Nailing History
Introducing "Nailing History," the podcast where two friends attempt to nail down historical facts like they're trying to assemble IKEA furniture without the manual. Join Matt and Jon (or Jon and Matt) as they stumble through the annals of time, armed with Wikipedia, Chat GPT, and a sense of reckless abandon.
In each episode, Matt and Jon pick a historical event that tickles their curiosity (and occasionally their funny bone) and dissect it like a frog in biology class—except they're the frogs, and they have no idea what they're doing. From ancient civilizations to modern mishaps, they cover it all with the finesse of a bull in a china shop.
But wait, there's more! In between butchering historical names and dates, Matt and Jon take a break to explore the intersection of history and pop culture. Ever wondered if Cleopatra would have been a TikTok sensation? Yeah, neither have they, but that won't stop them from imagining it in excruciating detail.
So grab your popcorn and prepare to laugh, cringe, and possibly learn something (though don't hold your breath). With Matt and Jon leading the charge, "Nailing History" is the only podcast where you're guaranteed to leave scratching your head and questioning everything you thought you knew about the past. After all, who needs a PhD when you've got two clueless buddies and a microphone?
Nailing History
127 From Grover Cleveland to Modern Parallels
Ever had a perfectly innocent morning vote turn into a full-blown drama series? Well, grab your popcorn, because Jon's story starts like a Hallmark movie—he breezes into the polling station, votes early, feels powerful, maybe even a little heroic, basking in the glow of democracy. Meanwhile, Matt's day takes a sharp left turn—he finds out his voter registration is as active as a sloth on a lazy Sunday. No vote for you, buddy! It's a plot twist so shocking, it might as well have been written by M. Night Shyamalan.
As we dive into the chaos, we start questioning the very fabric of our voting systems—how reliable is anything, really? Can we even trust a website that’s 80% "are you sure you're not a robot?" After that, we have some fun with the bizarre legalities of photographing your ballot. Is it a secret snapshot or a crime scene photo? Who knows! And just when you think things can't get any weirder, we play out a fantasy where Kamala Harris is president and Donald Trump is her Vice President. Yes, that Donald Trump. It's like pairing a chainsaw with a feather duster—oddly fascinating, but you wouldn’t trust them to put together Ikea furniture.
In the midst of all this, we also take a deep dive into historical oddities, like Grover Cleveland—yes, that Grover Cleveland—who served two non-consecutive terms, because apparently, that’s a thing now.
We then take a serious turn (don’t worry, we’ll bring the laughs back soon), examining the economic drama of the late 19th century through Grover Cleveland’s facepalm-worthy handling of the Panic of 1893. And because no historical rabbit hole is complete without a modern twist, we throw in comparisons to today's figures like Trump and Elon Musk. Because who doesn’t want to add a little chaos to their morning?
And finally, we wrap up with a moment of reflection on the terror of the 2002 Beltway sniper attacks, remembering how fear turned into courage as Washington DC held its breath. It’s a somber note, but hey, we’ve covered a lot of ground.
Join us for this rollercoaster ride of politics, history, and chaos. You’ll laugh, you’ll think, you’ll probably wonder if we’ve lost our minds—but that’s just part of the fun.
You ready, let's roll with it.
Speaker 2:Hey fans, I think I went a little too early with that intro and the countdown didn't start yet, so welcome to another installment of the Nailing History podcast. The post first. Like I know, snl talks about it, it's our post election episode.
Speaker 1:We finally made it here, fans, and we are stoked, happy to have you back. Welcome, great episode. They should be happy to have us back. I think we all need a little humility in our lives after this election season.
Speaker 2:Well, fans, you should be happy to have us back. Touche, we're happy you're listening matt and I are happy to be back with you yeah, um, how was uh voting, john, did you get out there?
Speaker 1:voting was good. Yeah, so I polls opened. For any of you out there who voted the day of. They did well. A lot of people were doing early voting. A lot of people were doing mailing in.
Speaker 2:This isn't your grandpa's election anymore.
Speaker 1:Nope, not grandpa's election. So there's multiple ways of doing it, but I decided to wake up at the crack of dawn and, yeah, I got there. I think I got to my polling station at 20 to 7, like 20 minutes before the polls opened, and I was the third person in line. And then, yeah, I got in, got out and it was great. How was yours?
Speaker 2:I had an experience. Actually, I don't know if I've told you this. I think I might be keeping it just to get it out there. Most people I think probably most of our fans have told this too. Personally, I don't know if I've told you, though, I had an experience at the polls. I was unaware what happened. I think you might know that and the fans might not know. I don't know if we talked about this on air, but I had checked.
Speaker 2:So all these commercials, these election polls, all these election commercials one of them was like make sure you go out and vote because your voting history is public record. So you don't want your friends and family to see that you don't vote. So I was curious when they say voting history, is it like how often you vote? Do you know who they voted for? I didn't know exactly what all was on the record. So I'm like, let me look it up. So I looked it up, and I looked up my voting record, and my voting record said that my registration status was inactive, which was strange, because I just thought that was strange. I actually had recently updated my registration for the 2020 election. I updated my party, I think, and maybe. Yeah, well, I had to do my address a little bit before that and I think I updated my party and then I voted in 2020.
Speaker 2:I think I voted in 2022. But I was like I don't know why my status would be inactive. I I've googled it and apparently, if you don't vote within five years, your voter, your registration status, automatically goes inactive. Okay, but you can still vote. That's what this website said. So I was like, okay, that's weird, because I did vote. So I mean, I'm not going to. Does it just re-trigger?
Speaker 3:your vote.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to conspirize. Is that a word, I'm not going to conspirize? But it sure sounds like my vote hasn't been counted in the last couple elections. But neither here nor there counted in the last couple elections, but neither here nor there.
Speaker 2:I go to the polling by polling place and I get up to the. I get up to the desk where they have the book and the old people are you know who volunteer are there and she's like what's your name? And I was like I told my name and I saw my last name, like I always do. And then I she opens the book, she flips to it and in like watermark in my box where my name is, it says inactive. And I'm like, oh, so this? So I'm like waiting in line. I didn't wait super long in line, but there was a line in front of me and there was a line behind me, so there were a lot of people. There were decent amount of people in my polling place. This lady at the book goes hey, jerry, we got an inactive voter over here. Jerry, inactive, what do we do? Uh-oh, I'm like, wow, it was so humiliating. I'm like, I'm like it's hot and it was hot in there, but I could tell I was getting like flushed. I was so embarrassed. Everyone's like oh, this chooch doesn't vote.
Speaker 2:Oh man or didn't check it for this, finally decide it, finally decided to get off his butt and vote.
Speaker 1:Election of our lifetime. As they say, Every four years we live through one, and this guy didn't even have a time to check if he was an active voter or not.
Speaker 3:No, I checked.
Speaker 2:And it just so happened that the day that I checked was the day after the time where you could register or update your information so you wouldn't have been inactive.
Speaker 2:I just didn't think I had to do anything. I don't know why I was inactive. It doesn't make any sense. But then full disclosure this was the first time that I voted where in Pennsylvania. I know everyone does things differently, but in Pennsylvania you fill out bubbles. It's basically like in high school when we had the Scantron. You fill out like bubbles and base. It's basically like in high school when we had the scantron. You you fill out the bubbles in pen. I wish we had pencils, but we had pen and um, this was the first time that somebody actually helped me put the sheet in the scanner. Every other time it was just like a self service, like put your sheet in the scanner. So I'm thinking maybe I didn't do that right.
Speaker 1:It's possible in previous times and they had it and they were recording.
Speaker 2:You like this year there was a guy there was. This year there was a guy who helped me. He's like put it face down and through the scanner. He's like wait to make sure that the screen says you know your vote's been counted and then we're good to go. And I don't remember doing any of that do you remember putting it anywhere?
Speaker 1:I put it in.
Speaker 2:I put it I put I put it in the scanner, but I really think I probably put a. Maybe I put it face side up and then I just walk out of there. I mean, I want to get in and out so that I just I should shoot it through there and just leave. I think that's like impossible, though, but that thought crossed my mind once I started doing this with the, with the helper. I'm like, maybe this is why my vote hasn't counted in the last four years. Maybe that's why they were helping, because it was kind of weird. They were just like here's's your paper. Go ahead, okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't remember much drama. I mean, yeah, I was a third person in, I voted. I had to go up. There was a guy standing at the scanner but he really didn't tell me front or back, he just put it here and took it in.
Speaker 2:But I guess their rule is they can't touch it Is.
Speaker 1:But I guess their rule is they can't touch it.
Speaker 2:Is that the rule? I don't think that would help. I mean, he was kind of like putting his hands back like oh no, that's you.
Speaker 1:It's a sacred vote you got in your hands. I can't touch that I can't desecrate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just anyone out there. If your registration is inactive, you might want to check before it turns over or before. Make sure that you're active during the registration phase, even if you think you are, because you certainly don't want to show up to the polls as an inactive voter because you'll be ousted in front of everybody and then somebody like Jerry will come up to you and say you got to come with me. Then I had to walk back to another table. I had to fill out an affidavit saying that I still vote, and I'm saying like well, terry, I mean I voted. I don't understand. He's like it's not that big of a deal, just here. And I'm like sure it's not that bad. I mean I didn't think it was the time or place to start saying like what's up with my vote Not getting counted. But I was just like well, it's kind of a big deal. I don't understand why I am inactive. But he's like don't worry about it. I'm like okay, so I'm like all right, so I sign it. I'm like man, it is hot in here.
Speaker 2:We were in the basement of a Not the basement but a first floor of a nursing home. There was no air conditioning. I was like man.
Speaker 1:It's hot in here o'clock you guys are there for one day. I'm glad we're keeping our elderly in a nursing home well, I'm assuming we were in like it was like in, like the.
Speaker 2:It was like it was like in the kitchen or like the I don't know, it was weird. It was weird those places. Of course I can't vote her to school, heaven forbid. I have to go to some rink. I mean, this place was a dump, it was a dump. I'll be honest, if I'm, if you know my grandkids, if I ever have them, send me to this place.
Speaker 1:I'm jumping out the window, well, like the misda misda lady and, uh, happy gilmore well, I, yeah, I I'm sorry for your experience, but I'm happy that Jerry helped you. I'm glad.
Speaker 2:Jerry was very helpful.
Speaker 1:Thanks, jerry, you could have been more. He was sweating under the collar, literally and probably figuratively. I mean working a pole, especially in a swing state like Pennsylvania. I feel like you've got that much more pressure on you.
Speaker 2:I couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1:I know, what's happening here for the major.
Speaker 2:I couldn't imagine if it was Dude. If that happened to I'm not going to use any terms here, but if that happened to a pretty invested voter, I guess you could say or a very proud, one way or the other. I'm kind of in the middle and whatever. But if it was anyone who leans in either direction and they were hot about it, especially some who might not have thought that the 2020 election was necessarily valid if that would have happened to a staunch one of those oh man, jerry would have been in for it. You're trying to steal it again. You're trying to steal it. I know what you guys are up to. I know what you guys are up to. It does seem like Luckily he lucked out it was me, because I was like whatever.
Speaker 1:But it would have just been activated as soon as you voted. I'm sure it's like you're in done yeah, well, it is like it wasn't.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a big deal. I luckily I had checked beforehand, so I knew I was expecting. I was hoping it wasn't gonna be that bad, but I was expecting some kind of issue and uh, so luckily. But if I, if it was like somebody who's a little bit crazier than me about it and wasn't expecting it, Do you have any eats at your polling station?
Speaker 1:I don't know if places are allowed to or not, but did you get a cookie or just stickers?
Speaker 2:They had eats for the volunteers. It looks like they had a nice spread out on the table. It was weird dude. It was like a basically utility room that we were in. It was just a total dump. It was weird dude. It was like a basically utility room that we were in. It was just a total dump. It was horrible. I felt bad for those people, but that's what they get for volunteering. What are you getting out of that?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. Yeah, I was in an elementary school auditorium. I had some nice breathing room. I felt pretty good.
Speaker 2:Did you take a picture of your ballot? I certainly did. I'm always wondering if that's legal or not. I googled it. Apparently not every. It's not legal in every state to like post your ballot online and especially, I don't know, I don't know, like I guess. No, I mean, I don't think you're ever gonna like they're actually ever going to get in trouble because they don't want you using the actual ballot as an influence to vote.
Speaker 1:I saw a ton of them. I don't think anyone's going to get too up in arm about my particular ballot. I'll leave it at that. A few write-ins here and there if I'm being totally honest with our fans. Um and a lot of no's, so nothing to really write home about. It was more of a protest vote. If I'm being quite honest with you, I think I can at least tell that I'm sure you really, you really got your point across.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I'm sure everyone's like, wow, it seems like it's seen.
Speaker 1:I mean I was watching the popular vote. I mean I was following it all through election day, which I'm sure we'll get into, but I think I think they track it. I think it's actually to the vote and I think my guy is is somewhere out there. He's on the roll in maryland and some of our fans may know him.
Speaker 2:You know what I was thinking like. What if you would have done something like voted for Kamala? What if this was a thing it would never in a million years happen, although it could be a pretty funny movie? What if everybody decided to vote for Kamala for this example, for this election, kamala Harris for president and Donald Trump for vice president and that won? Would that happen?
Speaker 1:And also, I guess it would right well, I mean, I guess if it would kind of go back to the beginning, a little bit like the founding of the country. Before we voted separately for president and vice president. Just whoever got the most electoral votes was president and the second most was vice president. And yeah, they were from different parties john John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.
Speaker 2:Right, but I'm just saying would they be forced to work together? If everybody voted that way, it'd be kind of funny.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine? I don't know if you can decline like that? I mean, obviously, if you win, you won it because you've been campaigning to win with your chosen running mate, but if you're voted in in another combination with somebody else, I don't know if you can. Can you decline? Yeah?
Speaker 2:no, I didn't want to win and also like, if it was just the right end and you didn't run and you're like you won, would you be able to say like, nah, probably, I guess that would be never.
Speaker 1:I mean, there was a movie with jack lemon, and I forget the other actor's name called my fellow americans. I don't know if you've ever seen that there are're two former presidents. It came out in the 90s. Yes, you've seen it. They're on the run and one's a Democrat, one's a Republican. So basically, these two former presidents from different parties, I think they campaigned against one another in like two different campaigns One won one election, another won the other election and the third election. They both got voted out. But then I guess they came across this information, they knew some state secrets or whatever, or, and they were basically on the run. They had a like the deep state, effectively from the next term, from the next administration, kind of came after them and so these guys are end up together and they have to kind of, you know, run through the forest and they're basically just on the loose into comedy. But I remember the scene. It's not good.
Speaker 1:It's not good, but it's kind of like, I know, at the end of the film. I don't want to give a spoiler because it's such a great movie and I don't fancy gonna see it, but I remember there was a scene where they end up at like a, at a wizard of oz, like uh oh, a little bimetallism maybe.
Speaker 1:Well, not the bi-metalism wizard of oz, like dorothy, like fan club engine, like everyone's in drag dressed up as dorothy convention and one of the guys that they bump into it turns out that he's like in his real job, is like a sniper for the, for the white house, and he like saves their lives. You like shoot somebody later in the movie because they're like nice to him, and then he saves their lives and Then they end up running together At the end of the movie they run together.
Speaker 1:They're like who's president, who's vice president? Oh, we don't know. Then, basically, one tricks the other one to pick a quarter up. Then he's like oh, my fellow Americans, that's how he becomes president. Maybe that's how they would do it if Kamala and Donald were elected.
Speaker 3:That it if kamala and donald were elected. So that's exactly how it would go. It was the 90s anything was possible.
Speaker 2:The world was all of our oyster. So there were a couple things you know john and I were talking about. What can we do? I don't really want to talk too much about the election because I think everyone's kind of over it, but you know, we kind of. We just wanted to.
Speaker 1:Kind of tie into any historical events. I think we had quite a prominent moment. We had an occurrence that hasn't happened in over 150. Even a while 20, 30, 40 years, I don't know when the 130. It's only the second time it's ever happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we had Donald Trump won and he's the second president to ever win non-consecutive terms. And I always thought that I just remember in elementary school, all the presidents, the names of all the presidents and their portraits were all listed across the top of the room and I always remember looking at grover cleveland and just like man, what happened there? Like you lose, what are you doing? You're gonna run again. Like I just thought it was so absurd that somebody would do that and, uh, we got it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just great, it's just so great, but he was, he was a popular guy. He was a popular guy. He was a popular guy.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, so it got me just thinking like well, I don't know much about Grover Cleveland, so I figured just let's see what I can learn about him. Maybe there's some similarities to the elections, anything like that.
Speaker 1:Well he was as Matt had said. He was the first president to win two non-consecutive terms. But what made that particularly stand out was that he won as a Democrat at a time when Democrats were kind of seen more as the small government party and a lot of their support was in the South but there were Northern Democrats as well. But he was known before he even came into the presidency for cleaning up corruption. That was kind of his big thing. When he was governor of New York and mayor of Buffalo he would always keep his door open and whenever he had someone come into his office who was trying to have him engage in graft or some form of corruption which was definitely what happened back in his times it was pretty openly done. He made a point of kind of raising his voice and yelling at them and telling them out of their office to say, like corruption will not be happening here.
Speaker 1:In his first term in office one of the major things he ran on was kind of taking corruption out of the pension system which was developing. So a lot of former union veterans from the civil war everyone and their mother seemed to be claiming a pension, um from even injuries that weren't sustained during the war. Um, this was a time, you know. I mean nowadays, if you serve in the armed forces, you're going to get something, you know see, maybe a small pension or kind of some additional benefit. But back then it was like, you know, if you weren't actually injured, you know, you weren't going to get much. So, yeah, he made a big point of vetoing a ton of bills that came before his desk looking for pensions for these Union soldiers desk looking for pensions for these Union soldiers.
Speaker 1:He came online in the 1880s when the Republican Party was the machine that ran all politics in America. The Southern Democrats were still licking their wounds from the Civil War, but the North was effectively run by Republicans, and a lot of these Republicans were super corrupt, led by people like James Blaine, led by people like Roscoe Conkling of New York. I believe Ulysses S Grant's eight-year administration was extremely corrupt and so, by the time he comes around, no one thought a Democrat could really break in to the Republican stronghold. And he did. He was very popular. He was a leader of the Bourbon Democrats, which basically they stood for opposition to high tariffs, which is a little different to Mr Trump. They stood against free silver, inflation, imperialism, subsidies to businesses, farmers and veterans. So I mean big, small government. He was a small government guy to the core, anti-corruption In my personal opinion, one of the best presidents ever, if we're going to grade him by his oath to defend and uphold the Constitution.
Speaker 1:And yeah, he won the popular vote all three elections he was in. So he won non-consecutive terms. But in the election in between those terms he lost the Electoral College but he didn't win the popular vote. So each election he was in he won that popular vote. And uh, yeah, he was. He was a beast for sure. So I don't know how much more you want about his early days. He was a lawyer from buffalo for a while and did a lot of other stuff. He was a bachelor when he joined the white house.
Speaker 2:When he went into the white house and he married, I think it was 47 when he got married and his bride was like 21 and he knew her since she was like a baby, yeah, so, um, it's a little weird. Yeah, she was. He met her when he was a baby. When he was 27 years old he met his future wife. She was the daughter of his law partner, close friend, oscar folsom, which we'll get back to him in a bit.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, she called him uncle cleve, which is funny two things. His actual name was steven, so it's kind of funny to go by uncle cleve, which is kind of like uncle steve, but that's funny. And I think people like, maybe he didn't go by, maybe you didn't go by steven, because, like, steven cleveland is like a ridiculous name anyway, like, so, basically, he met her when he was a, when she was like a baby. Her name's francis, so francis folsom. Uh, when she turned 11, her old old man, oscar Folsom, died in a carriage accident because he was like a neurotic driver and then, with no will, prepared, like so, grover Cleveland took over their family's estate and Oscar Folsom's wife just assumed that he was going to marry the girl. So I was like, while he was running, people were like, oh, why are you single? He's like oh, I'm just waiting for my bride to grow up, which was laughed off as a joke, but then he got engaged to her and married her five days later in the White House. That's freaking creepy as heck.
Speaker 1:Well, he was president at that time, so maybe she wasn't that creeped out by it.
Speaker 2:And she was kind of hot, I think, and she was like People loved her. She was kind of the first lady to be like To reach celebrity status, I believe. Yeah, and I guess that could have to do with being married while you were in the White House, so there was probably a whole thing. I think. If a president was to get married now while they're in the White House, that would be a huge event, because people treat the presidents like kings anyway.
Speaker 2:I was just interested in like looking into the whole election and like, like I said, you know he had, he won, lost, won again, um, and I'm trying to see any similarities there. Um, but just looking into the thing, when he ran for office the first time against jamesaine, who John mentioned was the Republican candidate who was kind of known to be a corrupt person, but the Republicans so everybody has a thing to try to get the president-elect caught up in some scandal, so to say. So the Republicans tried to do that by accusing him of fathering an illegitimate child. So there was a possibility that he had fathered a child out of wedlock with some woman and that was a big deal, obviously in 1874. So everyone was like a big deal, obviously in 1874. So everyone was like, oh, you know he's a, you know he's a bad guy fathered an illegitimate, illegitimate child, um, but he was kind of like, yeah, uh, just tell him the truth. Yeah, I might have I'm not sure, though, it could either be me or it could be my old law partner, I'm not sure, just tell him the truth, whatever. And, uh, that actually helped him win the elect.
Speaker 2:People, a lot of people think that actually helped him win the election, because people kind of looked at it like, wow, some guys it's finally owning up to his nonsense. Um, their whole, the as republicans, as republicans, um, so the way that they did it in the election, the whole, like you know, trying to burn him, republicans would say, mama, where's my pa? That was their like chant, like to go against him, and the Democrats would go back headed to the white house. Ha ha ha. That's awesome dude, that's pretty like that's like.
Speaker 2:That's like those are the good old days, I mean. And then they would also. The Democrats would also respond with Blaine Blaine, James G Blaine, the continental liar from the state of Maine. Dude, there was some clever stuff going on back then. Definitely nothing like that anymore. It seems like.
Speaker 1:No yeah. No, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Quote-isms and kind of memorable slogans of yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Even like I mean that even went into the 60s and 80s, I feel Even in the 80s, I think there were some good slogans.
Speaker 1:I can't think of any off the top of my head. You know what was Ike for Eisenhower? You know just like.
Speaker 2:Quotable but anyway. But like he With this illegitimate child, he just he provided child support for this kid. He just took a and then he ultimately just paid to get him into an orphanage.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, it is what it is.
Speaker 1:He's got his own wife now. She's young.
Speaker 2:That was all before. Yeah, yeah, pretty wild. Yeah, he won that first presidential's election. Even though he won the popular vote, he was. It was a close win. He had the flip or he only won this. What swung the election was new york going democratic with 1200 votes. That was the big change. So basically one with 1200 votes. And then, when they left the white house after the first term, francis cleveland's wife said to the said to somebody at the white house I want you to take a good care of everything. I want to find the same way when we come back and we will be back in four years, mike drop she knew she had.
Speaker 1:She had a finger in the air, she knew what was going on. I mean, it was close. What did he lose? Like I said, he won the popular vote against Benjamin Harrison in 1888, who himself probably ran on the ticket of being hey, I'm a grandson of a former president, he was the grandson of William Henry Harrison. He won. Well, I guess he didn't win by much, but won the popular vote by a thousand votes, it looks like in 1888, not by a whole lot. Yeah, the total popular vote between him and benjamin harrison was a difference of like a thousand votes across the country. No, a hundred thousand votes. Sorry, excuse me, a hundred thousand votes, it's not a lot yeah, I mean imagine um imagine.
Speaker 2:That that happened, I would have taken forever to call oh my gosh, we'd never be the end of it. So the thing that the one huge difference between the two um the grover, cleveland and um and this and donald trump winning. So he beat blaine in his first election. He lost to harrison in his second election. So he beat blaine in his first election. He lost to harrison in his second election. But he beat harrison's third election. Right and then, yeah, that's it for this third election.
Speaker 2:Um, it was actually a super quiet and people say that it was one of the cleanest, quietest and most credible election in the memory of the cleanest, quietest and most credible election in the memory of the post-war generation. So that's a big contrast between what's going on now and what happened this year, based on how long it was. All the freaking craziness that happened over the summer, mainly because of that, was Harrison's wife was dying of tuberculosis, so Harrison didn't even campaign at all and she died two weeks before the election. So it was a super somber event. Everyone was kind of like I guess it was not a. There was no rah-rah or anything surrounding it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So then, another example of where it's a little bit of a similar situation to this election that you can compare to with Grover Cleveland is he was going to run for another. He was going to run for the next election, but at the Democratic Convention in 1896, the party was like, nah, you're good, like he was going to. He was going to run again as a democratic nominee, and at the convention they were like, nah, you're, we're good, and it was mostly based on something that we talked about on the podcast in the past. The whole bimetallism debate was a big deal and uh, cleveland was like super on board with sticking with the gold standard, which was similar to the republicans. But the democrats were kind of, they were felt as though they were more of the uh party for the people of agriculture, where they really wanted to to get that bimetallism and include uh, silver.
Speaker 2:So, um, william jennings brian, during the democratic convention, made this huge speech about can't hang us on a cross of gold or something like really pro bimetallism, and that really got the attention in the backing of the democratic party. So they said, uh, see ya, cleveland, we'll take william jennings brian, um, and uh, yeah, he was the first and only president to be repudiated by his own party, which then I was trying to think that was this article. I don't know where I read that he was the first and only, and I don't know. Do you consider biden have been have it, having been repudiated by his party?
Speaker 1:It's close. It's close. They kind of banded. I wouldn't say that was the first time either. I think John Tyler would probably qualify under that too. I mean, he was basically kicked out. He was kicked out of the Whigs he was elected with.
Speaker 2:Wayne Henry. Yeah, so that's why I don't know if that means like at the convention. I think that's kind of what they were getting at, because I guess it was like he was going to the, I don't know like the convention now is mostly like oh, you're getting the nomination, but I don't know if at some point it was like you would go to the convention and these and you would actually like multiple people would go up.
Speaker 1:I don't know they had open ballots? Yeah, they would actually be. They're casting votes on who they want.
Speaker 2:If it was, if it was too close to call, they would just have like now it's just like it's already a point and then you just go to the convention and get the official nomination.
Speaker 1:If there was any time to ever have it. I feel like, in recent memory, this past one for the democrats would have been a pretty good time too, considering, like I mean, benjamin so big thing that. So when Harrison came into his second non-consecutive term, he basically walked into the panic of 1893. Cleveland.
Speaker 1:Cleveland, excuse me, he basically walked into it and of course he was in power when it officially happened. So he copped the blame like his administration was blamed for it. Americans even at that time probably had a relatively short memory and they thought the things the previous administration were doing really good. So it's really unfortunate that he had not a consecutive term, because in those four years under benjamin harrison we got the silver, the sherman silver purchase act of 1890, which kind of gave the steam, a little bit of steam to you know what william, what, uh, william jennings, bryan and the farmer populists would really use to effectively hijack the Democratic Party, like you said, at the 1896 convention. But the Republicans were actually the one who were first inflationary and then issuing silver purchase and whatnot.
Speaker 1:And I think by the time 1896 rolled around I think McKinley just was like, hey, well, we can just do, we'll just take the gold mantle because we need something to differentiate us from the Democrats, but we're still going to be the high protection side.
Speaker 1:So the Republicans were always the pro-tariff side and effectively, like Grover Cleveland and the the conservative democrats I mean like conservative, like small government, anti-corruption, I mean they were they were pushed out and in my opinion we haven't had like a real conservative party that you know, that speaks to. You know, federalism as it was crafted by the founding fathers since, like that, since grover cleveland, in my opinion, like that election, like the democrats never looked back from 1896. They just became more and more progressive and they became the party which they are now, which they're not conservative like. So a republican like donald trump can run on, you know, he could play a playbook from 100, 160 year old playbook of running on high tariffs and protectionism, one because they've done it before. But also he could still play a little bit of the conservative element, but he's not conservative in the way that a Grover Cleveland would have been. And yeah, a lot of tumultuous stuff happened in those years, for sure.
Speaker 2:It was crazy. I mean I feel like we're just repeating history at this. Sure, it was crazy. I mean it's just like I feel like we're just repeating history at this point. Yeah, terrifying. So many things that we're talking about, so many things that we've talked about on this episode of Nailing. History is not exactly the same, but it's so similar. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:We were printing money and we wanted tariffs, and if we weren't doing that, we were pushing with imperialism and sticking our noses in other parts of the world where they may or may not belong. Which imperial presidency started back in this time period too, with McKinley?
Speaker 2:William McKinley. So then, like I said, the Democrats bounced Grover Cleveland. Grover Cleveland then decided to support a third party called the Gold Democrats, which is basically Democrats that supported Gold Standard. They got smoked. They only had about 100,000 votes in that election and William McKinley crushed the Democrats big time. It was a huge win and yeah, so some interesting things came out of that. Grover Cleveland was also the second largest president.
Speaker 1:Yes, after Taft.
Speaker 2:After Taft, who we know. Taft couldn't even fit into a bathtub. We learned that in an episode before yeah, cleveland lost a lot of esteem in I think for not I think for holding it to your end. I think he lost a lot of esteem at the end of his presidency for not using the government to help bail people out of the economic struggles yeah, well, and he also, I think he caught a little flat.
Speaker 1:he might have gotten a little flack, certainly from the populist and the free silver rights like william jennings, brian, uh, for basically having a one-on-one meeting with JP Morgan, the financier who you know at that time we talked about that basically helped stem the, the, the, the problem of the panic of 1893. Yeah, it probably just doesn't look good to a lot of people, you know. So this whole like billionaires and all the, even the same talking points, I feel like were what really kind of motivated people you know relying, I feel like, are what really kind of motivated people you know relying on billionaires to, you know have their connections and and have their sway, kind of like Elon Musk now with president Trump and in fact maybe people would say JP Morgan with Grover Cleveland. I think the comparisons aren't very similar. I think there was, you know, we didn't have a federal reserve banking system back then.
Speaker 2:We needed. I just think, like obviously we're not going to get hand in hand, but it is. It's. It's kind of eerie, the similarities there.
Speaker 1:And we're the only ones bringing it up, we're only, we're the only ones talking about it I mean, I think grover cleveland is probably almost objectively to say that he was more reputable than donald yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I'm not saying that either. I'm saying just the whole non-executive term, all this stuff. He also had cancer in his mouth. He was a big cigar smoker. He got mouth cancer and he wanted to hide the surgery from the people from the people of the government, I guess, to not show weakness. I think this was during his second term, so while he was planning on running for a third term, he didn't want people to see that. So he got a surgery on like a river cruise. He went, he like said he was going on a vacation on a cruise and got surgery on there.
Speaker 1:The tumors in the Mudders Museum in Philadelphia. Nuh-uh yeah, it is the Mudders. Nah yeah, it is the mutters museum. Is that not mutters mute? Not the mummers mummers museum? Sorry, yeah, like with all the oddities and stuff, it's there for sure. It's in a jar, it's there. I mean it's liquefied or whatever they would have done to preserve it that's disgusting part of our history.
Speaker 2:It's part of our yeah, so when you guys are looking at you know, I think there's interestingly a lot of similarities there. I don't know, that's all I have to say, but I guess you could say that for I don't know kind of any election or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, they didn't give up the fight.
Speaker 2:You know it, just you know he's related to the guy that uh, cleveland ohio is named after. I did. I was reading that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know how far the relationship went. He must have just been such a straight shooter in his personal life and political life that enough people saw that and were like, wow, this guy is like.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying about elections now. Man. I mean, how much would you appreciate if somebody, if a president, would say at one point yeah, that didn't work out, that great, probably could have done that differently. How much would you appreciate that sense of honesty and ownership of your actions? Then I don't know what you're talking about. Or just total yeah, I think that's a big.
Speaker 1:That's what I would want as a president, somebody who can own up to his flaws, because in my opinion, if you don't own up to him, you'll never learn from him yeah, also, I don't think grover cleaver's been a chance to get on, be on a hot mic in a bus with billy bush on axis from axis hollywood at any given time in his history. So I think, like I'm sure he said, off the cuff stuff. Um, he did marry him.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's weird. He married someone that he knew when she was a child and that's probably raised some eyebrows.
Speaker 1:I think even that I'm sure people were like that's odd. But again, I don't know, I don't know if they could, but then at the time I don't know.
Speaker 2:People dude for somebody to say to you like hey, why aren't you married? And he's like, oh, I'm just waiting for my wife to grow up. What kind of answer is that?
Speaker 1:An honest one, you know honest but mildly creepy.
Speaker 2:That's true, I mean we're talking, we? True, I mean we're talking, we're talking. Jerry lee lewis level weirdness man, remember him. He showed up to the us with a like a 13 year old wife, or no europe, I mean he let that one slip.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, just let that one slip. They were just there on stage and people were thinking like, is that his, like niece, like who is that? Who is this girl? And then you're like, oh, my wife and I remember that on vh1 there was a whole documentary on it. Like he just slipped or she's. I don't know if he said it or she said it, but they were like this is my husband said it. We talked about on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Now, you don't remember that?
Speaker 1:I remember we talked about jerry lee lewis. But was that this week in history? Yeah, I got to go back and listen to the old cuts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're going to have to listen to that episode. I think the title Jerry Lee Lewis married who, oh yeah?
Speaker 1:It's all coming back to me. Good old days, those were the best, that was the best.
Speaker 2:Speaking of this week in history, combined with John not remembering things. I got a little one here. Let me hit the bumper here, real quick. This week in history. This week in history missed this man this week in history, this week in history. This week. It is not long enough, if you ask me it is certainly not.
Speaker 2:I got to write lyrics to that little rap. But so I'm bringing back this week in history just because I was just so shocked and, beside myself, john and I were, uh, talking about what we were going to do this episode. We're going to do this week in history, we're going to do some election coverage, whatever, and, um, I brought up a part of history that I thought he wasn't going to be super down with because it was too recent and I didn't think he'd be excited about it. But it turns out, even though it happened while we were in high school, john doesn't remember it at all. And what I'm talking about is, on November 17, 2003, ex-soldier John Muhammad was found guilty of the first of a series of sniper shootings that terrorized the Metro Washington DC area in October 2002. And John doesn't even remember the Washington area sniper Nope, that was such a you don't remember it at all?
Speaker 1:Not at all, not at all.
Speaker 2:We would have been ninth, ninth grade, ninth grade, ninth grade, like as impressionable as you probably possibly could be. Nope, you don't remember this. You don't remember anything.
Speaker 1:I remember almost being in the capitol, there was a shooting in like 97. We were almost there, but I went to the library of congress and said but no, I don't remember this one.
Speaker 2:So there was just all these random shootings going on in Washington DC and there were three weeks in October that this guy so no one knew what was going on People were getting shot pumping their gas. They were getting shot in random parking lots, just sniped and killed out of nowhere. It was super random and everybody was freaking out in the Beltway area, the whole Beltway, like Virginia, maryland, dc, that whole area surrounding DC. No one knew what was going on. I remember watching the news and people were like so there was all this panic. Gas stations put up canopies over their gas pumps. People would hide behind their cars while they were pumping gas or sit in their cars when they were pumping gas. I remember people would volunteer to where they would stand at gas stations with fluorescent lights so they would get shot instead of some random person. They were putting themselves out there to protect other people. It was intense and national news for three weeks. Everybody was terrified. I mean, what kind of life were you living at this time, don't you remember? Don't you remember they were like oh, there's an Astrovan, everyone's looking for a white Astrovan. Oh, there's an Astrovan, everyone's looking for a white Astrovan. Because it was seen fleeing the relative area of a shooting. And then we have a mutual friend, a friend of the show, who had an Astrovan and that was a funny joke.
Speaker 2:I remember waiting for somebody to get. I remember waiting with somebody in high school this is freshman year while this was going on. I remember waiting with somebody in high school this was freshman year, while this was going on, while everyone was looking for an Astrovan. Another fellow student got picked up at an Astrovan. There were three of us waiting out there. He got picked up at an Astrovan.
Speaker 2:We didn't know him at all, we barely knew him. And he gets in there and as soon as he left we looked at each other like, oh my God, he's a list, he's a listener, the guy that we, uh, we shared that moment with. So hope he remembers that. But then it turns out that it was like this whole big thing, these two guys it was an ex-soldier, an adult, and then he was he's bringing around with him the 17 yearyear-old kid, this 17-year-old Jamaican kid, and they were going all around the country like raising heck, like doing crimes and everything, and then finally got to Washington DC, which is where they were from, which is where they started doing these snipers. They tricked out this 1990 Chevy Caprice where they could go prone in the car and have the gun pointed out of the the in the car and like have the gun pointed out of the back of the car, like at the trunk, and they were like shooting people, like that you don't remember any of that.
Speaker 1:I don't remember any of this. Why aren't they making Netflix documentaries about this guy? This seems a lot more like a lot more interesting than and the Menendez brothers. Well, I've heard, I've heard of them, how, so I don't know, just like other stories, I think they probably.
Speaker 2:You know why Netflix probably hasn't done it. It's because they're probably like. Everybody remembers that. How about these guys who I would love to remember because I don't I didn't do, I didn't look into if people were actually I didn't do, I didn't look into like if people were actually I didn't see anything where people were actually doing this. But I remember people saying I'm wearing bright colors just to attract the sniper said they shoot me like. What kind of death wish do you have doing that? If that's like not being it, do you think any, do you think anybody would do that?
Speaker 2:these days, no one can even open up a freaking door for you no they can't even let you spend five minutes by yourself at a at an exhibit at harper's ferry before pushing you out of there let alone somebody trying to take a bullet for just random strangers let alone just moving in one seat on the, on the, on the septa train, you know that was like that would be amazing to me. I would never do that seems like these guys we were talking vietnam era dudes are like I'll take a bullet, I don't care.
Speaker 1:Maybe I forgot it, because it just seems like such a faded place. It seems like another world that you're describing to me, that someone out there would put their risk, their life, for a stranger People. Just.
Speaker 2:I don't know if anybody remembers that and I could be dreaming it. I just remember that, that being the case, I could see it, but screaming it. I just remember that, that being the case, I could see it. But yeah, so this guy manipulated this kid into helping so they would take turns shooting and stuff. It was crazy. It was a crazy, crazy time.
Speaker 2:They caught them at a rest stop and if you ever want to see how the car was set up, go on the Wikipedia page for the DC sniper attacks and there's a video and it is pretty funny. It's these two ATF agents. Go to the Wikipedia for the DC sniper attacks. The bottom, in the motive section, there's an embedded video of the ATF agents demonstrating it and they're dressing like I don't know why they're dressed the way that they are. It's a funny video. Is that popping out of the ATF edges demonstrating it? And they're like dressing like I don't know why they're dressed the way that they are. It's a funny thing popping out of the trunk here. Yeah, that's what they did. That's what I'm saying. It was like. It was like tricked out. That's a. Now, which would you rather have that Caprice or AJ Cowan's? Bronco, not AJ, what was his or AJ Cowan's Bronco, not AJ. What was?
Speaker 1:his name, al Cowan's. Did they sell this one? I?
Speaker 2:don't know, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Can I get?
Speaker 2:it registered in the state of maryland. Oh, jersey plates. Okay, the guy, the. The guy, john muhammad, was a fan of the matrix. He was kind of, uh, he was trying to extort the government for 10 million dollars.
Speaker 1:That was his kind of his motive for the whole thing oh wow, so they just literally had a guy that just the trunk was Wow.
Speaker 2:The guy hanging out of the trunk. It's a great video.
Speaker 3:It's a great video Also not necessary.
Speaker 1:How did they do it? Well, they kind of just cut a hole in the back of the bottom of the trunk where it latches. I think it's cool to show.
Speaker 2:Look at that. At the end you see the gun go off.
Speaker 1:That's crazy, that is wild.
Speaker 2:They killed 10 people and injured three in a three-week span. I mean obviously John Muhammad, who was the adult, the ex-soldier. He got executed and the kid got sentenced life in prison.
Speaker 1:It says here several scenes of shootings. Tarot cards were left as calling cards, including one. Yeah, they would leave like calling cards and stuff to call me god, on the front and on the back for you, mr police code. Call me god, do not release to the press. And here I am reading it 20 years later no, I didn't.
Speaker 2:Uh, I cannot believe. You don't remember that that is absurd at all. How are they called. Should we call? Should we call not believe you don't remember that. That is absurd, not at all. How are they called? Should we call one fan and see if they remember it? Just go one for one See if we got one.
Speaker 1:Don't be overly specific, just say DC sniper attacks. What was it?
Speaker 2:I'm picking our friend with the worst memory, just so you know Our listener with the worst memory.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 2:Hey, is this Andrew S?
Speaker 3:This is Andrew S what's happening.
Speaker 2:Hey, andrew S, it's Matt and John with the Nailing History Podcast. How's it going?
Speaker 3:I'm very honored to be called by you two Long time fan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're surprising you with this one, but it's a little bit of an easier surprise question than the last time we were on. Okay, you got to settle something for us here, because I am baffled by what we're getting into on this episode.
Speaker 3:That's exciting stuff. I can't wait to hear what it is.
Speaker 2:Do you remember the? Do you hear that? I can't remember Exactly. Well, this is a perfect example. I hope this blows your mind. Do you remember the time period in October of 2002, with the Washington area sniper attacks?
Speaker 3:Kind of oh my god, I know that that happened, but I don't know. Anything about it, because it was what it was basically two guys in the trunk of a plate. They hollowed out the back of their car or whatever and they were shooting through the trunk, right.
Speaker 2:Dude John doesn't remember it at all. It's like it never happened.
Speaker 1:Maybe I am in the Matrix, Sorry.
Speaker 3:Mr S.
Speaker 1:I never heard of it.
Speaker 2:Can you believe that, andrew S? It's unbelievable, this guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by that, because that was a few weeks long, if I'm not mistaken. Like what? 15 people, maybe, something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they killed 10 people during this time. Overall, those two guys killed 17 people. So you're close. We kind of just went through the whole thing, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't going crazy. I mean, we were freshmen in high school. I mean, you couldn't be more impressionable.
Speaker 1:I was trying out for the wrestling team at our high school.
Speaker 3:I was trying my best. I had other things on my mind, too busy running laps in the hallway with trash bags around your. You know I was wrestling in the last year, Obviously cutting weight?
Speaker 2:No, but that's illegal and doing it out in the open.
Speaker 1:I'm also taking pictures of my ballot, so I guess we're neither here nor there.
Speaker 2:I think about that often. You were literally running through the halls of our high school with trash bags around. That's so not legal. I don't know if it was then, I don't know if it is now. I feel like somebody should have told you to stop.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was sanctioned by my coach. I wasn't told not to do it, I made weight.
Speaker 2:Don't put it on anybody else.
Speaker 1:But anyway, I had other priorities.
Speaker 3:Why is that? Sorry, go ahead Dan.
Speaker 1:I was just saying I was just too busy making weight, not paying attention to the 24-hour news cycle.
Speaker 2:I just can't believe that it was pretty scary because it was close. I don't know if, andrew Andres, I mean, there were thoughts that they might. They had no idea they could have made it up our way. You never know.
Speaker 1:I was not going to deal with that traffic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Give me a break. We'll do Baltimore going through the tunnel. Forget it, he wouldn't turn now. No, not at all.
Speaker 3:If you were going on a night being spray, I don't know if I'd want to stay in one spot for too long. You know like get one city and then move on do you remember?
Speaker 2:do you remember people like wearing fluorescent colors, like wearing like safety, like vests and stuff to kind of like draw attention and saying like I'll take the bullet instead of some random trying to be safe for that, do you remember that?
Speaker 3:That I don't remember.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'm just, I think, the best of everybody. Maybe at that time of my life I just thought everybody was out to help everybody and I might have dreamt that, I don't know, but I remember that. I remember seeing it on the news, guys being like, yeah, I'm wearing fluorescence so that he would shoot me, not some random. No, you remember that they were looking for an AstroVan and there were some people in our high school that had AstroVans and that was always kind of funny to think about.
Speaker 3:Were they? I don't remember. I don't remember big specifics like that, like what they were looking for, big specifics like that. I ended up being like what? Like a blue sedan or something like that. You nailed it.
Speaker 2:You nailed it, Andrus.
Speaker 3:A.
Speaker 2:Chevy Caprice Yep.
Speaker 1:You could be telling us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, just one thing. We'll let you go here in a little bit, because we kind of already went through all that, just wanted to find out that I wasn't. I just wanted to make sure that John was so beyond. It's just so unbelievable that he doesn't remember it. Would you rather get Ted Kaczynski or DC area sniped or I guess it would be. I guess maybe not necessarily that, but would you rather be near a Ted Kaczynski event or live in the Beltway during the Snipers?
Speaker 3:I think I'd rather be in the Beltway. I think I'd rather take my chances with the sniper finding me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess you could go.
Speaker 3:I mean, if you're in a big area of you know, like millions of people or hundreds of thousands. It's like what are my odds versus like attention to things, like I have no idea if I've ever met this person and like cross them in some weird way. I don't know. That's a good question. It's a weird, weird one, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I have a good answer hmm, I just feel like your odds are going to be a lot higher. In a set radius assuming you know he from what I'm looking on this picture he shot 17 different people just in the vicinity of the dc area. Ted kaczynski was a forest in Montana, wasn't he?
Speaker 2:But nobody knew where he was.
Speaker 3:Well, but to John's point, that's probably actually right, because it's like, even if you don't know where he is, it's still a much bigger, it's just a bigger pool of people.
Speaker 2:I mean you're talking like one metro area versus the entire country, because I think Ted Kaczynski was like both coasts, I think. I think he went nationwide with his attacks and he was specifically mailing to specific people.
Speaker 1:Maybe you couldn't go all third between them, but they weren't just random person in the burbs of Pittsburgh getting a letter from Ted Kaczynski who just works at nine to five. It was like senator wasn't it?
Speaker 2:oh, what about? It was a lot of people with technology. He hated technology.
Speaker 1:I do remember people mailing anthrax to one another, like that was the same. That was. Oh yeah, wasn't that was.
Speaker 2:That was like 2002, right yeah, yeah, I remember that stuff that was like right after the dc area sniper copycat dude, talk about it, talk about a crazy time. Man 9-11 I'm sniper attacks anthrax shocked it hasn't happened again.
Speaker 1:I didn't know this story actually happened. I'm shocked it hasn't repeated itself. The sniper attack yeah, like if I didn't know it story actually happened. I'm shocked it hasn't repeated itself. The sniper attack, yeah, like if I didn't know it was a thing. I'm really shocked in the political climate we've been in the past, however long, I'm shocked. Well, I think cell phones yeah, he's put on an airplane mode I don't think it works that way.
Speaker 2:Not for, Not for the NSA dog. Oh okay, you can kid yourself all you want.
Speaker 1:Well, I only put it on to save my battery life anyway.
Speaker 3:Was Kind of like a sidebar here. Was Ted Kaczynski part of the MKUltra stuff. Did they think that he was tested on? Oh, at MIT Kind of similar. Did they think that he was?
Speaker 2:tested on back in the day, oh, at MIT, kind of similar, I feel like there was one of those. I don't know if it was that. Mkultra was that when they were testing LSD on people?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that thing.
Speaker 2:I think with him it was more like psychiatric tests, I think Okay, it wasn't drug-induced, but they would really mess with his mind in studies. I think John's on ChatGPT I think right now he might have an answer for us too. I'm so sorry. Ted Kaczynski went to Harvard, not MIT, and he participated in a study led by Harvard psychologist Henry Murray. Subjects were told they would debate personal philosophy with a fellow student and were asked to write essays detailing their personal beliefs and aspirations. The essays were given to an anonymous individual who would confront and belittle the subject in what Murray himself called vehement, sweeping and personally abusive attacks, using the content of the essays as ammunition. Kaczynski spent 200 hours as part of the study, so yeah, he got messed up by that too.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay. So yeah, I thought there was something that like that he signed up for something and some kind of weird. So yeah, that's it. I wasn't bad with the snipers then. No, the snipers was.
Speaker 2:He was like he got, he was in the military and then he kind of started. He went like jihad on everybody.
Speaker 1:I have a question for you too. How much would you pay? Would you listen to a three-hour sit-down podcast with Elon Musk and Ted Kaczynski? Like Mr Anti-Technology, but I think it'd be a very smart conversation. He's at Harvard educated. He was writing books. I'd be curious to hear the conversation. Andrew S, what do you think?
Speaker 3:I don't think I'd pay for that, but I've listened to it for free.
Speaker 1:Joe Rogan's moderating I think you're right.
Speaker 2:I think you would start having flashbacks to his study in Harvard and freak out, which would also be entertaining. Would he have more coherent thoughts and maybe be more interesting to hear than Charles Manson? Sure, I agree. Would I want to listen to what he has to say? I don't think so.
Speaker 3:I would join. I want to listen to what he has to say. I don't think so. Okay, I'm with John, though I think that would be a fascinating conversation where you have two polar opposites. I always think that's interesting. You get those types of people together. One thinks one thing all the way to the left and one's all the way to the right, and then it's like where do you, where do you cross over?
Speaker 2:and like that, that's where you get the interesting, interesting stuff you could like really start triggering him too by saying like I was uh using chat gpt, and he'd be like wait, what's that?
Speaker 1:no, he's like. What's that? I've been in prison for 30 years. What's that? Chat? What? Oh?
Speaker 2:no, it's the thing that just you know, you just put in a prompt and it does all the thinking for you.
Speaker 1:And it's AI artificial intelligence, I mean yeah, tells you what to think.
Speaker 3:And Elon don't open any packages for the next couple weeks either, but it's really cool.
Speaker 1:I think I mean from a personal just from how you describe these dc snipers and how we're describing tech is if someone's like you just had to how to listen to why their motivation, like what their thought, what's going through their head, I think I'd be more interested in knowing what went through ted kaczynski's head than the dc sniper and the 17 year old just from, like a what I would think is I'll tell you what I will pay for.
Speaker 2:What I would pay for is DC area snipers, Ted Kaczynski, just have those two interview each other. I'd pay for that. That would be something.
Speaker 3:Way worse.
Speaker 2:Just lock him in a room and say go ahead, we're recording who's moderating um timothy mcveigh? What? Yeah, maybe ted bundy. It would be weird to put like all those crazy, like all like dcr snipers ted kaczynski, ted Bundy, timothy. Mcveigh the one from Milwaukee, the one who ate people. Oh Dahmer, Put them all in a room and just record. That would be freaking wild. That would be wild man.
Speaker 1:I just want who would come out of there Like a big brother man.
Speaker 3:John Wayne Gacy in there too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want to come out of there like a like a big brother, like a show big brother, but like big brother serial killers. Now we're talking. Jack the Ripper like old school maybe that's how they should have like executed them, like get them all together, be like listen, one of you guys isn't going to be executed, but you have to vote people off every one of you that dies will be pulled down immediately upon everybody will see your little wee-wee.
Speaker 1:You will get the Mussolini treatment.
Speaker 2:But one of you won't. Oh dude, that's a TV show.
Speaker 3:That'd be weird.
Speaker 1:What's that Netflix show? That's like that. People were in debt. There's like 99 people in squid games A squid game. Yeah, that's like a squid game in debt. There's like 99 people in a squid squid games, a squid game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's like a game I'd actually be interested in you would be.
Speaker 2:I mean, john would be like weirdly interested in it, I think. I think, I don't know, I think ted kaczynski would be either.
Speaker 1:He'd either come out on top. I think you know, john.
Speaker 2:You know what you know what it would be I think Ted Kaczynski would really get John. He would get his hooks into John and John would just be like you know, he's really not that bad of a guy.
Speaker 1:Compared to these guys For sure.
Speaker 3:He's actually pretty smart, for sure.
Speaker 1:I would definitely do a hard comparison, you know, compared to this guy.
Speaker 2:No, I think it would be like he kind of reminds me of John Tyler a little bit. I like him Alright, Andres, you got anything else to leave the fans with while you're on. You got one chance.
Speaker 3:Nope, just take care of it, it's going to kill.
Speaker 1:John's life.
Speaker 3:It's spreading like wildfire.
Speaker 2:That's a good thing, John. It's a good thing when people use your tagline. Well, I thank you. Ted Kaczynski would have killed for somebody to use his tagline.
Speaker 3:What would his tagline have been?
Speaker 2:Do we ask ChatGPT?
Speaker 1:That's a great question for ChatGPT. The DC Snipers had a tagline they left tarot cards for their victims.
Speaker 3:Wait, really.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:For their victims. They would drop them afterwards and be like Like the. Joker, I'm God.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did not know that was a thing either. That's great.
Speaker 2:What would Ted Kaczynski's tagline be?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's tagline? Be yeah. What's his calling card?
Speaker 2:Technology will destroy us all. The industrial revolution was a mistake. That's a good one. Now I could hear John saying that right now. Well, you know, the industrial revolution was actually a bad thing.
Speaker 1:It could be a luddite. No, actually I don't know. I've driven through Amish country. It doesn't look that great. I don't think we could go back to it. I don't think Ted Kaczynski can live with the Amish for a week.
Speaker 2:I'll just leave you with seven more. Keep calm and reject the internet. Real men don't need Wi-Fi. Siri, I'm going to have to unsubscribe. Delete your Facebook, then delete your phone. Log off, live free or don't. Your smartwatch is watching you. If you're not using a typewriter, are you even living? Those aren't very good. I do like the theory. I'm going to have to unsubscribe. That's a good one. And real men don't need Wi-Fi is pretty much how John lives his life. So there you go. All right, andrew, thanks for picking up. I'm glad we missed you on the Halloween episode, so I figured I had to pick one person to corroborate my story that everybody remembers the Washington area sniper attacks. I picked you.
Speaker 3:Well, I very much appreciate the call. I'm happy I remembered it and did not embarrass myself. Big takeaway.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. Thanks for listening. As always, make sure you like, share and subscribe Andrew S and anytime you want to send over a text message to us.
Speaker 3:It would be appreciated. Will do. All right, thanks, big dog Thank you Keep up the good work, boys.
Speaker 2:Always Bye. There you go, John. He has the worst memory of anybody that I've ever met and for him to remember it makes you the word the person with the worst memory that I've ever met. So there you go. Now I know. Lesson learned.
Speaker 1:There's a lesson learned yeah, I just I think I blacked out from, I guess, 9 11 to like the 2004 election. As far as like pop culture events go, I don't remember anything between 2001 and 2004.
Speaker 2:It probably had something to do with you trying to cut weight. It must have messed with your brain stem. I guess you lived a pretty sheltered life, kind of. That's what it sounds like to me.
Speaker 1:Well, what did we cover? To me, well, it's well. What do we cover? I mean, we covered, you know, probably one of the most reputable and responsible um presidents I would say we probably ever had. And then we talked about an individual.
Speaker 2:He kind of won me, he kind of won me over a little bit. I just think I just, you know, just to sum it up, like I just want everyone to think about how history repeats itself, for good or for bad it does.
Speaker 1:Yep, and we've. We've put the kibosh and we've made it through election season.
Speaker 2:And well, no, I'm just saying, like the country itself, we did it.
Speaker 1:Society itself continues, no matter where I still cross my fingers that we'll do away with multi, multiple terms for the president. We'll have a single six-year term. That's what I hope and pray for in the long run. I don't know if we'll get there and.
Speaker 2:But you know, everyone thought the economy was in bad shape. It shook itself out somehow. One way or the other might have taken world war ii, who knows?
Speaker 1:who knows?
Speaker 2:I think it's cool to think about how the similar I just thought it was fun similarities between the two. Obviously you're gonna have similarities when you have non-consecutive terms, but yeah well and grover cleveland.
Speaker 1:Certainly he beat the establishment. You know trump might be more of that, but yeah, they were both kind of anti-establishment in their way. So yeah, it's interesting. Non-consecutive terms.
Speaker 2:It would have been interesting, I wonder, what your thoughts would have been if Cleveland ran for a fourth time, if you would have not been as much of a fan of his, because it sounds as though he was heading that way until the Democrats housed him. I'll tell you who wouldn't have been a fan another person we've spoken of on this podcast no, I think. Well, who was the? What was the name of the guy who shot? Who shot roosevelt?
Speaker 2:john shrank yeah, he would not have been a fan of cleveland. Now I wonder, if he was a fan of cleveland as a president, would not have been a fan of Cleveland. Now I wonder, if he was a fan of Cleveland as a president, would he have been? Yeah, I mean, he probably wasn't alive, right?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Or very young, wouldn't he?
Speaker 1:He would have been. He would have been a young man.
Speaker 2:Well, he was. When was the assassination? Well, 1913. When was the assassination? Maybe so 1913. Yeah, he definitely he definitely been alive, yeah, but he would have been young, he would have been like 10. But I think Cleveland, I mean it could be, I mean you don't even you when you were. You don't remember what happened when you were. You don't remember a national emergency from when you were 14, so why would you expect John Schrank to remember the president when he was 10? In Germany?
Speaker 1:of all places too. I don't know if he would have been, because I feel like no. I do think Cleveland tried to be, in my opinion, tried to be more in line with what the founders, you know, maybe thought in some ways. I think, politically speaking, like they might have both been more on, like they wouldn't. He would have liked that Cleveland was more anti-imperialist in sentiment.
Speaker 2:I think Cleveland always kind of gets dumped on because of his like two non-consecutive terms.
Speaker 1:Well, that's just like a convenient way to kind of remember him but then just shrug him off. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Grover Cleveland, yeah, big guy but not as big as Taff, and he won two consecutive terms. Yeah, we know that guy. I mean that's him, that's his MO, he was the most.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was. He was one of the best, in my opinion, up there with John Tyler, thomas Jefferson. He was the best.
Speaker 2:All right, john, alright, john. Well, that's it. That's all that we have for you guys today.
Speaker 1:We will see you on the next one yeah, guys, thank you so much for tuning in and stay curious got anything to leave them with? Stay extra curious.
Speaker 3:I got hairy legs.