER_09 58:38

Don't buy the drink. Weird. Just go get a water. Yeah, and put a splash of sprite. They're not gonna care. Yeah, no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

Yeah, all you want is like two pumps at the Yeah, but she's like feels bad.

SPEAKER_06 58:49

Well, she feels bad. Somebody's gonna come running over. Hey!

SPEAKER_09 58:52

Yeah, hey, you did not pay for that.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

This girl does not sound like a rule breaker. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 58:58

She's really not. Actually, we were talking to her when you walked in the door because we were all sitting out flat. And uh, she's one of our owners. It's Valerie Allen. Hey Valerie. Hey, Valerie, and uh, and we were joking about how we did not know you before. Like this was gonna be the intro, right? If you're walking in the door. And so when you were walking down the sidewalk, she was like, Oh, there she is. I'm nervous. And we were chatting, like, nervous. Nervous, right?

SPEAKER_06 59:20

I'm nervous for you guys. Yeah, is what she said. And I thought, oh well, thanks.

SPEAKER_09 59:23

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Oh, she's heard about my reputation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 59:26

Well, the other person that we were sitting with knew who you were.

SPEAKER_06 59:29

Oh, okay. Yeah. Through the industry. Yeah. And then she jumped up and ran away. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, great, cool. Yeah, so yeah, we were like, who is this person we're meeting with? My cousin. Um what is the best trip vacation you've ever been on?

SPEAKER_03 59:43

Oh, so I am so spoiled. Around the time I was starting my inter design business, my best friend decided to start a travel blog. She has now segued into a full-blown, like, she is a very luxury travel planner. Lee has a whole business of her own in the travel industry. So I was her guinea pig for a million different you know, back when I'm starting my business, nannying to keep the lights on, had like two pennies to my name. I would rub two pennies together and figure out how to get to Europe and Bebop somewhere with her. And we have so many stories of like there was one story when we were in Stockholm where we had our luggage and we schlepped our luggage onto the public bus to get to the airport because it was like five euro, but like splitting an Uber was gonna be like 40 euro, so 20 a piece. Yeah. And we're like, ah, we can take the bus. And like now, of course, we've elevated that experience. Um, but she invited me on a safari a couple years ago. And it was, I saw a quote on Instagram. This is when I was still single. I saw a card on Instagram that was like, single friends be like, hey, you want to go to Africa on Friday? Like, yeah, I mean, and that's how it went. That so she had this opportunity. Um, we're like the the Safari Lodge, you know, they will, when they have open space, invite travel industry people to, you know, because, hey, if I host you, I want you to send your clients here. Um, at like a discounted rate, not just totally comped. And so it she and I have been talking about when, you know, let's get a trip on the books this spring, da-da-da. And then out of nowhere, she was like, okay, this is like short notice. And what do you do Tuesday? And it, you know, yeah, like, but could in like three weeks, could you meet me in South Africa? And um, and then you know, we'll only be there for a week and we'll do Cape Town and Safari and go out to the winelands and then fly all the way back. And I was just like, Yeah, absolutely. Like, what day do I need to land? You know, and so it was an incredible experience. I'm dying to go back on safari. It I mean, it I had high expectations and it blew my mind, you know. And um, so I I'm already planning to go back, do another trip, but it really was like, meet me in Africa in three ways. I was like, I'm I'm already on Delta's website, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:48

The two of you could talk maybe later.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:50

We'll talk after. We'll talk with people when everybody screams for the US. Yeah, my wife and I went to Kenya for two weeks on our husband. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

That, yes. It was that's I've already my husband, he is well aware that it's not will we go in a Safari about like winter we and I'm turning 40 next year, and so I have been saying that like my 40th birthday, I'm trying to recruit my parents, my sister. I my my dream is to like Mark and Aaron. Yes, my dream is to fill a truck, you know, like the cars. The cars, the trucks that they take you out in can seat about eight passengers. So I want to be like, I want to have just like a little crew of us so we can all go on our game drives together.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:30

Nice. Oh man. Oh yeah, well, I've got three great recommendations because my wife did a lot of research before we left. So anyway, all right, so we'll talk about it gonna be a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

Cool.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:39

Um if you had to give a TED talk tomorrow, what is it about?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

Ooh gosh, that's a tough question. Um this is gonna sound backwards to just give this at Ted, but I think I think we need less tech in homes, and this isn't me being like, you know, no iPads for kids, but I feel like so often, especially some of the really, really high-end homes that I've done that are like smart house, you know, like where you know it's everything is wired to death, and you know, it just seems inevitable sometimes that those tend to be the things that they're great when they work. As soon as they don't work, now you like can't turn the lights on. Or the I think the thing that my clients that have done this run into a lot is guests, you know, will come over and not know how this elaborate like, you know, and so then they're like hitting all these kind of buttons. So then the guests leave and it's all out of whack because you the guests kind of reprogrammed it. Um or so honestly, there's things like especially in kitchens. Um I do I am an advocate and fan of if your thing is like espresso coffee, there are some really incredible like built-in to the built-in espresso coffee makers that are excellent. Um, but I just kind of think like if you if you had the luxury of a walk-in pantry or especially like a scullery or back kitchen, put a lot of those appliances back there. One thing that I think a lot of clients like they love a good like built-in microwave. And I'm like, it's just you can't panel front them. So it's gonna you're gonna panel front your fridge and your your dishwasher and then have this stainless steel microwave. Well, so you know what people do? Well help we'll put it in the lower cabinets or like in the island.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:25

Yeah, so it's not as visible because it's gotta well, if you have toddlers or ever think there will be a toddler in your house or plan on being a grandparent one day to a toddler, uh buttons are fun for kids. And if you think that that toddler is not gonna set that microwave, probably with a Hot Wheels toy in it to 39 minutes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:45

Yeah, I've seen those pictures before. And I've just been like, that's never gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

And burn your house to the ground. I mean, so I just kind of sometimes I'm an advocate for again, like I'm not totally opposed to hardwired like stereo systems and stuff in, but sometimes I think like let's work.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:02

This talk could save lives.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:03

I was gonna say what's funny is that so two things. One literally read an essay yesterday against the smart home. Uh but the second is that was where we started, was kind of like not anti-smart home, but a little bit, but then also fire safety is very important. Well, I had a client eight minutes. How long do you have in a TED talk? Eight minutes, ten minutes?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:23

I had a client whose kid basically started to melt a Barbie in the microwave. So then also I don't think that that child knew that her Barbie was going to melt. So now you have a heartbroken child.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:34

Now the child needs to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

A heartbroken child of melted like this plastic is like ruined the tray in your microwave. But that same client had an older son who kind of he was old enough he probably wouldn't have done this, but was big into hot wheels and stuff. And so she was like, Oh my gosh, like if my daughter had gotten a hold of one of his Hot Wheels and put it in there, I was like, Your microwave would have been on fire.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:56

And I just want to say, let's hope that she wasn't trying to melt the barbecue. Yeah. It's like Sid from Toy Story. Exactly. Yeah. All right. Um what is a hobby that you haven't started but would like to?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Oh. Um, well, I grew up gardening with my dad. Um, but I in Nashville I lived I lived in a house, but it was like a little duplex. So I didn't own it. It was a rental. And so I didn't, I mean, I had like a little herb pot of, you know, rosemary on my back deck. But um, and then I live in a condo now. So we are moving into a new house and I fully plan to get into gardening. My my husband is joking that I'm gonna become a full-blown like homesteader. Because I do follow some of those accounts, and he's like, it's just a matter of time.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:44

You want to do like vegetables and all that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

Vegetables, yeah. And then I could around the house itself, I would love to plant some hydrangeas and some other pretty flowers, but my thing is more like have a working vegetable garden and then you know, eventually chickens and goats, and that's where he thinks I'm taking it.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:00

So staging. Yeah, awesome. Um, what's a small hill you'll die on that has nothing to do with your job?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Oh man. Okay, Christmas lights.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:12

Oh, hit me. Uh Mark knows about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

Or Christmas decorations in general.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

And I think A, in the South, it is still like hot. I I mean, there are Thanksgivings where I have been in shorts, you know? So the people who decorate their house, I mean, the day after Thanksgiving or after Halloween for all of November, I'm like, I just one, let's like not forget about Thanksgiving. But two, I just cannot get my head in the Christmas, full-blown Christmas mode when it's still probably like 60, 70 degrees outside. Um, so I'm just kind of like, all right, let's all as a people agree to wait till the day after Thanksgiving, go for it, knock yourself out. And I know that the haters out there are gonna be like, but then I decorate my whole house for one month. Well, this is my hill. Why are we all taking Christmas decorations fully down January 2nd? January is the most cold, depressing, dark, gloomy, sad into February. Like, so we we go ahead and decorate before we're even through the other holidays, and it's still warm and like light outside past dinner time. But then for the month that is the worst, we're like, you know, those sparkly twinkly lights that made me so happy at my soul. Let's take those down and put them in the attic and just be depressed for January. So I'm like, all right, let's everybody just shift it. Let's do a full two, two and a half, leave them till Valentine's Day.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:42

This became the tip. I was gonna have to listen to the thing too. I was like, if there was a lectern in this room, you would have stood up.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

Like, I've we leave the Christmas decor till Valentine's Day. Let's get all the cold dark month.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:53

You would love our house because we left our Christmas lights and Christmas tree up until it was it was early February. This year. This year. This year. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:01

We did that in 2020 or 2021. We did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:04

Then also Christmas itself is not like the end of the season. You know, then Christmas can be right in the middle of all that happiness instead of like that huge dopamine letdown where not only is Christmas over, but like we gotta take all the happiness down and be depressed for the next two months, you know?

SPEAKER_09 1:09:22

So Sarah, I didn't know where you were gonna go with that. And so I don't want to make it to sound like that. I didn't think you were gonna have an argument. I just didn't know where you were gonna go with it. But I think you might actually have an argument there.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:31

Right.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:31

I'm gonna run for office once.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:35

With the Christmas starting right after uh Halloween. Yeah, she's totally into that.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:41

But I I we know several people that are yeah, that are just shift it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:45

It can still be two and a half months. I agree.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:48

You still you still get the amount of time with Christmas and all the decorations, but you're shifting the time frame. This is where it starts. Yeah, this is it. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

If that happens, y'all know where you heard of her shift. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:00

All right. So uh just cycling back to Nashville. Uh what's your favorite area of Nashville?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:04

12 South. That's where I lived. So it is home. It's still where like my favorite area to go back to. Um, it's making me sad because as it grows, it's changing. And I mean, that's a blessing that occurs. Like a few of my favorite spots have closed, which are sad, but then also there's some really cool new stuff in that area. But 12 South is where me and my friend that started the travel business, she and I were practically roommates. We lived in this little house that was renovated into two apartments. I think it it wasn't a duplex, but it had like two little, like a side door and a front door, and th those went to different apartments. So she and I lived in that house together. Yeah, it was like the house that built me, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:50

I don't remember. It's all I it's pretty old.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:53

I don't know. I think it's like it is older than like a little big town. Yeah. So I got one more, right? Yep. Yep. He always keeps track of how to do. Um if you were not in design right now, what would you be doing? School teacher of uh kindergarten.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

Um I do love kids. I don't think I'd be the I think I'd be a very fun teacher. But I think I personally would get burned out on it, so probably not my best fit. Um probably doing something in travel. I love to travel, you know. I'm like so proud of my friend who's built her business, and so I know a lot more about that industry now than I think I really ever would have thought. Um but I would love to do something in travel, and because I think there's a way you could still be very creative with that and have Enneagram 7 type of experiences and stuff.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:38

So just for Enneagram 7, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:41

But she could curate other trips for other numbers.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:45

Yeah, that would be kind of the like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:48

What are you? Yeah. And is your partner something else? And how do we blend that experience?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

I think a huge piece of interior design that you don't like.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:56

I think we've just started a new business with the three of us.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:59

But it would travel planning and stuff would still kind of be a little bit like project management in a way. And that's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot of what interior design is, whether regardless of what niche of the field you're in, if you can't project manage, you better have somebody on your team who can. Because if you can't execute, it's who cares that you came up with a great, brilliant design if you can't execute it, you know? Yeah. So I think travel would be my pit.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:24

My last one is if you could have a superpower, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

Teleportation.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:29

Teleportation.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:31

For me and to travel everywhere.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:33

Well, me and my friend, we talk about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:35

You could hold their hand and they'd go with you? Is that how it works?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:37

Yes, my my travel friend lives in London now. Um, and she and I talk all the time. We're like, honestly, the biggest problem in our in our friendship is just the fact that we can't teleport. Right. We just fix that, we'd be good, things would be, you know, not to mention if I invent teleportation, I will tell no one, but there will be signs. You guys will just never see me again. I will just be like popping up places. My design business will fully be done. I'll just be designing my own homes at that point, you know.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:04

We wrap this interview and then we watch the game. And I don't can't where is where's US playing Australia? With Dallas, where are they playing?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:10

In Seattle. Yeah, I'm there. Yeah, and then you're in Seattle.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:14

I'm like on the like court side, like on the field. Oh no, but I I think that would be a cool superpower.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:20

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, I'm I'm glad we were able to eventually pull you out of your shell as we've gone through the podcast. Um it is uh it really it's been a pleasure having you on. Yeah, it's been great. Yeah, thanks for having me. You guys are um and so and and unfortunately, everyone that's listening will not hear the rest of our conversations uh as we crack open a beer at uh good people and watch the USA game. But um, um so one thing we do uh is we do create a custom song for each guest to finish the podcast. And so I think the hook will probably be House Before the Drapes will be the kind of the line. Um what genre music would you like it to be in?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:58

Chill pop.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:59

Chill pop. Okay, we can do it. All right, great. Thank you so much for coming on. We enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

It's fun She left Auburn with a heart set on design. Found a job in Nashville, thought the dream was right on time. Commercials and office lights just never felt quite true. She found herself imagining what home could really do. So she built it from the ground up, one client at a time. Many through the weekdays while chasing dreams at night. Every little project was another chance to show the beauty details that most people never know. Cause every little card. Every stitcher just the sofa. One double choice at a time, a cat in the time, a little moment, something that will shine. Something that will shine. Closer to her family, Birmingham became another place to write the next chapter of her name. Some rules take forever, but there were those.