Nailing History
Introducing "Nailing History," the podcast where two friends attempt to nail down historical facts like they're trying to assemble IKEA furniture without the manual. Join Matt and Jon (or Jon and Matt) as they stumble through the annals of time, armed with Wikipedia, Chat GPT, and a sense of reckless abandon.
In each episode, Matt and Jon pick a historical event that tickles their curiosity (and occasionally their funny bone) and dissect it like a frog in biology class—except they're the frogs, and they have no idea what they're doing. From ancient civilizations to modern mishaps, they cover it all with the finesse of a bull in a china shop.
But wait, there's more! In between butchering historical names and dates, Matt and Jon take a break to explore the intersection of history and pop culture. Ever wondered if Cleopatra would have been a TikTok sensation? Yeah, neither have they, but that won't stop them from imagining it in excruciating detail.
So grab your popcorn and prepare to laugh, cringe, and possibly learn something (though don't hold your breath). With Matt and Jon leading the charge, "Nailing History" is the only podcast where you're guaranteed to leave scratching your head and questioning everything you thought you knew about the past. After all, who needs a PhD when you've got two clueless buddies and a microphone?
Nailing History
124 Solo Shot: From Bay Bridge Dreams to Royal Decrees
Can frequent handwashing really keep you from getting sick, or is it just one of those life ironies? As I steer the Nailing History Podcast solo while my co-host John battles an illness, this conundrum seems all too real. Join me as I ponder the environmental impact of political campaign mail and pitch a quirky idea for eco-friendly election materials that could transform the way we think about campaign season.
Venture back to the 19th century with us as we uncover the life of one of San Francisco's most fascinating figures, Emperor Norton I. Despite his whimsical self-declared rule, his visionary ideas—like the League of Nations and the Bay Bridge—reveal a surprisingly progressive mind. Emperor Norton's story is one of imagination embraced by a community, teasing out questions about what true leadership might look like and challenging the conventional understanding of the American Dream.
Just when you think the episode is wrapping up, John makes a surprise cameo, adding his own flair to our discussion on Emperor Norton's enduring impact. We muse over his eccentric proposals and the fictional friendships he might have imagined with historical figures like Queen Victoria. As Halloween draws near, don't just settle for a run-of-the-mill costume—why not channel the spirit of Emperor Norton and inspire a conversation on this iconic character from history? Stay curious, and keep the conversation going with us on social media or through email. We can't wait to bring more captivating stories your way next time!
all right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Nailing History Podcast. I'm your host, matt, half of the hosting team of this podcast. I'm here by myself. John's not here. He is busy or not necessarily busy. Our schedules have just been. It's been hard to get our schedules together and I was looking at my credit card statement and I realized that I paid $40-some for hosting this podcast for an entire month where I think maybe we did one episode in the last billing cycle, maybe. If not, it was zero. So I said to myself I got to get this thing back up and going and I know you guys are waiting on pins and needles waiting for another episode, wondering where we are. So I figured I'll give it a shot. I'll give doing this solo thing another shot. John will be on sooner than later.
Speaker 1:Currently he is sick with the reason that he's not sitting on the podcast today. Is he's sick with what may be allergies? At least they started off as allergies from what he said, and I don't know. I just find that funny. He's the type of person who washes his hands after every single thing that he does Touches the door handle, washes his hands, blows his nose, washes his hands, falls on the ground washes his hands. He's just a washing hands guy. He carries around that sanitizer and he's just constantly washing his hands and I just feel like people like that are always the ones who get the most sick. I never get sick. I wash my hands when I need to. I won't get into details on that, but I'm definitely not an over washer. I think that as long as you keep yourself relatively clean and you don't stick your fingers in your mouth constantly, I think you're okay.
Speaker 1:Obviously, there are situations where, if you could potentially get other people sick grabbing a community bowl of nuts, peanuts or I don't know, playing basketball, slap boxing, something like that where your hands are getting either somewhere near their face or near something that's going in their mouth, someone else's mouth yeah, I mean you got to be extra careful, extra cautious, but every day-to-day basis and I don't really find myself in that situation a lot. So my hand washing, I won't get too far into it, but I don't know. I've been pretty good. I've been pretty. I don't think I've gotten many people sick. I've never heard of anyone saying like I got sick and I think it's because you don't wash your hands after every time you touch a door handle at work, so I don't know. A little bit of a rant, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So John's not feeling well. We've just been having he joined the rat race so he's working the old nine to five, working for the weekend, as they say. So I've been trying to figure it out, trying to get it together. Our schedule is just having class and that's why we haven't had any episodes lately and yeah. So I want to just give it a shot, do something solo, see how it works and just to give you guys an update on where we're at and then kind of give you guys some entertainment. Hopefully I can carry the episode.
Speaker 1:I was just trying to think of some things, that Any updates of anything that's been going on. The election's coming up and I've just been getting all this mail, all this election mail, and every time I get it I'm just thinking you know, why are they doing this? Everyone talks about the environment and how you need to preserve the environment, and we're going on paper straws, no more plastic bags to the grocery store, which I'm not going to say one way or the other. I feel like it's probably a good thing, it's obviously not a bad thing to be making those changes. But it's just funny because it's like you get these things in the mail and they're not just like If I was a politician, say, maybe if you felt like you needed to reach out to people via mail as a politician, maybe looking at somebody at the older generation, or I mean that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1:I mean everywhere else you got cell phones. I mean if you don't know who you're voting for, or if you're not willing to go online and try to learn about the local candidates for your local elections or anything and I don't think many people are, to be honest, I know I'm sure not If you don't have the effort to do that, I mean getting them in the mail, you're not going to sit there and look at them, they're going right in the trash and these aren't like. It's not even like normal paper. If I was a politician and I'm trying to get in everyone's good graces or whatever, I would at least do.
Speaker 1:Recyclable paper, really light paper, maybe paper that you could use as toilet paper. You're like, hey, when you read this use time, maybe not toilet paper, because your face would be all over it. Maybe you could use it as scrap paper. I don't know Something where you could reuse it, maybe make a birdhouse out of it or something. Or it could be like one of those Some of that paper that it's biodegradable and it has wildflower seeds in it and it degrades over time.
Speaker 1:It'll grow wildflowers. So maybe you could say something like oh, my policies will spread like wildflowers I guess the phrase is actually spread like wildfire, but I think it works too. Wildflowers do spread. So you'd say like oh, my policies will spread like wildflowers. Or oh, if you vote for me, kindness will spread across the country like wildflowers, something like that. And then have a note in there saying like oh, and, by the way, when you're finished reading this, you know, toss it out out the window and you know it'll grow these flowers that you'll probably have to deal with for the next four years, just like me. That's not bad, that's not a bad play, kind of tie it in and it works together.
Speaker 1:But no, they send you these. It's like that real heavy-duty, almost cardboard-like paper or poster board paper covered in wax. Just probably the worst for the environment. And it's like this stuff would last. This paper is going to last through a nuclear holocaust, I feel like, and they're giving it to everybody. You can imagine how much of this is getting sent out If I'm getting 20 pieces of it in my mail. Multiply that by how many people, how many residences there are in the country, and I assume it's going everywhere. I mean Pennsylvania. We're in a little bit of a heavier situation because we got the Senator race going on, so Bob Casey and whoever's running against him going at it. Editor's note Senator Bob Casey, the incumbent Senator of Pennsylvania, is facing off in November against Republican nominee Dave McCormick. Tight race, apparently.
Speaker 1:With this snail mail warfare is what I call it, and it's just, it's kind of annoying. 500 years from now, people will be digging that stuff out of the ground saying like what in the heck is Project 2025? That's a good one. Just a random thought. I don't know what else to do with all this stuff. I just throw it away because I don't actively recycle, which I probably should, but I don't know. Maybe it doesn't go into the trash. It probably does. I like to think it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't go into the trash it probably does. I like to think it doesn't. It makes me feel better about throwing everything away. It's just easier. I don't know. I think that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1:It's October, fall is starting and you got Halloween coming up. I was thinking about this. I haven't done it in a while. As you get to be as you're a kid, you love dressing up. When you're an adult, there's all this pressure of trying to be funny with your costume. I was never very good at it.
Speaker 1:I was wondering. I was thinking, like, what historical figure that we have done that we've covered on this podcast? I would dress up as for Halloween, what I would think would be funny, and maybe it would be one of those. That one assassin, the one assassin what was that guy's name? The guy who assassinated Grover Cleveland. He was kind of the good, good, good toe. He's the one who wrote a poem or something, and, yeah, he seemed pretty wild, yeah, guto. So that would be a good one. I don't know how I feel like the statute of being able to joke around about that may have passed, but it'd be a little bit tough to do. Pull that off tastefully, which I probably wouldn't do. So I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1:And one thing that John and I have been talking about for a while, a figure in history that we've wanted to go over on the podcast, and I figure maybe now wouldn't be a bad time to go over it, because John hasn't really dove too deep in it. We went over it and we're about to present it, but then plans fell through or whatever, so we weren't able to do it. But I thought maybe this would be a pretty good Halloween costume. If you guys are still trying to dress up as somebody for work, if you guys have a competition on the most unique costume, or if there's a one where there's a costume where, if no one can guess it, you win a prize, maybe this one would be a good one and a pretty interesting character in history. So it's good to start a history lesson for the week, maybe, as you would call it, trying to carry this myself. It's tough. I don't have anyone to bounce off any of my jokes to, but not that much different with the person I'm telling the jokes to. It doesn't laugh back at them, so I can at least laugh at myself and see how it goes.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so there was this guy. He lived in San Francisco in the mid to late 1800s. His name is Joshua Abraham Norton. A lot of people know him as Emperor Norton. I and he was the first and only emperor of the United States of America. He was born in England and he was raised in South Africa. I think at one point England sent a bunch of their poor people down to South Africa to populate that area and protect them from other colonies in Africa, protect South Africa from being invaded or taken over from other places. So they think his family may have been sent down to South Africa, for, for that, I think it's around 1820.
Speaker 1:Um and and so he lived. He lived there, um, in South Africa, and then immigrated to the United States, landed in San Francisco in 1849. And when he gets to San Francisco 1849, and he was gets to San Francisco in 1849, and he was actually a pretty successful commodities trader, which is somebody who invests in physical substances like oil, gold, grains, other crops, so you can figure the bimetallism debate that we talked about. Maybe this person may have had something to say about the silver or gold standard, I don't know, maybe he would have appreciated that episode more than other people. And so, yeah, so he's a commodities trader and a real estate speculator. So people say that he got to San Francisco with $40,000 in his pocket, which I mean. Sometimes you hear people say, oh, my grandfather came over here with a nickel in his pocket and he may turn it into millions. But this guy comes over 40,000, 40 Gs in his pocket and he flips that to 250 grand in like three years, say 1852. So he's living pretty large in 1852. Pretty much one of the wealthier people of the time period. 250 grand back then must have been a lot of money. I would guess it's a lot of money now. So yeah, I would assume it's a lot of money. It was a lot of money. He was living large and in charge. But then came 1852.
Speaker 1:There was a rice shortage that was based because of China. China had a famine so they banned the export of rice, so it caused the price of rice to go from $0.04 a pound to $0.36 a pound. So Emperor Norton's thinking oh man, all these people I live in San Francisco Rice-a-roni, the San Francisco treat Rice must play a big part of the culture of San Francisco, I guess. I guess that's a pretty fairly large Asian population. So maybe that's why, or maybe it was just hey, he saw potential to make some money, decided to short the market, potential to make some money, decided to short the market. Which shorting the market? I'm not really sure. I saw the movie the Big Short about the housing market, kind of understand it.
Speaker 1:This is a little bit more straightforward. He figured there's a ship from Peru coming full of rice, chock full of rice, bought the whole shipload, 200,000 pounds. He bought that for 25 grand, which is like 12.5 cents a pound. You do the math, you flip that right away, go from 12.5 cents, sell that for 30 cents. You're more than doubling your money. All you got to do is sell 200,000 pounds of rice, which I don't know. Maybe that would have been easy, I'm not sure. But unfortunately to him, what he didn't know was that there were also going to be more Peruvian ships arriving at the same time, loaded up with the same rice. So much so that the price actually dropped from $0.36 down to $0.03 a pound. That means it was even After this. It was cheaper than it was to start.
Speaker 1:So he took a bit of a bath on this and tried to avoid the rice contract, saying that the dealer misled him about the quality of the rice, spent two years of litigation, went all the way up to the Supreme Court of California. He actually won in the lower courts, but the Supreme Court told him uh-uh, you don't win. And in 1854, he officially lost the litigation and then by 1856, he filed for insolvency and then by 1856, he filed for insolvency. So you figure, he goes from being really rich to really poor in a matter of two years. I guess four years, insolvency in four years, and that might be enough to that will make someone go postal.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine so things weren't looking too good for Edward Norton. So when things don't look good for you, I mean, what is there to do? You can either wallow around in your own defeat and be poor and live below the quality of life, or you can say, hey, why don't I just start running the country? Say that I'm running the country, create a job for yourself. Say, hey, you know what, I'm going to be Emperor of the United States. I don't like how things are going around here and I'm going to just declare myself to be Emperor. And what's anyone going to say about it? It's probably happened before, you think, in the history of the world. Somebody just like hey, you know what? I'm just going to say that I'm the leader of something and get a couple people to bite on it, and hey, next thing, you know, you're feeling pretty good. One person I think of maybe.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know I don't know if anyone's read up on l ron hubbard, the scientologist guy, but it kind of seemed like that. He's like, you know, I think he was from a modest background, I don't think he was as insolvent, maybe as Mr Norton was here, but I always just felt like he was like yeah, you know what? I'm just gonna start a religion. You get enough people to follow, get some money, I'll be able to live pretty good. So I get the same kind of vibe from this Mr Norton guy. And so, yeah, in September 1859, he sends a letter to the San Francisco Daily Bulletin where he basically said I'm proclaiming myself as the emperor of the country and I'm ordering all the representatives of the other states of the Union to come out here to musical hall on February, february 1st, and start fixing some, some of these laws. Let's start, let's fix the government. You know, meet me over here and, and you know, we'll get everything figured out.
Speaker 1:No one really listened to this guy. Unfortunately, or fortunately, however you may say, and um, or fortunately, however you may say, and yeah. So, even though no one listened to him, he just kept going, he went through, he kept just he kind of kept making proclamations, kind of didn't let anyone get in his way, and just I figure it's one of those things, fake it till you make it, I'm just going to keep. I'm the emperor, no one can tell me otherwise. Emperor is a pretty high rank of government, I would say. So I think you figure, just hey, I'm the emperor, I can do what I want. He's going to keep going. So a couple other proclamations.
Speaker 1:He made October 12, 1859, he made October 12, 1859, he formally abolished the United States Congress and to the point where January 1860, so a couple months later, he summoned the US, the army, to depose of the elected officials of US Congress because they were in violation of the imperial edict by continuing business as planned in Congress. So he basically says I'm an emperor, and because I'm saying that I'm an emperor, congress is no more. Dissolve Congress, I'm going to take over now, don't worry about it, everybody, just come out to San Francisco, we'll get this all figured out, we'll be good to go. And then when everybody ignored him and he was all like I guess he was all upset about that. A couple months later he says I'm going to get the army to do it. You know these guys are now, think, continuing running Congress and running the government without me involved. So I'm going to tell the army to go arrest them.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering if anybody actually listened to him. Could you imagine like some guy from the army just shows up at the White House like, hey, I'm here to arrest you guys? Emperor Norton from San Francisco sent me so he's trying to fix everything over in California while things were going a little haywire over here with the Civil War. So I don't know, maybe he had something figured out there. A couple things he did weren't actually crazy. A couple of things he did weren't actually crazy. A couple of things that he said. He actually called for the development of a League of Nations, similar to what our boy Woodrow Wilson tried to set forth in the 14 points, although some people maybe present, company excluded, in other words, a certain person who may not be present on the podcast that normally is may also think that that is crazy, but that was listed in Wikipedia as something that wasn't crazy, so I'm going to go with it. He forbade any conflict between religions. That's pretty good.
Speaker 1:And he called for the construction of a bridge from Oakland to San Francisco the only thing I can think of with that is maybe he was just sick of the traffic. He had to get from A to B and he wasn't getting anywhere, so he was looking out for the rest of the people by trying to get a bridge built and ultimately it was built. San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge was built and since it's been built there have been a lot of people who have been trying to get the name of the bridge to be the Emperor Norton Bridge, but to no avail. It's still, I believe, called the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. Haven't been across that one, but I guess my guess is it connects San Francisco with Oakland or just goes over what's called the Oakland Bay. Haven't been across that one, but I guess my guess is it connects San Francisco with Oakland or just goes over what's called the Oakland Bay. I've never been there, so I assume those are both things.
Speaker 1:How he made these proclamations he would just write letters to the local newspapers and they would post them. It was kind of like a whole thing. They just kind of embraced this as kind of. At one point I'm thinking, is this guy for real? But then, as I did more research, it was kind of like the people of San Francisco just kind of embraced this guy, being kind of a weirdo, but they liked it, it was entertaining to them, so they would post all this stuff and especially the Oakland Bay Bridge.
Speaker 1:I live in the Philadelphia area and if someone were to post something anybody was to post some law to improve the traffic around here I think that might get some traction on the local news maybe now, but in reality this guy was pretty wild. He's a pretty crazy guy. He spent his days, quoteunquote, expecting the streets, spending time in the parks and libraries, so basically he was homeless. It seems like he was walking the streets, inspecting the streets. He was commenting on the integrity of sidewalks and kind of just trying to be. I like to think of it as, like you know, have you ever called anybody like, oh, that guy is walking around, like he's the mayor of the place. So I feel like this was like he was kind of the self-proclaimed, like he was running the show and everyone was listening to this guy.
Speaker 1:He wore a uniform that was second-handed to him by army officers wore a beaver hat with peacock or ostrich feathers, a walking stick and umbrella. So that's where I'm getting to. Pretty good costume Wear a Civil War era army uniform with a beaver hat, some feathers in it, boom Easy Halloween costume. He was arrested in 1867. And they wanted to involuntarily commit him for a mental disorder. But all the citizens of San Francisco got all upset and he got released and the police actually apologized to him for arresting him and after this arrest the San Francisco police officers would salute him in the street. So yeah, I mean, the 1870 US Census actually listed Norton's occupation as emperor, which you would think. Oh, I guess he was validated. But it also notes that he's insane. So a little bit of A little up, a little down, but yeah, it was pretty cool.
Speaker 1:He issued his own money with his name on it. Some people would accept it. I think it was more of a charity thing. You print out your own money. I think about Parks and Recreation If you ever have seen that show where John Ralphio and Tom Haverford start their business Entertainment 720, and put their names on the faces or in Always Sunny in Philadelphia, when they created Patty's Box to try to stir up the economy, people accepted it More like a coupon that you write for yourself. The notes were between $0.50 and $ and 10.
Speaker 1:He was in love with queen victoria of england. He wrote letters to her suggesting that they should marry to strengthen their nations, but the queen never responded. But lucky for me, I have chat gpt um and john's favorite, so he would be proud of me. I'll read it to you here. I'll do my best. Queen Victoria impression. Dear Emperor Norton, what a splendid surprise to receive your proposal. I must say your offer has brought me more joy in a particularly well-brewed pot of tea, though I fear I have never been one to say yes to a proposal quite so unexpectedly as the self-proclaimed emperor of the United States your title is as unique as your reign and I must admit it has piqued my curiosity.
Speaker 1:However, marrying a man who rules from afar seems like it would require a rather extensive travel budget, not to mention an arsenal of fancy hats to impress the diplomatic crowd. Budget, not to mention an arsenal of fancy hats to impress the diplomatic crowd. I can't help but wonder how our wedding would be received. A queen and an emperor unite? Will there be corgis at the ceremony, or shall we invite your collection of extraordinary pigeons instead? The royal gossip would be positively delighted, though my advisors might have a fit. While I do appreciate your imaginative spirit and your dedication to the title you've bestowed upon yourself, I must graciously decline your offer. My responsibilities as queen keep me quite busy, and it would be difficult to explain to my subjects why I'd be spending my afternoons conferring with an emperor about the best way to serve scones. Thank you for your laughter and your proposal has brought me. May your reign be filled with whimsical adventures and a delightful proclamations. Yours with the fondest regards. Victoria R. Now I don't know. I don't want to speak for Emperor Norton, but I think if he would have gotten that as a response, he might have gone a little bit deeper into insanity. She really put the screws to him in this letter, even though it's fictitious. Maybe that is how she would have said it If she said stuff about her advisors having a fit. All you're thinking about is best ways to serve scones. Having it fit All you're thinking about is best ways to serve scones. That your proposal made her laugh. I mean, those have just been heartbreaking for him. So maybe we're lucky that she didn't respond, because it could have created quite the international stir there.
Speaker 1:Also, a bit of an editor's note as I read through this letter again, I couldn't help but realize that some of her excuses were the travel she didn't have the budget for travel to visit with him or she's too busy as the queen. There's all these things that you know. You got to give him more credit than that. I mean, that's a pretty good cop-out, pretty realistic way for someone to avoid just straight up turning them down, thinking that you're crazy, like she could have just said and I know this letter is fictitious, but I'm just thinking like she could have responded back like dude, you're crazy, I'm an actual queen and I can't be seen, you know, around you. Maybe that would have been a better thing than ignoring him, because then he never had anyone tell him the truth. They're like dude, you're nuts, and maybe if it would have came from Queen Victoria, maybe he would have been able to clean up his act and pick himself up by the bootstraps and get his stuff back in order. Bootstraps and get his stuff back in order.
Speaker 1:So unfortunately he died on January 8th 1880 at the age of 61, 62, 60. I mean, who really knows? He collapsed in the street, I guess, and no one was there to revive him or anything, and he died on the sidewalk. I believe he died in complete poverty. He had five or six bucks in his pocket and one gold coin that was worth maybe $2.50 at home, so he's worth eight. He came to the country. It's the opposite of the American dream you come to the country with a nickel in your pocket, turn into millions. He came to the country with $40,000 in 1849 and died with maybe $8.
Speaker 1:So not the best, not the best, but hey, you know what Sounds like he had fun doing it and who knows how many of his Emperor Norton bucks he had. So I guess he was doing okay for himself. Emperor Norton Bucks he had, so I guess he was doing okay for himself. Also found his house was a fake telegram from the Tsar Alexander of Russia congratulating him on his forthcoming marriage to Queen Victoria. This guy is living in a fantasy world, but hey, he was having fun. You kind of think about it. What harm is it If it's reality to you? Hey, who knows? So he lived his life thinking he was the emperor of the United States, king of Hawaii, was like, okay, he had one person following him. So, like I said, you only need one. He had at least one person. He had the whole city of San Francisco, the police saluting him, the whole city was all over him. They all loved him. The fan favorite. 10,000 people came to his viewing before his funeral. I guess you would consider him a folk hero in San Francisco. I don't know if many people I would think maybe people from San Francisco might know who he is. Nobody over here does.
Speaker 1:I don't know if he's taught in history classes now I was just talking to my nephew today. He's in 7th grade and he's starting to learn American history. So I said, oh, that's cool, what are you learning about? And he said the Ice Age. I'm like the Ice Age. How is that that anything? How does that have to do with american history and the ice age? I don't know, the ice age would be earth science. I mean, I guess maybe you need to learn a little bit about the, the uh, ice age, and I guess he's talking about the bering strait, I think, and the bridge that was Is that what it is? The bridge that at one point connected Russia to Alaska and that's how the people came over from there to populate North America. So maybe that's where he's coming from. It's a stretch, but yeah, so they might be too busy teaching about the Ice Age than Emperor Norton, unfortunately. They might be too busy teaching about the ice age than emperor Norton, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Um, or anybody like this. But um, pretty fun, I mean I, you know, when I first like kind of what I, when I first heard about it, the initial thought that I have is like this guy was for real and he was an actual political figure and he just decided to do that. But as I read more and more, I kind of I realized that he's more of some crazy guy roaming the streets of San Francisco and the people from San Francisco just embraced him and looked out for him, the people who accepted his money for food and restaurants. They're just like. I'll give him a break. I think he's just like a town idiot and I think people just liked him for it. He was harmless as long as he wasn't doing any harm, which I don't think he really did at any point and I think people just liked him for it Harmless as long as he wasn't doing any harm, which I don't think he really did at any point. I think he was. They liked him.
Speaker 1:Reminds me of growing up in a local mall near me. There was this homeless guy who lived in the mall. Everybody knew about this homeless guy and he had this shanty built in the woods right across the street from this mall and he would walk through the mall and I guess when he would get enough money he would go and get a coffee or anything. Everyone knew about this guy and he was super homeless but harmless. From all reports he was in the news In the local news.
Speaker 1:I remember at one point, I think, they were going to In this wooded area that he was living. They were either going to develop it or the authorities caught wind of it and they were going to force him to move and everyone was like no, no, no, he should be able to stay. He should be able to live in a shanty in the woods near the mall. He's not harming anybody, which is true. But I the woods near the mall, he's not harming anybody, which is true. But I guess now you think about it. Maybe you have a GoFundMe account for him. Maybe get him an apartment or something. Maybe clean him up, get him a job, I don't know. But yeah, it kind of reminded me of him.
Speaker 1:One of those situations where what's not to like about him? He's just minding his own business. It's pretty wild, but take the bull by the horns. That's what Emperor Norton did. Maybe we can all learn a little bit from him. You got to feel for him a little bit. You know you lose that money like that. You think you're going to be making out something good. Then a couple of Peruvians pull the wool over your eyes Take 25 G's from you. They flipped the switch. He was trying to corner the market. And then the Peruvians were like we got one, we're going to get one over on you. Fine, you want to buy this for 12 cents a piece? Sure, go ahead. We're going to send four more ships full of rice.
Speaker 1:So I was wondering, you know, I mean I don't know Rice-a-roni, the San Francisco treat, I wonder if there has anything to do with Emperor Norton. I feel like national bohemian beer that's in Maryland. From what my dad tells me, every can of that had the story of the Maryland blue crab. Maybe rice-a-roni, every box should have a little story of Emperor Norton. Or, hey, anyone trying to get into the rice business, maybe you make it Emperor Norton's Rice. Somebody might buy that. That'd be kind of cool. Rest in peace, emperor Norton. I hope somebody here might want to dress up for him as Halloween. Like I said, just get a Civil War army uniform, throw a beaver hat on there and you'd be good to go One side, one kind of side interesting thing about him or a little side story In San Francisco during his reign I guess you would call it a 20-year reign, basically, if you want to call it that there were these two dogs, these famous dogs.
Speaker 1:San Francisco seemed to be a pretty crazy I guess not much different than maybe what you would consider it now, or like when hippies were there, just a more of a counterculture type situation, kind of embracing the weird. Back then stray dogs were a really big problem in the cities of the United States, to the point where, in the 1840s apparently, in Los Angeles, dogs outnumbered people two to one, which is crazy. They would be poisoned, trapped, killed just trying to get rid of all these stray dogs. Peta would have a freaking fit at this point. But I guess if you figure these shelters, I mean it's not quite that, but there's a lot of dogs in these shelters. So it happens these dogs are kind of all over if you don't control them.
Speaker 1:But anyway, if a dog turned out to be like a good ratter, like it could kill rats, people would mark these dogs as these good ratters and control the rat problem. So it was like they were earning their keep. I guess you could say being able to live out in the being stray dogs, as long as you can take care of the rats. Because I guess there's one thing worse than a bunch of stray dogs, it's a bunch of dirty rats running around the city. So there were these two dogs in San Francisco. Their names were Bummer and Lazarus, and they were Bummer, or Bummer was a Newfoundland and Lazarus was some unknown breed. They were like the best ratters in San Francisco. So they were like these heroes, these hero dogs People love these dogs and they kind of teamed up. They were like boys and they were just. They would roam the streets, kill rats, and just, everyone loved them. At one point they finished they killed 85 rats in 20 minutes apparently, which is that's some good numbers there. And it just so happened that around this time Emperor Norton was roaming the streets too, and I feel like they're all kindred spirits and there were reports that they were always in the company of each other and the dogs would walk around with Emperor Norton. So it was kind of a team.
Speaker 1:And there was this cartoon that I found online. I was posted, I guess, in a newspaper, and there was a cartoon. It was a cartoon and it was. The cartoon was Emperor Norton was at this table with a spread of food and he was eating and the dogs were sitting there like dogs do, like trying to beg for food and stuff, and the title of the cartoon was the three bummers. So I guess it's. Not only are these stray dogs a bummer, but also this town idiot who thinks he's the emperor of the United States is also a bummer, which is a bummer, because that would basically be calling Norton a sad sack. Pretty funny, I don't know, I thought that was funny. I wanted to add that. So, emperor Norton, we speak your name and I think there should be a movie and people should know about this person. I think that's pretty much it. I wanted to send them off. Send Emperor Norton off with a little song here, just to pay my respects to the man.
Speaker 2:All right, here we go. There's a hero. If you look inside your heart, you don't have to be afraid of what you are. If you reach into your soul and the sorrow that you know will melt away. And then a hero comes along, emperor Norton, with the strength to carry on. You cast your fears aside and you know you can survive. So when you feel like hope is gone, look inside you and be strong, and you'll finally see the truth that a hero lies in you.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. So if you're ever going and crossing the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, point your finger up in the sky for one Emperor Norton, because without him the bridge probably would have still been built. But you never know, and that's it. That's it for this episode. I don't know, it's pretty dry, I assume, but I wanted to get it out there. Let me see if I can get John on the phone here. Hold on, yeah, hey, john, it's matt. I got you here on the podcast. I did an. I did a solo episode no, no, you didn't yeah you're on the air, dude.
Speaker 1:oh, thanks, I'm happy to be a special guest. Yeah, how you? How you feeling, feeling so. So, yeah, any of our fans out there, I'm getting over a bit of a. I don't know. It might be a sinus infection, a few allergies, a head cold. I mean just all the above. You know I just started a new job in Baltimore, working in the historic Inner Harbor. Yeah, it's a bit of an adjustment. Sorry, fans, I know I've been a little wayward with you. Maybe you got something from the bay.
Speaker 1:The harbor Was part of your first day of the job. To take a dive in the harbor In order for me to meet my probationary period. Yes, I must dive in the harbor at some point, or just drink a glass full of the water straight from there. Yes, it'll happen the last day of my initiation. It will be sure to happen. Well, yeah, congratulations. I kind of went through the whole You're washing hands that we were talking about earlier and how that's part of the issue that you wash your hands too much Went over that a little bit. But really, what I did, I hope you're okay with it. I know you haven't been, we've been talking about it for a while, but I just did the old summary on our boy, emperor Norton, solo yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah so you got any final thoughts, just anything. I kind of went through the whole thing. I read a letter, a response, that A fictitious response from Queen Victoria to his request to marry her. So that'll be fun for you to listen to. I figure that just kind of bringing the spirit of you in there. But you got anything to say. Any thoughts on Emperor Norton off the top?
Speaker 2:of your head.
Speaker 1:Well, I just wonder if James Buchanan had listened to any of his advice. Maybe, I don't know Maybe the Civil War could have been diverted. There's kind of talk of what could have been. I think him taking on the idea of being the protector of Mexico was a bold step in his platform.
Speaker 1:Yeah we didn't get to that point. We didn't get to there because they had that boze. We didn't get to that point, we didn't get to there because they had that bozo. France invaded Mexico because Mexico couldn't repay them for their help in their civil war. Correct, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah so.
Speaker 1:Napoleon III decided to take extra measures. Decided to take extra measures? Yeah, so they sent some clown from the monarchy over there to sit there.
Speaker 1:Austria-Hungary from. Maximilian I is who they ended up agreeing to send. He came from Austria-Hungary. Yeah, he ended up getting killed. I don't know if we ever talked about it. We might have talked about him on the podcast. He ended up getting killed just because, right, yeah, he kind of got shafted.
Speaker 1:Everyone was like, yeah, we feel bad for him, but like he was deposed, and they're like, well, we have to kill him, even if he himself is not a bad guy. It's like we just we brought back our republic, like we deposed the monarchy, we have to kill the guy, like it's just for show at the very least. And then, yeah, they had his corpse on display and for for any of our fans, if you just type in Maximilian into Google Maximilian I in funeral procession or whatever, it'll show pictures of him and he's just rotting. His corpse is just rotting. Yeah, he's on display in a court somewhere, yeah, so, anyway. So they had Maximilian.
Speaker 1:France sent him from Austria, hungary, whatever. So then I guess the people of Mexico felt as though they didn't have a protector, or there was no protector assigned, like looking out for the people of Mexico. So Emperor Norton took it upon himself to add that to his titles. Correct. Yeah, I mean the selfless guy all around. You know he wanted to do a really good thing. I'm sure you talked about it and I can't look forward to hearing more about it. But about the rice, you know he wanted to feed people. He really wanted it Well.
Speaker 1:I think maybe he learned his lesson from trying to take advantage of people While trying to corner a market that he obviously knew nothing about yeah, usually never a good. So it's kind of hard to corner a market in general, but it's even harder to corner one you literally know zero about. But he tried. He gave it his best shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah he was a good guy. I think he was just Something like that happens, a couple of Peruvians take advantage of you like that, and that's enough to piss off the Pope, and I think that's really what happened to him. And he just cracked and then just tried to make the most of it. Tried to run for governor Didn't work. Then he just tried to take down the American government from the top. He just went right to the top and that's where I got from. Yeah, did you mention the restaurant? There's still a bar named after him in San Francisco. No, no, there's still a bar named after him. Yeah, there's still a place named after him.
Speaker 2:Well, I was talking about how he had that.
Speaker 1:He had that money and he had the money and some people would take it, some people wouldn't. I feel like it was just charity. He was just a charity case and I think people just.
Speaker 1:He was just a charity case and I think people just kind of like he was harmless and they let him go Bit of an eccentric and that's kind of that's been San Francisco's bag for a long time. Some would say so yeah, he's definitely a man of his time and place and I think all of us and all of our fans can, uh, we can say we can wish them the best. Uh, yeah, I said hey, I told him. If you guys are, I said if you guys ever find yourself driving over the San Francisco Oakland Bay bridge, you know, put a finger up in the air for Edward Norton or Emperor Norton, because Might not have been built without him and Edward Norton, and Edward Norton and some good movies.
Speaker 1:Let's see. Yeah, so, okay. Yeah. So, john, the way that I was tying this in because we try to tie things into current times or whatever the way that I timed it in and how I got into the situation was Halloween's coming up. Right, it's October, halloween's coming up.
Speaker 1:So I was thinking maybe with your new job, maybe you have something like this, maybe there's some competition at work where you're trying to, you have to dress up, best costume wins, most unique costume wins, or something like that. Maybe you want to teach somebody something while you're dressed up. So I thought Edward, I thought Emperor Norton. I wonder if Edward Norton's named after him. You know what I mean. I think that's actually the next logical question to ask, because you've only said his name five times. I did, I did it a couple of times and, honestly, when I was filling out, when I was going through ChatGPT to get that response from Queen Victoria at first, I wrote write a response to Edward Norton's letter and it came up and it was like oh, you're an actor, like what? But anyway, my thought was One thing that I thought of is, of all the people that come to your mind that we've talked about on the podcast, any historical figure.
Speaker 1:Who would you want to dress up as for Halloween the most? Who would you want to dress up as for Halloween the most? Who would you do? I mean, the Jack of my heart is Tedus Caciusco, of course, of course, that would be yours, my Jack of hearts, whether he was a diamond or not. Yes, tedus Caciusco would be my number one Halloween choice. Okay, and yourself. I had said I forget his first name, but Gato, gato, gato, gato, gato.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it'd be tough to and Sean Garfield.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was wondering, you know, and this will be a little bit of a repeat for the fans, but I was just kind of wondering if, um, if, uh, like you could do that tastefully, if, like, the you know statute of that being funny has passed yet or not. Well, I think, just the shenanigans he pulled after the fact not the fact that he shot a president, but how he sang a song up to the gallows and how he had that really sweet prayer that he wrote, just the idea of getting a job. I expected a federal job and an ambassadorship in France, because you know I'm and you know it's funny, you bring that up because you know he could have just pulled an Emperor Norton, but he didn't. He tried to. Maybe he should have done that. He should have just said hey, you know what, I'm the ambassador of France. Move to France and just say I'm now. I wonder if he met emperor nor, and emperor normer says you want to?
Speaker 1:Here's, I got a great idea for you go to this train station at this hour, you won't miss. The president should be there. Just just talk to him. Just go talk to him. And maybe something was lost in translation. Yeah, oh, man, but yeah, so, yeah, all right, there you go. That's, that's john's thing. And hey, I guess, um, hopefully we'll give a little bit of a tease to the next episode. Um, john and I made another trip to philadelphia and we um did some sightseeing. I'll just leave it at that. So you know, I think our next episode that we're together, hopefully john's feeling better and we can get back to, back to the old uh, weekly or bi-weekly, you know, you know, hopefully at least bi-weekly, is it bi-weekly?
Speaker 2:it's bi-weekly, every other week I would like every week every week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're gonna play it by ear. Fans, look, I miss it. I feel lousy. You'll probably hear it in my voice even coming through the uh, you know the phone speaker, you know as a guest caller. But I want to clear. I want to bring my best. I want to bring my 100% for you all. So thank you for being patient with us. Thank you to my co-host, matt, for taking the initiative and deciding to put on a solo episode without my knowing. I appreciate the foresight and the go-getter-ness.
Speaker 1:Well, you know like I started off, I saw that bill for $40-some for my Buzzsprout server and I thought to myself I'm not getting anything for that, so I might as well just put something out there for the fans. More for me, more for the fans, but also for me. Well, it, more for the fans, but also for me. I think it's for us. We got to start. We're happy to bring our fans along with the journey. We love you guys, but at the end of the day, we love doing this, we love talking history, we love talking different perspectives and, yeah, we really hope you guys stay with us. Stick with us. Maybe we'll do another OJ episode soon and, yeah, we really hope you guys stay with us. Stick with us. Cool, well said, maybe we'll do another OJ episode soon, because that seems to be the big.
Speaker 1:I was hanging out with Emily M earlier today and she was asking when we're going to be ready to have her back on. Okay, well, then there you go, fans. You already know what's coming ahead. Yeah, so all right. Well, john, I appreciate it. I'm surprised you answered, but I'm glad you did, because I was uh, just just, uh, 56 minutes in by myself. Thank you for deciding. Have you called anybody? Any other fan?
Speaker 2:no, no one else would answer.
Speaker 1:Let's be honest, okay. Well, if I'm being totally frank, I matt's calling me at time of the week, so the phillies were in game two in their series with the new york nets. I thought he was calling to say hey, did you see that ending? It was a classic, instant classic. And, uh, now I'm a little shocked that I'm on air now. You know what? I for my own history podcast. I'm not even in the studio, I'm literally calling in from a phone. Well, I'll tell you, I was recording this podcast as the innings 8 and 9 went on, because every time I stopped watching I took a shower. The Phillies were down. I took a shower. I came out, the Phillies were tied. I started watching it again. The Mets got back up ahead. You took a shower, the Phillies were down.
Speaker 2:I took a shower.
Speaker 1:I came out, the Phillies were tied. I started watching it again. The Mets got back up ahead. You took another shower. No, I just said to myself I am not going to watch the rest of this game. I'm a little superstitious like that. It sounds to me. I don't even know how it finished yet, but it sounds to me like it was a good call. I to me like it was a good call. So I finished. It was an extraordinary call I was getting. You were wanting the Phillies to pull it out. Yes, and I was, so I'm happy for that. My phone's been getting blown up the whole time.
Speaker 1:It did distract me a little bit through the episode, but I think I went through it and yeah, so I'm gonna have to catch up on that once I get off of here. But I just wanted to thank John for hopping in and you know, I just wanted to get this out, see how it goes. It's going to be wonderful. Nothing against you, john, I was just. I was itching and I just I knew you were feeling bad and I didn't know if we were going to be able to get this Edward Norton, this Emperor Norton episode out, and I know't know if we were going to be able to get this Edward Norton, this Emperor Norton episode out. And I know you're antsy to talk about our trip to Philadelphia, so I figure you know why don't I just do this in the meantime, and then hopefully, when we come back we'll come out, you know throwing fists yeah.
Speaker 1:Talk. You know Philly's baseball history, something you know. Maybe, Maybe you know Philly's baseball history, something you know, maybe. Maybe you know we'll just play. We'll play it by ear. So, fans again. We're always happy to hear your input and your suggestions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what fans the text line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, shoot us a text, and you know what I was thinking is shoot us a text and let us know a couple things about Halloween. You know what's your favorite costume, what person from American history that we've covered on here, or any history that you would want to dress up.
Speaker 1:as for a costume competition, Choose a text and let us know and we'll read your answers out loud in the next episode. And if you do, matt and I will share with you our new favorite mustard. That's the trade-off. It's a big one, that's a tease. Our new favorite mustard, that's the trade-off.
Speaker 2:It's a big one.
Speaker 1:That's a tease. That's a tease, that's a big old tease for our next episode. Thanks for hanging with us, matt. Thanks for giving me a call, thanks for letting me be on the show. I didn't feel right not having a whole episode without you, of course.
Speaker 2:It didn't feel right.
Speaker 1:I appreciate the call All right, john. Well, hey, you feel better and we'll see you on the next one. All right, sounds good, you got anything to leave the listeners.
Speaker 1:You know it. Stay curious, all right, see you, john, see you guys. All right fans. Well, that was pretty cool. I didn't think he was actually going to answer, so glad we got it. We got a little bit of john in there, probably the most exciting part of the podcast. I think I drug on a little bit, um, talking about emperor norton, but uh, he was pretty big, he was a pretty, uh, interesting guy and I think john pretty got brought a pretty good perspective to tie everything in. So, um, I guess that's it. We'll see you on the next one, as they say, or hear you on the next one, hopefully. Don't forget to follow us on Twitter at at Nailing History. Shoot us an email at nailinghistorypod at gmailcom or, as always, hit that link in the description and send us the old text message All right guys, have a good one, come on and we say bye-bye. Sorry, fans, I messed that up.