Adam "Tex" Davis on Film, TV, and Creative Risk

In this conversation, author T. Thorn Coyle interviews Adam Tex Davis, a seasoned screenwriter and producer, about his creative journey, the challenges of the film industry, and the importance of collaboration and resilience in the creative process. Adam discusses the balance of ego in creativity, writing for film and television, and the emotional experiences that fuel his storytelling. The discussion highlights the challenges and rewards of a creative life, including the necessity of adapting to change.

Find out more about Adam at https://www.atomicentertainment.com

You can support this podcast at https://www.patreon.com/c/ThornCoyle

Transcript

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Hello everybody, welcome back to Magic Creativity and Life. Today I'm talking with Adam Tex Davis. Adam is a screenplay writer. Let me start that over, screenplay writer. Okay. Hello everybody, welcome back to Magic Creativity and Life. My name is Tithorn Coyle and I'm here today with Adam Tex Davis. Adam is a screenwriter who has worked on Emmy Award nominated shows, film, television. He co-founded Atomic Entertainment, a full service film and TV production company. And they do work for National Geographic and a lot of other... God, I'm really having trouble with this. It's because I don't have a short one to read. I should have just typed one up. I'm just going to start over. Sorry. Yeah, don't even, you know, it's like I'm a look, I'm a screenwriter, a producer, a podcaster. I've worked in movies and film and, know, film and TV. I wouldn't go much crazier than that. Okay, great. Third time's the charm. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Magic, Creativity, and Life. My name is T. Thorn Coyle, and today I'm here with Adam Tex Davis. He is a screenwriter, producer, filmmaker, co-founder of Atomic Entertainment, and has worked in the film industry for over 20 years. Adam, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me, it's pleasure. So I ask every guest to start with, what are your creative roots? What were some of your early forms of creative expression? My earliest, let's see, well, I tell this story sometimes, I got into movies pretty early and I loved, I think it was like seven or eight when Star Wars came out and I saw that in the theater and I am not alone in having that movie blow my mind. But the thing that I did that I think was different than a lot of kids my age is, When I got home from the theater, I just kept telling myself the story over and over again. And then I sat down and I wrote the movie from memory in my own words and described everything that I remember happening and told basically like rewrote the movie. But, you know, just, you know, like a journal and, you know, filled up the entire notepad. And I remember my parents were like, that's, that's interesting. And, you know, I was like, I figured everybody was doing that. And they were like, no, why would we sit and write the movie? know, and I think early on I realized, yeah, I kind of loved writing. I love just using my words and writing things down. And one of the things that happened for me is, yeah, was like seventh grade in middle school. There was a statewide competition, a writing competition, like a creative writing competition. And They decided to have everybody enter it. It was mandatory. if you, know, every seventh grader had to write a story to enter into this competition and most people, yeah, they were groaning. I can't believe we have to do this. And I was excited. So I, you know, thought of a crazy story, a sci-fi thing, blah, blah, And I wrote this story and turned it in and, know, don't think anything of it. And months later we're gathered in the auditorium and we don't even know why. And they announced that I won. the contest. And, okay, great. I go up and they get an award. And there's people from the contest. I had no idea. And then in eighth grade, they did the same thing. The comp that you know, the competition came around again. In and this is in New Jersey. And I don't remember the name of the competition. But they, you know, they came around again. And the teacher said, Okay, everybody needs to write a story. And he said, But Adam, you know, you won last year, I know you like to write. You could sit this one out. You don't have to do it. And I was like, what? No, I want to do it. And I thought of a new story and I entered a new story and I won again. And that made me realize, maybe there's something to this. Maybe I have a good, you know, maybe I have a gift for telling a story. that really started, yeah, that started my writing journey. Wow, so did you have support from your family or friends around this? friends know friends, you know, growing up small town Jersey. It's like, wait, you want to sit home and write? no, they were not supportive. My parents were very supportive. My mom, especially, in fact, while I was still in high school, she signed me up for a thing. was a thing called the children's, literature workshop or something. And it was, you, you apply, you, you write something. And then if they accept you. you work one-on-one with a published children's author and they help your writing. And they would give me assignments, like they'd send me a picture of just a scene. And they would say, can you take that scene and turn it into a story? So I would do stuff like that. And that was actually stuff that I used to apply to college, to NYU. And... I got in not because I made, you know, I got into the film program, but I didn't get in through making a movie or film. I got in through my writing. Interesting, so you went to NYU for screenwriting then. I went more for, I'd say directing than screenwriting. Like I took screenwriting courses, but that felt so, that felt so far away. Like there was no, you know, like writing a feature film. So I was thinking in terms of short things, you know, so, you know, the other, the other story I tell is, you know, my, my, I guess my approach to writing, I call it bad journalism. And by that, mean, you for a while I thought, you know, I loved Stephen King growing up. I thought maybe I would write horror stories. Then I got really into journalism and I got on the paper and my high school had a great school newspaper. And I got on the paper right away as a freshman and I worked my way up. And then I was like managing editor by senior year. And I was loving writing articles. except I had this nasty habit that if the if the story wasn't good enough, I would like embellish it a little bit quote, self as an unnamed source, I would make it a little better, you know, and that's bad journalism, you're not supposed to do that. So I realized I had enough journalistic integrity to know that I didn't have enough journalistic integrity. And so I was like, hmm, well, how can I you know, how can I transition what's the version that I could do that? And it's like, screenwriting is a perfect way to use bad journalism. You take a kernel of something that's real, and then you embellish it and you make it funnier and bigger and better. And you make the bad guy worse and you make the good guys better and you make, know, and yeah, so that's how I kind of got into this idea of screenwriting or writing for movies. But, you know, at film school, it's shorts. So I was thinking in terms of short form. So I got into film school and I did, I made a short film and that was actually a catalyst for me having a career because my short film won a bunch of festivals and went out, somebody brought it out to Los Angeles and then I was able to get a manager and from there an agent. And then by that point I was writing feature scripts. That's amazing. So have you, you've also worked in television. Have you worked in writers rooms or have you mostly done feature full length scripts? mostly feature scripts, but then what happened was, yeah, you know, the film business, I mean, look, I had a move, you know, I had several movies get made, and things were going great. I was getting hired a lot to do write up, rewrites and punch ups and, things like that. And I was selling, I sold a few, you original ideas. had a couple of movies get made. I had a, like a made for cable, you know, a made for TV cable movie get made. I had Just Friends was my big thing with a romantic comedy starring Ryan Reynolds and Anna Faris. So things were going well and I was getting hired to do rewrites and punch-ups and stuff. And then around 2008, there was a strike and the business contracted a lot and it became very hard to get any writing work. I had three projects going into the strike, coming out of it. All of them were dead. you know, executives were fired. one company was no longer. So it was like, no. so yeah, I kind of got into television and at first I was doing scripted TV where I would come up with an idea and I would pitch it and I would sell it. And then I would write the pilot. So I was kind of by myself and it was my show, but they didn't go beyond the pilot stage. They never got, you know, to the point where they're making the show. When, you know, a friend of mine, who's now my business partner at Atomic, man named Jerry Colbert, who I went to film school with, and we had sort of parallel careers, he was doing more television, and I was doing film, he was working on a quote unquote reality show that needed a writer. And we were at a party and he told me about the show, and it happened to be a job show. And it was the job that my father did for a living. It was about meat purveyors who sell meat to restaurants. And in fact, had to, know, thank God, you know, my father had retired recently. Otherwise, I wouldn't probably want to work on the show because it was a conflict of interest because it was a rival company. yeah, so I worked on this meat show with Jerry and we had a lot of fun doing it. And then from there, we actually, you know, I said to him, I said, this is great, but I really think we should pitch our own shows. And then we were able to get the show Brain Games for National Geographic Channel. And that took off for us. And that did have a writer's room, but I was in charge of it, you know, because I had a lot of experience. mean, in a way I've worked my way backwards. So it's like writing a movie is really, you know, hard and involved in all that. Writing a TV show is less than writing a movie. Doing a podcast is less than doing a TV show. every, you know, as I've progressed, It's easier for me because I've had the experience of doing the bigger, you know, more involved thing first. What do you find the effects on your creative process are from working more in isolation on a big project to working more collaboratively? Does your creative process change? You know, at every turn, it's collaborative. know, the film business is always collaborative. It might start with you alone in a dark room in your underwear writing, but eventually once it sees the light of day, there's other people, whether it's my manager giving me thoughts and notes, whether it's the studio executive. If you're fortunate enough to have your script go to the next, you know, the level, like if gets bought, they're gonna give you notes, then they're gonna hire a director and the director's gonna have thoughts, then you're gonna get a cast and now you're gonna rewrite the script to fit your cast a little bit more. So at every turn, there's collaboration. The only time you really are alone in isolation is when you're beginning. And as far as like a TV show or something, yeah, I mean, you're collaborating with other people. I've been fortunate enough to be like, I'm the guy that they're submitting their scripts to. So then I would give the notes or I would do a rewrite punch up on their script. And I'm doing a lot of that now with the scripted podcasts and stuff that I do. I have writers that submit their scripts and then I do the final punch up and that's what gets recorded. So yeah, but at every turn you are collaborating. Yeah, that's very different from my process. My writing is very much done in isolation until it goes to an editor or a first reader, right? So it's a very different process and that's interesting to me. And the other thing listening to you brings up for me is the role of ego in creativity and collaboration, right? Because when you're... Everyone needs a certain amount of ego, right? Healthy ego to create, to put their work out there in the world, to make a living, do all the things we do as human beings, right? But in collaboration, especially the kind of collaboration you're talking about, it feels like you also need to let your attachment to things go by the wayside, right? It sounds like you need to keep your ego in balance. And I'm wondering if you have thoughts about that for people. Sure. Well, here's the thing. It's like, you have to have enough of an ego and enough of, like, you have to grow that rhinoceros skin, that impenetrable skin that will allow you to hear, a lot, to have people critique your stuff, to say this isn't good, or that they're not going to buy it. You you have to be able to survive that. But at the same time, you also... You know, you can't be one of these people, at least I don't think professionally, where you fight everything and you, you know, you have to pick your battles. You have to know when to, when, you know, when to argue and when to step back. and look, that, that was all stuff I had to learn. mean, in the beginning, I was picking every battle and I'd had my manager and my agent and I, and other people like, Hey, hey, ease up a little bit. Like let the producer have, you know, let them have one and then you fight for that. But also you get better at arguing your point and, you know, trying to make their idea work. And if you can't make it work, you show them and say, look, I tried your idea and it just didn't work. But like, here's what I did. What do you think? And then, you know, sometimes I've won arguments that way by, you know, creative differences, they call it, you but it's like, you know, you can show like, hey, or maybe there's some, you know, combination of what they brought in and you brought in, but Yeah, you have to have the healthy ego to survive this business because it's very easy to just feel like, okay, I'm, you know, nevermind, it chewed me up, spit me out. You know, like there was an example I use, I had a movie that I wrote and it had a very specific, you know, the lead actor was supposed to be this big, heavy set guy who over the course of the movie will like lose some weight and get in shape. But, you know, we had an actor. who was perfect for that part. And he was like a schlubby guy at first, and then he becomes this better person. But he's also losing his mind. I won't get into the whole details. But the point is, it was a cool thing that I thought it was really cool. And we had the perfect actor for it. And then that actor had to go do a, he got hired for a TV show. So he was out. And they came back to me with a new guy that they wanted to use who was not. that character at all. In fact, was like a fairly good looking, skinny guy. And I was like, wait, what? It's like you're messing with the whole idea of the movie. And they were like, no, no, I think it'll be better. And I was like, I can't imagine it being better. And I remember calling my agent and saying, what do I do? And he says, well, look, you got three choices. You could say, no, I'm not going to rewrite the movie for this new actor. And you walk away and the movie goes nowhere and it's done. You could say, no, I'm not gonna do it. And they go and they hire some kid out of film school. They don't have a lot of money. It was an indie movie. They could hire somebody to just rewrite it for you. And then, you know, that's the movie. Or you go back there and you say, you know, all right, fine, I'll give it a shot. What do you wanna do? And I was like, all right, so you basically, there's one choice. And I went back and, all right, let's see if we can make this work. And, you know, I think we did, but unfortunately the movie. I don't know. It's sitting on a shelf. It got made, but, you know, it never came out. So. You got paid, but no one ever saw it. Yeah, some people saw it in a film festivals. It was pirated and what it was overseas I know Amazon Prime had it for a second. It's just like one of these weird. Yeah weird stories You know For a while it was like the low point and again, that's the ego That's where you have to have the ego to survive stuff like that And say look I'm going to write lots of things this was one thing I wrote and I'm it's it's just on my timeline, you know and You move past it and you write more, then you do other stuff. It's the throw 100 pots school of creativity rather than trying to perfect a single pot, right? Yeah. In fact, I have that conversation with friends a lot where they've written something and then they get rejection, so they go home and tinker on it. And now they're trying it again. And maybe it gets rejected again. Or people don't want to look at it again. And I was like, you've got to move on. Put it down. It exists. It's there. You could put it down and you can do other things and you could always revisit it. But stop if you're just spinning your wheels on the same project. Like, you you might not go anywhere. know, so yeah, your pots, metaphor works. Yeah, I years ago when I first took my hand tried my hand at writing fiction, I would labor over a single short story, you know, for like a year, which is ridiculous. And I would just kill my creative voice. It killed the enjoyment. And of course, those stories would never were never going to sell, you know. And I would have been better off writing 10 more short stories. You know, it would have. taught me more about craft, it would have taught me more about letting go, the letting go process you're talking about, it would have taught me more about how to deal with ego, I think. Yeah, but at the same time, you now look back and you realize, okay, I, know, so it did teach you, it just took longer. it just took a lot longer. That's true. So as far as what to fight for and what to let go, is there some internal process you have that helps you with discernment? Or is it just random in the moment you have to make a decision? I think you just, have to weigh, you know, like everything you write or, know, it's like, there's a reason you wrote it. There's like, what are you trying to say? What, what, what's important to you? And then how in the scheme of things, how much of what they're arguing to change or whatever, how much does it affect everything? And, know, a lot of times, yeah, people, there are, there are people that will argue every single point and then You know, I've gotten to the point where, yeah, it's like, okay, does this affect the big picture? Does this scene matter so much that, you know, they say this or that? Now granted, you know, I've been in the situation where I've, like, you know, I've been overruled, where I know I was right. And then after it came out or whatever, and it's like, I've had them come up to me, you know, I guess you were right. You know what? It was better the way it was. Yeah, I know. I know. So you gotta eat that sometimes. That will happen. And then other times you'll win and maybe you were wrong. And then other times you win and it turns out, thank God that they saw it your way. The very first script I ever sold, I'll tell a story. Unfortunately, it's got a person at the center of it that's not a good person. But I did sell my very first script. was bought by Harvey Weinstein at Miramax. Yes, I apologize. Trigger warning. you know, he, you know, it was a script I wrote that was based on my bad journalism where I wound up on spring break with my parents. And I was a year out of school, out of college, and my parents had a timeshare in Cancun and they invited me and my girlfriend and my brother and his girlfriend. And we were all going to go. And then my brother couldn't get off work. And so they weren't going. And then my girlfriend couldn't get off work. And so she wasn't going. And my parents were like, you still going to come with us, right? And I was like, you know what? I'm right out of school. Why not? I'll just go. It'll be fun. And we show up. And it's like, welcome, Spring Breakers. And the whole hotel, everything is just filled with kids partying. And I'm like, my god, I'm on Spring Break with my parents. So I quickly bought a notebook. And I just jotted down every stupid thing that happened. And I tried to manipulate as many stupid things as possible. Get my mom in a foam party at Senor Frogs, whatever I could do to, you my dad smoking weed in a hot tub with the frat boys, like anything I could manipulate or, you know, record that would be fun for a movie. So I write this movie, it's called Sunburned and it's about a kid who combines his family vacation in order to go on spring break because he can't afford it in order to pursue the girl he's in love with. And it's kind of like a teen sex comedy, American pie-ish and very funny, I thought. And my management and agent, they loved it and we went out with it and it didn't sell. So I was bummed. And I actually started writing Just Friends in the aftermath of that not selling, but then I get a call. You're not going to believe this. Some people at Miramax, they got ahold of your script. They were reading it. They were laughing. And Harvey said, what's everybody laughing at? the script. and read it and laughed and they couldn't believe he's laughing. He never laughs at anything. And he said, I want this, I'm buying this, get me this kid, bring him in here. And next thing I know, I'm in a meeting with Harvey Weinstein. And, you know, I'm like nervous. mean, you know, and this is before all the stuff came out, but, and, and, he is, you know, he is the, every bit, the character and the monster that you've hear and, you know, loud and crazy. And he says to me, he goes, all right, I like your script. But kids, hate their parents. So I want to lose the parents. And I was just like, it's a movie about a kid who goes on spring break with his parents. If you lose the parents, it's a movie about a kid who goes on spring break. And I know, I know it'll be great. And I was just like, I don't know what the, you know, what does that mean? So I left and he's like, if you do it though, I'll buy it. So I have to just say, I'll do it. And then I go out and I'm like, what do I do? It's my first sale potentially. but he's destroyed the whole movie. So I was able to complain enough to the, know, whatever, and we were able to get the parents back into the movie, but like as a B story or a C story, and he had some cockamamie ideas. And honestly, yeah, it didn't work. It didn't get made, but I did, yeah, I got paid. So yeah, it was like, it was an interesting. But it was like the very first, yeah, it's like that typical horror story. The very first thing you sell is a story about this and the guy wants to immediately just change it and run it. So. Well, including taking out all the comedy, right? The comedy is the juxtaposition of the kid and his parents. I know, I know, it was weird. he has this friend who gets all these girls and he wanted the guy to show up and meet this friend of his who's like a guru of getting girls. It was actually disgusting, to be honest. And like, in light of everything that's come out, it's like, yeah, okay, yeah, sure, why not? I get it. Yeah, yeah. But, and you know, and here's a pro tip. Like, you go a lot by feeling, right? You know, so it's like, When the script didn't sell, I was feeling really crappy, because we were so high on that this was going to sell. And I remember thinking like, when else have I felt this crappy? And I was like, I know. When I was in the friend zone with this girl I was in love with in college for two years, and she had a boyfriend, but I was her best friend, and she always wanted me around, and I made her laugh, and she would always complain about how big a jerk her boyfriend was. And I was like, okay, she's going to dump him and pick me. And for two years, I turned down any other potential thing. just was her friend zone guy and it never worked out. We never got together. And she wound up moving off with that guy. And I was just like, you know, okay, there, can't be the only one that this has happened to. And that's what allowed me to write Just Friends. And I knew it had a shot of doing something because when I sent it to my manager, the first thing he, after he read it, he goes, is this about me? And I was like, what? No, how would I write about you? like guys, know, the people that would read it would think, you know, the friend zone and, know, that was their story. So I knew it had a shot, but it all came because of the emotion of feeling crappy after the non-sale, the first script, and tapping into that and then writing something that, you know, that that channeled. So. So that's interesting because so many people, like you said, they either belabor the thing that didn't work. But I think a lot of other people just give up, right? And you are talking about a form of resiliency where you're just like, I'm in a crappy phase. I'm not feeling great. What am I going to do? I'm going to create something new, right? And I think that is key to creative longevity for people. And certainly to build a career, right? Because for most people, it's not easy to build a career in the arts. And you managed to pretty much ride out of the gate, which is astounding. But I think part of it, I wonder if part of it isn't that resilience that you have to just keep creating no matter what. I mean, the joke I make is I'm not that good at most other things. Like, you know, I was working in a bagel store and I was working in a car wash factory where we made parts that go in a car wash. And my agent used to send me off on like five meetings a day when I would go out to LA and he'd send me on like five general meetings and he'd say, I'm sorry about all these meetings. And I would say, dude, my, my worst day of screenwriting is better than my best day of car wash factory. So I am happy to do this if this will, if any of this could potentially be fruitful. So, I mean, look, if you, you know, if you can give up, then it's not for you. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, yes, nobody has to do a career in the arts. And I look, it's, it's great to be creative. And I always say like to people like, separate it. Like, do you want to be creative as a hobby or do you want to be creative professionally? If you want to be creative as a hobby, great. Paint a picture, knit, crochet, learn how to make great dinners. If writing is your thing, then write stuff, but you don't have to do it and you do it when you feel like it. If you want to do it professionally, then you're to get your ass kicked. You're going to get back up and you're going to do it again. And you know, you're going to write stuff that you don't want to write. You're going to be sometimes tasked with assignments that you're not thrilled about. My agent would call me up and he'd look, they're looking for a rewrite for this. And I'd be like, ugh. And then he'd be like, do you want to try for it or not? And I'm like, well, it's money. They're paying for it. Let me see if I can connect to it in any way. If I could find a way in and make it palatable, then I'll go for it. Why not? And sometimes you get a job and you're like, great, I got the job. And then it's like, shit, I got the job. But you know, that's what writing professionally is. It is getting knocked down, getting back up the same way a prize fighter like, you you get knocked down, you get, you get back up, you know, so. So one thing that helps me through all the ups and downs and changes of being a professional creative person, a professional writer in both our cases, though very different fields, is I have a meditation practice. I make sure I go for a walk outside every day. You know, I I center myself in various ways and I'm wondering if you have practices that help you maintain your connection to your center and your creative core. Well, absolutely. Well, I was going to say the most creative room in the house, I hate to say it, is the bathroom. You know, whether it's the shower or the toilet, you could think a lot in there and it's a great place to just think of, you know, sort of, you know, think of nothing else but, you know, just generate ideas. But also, yeah, walking is phenomenal. I've... I've literally, mean, one of my favorite stories is I got a call from a producer. They had a cartoon strip. It was called Zits and they wanted to turn this Zits cartoon strip into a movie. And this was back in probably mid 2000s, something somewhere around there. And I said, okay, I'm not super familiar with it. They sent me a bunch of books of the Zits cartoon. And I, you know, I looked through the books and I was like, all right, it's cool, you know, but it's, you know, it's four panels. It's a cartoon strip. It's not a movie and they certainly don't, you there's characters, but they, you know, it's not telling one big story. So I got to come up with what they call a take, you know, what's my take going to be that I could pitch and maybe get this job. So I had nothing. So I said, you know what, I'm going to go out, take a big walk around Prospect Park in Brooklyn. It's about four and a half, five miles total. I left the house with no idea about halfway around the park started to get a germ of an idea, but three quarters of the way I'm really starting to get some ideas. By the time I get almost around the park, am sprinting for home because I've got to write stuff down. and I, I basically pitched that the next day I said, here's my idea. And the guy was like, this is great. let's write it up a little bit and put a little more meat on the bone. And then, yeah, I wound up getting the job. So yeah, the walk around the park, I've gone to that well several times. Yeah, yeah, I have to go for a walk pretty much every day. For one thing, you I work from home, right, and I need to get out of the house. But just that activity of putting one foot in front of the other and feeling the air outside and noticing all the little things on my walk changes my whole attitude. And it definitely refills my well. So it's I'm not surprised to find that it does that for you too. And of course, you live in New York, New Yorkers all walk, right? Yes. We walk whether we want to or not. We have no choice. We're certainly not moving that car. We'll never get parked. So I want to segue a little bit into, I'm going to get back to some of your creative projects, but I want to segue a little bit into just life in general, the life part of my podcast title, Magic Creativity and Life. You have a partner, you have a daughter, you have a dog and a cat. And I'm just wondering, how you balance your creative process and your business process with all the rest of your life process. What's that like for you? it's tricky because you're never off, you know, and I, know, it's like, look, I have a lot of notepads. I have a lot of, and then, you know, or there'll be times where we're together and I'll be like, hang on, I need a second and I'll have to squirrel away somewhere. And even if it's just the notes app on my phone, because I've trained myself, if I have an idea, I have to write it down no matter what, because nothing is worse than that. That when you, when you can't remember an idea you had and you're just kicking yourself, like. for not writing that, so I constantly am writing stuff down or whatever. I bring my computer everywhere, even on vacation. But that's the good thing too though. can, my lifestyle, like with my wife, like I am home a lot and I can arrange to have time with her when most people are at their day job or whatever and we're hanging out and doing stuff. And then I know I'm gonna write later that night or, nighttime is actually the best time to write and then during the day is when I do a lot of rewriting. So, you that became the balance of, you know, trying to, yeah, trying to make time for your family. You know you're never off, but you also are not working that nine to five or 10 to six that's like you are, you know, chained to a desk or you're at an office or something. So in some ways it's very... It's very freeing. I joke with my wife, like we don't go on vacation as much as other people because our, you know, our day to day is actually kind of fun and we're together a lot. And it's not that, you know, I don't have that overwhelming need. I have to get away from the office, you know, which is kind of cool. And then the other good thing is I'm now doing a podcast with my wife. wow. What's the name of your podcast? So she's a big true crime fan. so I, you we wanted to get, you know, we were doing kids educational stuff, but we also wanted to do some adult stuff, my company. And I had this idea of murders and mysterious deaths that happen while you're on vacation. And like two people will go on vacation, one will kill the other and try to make it look like an accident. they fell off the cliff and try to, you know, collect the insurance money. So it's called slaycation. And my wife and business partner, they research the case and then they tell it to me. And I have, I'm in the dark so I can ask questions, make comments, make jokes if it's appropriate. And they're telling me the case and we have a ball recording this. And it's so great. mean, the only bad thing is she complains like she can't talk about the case with me. I'm not allowed to know anything. Right. so many times when she wants to tell me some crazy fact that she found or can you believe that? no, can't talk and so she like squirrels away in coffee shops so that she's not home and not tempted to talk to me but you know every two weeks where you know, the three of us are in the in recording studio and we have a ball and you know Jerry and I we've known each other for 30 plus years My wife and I have been together for 31 years. Jerry has known my wife for you know forever. So The three of us have great chemistry and great camaraderie. So it's from just being such a long time friends. So yeah, that's super fun. And so that's a good way to be able to work in family because now we're doing it together. know, recording promos. We're like this weird podcast family now. But. Yeah, it is important. I envy you for being able to get out of the house and walk every day. I say I'm going to do it. then a lot of times I don't because, here comes this email. here's this thing. I better deal with this. you know what? I just want to get one more thing done. And next time I know it, I look outside and it's dark and it's like, I guess I'm not going out today. Yeah, yeah, it's important for my mental and creative health and physical health, of course. Yeah. no, you're right. You're right. I need to force myself to do it Yeah, it's good. And again, speaking of, you know, I mentioned longevity and resilience earlier, and that's one of the things that I think helps my process around that too. Yeah. the other thing, you know, the other word I use a lot is versatility. You know, and that's been one thing that's helped me a lot. I've had to make, I've made a lot of pivots, but it's all within the same scope of things. I mean, at its core, you know, like I was the kid that won contests in seventh and eighth grade writing stories. Then I went to film school and I made... short films, but they were stories. Then I was telling, you know, movies, they're stories. TV shows can be stories, you know. So everything is, you know, based around storytelling, but being versatile, the more things within your craft that you can master, or at least get good enough at, the better at, you know, the easier you will have to be employable. you know, even within our podcast world. It's like, I'm writing promos, I'm writing songs, I'm writing, you know, all kinds of little, you know, little things that have to be written just in the daily, you know, production of the podcasts and stuff, little intros, you know, I'm doing all kinds of different types of writing every day. But, you know, being able to go from film to TV to scripted TV to quote unquote unscripted TV that still has a lot of writing apparently unscripted TV is very scripted. But you know, and then to podcasts and you know, like people say, how did you, you know, transition to podcasting? It's like, because the problem with, you know, with podcasting or not the problem, but the thing that's different is, you know, with, with movies and TV, it's, it's, you know, the mantra is show don't tell. And with a podcast, there is no show. So how do you tell, but in a way that's not just telling, you know, how do you, what's the most creative ways to tell somebody something. And, you know, with our kids' educational stuff, I could just tell the kids that the sun is actually white. It just looks orange because of the, you know, the dust and the rays and stuff. But, you know, instead I would say, hey, what color is the sun? Is it this? Is it that? You know, or true, false? Is it this color or that color? You know, and, you know, And let them answer, let them be interactive, let them lean in and have to think about it and call out an answer and then tell them the answer, you know, as opposed to just telling them the way like a teacher might. Right. I know in my own creative process, I also work on a variety of different projects. I write fiction, I write nonfiction, I write short stories, I write novels, I write long form nonfiction books, I write essays, I do podcasts, I've done music, right? I have four CDs that I used to be a dancer, right? So all forms of creative expression. And part of what that helps me with too is it keeps it fresh. and keeps me interested, right? I never want my creative process to feel like a chore, even when it's about making a living, right? So it keeps me engaged and it keeps me curious, too. What is this new thing or what is that next thing and how am I going to approach it? And, you know, you also brought up teaching children. You know, you've got all these children's science shows and brain shows. And that's invoking curiosity into those children too. So you have to be curious to help them be curious, right? a hundred percent. In fact, I mean, the joke I used to make, like, you know, the first foray into the educational space was, was brain games on, on the National Geographic channel, but that was for adults. Like it was meant to be for adults. And the joke I would make with Jerry is like your brain, I'm games. If I can turn neuroscience into something fun and funny that makes me interested, cause I'm not a big science guy. mean, I'm a, I'm a writer, but I was doing comedy and stuff like that. But if I can. find a way to make these things fun, then I think the audience will also be having fun and that'll help the show. you know, so that was like, you the way we did it. And the thing that, you know, with that show that was interesting was, again, it was meant to be for adults and the average age of a Nat Geo, you know, watcher, you know, was the audience member was 67. But then when our show played, the average age dropped down to like 35. Wow. we realized a ton of young people were watching, including my own daughter, who at the time was like eight. And I would show her pieces like unedited, know, or, you know, edited pieces that, know, just random stuff. And she was captivated. And I was like, my goodness, I think kids are going to love this show. And it changed the way I was writing it because, you know, I had an episode called Sex on the Brain and talking about how your brain reacts during sex and stuff. And I was like, Nope, not doing that. Became an episode on attraction. and what your brain finds attractive and stuff like that. And we softened it a little bit for knowing that kids were gonna watch. And then from there, yeah, I mean, we wound up doing this show, Brain Child, that was on Netflix, that was like just for kids, really, but family and stuff. And now I do Who Smarted is a educational podcast. But the point is, yeah, it just, you realized just how you have to, yeah. bring fun, bring curiosity to these things. And so again, it's the same thing. Can I add jokes? Can I make a science show that has jokes that are actually funny? know, not just, you know, I'm a look, you know, I was fortunate. I'm like an actual joke writer. So it's like, you know, a lot of these shows don't have somebody like that on their staff. So it helped elevate our shows to a point where people are like, no, no, this is genuinely funny. And like parents write to us all the time, like, My kid listens to Who Smarted and then they go into school and I sit in the car and I finish the episodes. I love that so much. That's so great. And you know, that's a perfect segue into the thing I want to talk about next as we start to wind down, which is magic and wonder, right? And creativity in the arts for me at its best, you know, they help us think, they might change our minds, they might give us an escape, but For me, the thing I really love is when they invoke a sense of magic and wonder. And the way you talk about these shows, especially the shows like Brain Child or Brain Games, it really evokes that for me. And I know that you also have a show called Making Magic where you're working with sleight of hand magicians. And I'm wondering what that's like to work magic with actual stage magicians. What's that been like for you? well, we, it's funny. We, we worked, like we had magic in brain games, because the things that fool your brain teach you how your brain works. So we did, we did a lot of magic in, in brain games. And what was great was we had a guy named Apollo Robbins who could do sleight of hand. He was a renowned like pickpocket. Like he could literally empty out everything you have, steal your glasses, be wearing your glasses in front of you. And you don't even realize it. The guy was amazing. But the thing I loved that he did was whenever he would meet somebody for the first time, he would do a magic trick. And his whole basis of how he saw you was your reaction to that magic trick. And he loved Jerry and I because we were freaking out. Like he did a trick and we're like, what? my God. What? I would like he's like here you you guys are you're the show runners You're obviously smart guys and you're running around like a bunch of like giddy little schoolgirls freaking out over my magic trick because I did the same trick to one of the executives at the channel and they just Crossed their arms and said how did you do that? And he's like the difference, you know in vibe he was like I loved you guys from day one because of the way you reacted to the magic and You know other people are just like, know, okay, whatever So yeah, people's reaction to magic is great. I mean, look, working with magicians is awesome. And listening to how they need to be filmed, we had a, no cuts, no cuts are allowed. We have to shoot it in one take. I don't care how long it takes. We can't cut. You cut away, it destroys the illusion. Right. we would just try to come up with really fun things that would look great on camera. Yeah, the Making Magic is like a series we did that is on Facebook where we worked with some magicians. And that was super fun too, because you talk to the magicians and you get like, it was almost like the way we described was the comedians in cars with coffee only for magic. So you. That's great. to the magician, they do smaller tricks and then they would do a big trick at the end, but also they would talk about their career and they would talk about, you know, the things that worked and didn't work and, you know, and get some real insight into the whole business. I mean, look, you know, they're liars. They're lying to you. They're saying that they're doing something that they're not doing. And, but the really skilled ones. I mean, there was nothing better when I would sit with a magician. and just write a really cool intro into their trick. They'd show me their trick. I'd say, that's great. What's the intro? How do I connect it to the brain? What's a cool way in? And yeah, I became really good friends with a whole bunch of magicians through that process and they're awesome. It's really fun. the difference between your response and the exec response is just beautiful. And it makes me think, you know, in this whole conversation, your energy is so wonderful and your enthusiasm is beautiful. And I feel as if you and your work and your life, you're an anti-cynic, right? You're the antithesis of a cynic. And that has to be, such great creative fuel too, right? You you draw upon your life and other people's, your interests and other people's interests to feed your work and your creative process. And then it transforms inside of you, which is another magical process. And you offer it to us in film and television. How fantastic is that, that you've been able to make your life and your living this way for all these years? Yeah, it's great. It's an unconventional. I mean, look, there are times where I'm like, be nice to have like a, you know, a steady paycheck, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. There's so many like jobs, like, you know, it was one of the hardest things for me to do. Sometimes what I'm writing is like to come up with the real job that my character's going to have. It's like, I don't even want to write about it. It's like, I don't know, he works in an office. He does business. I don't know. Like, It's like so not my world. And I'm so grateful in one way for that. But at the same time, there's, know, there's the, boy, okay, got to get that next thing going. I mean, you're always, you know, working on one project, but you're also looking at like, okay, when does this end? And, and, know, look, we got very lucky brain games went for like four years. We didn't have to think about our next gig because we were just doing multiple seasons of brain games, but then eventually it's like, okay, this is going to be over. We got to find the next gig. So there's like, you know, you have to have an appetite for that as well. There's like, you know, the trickle of fear. My management, you know, my manager's company is called Good, the Good Fear. It's like, that's, that's exactly what it is. It's like, there is that fear of what's coming next, am I going to be able to, but it's like a good fear because it motivates you, it fuels your creativity. Oftentimes, I'll tell my wife, it's like, okay, I wrote my way into this mess, I got to write my way out of it. So let's do it, you know, and something, the next thing comes and you know, I mean, look, the whole podcasting for us started because of the pandemic. We couldn't shoot anything. couldn't, we couldn't pitch anything. We couldn't go on meetings. couldn't, you know, even entertain the idea of like what a TV show would be or whatever. so it's like, what can we do? well we did brainchild and we had a giant list of emails because we, created a free curriculum that you could get just by giving us your email that went along with our brainchild show on Netflix and Why don't we get microphones and write? I can easily write up a kid's, know, sciency show, 15 minute long episodes. Me and, my partner does the trusting narrator voice. I, you know, I do voices, my wife, my daughter, everybody, you know, does voices. got microphones and we just started this thing. And, you know, I had no podcasting experience. I barely even listened to podcasts, but I brought what I knew from TV and storytelling and films and, know, thinking like, can I do that seems visual, even though there is no visuals? And it blew up, it blew up. The kids loved it, the families loved it. They started sharing it on Facebook and our numbers went up and up and up. And our show became one of the top kids educational shows in the world. And now it's four years in and I wouldn't dream of giving it up because it's great to do. And, you know, but yeah, that all came out of necessity because there was no shooting, there was no, you know, pitching. So we had to do something. And you figured out a way to channel your creativity into that. Yeah, that's great. So to close, I'm gonna ask you a question that could be big, could be small. It's up to you. In your life and your creative process and just living on this planet as a human being, what do you think is at the heart of you? What is your why? that is a great question. You know, we often say like our company, there's a lot of people just putting disposable or even worse, like just like negative stuff out there. And I'd love to just, my why is I'd love to just create something that it doesn't have to be the most positive thing, but you know, have a value of some sort. And, you know, if it's educational, great. mean, so many people worked on our shows and they were so disappointed when the show was over, when Netflix didn't pick up Brainchild for another season because they didn't need to. They could spend money and then every year a new crop of eight year olds discover our show. But they were so disappointed that they were going to have to go back to these crappy reality shows and game shows and like stupid stuff that's like just putting a lot of garbage into the world. And we always felt really good that we were putting good stuff into the world. even our true crime show, yeah, we try to bring some levity to the horror. you know, people will tell us like it's our it's their favorite true crime show because the others are so dark and they feel so bad afterwards. At least we temper it with with some laughs and some takeaway at the end. You know, I'm doing a new show about the Oscars where we look at the Oscars of the past and it's me and this comedy icon, Bruce Vellanche. and we go over the winners and losers and we just talk about tons of movies that might have been forgotten. And so now we're expanding people's movie vocabulary and their movie watching habits. just, my why is like, I just wanna put good stuff that will resonate in a positive way. I mean, I had people tell me that they watched Just Friends and it gave them the confidence to tell the girl that they were just friends with that they were actually in love with them. or the girl telling the guy even, you know, it's like we watched the movie together and we looked at each other. It's like, Hey, that's kind of like us. Maybe we should date. And then suddenly they're dating, you know? So, you know, that's, that's, that's what I want to do. I mean, I could probably have done more if I didn't care so much about putting out something, you know, a little smarter, a little, you know, with a little more, I don't know, just a little more value. But yeah, that's, that's, that's what drives me. That's wonderful. Thank you so much. The way I put that is I try to put out signal instead of noise, because there's a lot of noise in the world. And I think that's what you're trying to do, too. So thank you for that. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Well. Thanks for joining me and thanks to all of my listeners. Once again, this is Magic Creativity and Life. I've been talking with Adam Tex Davis, screenwriter, filmmaker, podcaster extraordinaire. And you can find out more about Adam and his work at AtomicEntertainment.com. And as always, you can find me at ThornCoyle.com. Thanks for joining us.