Nailing History
Introducing "Nailing History," the podcast where two friends attempt to nail down historical facts like they're trying to assemble IKEA furniture without the manual. Join Matt and Jon (or Jon and Matt) as they stumble through the annals of time, armed with Wikipedia, Chat GPT, and a sense of reckless abandon.
In each episode, Matt and Jon pick a historical event that tickles their curiosity (and occasionally their funny bone) and dissect it like a frog in biology class—except they're the frogs, and they have no idea what they're doing. From ancient civilizations to modern mishaps, they cover it all with the finesse of a bull in a china shop.
But wait, there's more! In between butchering historical names and dates, Matt and Jon take a break to explore the intersection of history and pop culture. Ever wondered if Cleopatra would have been a TikTok sensation? Yeah, neither have they, but that won't stop them from imagining it in excruciating detail.
So grab your popcorn and prepare to laugh, cringe, and possibly learn something (though don't hold your breath). With Matt and Jon leading the charge, "Nailing History" is the only podcast where you're guaranteed to leave scratching your head and questioning everything you thought you knew about the past. After all, who needs a PhD when you've got two clueless buddies and a microphone?
Nailing History
133: Two amateur historians walk into historic homes and immediately annoy the tour guides.
When typical bachelor party debauchery gets replaced with historical site tours, you know you're dealing with history nerds of the highest order. What began as an attempt to check off the "Historic Triangle of Virginia" quickly spiraled into a comedy of errors featuring annoyed tour guides, historical mansplaining gone wrong, and the touching of things that should not be touched.
Our journey begins at the White House of the Confederacy in Richmond, where a young, knowledgeable tour guide expertly schools our overconfident host who tries to show off his Civil War expertise. The painful silence following his fumbled explanation of the Peninsula Campaign might be the most educational moment of the entire tour. Despite expectations of controversy, the site offers a surprisingly thoughtful perspective on this complex chapter of American history.
The real highlight comes at Sherwood Forest, home of President John Tyler and the only presidential residence continuously inhabited by descendants of a former president. Here we meet Tim, a ponytailed guide with questionable fashion sense who delivers a marathon three-hour tour filled with football field analogies and protective rage when antique candlesticks are touched by unauthorized fingers. "Yeah, but I know which one to touch" might be the perfect retort to sum up the entire experience.
Between Jefferson Davis's restored citizenship (which he might not have wanted), John Tyler's fifteen children, and the current resident who is "63 going on 18," this episode captures the strange, fascinating characters who inhabit our national story—both historical figures and the dedicated, if sometimes eccentric, individuals who preserve their legacies.
If you've ever felt that rush of embarrassment when someone in your group asks a stupid question at a museum, or fantasized about touching the artifacts behind the velvet rope, this episode validates all your historical tourist urges and anxieties. Listen now to experience the Historic Triangle of Virginia through the eyes of two podcasters who can't help but think they could do everything better—even while proving the exact opposite.
getting back used to using these buttons, I kind of forgot which one, what they all do oh boy, what they all do, oh boy. We got some splaining to do.
Jon:Wow, check these mics even work anymore fans, do they even work? Wow, wow, wow. We promised some big. Where do we leave it off with the mat?
Matt:big promises, big letdown big hundred divers a little bit too much. Nintendo switch a little bit of that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit mostly nintendo switch.
Jon:I think well, if I recall correctly, it was yourself that encouraged me to get the now seven-year-old Nintendo Switch sports game. I was just discovering it and. I was hooked Hook line and sinker as they say.
Matt:Point the finger, we'll call you John Finger Pointer, john the Finger Pointer.
Jon:No man.
Matt:I'm trying to think of, like an Italian, you know mafiosa name that could make that work Johnny Fingerpoints.
Jon:Johnny Fingerpoints. Over here, Guy blames everybody else for the Switch problems. Don't want to focus on his history podcast. Well, I thought we were looking for some stuff and then I got word from my co-host that he pulled the plug on our podcasting.
Matt:You weren't working on anything. You weren't working on anythinging. You weren't working on anything don't play, don't play. Don't play this like oh, I was just, I was really working hard then all of a sudden, matt just pulled the plug on me. That last episode really took the wind out of my sales and I think it took the wind out of a lot of our listeners. Sales downloads are down what was that?
Jon:it's post, christmas post post holiday period you know, people are. It's cold, it's winter, people are just over the winter months. Now it's it's may, sun's out, birds and bees are humming. I just I'm excited to be back behind the microphone. I don't know about you.
Matt:Well.
Matt:I tried to pull the plug to finish John's story. I tried to pull the plug completely on it. I was going to unsubscribe to all of my podcast subscriptions in the sense of Descript and Buzzsprout are the people who host our nice podcast and it turns out that I was about three days short to cancel my Descript yearly membership that I accidentally signed up for. It's been over a year now and since I was too late, it signed me up for a whole another year so I couldn't cancel it, um, and it kind of forced me to. Um, well, I mean, it didn't force me to get back on. I was trying to think of different directions to go but, you know, ultimately just came back to like, I guess we'll just try to resurrect this thing.
Jon:And I guess when it had renewed is that when you told me you'd canceled it or you were canceling it, you already knew it got renewed.
Matt:I tried to cancel it. Then I renewed it. Then I'm like I'll tell John that I canceled it, see how much he cares and let me see if I I wish I could get this text message up. Let me see if I can find this here. So the text message that I sent was by the way, I've been meaning to tell you I've canceled the script going to sunset the pod, and your response was I figured that and that was the only thing that he said. So it doesn't sound like you were putting a lot of effort in that. You were real bummed out about it.
Jon:I told my fiance, I told Lauren G about it and she was bummed for me.
Matt:So there's that. Why didn't you talk your feelings to me? Why do you have to be so guarded If we're going to co-host this thing?
Jon:new secrets, no secrets. New secrets or no secrets, no secrets. We can make new secrets if you want, although we can't tell all of our new secrets that we got from last weekend, which it was wild for one fans just a little bit.
Matt:A couple updates from the last episode that we did, if you remember, um I had yeah, a little bit of housekeeping. I had, um, I had made a big announcement on that last podcast about my diagnosis of dandruff and I just want, I just want to give everyone an update and um, it's gone, it worked I think it worked.
Jon:The 50 shampoo worked, yep 15.
Matt:So, fans, if you ever, if you ever have a problem with um dandruff, you know, head over to super cuts and, uh, buy the most expensive shampoo they have and it'll go away in a couple days now.
Jon:I've also heard that dandruff is also a seasonal issue at times. Could it be that your scalp is just a little more nutrient? It's dry weather in winter. I think this dandruff is more present in winter months. I'm not saying you just didn't straight up have it and you didn't need this tea tree oil shampoo, but I've heard that it comes in waves in the winter. Okay, but I I don't not to be outdone. I think I myself was dealing with a little dandruff issue and I'm currently medicating with tea tree oil. I haven't seen any immediate result, but I think it's getting better. Stay tuned in a month when we get back to another episode and we'll tell you.
Matt:Yeah, let us know you got to. Let us know. Yeah, what else? So we do have very, very old. I guess you call it cleaning out the drunk drawers. That's what they call it in the business of old business. Two episodes ago, I think, to start off the OJ episode, we were talking about John getting a suit, going suit shopping and everything, and we got a little bit of a feedback about that conversation from our friend of the show, dick Pepperfield. It says hey, boys Thought I'd help John out with his underwear problem.
Matt:I'm a big fan of MeUndies. They are soft, breathable and get the job done. If you're looking for more separation for your twig and berries, you can check out Sheath. I haven't tried them, but people say they keep your meat cool. They also do podcast sponsorship, so maybe you can get two birds stoned at once and get some free samples. Now, I could be wrong, but I think John was alluding to feeling sexy on his wedding day. You could look into an Italian style over at Manier Manier. Manier 100% Italian hard bodies, and they even offer jock straps for max breathability. Forza Italia Solid episode as usual. Long live Kato. Stay classy Dick Pepperfield. An episode as usual. Long live kato. Stay classy dick pepperfield. So this episode has is being brought to you by me, undies sheath, and manier.
Jon:Free shipping of above 100 euros for underwear 100 euros dick pepperfield was not joking. The camera is literally. All these dudes wearing this is for manny air. This is manny air.
Matt:I'm on their website right now I, I don't want to sell uh dick pepperfield up the river, down the river, whatever, however that phrase goes to follow the uh um the theme of this podcast.
Jon:But, um, I think that it is a german company, not italian it says made in italy, and they are oh is very scandously dressed, I must say yeah there are some hot bods on that website I looked it up these waistbands. They got the tri-colors of italy on the waistbands I mean mean this? I don't know, I'm under attack.
Matt:Is it Italian?
Jon:It says Made in Italy on their website.
Matt:Oh, maybe I was looking at something else. How expensive.
Jon:Manier Devoir, handmade in Italy. That would be an interesting look. This guy is currently doing squats Reverse shoulder, looking over his shoulder. I scroll down and it's just his cheeks, it's just. I guess he's wearing a jockstrap I don't know his butt cheeks are just hanging out wait, where is this?
Matt:what website are you on?
Jon:I don't think you're on the right, I don't know, oh wait, pepperfield found this one, but how?
Matt:did you, Manier Dubois? Is that where you're at? Oh yeah, Dick Pepperfield, you might want to check your internet history just in case you know. Dark room on Very scandalousalous very risque option he's not in a squat position, john. You may seem like he was like in the down squat. Wow, man, you should get a pair of these. Maybe I'll buy them for you, isn't that is? That is that part of the best man's um job responsibility?
Jon:to get to get the men's lingerie for uh banana hammocks they're called in certain parts of the world I think isn't there smugglers and others?
Matt:isn't there some kind of um tradition, not tradition, I guess I wouldn't say, but that women, that women like, will get like, uh, lingerie, like a lingerie photo shoot for their husband before their wedding?
Matt:not a tradition I've come across, nor one I think will be continuing, unfortunately bridal boudoir photography is a pre-wedding photo shoot focusing on sensual, intimate and often erotic imagery, often done as a gift for the groom. The shoots typically take place a few weeks or months before the wedding and involve a photographer capturing the bride in a variety of lingerie or other suggestive outfits. The goal is to celebrate the bride's body sexuality and to create a memorable intimate gift for the groom. So we could do the opposite of that and we'll have you do these poses in your Manier Devoir darkroom collection, and maybe that will be my gift to Lauren G for the wedding.
Jon:It might have to pay for. Maybe we can get some sponsorship, maybe we'll do a two-for-one or, like Dick Pepperfield was saying, I'll model them. It could be a gift for Lauren G, but also.
Matt:They could use it for the website.
Jon:They can use it for the website Brought to you by Nailing History, or Nailing History brought to you by Nailing History.
Matt:You would have to be like Maybe it would be like you'd be dressed up like Lafayette or no, he was French. Or I could just use my FaceSwap app and use these photos from here and put you on all of these and put them in a calendar and give them to Lauren G for your wedding.
Jon:Now you're using the thing between no, but that's yeah you would, but no, she's got it.
Matt:It's got to be, it's got to celebrate your body, sex and sexuality. So it will do all those things.
Jon:So maybe we'll do all those things.
Matt:So maybe we'll set that up. We should have done that probably last weekend, but I'll set that up.
Jon:Well, speaking of last, weekend.
Matt:That is a tradition. I don't know if, I don't know how often it's done, but I've heard that from some people. Like I've heard that from some people. I've heard of women that I've talked to that had mentioned they were going through the pictures with the bride to pick the best ones for the gift.
Jon:And then what do they do with it? I guess that's my question. So in 20 years time, if you're caught red-handed looking at an older picture of your wife and your current?
Matt:wife walks in, is she going to get all upset?
Jon:She's like oh, you don't like me the way I am now. How would you?
Matt:feel if, 20 years down the road, lauren G was looking at the old pictures of you in the dark room collection of Manier Devoir? How would that make you feel? I guess would be the question.
Jon:I think I would try to find ways to say I still look like that. I think I would delude myself. I'd be like, yeah, I look just as good Currently. Oh, 20 years. I think I would be like yeah, I was a smoke show back then, but I still think I'm pretty good now or maybe it's something to show your kids when they get older.
Matt:I'm gonna aspire to. I don't know you could do. It could be like you could look back and just be like, wow man, those, those 10 push-ups a day really did a lot for me back then. Maybe.
Jon:I should get back into it.
Matt:So I guess time to get into it here. John is getting married. At basically the end of this month, first week of June, john's getting married and we had a I guess you could call it a bachelor party. Well, it was a bachelor bash 's true. That's true. Um and uh, you know, we kind of did it um this podcast.
Matt:It was very, it was a very personalized experience, um, because it wasn't the traditional uh format of most bat what you would think a typical bachelor party would be, which would be, I guess, like the hangover, like the hangover shenanigans, lewd behavior.
Jon:Yeah, I might say fun. Maybe some people that are with us might say having fun kind of a pre-requisite fun might have for some people.
Matt:Fun may have been a uh, a hole in the weekend, might have been a a lack of fun for for some of the people involved, but we didn't care, but we did it. So, hey, we obviously want to share the aspects of the weekend that we think our listeners would be maybe interested in, or at least follow the theme of this podcast.
Jon:I think it's fair to say we had to resurrect the podcast, at minimum for covering what we did last weekend for this Bachelor Bash. There was too much history, we would be remiss. Too much history.
Matt:We would be remiss to leave you guys out of the conversation. And, that being said, something that I realized as it was too late, we were on our way down there. And, I being said, something that I realized as it was too late, we were on our way down there and I mentioned to john that, um, we owed um dick pepperfield, our fan, um the experience of coming along with us at a 50 discount. I think that was. That was the prize he won for. I forget what, being the first fan mail.
Jon:He could have cashed in on that big time last weekend. Oh wow, oh yeah.
Matt:Yeah, it would have been, he would have gotten his money's worth.
Jon:Let's just say that.
Matt:Well, I don't know if he would have gotten his money's worth, but it would have been more of a grand prize, more than just a prize. I don't, I'm I'm lost there. But apologize, dick Pepperfield, but I think you might've been better off. So, um, with no further ado, I want to say I want to open up this, up with John and I did the historic triangle of Virginia, so that you guys don't have to yes, I think, is the best way to say that right.
Jon:Yep Historical triangle of Virginia plus.
Matt:Yeah, we did it. All the kids are using this days.
Jon:Yeah, Hulu plus all the streaming services plus. So we tacked on a few bonus features.
Matt:Yeah, we made it. We gave it the nailing history twist. It's like a two-hour episode version of the Historic Triangle and we're probably going to give you a three-hour episode summary of the Historic Triangle of Virginia Plus.
Jon:I can guarantee you're still going to get your money's worth from this episode than you would from one of the money's worth from this episode, than you would from one of the places we went on this podcast. I don't want to steal my own thunder yeah, let's, let's keep it in order here.
Matt:So just a quick summary of the historic triangle um, it's uh down in the um, I guess, the peninsula area, the tidew Virginia.
Jon:I guess is what you would call it Tidewater Virginia.
Matt:There's three main attractions there. I guess you would call it that's how they treat it, at least. You have Jamestown, which is the first permanent settlement in America by Europeans, by the English, sure by the English. Then you got Colonial Williamsburg, which is John D Rockefeller Jr's little pet project, as we came to learn.
Jon:And the former capital of the Virginiaia colony before his pet project.
Matt:But yes, and then the uh yorktown national battlefield, which is the site of the, not only the final scene, the final battle of the america, the final major battle of the American Revolution, but also the site of the final scene of the film Revolution starring Al Pacino, which we've reviewed on this podcast. Going to Yorktown was really considered to be a pilgrimage of the podcast because of the significance it had to that great film.
Jon:And just, I think, closing out, we did so many other site tours of other revolutionary war places like saratoga, and we obviously have been to valley forge and I think, yeah, we had a.
Matt:Really we had to put a bow on it yeah, kind of putting a bow on that whole, that whole area. I know, in the beginning of this podcast I was told that we were stuck in the 18th century for too long by Brian K Shout out to him, so if he's listening, I don't know he's still listening.
Matt:We may have lost him a little bit there, but he's still alive. We didn't lose him like that, Just lost him as a listener and so yeah, so it was kind of like putting a real. So yeah, so it was kind of like putting a real Felt like it really put a bow on the 18th century revolutionary period of America.
Jon:For me, and just to say we'll tell our fans, we'll just get this out of the way, If any of our fans do go to Yorktown any of our fans that have also seen Revolution just know it's different. That's all I'll say.
Matt:Yeah, we'll get to it. So we actually the plus aspect of the historic triangle we took care of in the first day, so we can take care of that and then we can just get right into the. We added a little bit at the end, but that was small. So the first thing we did was something that John tacked on to the itinerary pretty late in the process of preparing the bachelor party. I was the best man, so I was in charge of planning it. I did an okay job. I did a John.
Matt:I figured John deserved to get the same effort put into his bachelor party that he puts into the podcast. So that's basically what I did. It's only fair.
Jon:So I think our listeners can see the level of preparation that went into that but anyway, john started an email chain and that was big, yes, and that's where business gets done, as we all know.
Matt:So and um. So, john, if you want to get started on why you wanted to go to this place, what made you interested in it, and you know we'll just do a quick recap of this one yeah.
Jon:So, as matt alluded to, we added this stop on pretty soon, pretty uh late in this in the game, uh, I think like maybe a lot even a week before uh. But reason why, uh, we decided to add this on is because there's going to be a low time. We were four of us down there for the whole weekend, but three of us were driving and we couldn't check into our Airbnb until 4 pm on a Friday.
Matt:We would have just had too much time on our hands. I don't think the fans need to know all this stuff. So we were driving. To get to get to what?
Jon:to get to the historic triangle of virginia, you end up basically having to drive through richmond virginia, which is the current capital of virginia it's the current capital, virginia, and it was the capital of the confederate states of america during the civil war and to this they still have what is known as the White House of the Confederacy. It's still standing. It is on the campus of Virginia Commonwealth University and they give tours and I I told my sister, I told Emily M about that.
Matt:We went here and she was shocked that it still existed. Really, yeah, which I could see. That. I wasn't shocked, but she was curious who kept it open? And I think you know I might be jumping ahead here, but it's not run by the federal government, correct? I think it's privately owned by the Museum of the Civil War which is down there. Right, and I think, well, it was getting decrepit, which seems to be better, which seems to be a well better run establishment than the Museum of the American Revolution in Philadelphia. But I digress.
Jon:Mm-hmm, I think it was after the war. Well, it was in private hands before the war. It well, it was in private hands before the war. And then it was like leased to the confederacy and so it wasn't destroyed. So, um, they said it was the white house of the confederacy. So it was jefferson davis's home uh, he's the president of the confederate states during the civil war. It's his family's home during those four years. And he left, I think they said april 2nd. He was basically given word hey, you got to run, you got to ditch this place because the Union troops are at the door. And they said two days later, lincoln was standing in the living room. So the Union forces took over the city of Richmond in April of 1865. By that point, basically, the war was effectively over, so they didn't have to burn the thing down.
Matt:I think they used it as a headquarters for reconstruction.
Jon:I think is what she said the use of a reconstruction and then eventually it kind of I think eventually fell into disrepute. But then the confederate daughters of america got hold of it and pumped some money into it and I was really surprised at how well put together it was. But my interest in going here stems from having read the civil war books by the author shelby foot, who shout out to shane gillis was name dropping on snl a couple months back for any of our fans who caught in a joking matter, I believe, but no well as they say no such thing as, no such thing as bad publicity, as they say.
Matt:How did he put it? What was the context of how he talked about it?
Jon:he was just acting like how shelby foot was in the civil war documentary by ken burns and he was just. I don't know why he was talking about him, but I thought it was pretty sweet I mean you can't be talking negatively as somebody who nobody knows about. Even if you're gonna just down like talk poorly about somebody that no one knows about, I don't think that lands. I think he has to have some level of respect.
Matt:But anyway, so, needless to say, we were coming down here. John is really excited about this. I'm saying I can't believe we actually signed up for this tour. We're going to be put on a list somewhere. I was expecting protesters at the entrance. John's real excited. They tell us to get there 15 minutes early and we're running right on time. But man, we get down to Richmond In classic John fashion. It's me and John, and then one of the attendees of the bachelor party, mr r. We'll call him mr r. He was in another car because, long story short, so it's me and john, john being the worst navigator navigate, navigator of all time we get into richmond new city never driven there before.
Matt:I don't really know where I'm going. We're using.
Matt:Waze. I did no preparation for this specifically. This was John's job and I was getting very similar Harper's Ferry vibe Looking for parking. Couldn't find it. John, I'm driving through a new city. You'd think both people would be interested in getting to the right place. John's on his phone like oh, we got to go here, be interested in getting to the right place. John's on his phone like oh, we got to go here, we, we got to look it up. Stuff about the, the museum, making weird comments about the civil war, and uh, I missed the parking lot and we ended up having to park in a parking garage, which was okay, but it was just a classic. John's very excited. He's very worried about being one minute late to being 15 minutes early.
Jon:I'd be punctual. I guess it's my British side. I guess I got a little British in me, like being punctual to things. So we got there. It was a ghost town, Richmond. Don't know what people do there for a living, but maybe they must just run tours of the white house of the confederacy.
Matt:So we park well, your response was it is a friday, which I said.
Jon:Friday is still a work day, but whatever so yeah, so we get we, we, we park, we get to the white house. We have to go into like a you know a visitor center thing where there's a check-in and it's like one of your typical like gift, like civil war gift shops. They got stuff you know, books on the union, pictures of link, statues of lincoln, statues of robert e lee, can buy hats, can buy this or that. And what were we?
Jon:we were the youngest in this group, there's probably about by about 40 years by about 40 years, I think there was what 10 of us total in the group and, uh, we had this young person um by the name of. Can we put on blast here? Can we use her name?
Matt:I don't know if we know her name. Mr r thinks he knows her name, but I don't know.
Jon:If that was her name, well, we'll call her nadia, for the sake of the sake of moving it along here, and um, yeah, so she was probably like 26, which alone already I was just like I can't believe.
Matt:This is your job kind of like she just rolled out of bed. I hope she doesn't listen to the podcast, but that was my first thought. It's like she just woke up.
Jon:She was no, she was all business. Let's just put it that way she was 100% business, all business for not wanting to be doing business, if that makes sense. She was all business for no business.
Matt:So, like I said, this is part of the Civil War Museum and I get the feeling that you get assigned to do this tour like on, like similar to the the to do's kashusko museum. Like you know, you got you, you got the confederate white house tomorrow and she's like, oh, she couldn't just sleep on it.
Jon:She, you know, had a race through her alarm clock. Got up out of of bed, met us at 10 am sharp, yeah, and John is just giddy.
Matt:He's so excited.
Jon:He's got.
Matt:Shelby foot on the mind. That's all he's thinking about. Shane Gillis shouted him out. John's giddy.
Jon:Butterflies. I was really looking forward to it. I'm happy it was so kind of impromptu. But Nadiaia, she was just she was no, she meant all business. And so you know, we were getting a real quick. We're sitting in this room which is, you know, looking out the glass, and you're facing the back of the of the house, and so she's kind of giving a one-two like kind of the the once over of what the house was, and she was just, yeah, kind of telling it straight up and down the line. And so we walk into the foyer and you know it wasn't some like confederate kind of like sympathizer group.
Jon:It was just part of the civil war. Who, but you, pointed out a tree in the yard that was a gift from the marquis de lafayette when he visited and made his country tour in 1824. And that was still there, still growing. And then, yeah, we eventually made our way into the house and it was all me being ridiculous from there.
Matt:I was so excited, john was so excited. We get into the room and she's just, uh, the the beginning, just talking about frederick douglas and his um, you know his backstory or whatever, and you know right away, you know a woman says um, I think she, I think the tour guide had mentioned that he was from missouri. I believe um mississippi mississippi, sorry, I guess.
Matt:Um and uh, a woman in the audience says, um, oh, was he born in mississippi? And the tour guide said, well, no, but no, but he, he, he grew up there. So he, um, he always considered himself a Mississippian, I guess. And that's when John just buds in out of nowhere and says he was actually from Kentucky. Oh, he was from Kentucky. Just, you know, no one asked, no one asked, everyone was whatever. And then you could really tell. The tour guide was just like well, we got another one.
Jon:No, that's tbd and that's where mr r and you are not on the same page. And either she gave me a, either a death stare or a. I found, I found man of my dreams. I mean, I could, we? And we still don't know. I know, I know I'm probably more agreeing with you, but the fact that Mr R at least thinks that well, mr R doesn't good friend someone looking at I don't know.
Matt:I just feel like you have to be honest with your friends. And she was definitely like, oh my god, we got another one. Because her response was like, oh yeah, he was.
Jon:Yes, he was from kentucky, very good and then, from then on, I tried yeah, very good, no, you were not biting your tongue.
Matt:So then I go, I like elbow pictures. I elbowed john and I said, uh, will you calm down? He's like I'm excited, I'm excited. So I'm like, oh, brother, so then go into another room and she's talking a little bit more. And then she starts talking about the Peninsula campaign.
Matt:Now John's already opened his big mouth and acting like he knows more than the tour guide wanting to over talk her. So she's talking about the Peninsula campaign. She says, oh, yes, this was the room where they had met. We were in a room that they had battle papers out like maps and stuff. And she's like, oh, this is a room and this is a similar situation to where he would meet with the Secretary of War and his generals or whatever, and discuss the war. And this is where they discuss the Peninsula Campaign.
Matt:And she says is anyone familiar with the Peninsula Campaign? And of course she looks at John, because he already made a smart remark. And John says, oh, yes, I know a lot. Oh, yes, I know, I read the book about. I read Shelby Foote's book. I know a lot about the Peninsula campaign. She said, oh, okay, go ahead, why don't you tell us what it is. And John froze. His response was exact. This is word for word what John froze. His response was exact. This is word for word what John said. Oh yeah, the Peninsula campaign. It was where there was a peninsula and there was a campaign in the Civil War and the Confederates really wanted to win it and ultimately, you know, there was a campaign and it was on the peninsula.
Jon:In 1862.
Matt:She said very good, and then went on to explain it way better than everybody, than John did, like completely, john said nothing and she responded and I just said man, she just bodied you, dude, it was a hard box out and that was it. And that, I think, was the last time john said anything and that was the last time you interrupted and tried to act smarter than her. I think that's where you realize like, okay, this girl knows what's going on. I don't know more than her, I'm gonna.
Jon:I'm gonna just listen to her well, I did ask her if about jefferson's davis time as secretary of war under franklin pierce got her kind of stumbling there. She didn't really have much of an answer, but that's okay. Um, for some of our fans, jefferson davis while some of you may consider him a traitor, it's your prerogative he was secretary of war, uh, under franklin pierce. And I was curious to know because I'd read in a different book not the one by shelby foot that he was responsible.
Jon:Before the civil war there was a lot of western indian control and a lot of trying to kind of keep, you know, the western tribes in check, like the comanche and you know, try to kind of keep them under wraps. And he who has a Secretary of War, was responsible for kind of reinvigorating the Army and putting in these new processes and all this and that and better equipment and this and that. And I asked her I said do you know much about the idea of Jefferson Davis kind of outfitting the Army that would eventually destroy him? And she said I don't know too much about that and I said okay, and then well, I think the point that I'm making is you knew the answer.
Matt:You read it in a book. So you were just you classic move trying to. You were trying to teach her something by putting it as a question. You didn't't care about the answer. What was she going to say?
Jon:I was trying to influence other people in the room to think well, maybe he wasn't that bad of a guy.
Matt:You were trying to do her job for her.
Jon:They were already in the house, so maybe they already were like well, at least, oh, this looks nice Jefferson. Davis oh yeah, traitor, confederate guy. But I was trying to say to get a conversation between her and I so that for your benefit, mr r's benefit and everyone else in the tour could be like oh, this guy doesn't sound as you were trying to do her job for her.
Matt:That's what tour guys don't want you to do so long story short. So then we went through a couple other things. It was cool somebody busted the banister of, like the grand staircase in this house like before us, which so we had to go up the servants they call them the servant staircases. We went up there and so, luckily, you know, my thought was wow, thank God somebody broke that before us, because if it was about to break, it would have been one of us and we would have been in real trouble real but anyway.
Matt:So we go, we go through this house. It's just like you know. There wasn't much to. It was a nice house. There's a very succinct, well-organized tour. When john finally stopped trying to steer it in his own direction, when he let the tour guide actually do the tour herself the way that she wanted to do it and at the very end he didn't he pulled it again one last time. He said hey, do you know anything about the bread riots 1863? She was like no, I don't. I, you know, I know they happened.
Jon:I asked him. No, I asked him where, where did he stand out? It was like a balcony that he stood from during the bread riots. Because in the books, basically the women of richmond and across other states in the south during 1863 were beginning to riot for because of food prices, inflation and fighting a war, so bread was too expensive and they began stealing and this and that. And, yeah, they showed up to the white house demanding, you know, bread and he basically came out of a window and emptied his pockets and said, here, take, take all that I have, and he just kind of threw change to them.
Matt:Uh, it's like the miss the lady in happy gilmore here. Take this and get out of here, leave me alone. He's like what do you want from me? I'm just, I'm running. I'm in the war too. I'm leading it.
Jon:I don't got time for this yeah, the problem was, but I just remember reading the book that stuck with me, that part of the book stuck with me, so I was curious about it and she didn't know anything about it.
Matt:It's fine. My takeaway from it and this kind of leads to it is, I feel like the Confederates, really, the house was nice, it was a nice house. Big two thoughts were they went too nice, too quick. You know they were still trying considering themselves a you know burgeoning company or country. You know when, what country? Right, yeah, when, um, when the united states went into war with england, they didn't build a white house. Right, while george washington was living in a tent. They didn't even have a president at the time. Um, so I feel like they went a little too quick with their money on that one and it didn't have a good optics for maybe the women. So I kind of get where they were coming from, um, and also I think maybe they should have done had a different color. You know why have a white house? You know, oh, this, this is what we're trying to get away from. Why are we doing the same thing that they're doing anyway? Yeah, I think historically.
Jon:I definitely think I agree with that 100. I think when people look back at the confederacy that they see, oh, there was 11 states that made a another federal structure. I think it's easier for people to say, oh yeah, well, they were just. They were just traders, they wanted to compete with the United States. I agree with you.
Jon:I think they should have came out a little more humble maybe in just what they were kind of going for and this is an aside from the tour. But I still say that if the state seceded and remained independent and didn't form another federal structure with a federal constant, with a, with a federal constitution and, you know, represent like a congress and all that, if they just stayed as individual states, I think maybe history might give them a little more validity.
Matt:But you're right, I think because they came out with the white house, they got all the bells and whistles, all that stuff yeah, so let's, let's change the subject, but in summary of this whole trip, john ended up feeling obligated to actually apologize to the tour guide for being chooch Big time. That's pretty much how it went.
Jon:And for some reason I don't know why she made a point of saying she really wanted to hammer home. Maybe she was related to Jefferson Davis. Thinking about thinking about this right now actually she probably would have said that well, she was all business, as we know.
Jon:All business, no business, I think. So she made a point in the last room of the house at the end of the tour. Um, well, actually earlier in the tour she'd said that jimmy carter posthumously awarded him us citizenship. So when he died he was well. He was captured, uh, he was tried for treason, but they didn't actually, um, uh, convict him. And she made the point of saying part of the reason he wasn't convicted, along with other, you know, higher-ups like robert e lee and other. These individuals they say that because if they were basically convict them of treason, it would basically be, uh, indicative of of them saying that secession was legal anyway. So he didn't get, so he died without citizenship, us citizenship. He was not reinstated until Jimmy Carter in the 70s and we all know how Jimmy Carter likes his pardons and he posthumously awarded Jefferson Davis US citizenship. So she said that we have to remember that he might not wanted his US citizenship reinstated. So just remember that next time you talk about Jefferson Davis. And she made that point.
Jon:It was a mic drop, john needed to change his manière de voir after that statement I didn't think other people under the age of 50 could think like that beyond me. Not to toot my own butt, I was like whoa, is that a 20-something saying You're such?
Matt:an intellectual John. Is that what you want to hear?
Jon:No, I'm just saying she made a good point that makes you quite. I don't know why she said it. I feel like I don't think other than no one really in the tour was asking much about it. But she's like yeah, just oh, and remember like who said he really wanted his us citizenship back? Yeah, she just threw the hammer down, that was that so that's the white house and confederacy.
Matt:And we went out we saw there's a cool statue of george washington on a horse and has all the other like statesmen from virginia at the time, you know, around there. It's pretty cool statue. Um, that's near the I guess is that the capitol building yeah capitol building was cool.
Jon:Executive man. Current executive mansion of Virginia.
Matt:Yeah, that was cool. So you know, there was a little, there was some. There was probably a lot more to see in Richmond, but you know we had a, an appointment at a very important landmark in John's life and kind of a bit of a little bit of nailing history folklore. We went to Sherwood Forest, which was about a 20-minute drive, 20, 25-minute drive out of Richmond to Sherwood Forest, which is President John Tyler's presidency. Now, you may know John Tyler's, one of john's favorite presidents. Uh, we talked about his inauguration a while back where he had a bunch of you know, uh, you know some, some interesting aspects of his presidency, some accidents he was named the accident, whatever. Um, so, john, I actually, if people don't remember, and john, I was thinking about this, I was a little bummed you didn't bring it along with you, even though maybe you should have.
Matt:I did that when I got back here I did purchase john a silver coin commemorating john tyler's presidency. Um, I think that would have been pretty cool thing to show to um, our tour guide, but that's beyond the point. So Sherwood Forest if you want to go there, it's $35. So the White House I'm just going to be all out just to let everyone know about the money. White House of the Confederacy was $15 per person for the tour.
Matt:Sherwood Forest is $35 per person to tour the house. You can tour the grounds for $10 per person, I think, not per car, I think it's per person. It's an honor system there for touring the ground, so I assume most people don't pay. But the house tour is $35 a person. If you want to do it you have to call the Sherwood Forest Foundation. When you get the number off of their website that was made in 2002. And it looks like the website of the hamster dance people. You know, like the remember the hamster dance website back in like the 90s where the hamsters are doing like. It just reminded me that it's html.
Jon:It's so old school.
Matt:I think the only thing that they have updated from this website was the cost of the tour. And I called in and this is going back a little bit. I called in and the lady Just to give a little backstory. The lady answered. I said hey, I have a, I wanted to schedule a tour. She's like Okay, how many is it going to be?
Matt:And at the time we were maybe going to have 6 people with us on the bachelor party, so I said six. She's like wow. I said yeah, yeah. And she's like, okay, she's very excited. And then I said just. And she's like okay, you're all set, whatever, I set up the time. And she said okay.
Matt:And I said just, so you know, I'm bringing John Tyler's biggest number one fan down here, so be prepared. And she said, aw, how old is he, insinuating that this was an 8-year-old, 9-year-old? And I said, oh, 37. She's like, oh, okay, it was really funny. And I explained to her that we were going down there for a bachelor party and she loved that and apparently word spread because our tour guide also knew. I didn't talk to the tour guide on the phone. Our tour guide knew that it was a bachelor party, so I'm sure they had, uh, high expectations for us coming in. I never let them know that we were going from six to four, but or we actually went six to three, um, but I never said anything, so, um, you know whatever um, and I think he knew that, because we were supposed to give them a call a half an hour before we arrived on the ground.
Matt:Yeah, so the directions that we got. So this is how it started. So we had left the Richmond and we're heading there. We grabbed a quick bite to eat near Sherwood Forest and I call the guy, get his cell phone number and he answers like hello. I'm like hey, is this Tim? He's like yeah. I'm like hey, um, is this tim? He's like yeah, um. I'm like uh, oh, hey, uh, this is matt, I have a two o'clock appointment for a tour. And he's like um, yeah, like yeah, um, we're uh, just letting you know we're uh, I was told to call you half an hour beforehand and he's like you're not here yet, and this is like a half an hour before.
Matt:I'm like no, I was told to call you a half an hour beforehand. And he's like you're not here yet, and this is like a half an hour before. I'm like no, I was told to call you a half an hour before we'll be there, to just call you, let you know. So therefore, he's like all right, and I'm like. He's like how many are there? I'm like three. He's like okay, and hangs up and I I hung up and I'm like oh boy, like kind of killed the mood, ruined the lunch, um, because we were kind of in that then.
Jon:Then I felt like I was in a rush.
Matt:Then I was like, oh, there's no way we can be late. The directions we got gave us a 15-minute leeway. But after talking to Tim on the phone I'm like, yeah, this isn't a.
Jon:We gotta go, yeah, we gotta go.
Matt:So we rushed through lunch. I was doing a little bit of of work and I got rushed and flustered and messed that up, but whatever. So we show up to Sherwood Forest and we walk up to the porch and boy oh boy do we see the most stereotypical historic amateur, most stereotypical amateur history enthusiast that you can possibly have what's that?
Jon:docent, amateur dose what's that mean?
Matt:what's that it's?
Jon:like the. It's like a tour guide glorified name for a tour guide oh really, I've never heard that word are you sure is that the could be this guy's got baggy khakis on.
Matt:We see him from the back, baggy khakis, on a blue blazer, a hat and a glorious white ponytail coming out the bottom of this hat matching, matching cheeto dust on the once we got a closer look, he's got cheeto dust all over could have been pollen, but I I think we both agreed that it was cheeto dust and like hair and he just looked like the blazer was too big, the pants were too long, this hat he had a pin on to make himself look official but like from all that I could gather from talking to this guy, he just like mows their lawn and just like kind of worked his way into the family to like do this tour, um, and so yeah, great guy if he's listening love you.
Jon:Tim did a fantastic job, which we're gonna explain here in a minute. Yeah, so part of it. So we find out. I think we came to realize he was a little little testy on the phone because, believe it or not, we weren't the only people on this tour which might have been a shock to everyone involved.
Jon:I think the other people just showed up and they maybe did a cost-benefit analysis and said oh, like former president, I didn't know that. We were just driving, we were trying to get to Williamsburg, we were trying to drive down the peninsula or whatever. Oh, former president, john Tyler's house, let's stop in and see what we find. And they did a little cost benefit. Do we pay $10 or $35? Although, no, you had to call ahead, so all those people had planned to be there.
Matt:I'm thinking maybe, but I'm thinking he was there and there were people walking around and I think he just there's no way. Those people called ahead of time. I didn't ask him. But my thought is he just goes around and like, if there's people walking the tour, maybe he offered them like hey, I'm doing a, I'm doing a tour of the house in 35 minutes, like maybe. But then again, um, two people did walk up while we were in this tour and he just did try to get, he did try to sell that, but then he the way that, the way that he picked the way that he pitched.
Matt:It was like, yeah, you could do this a way higher price point and it was cash, only they could pay that.
Jon:You could pay the ten dollars fee through an app. It was like a scan the barcode. You could pay with a credit card, but the the the tour of the house was cash or check, so you literally go in the house.
Matt:It's a 19th century home.
Jon:You literally go back into the 19th century when you walk in the home in terms of paying for it he said, yeah, it's a higher price point and it'll take like two to three hours and these people were like oh yeah, no, we're good, and you could tell because we were walking, we couldn't pitch it worse, he definitely did not.
Matt:People were like oh yeah, no, we're good. They walked away and you could tell, because we were walking, you couldn't pitch it worse.
Jon:He definitely did not want them to come along, we walked up at that point to the classic like oh, what do you do for work? We walked up and he's asking everyone else on the tour, what do you do for work? And this one guy's like oh, I worked in export, or what did he say?
Matt:I don in export, or what did he say? I don't know.
Jon:Global trade Like real, like kind of cocky, and we got more on him later. But he yeah, but you know so we had a preschool teacher. He had a preschool teacher and I always appreciate that, seeing what she was going to bring to the table after our friend at the Kachuska Museum, I don't know if she biffed it.
Matt:Never asked us what we do for a living Never asked us.
Matt:Until the end. He asked Mr R, but he never asked. I'm guessing he probably figured we didn't have jobs. We're here on a Friday, not in Richmond. We're here on a Friday wearing Sheetz sunglasses, some Sheetz knockoff pit vipers that I purchased for everyone. Um, not looking the best, not looking the part. And um, so yeah, so we get there and um, he starts the tour. He said it was going to take like two to three hours. I'm like, ah, there's no way. There's no way. So he gets, he gets started. He's taught we're in the, we're so.
Matt:The house is, I think it's like the longest plantation, like in the in the country. Like it's long, it's like long and narrow. It's like if you took like a normal sized house and stretched it, um is basically what it is. And we were standing in the middle and he goes yeah, the house is 300 feet long. He's like that's the same length as a football field. So we're standing in the middle of it. So anyone here who's interested in football? From here to the end of the house, that's how long a 50-yard field goal is.
Jon:Got a lot of head nods out of that one, a lot of, hmm, interesting A little bottom lip out A little head nod.
Matt:I was like what? I was just like I'm what I look. I'm like okay, I sure I yeah, so I think that's exactly. You know, that is exactly why we came to tour sherwood forest is because we're interested.
Jon:But I think you specifically said that, because the tour began off of the balcony. So we're standing in front of the home, outside us the house, looking at the house.
Jon:I think we were specifically starting the tour there, so he could tell us that information because then, within five minutes, he's like, oh, we're gonna move up to the balcony now and they had like I'm looking at the picture they had like four or five like lawn chairs, like deck chairs out there, uh, and a couple benches. He's like, oh, we're gonna come up and stay here for a while so we're literally outside and then he takes us to the front porch there's flies, everywhere there's flies everywhere and like we're gonna fly around his face.
Matt:They were eating the cheeto dust off of his jacket. They kept hitting me in the leg. I was so uncomfortable. But when he said we.
Jon:So we walk up the first porch. He's like, oh, it's all right, we're to hang here for a little bit.
Matt:And we're thinking, okay, like cool, it's like he's just going to give us a quick like 10 minutes, maybe a five to 10 minutes.
Jon:A little history of the house or something.
Matt:Get into the home. We'll get into the house in five minutes. We're just sitting here, you know, taking it in whatever he so he offers everybody a seat, and me and John and Mr R we all say like, oh no, we're good, Because everyone else was older, there were seats for us. But I'm like I'll just stand, whatever, we're not going to be here long.
Matt:We can't be here that long. Mr R has a bum knee and he lasts about five minutes and then he finally takes a seat, and then I'm still standing and yeah, like takes a seat, and then I'm still standing and yeah, like john said, he proceeds to start talking about everything under the sun and like we're there for so long and then, like, it gets to the point where I can't take it. I feel like I can't take a seat because I've been standing for so long that now, like I've, the opportunity has lost, like you were lost.
Jon:Yeah, as soon as you sit down, he'll say, all right, well, now we're going in. It was one of those yeah, situations, but basically it was, uh, we weren't getting so much of the house he was. That was kind of his the history of john tyler, but with a very core focus on the election because, as our fans some, of our fans may know he was the first president to assume the office, uh, as a vice president.
Jon:So william henry harrison died. He was only in there for a month. He told us all of that we covered that.
Matt:We covered this in the. We could have just played the episode where we went over the like his inauguration the so stand history he just did a whole bit on the lead up to that. I mean he's talking about the campaign slogans, how this was the first modern election with using media songs and all this stuff and newspapers.
Matt:It's interesting stuff. He said it was the he. Also, I think he was incorrect in saying that this is something we talked about on the podcast. I think he said that it was the first um election where the common man was able to vote because they had switched it from only landowners, but I believe that was the election before that with andrew jackson I know jackson definitely was a major proponent of moving that in that way.
Matt:I think it was his, the second the re-election made. I could be wrong, but I thought it was, but that was the backdrop of it.
Jon:That was the backdrop that more men could vote. They basically did away with the property ownership requirement. And he made a point of saying that. Well, it's kind of a shame because there were some women in parts of Virginia that owned plantations and they did have the right to vote. I thought that was interesting. At some point there were some women who could have voted with the property requirement.
Jon:They owned property Technically. They had property in terms of land, not in terms of slaves or whatever other property like landed property. And then he said basically, yeah, with that new rule, and that's how those women lost the right to vote. But yeah, that was the backdrop. So, like with the election of 1840.
Matt:So we're standing on a porch getting like slapped with flies. I don't even know what these flies are, they're like flies I've never seen. Like we're in swamps. It's pretty like it was actually interesting. Like it's like swamp land down there which you wouldn't really expect. And I'm like it's like he's talking about all this stuff, like he's going way off topic, um, like and then doing the on your spot questions to the people.
Matt:And john, at one point like dimed me out, which he kind of I did deserve it because I've always said you should be talking about the podcast. So he did say this guy's got a podcast, ask him to pointing to me. And I just completely, just shut down and I totally wussed out and I was like I don't know and I just cowered and he's like get on the podcast. And I I just didn't, I just really wussed out there. It was just a weird vibe. It was a weird vibe. He was asking questions. You know he asked the question of like um, what the sandwich islands were, and you know he said like you have a podcast, what's the answer to me? And I'm like I don't know. And I said the Florida keys. He's like the Florida, what? I was like I don't know the Florida keys. He's like no, I don't know. Yeah and um yeah, so it was really.
Jon:but he also made a point of saying like the house. So he's a family friend and a major point of the major point of this house, it is the only continuously lived in former presidential home that is still lived in by descendants of that president.
Jon:So the home has been in the Tyler family since John Tyler lived in it and as of only a couple years ago, because now his grandson basically is not living in hospice but he has to live like kind of in a nursing home and he only comes back regularly. But John Tyler's great grandson still lives in the house, william tyler, and he made a point of saying that, uh, he's basically a 63 year old man going on 18 62 62 no he's 63.
Jon:No, he's 63, you're right, you're right it's just just cashing on that social security. I'm sure his great grandfather would be thrilled.
Matt:Yeah, he's like, he's like oh yeah, that section of the this is back when he was explaining the house. He's like oh yeah, that section, that's William's man cave. We can't go in there. That's his man cave. Oh, william, I'll tell you what. You see him. He'll come up here with his big truck, with his snorkel exhaust, and you'll know when he's here. He's 63 going on 18. Everyone's like okay, so basically this guy is just your typical Billy Madison-esque person. I would say Steamed like it.
Jon:That's how we conveyed him. I don't know we never met.
Matt:We never made him. That's how you conveyed him. Yeah, so you had.
Jon:William and then his father, who is Harrison Tyler. If you just search him on YouTube, the Today Show did interviews with him. Cbs Morning did a big thing years, few years ago with he and his wife. So yeah, he was like the guy is known as like the only he's a grandson of a president that was living in the 1840s. So just as crazy as math. But he made a point of saying all these, a lot of these stories that he would say well, mr tyler said and whenever he said mr tyler he was referring to harrison tyler, john tyler's grandson a lot of uh, you know, kind of folksy, you know family lore about it and was kind of going off that um, like way, like super tan, is that?
Matt:no one really cared about the one? Then, like he finishes all this stuff and then he's like okay. He's like okay, that's all I have for this is actually, unless you want to hear another story, you know I got one more for you and so I say like I'll hear another one. Like I wanted this guy to keep going, so then he told a story about how harrison was at the White House with FDR yeah, as a kid, he was born in 1928.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, and he was Because I guess he hosted former president's families or whatever. And I guess Harrison Tyler said something like he was like hey, you got any questions? Or something. And Harrison Tyler said, yeah, can you wrap this up or something like that. Something, some story like that which is like, which maybe was like yeah, can this be over like the tour please? So we walk in. Rule number one of this tour is no pictures inside the house, which is a weird thing. He claims that the reason for that is mrs tyler, who is now dead, didn't want anyone taking pictures of the house to catalog it.
Jon:I guess to steal stuff. But it's interesting because after this tour and just only a few days ago, I loaded up a two and a half hour long documentary that c-span had done in like 1999 and they literally had a tour guide in their home filming everything which is the same.
Matt:That you went to the house and then watch the two and a half hour documentary about that is like that's insanity to me. I was trying to prepare for the podcast, uh-huh sure so anything I forgot?
Matt:yeah, so, um, so we go in, john, there's a, there's a door knocker on there that has sherwood forest engraved in there and, um, we, the door opens and john, john takes his phone out to take a picture of the door knocker and I like slap his hand and I'm like no pictures. And he's like oh, I forgot, and uh, I gotta get a picture of that.
Jon:Technically I could have taken a picture of it before the door opened, because it was outside but not inside just a little.
Matt:Just a little side note that I thought was interesting. There was one question that john had that he didn't know about and we didn't have to ask it because it was answered um, the uh, uh, it's called to the. The plantation is called sherwood forest because john tyler's arch nemesis, henry clay. When john tyler finished his presidency, his one term henry clay said something like he can go back to the to. He can go back to his that criminal. What was it that?
Jon:crusader, you know that moral crusader, you know that moral crusader. Or whatever could go back to his Shorewood Forest, like get out of DC, you're done, you're washed up, you can go back to being Robin Hood in the Shorewood Forest and John Tyler really took a liking to it, so he named his plantation.
Matt:It's kind of cool. It's kind of like a middle finger to Henry Clay, like that name. So that's kind of cool. He's like yeah, sure, I'll call it that, Thank you.
Jon:I loved how much he One thing we said as we walked up too he's like Kentuckyans don't like coming here very much, and I knew exactly what he was talking about. He said anyone who likes Henry Clay would not be a fan of this house. Henry.
Matt:Clay's from Kentucky, yeah.
Jon:I got. I think what he actually said was oh yeah, well, you know, you were from Kentucky, we'd have real problems.
Matt:That is great. Making fun of him is awesome.
Jon:So we get in here and, like I got to say, we talked about this a little bit after the fact is like the house was a dump For being a lived in home of a former president that's actively doing tours every day of the week, monday through Friday. Like they're doing tours, they said, and they're having people come in and film or what have you. It needed some touching up for sure.
Matt:Yeah, like it was dusty, it was like needed a paint job, which I know it's cool that guy was there.
Jon:We saw a guy walk through it.
Matt:Covered in paint.
Jon:Right through the middle of our tour, stopped our tour guide, dead in his tracks, from explaining whatever story was going on. Oh, yeah, yeah, got that truck, you moving that truck. And the guy was kind of obviously in his task. He was just like doing his thing.
Matt:He was like mid-work, he had to turn, stop and turn around and be like doing his thing. He was like mid-work and turn around and be like, yeah, I'm going for it right now, like kind of, since anyway we him's like acting like he's running the show.
Jon:Yeah, oh yeah you got all that. Oh yeah, good, good, good and it was like but like it was cool.
Matt:There was some. There was just a bunch of trainers, very cluttered, they had a bunch of stuff there. They had some cool artwork, they had some cool stuff. There was they had the china from the White House that happened to be. It was William Henry Harrison's china. So when you that was a little cool story when you become president, you're given a certain amount of money to furnish Congress appropriates to furnish the house.
Matt:But since William Henry Harrison had died, they didn't give any money to John Tyler. They didn't have. They had already given it to William Henry Harrison, who blew it on whatever. So Tyler couldn't do it, but then he ended up paying for it himself, I guess.
Jon:No, he bought China. Congress appropriated funds to William Henry Harrison. They bought the China he and I guess maybe his wife wanted he died a month into office. Congress didn't have any more money to give, because they just gave it to the guy before and Tyler said we just use this. And then tyler's wife at that time and julia gardner he would eventually marry wall in office.
Matt:I think she began furnishing as well yeah, so they had, so they had, so they had that china. Though that was really cool. He showed that. Did you walk right up to it?
Jon:it was really nice it looked he kept like so tim was tim was a rule breaker, you know.
Matt:I mean, he was like they had a velvet, they had a, they had a velvet rope.
Jon:He was pulling it back, letting us walk it through the the door open into the kitchen, which was a no-go, which was off, yeah, so like so we so there was like maybe there were like three room, maybe two rooms that you could see.
Matt:That was kind of was the museum part of it. And there was another door that just happened to be open and Tim said, oh, that door should be locked. He's like, well, you guys want to go in and look at that? He's like, well, you podcasters you can't talk about this on the podcast, so promise me that you're not. And I said, well, I don't know if I can answer that right now To which that guy that John had alluded to, who had that real fancy job, turns around and goes. You better get an answer quick. You've been answering everything wrong all day for having a podcast. And I was like dead serious, he wasn't. I'm like okay, he was joking. Sorry, tim, breaking the rules.
Jon:He wanted to hang with the boys. He was there with his wife. He wanted breaking the rules. He wanted to hang with the boys. He was there with his wife. He wanted to be one of the boys in john tyler's house, which was a bachelor pad. When john tyler built the home, he bought it. It was like a bachelor pad, so he wanted to be one of the boys. He wanted to join the bash yeah, so so then, um, mr.
Matt:Then mr r then asked the question um, oh, so people live in that part of the house and then this part of the house they don't live, which Tim got very frustrated about and said no, I told you already, they live in the whole house, they live here. It's a lived-in house. And Mr R is like oh okay, sorry.
Jon:Well, he did kind of say that it was a very big home. It's the size of a football field.
Matt:I don't know if he told you already football field.
Jon:I don't know if he told you already, but uh, basically the family was so large. John tyler himself had 15 children eight from his first marriage, second, seven from his second marriage and the guy who lived in the house, william, so his great grandson. He came from. I think I was the the second youngest child of the 15 is what this line that's living in the house is currently. They basically said that at one point the house was split in two. One family was living on one side from the main entrance and another family was living on the other side. It was so big that they could just separate. I don't think that was any time recently. This house was huge and there's so many descendants. But we kind of just walked down this, this line and he showed a bunch of cool stuff along the way.
Jon:There was pictures of thomas jefferson, things from washington. In the main foyer, when you walk in, there was a really interesting stand which above it had had john's picture on it, the painting that the Union troops had tried at what prying from the ground, I guess. So yeah, the Union army moved in on the peninsula during the Civil War and they came to his house, didn't burn it down, but did take a bunch of things.
Matt:And I guess, because it was yeah, one thing thing that was cool remember the dogs that were at the, uh, the dogs at the entrance that were made of like cast iron, that they tried?
Jon:yeah, they were britney.
Matt:They were britney spaniels, I think, two dogs they were local virginian breed. That no exists, he well. Well, he claims they're extinct. But then when you ask like oh, when did they go extinct? He's like I don't know. I actually don't know if they actually went extinct. But yeah, the Union soldiers actually tried to steal those, but they got as far as the gate and dropped them because of how heavy they were.
Matt:They stayed there for years until I guess, till William finally got off his lazy 63 going on 18's butt to pick him up and get him back on there. So those were cool. Yeah, I mean, it was just. The house was just dilapidated, Not dilapidated. If you bought this house, you would have to do a lot of work before you would host people there. You're not bought this house. You would have to do a lot of work before you would host people there. You're not buying this house and bragging about it right away is all I'll say.
Jon:Yeah, it felt dusty.
Matt:Yeah, it was just dusty and whatever. So the tour, just to sum it up, the tour then ends in a ballroom, in a ballroom, and this is where the a real a real uh moment of the weekend had occurred.
Jon:so we're in this like long hall, which was a ballroom that john tyler, I think, himself maybe designed and he wanted to just kind of batch it up there. That's where he was. There's a ballroom. It was kind of lame, small. It was small but for the dance in the two-hour documentary I watched they did a dance performance. They showed the waltz, the dance he was talking about. I forget what it was called Virginia something or other. Two-step, wasn't that? And it's basically just you have a lineup on either side and then you just have a couple that kind of goes in between the two columns, and that's kind of why you just need a long haul for it.
Jon:And then you just kind of get to the end and then you're part of the line and then another couple goes down.
Matt:We could do that at your wedding, maybe. Maybe Could that be fun?
Jon:Yeah, that'd be fun, pay a little homage, and so we're in there. It's where the tour is wrapping up. He's got like a little nightstand with some books in it and you can buy some things, but it's at this point. We then paid for the tour and everyone's paying.
Matt:Well, so he showed so as part of the tour, as part of this ballroom. It was kind of. It was actually something interesting that I didn't realize is there were these mirrors on the wall and they had candlesticks attached to the bottom of them, and what he showed us was that you have the candlesticks outward and up against the wall during the day, I guess, and then at night, when you want to light up the room better, you moved them so they were then perpendicular to the wall and then the light reflected off the mirror to give more light into the room. So he had showed how that worked by moving the candlestick. So then, so this is where we pay. We paid with cash. We gave him.
Matt:I didn't know if you tip him. I was going back and forth, I had asked a couple people. You tip him, I was going back and forth, I had asked a couple people, and so I finally, just so everyone had left and it was just the three of us and him and I gave him the money, and then I said, hey, do you accept tips? And he said, well, sure, if you're given.
Jon:He snatched that 20, that Andrew Jackson, right out of your hands.
Matt:Which you know all $35 probably went right in his pocket anyway, I don't know, they had like a change purse in there, but who knows. But so we pay him and then he, you know, then again, so then it was just the boys, it was the three of us me, john, mr R and Timmy. Timmy Coyne, and you know he was, you know he was like hey, just you know. So why? John Tyler? Again, you know he was, he was very fascinated into why the hell we were there, basically, and he didn't really get the sincerity behind it, I think, just kind of surprised that we were there.
Matt:So, john Anser, I think his answer was he followed the Constitution, which our boy, ryan Powell, as we learned today, would also be a fan of. That reasoning that's a whole other story. But he starts talking about that and then he's just. Then he's talking about more stuff and like I'm like, dude, I'm done with this tour. I mean we're talking two and a half hours going through three rooms of a house. That's how wordy this guy is. It's. It was starting to get pretty old.
Jon:I think john even was getting a little little like I think he dimmed my enthusiasm for john tyler maybe a little bit. A little bit. So then he so then he's like doing that.
Matt:So then I'm like you know what? So I start walking. Then I like, I like break, I'm bored and I have add, so like I break away and I start walking through the, through the ballroom, just looking around, and I go up to one of these mirrors that have these candlesticks and I go look at this and they're originals from the 1840s.
Matt:So he's in the middle talking to Mr R about what he does for a living and I start touching this candlestick and as soon as I touched it and brought it to where the position it would be in to reflect off of the mirror, and as soon as I did that, Tim stops what he's talking about and goes hey, what are you doing?
Jon:Don't touch that? And to which Matt replied without a second to spare what you touched it. To which Tim responded yeah, but I know which one to touch. So I literally saw my 37-year-old best man give a 10-year-old's response to this museum docent. That's what he deserves, though let's be real, I mean, he kind of we cooled him down, I think he was still kind of cool after that like, oh you know, it's okay.
Jon:I was bored, I gotta touch things, oh. And then he said that, oh, I get bored, I start touching things when I get bored.
Matt:He also said that to him, and then Tim said yeah, I noticed you were like leaned up on everything in the door. I'm like Tim, you should take that as a little tip we're doing a solid.
Matt:Maybe you should, you know, make a little bit of a show To compare the two. The White House and the Confederacy was a great, well-done, well-prepared, I think it was even like 45. It was very well done, exactly how you would want it. And then this one was just a mess. It was like a mess of a tour. The house was trash and the tour guide was just. He finally had people listening to it.
Matt:You could tell this guy doesn't have anybody to talk to like any time, that he's not doing this tour. Um, but it was funny and yeah. Then he he like wouldn't let it go. He was very upset and we walked out and he's like is there anything wrong with it? I'm like, tim, it's fine. What, what do you? What do you expect it to do? Which john was actually? I thought john would have been like, yeah, I don't know why, but John was a little upset that I touched it too. I didn't think anything of it. I mean, if it was fragile, just put rope around it. There was no velvet rope around those mirrors, it lived in home Moodle lived there.
Jon:So you can't touch it. I think you got possessed by the ghost.
Matt:Yeah, that's haunting the halls that he said was plastered.
Jon:So there's apparently a picture, a face of a woman that he says has been painted over, plastered over, and it keeps just punching through, and I don't believe it. Somebody fell and broke their neck on one of the staircases, I don't know. It's been haunted ever since.
Matt:So then we took then we took a tour of the grounds. We walked around a little bit and then, as we were leaving, we saw Tim. So this was like we took like maybe another like 15, 20 minutes to walk the grounds. There's not really that much to see, it's kind of some of the stuff's kind of cool. And then we see him walk and like literally like he walks into the woods and like all that I can compare it to is like you ever see the movie legend of bagger Vance John with Wilson.
Matt:He's like a caddy, it was like at the at the end of that movie, like bagger Vance's walks away and like disappears Cause like I guess he didn't really exist in the film. Is that the okay? Like that's kind of what happened with Tim. He walked into the forest just like oh, that's it.
Jon:It was like it almost didn't even happen, tim, but to just return the next day for some other poor saps having a tour Three-hour long tour, a three-hour tour I mean, I feel like Gilligan would have been better off staying on the island than having a tour of Sher. I feel like gilligan would have been better off on staying on the island than having a tour of sure it was.
Matt:I mean it was fun. I was glad we went. It was definitely a bucket list item for john and it was kind of that was the main reason why that was like. Well, I guess it wasn't really what got us down there, because I just like had saw the, the historic triangle, I'm like, yeah, that'd be cool to go to. But then noticing that Sherwood Forest was right, there is kind of like a no-brainer to get down there.
Matt:Well, it's like a no-brainer, Like, oh okay, Not only is that, but if Sherwood Forest is there, we might as well do it. This is like a one chance we can do it. It's a little bit of a commitment. Yeah, so the time we did it, Like I'm saying, the house is just a dump. They could do so much work and for $35 a person, I feel like they could be putting that money to better use. I mean you Well.
Matt:So you signed a guestbook at the end of the tour and I didn't want to put my name down. Neither did Mr R Jon put his name down. I didn't want to put my name down. Mr R put his name down. I signed it to do's Kosciuszko and Tim knows my name because I had signed up for it and he kept looking at the guestbook while we were there and I'm like, oh, my god, he's gonna see I put a fake name. He's gonna see I put a fake name. He never said anything. But yeah, I signed it to do's Kosciuszko and it was dated. And the reason I bring that up is like there are people who take this tour fairly often. I think the people who were there, the last people signed were like two days before us. Yeah, that's every day of the week. I mean they offer it. I mean you have to schedule it. I assume that's why they don't get a lot of people. But I mean mean they must make. They bring in a decent amount of money with this 35 dollars and I think it just goes half into timmy's pocket and half into william's, you know fan cave projects and duck stands which he had scattered
Jon:around tree stands. There's a big deer problem on sherwood forest apparently, but yeah, I had a lot of fun it was. It has been on my bucket list for some time. Lauren g can even attest to that. Um, yeah, he's one of my favorite presidents interesting family history, the fact that it's still in the family. The house needs a little tlc, but I think I think tim, tim and co will will eventually get around to it. So, yeah, that was it, and so by the time we wrapped up there, it was right on four o'clock, uh, on friday night we were able to get to our airbnb, uh, which was cool. And then, uh, our fourth member, mr w, showed up friday evening. He flew down from boston all right, fans.
Matt:Um, that is it for day one of this fantastic bachelor bash experience. Um, john and I went a little over time, as usual, but I just couldn't cut out any of those fantastic details that we just went over from the two stops that we had, so I figured we'd split this up into a two-parter. If you guys have hung on this long, godspeed or you know, I don't know what you say, but thank you and we're going to end this and then, you know, next week come on back and we talk about the historic triangle of Virginia, which, to tease it a little bit, was a joke. So we had a lot to say, as you can tell, we kind of. What we realized is I don't think John and I will ever do anything and not think that we could do it better, even though we can't.
Matt:You'll hear a lot of that next week. I don't know if we really got to it much this episode, but yeah, come back, listen to us next week, and I hope you guys enjoyed the details of a trip that you weren't on, so I hope we made it interesting for you. All right, I got hairy legs. Come on, man, and we say bye-bye.