Slow Magic and the Creative Life with Raven Edgewalker

In this engaging conversation, T. Thorn Coyle speaks with Raven Edgewalker, a British witch and artist, about their creative journey, the intersection of art and spirituality, and the importance of kinship and community in their work. They explore the challenges of being a full-time artist, the significance of right relationships in life and art, and the balance between connection and disconnection in modern society. Raven shares insights on their crafting process, the role of nature in their work, and the deeper meanings behind their artistic practices.

You can find out more about Raven's work at worldtreelyceum.org and greenwomancrafts.etsy.com

Want to support the recording and captioning of this podcast, plus get advance writing and discounted books? Please join Thorn's Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/ThornCoyle

Transcript

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Hello friends, welcome to Magic, Creativity, and Life, interesting conversations with interesting people. My name is T. Thorn Coyle and I am your host. Thank you for joining me, and thank you to my Patreon supporters for paying for the recording and captioning of this series. Let's dive in! Hello everybody. Welcome back to Magic, Creativity, and Life, Conversations with Interesting People. Today I'm talking with Raven Edgewalker, who is a British witch, teacher, artist, and collector of sticks, who makes their living crafting beautiful pagan tools and jewelry, dwelling in the magical landscape of Somerset. They are a reclaiming and Anderson fairy initiate, and have worked within both traditions for 25 years. Raven sees their work in the world as building relationship within community with deity, land and its beings. Raven, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for inviting me. So I ask every guest on the podcast this first question, which is what are your creative roots? What were your early childhood forms of creative expression? So one of my earliest memories and it was a story that my mother would love to embarrass me with as an adult was I must be maybe two or three and I decided to make a birthday cake for the fairies that lived at the bottom of the garden that my grandmother had introduced me to. And I made this incredible cake. had towers and icing and I mean, it was really over the top. And it was just about finished. And I put it down and my very small brother toddled out the house and sat upon it. I wailed and wailed and wailed and wailed and my mother came rushing out. I like, what's wrong? What's wrong? And I you know, that he sat upon my cake. And she's like, well, what cake darling and I'm like, but the cake the cake for the fairies and It was a cake entirely made from my imagination. There was no physical cake there. And my poor mother was like, I don't know how to deal with this child who is wailing at a cake that doesn't exist. I love that so much. And I love, of course, that it was a cake for the fairies. Of course it was. I mean, of course, yes. My question is, did your brother know he was sitting on the cake? I don't think so. the three of us, he would have been, even at that age, the most pragmatic and least imaginative of the lot of us. Right, right. That's brilliant. You know, it's funny because when you started the story, I was assuming it was going to be a cake made of mud and sticks because of who you have become as an adult, right? So I especially love that it was a cake of the imagination. You've clearly always connected with the Thay realms and you've clearly always connected with making things. As you progressed through your childhood, what were some other forms of creativity that you engaged with? It's interesting. As I became an older child, I really didn't think I was creative at all. One of the things that my parents would lament are, dear, they're not a very creative child. And a lot of what I did was actually channeled into gardening and science and schoolwork. Right. But also, you know, throughout, you know, my childhood teenage years, you know, I was always helping my father in the workshop, being creative, doing things, you know, making curtains and clothing with my mother. But interestingly, neither of them saw that as being creative. What they thought was being creative was being able to draw, which I am not good at. That's interesting. So crafting, they didn't consider craft to be creative. No, which, you know, looking back on it, you know, and looking at, you know, my mother is passed now and my father is incredibly creative, but neither of them actually really see that as being properly creative or artistic. Which is interesting because of course, crafts are the most basic form of human creativity, right? It's the form with the greatest longevity, know, everyone's ancestors, far enough back, did some form of craft, right? Absolutely, yes. Yeah. It's also interesting to me that you say you're not good at drawing because your artwork, your woodwork and your jewelry you're very good with pattern making, right? You make shapes, you make forms, but it's just not like realistic type drawing. Is that what you're talking about? know, ask me to draw, you know, a phoenix, for example, and the closest I got to my friends told me was a chicken with its bottom on fire. So, so then how do you, what's your process when you do things like pyrography or carving? I am very much guided by the shapes that are in the wood. I see. And, know, and I, I don't, I don't go for realism. I try, you know, go for simple and stylized. And, you know, if someone did say, Hey, Raven, can you do a Phoenix on this? I would say, hell no. Right. But you know, it is also I find much easier with a burning hot wire in my hand than a pencil. Interesting. So what is it about the burning hot wire that helps you connect with the wood? I think you know, so I think there is that, you you know, the wire, the heat, the, you know, the life force, the flame of inspiration, I think there is that piece. But also, know, wood and fire are, you know, in order to light a fire, you need wood. And I think there is a piece of the fire calling to the wood. And, you know, just as you know, we burn a bonfire or a hearth fire, there is something that I feel I am almost just channeling into the wood, that I am almost just the tool, as it were, guide. rather than thinking, crikey, what on earth am I going to draw? It just flows from the wire in a way that graphite or ink or paint never has in the same way for me. It's interesting because it reminds me actually of my writing process. Some writers plan everything out. I can't do that. Right? For non-fiction, sometimes I can say, okay, here's some points I want to detail out. But mostly I just connect with the project and start typing. It's like my, connect my subconscious to the project and it's the same with fiction, right? It's like, here's a character, here's the setting. I just start typing and let them go. You know, I just finished a short story that I had zero clue as to what was going to happen. I'm like, okay, I'm just going to plop a character in a setting and literally see what happens. And so it feels very similar to that. it's, you know, some people I think would call it like a form of channeling or something. I just call it deep connection. Yeah, I think that's very much how it is for me. Yeah. That's interesting. So that then relates to your paganism and your spiritual practice, right? I'm assuming that you have a strong animistic stream. yes. Yeah, me too. I'm very much an animist and hearing you talk about the wood and the fire, you know, it's like clearly that's an animist talking, right? These are living elements that you're working with. So have you It sounds like you've always had that. Have you always felt that connection with paganism and pagan practice or has that evolved as you've aged? I've always felt it. I think what has evolved is my understanding of what it actually is. know, in the fairy story, cake story, I mentioned, my grandmother took, know, took me must have been aged three or four down to the bottom of the garden to introduce me to the fairies. And I knew they were there and she would talk, you know, we would go and climb the trees and talk to the spirits of the trees. And it felt, it, you know, it felt that it was just something that we did, that that's how it was. But then, you know, I was, you know, I was sent to a school for the Daughters of Christian Missionaries. my goodness. So, you know, which presented a very different approach to the world. But to be honest, didn't really knock it out of me. But I think through, you know, an awful lot of reading of fantasy fiction, and then being able to get my hands on books in the library, I sort of rather than, look, these are my beliefs and I'm going to sort of bend my, you know, sort of evolve my beliefs to fit what I'm reading is like, look, this is what I believe, but here are some names for it. Here are some ideas. and thus evolved that way. Yeah, it was similar for me. I at a certain point, read about animism and went that's it. That's what I am. That's what I do. Right. And then I started studying, you know, witchcraft and paganism after that. But I guess they were kind of co occurring. But it was definitely true. It's I always said it felt like a coming home. Yeah. Because something in me comprehended what was in those books or what other people were telling me. There was a part of me that had always known that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting too. Shoot, the next question just ran out of my head. I can edit this out later. So practice. You know, elemental practice, you do that clearly through your art, right? Because you also make jewelry. Yes. What's that elemental connection with jewelry making for you? That is more or that is similar, more sort of earth-based, stone-based. And again, I don't plan the jewelry that I'm making. I find pendants particularly in thrift stores or online or people gift them to me. My goal is to try and buy as few new things as possible. know, a pendant might sit in a box for 10 years before, you know, a string of beads comes to hand and goes, right, these are what needs to happen. Right. And again, it's very much, you know, I don't plan, you know, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to do this and then I'm going to do this. Occasionally, I get it wrong and I know it's wrong. And, know, I have to pull the whole thing apart and, you know, start again. But more often than not. my fingers know what beads to put on. It's almost like the information is coming into the back of my head and flowing straight out into my hands without sort of bypassing my brain. Right. It's that same subconscious connection I was talking about earlier. But but rather than fire, that elemental connection is very much sort of stone and wood and glass and metal. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That makes sense. And it's interesting to me, you know, that you're talking about these kind of classical elements, the elements we can see and touch and taste, right? But you also trained for years as a scientist, as a biologist, right? So what's the connection or disconnection, if there's any, between your pagan practice and animism, your art and craft work, and being a scientist and a trained biologist. Because some people, of course, see those things as very separate. Clearly, you do not. no, I don't. I think at this point in my life, I see them as really even more melded and woven together than I used to. I think there was a period in my life where I was sort of reacting, well, I'm not a scientist anymore, so I'm going to move away from that. But at this point, I noticed increasingly how my practice as a witch, my practice as an artist, are weaving back in with my practice as a scientist. So my chosen field as a biologist was as an animal behaviouralist and an ecologist. And both of those things really are about relationships. How are we in relationship? How do we connect and the observation of that? How, you know, I worked out of a lab that was studying kinship. I mean, how much more sort of magical is that name of kinship, the study of relationship? we're just using different tools to come to some of the same understanding. That's really powerful. So they were studying, you were studying kinship models in among different species or how, what were you studying? So some of my lab mates, you know, a lot of my lab mates were studying kinship in whales and dolphins. And I sort of came in some of them, you know, from the side and was studying seals. But while they were looking at it genetically, we were also looking at it through observation and relationship and looking at how the whales, how the seals related to each other in family groups. Of course, communication. There was an awful lot of listening to whale songs going on in the background. Right. But I think what that taught me, which I'm really coming back to now is both how animal, know, sort of wild animals are in relationship to them with each other, also to the environment and also how we as human beings relate to other animals that we encounter. Right. Well, and your artwork is all about relationship. know, it's not only, it's your relationship with the land you live on. I know you use a lot of found materials from the land that you walk every day, right? Your relationship to the sky, to the human-made landmarks in your area, right? And I do that as well. know, anyone who follows me on social media knows about my daily walks, right? where I'm relating to my environment, even though it's a more urban environment, there's still, I still have relationship with the people, with the art, with the animals, with the insects and the flowers and the trees. And then all of that I do bring back and it feeds through into my writing. So talk about that, about walking the land and and kinship and how that affects your art. So, you know, people who know me know that I have a very large dog and the dog requires me, you know, so this is the first relationship, to take him for two walks a day. And one of those walks is almost always the same route. You know, we go up the drive and sometimes we meet people and then we go around the fields. And one of the things I love about that is noticing on a daily basis how things change. And how, because the trees, the rocks, you know, even the sky are a piece of my work, really walking through them and with them every day gives me that sort of intimate relationship of, look, today is the day that the swallows are leaving. And that speaks to, you know, you know, actually words on a page sometimes, or, look, it's the time of year to pick the slows. We've had the first frost. I, know, and it, it shifts from things that I have read or learnt, you know, as book knowledge into that sort of deep wisdom of the land that I am, you know, I believe I am seeking and trying to explore through art and then passing on to other people. Right. And then you also use a lot of the materials, like you said, you you collect sticks. Yes. Right. And then you use those sticks in your crafts. So there's that direct connection to the land you were just walking on. Absolutely. And, you know, it is very rare that I will go for a walk and not find a stick or a stone or a fossil or, you know, something to bring home with me that know, later will become made into a wand or an oum stave or what or runes or what have you. I love that relationship aspect because and that's definitely my practice is everything's about relationship. know, including I even say that's what you know, all art all independent artists have to deal with marketing, right? And I say marketing to me is all about relationship. How am I connecting with people and connecting my art with people, right? So there's that, there's connection all the way through, which when you use that word kinship, that really puts a different perspective on it all for me. I love that. I think by using that word kinship, moves it from a sort of relationship, even sometimes a transactional relationship. Yes. How can we, you we are actually kin and we are kin with the land and, know, with each other far more than, you know, well, you know, I'm an artist and you're my customer, or I'm a writer and you're my reader. Right. That's definitely how I feel about it. So I appreciate that word. Thank you for bringing it to us. It's not one we've talked about on the show yet. And I think it's an important key to unlock all of our relationships. What's our relationship to our environment? What's our interior relationship to our external art? And then how are we sharing our art with the world? If we thought of things in terms of kinship more often, I think we'd have a lot less devastation in the world. Yes, I believe so. I, you know, I believe a lot of where we are at is due to that failure of understanding that the relationships we are in are relationships of kin, of kinship, because I think our society has become so has narrowed down what it means to so much to be sort of, you know, first family and forgotten everything else. Right. Right. And so then, you know, you become an artisan, craft person as environmentalist and vice versa. Mm hmm. Mm So along with going on your daily walks and making your arts and crafts, what are some other forms of spiritual practice that you find helpful that you engage with on a regular basis? So I have long, you know, I almost always start the day with meditation, silent meditation, followed by a cup of tea. And I use that to try and set my day. So the first thing I am doing is not going straight to my email and solving, you know, customer issues or, you all that. And it gives me a little bit of distance. A lot of what I do that I consider, that I call spiritual practice is woven into what I do every day. I'm a gardener. know, some of you know, gardening is perhaps, you know, one of my maybe not primary, but certainly top spiritual practices. So nurturing, growing, even cutting down and that serves as a really helpful connector to those. the wheel of the year on a really, really local level. One of the things, one of the practices I started pre-COVID now, I was gonna say a couple of years ago and then thinking, no, no, no, it's been longer ago than that was, you know, I was noticing, you know, that like many people, I was spending more and more time staring at a screen or social media. I've got a little computer and you know, we call a phone in my pocket. And I really wanted to shift my relationship with that. So one of the walks I take every day, I stop, I take a photograph of the same view every day and use that as a chance to breathe, to pray in particular, and then move on. And that has helped me shift my relationship with technology from it being something that's... It really was, you you're not exactly unhealthy, but close to to, look, this is another tool. And it's also a tool for observation. Yes. I'm like, my camera is a tool for observation now. But because I've added in that spiritual element, it's also becoming a magical tool. So, know, and then, you know, and then obviously, you know, a lot of what I do, you know, Crafting I also see as you know a lot of my magical practice and then you know I spend a lot of time teaching students teaching workshops online So that too is woven into my day right So what is it, what's one of the challenges of being a full-time you? You know, you're a full-time artist, crafter, gardener, teacher, right? You cobble together a living in your country cottage with your hound. What's one challenge you face around that? boundaries with time off. am terrible with, you know, trying to give myself time off. I am pretty good at being able to go for a week away. But day to day, I am generally working in some way, or form, seven days a week. I have struggled with that for a very, very long time. And partly that's the way my brain works, you know, with an ADHD brain, it's, there are many distractions, which is also enables me to do as many things as I do. But also, it gives me that challenge of never really figuring out a way how to switch off in my own home. I'm similar. I work seven days a week. Now I don't work full days all seven days. know, one of the reasons I work seven days a week is I enjoy my work. Like I know you enjoy your work. Yep. But another reason is with a chronic illness, I'm and a brain injury, I'm never sure when my days are going to be good. What I, know, quote unquote, good days. or bad days. And so by working seven days a week, I can say, you know what, I'm only working an hour today. Or actually, I need this entire day off now. I don't I don't take enough full days off. And I'm aware of that. But I also like the flexibility. So it's not like I'm working full out full time every single day of the week. there's, there's an ebb and flow that I need to pay attention to. And I'm fortunate in that I am an internally motivated person, which is also a downfall, right? It means I could just work all the time because there's always work to be done and there's always the next project. And, know, I'm always juggling too many projects, but it also means it's possible for me with my challenges, to. keep producing the things I love to produce, right? So I'm, I'm guessing you're also an internally motivated person. Yes, certainly highly motivated. And you know, like you, have, you know, some chronic illnesses that means working and regular nine to five job would very rapidly make me very sick. Yeah, I think also, I mean, if I wasn't as internally motivated as I was, Unfortunately, the need to pay bills is also a very worthy, a very powerful external motivator, shall we say. Yeah, it is. And, you know, it's just necessary, I think, to be an independent artist or to run a cottage industry. You it's I see people who are trying to run a cottage industry or be a full time artist who are not internally motivated. And it's exponentially harder for them and almost impossible in a lot of cases. Yes, I have noticed similar. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for talking about that challenge. I'm sure a lot of people are going to relate to that. So back to art and magic. When did you actually start making magical tools and what was the inspiration or impetus for that? crikey. I think the first things I started making intentionally were charms entirely for myself and I would make a charm out of some natural material. Every year, we went on a family holiday, and it was a good one. So to hold the intention of that joy to remember the rest of the year when things were potentially far more challenging. So I think, you know, they were certainly perhaps the most, the earliest explicit things I made magically was I was probably maybe 13, 14. At that point. And then began, you know, when I, you when I became a teenager and was allowed access to the town library, which had a far better metaphysical section than the aforementioned girls Christian school. Funnily enough, and then started actually sort of try experimenting and making, you know, the magic, kind of magical tools that one finds in you know, beginner witchcraft books. Right. And, you know, and also, and of course, you know, not forgetting my love affair with the Anglo-Saxon runes, a la Tolkien. And I taught myself to write English in runic and then of course had to make my own set of runes for divination with went again, pretty, it was probably 15 or 16 at that point. and then ended up making them for a number of other kids in the class. Wow. That is so cool. Yeah. When did you start working with the OAM system, the Irish system? That came later. So when I was probably, that would have been when I went to university. So when I was sort of 18, 19 and began to read sit on the floor of bookshops and read everything that I could get my hands on and discovered, you know, an alphabet of trees. And given that I was a tree geek and a budding biologist, I mean, it seemed like it was made for me. You're the only person I've encountered, I'm sure there are others in the world who actually carves the oom staves from the wood associated with that tree. There are a few folk and certainly I've taught a number of students over the years who have it as their grand goal to try and do that. it's collecting 20 trees is a challenge. Yes. Yeah. Now, do you only use local trees? Is that how it works for you? Yes, I only use as local as I can possibly get. And the agreement that I have with the sort of spirits of the trees and part of my commitment to the work with the oom is that I will not harvest living wood for the purpose of creating oom sets. So I set myself up a big challenge to find, you know, wood that's either storm fallen or, you know, other people's prunings. Right. And then you just store that until it's time to make the sets. Yes. So I mean, the wood for my own sets, most of it comes from Somerset. Some of it comes from Cornwall where my, you know, my father lives. Right now I've also got a huge bundle of heather in the workshop that I found while I was on Orkney. Wow. Yes. I have a drum from Orkney. love it. Yeah, my my Boron is from Orkney and it has the the runes from the cave that from the caves carved around the edge. wow. Yeah, it's it's a very special tool. So you've talked about magic being woven into your life every day. But what about the word? What does the word magic mean to you? Hmm. One of the quotes I sometimes quote when people ask me, your magic is the art of noticing and causing coincidence. you know, and that's, you know, and that's not, you know, that's a quote from a number of different places or threads drawn, but so part of what it feels to me is important is that noticing part. and being aware and being observant and being present to effect change in the world. And, you know, my non-magical friends might call that coincidence. For me, a lot of magic is creating ways to increase the chances of coincidence, in part just by being present and noticing when they happen and nudging things. You've become a serendipity magnet. Yeah. Right? Yes. Yes. Well, and I think most artists, their key power is that power of noticing and being present with, because it's not just observation. It's we're back to relationship and kinship again, right? You know, most of the most of the regularly consistent artists I know, are great observers and noticeers and really feel that relationship with the world around them and then bring that forth through whatever their art form is. Yes. And I think that's so similar to magic is it is about being in relationship. Right. And not only the relationships. Yeah, I mean, I'm even thinking of like the the ancient Greeks. Like Iamblichus talking about, I can't remember now the word he used, but it's basically resonance, right? Well, if I look at this flower or burn this type of incense, it has these qualities that this deity I'm honoring has. And so it gives me, when I look at the flower or smell the incense, I have greater resonance with that deity I'm trying to connect with. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, so that's another long term practice that I think arises in just probably just about every culture. We all have forms of connection. And in the world, you know, in the world right now, I think people are so desperate to connect. And yet we also are using systems to connect that cause disconnection. Right? And so it's a problem. And it's even a problem in our brains, right? Our brain wiring is changing in ways that is strange and hard to deal with. Right? You know, you talked earlier about you didn't use these words, but you know, social media addiction is a real problem right now. But social media has also been a great connective tool, right? We've learned a lot about ourselves and each other. We see the world through different people's eyes. We hear music we would never hear otherwise. So this connection, disconnection, being married together. How do we, how do we, I mean, you talk about one way you deal with it, which is switching your phone into a tool, right? And using it to help you with a form of spiritual connection. And I certainly do the same. Do you have any other insights into how we can deal with this marriage of deep connection and deep disconnection that we're all facing right now? I know I'm asking you a massive question. I was gonna say how- So I was lucky, I did an equinox ritual, an autumn equinox ritual with a couple of dear friends who happened to be in the area. And we were working with the stave from the oom of Heather. And Heather is sort of being in, about being in right relationship and being in balance, that, you know, life and death. And we spent a lot of time in sacred conversation around some of these things and noticing what are the things that help us when we get overwhelmed? What are the things that bring us back into right relationship? And the three of us sat there and I think we came up with sort of six or eight or 10 different things that were different for all of us, including, being able to go outside, stick your hands in the earth, or in a plant pot if you can't get outside, I think... being in relationship slash being in community and community is always a challenging word, you know, and a concept to throw out there. But noticing who your local community are, whether it's the people in the post office, whether it's the dog walker every day and being able to try and balance that with the all-consuming black eye of the phone or the computer. So that's sort of something that I'm perhaps using as a guide for my own practice this year is that idea of what does it look like to be in right relationship? What does it look like to be in balance? And some of those things I think that bring me into right relationship and balance are at times really fricking inconvenient. They're like, I don't necessarily want to do that. but it's so much cheaper to buy on, you know, Amazon or something rather than going into the local store. And I think, you as I'm talking, you know, and partly trying to summarize an enormous amount of ideas and thoughts into very short space of time, a lot of That for me is actually very mundane, but because it's linked to my spiritual practice, that's what makes it more magical and, you know, the spiritual. That makes sense. I mean, I definitely make an effort to go out to my local shops. I make an effort to talk with my immediate neighbors, right? Because we've also lost a lot of that. basic community is like, who are your neighbors? Do you know them? Can you talk to them? If you have a problem, can you just go to them? Right? Yes. And, you know, and I think, you know, I noticed, you know, the first port of calls, you know, for so many of us, you know, I'm having a bad day. I'll post about it on Facebook. Right. Or whatever your chosen social media is, rather than, you know, you know, walking down the road and knocking on my friend's door and saying, Hey, you want a coffee? Yeah. And it's not that what you know, one is necessarily better than the other. But when we entirely base our lives on, know, hundreds of people that are thousands of miles away, that face-to-face human connection is lost. I think it also means that we lose the sort of cross-generational relationships, friendships that, you know, I have locally. And also sometimes we can, you know, online it can be far more polarized. You know, my neighbor, might not necessarily be friendly with him if he wasn't my neighbor. He's not someone I would have found online. Right. I definitely have that where I live as well. Right. But we still help each other out. Yes. Right. It doesn't matter that we have differing opinions on things. No. You know, and this brings me to when you were talking about the Heather O'Han and and right relationship. I got the image of the El Hajj rune. which we often say, it's the rune of protection, but really it's a rune of boundary, right? It's the sedge, it's the sharp reeds at the water's edge that denote, here's where one thing ends and another thing begins, right? Mark this boundary, right? And so to have right relationship, we have to comprehend what boundaries are. Yes. And when we need them. sometimes we throw up too much protection and we isolate ourselves. And then sometimes we don't have enough. We don't have any boundaries. so it's just a mud puddle instead of water versus land. So there's something about using our magic and using our art and using that sense of kinship and right relationship to also say, what boundaries do I have and what boundaries do I need in order for my relationship with you and with the world around me to remain healthy? Yes. Yeah, which is tricky. But I think it's something that would it would help us I think if we thought more in those terms. Yes, I agree. And I very much like that imagery of that, the land and the water's edge and that boundary. And also having the image that water laps, the boundaries don't have to be rigid. They can shift a little bit. But knowing where they're there and being able to make a choice. whether we shift that boundary or not feels to me important. Yes. And they also shift with time. Yes. And I think that's another thing about both art and magic. You know, the longer I do it, the longer I do both practices, the more appreciative I am of time and what I call the slow build, right? And what's my long-term relationship here? You know, I don't I don't want fast culture. I I can enjoy some aspects of fast culture, right? Because there's energy there. Yeah, but but I can't It's a treat, right? I can't build I can't build from it Right. It's an eruption and eruptions are great And eruptions bring a different kind of change. But I'm also really interested in what's the long term project? What's my long term relationship to my writing, to the world around me, to my magic and my spiritual practice and to my own life, right? Yeah. And that also takes us outside of the short term gains that the capitalist system forces us into, High productivity, instantaneous gratification, right? That's an unhealthy, untenable relationship as we see. just here in the US had the massive storm that has caused so much devastation. including to people I know personally, and that's all a product of instant gain, make more money, right? Yeah, absolutely. And so that brings me back to one thing I appreciate so much about your artistic process is it is very slow. Yes, it can be. You create a lot, but you know, even you saying I've maybe had this pendant for 10 years or I've had to collect these staves over time because I only collect deadfall. Right. And then I have to dry them in my wood shop until they're ready to be cut and carved. Right. You have a lot of things going on all at once, but it strikes me as mostly your work is about trading off which long-term slow moving project you're working on at any time? yes, I think so. One the frustrations that some of my customers have is they'll send me a note and they'll say, I want an oak wand. And I'm like, I can absolutely make you an oak wand and here's the timeframe. And they're like, but you're telling me it might be three months. And I'm like, three months is the minimum. you know, can't you find me oak now? And I, you know, I have to explain, you're well, it's the middle of the summer. And in the summer, the sap is running up. And if I, even if I find a piece of green oak, you know, after a storm, I can't work with it until it's dry, because it's going to split. And it's going to be useless. And I think that's, you know, a really, you know, powerful metaphor sometimes to remind myself and other people is like, if we try and rush things. it's going to fall apart. And I think that's where we are at as a globe. You we try to move things too fast, rather than being patient. Yeah. And that's true of our own lives, our own mental and physical and spiritual health and wellbeing. Right. How often are we pushing ourselves too fast and too hard? What enables us to take a breath and slow down inside? for that. That's really helpful. So one final question to wrap up. What is your current why? What is your current sense of purpose? Because this is what it means to be a human in this world and to be in right relationship with the world. I think. I could say perhaps a little flippantly because the gods that I work with are calling, don't give me a choice. But of course, we always have choice. I have choice, I could say no. But because this work is actually what makes my heart sing, that your comment about resonance, the work that I am doing now, whether it's creating, whether it's talking, whether it's teaching, creates that feeling of resonance in me, that makes me feel that this is what I am supposed to be doing right now. Yes. Beautiful. And I choose not to have a choice because right now that feels right. It may change in the future and something else may come up, but right now it feels that this is where and what I am supposed to be being and doing. Beautiful. Thank you. Well, thanks again for coming on the show and talking to me today. This was a terrific conversation. And thank you so much for inviting me. And so this was Raven Edgewalker and you can find their work at greenwomancrafts.etsy.com and at worldtreelyceum.org. And as always, I'm T. Thorn Coyle and you can find me at thorncoyle.com. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining me. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. And if you would like to support this series and future podcasts, please join me at patreon.com slash thorn coyle That's T H O R N C O Y L E. Have a creative and magical day.