143: Thomas Jefferson Broke And So Did Our Secrecy

We start with the kind of problem that somehow becomes a full debate: booking flights, planning a long weekend, and deciding whether checking a bag is smart or “low rent.” From airport security rules to the overhead bin hunger games, we talk through the real trade-offs of carry-on travel versus checked luggage, and why airline policies can turn normal people into petty philosophers. We also hit one of the biggest airline culture shifts, Southwest moving toward assigned seats, and what that changes about boarding, stress, and the weird social hierarchy of flying.

Then we pivot into what we do best: everyday life turning into history questions. St Patrick’s Day brings up heritage, who gets to tell which stories, and how loaded one word can be when you’re talking about the Irish Potato Famine. We even describe a surprisingly intense back-and-forth with ChatGPT, trying to see whether an AI will call the famine “genocide” or keep sliding into careful institutional language. If you care about historical accountability, AI misinformation, and how narratives get sanitized, this section will stick with you.

We end with a perfect metaphor for the whole mess: a fan sends a Thomas Jefferson bobblehead as a birthday gift, and it immediately falls apart, then somehow breaks even more. There’s travel coming up, more history on our minds, and a real push to get “Nailing History” back into a steady rhythm. If you like candid behind-the-scenes podcasting mixed with sharp history instincts, hit subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review so we know what topics you want next.

Transcript

Matt Hits Record Again

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Hey fans. It's your old pal Matt here with ya. Um it's been a while. Uh I feel like every time we get on we apologize for that. But um I just uh I just figured I'd hit the record button. John's been uh calling me today um in a rather annoying um manner uh trying to schedule book these flights for a trip that we have planned coming up and um I don't know. I just was like, why don't I just record when I call him back? Because he's been really annoying about it. So just maybe I can get you guys in the uh behind the scenes of this, whatever you want to call it. Hi, is this John N?

SPEAKER_03 1:20

John N.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Hey, it's Matt, your co your co-host of the Nailing History podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Hey, how are how are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

You're on the air.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Oh, I figured it's much. Thank you for calling.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, sorry I missed your call. I figured why not hit record, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:40

I know. I know we just got that new you just got that new descript uh got loaded up on the script again.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

So I do find it funny. I'm uh yes, I got an auto-renew for descript for another three hundred dollars. I thought I turned it off. I turned it off now for next year, so this might be the last year, fans. So hang on to your since$300 is about, I don't know,$100 an episode, I would say, based on our frequency from last year.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Let's see if we can up that. I think I think we can increase that ratio.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Well, sorry, John, I was out freezing in the cold temperatures today working on a Saturday. So sorry, I didn't didn't answer right away. I was still kind of just warming up and ready to hop just getting ready to hop in the shower when you called, so I didn't want to answer. So sorry I ignored you.

Carry-On Culture Vs Checking Bags

SPEAKER_03 2:31

That's totally fine. That's totally fine. So what's up? Um not much. Just uh what'd you call for? Oh well, I don't know if some of our fans know, but we're we're gonna be partaking in a uh in a long weekend, a long uh Labor Day festivity out in uh Washington. I don't know if you want to give the fans a little more detail on that.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Well, I'd like to keep my private life my private life private.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Okay. Well then we'll keep we'll leave it at that. Um you know, just more or less checking a check back, check bag or no check bag. You know, fans like I don't know. I like the travel light. Y'all can disagree with me, but I I like I like to just kind of go with a backpack and a little carry-on. Nothing too crazy.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

So you know what I don't like about carrying on, there's multiple things. One, I don't like having to worry about what's in my bag going through security. As far as like, are you one of the people who takes his little baggie out with all the little itty bitty uh travel liquids and make sure that you're not over a certain ounce and and do you have that all out and organized when you're waiting in line?

SPEAKER_03 3:45

You don't need to do that anymore. Last time I went. What? They tell you don't take anything out of your bag, at least in the airports I've flown out of.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Well, do you but okay, but do you have a do you have the is there still a limit on liquids?

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Uh I think so.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

See, I don't like following these rules. Just like I'm checking, I don't care. I I'm just gonna check all my stuff. I don't need to worry about that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Yeah, but it's easy if you got people picking you up at the airport, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

But then and then you're also like one of the freaking commoners fighting over overhead bin space. I hate that too. That's so it's so low class. Low rent.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

But you get so low rent in both worlds. You could potentially get the best of both worlds. If there's not enough cabin space for your carry-on, they'll ask you to check your bag.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Oh that would make me feel lower than whale shit.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

You got a little bit of A, a little bit of B. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

I just I I don't like being it's low rent, John. It's low rent. I don't when I fly, I fly, I fly. I'm still one of the people who dresses up for a flight. I wear a nice shirt and tie. I don't wear like pajamas and sweatpants like I'm sure you probably do. Fighting over overheads, fighting over overhead space with your uh Hollister t-shirts and and pajama bottoms.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Yeah. But I don't know. Big news though, in the world of flying. I mean, what do you think of these assigned seats on Southwest now, huh? That's the hot that's the new hot thing going on in aviation. That's not new, I don't think, at all. Well, they're advertising it pretty aggressively.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Oh, are they? Yeah, that's cool. That was insane. That was insane. I refuse to fly Southwest because of that. I can't deal with not having a seat assign. That's insane.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

I don't know how people. So I started any fans who are frequent flyers of Southwest or previously frequent flyers of Southwest, and you no longer are frequent flyers with them because they got rid of the pick your own seat.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

But um who would who would stop who would stop flying Southwest because of that? I think if anything, it would just get more people to fly it.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

I don't know. Some people were pretty, pretty into Southwest Airlines for the weird stuff they did.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

What else did they do?

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Including that. Well, the two free check bags, which when I fly whenever I flew Southwest, I would always check a bag.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

But I mean, John, John, you texted me before I called you. Yeah, I didn't do it because like I wasn't sure if you were going to check a bag or not. Um, but like we can always add it. It's$35. You're talking about$35?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

It's$70.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Okay, that's like five beers at a bar.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Maybe in Washington, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

I mean, okay, it's ten beers. It's like we'll put a tall out for the feds.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

It's a job, it's a job.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

That's just like it's just it's it's it's not just you. It's not just you. I'm not I I don't I don't want to pour it all on you, but like this whole like free check bags, how much how much like oh, it's uh it's gonna cost me this much. You're talking about nothing, like barely any money.

Baggage Fees And Airline Credit Cards

SPEAKER_03 7:19

I wonder what the history of check bags are. Pretty interesting. Let me see here. Evolved from heavy 19th century steamer trunks to lightweight wheeled and tech integrated luggage. Interesting. Quite the story there. Louis Vuitton was the first stackable steamer trunk in 1858.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Louis Vuitton, huh?

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Mm-hmm. In 1970, something tells me something something tells me mandatory x-ray screening.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Something tells me your luggage is not Louis Vuitton.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Guess how much the US Airlines collected in baggage fees in 2023, Mr. Only$35 each way.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

How much?

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Seven billion. Any more than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

I mean, I get I get the point I guess. I get the kidney? I get the point that you don't get much for it. I guess I get that point.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

I just like the travel light. And I was more inquisitive as to do we actually need the bags for our purposes? Because if we do, I don't I'm not against the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Listen, I'll take care of my own check bag. I think I get free check bags. I think I get free check bags because I have a a big airlines credit card.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Well, why are you telling me that? I would have put it in when I booked the plate with being. Okay, I think I can add it in still.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

No, I don't think if you added it, wouldn't it work? I can do it at the kiosk. If I use my credit card, it's free.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Do I get in on that too?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

I have the card.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

I've got an airline card. New sad sack card.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Oh, can I get in on that?

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Well, I only have I I'm not, I have the I have the entry level uh deep airlines card. Oh, you have the same one? I have, yeah, but I'm not paying for it. It's like the nine, but I get uh I get higher I get like group six boards. I didn't even know six. That's like the last of one. Okay, they're nine.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

They actually put you, people who have that credit card, they put you on the back bat. Like they have their own grouping for you.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

It's actually like people with them. They're like, oh, you want to like things like the file bill, but you can't phone you up anyway.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

We know, yeah, we know we're not going to get any money out of any more money out of you, so you can be all the way on the back of the line.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

I use that credit card very sparingly, if ever. So I probably would get what I deserve. I didn't even know they had a personal finance or how to fly podcast. You know.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Well, speaking of history, I was thinking, you know, I I was I I I will be honest with you, I was a little upset that um I thought you would have called me or would have like come up and been like, hey, why don't we do why don't we do an episode on St. Patrick? You know, since I I brought it upon myself to do a Christopher Columbus um episode. I feel like that's like St. Patrick is like the Irish counterpart or the Irish equivalent of Christopher Columbus to um Italians.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

So like a Spanish Jew to Italians is as is an as is a British Saint to the Irish, to the Irish, is that we're saying not being who they really say they are or who history is.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Oh, just in j just in general, I thought you would have just like, hey, you want to talk about your heritage? We always talk about mine. I figured you would have given me a a chance, but you didn't, so I think you have just as much of the heritage as I do.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

I'm also a quarter Irish.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Well, I'm half Irish. Three quarters Irish. I'm three quarters Irish, big dog.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Oh, you're three-quarters German.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Oh. Yeah. Uh hold on. Yeah. Probably.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

You heard you heard it here first, man. You thought your co-host we thought your co-host was a or my co-host was a Guinness wiggling rainbow. I don't know. You heard it here first.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Uh-huh. I just don't I just wish you would have. I don't know. I mean we could have talked about the potato famine, would have been interesting to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

You made a nice picture for that.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah, I barely got any I've you've barely been responding to any of my funny pictures that I've been putting together for the last like three weeks. I feel like I'm talking to myself.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

I chuckled. I laughed.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Look.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

It's been crazy out there.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

I have fans, I put together this great little graphic that said, Happy St. Patrick's Day. But remember, the potato famine was genocide. Is that what I said?

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Yes. With you and you with a very unsure, your unsure shrug. They're like, well, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Oh man, after having that, I was shocked that for one, that is definitely something that I feel like they would market as ChatGPT not being able to create. You know, because it's like kind of misinformation. Well, it's considered misinformation, even though I don't believe it. I feel like ChatGPT should have said, uh, we can't do that because it's not real. But then I was having, I was having, let me see, maybe I can call it back here. I was having a pretty heated discussion with Chat GPT then after that about if the potato famine was conversation with Matt.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Hmm. Oh man, I might have been I might have been talking I might have been talking about that with on my work phone, maybe shoot top to grassi playboys. Oh, logo design, image sharpening, Notre Dame Reconstruction.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Anyway, I was having this conversation with ChatGPT where I was like, hey, um, do you or it was the potato famine genocide by the British Empire against the Irish? And then ChatGPT said their response was like, well, no, but a lot of people think that because you know they were still taking all the good food from Ireland when they when the Irish people didn't have anything else to eat knowingly, and they were doing that anyway. And then I said, Well, gee, that sure sounds like it might be considered they were they sure did intend to you know starve the people of Ireland, and then it responded with something along the lines of oh, it wasn't really intentional, it's considered just a mismanagement by Parliament or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

I like it. Hey.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

You like that? You like it, you like that, uh wiggle out? It was just it was just mismanagement. I think Groc would have given you a little more straight answer. You think so?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Oh, for sure. Isn't Groc like the super racist one?

SPEAKER_02 15:43

I don't know. I'm I wasn't trying to be racist, I was trying to be historical.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Not racist, fam, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

I mean it did say that I was being trouble for it did say that I was being you know what? Oh man, I wish I could bring it up. It was it was a funny conversation. I talked to him, uh we talked about it for a while. I kept trying to make it like say, yeah, I guess you're right, but it did it wouldn't say that. Because a lot of the times uh AI like uh just tells you what you want to hear. So I was really hoping to be able to get it to say, like, oh yeah, I guess you are right, it was genocide. And then I was in a screenshot and send it to you, but couldn't I couldn't get it.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

So Sam Altman, get him get him in trouble. There you go. He finally admitted it.

Arguing With ChatGPT About Famine

The Jefferson Bobblehead Disaster

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Oh boy. Well, what else is what what else is in our our personal life news? Well, I have to say a big a big thank you to um a fan of the show, big fan of the show. Um I don't know how I can make this uh I don't know how I can make this um anonymous, really, but Conchetta P. Conchetta P. Very anonymous, very anonymous. Thank you for the birthday gift. Um she, friend of the show or fan of the show, big fan of the show, she bought me for my birthday a bobblehead, a Thomas Jefferson bobblehead to go along with my John Tyler bobblehead.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yes. I was I I I had nothing to do with it. I know this chan as well on a sort of personal level. She's great. Um yeah, and uh what happened to it?

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Well, it broke as immediately as soon as I opened the box. I don't know if it was broken in the box or not, but it broke right at the foot and it fell off. It fell off the thing. So I was like, all right, I'll fix it. It's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Conchetta P was dropped it on the table immediately.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

So I think Well, I don't know because I don't know if I dropped it on the table or if when I opened it, it just flopped out. I don't I've I tr I would admit if it was if I dropped it right away. I don't know because like I was taking it out of like the plastic whatever and then You're so giddy, I know. I was excited, and then that f so that broke, but it was okay. It would have been easy to it would have been easy to glue back together, but then a couple days ago, I um was looking at it right before I was heading out for work in the morning. I was like looking at it from all different angles, like, how am I gonna it wasn't even that hard. I don't know why I was doing it, but I was like, I gotta make sure I know how to glue this thing together. I'm gonna use JB Weld, I think, is my is my you know final decision, I think. I think I'm gonna go out and get some tonight. Maybe I can do it. But anyway, I I as I was doing that, it fell over, it fell over again, and this was like from a decent height, and then his head broke off at snapped at the neck, and then his other leg broke, so he's in a bunch of pieces, and it's not looking good for I think he's like it's kind of like Humpty Dumpty.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Yeah, put it back together. Did Humpty Dumpty get put back together again?

SPEAKER_02 19:23

No, because all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again. But I think I could put Tom, I think Thomas Jefferson can be put back together. Well, give him some ran give give him some Rand Paul elbow grease, we'll be able to figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

I was gonna say, if he knew he was if he knew he was in we were in for 38 trillion bucks, he'd probably say, Yeah, he wasn't putting me back together either.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Well no, he was a he was a man of debt. He was a man of debt, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Personal debt, not financial, not not country debt, not national debt, personal debt, first kid.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Remember that. That's true. That's true. He did leave his kids holding the bag. But anyway, so I tell John, I'm like, John, it looks pretty funny. It actually looks kind of funny. Thomas Jefferson's like in pieces on the ground, right next to like he would the bobblehead had the White House, like a little like the podium that the bobblehead's like standing on has a small, like a miniature White House. And then I have my John Tyler statue, and it was a funny picture of like John Tyler standing over uh Thomas Jefferson all broken and like just kind of and and the way that the way that's the whole thing at all cemetery or something. I mean, the way that the way that John Tyler is standing is kind of like in a way of like saying uh oh.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Probably how we stood on the boat when it blew up when it blew up, it needs to be.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

But then uh so I tell I so I send the picture to John and I'm like, John, don't tell Conchetta, but this happened, I'm going to fix it. Don't tell Conchetta, don't tell Conchetta P. Don't tell her, don't, don't tell Conchetta P, please don't. I don't want her to be upset. I'll fix it, it's not a big deal, but she's gonna be upset if you tell her now. And then guess what? I got in text message form yesterday evening from Conchetta P.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

I'm sorry. But in my defense, I saw Conchetta P yesterday evening prior to you receiving a text message, and she showed me a previous text exchange that the two of you had, and on that text exchange there was a picture of Thomas Jefferson on the ground separated from the White House. Yes. So you already told her it was broken.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Well, she knew No, she knew it was broke. She saw it break when I opened it. Then why would you send her another picture of it? She asked for it. I think she was going to try to get her money back or like a new one sent to us or something. But like she asked for it and then like three weeks later, I'm like, oh, I forgot to send this to you. And I texted it to her. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Well, then yes. I thought at that point the cat was out of the bag. I'd forgotten all the time the toll timeline. And so I showed her. I said, well, then you probably aren't going to like this. And I showed her to go. So you did know. You got me. I rather do out.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

What the he why are you lying?

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Keep our fans on edge. Keep the suspense. Build up.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Dude, you wouldn't last one day in the mafia. You're a pathetic excuse for an Italian. They should take that citizenship away from you.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Well, they might. Who knows where they're going. Where things are going.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Wesley Moron didn't teach you anything down there in the ol' uh show me state, huh?

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Well, maybe I'll learn a thing or two when I go in a month. We'll see. Maybe I'll get re- maybe I'll get re-educated, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

They'll see you coming right off the they'll they're just gonna file everybody who didn't check bags into like a separate section of the airport and be like, okay, here you go.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Flying to Rome, they're gonna be like, yeah, no. We're sending you back immediately.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Via freight liner ship.

Italy Plans And Getting Back To History

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah. Yeah, fans. I'm I I am going I am going to my old to the motherland, to the old country, as they say. Gonna go to a few historical sites. Maybe I'll we can talk about them. I'll have to bring some pictures so my co-host will know what the hell I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

How long are you going for?

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Going for a week. Doesn't seem like that's a long time. A fan of the show who we just mentioned, she's retiring. And Chenopee? Cheddar P is retiring and she wants to see the mu her ancestral homeland. What she wants as a retirement gift. So I'm joining her for a week.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Sounds not to speak of my personal life, but yeah, I would have kept that to myself if I were you.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Especially being being Italian, we don't talk secrets, but yeah, I would be I'd be I'd be killed the first guy on the job for sure.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yeah. Well now someone's gonna be able to say, oh, Concetta P, she's retiring, Google, figure it out, and then they'll be able to figure out who you are, and then you're gonna lose your job. So can't blame me. You're the one who brought personal life onto the show.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

You do have an edit function on this the script that you're paying$300 a year for.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

True, but yeah, but I'm not I'm leaving that in. Sorry. Alright, so are we good? Do we have the uh do we have the plan? Are the flights booked?

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Flights are booked. We are going to a place in Washington for a weekend. So it's uh Carmen San Diego fans. That's stay tuned. Come September, you gotta find your find the find Matt and John. You're gonna get a prize if you're able to track us down.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Well, I was thinking what what uh bounty on our heads. That's probably not the smartest.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

We gotta get we gotta get back on the air, John. I think the fans are missing us.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Do we have any ma emails? Any text messages? No messages.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

No messages, but I do want to give this out. If we I I I I just want to say that we want to get back on the air. We gotta kind of figure some stuff out. I don't there there's just there just isn't anything going on in the world that we can like relate to the history.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, we're just continually, you know, a war in Persia. That that never happened in the history of human civilization, you know, bogged down on a war in Persia. What war? What war? Sorry, I'm reading fans, I'm reading a little Roman history at the moment, and apparently Persia is always the bane of Roman existence, Rome's existence. So it's gonna be the bane of the US existence, quite possibly.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

So we shall see. Persia is Iran, or like part of Iran. No, part of Persia includes uh modern day Iran. Is that how you would is that how you would describe it?

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Yes. And I would describe Iranians that don't live in Iran. They don't like to be called Iranian, they like to be called Persian. I didn't have that. I was corrected once.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

I probably would.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Don't call me Iranian, please. Call me call me Persian, please.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

It's definitely a sexier, sexier name. I know. But yeah, so we just gotta find something. I mean, it's such a mundane world out there. There's just like nothing, we can't put anything together. So maybe figure that out. But I mean, uh, we do have in the can that I never released because like we recorded it, John. I don't even remember. I'd have to go back and listen to it. We recorded a recap of our recap of the uh American Revolution um documentary, and uh um I never released it, and then like time kind of went, and then it was like I don't know. It's like too it's like too late now.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

I could be in studio next week.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah, maybe we'll get we'll have to figure something out. Fans, let me know if you want to hear that, and then um we'll figure something out for next week. But for now, that's it for now. I gotta go. You good, John?

SPEAKER_03 27:53

I'm good. Thank you for the call. Fans with you.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

All right, John. Stay on the line. Stay on the line real quick.