139: He Wanted Paris, Got Prison, And Sang On The Gallows

We ring in 2026 with fan calls, a messy production catch‑up, and a deep dive into Death by Lightning, using Garfield’s rise and Guiteau’s delusion to unpack the Gilded Age spoils system and a presidency undone by infection as much as a bullet. Chester Arthur’s surprising turn toward reform gives the story its heart.

• 1880 convention deadlock and Garfield’s dark horse nomination
• The spoils system, stalwarts vs half‑breeds, and Roscoe Conkling’s machine
• Guiteau’s forged notes, Blaine’s rebuke, and the psychology of entitlement
• The shooting, germ theory, and fatal medical error vs the bullet
• Alexander Graham Bell’s failed device and the autopsy dispute
• Arthur’s pivot from patronage to civil service reform
• Missed chances in the show: the trial, self‑defense, and “I am going to the Lordy”
• Our field trips, fan shoutouts, and what’s coming next

This episode is brought to you by the Strava app: if you sign up for a premium subscription and use the code nailed it, you get nothing off, but we get a kudos

Transcript

New Year Cold Open & Jefferson Nod

SPEAKER_04 0:21

Hey, check one two. Check one two. Hey fans. Welcome to the year 2026. 250 years since the great Thomas Jefferson, however you may think of him, may not have lived by his ideals, may have lived by his ideals, may have died penniless and leaving his debt to his family. Who really knows what happened there? But 250 years since he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Um, sorry for the delay. I think when we left you last, we had just finished talking about our trip to Charlottesville. It was a fun trip. And we owe you a couple episodes. We got a couple in the can. I'm having still dealing with the um what do you call it? The uh effects of having our Google account removed for a portion of the time. I seem to be having difficulty transferring stuff that we had recorded on a different account to this account, and I'm I'm going through it, so I'm trying to figure it out, but I uh I've just been it's been uh haven't really wanted to face the uh the work of editing these episodes down. It's a lot more work than you would think, and I I will fall on the sword on this this time. Um it's not a hundred percent John. It's New Year's. I wanted to go through IO some things. Uh I'm by myself right now. I'm just getting ready to edit this episode, this upcoming episode, and I just wanted to uh get some get some stuff out. Uh let's see here. Um fan mail. We got um a message from October 13th from our friend Dick Pepperfield. Um, it's been too long, boys. I have to call you out though. You said you have nothing to talk about. Last I checked, this is a history podcast, not a current events podcast. You have the entirety of history to talk about. I do like how you somehow become akin to the Galaxy Quest Historical Documents for Africans. You could probably do a pod tour there and be treated like gods. Ken Burns is going is doing the pod tour circuit, so have your people reach out and get them on quickly. I will be tuning into this series if you are covering it. I think he's talking about the Ken Burns documentary, which is upcoming. I will, this is subtext, sorry. Prof bets to follow. That's for the Ken Burns documentary that we discussed in the episode that he is responding to. I'm very excited about Death by Lightning. I demand you do a four-part episode on this as it looks amazing and ripe for content. This should be pure nailing history of fuel. McFadden is a legend and will crush as gateau. So this episode we will be talking about uh death by lightning. It's just one episode, though. We did not do a four-parter, didn't want to commit to too much, and you know, we tend to drag things on too long. So just one episode to talk about the four, one podcast episode to talk about the four parts of that Netflix production. Um, and that's what you will be hearing here shortly. Um we got a new fan. Uh by it goes by the name Tim Kramlin. Um, this is from October 16th. First time, long time. Appreciate you two co-hosts being back in action and loving the after dark vibe. It's good feedback. Subtext. Stealing a popular idea, but what about making a nailing history themed bingo board for Kenny Burns new documentary rather than doing over-under? Keep up the good work and stay curious. Stealing that since John is giving it up. Boom. Tim Kramlin. Tim, great idea. We did not get to it. We did not, we did watch the documentary. We have that series. It's a series of podcasts. We did three episodes. Um, and we have that in the can, ready to go. Having brought myself to start editing that similarly to this upcoming episode, but I needed to get this fan mail out. We appreciate it. That was a good idea. The bingo board. I thought that would be something that would be fun to do, but the documentary came and went and just didn't get to it. So maybe you should have done it for us, Mr. Kramlin. That would have been nice. Um, yeah, just wanted to say thanks for both the fan to the fans um for being here. Um, I was thinking, let's see. It is a let's just see if we can get John on the line here.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

Maybe we can uh get his get his uh his take here.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

Hey John, it's Matt here, uh your co-host with the Nailing History Podcast. Hey, I uh I'm doing a little intro for our death by lightning, a little intro to the death by lightning episodeslash uh year recap and just kind of getting all of our thanks out. So I wanted to give you a call.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Okay. I might have to call you back. Uh I got a meeting in the top of the hour.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Oh, that's plenty of time. Why did you answer?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Obviously it's a guy.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Oh man, this is a tough well skip the meeting. Tell 'em you're busy.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

I wish I could. I wish it were that easy.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

All right, big dog. Well, call me. How long's the meeting?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

30 minutes, 40 minutes.

Listener Call: Tim Kramlin On Favorites

SPEAKER_04 6:21

I guess I'll have to ramble for 30, 40 minutes. Uh not too hard. All right. Good luck. All right, fans. So you heard that. So let's um while we're waiting on him, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to ramble for 30 to 40 minutes, but uh let's see if we can get some fans on the call on the line and maybe get their uh favorite moments of the year here. So let's try uh see if we can get anybody to answer here. Yo. Hey, is this Tim Kramlin?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Is this Tim Cramlin? What's up?

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Hey, uh, just this is Matt for the Nailing History Podcast. How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Sorry. It's going good. You can edit that part out, my bad.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

I didn't hear what you said, so it's that's good. Um uh how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Hey, just uh happy new year, happy 2026.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Happy New Year. I feel like it's been over a year since you guys put out a pod. I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Well, that's what I'm getting to. I'm kind of I'm finally getting to editing some of our episodes that we have in the can. And uh doing a little intro, and I just wanted to uh call our call our top fans and wish them a happy new year and thank them for listening. So thanks for listening. And I just want what was your favorite part of the podcast this year?

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Oh, that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Wow, you think what there's not enough. No, I I think all I think all of them are equally good. Oh, that's a cop-out answer.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

You have to say one specific bit that you liked this year.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Um, I think I liked the bit of your co-host, or sorry, I guess the host of the show, John, saying uh in the Google, um in the Google episode. Oh, I didn't realize I got a notification.

SPEAKER_04 8:27

Oh, that he was the that he was part of the problem. After letting me after letting me uh uh yes, uh uh what's the word? Yeah. For like the whole episode for like 20 minutes I went off on Google and then he said it was his fault. So that was interesting. That was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

That was a good one. Yeah, I like that one, but I do think that uh you know the whole I also like the assassination episode. I can't what was that this year? I like that one as well. And I think that you know they were I think Netflix is listening in you.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Yeah, well, you're your fan mail. Oh, go ahead. Well, your fan mail said that you're loving the after dark vibe.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Oh, yeah. Yeah, who doesn't want to cut loose a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah. I like it. I like it. I I feel I feel like John's a different different uh host on there too.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

Yeah, it's just tough. You gotta lose it's tough. You gotta record on like a Friday night so you're feeling the vibes, you know. You try to record you try to record an after dark episode on a Sunday afternoon. No one's in the mood for that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, you have an adult beverage or two. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

21 and over. We're 21 and over. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, I just wanted to check in to find get get get your uh input and say sorry for not getting back to you in your family. I did read it, it's pretty expired as far as the context, but I still read it to the fans.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Well, I very much appreciate that. So I appreciate the good work that you guys that you guys do, and I'm looking forward to hearing more of it.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

Did you uh get back in a group? Make any New Year's resolutions?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Uh I generally don't do a New Year's resolution, but I will say one thing I'm trying to do this year is be a little more active.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Like on the pod?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

No. I mean, well, I mean, if I can find uh if I can find time on my busy schedule, I would I would always be open to uh you know I know you do have a busy schedule, I know. But exact exactly. Working hard.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Well, you know, join an app like Strava. This episode is brought to you by the Strava app, actually. We're sponsored by them now. Um if you sign up for a premium uh premium subscription and use the code nailed it, you get nothing off, but we get a kudos. That's pretty awesome. Sign up for you guys, and for them. Sign up for the uh Strava premium and set yourself a goal, Mr. Pramlin. Set yourself a goal and stick to it. I came up 170 miles short of my goal last year on Strava to give everyone an update, but I had a couple issues. I had some I flew I had the flu, um had some uh calf issues throughout the year, starting on Valentine's Day. I remember spending an evening at the gym by myself. Well, not by myself. There were a bunch of lonely hearts over on the gym on Valentine's Day, and I hurt my calf that day, and it took a while to get back uh back up and running. But then I did, and then I had a tendon, uh calcific tendonitis in my shoulder. So I had the excuses built in, but I did still come up short.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

I love it. But yeah, it's like goals that are hard to reach, too. So sometimes you gotta push yourself.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

It's all right that you came up short and you'll do it this year, man. I believe I believe in you.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Thanks, man. Um well that's good. That's a good New Year's resolution. Hey, have you ever heard have you ever heard uh that it's good luck for at midnight to eat 12 grapes under a table?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

No, I have never heard that in my life.

Traditions, Luck, And The Grapes Story

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Just recently heard about this. It was it's like you get under the table, a table, and I don't know if it needs to be green or purple grapes, but you get on the table and you're supposed to eat one grape for at each strike of like the bell. It's like an old school tradition from Spain, apparently. So like it's like 12 grapes in 12 seconds, which like I feel like that end you could certainly die from choking on those grapes, I would think. I mean, 12 grapes in 12 seconds, that's impossible. Oh, I I would say it's probably impossible.

unknown 13:03

Right?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

That sounds like good, that sounds like a challenge for the host. I think you guys should I think you guys should come out.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

The thing is that if you don't do it, so this is what this is what happened, so the conversation kind of got started because I made pork and sauerkraut yesterday, which was it's good luck. It's a it's a I think it's a German tradition or Pennsylvania Dutch tradition. I'm not really sure if it's a specific culture because like I always thought that everybody knew that, but as I grew older, I realized not everybody does that.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yes, that that's one that uh that's one that my family does as well.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

It's good. I made it fifty air, but that's supposed to be good luck, and I did make it. I would argue that making pork and sauerkraut is easier than eating 12 grapes in 12 seconds. But my thought was the whole time I was making this pork and this is the first time I ever made it, and like it's pretty easy. You just throw sauerkraut, and I threw some apples and onions and some brown sugar in in a crock pot and then like a pork loin on top and just set it and forget it. Um but I was worried because it like I didn't know when it was gonna be done, and I didn't know if you could overcook things in a crock pot. So I didn't know, and like, but uh so I it I don't know, I read directions and they were like leave put it on high for an hour and then leave it on low for five hours, but I didn't know if that was a minimum or a maximum. And anyway, the whole time I'm like, well, if I mess up the pork, is that bad luck? So then I was like, why did I even try it? Because if it's I could I would have been maybe I would have been better off just doing nothing. And then that made me start thinking. Then when I heard about this grape thing, I'm like, well, if you don't, if you try the grape thing and then don't do it, is that bad luck? I can't deal with bad luck. But the pork came out okay, so I think we're I think I'm in for some good luck this year.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So you just all you have is pork and sauerkraut, though? Do you do any like uh mashed potatoes? Like mashed potatoes, I was inside mashed potatoes is that's what we yeah, yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

All together and I had some bread, but I didn't have any butter. I bought bread, like a like a nice Italian baguette, but then I didn't have any butter, so you just missed uh cultures ever.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

I guess that's what I get. I mean, what are you supposed to do? What's what other German side is there? Exactly. Pensacana.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

It's not a whole like a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

Uh green beans, I don't know. But yeah, so that was good. So yeah, so I don't know. I was surprised to hear that tradition. So that was um good.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, that's that's new one to me, too. I've never heard that one. Well, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Do you know what? Do you know where that comes from? Spain.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

And you know what?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

It's actually pretty funny. I should know about that then.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

I guess this would have been a good podcast or podcast talk, but I looked it up and I thought it was funny because I got it here. I took a screenshot. The tradition dates back to at least 1895, but was greatly popular popularized in 1909. In December of that year, some Alicante Alec Alicante won vine growers spread this custom to encourage grape sales due to overproduction during an excellent harvest. So it was a cash grab in 1909. Right? Like, oh my god, we have all the oh, we have all these extra grapes. Let's tell everybody it's good luck if you eat 12 grapes and I would love to know. Like, I'm wonder if there's like a death statistic of people choking on the grapes. There's more than one. There has, I bet there is. Somebody in the history since 1909 has died from trying this grape thing. Had to have.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Yeah, so especially if you had to do 12, yeah, 12 and 12 seconds.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

12 and 12 seconds is impossible. How do you you have to swallow?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, I feel like you gotta like uh did you ever play chubby bunny as a kid? Like I feel like you gotta chubby bunny in a little bit and just like pack them all in.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

I've never played chubby bunny. Sounds interesting.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

You take marsh you take full-size marshmallows and you see how many you can fit in your mouth, but you have to say chubby bunny.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yeah, but you have to eat them though. I feel like you can't have them left over in your own.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

But I feel like you gotta like pat but I feel like you and then eat them after that.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Like eat them at the twelfth second. Rather than trying to eat one in one second. Just eat twelve and at the twelfth second there, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Possible. Yeah. That's possible. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I'm like, I feel like the challenge for for you and John.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

I g I mean it's too late now. I guess we'll have to wait till 2027.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah. Well, if you're worth good luck. I mean, you can do the challenge at any time.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

True. And then you're not ri maybe then you're not risking having bad luck if you don't do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Exactly. You just have the risk of death. So, yeah. I don't know. Crazy.

Quick Calls To Fans And Shoutouts

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Well, let me ask you this. If you were to do it, would you do green grapes or or purple grapes? Purple. Easy. They're smaller. And they're better.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

I don't know. I'm not a big green, I'm not a big green grape, uh.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

Have you ever had cotton candy grapes, though?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

They're good. And they're fine and small. But they're they're way too big to do this challenge with. Yeah.

unknown 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Yeah. I guess you could do purple grapes. Plus, I mean, I think we're assuming I feel like I'm kind of talking out of school here, but if you go to like a have you ever been to a vineyard?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Um, only to buy wine. I've never actually like gone into the vineyard.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

But have you seen the vines? Because I feel like maybe grapes that are used for wine are like really small, like blueberry size.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

You know. And then if that's the case, I mean I could see. I could eat I could eat 12 blueberries in 12 seconds. Well, I don't know. I don't like blueberries. They're gross. I mean, I like them with a bunch of sugar. I like them with a bunch of sugar, but otherwise. With sugar? Well, like I'm saying, like in blueberry pie. I like blueberries. But like by themselves, they're like gross.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, I'm generally not one of just like popping a blueberry with nothing else. Right, exactly. But you put it in muscle, you put it in bread.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Yeah, but that's yeah, they're all sweetened up. Like you can sweeten up, but like without without any sweetener, I don't know, they're they suck. But anyway, I but if I did like Grapes, I could or if I did like blueberries, I could probably eat twelve of them. They're also 12 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

They're also real soft, too. I don't know who's choking on a blueberry.

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Well, yeah, they're small and they're soft. You're right. And then I also don't know, like, I think you need to like pop like like the bell rings, one grape. The bell rings, one grape. The bell ring. You can't just like put a bunch in your mouth like at midnight and eat 12 of them right away. You have to. It's like it's like one, it's like one grape per second, not 12 grapes in 12 seconds, if that makes sense. It's like one grape per second for 12 seconds, not 12 grapes in 12 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

In. Yeah, yeah. So okay, so I mean I guess you couldn't like pack it in like you would with uh mouth. What was it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

What was that game?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Oh, chubby bunny. Chubby bunny.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

You heard it here, fans.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

It's a great uh great fireside, fireside game.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Uh all right. Well, I just wanted to, I got I'm I got a couple other people to call. You're the first one. Well, I talked to John. Um, I was trying to get him, but he had to get off for a meeting in like two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

So uh I know.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

I told him to bail on it, but I guess he couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah, exactly. I mean, what who's having a meeting on January 2nd? That's crazy. I know.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Ridiculous. No.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Well, you know, you you tell you tell Dick Pepperfield I said what up.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

I will. I'll see if he answers. I don't know. I'm gonna I'm gonna try Dick Pepperfield, I'm gonna try Brian K, and I'm gonna try Emily M. Alright. So thanks a lot, Tim Kramlin or Andrew S, however you want to be known on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Whoa, just giving away my just giving away my identity. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

Well, you've already been on. You're you're uh you're a serious show regular at this point.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. I've been on a couple times.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Yeah. So all right.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Fair point.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

Well, happy 2026 and be looking forward to some uh be uh be looking for us in the uh in the old uh podcast queue next couple weeks.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Alrighty. Thank you, sir. All right, dog burn.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

All right, later, dog. See if Dick Pepperfield will answer here.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Sweet voicemail. Hey, Dick Pepperfield, it's uh Matt from the Nailing History Podcast. Uh I'm gonna bleep out your name so that uh your alias remains uh untouched. But just call on to wish you happy uh 2026 and thank you for the listening, the listens, and the the the feedback and the fan mail and hoping you have a healthy and wealthy and wise new year.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

Hi, is this Brian K?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

No. Now Yep. I wish I had time. I do not.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Well, I was just calling to say happy new year and thanks for the listens.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Oh, appreciate it. Can't wait for the for the next pod.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

All right.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

All right.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Somebody's cranky.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Later.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

Oh man. I guess I'm not this isn't the best timing, I guess, but it's okay. You know what I know for a fact Emily M isn't available. I guess I didn't pick the right the best time to do it. Anyway, fans, we had a good talk with Andrew S. Um. And uh Brian K just sent me a follow-up text message saying I'm always cranky at work. Hey, you know, whatever gets you through the day, Brian K. That's cool. Uh hopefully our podcast will help you be uncranky as we come into the the new year. So I guess that's it. I don't want to keep everybody on for too long. I've been talking for a little bit too long here, longer than I expected. But um I'm hoping John calls me back and I can get him on and we can go over some of our favorite moments of the podcast for the year.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

And uh yeah, we'll uh we'll we'll touch base then again.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

All right, fans, it's been two calendar days since I last talked to uh the host John N here, who promised he was gonna call me back, and he never did, so um, let's call him and see if uh he's doing okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Please leave your message for Jonathan.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Hey, John N, it's Matt, uh, your co-host here with the Nailing History podcast. Just checking in since we haven't heard from you in two calendar days since you said you were gonna call me back. Uh, we're a little worried, the fans are a little worried. Um, and I guess, you know, well, I mean, I guess at least this is giving the fans a um insight into what I deal with trying to run this show um on a weekly basis. So uh hope you're doing okay. I guess the show will have to go on without you. All right, fans. Maybe we will have to uh I don't know, maybe we'll see if he decides to call back at any point soon. Um otherwise we'll just have to release this episode without hearing about his year in review. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Alright, fans. I think we got John on the uh on the pod here.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Hold on.

Year In Review And Field Trips

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Hello? Hello? Hey what's up? Not much. Did you get my mouse recording? Yep.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

It has welcome back. Thanks for calling me back. You got it. Two days late, huh?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Hey, early than ever.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

Well how I was just I was worried about you, so I just wanted to check in. Just, you know, living life to the fullest. Just couldn't call just couldn't find the time to call back for 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah, it was a little touch, it was a little touch and go.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

Yeah? Yeah. Or are you still in the meeting that you had? I don't know. Meetings let out. Meeting has let out. It just let out. Is that why you couldn't answer before? Yep.

SPEAKER_05 28:10

Get me locked in.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

Well, happy new year, John. No, we weren't. I was just uh checking in. We called a couple fans. Um called Andrew S. Had and we had a nice little chat with Andrew S and uh called Brian K at work and Dick Pepperfield didn't answer. So was Brian K in a meeting too, or no, he just said I can't do this right now. I was just getting prepared to uh I was um editing the uh death by lightning episode, which is what's following up after this conversation for the fans, and uh figured I wanted to wanted to record an intro. I have since fans, I have since gone through it. When I've when I first recorded, when I first called you, I hadn't gone through the death by lightning episode. And uh I have now gone through it, and you guys could probably skip this one. We tried to do too much morning commute. We tried to do we tried to do too much in in one recording, I think. We were pretty white by the end of it. We'll never learn our lesson.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

But anyway, anyway, how were your holidays?

SPEAKER_05 29:31

Holidays were fun. Had a chance to spend it with family, some good food, some good old good old-fashioned uh ham loaf from uh proud Pennsylvania Dutch uh that are in Shady Maple, Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Shout out. It was pretty good. About a cup of sugar, ham mashed together, shaved into a loaf and baked.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Did you get any cool who's who is that in the background? Oh, uh let's uh Lauren N.

unknown 30:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Hello Hi, Lauren N. Welcome back to the show. Happy New Year.

What’s Next For The Show

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Thanks. Happy New Year, passing it back to John.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

Yeah. John, did you get any did you get any cool gifts in the mail or anything?

SPEAKER_05 30:20

I got a little something something. What was it? Some fans might describe it as a finger puppet. With the in the likeness of our third president, Mr. Thomas Tommy J. Jefferson.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

That's a pretty cool gift. What are you gonna do with it?

SPEAKER_05 30:38

Well, there's a magnet on his head, so it actually is on my fridge right now as we speak. Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

That's a good gift. That's a great gift.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

I guess Santa was listening.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

I guess Santa's a fan of the show.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Santa is listening. Uh he had my name. He called my number. Although he might have made a misdelivery. I think it was I think it was uh written out to a Ricky Wong. I don't know if it was set to the correct address or not, but maybe it was from Ricky Wong. That's a little more likely. He's a big American history buff.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

Oh boy, oh boy. All right, well.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

That was your Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

It was okay. I didn't get any gifts in the mail from fellow co-hosts, podcast co-hosts, but that's okay, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Yeah, but you're going on a big trip with your with your fellow co-host, if I hear correctly.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

Lauren N's really uh really eavesdropping in on the conversation here. He's sitting right next to me. Oh. I thought he was in a meeting. I thought he just got out of a work meeting.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yeah, just out. Hey. We do it a tough out here.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

So what I was asking the fans is like, what was your favorite moment of this year, the the nailing history this year, John?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

I would say uh had to be our field trips.

SPEAKER_05 32:01

Yeah. Which was I don't know if that actual recording of the podcast is telling analyzing those trips was necessarily a highlight, but the actual trips themselves. I would say going to Williamsburg and having the door shut in our face uh right at five o'clock as we're trying to enter the House of Burgesses has to be a highlight.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Yeah, that was a yeah, a low light or highlight, however you want to uh want to describe it.

SPEAKER_05 32:25

The peanut soup.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Oh, yeah. It was a good year for it was a good year for for trips, not so much of a good year for recording content, I'll say that much. Got our Google account taken from us. I think we only recorded like 10 episodes this year. Definitely getting a good return uh ROI here with the uh podcast equipment and the subscriptions. Which you still you still you still owe me$17 for the uh descriptor uh memory.

SPEAKER_05 33:02

If I recall correctly, I sent it to you.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Did you? I think I did. I don't think you did. Anyway, what can the fans expect this year from the podcast, John?

SPEAKER_05 33:20

A couple a couple uh you know, a couple surprises, a couple uh shot in the darks, you might say.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

Oh yeah, like what?

SPEAKER_05 33:32

Might be taking another trip. Netflix might be releasing another show that we could watch and talk about.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

God, I hope so. We did such a good job, as the fans will hear in the next couple uh minutes here.

Setting Up The Garfield–Gateau Recap

SPEAKER_05 33:48

Um you know, just maybe we'll read a book, maybe we'll start a book club sort of thing. Something our fans can follow along with.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

Maybe we get, you know, with this whole uh invading Venezuela situation we got going on here, maybe we can have some uh Monroe Doctorate talk.

SPEAKER_05 34:06

A little bit, a little talk. Reminds me of a college paper I did on the Cuban Revolution.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Cool, I'm sure it was very good. Do you still have the paper? Maybe we can just maybe we can just read it to the uh fans. Well, it's probably it's probably published. I would hope so. Wait, is it high school or college?

SPEAKER_05 34:27

It was a high school, it was a high school paper. I remember I got credit for it in Brit Lit and Spanish class. I think we got a two for one.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

Oh, yeah, I remember that one.

SPEAKER_05 34:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Good for you. Yeah, Cuban Revolution. Come a long way since then. Picked the guy, what picked him picked him up in uh in a matter of minutes, it seems like. Oh yeah. If Fidel was a little more, uh little luckier.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

But yeah. Could be interesting. No, I I would argue it's none of our business, but that's okay. I think some may argue that.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

I mean, the oil's not going to come out of the ground by itself.

SPEAKER_04 35:08

No, it's not about oil. It's not about oil.

unknown 35:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Or they're mineral reserves.

unknown 35:14

No.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

Who said something about oil? You cook it over there?

SPEAKER_05 35:18

Speaking of that, yeah, might need some. Might need some of that oil.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

I don't think I don't think they have cooking oil in Venezuela. I'm not sure if they're exporting the extra virgin uh variety of oil.

SPEAKER_05 35:34

Oh, well, there's never, you know, it's anything's possible. You know what's got you know what the plans are for Gaza, so anything's possible in this crazy world.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

That's true. That's true. Well, thanks for thanks for making me uh you know following up to get you on the pod. Just to give everyone you want to give you want to give a little intro into the Death by Lightning uh recap at all for the fans? You know, get them get them excited.

SPEAKER_05 36:05

Yeah, it was uh you know the show was awesome. Uh it was written about a book, it was taken on a book, and uh it's got a great all-star cast, quite the ensemble. Uh, and they did not disappoint whatsoever with our with our boy, Mr. Charles Cattle.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Well, they did disappoint greatly. But the fans couldn't listen in and see, find out where we were most disappointed and what may have been left out of the show.

SPEAKER_05 36:33

Yes. They could have done better with with that, but uh all in all, I thought it I thought it was entertaining. Um really surprised they decided you talk about that subject entirely.

SPEAKER_04 36:48

You know what's cool? Our so that was like four episodes, four hour-long episodes, maybe, maybe a little bit longer. So maybe I'd just say it was four hours total. Um, our recap episode to talk about it is getting close to two hours long at this point. A little bit of intro.

SPEAKER_05 37:06

But well, maybe they could watch our face could you can watch the show. If you haven't seen it yet, watch the show, mute the sound, and then just have our podcast playing.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Well, we don't really that's the problem. We don't really uh stick to any chronological uh any chronological like uh direction when we talk about it. We kind of go all around, skip, skip all around, and then um Yeah, but I think that kind of summarizes Charles Gateau's outlook on life. Well we definitely had the somebody who it's definitely yes, it's definitely run as the the podcast is definitely run as though Charles Guteau had something to do with it with his uh oh man, what was it? His newspaper that he wanted to come out with. He if spoiler alert, he wants to come out with the newspaper because he thinks he's into politics. So I guess if that newspaper ever came to fruition, which he didn't get any investments in, it would have wound up to be like our podcast. Daily Theocrat. The Daily Theocrat. The Daily Theocrat, yeah. So so we are the Nailing History Podcast is the daily theocrat of podcasts. Although, lucky for us, technology has led it to not needing a ton of money to uh start something like that.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Capital Alley is minimal.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

So, well, especially for you.

SPEAKER_05 38:35

Oh boy. Anyone who's a big James G. Bleef, anyone who's a big James G blame James G. Blaine fan is in for quite the treat, too. He was quite uh at the center of attention.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

I don't know if we talked so much about him. It was a good show. Enjoy the recap, fans, and happy new year, and thanks for sticking to us. Just like let's give some shout-outs, John. We got Andrew S who joined us a little bit earlier, Brian K. Sorry for interrupting you at work, Dick Pepperfield, Mark C, Emily M. Lauren N. Lauren N, Max G. Can't forget Max G. Nope.

SPEAKER_05 39:22

He's waiting on pins and needles for this one.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Who else? Is that it? That's seven people. Well, I think we need twelve.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

We need twelve. I think Jesus picked from 90 disciples, so I guess we have our is that what it is? I think so. Something like that. I don't know, maybe we'll do a podcast on it one day.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

All right, fans, enjoy the recap and happy new year.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Happy New Year, fans. All right, fans.

The 1880 Convention And Dark Horse Garfield

SPEAKER_04 40:02

We're back again. Um, doing John and I just full disclosure, John and I are trying to do a back-to-back episode um or back-to-back recording session. We just wrapped up the um talk about our trip, but I wanted to, as it's I don't know how often John's gonna be available to do this record to record. Uh he's very busy, and um, I just want to make sure that we get our thoughts down about this this before we forget or before it really, you know, simmers. Um John, how's it going? You doing alright? Yeah, I'm hanging it. We're like two hours in on we're two hours in on a recording session.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

Yeah, doing good, but there's just too much to talk about. We gotta keep it, we gotta keep moving along here. We already gave all of our fans so much to look forward to, and now you know we've we're past the point of no return, so we gotta keep going.

unknown 40:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

How have you been?

SPEAKER_04 41:01

So I'm good. I'm good. I'm a little still a little upset about the Google thing. So uh what we're gonna talk about on this episode is we want to review Death by Lightning, at least go over our thoughts of the of the show, which was the Netflix series about James Garfield and Charles Gateau. I binged it very quickly.

SPEAKER_05 41:23

Content. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

Yeah, it's about it's about four hours. I guess I think one of them, I think the first one was long. The last one was an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Is it okay? You'll get hooked. It's funny. It's good. It was it was good. I I enjoyed it. I'll say that from the start. Um before I think was it before I watched it or was it after I watched episode one? I did you listen to the podcast where we talked about it? I assume you did not. Yeah. Like in preparation to watch the watch it.

SPEAKER_05 42:04

No, I'd already done the podcast with you, and I'd listened to it when we were after we released it.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Well, that was like a year ago. Maybe you would have just listened to C. Yeah, it was after Trump got used. It was over a year ago.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

Oh, the gateau. Oh no. Oh, I was talking about Yeah, yeah. I thought even when we were getting ready for this episode, like what we did when we discovered when we found out that they were gonna release this episode this show. I was like, why would I listen to it? We just recorded it like three weeks ago. I did not listen to the assassinations episode again, no. But I did remember it. Now I was laughing hard.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

Now, a fan Andrew S um did actually listen to the episode in preparation to watch this. So I got to give it to him. I don't know if anybody else did. I don't know if maybe Dick Pepperfield did or Brian Kay, but I listened to it and Andrew S listened to it. And it's just it was funny to listen to because I specifically said in there when we were lit when we were learning about it, um, you I I could just tell the the way that it was delivered, it was funny because you either just got the I forget how we set up that episode. If you presented everything to uh to me and I didn't do any research, I think that's kind of what happened. Like you, I was like, you find it all and you tell tell me about it. I forget. But you were definitely either you didn't do any prep work and you were just copying off of Chat GPT and you never really read it, or you read it initially and you didn't see the the like the humor in it until you were saying it to me. Because like you're saying it all very straight laced, and like, oh yeah, you did this, he this, and this, and then I'm kind of like coming back, like, wait, what what happened? Like, and I'm like la I'm laughing about it, I'm commenting on it. And at one point I made I say specifically, there needs to be made a movie about this guy.

SPEAKER_05 43:52

It's funny you say that because they were filming it at the time that recording was released. It was being filmed. When was it when was it filmed in Budapest, Hungary?

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Uh I think it's Budapest. No, I think it's Pest.

SPEAKER_05 44:15

July 1st, 2024 to October of 2024.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:22

They were literally starting to make it.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Hey, they probably listened, they probably listened. They probably turned it around that quick. Maybe they were already always planning on it, but they didn't know the tone to take until they listened to our podcast. They had to completely rewrite to like fit the oh wait, this is a funny story.

SPEAKER_05 44:43

And funny at the same time. It was uh it was wild. So I'm really I watched it with my wife made her watch it, she fell asleep during the first episode.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

I really enjoyed are you serious? I've I thoroughly I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought it was entertaining.

SPEAKER_05 45:02

It was entertaining.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

Um I think they so it opens up great with like these guys Is that the opening scene where they're like working in a warehouse or something, cleaning something out, and then they've come across this jar with a brain in it that says Charles Gutenbergs. And then the one guy's like, who the fuck and the guy's like, Who the f is Charles Gutenberg? And then boom, starts a yeah, it's good opening.

SPEAKER_05 45:32

I didn't discover that in our initial research that they got his brain out.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

I think I think that's true because what I what I found out, I don't know if we're necessarily going in the order that we should be, but what I found out is like they thought that he was maybe insane from like syphilis or some other type of disease, which is I guess like I guess if you get syphilis, you can you can uh go crazy, which we learned like he didn't really have that much of a chance of getting syphilis as we learned in one of in a flashback portion of the show where at some point in time he was living in like a sex commune.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

What was that free commune? It was like a religious, it was like a religious thing. It was like a religious cult. Yeah, it was a religious thing. You know, I know about it before, um, but not any major details, just from what I can tell. It's called the Oneida community. It was up in New York. It was a perfectionist religious communal society. So people were like, community, they practice communalism, like no individual property, and that was extended to like marriage. So, like, as free law. It was partly religious, it was a weird thing, basically saying they believed that Jesus had already returned in AD 70, so he'd already come back, making it possible for them to bring about Jesus' millennial kingdom themselves and be perfect and free of sin in this world, not just in heaven.

Spoils System And Factional Warfare

SPEAKER_04 47:11

Okay, whatever. So there was a poor part in the story where he was so like where uh Charles Guteau was up there in this commune, and uh nobody he wasn't getting lucky. Let's just keep it PG. And he obtained the nickname Charlie because like none of the women liked him, and he was like peeping on him and creeping on him and everything. And he's like arguing, he's like, I that's not true. And then they said, Well, you did get it, well then how did you get your nickname? And they're like, What do you mean? And they're like, there his nickname was Charlie Get Out Good old Charlie Get Out, so no one liked him there, so I don't know, you know, who knows? But um but yeah, so so the show, like it kind of the show started it started with James Garfield living in a farm and then getting getting uh um hailed to come to Chicago for the the Republican National Convention.

unknown 48:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

And that was cool. I think we talked about that. We've talked about this, and that's what was it was cool to see. It is like we've I think we've talked about this. I don't know, we might have talked about this during the Grover Cleveland episode, where like you mentioned that the national now the national convention is like primaries have already been happening and it's all just a show that like the they know who the nomination is gonna be. But this was like the that this was like specifically like you bring your guys up and you pitch to them and then tell us tell us what tell us why we should vote for them, and then the states all voted for them.

SPEAKER_05 48:53

And apparently they weren't there, like the nominees didn't necessarily have to be there like they were on the show. But yeah, basically you had like a hype man that would have to like kind of go up and explain to the rest of the party convention like why you should be the nominee. So you could yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

And who was voting for who was voting? Was it like people from the RNC of each state? Yeah, is that what is that what it was?

SPEAKER_05 49:16

I think each state had X amount of votes. That's why they kept saying, you know. And who was Pennsylvania and who who were the voters?

SPEAKER_04 49:25

Were they the representatives? Like were or I don't know. Like who who actually voted? So there were no primary votes here.

SPEAKER_05 49:35

It was like you got nominated through the Yeah, you got nominated through whoever. I don't know if in the primary votes, maybe the pri I don't know if the primary voting would have been to just send your representatives to the convention and they would they could vote on their own on their own behalf. Like you're just voting who you want to go to the convention. Um but they needed there were 755 delegates, you needed 378 to win the nomination. This is specifically for the election, in this cycle, this Republican National Convention of 1880 was held from June 2nd to June 8th, 1880, in Chicago. And yeah, it was a lot of back and forth, but base though it was pretty crazy from what I understand.

SPEAKER_04 50:28

So so to paint the picture, and we did talk about this before leading up to Grover Cleveland, because at the end of the at the end of the show, they allude to what we talked about on here is that Grover Cleveland won. Who did he beat who did he beat? Which was the guy, which is Secretary of State who was like a prominent character.

SPEAKER_05 50:52

Brad Whitford.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Yeah. The guy with the guy with the white hair, white beard. He lost to Grover Cleveland, which ended like a 30-year run of Republicans running the playouts Lincoln. Or longer, since Lincoln. So the the political atmosphere was Ulysses S. Grant was the running president. I guess is had he already ran.

SPEAKER_05 51:17

And they're the advocates of like the spoil system and the corruption. They they were run by a man named Roscoe Conkling. Dapper Roscoe Conkling. Yeah, he had a good style. Yeah, so he wanted they wanted Ulysses S. Grant again, so basically continue running the uh gravy train, effectively.

SPEAKER_04 51:38

Yeah, and I think like James, James Blaine and and James Garfield and and whoever I f what I forget the guy's name, who James Garfield came to present.

SPEAKER_05 51:47

He John's the brother, younger brother uh of General William Tecumseh Sherman.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

So so basically, James Garfield gets invited to the RNC to nominate this guy to be the the from both from Ohio. James Garfield's from Ohio, this guy Sherman's from Ohio. And it was it was between it was basically between Sherman, Blaine, and Grant, right? They were the they were the three main people, and they kept voting, I kept voting, and kept voting. Then all of a sudden, you know, so you Grant had a lot, had the most, but not enough to get the nomination. Blaine was second, and then this guy, Sherman, was last. And then like through many different iterations of voting, basically James Garfield, his speech for uh John Sherman was so gr or Sherman, whatever his name is, was so great that people started to like be like, why isn't this guy be the president? And I guess that's true. I don't I didn't fact check that.

SPEAKER_05 52:52

Yeah. It's the 35 ballots. I think that they realized, I don't know how true that was about, well, he just swayed us, and because then there's a moment in the show where Garfield and Sherman meet in a hallway. I think this is right after Garfield either got the nomination, and he's like, No man makes a speech like that if he doesn't want it for himself. And I I don't think doubt that that well I it's Hollywood up.

SPEAKER_04 53:18

But like, did that process actually I mean, I guess we should have probably done some fact checking. Well, we're not doing the fact-checking of that. We're fact-checking. We'll get through it. We're talking about the show. We'll get through it. The show. No, but I'm saying, no, but I'm saying, like, the okay, but the sh did that actually happen? Did like was Garfield invited not as a nominee, and then it wound up him becoming the nominee through that? James Garfield came to Chicago.

SPEAKER_05 53:40

Let's do some research while we're talking about Chicago as a senator elect from Ohio. So he wasn't even serving in the Senate yet. By the time he was at this convention, he'd represented the state in the United States House of Representatives since 1863. So he'd been in DC for some time, almost 17 years. Ohio sent in 1859, served under major guy, he was in the Civil War. I'm just trying to see at this convention. He faced allegations, ooh, allegations of corruption for receiving$329 in tainted money in the credit mobiliar of America corruption scandal. They didn't talk about that in the show. Uh denied the charges. I'm just trying to see. What if he was moving the house? Oh my god, get to the point. He wasn't affiliated with the Stalwarts or the half-breeds, so that might have been a reason why he was able to be the dark horse because he wasn't in he didn't run in the circle of Roscoe Conkling and Chester Arthur to watch the show. They're one half, and then he didn't run in the with James Blaine, who was that leader of like the half-breeds.

SPEAKER_04 54:49

So yes, he got he got he became the dark horse after as a compromise candidate after the convention became deadlocked between the other contenders.

SPEAKER_05 54:56

Yeah, so the stalwarts and the half-breeds couldn't couldn't jive. They kept basically throwing away the vote because Grant was getting so many. No one was getting a majority.

SPEAKER_04 55:09

Right, so they picked somebody who all everyone could agree, everyone could more or less agree with, because I think everyone thought that they could take advantage of him and use him in the world.

Gateau’s Delusions And Job Quest

SPEAKER_05 55:17

Yeah, the stalwarts, they would get some guys in his cabinet, and then the other faction of within the Republic, the the half-breeds would get their people in the cabinet. And that was kind of the bargain that was sort of implied on the back end.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

Yeah. So so he does that, then he's running for president, and uh this guy Roscoe Conkling, you know, kind of gets him uh uh gets him the votes. Very much they're always talking about how New York is the most powerful state in the union and it needs to stay that way because that's where all the I think they made some comment uh of like they so Roscoe or James or so Chester Arthur, who ultimately became Garfield's running mate, vice presidential candidate, was the was in charge of the port. Customs house of New York or the Customs House in New York. And they I at some point they said that that 80% of the federal government's revenue came through that specific customer specifically. So that's how you could that's how they were running.

SPEAKER_05 56:27

Yeah, they in a way, if you own if you ran if you had your man or your group in the customs house of New York, yeah, you held the bag of the federal government because I remember this is before the income tax, so all federal revenue was accrued through tariffs and customs duties. I was there once. It was actually pretty cool. It's interesting. It's down by Wall Street, it's neat.

SPEAKER_04 56:50

Yeah. So that's how James Garfield's story kind of gets introduced. Now I'm trying to think of how our buddy, good old Charlie Go, Charlie, what is it? Charlie Get Out. Good old Charlie Get Out. I don't know how is he introduced specifically? I was it he was talking to his sister about starting a newspaper in Chicago. Like right off the bat, you can tell.

SPEAKER_05 57:13

He's in front of the he's not on trial, but he's coming, he was in jail, and they're like, he's basically sitting, he's sitting on a chair, and he's got a lineup of guys that are grilling them with questions. Let's say he's being pardoned for something, kind of like as you know, parting uh uh hearing. And basically like a parole hearing. Sorry. And the guy asks him a question, and he comes back with like some over-the-top, like very elaborate answer, and these guys, these older dudes are just like, What are you saying? Like they were like dumbfounded at whatever the hell he was saying. He was like giving some super idealistic answer to a question, a very like direct question they want a known. Right. And they were like, uh, you can leave now. And then it cuts to him yeah on a train with his sister.

SPEAKER_04 58:07

So Gateau, he's meeting with his sister, and he's like, ah, like he's he's obviously the loser of the family. The dad disowned him, he doesn't want anything to do with him, I believe, at this point. Um, but the sister seems to have like some kind of soft spot for big ch big Charlie, big Chuck. Husband does not and brings him home. Yeah, brings him home, and he's trying to he's saying that he his new thing is he's going to um he's going to start a newspaper in Chicago called the Chicago Theocrat. Theocrat. And I don't know if I I mean I assume he doesn't have any you know skills in writing or any real reason to be able to do that. But the the the his sister, who I think married money or as wealthy somehow, she lives like a fairly like high class lifestyle, it seems like she brings it, she lets him stay with them for a little bit. He's playing around, crawling around with the kids, and then the the sister's wife or husband comes home and Charlie's just like feeling like an idiot. He's like, Oh no, I'm going to Chicago, whatever, blah blah blah. So then he goes to Chicago, he dresses up, and like they shut him down, they turn him down like immediately.

SPEAKER_05 59:24

After he robs a sister and her husband.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

Well, no, I don't think he's gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 59:29

No, he robbed him again.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

Yeah, but yeah, but he hadn't done that. Oh, really? No, he hadn't done it yet. He went to Chicago to try to get a loan to start the newspaper and they turn him down, but then that's also when he runs into the national convention and sees Garfield and like falls in love.

SPEAKER_05 59:49

And like and then he talks back to their house, jacks them, and then goes to DC or New York.

SPEAKER_04 59:56

Yeah. Yeah, it goes to New York. And that's when he says that and that's like when the first episode closes, he's like, I work in politics for like no reason whatsoever. Because he thinks he's gonna like write he all of a sudden he gets this calling. He has this calling where he thinks that he needs to help James Garfield become president.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

Uh okay oh I thought he stole I thought he jacked him before and then he was living on the he was living on the living the high life tipping.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

Well he was living the high life in New York or in DC and like in New York and DC he tells them that oh I I got the I got the loan like he was he got approved or whatever but then he stole the money and bounced yeah he had no idea who the hell Garfield was and then he found out when Garfield's nominee he fell in love with him I mean the the actor was perfect it was a perfect it was a pr it was a perfect actor it was a perfect casting for him Nick Oliverman is Chester Arthur's great like just a drunk goofball like kind of like just a patsy for Roscoe Conkling you know it was kind of interesting and like I think we don't have to get into detail with the plot because we obviously don't remember it. I didn't take notes and it's not really the point. Like I I think what was cool about it was they were really laying on and what we talked about was the reason for the the the reason for the um assassination was the I mean what do they call it the the uh the system that was in where you would get a job system you were expected to get a job the spoil system I mean that was what they were driving at home like from the start and that was pretty interesting. So you know as we talked about in that epit in the episode that we did is J this gus gateau finds his way to New York um to do a stump speech for James Garfield to try to get him elected cheap that no one really answers keeps trying to get an audience he walks in with Chester Arthur and James Blaine and no one ever knows.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:58

He's met he meets Chester Arthur like six times it seems like in the show and every time he meets him he's either like he's like slovenly drunk and doesn't remember having a discussion with him or he's like beating him he's like pushing him to the ground.

The White House Encounters With Blaine

SPEAKER_04 1:02:11

So there's like there's no in between oh yeah well the first time he met him yeah the the first time he met him he beat him up because he was like he was he was talking to James Garfield right and then Chester called like get out of here and then he put him on was it Conkling yeah yeah because at that point Garfield was never at Conklin's right hand it was always right at his side Arthur was Arthur sorry Arthur not Garfield so it's just I mean it was just good it was interesting. I thought they I thought they really nailed that well like talking about the spoil system and just the delusion that probably a lot of people had and like how people were getting jobs that they shouldn't have and stuff like that that I thought was interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:50

The reason they kind of I wouldn't be shocked if part of the reason they want to make this I mean granted the book came out in 2011 but maybe the show came out now well Trump wasn't elected yet in 24 but I think it's like it I mean I'm sure I haven't read all the reviews but people could be like oh the spoil system do we still have it is it did it ever really did it ever really goes away even not even just Trump but either other party officials you could make the case some Democrats maybe under the guise it's so obvious Trump it's so obvious with him though.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

Because it's it's uh it's high profile people that are getting it I think when you have somebody like uh Steve Bannon in his first term getting job you know that's kind of a similar thing but you know you're not at the same it's not at the same high profile as like an Elon Musk or trip triple triple H. Very qualified a wrestler so so yeah so it brings that up and and uh I just thought you know it was good and I thought it was it was interesting in that part they it was great with Garfield or uh with uh with Gateau like showing up to the showing up to the White House and like waiting for him like we talked about he was there every day um and they were kind of like you know and he thought he was more important than everybody else you believe he had a higher calling at this point and yeah in his life that yeah and then he finally met Garfield and I thought that scene was great when he met when he met that was cringeworthy. I thought it was great when he was like he just wanted to be he's like well what do you want he's like I just want to be your friend and Garfield is just I mean Mike uh Michael Shannon was great just kind of exactly how you knew that that went down and he's just worming and he started being like swam in his chair he's like you're making me really uncomfortable here he's just like he's like you're just so great and he's like no I'm not great God's great and and like he's like wow and then like at during and like this is probably Hollywood but like during that meeting you know Garfield gets told that his wife's sick or whatever and he's they're like you gotta go right now and like he's like I gotta go and then and then uh Gateau's just like okay yeah but like uh what do you how about my um how about my uh like position or like he really wanted to be in Paris and he kept like asking for that and you know budging his way into places and that was this was the point that really like flipped a switch for him was um that happened that did he meet Blaine and then Garfield was like yeah yeah yeah sure sorry and then he waited for Blaine and he waited he he met Blaine outside he forged the note he like he so he wasn't so so okay so after after his wife got sick Garfield was like no more no more visits I'm not visiting any more people anymore and then and then Gateau came in to get another visit like the chief of staff and then that's when the guy was like dude we're not doing this anymore you gotta leave and he basically like started closing the door started shooing him away and that's when they delivered the best show each shit I'm a taxpayer and he throws something at him and runs out um but then then so he wasn't getting the audience and then he forged notes he tried to forge notes and he he met Blaine outside and was like hey here's a note from Garfield like I'm ready for my assignment hours and Blaine was never having it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:12

It's like the fourth time he met him that happened Blaine finally stepped never speak to me again on the Paris consulship as long as you live apparently that's what he actually said.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:22

You said that you quoted that in the in the podcast if you had listened to it um and uh that's when the that's when the that's when the flip switched though that was it that was like as soon as that happened he was like I need to kill this guy because I need to say he then he started looking as like he needs to save it because he now all of a sudden he needs conkling and and the guard the conkling and the Chester A Arthur he needs them to be running the show for like no reason whatsoever.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:51

He just thought that that was like apparently he considered himself a stalwart and that like basically I think to his point I mean obviously he obviously what he did was irrelevant but the whole system was at a point where it's like I'm waiting here every day like even if I didn't help you get elected I'm standing here hours every day like give me some job obviously not gonna get the consulship to Paris but that was pretty good they had other guys coming and asking for jobs too that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:19

They were just as they were just as ridiculous they look just as absurd. I know I know I think that's how it went though the doors were always open probably yeah I mean yeah I mean I and I I think I said it on the podcast that we talked about it is like there's a lot of people that think that way you know like oh I made a tweet that got this many likes and that's what got you you know that it's the equivalent of that you know somebody I put I tweeted this and it got this many likes or it went viral because I said this about you and now I think I helped you get elected similar situation right I mean like the the modern stump speech is Twitter.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:58

Yeah X formerly known as Twitter which I guess I don't really have access to that now either because that's linked to my goose so it looks like it's it looks his motivation was by getting off by getting rid of Garfield who he saw as a threat. It's kind of yeah he literally saw him getting denied a job as basically his way of take understanding that Garfield was going to do away with the spoil he was going to do away with the spoil system. He extrapolated out oh I'm not getting a job so this guy's trying to ruin the Republican Party and ruin the country because I'm not getting a job and he wants to do away with the patronage system so I got to kill him so Chester Arthur and Roscoe Conkling kind of stay in power and then I can get a job probably through them.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

Yeah I think that was the and like I think he thought he's like you lied you said you would talk to us every day and you're not doing you know like you know he it like sh it like shattered his universe that like you know he thought he got fooled or like I he just couldn't deal with it.

The Shooting And Medical Missteps

SPEAKER_05 1:08:55

He couldn't cope with it and uh yeah I don't know he was great I mean it was great I mean it there was the quirkiness and that was he did his his forged signature did work did help him get that land at rental the first time he went and he stole that pad of paper he wrote a letter from Arthur or from Garfield and he used it to show that that woman the the Madame of the house the house he was staying at in DC yeah so that he could stay yeah yeah he was a clever clever guy yeah I mean sure yeah for sure and he had great handwriting I mean we tried to we wrote in quell pens at Monticello was that Monticello where we wrote with uh or no or was that Yorktown or Jamestown?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

No it was Monticello no I think that was Monticello yeah oh yeah because we were right yeah and it's hard to write with those things so he great great sign great headmanship signature writing with a quill on it shot but yeah I I think so then he so this is this is where I thought it was really going to lose you and it was probably the most awkward and I don't know what we can fact check it on air because I think we had other listeners that I know fans of the show friends of the show who had the same thought so well first I don't I I don't even know if this was true or if this was a dream but having having him in the church behind him with the gun having Kateau in the church sitting behind Garfield and then like screaming like you don't know God and then running out and like Garfield like I don't think that was I don't know I I don't think that I doubt that happened I don't know even know if that was supposed to be like a dream to sequence in the like it just kind of like in his head because like there's no way it was that was just so unrealistic that that would have happened I think I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:51

Says yes Charles Gateau followed President James Garfield at church where he sat behind him but did not shoot because he did not want to harm other worshipers. Gateau also had another opportunity to shoot Garfield at a train station about refrain because he felt sympathy for Garfield's ailing wife who was with him at church he followed Garfield Church on at least one occasion but decided against shooting because he believed it would endanger innocent people in the crowd shoot you're making me look like an idiot all right do it on the live I know well okay so I didn't think that was whatever that's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

But then so he finally he shoots him so so it's classic like now all of a sudden the whole thing that this turmoil and the the show's the show's built to be like there the the the other thing that was kind of a I don't know was they built Garfield up to be this like George Washington from Abraham Lincoln he could have been what it was a wall like he was really gonna fight the corruption in the guy like he was he what could have been I don't know if that's true or not yeah it was very like he was he's it like they they built him up to be like he would have been one of the best presidents of all like the way that he behaved and he he kind of he he stopped the corruption from New York by you know what he did with Conkling and I assume all that's true. Not going to fact check because whatever but like getting him out of the picture by um how did he do that?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:20

He was frustrating Conklin and then Conklin decided to basically renounce his Senate seat he had some power play in mind and go back to New York so then he could get revoted mandate and that didn't happen.

Germ Theory Clash And Bell’s Device

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

He kind of backfired on him and then that was the post so New York oh that's right he repla he he replaced he um Garfield chose Arthur's replacement for that they didn't want and then that made him lose his mind the customs house and that made him lose his mind that's what happened and then he thought if he left the Senate Garfield would have to be like everything would go to crap and then he would get re-elected into the Senate and then Garfield would owe him like thank God you're back and whatever like he just it was a power play in that sense. And then it felt but anyway so like that whole thing and whatever but um but yeah they they definitely made him seem like you know he was a George like a George Washington I think more Abraham Lincoln not George more Abraham Lincoln in terms of the in the the modern take of what people think of Abraham Lincoln like this just like he would have been on on Mount Rush. Like he would have been he would have been a Mount Rush more president. But so he went through all this stuff with the Conkling and getting that and him and Arthur were him and Chester Arthur were like not getting along because like Chester Arthur was with Conkling and then whatever he wasn't listening. But then like he kind of just hit his stride in the show right he was like all that stuff was away him and Arthur were kind of getting along he was just about to get ready to really get into his presidency he was enjoying life and then he ends up getting shot in the um in the back yes in the station in the train station in the train station and he's laying down on the train station and everyone's like oh my god and Gateau runs and then they're like get him and he runs and then they catch him and then there's a great scene of Gateau being in the uh in the in the police in the in the meat wagon basically going to prison and he's like he's like isn't this nice and he pulls out the gun the cops like what the f are you doing give me that and he's like you're gonna remember me that's gonna wind up in a museum like all the he was like like they they alluded to his like delusion that everyone was going to like him and he was going to be this like great figure like he saved the country which is probably pretty common for what people like people who do these kinds of types of assassination but that so that happened you know he ran they caught him whatever but you know Garfield's laying on the ground and they're like we need a doctor we need a doctor and like up walks an African American fellow doctor and uh he comes up and he's like I'm a doctor and then there's I don't know if it's it's not Blaine is it it's some other like old rat crotchety white dude is like he's like I'm a he's like I'm a I'm a doctor I I studied at Freedman's college and then the the white crotchety guy like fine then you know you can stick to taking care of your freedmen not the president you know basically saying like you don't deserve when he was shot and he was on the ground right before they took him to the back yeah yeah he's like oh yeah I will but then yeah you might not have he might not be alive long enough yeah he's like fine I won't work on him but he's not gonna be alive and then he's okay then he starts so then so then fine you can do it. So then he starts working on him and and uh he's kind of I don't know I don't they don't really show much about what the black gentleman's doing but then they show the white guy the white gentleman come in and he's like I'll take care of it and he's like digging in the body and like Garfield passes out and like this guy's doesn't he he obviously doesn't wiping medical equipment on a shirt like he's like obviously yeah and but then the uh the black gentleman the black he's like you shouldn't be doing that which is a pretty good scene like he's like he's like you um you're gonna do more damage than like he's basically saying like you're doing more damage than good like leave him alone like you know let's you're you're down you're gonna be have you not been reading yeah basically have you not been reading what's been coming out of Europe he didn't say the words germ theory but uh what what papers and what the what the research in Europe is showing about effectively germ theory yeah like and like using clean instrumentation and the guy and the and he he had some great quote about I was like that's a bunch of bulls right like he was like f you right so so I mean that was a it was a it was a way to to steer the direction of like you know to s and like I'm actually they it's good that they brought this up or that they they presented it this way like you have to present the the the situation that it was the gangrene that killed him not the not the you know and that's what we we discussed that is like the infection the gangrene is what killed him so it was a good way to introduce that it was just like on the nose it was like really on the nose like really Hollywooded up like you know well I was curious I first questioned was it a firm was it a black doctor that first attended that was true that it was a black yeah it was a block a black doctor did attend to him on the ground so that part was true that's interesting that it's true my stand corrected again yeah no I feel like pretty good story that that's a pretty good story then so so then this is so I was very disappointed I think I was texting with you and I was like oh we finished episode I finished out episode three like I don't know if they're leaving enough time for you know the trial or like I don't know and like the episode it was Gateau was barely in this episode.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:06

So like episode three did episode three end with the assassination I think so no I don't think he was shot until episode four episode four is an hour and a half I had 45 minutes left in it when we turned it off in the fourth episode and he hadn't been shot yet okay so either way I mean but like it was the Gateau was not featured like the whole ending was mostly about the gangrene and the doctor didn't know what the effie was doing.

Trial Missed Opportunities And The Gallows Song

SPEAKER_04 1:18:38

They brought Alexander Graham Bell in to like try to locate the bullet I think was that Alexander Graham Bell I think it was he had some contraption to try to locate the bullet yeah the metal and like a metal detector and then the doctor's like ah it's not you know they could it didn't work and then he's like the doctor's just like a dickhead I mean which is probably true. He's like it's it's where I just right where I thought and then fast forward they did the autopsy cut him again and people were like can you stop like Chester Arthur's like I'm gonna punch you in the face I'm gonna jab that in your eye dude everybody was like yeah yeah he did say that because the guy was like I don't think that's I don't think they were saying doctor I don't think you know what you're doing I think people would have been like yeah you're the I think it was like more common that's true too yeah I'm sure I'm sure but but they it was the way that they had to paint the picture of like but I don't know why they really had to paint the picture because the the the the there needed to be a whole nother episode. So I think it's one episode too short. They didn't talk about the trial at all it was the trial of the century they didn't cover the trial they they were following like it's very sad you know Garfield his family you know all that stuff and they were kind of talking about couteau it's kind of like he met his with his sister and he didn't really you could tell he didn't understand like what he had done or whatever but you know there were so many things in the like he like he was he represented himself and in in the trial like there was so much meat on the bone to really no it's true he he he published like a dating like he published he sol he was a soliciting for a girl for like hot like women in the newspaper you know they did talk about him like you know he was like posing and he was like trying to be this whole hero and like he didn't really see the point of like he was the delusion that like the public loved him that came across pretty well but man they could have done so much more like there was a per he blamed he he said I didn't kill him the the gangrene did or the doctor did like he specifically said that in court that was his defense and like they decided to have his wife come in and basically just say you're gonna be forgotten that that scene was forced I yeah I didn't care for that that scene was like yeah that was like yeah because like I mean it's a point no one does know who like especially I mean now they kind of undid it Netflix undid what she was trying to do yeah right like she's saying you're never gonna be remembered and then Netflix releases like a four part well I feel like up until the part like the TV show became a little more complex and he was funny and goofy and it's like there was a little bit of a a sense of um not just sympathy for the not sympathy for the guy but just like I can kind of get about put myself back in that time period and looking for a job and guy's not the never had a leg up in life and he's just trying to get ahead it's like yeah like there was a bit of an empathetic sympathetic kind of thing with him but I think yeah in the fourth episode once he shot him it was like oh this guy's just cast him it just throw him off to the throw him off to the side and everything he had about Garfield and his wife and how upset his wife is but yeah it could have to it could have made his character that much more complex and intricate in the if they did the trial. And it could have been so funny could have been so funny in the trial but they didn't leave us hanging of course you know the the the the coup d'etat the whole thing the whole time I'm wondering I don't know were you wondering the whole time I'm wondering because he started quote because he started quoting the Bible like that's not what happened. He was doing the Bible quote like no yeah so so you know of course like he gets sent up to the gallows and like he's he is oblivious and that's exactly how I pictured him kind of I figured I think I pictured him I I the way I pictured him more like insane like I pictured him more like manic and more like scary crazy to me than like how he was portrayed as just like this like goofball that like didn't couldn't really um find himself he had no sense of reality didn't really know what was going on but man so you know as we talked about on the episode you know that he wrote a poem three hours before he um got he like he had all this time to write this write what he wanted to say and he ticked he's waited until the last minute very John move three hours before he got executed he wrote a poem I am going to the Lordy and I don't remember if we knew he sang it or not I know he recited it but in this show he sang it and it was it was great.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:30

It was so funny how he was singing it and they were showing him like looking out on the crowd that were watching what that was watching him getting hung I'm going to the lordy I'm so glad oh glory hallelujah glory hallelujah I saved my party I saved my land I'm gone to the lordy I'm so glad and it was like it was it was his realization that like oh wait I'm I don't have any followers like I'm not gonna be like you know I'm gonna I don't I didn't do anything like I I don't know and did you hear at the very end of the show on the credits like the hard rock version of it oh yeah I found it Yeah it's like you're singing that yeah then they well what did you think of the ending?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:55

You're you're just like leaving me hanging.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:57

The ending of the show? What what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:02

Yeah like the the I'm going to the Lordy's hilarious Did you laugh?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:09

I was like they did it they pulled it off the other th the thing though that they didn't that they didn't do right is he he instructed the he instructed the executioner that he'll be ready to be hung once he drops the paper that he wrote that on they didn't have that in there he dropped it after his feet were dangling and twitching no it's true about the trial damn yeah I guess that's the biggest ball drop. Oh you didn't catch you didn't catch that I I think I really I thought it was gonna be I I I I was worried that like we were three episodes in and they hadn't he hadn't been killed yet or whatever however long it was I feel like that hour and a half fourth episode could I want to say like this they could have used like two you thought the trial could have been they could have used I think they could have used an extra episode I don't know I think the timing I think I think the lead up to it was great I think it was great. I I thought they did a really good job of like setting the setting up with the convention like him getting elected yeah no I think that's fair well the first episode was the convention the second episode was the convention no the first episode was the convention the second episode was his him getting elected basically and then the third episode was like his battle with Conkling and trying to get his cabinet approved and all that stuff throwing up yeah which was funny I mean that was great I mean Nick Offerman was great. I thought he was great he played him great. I don't know if that's what Chester Arthur was like but probably I thought it was a very touching moment too um when Chester Arthur came in I thought that was a great scene when Chester Arthur came in um to to resign it's like Chester Arthur was basically like imploding his own vice presidency because he didn't want to do it anymore after the whole nonsense with Garfield assigning somebody else to the customs house what is it the customs yeah the customs house and then you know he can't so he he came in and released a bunch of stuff in the newspaper like talking on on Garfield and then um so he comes in he's like I'm just I'm gonna resign I'm sure you read what I said I'm gonna resign or whatever and Garfield was like um no I don't accept your resignation you know I I think you don't want to work with you I don't um you know maybe that's true. I mean maybe he was a great guy maybe he was like the most un unremembered misremembered president and it's a shame it's it's a it's a huge shame but uh all that was a ton because like then you know he was like I'm going to see my wife or I'm taking my wife to the to the o like to the beach to like heal because you know the the ocean air is good for you or whatever and and Chester Arthur had lost his wife and he said oh yeah I took my wife there and then Garfield's like oh you know I never all this time all this time I never asked you about your wife and then Chester Arthur's like you know no one has I think that's when Chester Arthur started realizing like it was like one of those realizations like I'm hanging with a bunch of people like a bunch of bad people that don't care about me just being a pawn I'm a pawn of the game yeah like he he was kind of realizing that like he was he was lost he lost himself with a bunch of ingenuous people and got kind of caught up in money and all that stuff and oh that was a great scene put it in a resignation but still it was a good scene it was a good scene Jester Arthur the best part then when he was in office he actually did a lot of the civil service reform as an homage to Garfield like he he yeah like he continued it that was great too I mean you know the ending where it talks about where like I said like I had said earlier about the end of the Republican you know stuff that we talked about on the podcast. I thought that was cool to see that to see that you know I mean we nailed it like there were two episodes basically I mean it was only a little bit of the assassination episode but when we did that episode on Grover Cleveland that touched on a lot of the stuff that they were kind of talking about there too so it's a good time period.

Chester Arthur’s Turn And Legacy

SPEAKER_05 1:29:28

I know it's your favorite time period the 18 the the post-Civil War reconstruction era is your favorite time period in America it's an interesting definitely a time period I think more people would be would serve more people who are curious how do we get here now I think there's a lot of unturned stones from that time period what do you think about the style Conklin looked sharp like what do you think like do you like that top hat like the the the suits and like that that kind of do you like that style? I could get down with it maybe not in j in June or July DC but it was pretty cool I thought DC it was cool seeing like the White House just being like a she could walk up to like I just sat on a bench and just staring at it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:19

I just literally walking staring right at it I wanted to oh there was another thing I I enjoyed it I enjoyed it a lot I thought it was a it's a I think it's a good way to present it's kind of like how I would like this podcast to go but it doesn't seem to go that way where like a fun way to teach people something right wet their whiskers paying attention to not learn something about politics in the 1800s while also enjoying like a fan literally a story enough to do a Google search to who who was Chester Arthur and I'm not literally on an article right now who was the real Chester Arthur and it's a picture of like Nick Offerman next to like the real Chester Arthur and it's like if you want to at least it's cool I wish they did that with more presidential time periods.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:07

If you could make another story in this vein on next question with another presidency or another time period what would it be Andrew Johnson would be pretty that would be interesting and that would be like seeing the radical Republicans kind of come online that would be any reconstruction that'd be pretty contentious John Like you like Grant? No that's like Grant Grant would be a little after I mean specifically after the war because well Johnson like if it was Johnson then Grant Well the Grant was kind of once like right after like a like Lincoln like a sequel to that's what yeah so Johnson wanted to kind of carry out more of like what Lincoln had in mind with re with bringing back the southern states but radical Republicans basically wanted to treat them as foreign because that wouldn't be so fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:03

Jackson would be good Tyler getting kicked out of his party it would that would be funny we do the president's been shot and killed he had pneumonia and seeing him well he wasn't shot and killed but yeah died from pneumonia of course you would say John Tyler anyone but uh but not John Tyler so I would say probably Jackson would be interesting. I think that would be it wouldn't be funny though. John Tyler would be funny that guy is a buffoon with the boat blowing up the boat blowing up yes it was he was on that boat they called him his accident see because of that hey do you uh do you think Roscoe's chicken and waffles is named after Roscoe Conkling I think Roscoe Conkling's hair was nice if you could have one person's hairstyle in that in in Death by Lightning whose would it be? Oh I like Chester Arthur I liked his his his style is pretty sweet with the motton chops and stuff. Yeah I like that what about you I will say like my I will say like my beard I kind of have a little guitau the way that my beard I got yeah you know what I mean like it doesn't grow my cheeks like him like that was kind of what I thought maybe made him so ornery was like he couldn't grow a like a nice beard like everybody else. Like Blaine had like a great beard Mrs. N was Garfield had Garfield Garfield had a great beard.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:40

Mrs. N was wondering why his beard was growing sideways.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:46

Whose he's dickhead I don't know it was like it was weird shape. I mean that's he kinda and he he's got a he's got a John Brown look to him too.

Style, Casting, And What To Cover Next

SPEAKER_05 1:33:58

I think John Brown had a similar type beard didn't hewn would be a good documentary but that would get super political not very funny but maybe I gotta go I got I got work to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:14

I gotta be up early tomorrow I think later later and we say bye bye