All-In Design
"All-In Design" is IIDA Alabama's podcast that invites you into the dynamic world of commercial interior design. Immerse yourself in the artistry, innovation, and inspiration that shape the spaces where we work, collaborate, and create. Discover the latest trends, cutting-edge technologies, and timeless design principles that define the ever-evolving landscape of commercial interiors.
All-In Design
Episode #66 - Interview with Isaac Holman
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Join us on this very special episode of All-In Design, as we travel to Nashville to have a conversation with Isaac Holman with ESa. It's always a pleasure to have someone on the podcast who has a passion for what they do and Isaac's love of design is apparent from the beginning. We are also joined on this episode by Chad's brother Lew (Mark is not the only one with family members in the industry), so we have four on the mic for this episode as we discuss healthcare design, residential influences, and IIDA.
Recorded live before a studio audience. This is all in design. Hello and welcome to All in Design Idea Alabama's podcast. My name is Chad Moore here with my co-host Mark Griffo.
SPEAKER_02Hey everybody.
SPEAKER_04And also my brother. We happen to be in uh Nashville. We drove up 65 this morning, uh, failed to make the right turn into Huntsville and ended up in Nashville. So um we are here uh to uh kind of uh branch out, I guess. We're we're broadening, we're not gonna be the Alabama podcast, we're taking over the entire southeast.
SPEAKER_02That's the goal. That's the goal. We're we're going, you know, we're going national. And I'm sorry, Lou, do you want to say hello to everybody? Apparently I failed the early test, but you look you look a little a little mildly wounded over there, like because we were joking earlier about like picking on Lou like during the show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because Lou helped us set this up. He did.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and he's he's here really as kind of a translator. So if um our guest talks about something Tennessee or Nash Nashville that Mark and I don't understand, we can translate it for us and say this is what he means.
SPEAKER_02To be fair, we are from Alabama.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02So I make no assumptions. And we were on our way to Huntsville. This is actually, you know, let's not forget, because it's been a it's been a it's only been two weeks since we did our last show. Right wink, wink. Wink wink. Um, but we were in Montgomery. Right. So, you know, we've been moving around quite a bit now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh we still got to make it to Chicago. I keep bringing that up to remind ourselves that we gotta go to Chicago. And then for the people that we're on the board with to pay for that trip. That's right. We want to have a we want to do an interview with Cheryl Durst.
SPEAKER_04So anyway. Yeah. Um, so uh yeah, I was gonna and well, I guess I was gonna turn it over to you. You're already talking. Um you want to go ahead and introduce it.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot of us in the room today, so yeah. Yeah, no, I am I am very uh happy to introduce uh Isaac G. Holman. He is a senior interior designer design manager here at ESA in Nashville. Um and why don't we ask this earlier? Are you on the IDA Tennessee board? I am. Okay, I thought that was the case. What's your position there?
SPEAKER_01So I'm the VP of City Centers, which is a new position for our chapter.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, great. Well, we're gonna have to get into that because you know, Chad, what are you, the VP of City Centers? I happy to be, yes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was I get confused between VP and director. We should be just let these guys talk about it. Let's talk shop.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, uh yeah, so Isaac, we're super stoked to have you on the show. You as well, Lou. Thanks for helping us set it up. Um, Isaac, you know, the floor is yours, man. Why don't you uh introduce yourself and tell the folks a little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, first of all, thank you, Mark. Thanks, Chad. You are so welcome for inviting me. I'm uh completely honored to be on the podcast today. Um I know you guys have done quite a few episodes, and I'm sure I know you've interviewed some friends of mine down in Alabama, so I'm excited to be part of the yeah. Yep, yep, yep, Leslie McClane. Um so I'm part I'm proud to be part of the group. But yeah, a little bit about me. Um I was born in Memphis. My family lived in Memphis, um, born in 1980, and then when I was two years old, we moved to Oxford, Mississippi, where my parents had lived previously. Um, and so I spent the rest of my childhood there. Um and then my family was kind of divided between Ole Miss and Mississippi State. I was gonna ask that question. Yeah. My parents met at Ole Miss, um, but and my dad was not from Mississippi, but my mom was from Mississippi and most of her family went to Mississippi State. Okay. My two older brothers went to Mississippi State, so I was already kind of leaning towards going to Mississippi State um just to get away from home and you know see something different. Um but I I kind of grew up with a lot of design influence um around me and found out Mississippi State had an interior design program and um a really good interior design program. And so I wound up there um and I knew that's what I wanted to do. So I was in and out in four years and then um knew about ESA through a college she was two years ahead of me, a classmate. Um well not classmate, but uh another student, and she is at ESA still. Um so I knew about the firm from her, so I did an internship at ESA in 2002, summer internship, and then they hired me full-time after that, and that's the only job I've ever had.
SPEAKER_04Nice, nice. Um you mentioned there was a lot of kind of uh interior design around you when you were growing up. Can you can you explain that?
SPEAKER_01Um I didn't really even know interior design was a thing. Like no one ever used that term with me, but um my dad always loved drawing floor plans like house plans just on notebook paper. Like he was not an architect at all, um, but he was more creative. And he would draw sometimes the exterior elevations of houses. Um just like as a hobby, like just yeah, yeah, in his spare time. And I when I was really little, I remember sitting in his lap and you know, he would like around me, he would sketch. Do you still have some of those space? I don't I don't think I do. Okay. Um that's a good question, but I don't think I don't think we saved any of those. But um so I had kind of had that influence, and my brothers and I have always played with blocks and Legos. Like I was not the video gamer or um I'm I'm not athletic. I love watching sports, but I just don't have the athletic genes. Um I'm both. I love so you know, um, I played with Legos and Blocks, and um that was what I did on Saturday mornings. Like I had cartoons on, but I dumped the whole tub of Legos out in the family room, much to my mother's chagrin.
SPEAKER_04And uh stepping on those are that groups.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, it's not fun. Um, so I really, you know, that was how I spent my time, and then I would get, believe it or not, for Christmas. Like my family would give me like floor plan books, you know, you buy at the bookstore or whatever. Um, if I went to the library, I was checking out. Mostly from your dad, maybe. Yeah, he would pass them up down, but um, but he would buy them for me. Yeah. Um, so just a lot of that, you know, and then probably the biggest influence was my next door neighbor. Um, we moved to a house when I was seven, and this older couple, um, they'd been on Leighton Road since the 50s. They bought they built their house it sometime in the 50s. We moved there in 1987, so they'd been there a while, and um, they became like my grandparents, and I spent a lot of time over at their house. Um, they had a beautiful yard, like they were, they did it themselves. They were out gardening every day. Um, so I would there was a brick, a low brick wall that separated our yards, and I would hop the hop the wall and go talk to them. How old are you at this point? Seven, eight, nine. My mom would be like, leave them alone. Their house is fabulous.
SPEAKER_04I've got an eight-year-old, so I'm envisioning their names dropping the fence.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, their names were the Downers. Um, and and Miss Downer would be like, He's not bothering us. We love, you know, they had one child and she lived immobile, so they didn't really have family, so I kind of became, you know, their grand grandson. Anyway, their house, it wasn't huge or anything, but it was designed by an architect and an interior designer that they hired. Um, and it was just I just loved it. Like, we didn't have a lot of money, and we had hand-me-downs, you know, and we did a few things when we moved into the house, but to know someone built it and designed it from scratch and all the thought, she would tell me, like, you know, this was the decision-making process or why we have it though. The architect thought we should do this, we wanted to do that, like, you know, just explain all of that. I'm like, this is so cool.
SPEAKER_04And then she probably was been waiting for someone to tell this too. And this eight-year-old, she would she would tell other people their eyes would just glaze. Yeah, but this eight-year-old that keeps climbing the fence or the wall.
SPEAKER_03Who has a drawing of the house understands the intentionality that's being described here?
SPEAKER_01So, yeah, we had a lot of that was a lot of our conversation um from an early age was about their house, you know, and um, so that was a big influence. And then um another, I would say the second biggest influence, I I worked for her. Um every in high school, every Friday, I would I would vacuum clean her house.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And she paid me five dollars, and it took me like an hour. She would dust and I would vacuum, that was the arrangement. And I would literally, I'm not making this up, I would literally get in my car after she gave me the five dollar bill and go to Walden Books and buy an interior design magazine. Wow. So that's when I really like put all of this together, um, learning about like they had hired a professional designer. Then I'm reading these magazines and seeing houses from and it was Southern Accents magazine. It was published by Southern Living out of Birmingham. So there's all these designers from the Southeast. I'm learning all these companies that run ads, you know, in the magazine. So I felt like, or I feel like by the time I got to Mississippi State in '98, I already had like a four-year education somewhat of designers, companies, but I was also learning about design, studied the photographs. I that's what I did. I I re- read and reread and reread these magazines. I had them memorized. Um so yeah, that was kind of like my all of that together, just sealed the deal. Like, this is what I'm doing. I don't and my mom would my mom was very supportive. My parents split when I was 14, and my dad kind of left the picture altogether. But my mom would was very supportive, but she would did ask me occasionally, are you sure there's nothing else you want to do? Like she's she's a pharmacist, you know. Like, yeah, are you sure? And I'm like, mom, I've thought about it. There's there's nothing else that really grabs my attention like interior design. So that's kind of the background of how I wound up where I am.
SPEAKER_02What's what's great about that, and that's just wonderful to hear, because we were talking about this before before you arrived, because you know, we do the the famous pre-interview questionnaire that we have people fill out, and you know, we get a we get a lot of good questionnaires, and we've we've jokingly got a lot of not great questionnaires. But like we were like, I made the comment, I was like, Man, I wish I was this passionate as Isaac, because like your answers through the from start to finish come off at that level of like, this is what I do, like this is who I am. Um and I just I just say that just to kind of give a little bit of a prelude, I think, to what the next next you know, hour or so is gonna be, just because your passion really shines through on that. So that's cool to hear that the the story of like you just being a child and then going into Mississippi State and and doing the job. Child prodigy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah, getting get in your five dollars and immediately drive me to buy more, yeah, another magazine.
SPEAKER_03Not a comic book, not candy. No, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04That's candy for him, right? That's true. That's true. So when you get to Mississippi State, though, that was when you were first introduced to a commercial interior design, which probably was like, whoa, like I didn't know this. What this is a whole new side. Right.
SPEAKER_01And I think a lot of people, well, maybe not in this day and age, but you know, we're we're of a different generation, right? We're on the older side of of society right now, I would I think is a fair statement, right? And we didn't have social media and and free internet, right? Exactly. And being in a small town, no, I never heard who designed a bank. And I never even thought about it, you know. But like once I got to college, it was kind of like, why did I never think about that?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, um, but I just wasn't exposed to that. Like my church met in like a strip mall, you know, so we didn't have somebody designed that strip mall. Someone described that.
SPEAKER_02I also thought you were going someplace different with that. No, my brain moved faster.
SPEAKER_01No, but like, you know, the bank had been there forever. Like, I never thought about like somebody selected those chairs or the carpet or laid out the walls. Like, no, we no one talked about that in my in Oxford. Um so yeah, that was that was really like a oh wow, when I got to Mississippi State. And yes, we had residential classes, residential studios. Um, but my professors were pretty honest. I don't think there was any like manipulation behind it, but they said it's really hard for a 21, 22 year old to start out in residential because you need clients with money, and clients with money are not typically going to trust a 21, 22-year-old right out of the gate. Right.
SPEAKER_04So whereas a bank will.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, if you firm. Yeah, more than likely if you go the commercial route, you're gonna be at a uh an established architecture firm. Right. I'm not out going getting work. It's handed to me, you know. Resident And you're part of a team, you know, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And while like my walking in the door to Mississippi State, obviously I only knew about residential and that was my track, but but I'm also practical and I like to eat, you know. So I I I did take their advice to heart, and most of us did. Like, yeah, that's probably smarter as a 21-year-old.
SPEAKER_04Right. But it's it seemed in some of the the questions that we get back, you still have a passion for residential. Yes. And and do you um do you find that bleeds through as you work on your commercial? Absolutely. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I try to I try to let it bleed through.
SPEAKER_04And in what ways?
SPEAKER_01What would just I I think at the core it's like the feeling. Um and I I do healthcare, which we'll probably get into. Um, you know, that's that's the one area of commercial where I would say that's the one building type where really no one wants to be. I always say um no one wants to be in the hospital unless you're having a baby, and even that can be stressful. Yeah, that the um the husband doesn't want to be there. Right. And it's it's tense all the way around, you know. Even the skilled surgeons, like as comfortable as they may be in their craft, it their environment still impacts them, affects them, right? So um I try to take the comfort of home, what I love about residential and the details and the warmth and the you know the cocoon-like atmosphere, the comforting, nurturing part of a house. And how can I translate that into yes, I do mostly healthcare, but I've done other commercial types, and it's like how can I still translate those feelings into these commercial spaces?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And it does seem like that's been a big trend. Totally. Yeah, and shift that you're starting resommer, and you're seeing where residential design is more and more going into e corporate spaces and then also healthcare. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Tell us a little bit about like because before we jump too much into the healthcare, um, because which we're definitely going to get into, but tell us a little bit about ESA. Like, because you so you interned there and then became one full-time. But like just tell us a little bit about the firm. Sure.
SPEAKER_01And then kind of how you got into healthcare while you were at the Sure. So ESA was established in 1961 by Earl Swinson, um, architect. He's no longer with us, um, but he was a very unique person. I didn't know him that well, even though I was there for a while with him. Um but he just had such great vision. I mean, he was the cheerleader, he had big ideas, um, like April Land Hotel, you know, like all this glass and everything's under this glass canopy, and no one had done that, you know. Like he he just had these grand ideas um and and could execute them, which is rare to have both of those traits, you know. Um, and he assembled a great team of people, obviously. But we've been there since '61. Um I showed up in 2002 and we had around 180 employees. We're now up to 200, 205, somewhere in that range. Um, but we do all types of commercial design. Um I would say government is probably the thing we haven't done much of, but we're really big in healthcare, um, hospitality, corporate, multifamily has taken off since 2020. Um and then all kinds of just commercial, commercial properties. Um when I started as an intern, I was exposed to lots of different, you know, I bounced around. I wasn't really assigned to one designer. I just filled in wherever people needed help. So I got to see and be part of lots of different projects.
SPEAKER_02Um I that's very unique. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Special. Kind of on a I don't want to say a fluke, but randomly, I guess one day, um I was walking by a designer's desk and she was like, Hey, are you busy? And I'm like, No, not terribly. She was like, Well, um, one of our principals who was in the education, higher education world, he needs help. Can you just get with him and see what he needs? And that turned into like five years working with him mostly at Treveka Nazarene University here in Nashville. Did a lot of work with them. And that was a great, great experience to be part of something in my own backyard and in a smaller college where you really got to know the people and you really got down to details, and people were very involved with a lot of those decisions. Then 2008 hit. It was a good good year. No, no, maybe in Birmingham, but not here. That's what everyone says. It hit Birmingham in 2009. Yeah. Yeah. We were about a year late. Well, it was, I may have the wrong year, but it started in 08. But that work all I mean, not just Trebeca, like higher ed across the board went kind of stopped. And so um, I had done some health care before, I had done some hospitality, um, a little bit of senior living, but because of the recession, I jumped to 100% healthcare and I've never gone back to any really anything else.
SPEAKER_02Is that by put you on the spot a little bit? Is that by choice or just the way the firm is now structured? Like, are you like could you could you go in tomorrow? Again, this is where I put you on the spot. Could you go in tomorrow and be like, I want to work on commercial? Or are you like in the healthcare, like I'm loving this? Do we need to have somebody else on ESA and we can ask them some questions on your behalf? You know, I He needs a raise too. They're like, who is this guy from Alabama?
SPEAKER_01Coming to Nashville just spouting stuff. You know, at my core, which I'm trying to work on this, but at my core, I'm a people pleaser. And I wanted to work at ESA. Like, like I knew about ESA from sophomore year of college when my coworker Misty had graduated and started at ESA. And I actually like called her with some questions and for a class assignment, but I genuinely was interested in ESA. And uh so I wanted to be there, and so whatever they tell me to do or whatever the project they put me on, right, I was willing to do it. And I think I think I'm unique in that regard at ESA, but if there was an opportunity, I'm like, yeah, I'll help with that. Yeah, I'll help with that. You know, I wasn't going to say I'm only doing this or only doing that. Um, but I think there's been more opportunities in healthcare. And since I kind of went over to that segment after the recession, um, the opportunities just kept coming. With uh pretty much I had multiple clients, but there's one client I've been with continuously since 2011. Just the next hospital, the next hospital, the next renovation, whatever. Right. Um, and and I do really love it.
SPEAKER_04Um it's also it's a specialized. Right. So once once you get into it and you have that expertise and knowledge, it's not like you couldn't go work on something else, but totally couldn't. But somebody that that's you know well versed in hospitality can't just jump into healthcare as easy. No. Right.
SPEAKER_01I think it's the hardest uh segment to work in for sure.
SPEAKER_03But it's also a tremendous firm. I think that's what I was gonna say. He loves working there. Absolutely. I totally get that as a rep. You visit lots and lots of firms. Uh sometimes people have asked me, like, what firm would you work at if you had those skills? Which I don't, but that would that would be one where I could see definitely just the way the way people are treated, including the reps. They really take care of you when you come in. There's somebody assigned to you. They are you set up? What do you need anything? They come back. IT, are you all plugged in? Sometimes you go in and you're on your own for a half an hour trying to find things, and it's just uh a caring environment. Yeah. So like if you get there, the door's not locked, and you can't get in. Right, right. Right. They'll come make sure everything's fine. Hey, here's where this is, here's where that's because I can tell in your eyes you're like, there's a story here.
SPEAKER_04There is there is a story. It's um it's um I won't name any names, but Lou was texting me. Like he had called me, I don't know if it was a week or so ago, but it was he was on the way to do a lunch presentation. And he's like, Okay, I just got here, so you know I'll talk to you later. I was like, Yeah, all right, talk to you later. And then he texts me, he's like, Door's locked. And nobody was they all left to go get coffee or something. And then they showed up and like you don't got it.
SPEAKER_02What are we going to schedule the next nothing? Louis on the calendar, but we really want a lockdown.
SPEAKER_03We'll be back when we get back. He'll be here. You nailed that. That would never happen for a DSA. No, that would never happen.
SPEAKER_04And really, I mean, that's it's coming from a rep perspective, that's all we really care about, as long as we're treated right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Exactly. I'm just saying they're very it's a very kind group. And and I I think it bears it out because uh the you you look at the tenure of the people that are there and they're all all among the best of the industry and work all across the country, but people don't tend to leave.
SPEAKER_04Right. That does say something. For sure. I mean that that's one of those those soft indicators when you look at a firm or look at a business and how long the longevity that people have stayed there. Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's I mean, it's a tough industry, too. I mean, you know, whether you're an interior designer or an architect. I mean, it's tough working in an architecture firm. I mean, aside from like going through recessions and then COVIDs and all the things, but just, you know, I mean, there are other people out there that want to take your business from you, right? So you've got to remain competitive. So, you know. That is a challenge in this day and age. How much does your your your love of like how does your love of residential marry with your your healthcare skills, you know, after decades?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think it's still there. I think it um it's probably it's not something I even think about, honestly, because I think the residential is just like ingrained in me. Um and it it is I think this is why I love one reason why I love healthcare. Obviously, it's the outcome, right? Like I know I'm I am influencing and making a difference in a community. Like that is a direct, right? You know, not to knock any other market segment, but I'm like, again, no one wants to be there, so how can what what I done what can I do to make it better for them and hopefully affect their healing for the better. Right. So I take that very seriously, but I think it's it's also just um the details. I think residential design, and I'm not talking like style of design, but I just think there's I know a lot of residential designers and they pour their heart and soul into their projects, and it's the details, and they're like, no one may ever notice this, but I know it's there. Right. And I know it's the right thing to do for the client, and I take that approach. Like there's some things in projects no one I mean it's visible, but like no one's probably noticing it on a day-to-day basis. But I know it's there, I know I do.
SPEAKER_04And that in that very rare time when somebody does go, oh, these things are these are amazing. You're like, yes, yes, somebody got it. Somebody got it. And I made sure of that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03But in that case, you're doing it for an entire community, perhaps. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I mean, the impact that's one of the things that healthcare, the impact, you know, corporate, I mean, uh obviously the people that work there and if you got clients that are coming in, but as you were saying, it's it's such a stressful time. You know, I think you know, if you're at your job, there's days that can go by that you have no recollection of because you're just doing the same thing. Um whereas when you're in a healthcare environment, I mean you remember I was there for that surgery or so-and-so got sick, or you know, whatever. Um, and everyone's on edge. And the impact that interior design can have on that market is huge. Absolutely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well and you mentioned this in your questionnaire too, about you know, the not just the patient experience, but also the caregiver and the workers there. And we've had we've had several uh uh folks on the that that do healthcare and design, focus on healthcare design as well, and they talk about that as well because it's all encompassing. Exactly. You know, which is cool.
SPEAKER_01That's been a shift. Yeah, when I started, it was uh we even had a tagline, I can't remember the exact wording, but it was basically like patient-centered care, you know, um, patient-centered design. Right. Like that that was like our own philosophy, you know, and we've evolved to to add on to that. Yes, that's the primary focus, but you know, you want your doctor to be well rested. You want your doctor to be in a good mood, you want your nurse, you know, your nurses and the and the whole team to enjoy working where they work and have the things that they need closer by less steps.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you want them to have a place to escape when the stress hits the fan, you know. You don't want them yelling at the nurse station or or having a breakdown. You want to provide a space where they can go and have their private moment. Like it's all about people, it's not just patients, it's every single person that's interacting in that facility, and how can we take care of all those people while they're in that building? I think that's a little bit different than like a restaurant or you know, yeah a retail store. Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02We've seen the bear, nobody cares about the people in the back of the house. It's fine. They just yell and I just meet it that way, but I mean, like you know, yeah. Well, no, we've and I've probably said this anecdote before on on this show where we had a healthcare symposium a couple years ago in Birmingham, and I can't remember who the speaker was, but they were talking about just talking about like the the you know, the caregiver well-being and them having half their break. And they were talking about this specific institution that was intentionally doing a study on their facilities, right, to make them better. And one of the things that they found out was that for the people that worked in this wing, the caregivers that worked in you know the the east wing or whatever, for them to get to where the break room, and I'm using air quotes on a podcast here, to get where the break room was, it was a 15-minute walk into a windowless basement. Wow. Right. And it was like, so that's 15 minutes there, 15 minutes back, no sort of mind break in between, or once you got there.
SPEAKER_04The walking is the mind break. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it was, but it was like, you know, there but obvious thing coming out of that study with that very specific thing is like, oh, this is a problem. Like this is not right, you know. And and you could times that a hundred times, a thousand times over by these kind of older established institutions that are doing these renovations or these studies to see how, okay, look, how are we improving the patient experience and the caregiver experience? Yes. And it's it's this it's the same side of the same coin, essentially.
SPEAKER_01It's almost like we got it backwards and now we're correcting it because I feel like, and I've I have been an ER patient twice, I've never been a like hospital room bed patient, but I feel like if we take care of the staff, they're in turn going to take care of the patient. So like I think we've we're now flipping that equation the way it should be.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I did and this is changing subjects, um, but I wanted to do it because we at the end of our questionnaire, we have kind of like uh you know, like if there's anything else that we should talk about, and you threw in was like, well, if we have time, and I was like, well, we can make time. Well, we do it, we can make this last two hours. Yeah, but you want to uh don't know what your schedule is, Isaac. Uh but to talk about IIDA, the importance of networking, and the power of saying yes. Yeah. So do you want to talk about those things? Or sure. Um he's gonna say yes. Yeah, the answer is yes.
SPEAKER_03Those things you brought up. Do you want to talk about them?
SPEAKER_01So yeah, um, I was involved at Mississippi State we had like a combined ASID IIDA chapter. Um, and I wound up being the president of that chapter, um, which I loved, and got to, you know, work with a great group of fellow students as officers and planning events and and um bringing more professionalism to the underclass.
SPEAKER_04I mean, you know, like as would you do mixtures with the cowboys that were also in the building? We did not. This was before we started. Yeah, this is before we started recording uh where the the interior design was in the building that also had, I guess, agriculture. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that was an interesting combination.
SPEAKER_01Um but yes, I so I was learning, you know, about leadership, and that kind of stems from high school. Like um, I grew up more introverted, pretty shy, and then when I got to high school, I just started getting involved with more things, and um, and then in college uh opportunities came along. But I also I think um to my credit, I stepped up, you know, and I expressed interest. You know, it's a two-way street, like you've gotta you've gotta express interest and and be someone that um professors look to like they might be good for this role or this position or whatever. Um and so when I got to Nashville, so I have this thing, like when I go somewhere new, I take like a year and just observe. Like I'm not I'm not walking in the door like I own the place. Um and people I know people that are like that, and it it's a turnoff for me. Like I it's kind of a red flag for me. Like you just display, like you just walk in. And it's not it's not like you're in my territory, it's just like you don't even know anything that's going on. So that's my approach. Yeah, my approach is like take a year, like go to some things, two years maybe, go to some things, just fill things out. Well, um, so I was going to like our Nashville City Center events when we had them, and um as my world works, it's it's like a big spider web. Um a lot of connections, which I'm blessed to have. But my cousin, Nancy Leach, was actually the president of our chapter at the time um when I moved right right after I moved here. So she was like, hey, you should come to these events. It'd be great to get to know, you know, other designers. And I'm like, all about that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, perfect.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so I just started going to Nashville City Center events, and then um she was like, you know, we're really looking for some fresh blood in the Nashville City Center. Would you want to be the would you want to be nominated or I'll nominate you for the director of Nashville City Center? And I was like, well, sh sure, I guess, you know. Um I don't really know what all that was.
SPEAKER_04Is this still first year here?
SPEAKER_01No, this was probably like 2006. So I'd been here like four years at that point. Okay. Um anyway, she sent me to Chicago to headquarters for CLC. And I guess I was like 26, 27, and I went with the Memphis City Center director at the time, Courtney, and now I'm blanking on her name, but um so I know you can't see me, you guys don't know what I look like in Alabama, but at 26 I looked like 12. And Courtney, Courtney looked like 12. Courtney had braces, you know. Um so we walk in on Saturday morning, 30 minutes before it starts, we both had backpacks and Cheryl and everybody's heading up. They were like, Can we help you? They thought we were college kids, you know. Um, but being in that room like for that weekend just opened my eyes even more, you know. It's like these moments where like I have an idea of something and then I it's like interior design, you know, like I had an idea and then I buy a magazine and I'm like, whoa, this is way more than I thought it was. Then I get to college and I'm like, whoa, this is way more than I thought. Right, you know, so walking into that IIDA headquarters um and being in the room with all these people who are older and more experienced than I am, and just learning from them. I'm like, this is yeah, I drank the Kool-Aid. Cheryl talks about drinking the Kool-Aid. I totally drink it, you know, and it tasted good, right? You know? Cheryl makes it. I'm still sick of it. Like it wasn't poison Kool-Aid. So um I could talk for a long time about it, but I've been in and out, and I think a lot of us, you know, we go through phases, and so I've served on the board. I wound up being the president of our chapter during the recession, which I do not recommend.
SPEAKER_04We don't blame the blame. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and I and I it it was not a good experience, not just the recession, but people were stressed and personalities, and like I was like, I gotta take a break. Like this, this is stressing me out, and you know, this is not worth it. Um, and I'm a transparent person, so you know, that's that's the truth, that's the honest truth. I was like, I'm I'm kind of done. But I've come back several times in other capacities, and uh the group that we have right now is incredible. Like, I I mean I I don't know if I'm supposed to say this or not, but I was on the nominating committee for this year's board, and I nominated myself because I'm like, I want to be part of this, you know? Yeah, we've come a long way. Totally, yeah. And Lou was part of the change, you know, like probably so getting getting rid of Lou off the board.
SPEAKER_04I was on it for a good long while.
SPEAKER_01But um, I'm like, now I'm reading it. No, no, no, no, no. Lou helped just turn the ship around. Uh because it it took a while to come out of the race.
SPEAKER_03We've had some really strong leaders. And I mean I think Cheryl from a national organization inspired that as well. Absolutely. Yeah. But people here have stepped up in Tennessee.
SPEAKER_02So how many, how many members do y'all have, roughly? Do y'all do y'all have any idea? I should know. I think 300 and something across the whole state. Right. Yeah. Yep. And city centers here and in Memphis and East Tennessee. There's a combined Knoxville, Chattanooga. Okay.
SPEAKER_01They kind of get together as one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so so Lou, you're not on the board anymore? Not right now. No, I was on for a long while. I mean, I've seen I've rolled off and on and back on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It does seem like we you roll on and then you stay on for several years. It seems you just kind of get back.
SPEAKER_03What had happened was there was there was COVID, somebody had to step up, somebody stepped out of a role at the special events, and uh Casey, who was doing the next big event after COVID, like, I need somebody to help. And so I jumped in and got back on the board, and we had a big top circus, and it was unbelievable. So it's been great momentum. Great momentum since then.
SPEAKER_01And that's what I'm talking about. Like, that's where my passion is is like, well, I I was gonna say this too. Let me back up because you said yes. You know, KC was like, I need help. You said yes.
SPEAKER_04The power of saying yes. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And I don't and I don't think we think about it, or at least I don't always think about something so simple as saying yes. And sometimes you don't know what you're really getting into, but in 2000, I guess it was five, we had like a I hate to even say it was a fashion show, but it was like uh messenger bag design. Do you remember that? Like it was like a messenger bag design contest. And I did not volunteer, I just showed up to the event, and it was like a runway, and you have the big like light, you know, to follow the models like down the runway because the lights were gonna be dimmed. And I don't know what happened or I don't know how it happened, but someone on the committee was like, Can you run this light? We we don't have anyone to like physically move the light and follow the models as they and I had never done that before, you know. Um, I had acted in high school. I was in the cast, I wasn't part of the crew, I wasn't, you know, production. I but I was like, that's simple enough, I can do it. So I did it. And literally after the event, someone on the committee came up and said, Would you want to be involved in the committee next year? And I was like, sure. Well, then it turned into like me and two other people co-chairing that next event, which I'd never done that before, you know. And then that's when Nancy was like, Hey, can you be the Nashville City Center director? And then like I just moved, kept moving up. And I just I look back and I'm like, it was I said yes to one little task, you know, like literally five before the show started. That's how they get you. Right. And it might be a flashlight. Um, it's and I but I think about how that changed. And I'm not being dramatic, but like that did change my life. Like, because I went to headquarters and I met all these other leaders from all over the country, and then social media came out, and now we're connected, like you know, everybody moves on, but you still have that that connection. Right. And I'm still some of my best friends to this day are IIDA leaders that I met in Chicago in 2007, but we were in the same like class, if you will, and we just kept in touch with each other. And so we'll reach out, like, I'm looking for this kind of product, or I have this problem, or whatever, and we we you know network and help each other, and like that's life-changing. Yeah, that's not being dramatic. That's like these are people that have impacted my life, and we are doing life together because of this organization, right?
SPEAKER_03Peers that you never would have met otherwise. Yes, right. I mean, you joke about getting their hooks in, and certainly at some point there is some of that recruiting and just trying to get, but when you get when you get the right people onto a team and you get some momentum like that, even people who maybe have been out for a while, like Isaac, are like, I want back in. Yeah, I want back in because this is going in the right direction. Yep.
SPEAKER_04We've talked about it before on the podcast. We've had um different members from IEDA come on, but talk about, especially as young designers, that joining IEDA and then starting to take on some leadership roles on the board has been a huge, huge benefit to them. Um, for a number of reasons. One, just to gain experience of running a committee and having people underneath you and making decisions and how to communicate these sorts of things. And in a space that isn't, we're putting up this really expensive building, and you know, like you're you're not leading a big project, it's a softer, more safe environment. And you've got other people kind of keeping an eye to make sure that things are running. So you're getting like this these life experiences and building, you know, kind of a network also because you're getting connected with these other designers at other firms. Um so that that's always been kind of a neat kind of thread that that IDA does.
SPEAKER_03And guess what? They're really creative people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And fun. And fun.
SPEAKER_01We're the most fun group, I think. No doubt.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. And and the the I I loved that you'd written the power of saying yes, because it's it's one of those things that especially if you're going outside your comfort zone, and like you know, like I've never shown a flashlight on models going down a runway. Um you pick up these these different little skills, but also you learn, okay, I can do this thing. You know, I don't have any experience in this, but you know what I can figure it out. I've done, you know, I did this thing and I did that thing, and I didn't know what I was doing then.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_04Um, and so it it I love that because it it does, it stretches you and kind of makes you, I don't know, I think more interesting as a person versus just kind of those people that say no all the time.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes you need to say no, right? Like I don't say yes to everything. Like I'm very picky about what I say yes to, but I I think I have um I like to think I have good um radar, you know, and I'm like that would be a good fit for me, or that's something I need to be involved with.
SPEAKER_02Well, that comes with saying yes from being out and having some gaining experience. Yeah. I'm never gonna do this again.
SPEAKER_04Lou's giving me a no button. Um Chad said yes too many times sometimes. I've I've heard that about you.
SPEAKER_02You're running the event tomorrow, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. That's what I hear.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um so let's get back. Um was there anything else on ID or yeah, I think that covers it. Okay, great. Um I kind of wanted to hear just about some of the projects that you've worked on, maybe ones that have been kind of memorable or have had the most impact.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So um my second project, my first project was um a healthcare project with my mentor, Janet Winterland, who'd been, she was like twice my age. So she'd been at ESA, you know, 20 something years when I showed up. Um so Lou knows her like a tremendous, tremendous designer in person. Um, but so I did that project with her and learned a lot, of course. And then my second project, they hand me, it's an elementary school here in Nashville. And they're like, so Janet's we'll be available if you have questions, but this is your project. And I'm like, what? Like freaking out to say yes to this. Yeah, like yeah, I did not, I did not say yes. Uh it was handed to me. But I know ESA is not gonna let me sink, you know. Um they're they've got my back, but um I jump in and and it was um a historic building close to Vanderbilt, Aiken Elementary School. Um, and we have great schools, but that one was just different, like it just had a different philosophy and a different vibe, I think, from some of the other schools in town. And being in this historic building, um we added on to it. So it's that challenge of like blending old and new. But I had a pretty close relationship with the principal and some of the staff um that she had hand selected to be on, you know, the design committee. And it was it was just a great process, even working, you know, it's government, yes, but like I had a great experience with uh our government leaders and the project manager from the government um was pretty hands off. And I mean, I had rules and stipulations, but he was like, as long as you stay within these guidelines, like I'm not gonna micromanage you, like you're the professional. Um
SPEAKER_04So it was a And you were like, Am I? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well exactly. I feel like being that young. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I'm like 23. Right.
SPEAKER_03And you're a committee and a principal.
SPEAKER_01Right. You know. And I was never, I mean, like our architecture principal always was with me too. You know, like I never really went to meetings all by myself. But um I made mistakes, and that's the best way to learn, of course. But I look back at that and just like I at the time too, I was um living close there. So, you know, it was convenient if I needed to go on site for sure. But um You walked to walk to sight. But I look back and like like something in your backyard, a school, you know, um, and it had not been that long since I'd been, well, it had been a while since I'd been in elementary school, but to be in a school building hadn't been too terribly long at that point. Um But I think that that's always stuck with me that like the amount of trust I was given from project number two, you know, they're like, you're you're ready, you're ready to go. And I did not feel ready at all. But you know, that so that's definitely a memorable one from way back.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's interesting because we uh people that we've had on the past podcast where we've asked that question, a lot of them have kind of a similar story in that it's an it's an early project. It's kind of like it's like the first one where they were really on their own. There were other, you know, obviously you still have people above you that are keeping an eye. Um, but it was uh how much they learn about themselves and again making those mistakes, learning from those mistakes, and how that sticks with you. For sure. Yeah. Um there was one I did laugh about, um, one of your answers, because it was uh can you share a memorable experience about working closely with a client? Yeah. And this was the emergent emergency department that you the freestanding emergency department.
SPEAKER_01And they just kind of said so yeah, we um we started or we worked on this emergency freestanding emergency department um down in Orlando for one of our clients. And um I think maybe I wasn't aware, but I think the long-term plan was always like this is step number one, and then we're gonna come back. So um they came back several years later and wanted to do a um a patient tower connected to the ED with all the supporting spaces. So it was gonna have the dining, the servery, the kitchen, a chapel. It's a faith-based client, so they have a chapel, um, and then all the patient rooms, uh, admin, boardroom, physician's lounge, like all these ancillary supporting spaces. And so this client has their own in-house project management team. So um I worked with uh this project manager on the emergency department, and then when we get ready to do the patient tower, he says Um current CEO is they move their admin people all around all the time. They don't stay more than two or three years at any one hospital to give them you know some experience. Um so he's like, the current CEO's not gonna be here when this tower opens, and the new CEO um is not gonna be here. It's like in between. In between, you know, and he said, You've already designed the emergency department, you understand the vision that we've created, go do your thing.
SPEAKER_03So he legit said you do you for this new tower. I mean, yes, but based based on you know, yeah, we've already got it. He did this, and we like that, but the scale is of this is much larger. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um, and believe it or not, I know this sounds crazy, but this is again the honest truth. I never had a meeting with him. I never I didn't even really do renderings because I'm like, I know what it is gonna look like, you know. I never presented to anyone, I never showed him any anything, period. And he didn't really I know he went on site because he lived there, but like he didn't really ever check in with me until the very end. And and I I did some nice things.
SPEAKER_02I did some really nice things, including name it the Isaac G. Holman Tower, Creative Liberty.
SPEAKER_03Holman Chapel. No, no, he just did Holman Chapel.
SPEAKER_01And I will never forget the project manager. He called me one day and he's like, you have backlit glass in the bathrooms. And I was like, well, when you go to a restaurant, how do you judge the restaurant? Obviously the food, but like when you go to a hotel, how do you judge the hotel? It's the bathrooms. Like any place, public place you go, if the bathroom doesn't look good, you're like, I don't know about the food, I don't know about the care, you know. Right, yeah. Um, okay, well, don't do that again. But we had these vestibules in the public bathrooms. You walk in before you see the sinks and the toilets, and I had this backlit glass panel like right when you walked in, and there was no other lighting in the vestibule. That was the light, and I just thought it was hospitality. Like it looked like you're you know going to a hotel, not a hospital toilet. Right. Um, and there were other things he was like, okay, you know, but I'm like, we didn't have a meeting, we didn't review anything, you know.
SPEAKER_04Well, the reason it cracked me up because the question was, can you share memorable experience working closely with the client? And then your example was the one that you didn't meet.
SPEAKER_03So we were so close that on project number two they're like it was most memorable because I didn't have to work with them at all. I just did what I wanted.
SPEAKER_01And that is a fair that is a fair point. I still work with him. So I've been working with him since 2011. So in my mind, it's like we are close, like, and we do present now, like I, you know.
SPEAKER_02Any more backlit glass in the days are over.
SPEAKER_03No, but he got over it, obviously. So still working together. True. Yeah. Yeah. It was a fun project.
SPEAKER_04How do you see uh technology uh changing in interior design? Yeah. Now we're gonna get real.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Never never what, sorry. Now we're gonna get real.
SPEAKER_04Tough question. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a hot topic, and I I don't I don't know I don't know where I stand like on the spectrum as if I'm like with the majority or the minority as far as interior design. Um technology has definitely helped us. I feel like I'm a better designer because of like I talked about Revit. Um, you know, we used to do 2D drawings like everybody else. And and I have always felt like I've had a strong sense of 3D in my mind. Like I can envision a space. But it was hard it was hard in the 2D computer world to think about like ceiling transitions or any kind of transition, like how things are really coming together or how different planes are coming together. And I would walk in on site and be like, oh, but that's not what I had in mind. And you know, it just didn't come together like I thought it did in my brain. So Revit has definitely helped me be a better designer because I can literally see it in 3D and catch a lot of those like where things transition smoother or cleaner or make more sense. So I'm all for that. Um my challenge personally is like we have so much, so many different programs, and and I'm not gonna say we're like, you know, hard and fast, but but we're strongly encouraged, like use the programs that we're giving you, you know, like don't take meeting notes in Word. Use OneNote because we can all see it, it's shared, it's in the cloud, it's easy to access, it's easy to find things, you know, like and and that took me a minute because I'm like, well, I always do it in Word. I want to do it my way. You know, I do have a little stubborn streak, even though I'm a people pleaser. Um which is annoying. My personality is very annoying and frustrating sometimes. I get quite lovely in this conversation. I get mad at myself. Um, internal to himself, he's saying to himself. Yeah. Anyway, uh, so I've embraced like, okay, this is the best way to do things, these are the programs. Um, I think obviously AI is the hot topic right now, and I I'm I'm not really on the AI train from a design standpoint. Like, I'm a creative. I was born a creative, like I know that. At 46, like God made me this way. Like, there's no, there's no, you know, if my mom asks me, is there anything else you want to do? I'm like, I still don't know to this day. It's design, right? So like I have a hard time like just turning something over, you know, to AI to design. Like, I'm still a designer. Um, I do think it's helpful. We've been in crunches where it's like we've designed the space, but maybe the rendering style isn't quite cutting it. Like we need it to look more moody or more ethereal or more warm or more cold or whatever it is. And we have more fingers. Yeah, we have more. Yeah, or less. We had a client that we weren't doing it fast enough, and she AI'd the space, and my architect was like, Well, that patient chair has seven legs, so you know, let give us the thing. Must cost more. Give us the time to do this. Give us a second to do this the right way. So I get that side of it, but like I'm j I'm just kind of over it already, and we were just getting started. And I think I do think it's this is where I'm like, am I just a grumpy old man at 46? But I do think it's scary. I do think like it's it's the wild west, and we don't know I don't know what the end game is here, and I don't know like what you know what's gonna happen, but it is here, and it's like we we can't ignore it, we can't push it away. Like it's just how do we use it ethically um and responsibly, I think, is the is the challenge. And I don't have those answers unintentionally.
SPEAKER_03Right. Neither do the people in charge of it, actually. So they don't know either. Make it a little scary when they're they don't know.
SPEAKER_04When they're like, uh you know if they're publicly saying, uh, maybe we should this could get away from us. Yeah, you know what the behind the scenes have got to be like. Exactly. Yeah, we were we were talking about AI driving up from Birmingham today, just uh the how you can sp spot it now. You know, you can see like especially you know, written, you know, you can you can read something and go, well, that's totally written by AI. Um and same thing with images that are generated, you're like that's an AI image.
SPEAKER_01And no shade to anyone that uses it to help them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I like we we were talking about examples of how we did use it right on the way up. But like I love English, I love grammar. I took journalism in high school, which is a news I was on the newspaper staff, which is a totally different form of writing. But like I know how to write. I know how to write an email, and I also know how to use a thesaurus, even if it's online. Like, I don't I don't use AI, and this is not I'm not bragging or anything. I just don't think I need to use it to write an email or to summarize a meeting or something. Like and again, I'm stubborn in that regard. It's like I want to write this email. I even though like we don't know each other that well, Mark, like I think if I wrote you an email in AI, you'd kind of be like, who's this? Guy didn't take the time. Right. Like there's just words that you'd be like, who's this guy? Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's uh I compare the writing to to it's all about intention, right? So you mentioned the you know, okay, we were in a bit of a crunch, and you know, okay, how do we make this rendering warmer, cooler, more ethereal? Like that's applied and using IAI with intention because the rendering was still y'all's, right? The project was still y'all's. You you weren't like, shit, we need a patient room, you know, patient room, you know. It was like, oh, we have this. We need to polish it for what we know the end game is going to be. Um and that's completely different than than a blank screen, and then now you've got an entire or or an entire entire email written, you know.
SPEAKER_04So I think there's gonna be uh and there already is a backlash and where things that are human-made or created, there's I think there's starting to be more of a premium on those things versus the mass produced through AI. And so it'll be it's gonna be fascinating. The next five years is gonna be fascinating. Scary. You know, but yeah, I've no nobody has any idea where it's gonna go. No.
SPEAKER_03I mean, using it for research is you know, great. You know, somebody might want to check the check the dimensions if you have that. Check the math. Check the math, because it doesn't always add up. Uh good catch. Using it, yeah. Oh yeah, is that right? No, it's not good catch. This is your job.
SPEAKER_02We're talking about where you're like, like you, you know, I've I've gotten to where, depending on what I'm working on in in chat, you know, where I've had to tell chat, okay, I want you. There's two things. We've you know, we've got a thread going, two things now, chat. I want you to one, pressure chat, pressure test the things that I have suggested or that you've suggested against each other in terms of what will be the best solution for whatever I'm trying to figure out or or my end game there. Right. And two, stop telling me that the most recent thing that I'm putting in is the better thing because that's what we were having a laugh about, is be like, oh, well, you know, da-da-da-da didn't respond. And then I'm like, well, what about and they're like, that is a great idea, Mark.
SPEAKER_04And I'm like, Well, I'm rethinking this whole thing. Yeah, and I think maybe this is the direction that we should go.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, no, like I thought we were kind of yeah, it's it's I've tried in ways and it has worked and used it in sort of a collaborative manner, but I have to force it to do it that way.
SPEAKER_04And it's okay to tell me no.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, no, exactly that. Yeah, like you, if this is a crappy idea, say that this is a crappy idea. Or if we have six things, like I want you in your non-infinite, infinite ability to 900 websites in seven seconds, that's your job, do it. Right, like you know, and then come back and be like, hey, I've researched 900 websites and this is the better answer. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I think I guess my final comment would be on that would be like these people that are like it's their best friend and they're doing therapy sessions with it. Like that's that's where I'm like, oh yeah. And then you know, people have gone to extreme measures and ended their own lives, unfortunately, because you know, yeah of things that have popped up. So yeah, I that's it's not a therapist.
SPEAKER_02No, yeah, it's not a therapist.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we we did with there was a healthcare symposium that we were we had we they used to have them every year and think it's gone to every other year now in Birmingham. But there was a one based on um use of AI in healthcare. And one of the things that I thought was pretty cool was that you know, where they do all the scans where you're getting blood work done or you're getting MRI or imaging or whatever that's being done, that usually when they're doing that, they're looking for something really specific. Right. And so they're okay, we're we're zeroing in on this one thing that we're looking for, we're getting all these tests done to look for this. But those tests, there's so much information they're actually getting that if they can take that and give that to AI, like, okay, we're looking for this thing, but can you just check this other stuff and if anything flags or you see something, let us know. That I think is awesome. Yes, and then it goes to a doctor to go, okay, well, let me see. Oh, call them back, you know. We got some we got another issue there that we weren't even checking for. Those sorts of things. Awesome. Yeah, um, but yeah, it'll be fascinating to see where it all goes. Um so we are we are basically an hour in. Um flew by. So we we usually jump to uh rapid fire here at the end. Yep. So we've got some questions for you.
SPEAKER_02Let's do it.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if you saw my little first.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'll go first. We're gonna start with some hard-hitting questions, Isaac. Uh what's your go-to gas station snack combo?
SPEAKER_01Um salted cashews and I'm boring, bottled water.
SPEAKER_02But you had a that was a that was an answer. That was an answer and rapid fun. Right, yeah, that was. Yeah, okay. That's my go-to.
SPEAKER_04Um, if you were a residential designer, what would be your area of expertise and would you have kind of a signature Isaac thing you would do?
SPEAKER_01Great question. Um I like a lot of different styles, and I I think uh a home has to be a reflection of the people that live there. So, you know, it's it's really about the client, but if someone was just like you do you, you know, do go do your thing, um, there would be definitely some traditional elements, um, but some modern mixed in. I I like a mix of all all different types. Probably more like traditional furniture, but then like modern art, I would say.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Cool.
SPEAKER_02I I wanted to make a joke to Lou and then it went out of my head. Um Do you do you have a rapid fire question you want to ask? I did not, I did not prepare rapid fire questions. I'm terribly sorry. Okay. You said that you you your body language is like a lawyer at a deposition. You're like, I did not prepare any questions. And then you like lean back away, like, no, no, I gotta I gotta gimme.
SPEAKER_03Where's your go-to location on a Friday after work? Bricktops. Yep, there we go. Oh, nice. He knows that.
SPEAKER_02Is that where so that's where people can find you on Friday? Yeah. Cool Springs Bricktops. Yeah. Not West End. Okay. He's got a whole community. I would never, I would never, never just kidding. Um this episode sponsored by Bricktops. But the one that Isaac goes to, not the other one, because that one's when in a project do you feel most confident?
SPEAKER_01When it's all said and done? When it's when it's over. That's a good one.
SPEAKER_04All right. I'm uh stealing one of Mark's questions. Um if you could design a space for a fictional character, who would it be and what would the space be?
SPEAKER_01Wow. Oh my goodness. That is that's a tough question.
SPEAKER_02I usually do ask the hard-hitting questions.
SPEAKER_04You do, yeah, yeah. Or the ones where people go, what? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What kind of AI question is this part?
SPEAKER_03Literally, no one's asked me or I've thought of that before.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. Man, I'm drawing a blank, but maybe maybe I should say uh since we talked about this before we started, maybe I should say the Dowager. Okay. Countess. The Countess. Keep it in the family since my middle name is Grantham. That's right. I've designed some luxury.
SPEAKER_03You know, I'm all about I'm all about some luxurious spaces. You're gonna remodel the Dowager house? Is that what you're done? Yes, there we go.
SPEAKER_02I think that we should uh do something very unexpected, the four of us, and start a Downton Abbey podcast with just us talking to people like not what right now, people that are listening, they're like, what are they talking about? How did this come out? What happens when it's not being recorded? You never know. Um if your life had a theme song, what would it be? Wow. The Downton Abbey. I do like that music.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um man, these are some good questions. They're way, they're way better than the other questions. You know, this is just what comes to mind. Um, and it's probably not the most pop popular. I'm and I'm not like I'll just say it, Shania Twain's today is your day. Not that I'm a I don't dislike Shania, I'm not the biggest Shania fan, but a friend introduced me to that song years ago, and we all have discouraging days, down days. Um I beat myself up. I'm my worst critic, like we probably all are, right? Um, and sometimes when I'm driving to work, it's not like I'm dreading going to work, but maybe there's, you know, a deadline, a tight deadline, or I'm behind, or there's just stress, or I have a lot on my plate, and I and on my 45-minute commute in from the big town of Nolansville, um, I listen to music. And sometimes I'll play today is your day, and it's just very positive. And it's like it's it's just you know, I haven't been through nearly as many things as a lot of people have, but I have been through stuff, and that song just reminds me that like it's it's up here, you know. It's I'm pointing to my head, like it's all in my head. Like he's pointing at the ceiling. I don't know why he's pointing at the ceiling. Like, today is your day. You've got what it takes, you can win. Today's your day to begin. You know, like it's I don't know. That's that's just a reminder that I can overcome. I can start over today, fresh start, and today is my day.
SPEAKER_02It's a great answer, and also your welcome, Shania, for the dozens of bumps you're gonna get on Spotify.
SPEAKER_03I just wrote it down again. Yeah, so you're gonna be pulling it up shortly. I'm gonna uh but give my next question over to my brother. Right. So your hometown's Oxford. Yes. We know you went to state. I've always found that kind of fascinating and cool. And you said not a huge sports fan, but were you happy with the outcome in Oxford this weekend?
SPEAKER_01Yes. I'm a huge SEC football fan.
SPEAKER_03I was um yeah, I was thrilled. That was that was pretty cool. Game day, Kiff and coming back and getting beat. Just wanted to throw that in. It was awesome. It was nice. I think everybody enjoyed it. Except you, sorry, fans.
SPEAKER_04This this podcast will come out on October 1st, so just a few weeks ago when that game happened. Yeah. Amateur I'm new to how this works. So outside of work, what are you most passionate about? Friends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I try um I try and I try to spend as much time as I can with friends. Friends from work, friends from outside of work. I don't always have things every night, but I like to have a full calendar. I love my friends and I have the best friends in the world.
SPEAKER_02Shout out to all your friends. I feel like I should have a better question than the one I'm about to ask. You mentioned vacuuming earlier in your neighbor's house. Yes. What's one chore I weirdly enjoy?
SPEAKER_01Folding laundry. Oh wow. Because I like to be organized. Nobody likes that. I'm I'm a procrastinator at it, but when I finally am I like, nope, but today's the day, it just gives me so much joy to like it's all put away.
SPEAKER_04It's all what if it was somebody else's laundry?
SPEAKER_01I'd probably like that better.
SPEAKER_04Nice. I think you can. There's a side hustle. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I used when I was little, I would go play at friends' houses. This is embarrassing. I wouldn't get so many calls after they were. You would clean their room? I wouldn't play with them. I'd be like, your room is a disaster.
SPEAKER_03That's a servant heart, that is what that is.
SPEAKER_01Like, how do you live like that?
SPEAKER_02This is funny. This is when we get to like the the the anecdotal personal stuff at the very end, where it's like, I always love when personal like, well, this is embarrassing. But I'm gonna say it anyway. That's right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04If you had an all-expense paid vacation, where would you go?
SPEAKER_01There's so many places I haven't been, I'm not the most well-traveled person. But I I think I'm like to go to London. Like I'm upset. I've always said right or wrong. Like I just find it so fascinating that like all the history, like we think we have history here. And I think it's just it would just be so cool to see like where my family didn't live in London, they were out in the country, but uh to see kind of where they lived in the group.
SPEAKER_04Alright, so um, thank you so much for being on. Um a couple things just right before we go. We usually create a special custom song as our outro music. So what genre of music would you like that to be in? Jazz? I don't know if we've gotten jazz, but if we have to play jazz at break tops. And I think the uh the chorus will be they played jazz at brick tops. Uh and then also just wanted to give a shout out to Alfred Williams for allowing us to record here in Nashville. Thank you for your use of your conference room and uh your refrigerator. Yeah, thanks for the drinks. Yeah, so thanks for the space and the drinks.
SPEAKER_02And thanks for Lou for setting it up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and Isaac, thank you so much for coming on. Really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I did too. Thank you so much for the invite. Yep, thanks, man. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_06Isaac grew up down in Oxford town where the grove gets loud when the sun goes down. But when college called, he changed the scene, headed off to state for the maroon and cream. Other kids at five bucks, bought a coke and fries. Isaac had a different kind of prize in mind. Straight to the rap where the good stuff's sat. Interior design magazines, imagine that. Some folks find their callin' late, some folks stumble into fate. Isaac knew just what he liked. Before he even learned to drive, they play jazz and bricktops. Yeah, they play jazz and bricktops. Pour another round of that saxophone talk. We came all the way to Nashville just to hear Isaac talk. Chad Mark and Brother Lou won't stop and play jazz, they play jazz at brick tops. Now he's up in Nashville, working ESA, making healthcare spaces better every day. Hospitals and clinics are his regular scene, but mentioned residential, and his eyes start to gleam. Giving back the something he's always adored. You don't have to wonder if he loves what he does. Give him half a minute, you'll know that he does. They play jazz, brick tops. Yeah, they play jazz, brick tops. Let the piano roll and let that hi-hat pop. We came up from Birmingham and made a Nashville stop. Isaac's talking design and Lu's got the mic and they play jazz. They play jazz and brick tops. Five dollars in his pocket. Did he buy some candy? No. A comic book? No. Baseball cards? Not Isaac. Interior design magazines. Now that's a kid who knew exactly where he was headed. So Mark brought Chad, and Chad brought Lou and Asheville. Got a podcast crew on microphones and Isaac in the chair. Talking about design like nobody else was there. From Oxford beginning to music city lights. Five dollar magazines, the healthcare design. Some people find a job, some people find their spot. Some people find jazz! Let the drum a brush and let the trumpet pop. Keep the walking bass on walking till it drops. Isaac love design and it loves it a lot. Then we learn in Nashville. Nobody forgot they play jack the plate.