Boundaries Aren't Barriers

In this conversation, Emily and Joshua explore the nuanced world of boundaries, what they are, why they matter, and how to set them effectively in both personal and professional contexts. 

They discuss the impact of organizational culture, technology, and personal values on boundary-setting, offering practical insights and strategies to foster self-respect and healthier relationships.

key topics

• The difference between boundaries and barriers
• The impact of technology on boundaries
• Organizational culture and boundary ignoring
• The importance of self-awareness in boundary setting
• Strategies for effective boundary communication

#boundaries #selfdevelopment #selfgrowth #selfcare #boundarysetting #personalgrowth #personaldevelopment #executivecoaching #professionaldevelopment

Get In Touch

Thanks so much for spending this time with us. We’d love to hear what resonated, what challenged you, or what you’d like us to explore next.

You can connect with Joshua on LinkedIn here and with Emily here. You can also learn more about Emily's work at alocoaching.com.

Until next time, take care.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey team. Welcome to You Are Not Alone, the Work Edition. So, what we're hoping here with this is to give you a monthly conversation of a lot of the topics that you're going to experience in your work and sometimes even in your personal life. Why we've said that this is you are not alone is because so much of what we can do in the leadership space, the team space, we have those moments of like, am I going crazy? Is this just am I the only one experiencing this? And this is the opportunity to spend 30 minutes with us each month over new topics and just find out how not alone you are. So to kick off, let me let me talk about a real moment where setting where I needed to set boundaries and didn't, right? So I used to work for an organization that thrived on just give it a little bit extra, right? Especially from its executive and its managerial team, who was all very salary, and then you had, you know, your hourly team members. And they really thrived on and took advantage of those team members and leadership that were like, I can give a little bit more, because there never was an off-ramp for the people who said I could give a little bit more. And I would find myself, you know, we were already like the already expectation was 10 hour days. It was a 50-hour work week by expectation for salary team members. And I would come in at seven, and then it would be five o'clock, and it'd be like, all right, well, it's five o'clock. But the the hope would be once five hit, you would leave. But the but what the reality was when five would hit, and now you have to, now there's still some five o'clock stuff you gotta do, you know? Five o'clock stuff would bleed into to other areas, and would you fall into, and we're gonna hit on this a moment, but I want to go ahead and use the expression, it's the team player trap. It is that that trap of being a team player, and that organization especially was very much like you're not being really a team player, like leaving at five, like, do you not see the rest of us contributing? Like, yeah, but like I, you know, I'm trying to to recommit to like, you know, doing things with my family and and showing up the right way for them. And I feel in personal relationships, it is much easier to set boundaries. When you're talking about work relationships, it's much harder because there's real, there's financial impact that can come with setting a workplace boundary. You have, you know, you your culture is impacted by how comfortable people are by setting those boundaries. So I know in my personal life, I have a much easier time setting boundaries than I do in in the workplace.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

I think that's an interesting point you raised because I think it really depends on what your home life and your family life is like. Because if you have to draw a boundary with someone in your family, let's say, you know, in-laws can be challenging for people or even your own parents, your own siblings, that also can be really challenging. However, we have more exposure to those people and we have more history with those people, you know, and there's certain expectations when it comes to families versus the workspace and setting boundaries there. So I do think there's challenges in both.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Um Do you have you seen or experienced in your work that team player trap that I mentioned?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yes, absolutely. I think that's weaponized guilt if it's used incorrectly. If you have someone who's coming in and like there is this sort of we all help each other, and we, you know, if I have five minutes free and I realize that you could use some support and you want to foster that sort of support and be a team player in that sense when it's of your own volition, I think that is like, okay, sure, put that into practice. However, if it's something where it's sort of weaponized, like, well, you're not killing yourself for the sake of the company and the team, there's a difference there between those two.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Do you think that there is a certain implied badge of honor that comes with the wear and tear of overwork?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

I think in our culture in the US, largely there is a belief, and in many cultures, like organizational cultures, there is an expectation that exhaustion equals excellence. And when you actually get into like all of the topics we talk about, this industrial and organizational psychology, the well-being of employees, that they don't do better work, you know, when they're exhausted. They're gonna make mistakes, there's more risk of injury, there are all sorts of ramifications for that. And then, of course, you know, we all know back to buzzwords, burnout, one of our favorites, right? So uh yeah, there is very much this cultural belief, especially in the US culture, but and then it's more entrenched in certain organizations of, you know, work yourself to the bone to show that you add value, that you care, to prove your worth. But there are very real-world consequences that often aren't measured or followed up with to realize actually, when we think about the holistic health of our organization and our long-term success, this is not in alignment.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Why do you think that boundaries get ignored in an organizational structure?

SPEAKER_01 5:39

I think there are a couple things. First off, I think we have to talk about whether or not we're setting the boundaries because, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because we have different experiences. So, for context, how tall are you?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

I am six two. So I I have Greek, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yes. And there there is sort of a certain presence that comes with a six foot two body. I'm five foot three. We're about 12 inches apart, just about a foot difference. Uh, and I'm a woman, you're a man, you know, and there are different expectations. So when it comes to the organization you're in, and when it comes to the environment you're in, sometimes you may not feel comfortable setting boundaries. If you're one of like the label of if you're the only, you're the only woman, you're the only minority, you're the only, you know, whatever the only applies to, you may not feel like there's enough safety for you to speak up, or that if you do, you're gonna get some kind of label that, you know, oh, here she comes, the B word because she I don't know, are we cursing on this podcast? I think part of it is whether or not we're able to actually put those boundaries in pr place and express them in the first place. Because there was a phrase I came across a couple years ago, and I I use this all the time now, where unset expectations sow the seeds of resentment. So if we don't set the expectations with people, which are what boundaries are, then when they don't meet them, we become very frustrated. And so that's its own challenge. But then why do organizations ignore them? I think there's peer pressure from the organization. You know, if we all show up, we all work 10-hour days, we expect that of everyone, whether you're a single parent or not, you know, or you have extra uh additional circumstances or not. And then there will be other things that they kind of will value. There will be other things that are valued above what your boundaries and your values are. And so I think there's really a weighing in the balance of, well, you know, it's really nice that you'd prefer to work eight-hour days and start them at this point in time so you can go to car pickup line and get your kids after school. However, for the organization, you know, we're we have to make ends meet, we have to, whatever the goal is, and then they overshadow that and then downplay the importance of your boundaries. And then that becomes a question of whether or not there's alignment between what you need and the organization need ultimately.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So do you feel that part of our incredible technological advancements that I don't want to go backwards on has impacted us negatively in terms of how we handle our boundaries?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

I think it has shifted the expectations for how we operate. Um, and I think there is an expectation of always on, always available, unless that expectation is reset with people. For example, in my past, when I've worked in organizations, we get emails, meeting invites, Slack notifications, or teams, whatever you're using. And it can be incessant and nonstop. And every time it pulls you away from work, you're we don't effectively multitask well in our brains. We task switch. And so that can lose you three to four minutes of productivity when you switch back and forth between different things. So that's also where a boundary can come in place. One, for the organization to realize this is actually not great to be interrupting people all the time because they can't do the meaningful work and get into a flow state, stay there and knock things out. But also on the personal side of setting your own boundary, where I got to the point where, and I still do this today, I don't check my phone every second. I don't keep the sound and the notifications on. And I still use Slack and I still use Outlook and Gmail and all these other platforms, sometimes both, depending on the kind of work I'm doing. And so I make a point that the boundary I place is yes, I'm available during these hours and I will check in at the times I have designated to do that. So I'm gonna check the emails and the notifications in the morning, determine what's important. And then again, you know, as we get to late morning to make sure nothing's cropped up, and then again after lunch, and then before I clock out. So four touch points throughout the day, but that is dedicated time for me to knock those things out. And then after work, I have to do the intentional work to screen whether or not something is truly a priority or a fire, if you will, or if it's just because I I've worked with people where they might be the owner of the company, they might be the boss, and they just because they work that way or they have kids or whatever their schedule is, they're sending off things Saturday morning, Sunday morning, things like that. Okay, great. Well, that works for you. And then we work through and talk about, I acknowledge that I you you've sent that and I've seen it. And if it's a priority that we have predetermined what a priority is, we'll talk about how we're gonna handle that. But if it's not, then trust me, as the adult, as the mature individual, that I will handle it in due time with the intention that it requires.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Do you when I listening to that? Oh, you know what I what really kind of stood out to me was I was just kind of thinking about it in my own scenarios. And I was like, Joshua, do you set boundaries with yourself? And so like I wonder, you know, looking at that from a personal standpoint, what does it look like setting boundaries with yourself? Right to say, hey, you know, you're actually probably the cause of some of your stress, you know, looking internally.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

This is a very delicate subject, and I want to be very intentional with the words that I choose because we do work in environments that at times are not healthy. Sometimes it's a culture where it's never healthy. Sometimes someone flares up and, you know, goes flies off the handle, and that's not healthy. But I find with a lot of the individuals I coach, and it has been my own personal experience too, that I looked back on a period of time, I'd reached a point and I was frustrated and I was annoyed, and everyone was doing these things to me and asking so much of me, but I was not setting boundaries for what I actually needed, which I think is a big transition in people's development from I'm not just here to earn all the accolades and do the best work. I can do that and set boundaries in place that protect my well-being, my mental energy, and are a sign of self-respect.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

So, what you just hit on is I think a lot of people get into this trap of either or. Either I am very successful at work, you know, and I am giving up my family life, or I'm spending more time with my family and doing the things that like doing my my 5 p.m. to to 8 a.m., you know, version of myself, but I'm gonna be less successful at work, right? There, I'm not gonna be able to participate at that level. And I think people have this either-or mentality, and you just hit on it, and you can have both. I think that we get into this this trap, I'll even dare say almost a borderline shame cycle uh that can happen where you're like, oh man, I don't, I don't feel like I'm given enough, you know?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah. I don't disagree on any of that. And a couple other things came up for me when you were speaking around my values with my motivations and my priorities, because I think that they all kind of interconnect around I may have the value of being a hard worker and like industrious in that sense, but then I also may have some motivations. And it's important for me to understand what role are those motivations playing. And that's where awareness of yourself comes in and how you're operating. Because let's say that if you are a people pleaser and you are industrious, then there's a certain point where that combination can become too concentrated for you. So I think when you were saying there's a flex as far as there will be times where I need to spend a little more time or a little less time on something, I also think there's a component of that where there are edges. When we're aware that we're reaching our edges, that is also an opportunity for us to check in and say, is this a time for me to reevaluate this boundary or reset this boundary? Because if I am industrious and a people pleaser, am I going too far to where it's costing me rather than I'm benefiting from man?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

You just hit on something that that struck me and it and it popped up, the question popped into my head is are boundaries permanent? And the answer is no. The ICE will sometimes have to include or introduce new boundaries based on something that's going on. And then I might find in a different season I can I can pull back some of those boundaries. You're just in a different place, right? And I I think sometimes people can get into, or let me just say this. I know that I have, and I don't think, you know, literally the name of the podcast is you're not alone. So I know that if I have, other people have as well. So I have gotten into I have sometimes gone into a place where I like I set a boundary and it might seem like, well, this is this is who I am forever now. You know, like this, this is a forever boundary. It's not always true. You'll be in a different place in your life, and you're like, well, let's peel back on that. It it looks different now, you know. I think of retirement, right? Retirement, people's boundaries change dramatically. Now you just have different focuses in life. As a student, your boundaries change dramatically. Especially as a student who's also working, you know, have to protect certain things. So I think as we go through life, those boundaries change. I think as you evolve as a person, the boundaries evolve as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Absolutely. Yeah. They aren't necessarily carved in stone. Sometimes you do need to set a boundary that, you know, you will not allow people to cross. And that's your own personal decision to set that. But there are also, like you said, times where maybe this is the boundary I need for this season of my life and where my skills are and where, you know, where I'm working or dynamics in my my personal life. But then they can be revisited, they can be re-evaluated, they can be adjusted. And you can reset them with people. You know, in the past, I needed this. However, I'm feeling more comfortable in that area. And I would like to say that going forward, I now need this, and that's perfectly valid.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

As a as a woman in the workplace, you know, having been in the workplace and as a woman who's experiencing, you know, all kinds of workplace cultures now, do you find that those boundaries are empowering? But have you also, in the same token, found that when you try to set boundaries, you have to be a lot more careful as just to use the expression maybe like a marginalized group or a minority?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

What a killer question. I do think boundaries are very empowering when they are leveraged effectively. Um, and when they when you set a boundary and someone, and let's just say when you set an effective boundary that, you know, we're not just doing it because I just don't want to take meetings on Tuesdays, or I don't, you know, I don't like to talk to them, so I just don't talk to them. It's like, okay, but like, is that solving the problem? Versus boundaries are for me an act of self-respect. So when I set a boundary as an act of self-respect and self-care, and even when, because you don't just set a boundary and then magically everything's better, you set a boundary, you reinforce it. Um, when I do that, I feel very empowered because I am not looking to someone else to take care of me. I am showing myself that I can show up for myself and I can take care of my needs. And if my boundaries are not respected, there are options available that I can take that are respectful to me. When, so as a coach, I work with lots of different organizations, which I love. And there are all sorts of different people that you interface, all sorts of different cultures that you come across. And I've been very fortunate that to this point I have not come across too many that push back on the boundaries. I do have to be mindful of I have certain boundaries that are important to me. And at the same time, there are needs within the organizations that I work with. And so, yes, maybe my ideal boundary would be here, but if they have a certain need and I'm comfortable with it, I might shift it a little bit to meet them and compromise so that it can be mutually beneficial for everyone. But I have been fortunate not to be in my coaching space in environments like that. In the past, I have been in environments where you set a boundary and it's not honored. And then that as a woman can be very challenging. I've shared with many people that in the past I worked in very male-dominated spaces. I'm a very petite woman and I was very young. And I've had male coworkers who wanted to hug me, kiss the top of my head, you know, grab at me. And I tell them, look, I'm not a hugger. I really don't prefer to do that in the workspace unless I know you very personally. I prefer if we, you know, you didn't do that. And then it became like a joke for them. That now it's like a game of, oh, I'm gonna push your buttons and tease you a little bit. And it's like, no, I'm gonna reinforce this, reinforce this. And then there's a certain point of do we need to escalate this?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

You hit on something there where I think to a less emotionally mature person, boundaries do seem like a game. They when you set a boundary, people seem to somehow think in their mind, for whatever reason, like challenge accepted. And it's like, no, this is not a challenge. Like this is I am not just waiting for some, I'm not waiting for the right person to come along and say the right thing and suddenly this boundary is magically gone, you know? Like I haven't been waiting from Tony and accounting to give me a hug and change my entire perception on hugs.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

You know, like this this exists for a reason.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Do you feel that being more successful by repeating those boundaries has has helped you keep those boundaries set? Because I think what happens is a lot of people will set a boundary, but they'll set it in sand, right? Like this this is my boundary, and then asterisk, you know, and then something will happen and they'll be like, yeah, let me go ahead and take care of that, instead of reinforcing that boundary.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

I think at the end of the day, we train people how to treat us through our interactions. And so if that boundary is not held, what did they learn? Because, for example, if you have a kid who is crying and screaming because they want a candy bar and you say no, and then, you know, repeatedly, they're gonna cry themselves out and they're gonna move on and they'll go find something else. But if you give the kid the candy bar and then two days later the kid wants another candy bar, they're gonna cry and scream, it's reinforcing the negative behavior. That is a very challenging thing for us to reconcile in a workplace because we often don't want to ruffle feathers, we don't want to create issues, we don't want like a negative limelight on us or our interactions. However, it's important to think when setting boundaries, not about just the here and now, but also what does this do for the future? What is the precedent that I am setting?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Anytime that I have been successful with boundary setting, it's exactly why you're saying it is because I have held the lot, literally almost. We we had this discussion. I don't feel comfortable that it has repeated itself. I just kind of want to remind you that I this is kind of where I'm at. This is my line in the sand, right? I hold to this and I would appreciate it if just moving forward we can we continue to both respect this. You know, not just me respecting it and not just you respecting it. We both have to respect the boundary that we have set. You know, I I also think the language around our boundaries are very important. You know, I we will sometimes set a boundary, but we'll half apologize in the middle of the boundary setting and already undercut what we're trying to do, you know, or or we'll say, hey, I don't like to be contacted after 7 p.m. But I mean, if something important happens, you know, please let me know. And then the word important is nebulous, because what's important to me is not always important to you. And what is very important to you, I might be like, well, we can do this in the morning. And for those listening and those, you know, those that are on the journey with this, you know, I some of the things that have worked for me the most when I'm setting these boundaries, the the one that I love the most is when I I will always engage with, you know what, here's how I work best. You know, this is this is this is the element in which I do my best work. And I know what we're both wanting is my best work. So this is, you know, this is how I do my best work. You know, I I use this a lot is to to show up fully. I need, you know, da-da-da. Like I, you know, these are the things that I need if I'm gonna be able to show up fully for you, right? For some people, it is I need to make sure that I have my kids taken care of and that I know that they're squared away. And like once I get in, I am a hundred percent locked in, but I need this additional time in the morning. Doesn't affect the output that you're gonna get from me, but I do need this, you know, and this is my time with my kids. Honestly, there's some some honesty and vulnerability has helped me. I had a scenario where I had to push back on something, and it was very, very tame, you know, it wasn't a wasn't a crisis scenario, but like I I we were getting our plates very full. And we were in a season of just because of the scenario, there were some things that we had to keep adding to our plates, and that's very real in the workplace, and we can't ignore that. But we had reached kind of that threshold of diminishing returns, you know, and I had been asked, hey, can you take care of this? And I was just like, I need to be very honest with you. My I didn't use the word bandwidth, I actually used the word elasticity. Like my elasticity here is at its limit. Like I am not at a place where this rubber band can stretch anymore because it'll break. And then everything that this rubber band is holding is going to fall. So I actually can't take this on right now. But if it's not so important that this is a 48-hour or this can't wait till next week, I can handle it. But you but right now you've got to let me finish this and take care of some of this other stuff before I jump into that. So, in your experience, Emily, what are some ways that you have successfully set boundaries or used language or discourse that has allowed you to be more successful without putting the person on edge that you're trying to set that boundary?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I think one thing that you were touching on too is around the alignment, where if you're working with someone in a healthy space, ideally you both have aligned motivations. So, you know, you want us to get all this work done and you want us to um complete it very well. I also want that. And at the same time, I don't have the bandwidth to do that now. So then we start looking at sometimes those boundaries aren't even like they serve me for ages. Sometimes they serve me for this moment. So the question is, what else can we do? Can we move this to next week? Or if this is a priority, can you help me explore what needs to come off my plate now to make room for it? So I think the framing of what we're trying to accomplish is very important because, like you said, if you say, look, I'm gonna set a boundary with you, sometimes that can be a little like defensiveness triggering for people. And then also it's not necessarily inviting them in. That can be a bit of a you have hit the wall, you know, stop, stop right there. This felt like a spice. So so then the question becomes, you know, hey, and I've had to do this multiple times in the past. And so being mindful of what's building up to that and building the awareness of what you actually need and what needs to be discussed before you reach that point is also really helpful because it frees you up from Joshua, I'm gonna tell you for the last time, I'm about to lose my mind because, you know, and you're just like unloading instead of, you know, hey, I'm looking at everything we have on the plan for the next month. And I I do have some reservations because when I look at it, I see all of this, but I also know we have to meet this deadline. I at this time can't take on more. There's your boundary right there. I never said boundary. I just I can't take any more at this point in time. And I realize that some of these projects may not meet their deadlines accordingly. Can we like what can we do to change this?

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Right. I think the there is a distinction between ultimatum and limit.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

And once we hit a wall ultimatum, that's the barrier, right? That is saying once now now, once this is crossed, like we've crossed a barrier, and that's now we have to set there's separation implied in that, right? Where cause it can sound like if you keep doing this, Emily, I'm done. Like I I I have like I will leak. Like this, this is over if you keep doing this. And that's a pure ultimatum. And typically, once we're at that stage, it's too to your point what you were saying, we have so much stuff has been allowed, and we didn't set expectations early that we have been quiet and quiet and quiet and quiet. Now this has happened, and it's just like, is this I'm done? Like, it's like, well, why I wish we'd had a conversation sooner, but at the same time, I get very nervous around this concept of victim blaming, where it's like, well, now I'm blaming I'm angry at you for just saying that you're done and not giving, you know, the opportun like the opportunity, you know. I one of the expressions that keep coming into my head since we've had some of these conversations and something I've had to sit with is do I feel safe enough to be safe? And that's because you have to answer the first one to be able to actually come to terms with, am I actually even safe? You know? And a lot of times when the person gets to that, if you keep doing this, I'm done stage, it's because they never felt safe enough to set those initial limits, right? We we couldn't get to we we skipped limit because we didn't feel safe. And now we're at an ultimatum because it's become so much on us. We're at a make or break stage. And if I'm being super honest, once we get to the place where we have to use the words, if this keeps happening, I'm done. I might argue we're already done.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Ju, you made a really good point that I wanted to circle back on is we have been talking about the need to set boundaries ourselves. However, there is another component to this equation that we have to explore, which is when someone sets a boundary, how do you handle it as the person who is on the other side of the boundary? Because if you are a leader and you're like glossing over that, that's not showing respect to them. And so if you don't show respect to them, that comes back to your point of is this a safe environment for me to even do this? Because you may be training them, don't even try to set those boundaries here, nothing's gonna come of it. So they give up. Then it leads to that mounting frustration where they start looking for the exit signs.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

There is when I, there's an emotional, I'm gonna take away from the leader aspect from a moment and take on a personal aspect. When I hear that someone says, I'm trying to set a boundary with you. I it is easy to imply or for me to infer imply two different things of what you're saying. And I, because if Emily, you were to set a boundary with me, I might think in my head, I don't want to work with you, or I think you're too much.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Add a third to that too, because some people also interpret it as what have I done wrong.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah, exactly. You know what? Like, oh no, I'm I must have like I've offended them and I've hurt them. And like now they're feeling like they need to protect themselves from me.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

And all of that boundaries have like, they're not about you as the receiver of hearing the boundary. They're about the person and what that person needs. So shifting out of that headspace of, you know, you're too much, or I don't want to work with you if it's a reasonable boundary, you know, not somebody just being exceptionally difficult. Um, my like question for myself, if I were reacting that way, would be to ask myself, you know, what's coming up for me? What's what's core kind of making me feel that way? And am I feeling insecure about some part of myself in this exchange?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

You you nailed it when you said the boundaries aren't about the person, you know, receiving the boundary, right? If I if I set a boundary with you, Emily, there's almost a 99.9% chance it's because this has happened before.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

And boundaries are, in my opinion, trauma response, right? It in a lot of ways. Because I think it takes a a very disciplined person to be able to set boundaries before they've ever been a scenario where they didn't set boundaries. You you said it well when you were like, why why am I taking it this way? Like, what is what does it say about me? What is what is my moment of introspection that when someone sets a boundary, I feel this way, you know? And I think a lot of times we have we have a very difficult time looking in the mirror. I think most people, you know, I don't want to say most people, but a lot of people will, a lot and most are the same, but I'm gonna carry this. They all something will happen and the instinct is to look out the window and not in a mirror. Right? Let me let me let me put this back on you. Let me look at you, you know, instead of being able to take that moment and reflect and go, what does this say about me? You know? And more often than not, it's saying absolutely nothing about you. Like again, this boundary was not for you, it was for the person setting the boundary, you know, and it's harder for us to respect someone's boundaries when we think that that boundary was meant to hurt us. Do you think by not setting boundaries, we're actually creating those barriers? And what I mean by that is after a certain period of time, you have what I consider to be this accumulation of resentment. And a lot of that resentment comes just because we have quietly accepted all of this, all of this, all of this, and never put up a boundary early.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

There is, at the very least, you know, you put the boundary out there, you implement it, you hold your line, you reinforce it, you revisit it when needed. And if someone is still not respecting that, they are telling you something about how they're gonna continue to work with you going forward. So I think it was Maya Angela who said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Believe them. Yeah, that they they are not lying to you.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

You know, in that regard. You know, we we did talk a little bit about already some phrases that like have worked, you know, at least for me. What could we give our listeners? What could we give what could we give our friends that are listening to us? You know, what is some things that we can walk away from? What do strong limits even look like? You know, what do what do those like if we're talking about unset limits, you know, if we're talking about not allowing that resentment to be bred, right? Then what can we provide people that can ensure that that doesn't happen?

SPEAKER_01 33:54

I think that's a very that's a very powerful question and a very personal question that has to be implemented on an individual level because what I may consider as a healthy boundary may be very different from you when we're talking about working outside of work hours. So I think the first thing to do there is to ask yourself where are these pain points where I feel like I am making unnecessary sacrifices and they're not benefiting me? And what would an ideal or improved situation look like? And that's gonna be the first step to figuring out where are those pain points and ideally what would it look like if it were improved. And then the next question is what do I need to do in order to achieve that? So do I need to set a boundary or things are things too far gone that you know I need some additional support or resources? But I think that's sort of building the awareness of where to start if you are not already at that place knowing where to go. And I forgot my second point. I hope it wasn't too good.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Well, the first point was amazing, so we'll run with that.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Emily, what has happened in the past when you have set a limit and it doesn't go well? There is, as as we've talked and as I've explored over the years, there are a lot of problems with the organizational structure and workplace cultures by and large. They are not responsible for every bad thing that's ever happened to you. And I think it is important to have that moment where you go, is this, because you said it, is this boundary necessary? And is this repetition of the boundary being broken? First, I need to ask the question, am I being disrespected or did I put up a boundary that was unreasonable for the time? And that's possible to do. You are not a hundred percent automatically correct when you set a boundary.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

The question is, you know, what is the boundary trying to achieve? Why is that valuable? Is that adding value? Because I don't want to say, you know, you set a boundary, someone disrespects it. Oh, I need to change my boundary. Not necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

No.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

But if it's a boundary of, I don't know, you're expected to work five days a week, Monday through Friday, and you just decide I just don't clock in on Fridays because I need a three-day weekend. Okay, what is that serving? How is that, you know, playing out for all of the parties involved? Is that realistic? You know, there are things to consider in that versus I set a boundary that I'm not available for work after 5 p.m., which is in alignment with the organization's expectations because I'm a single mom, I have to help three kids with homework and bathtime and dinner. And uh this is the only time I have for them, and I have to show up for them just like I have to show up for work.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Do you think it's important to give a context behind a boundary?

SPEAKER_01 36:50

You don't always have to. I think that if you have a relationship with someone and there is an understanding, um, and there are certain things where bound boundaries don't need an explanation. You know, if I come to work and I say, I don't want you to hug me to my coworkers, I don't need to offer an additional explanation. But if I maybe have, I don't know, I'm trying to pull something on the fly. It's a great point too that like if someone is setting a boundary with you and you don't understand why, or you do need context, you can ask in a respectful way. Because maybe it's that they're having to share elder care, you know, with a sibling who can handle it the other four days of the week, but they can't do Fridays. Okay, well then are like you said, are there other alternatives? You know, what's in our tool belt? Can we move to like a 1040 schedule or, you know, what do we do?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

No, 100%. Like I said, it a lot of times if if I was to ask you, you know, and I've asked this question before when when boundaries have been set with me as a leader, is hey, I want to respect that. Would you help me better understand it so that I can continue to show up the right way for you and see if there's other ways that we can that we can help you that may not be this specific way. Because if I'm being honest with you, this specific need that you have is not going to 100% align as the way it's being described right now with what we need.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

But I don't want to, yeah. Go ahead. Well, go ahead. But I don't want to just throw the baby out with the bathwater, right? I don't want to just say you're not the right fit because of a because of this thing. That's unfair to you. So help me better understand. And again, someone qu someone questioning the boundary is not always challenging the boundary. Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Yeah. And I think that really depends on um, exactly like you said, how you engage with it, because clarification is important. If, for example, um I don't know, let's say you have a bunch of friends and you've decided that you're gonna stop drinking. That's what you need to do for yourself. But all your friends drink and they have a history of, come on, just another, you know, one more. If you tell if you say, hey guys, I'm gonna stop drinking, um, you know, I've just decided that's what's best for me and my health at this point of time. And I would appreciate if you respect that and try, you know, don't try and push alcohol on me, then that context might be helpful. And if someone is like, wait, what's going on? Like, were we too aggressive? Or like, can you help me understand? You're like, no, I just, I just want to reevaluate my lifestyle or, you know, whatever your motivation is, you can share more, but you don't, you don't have to either.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

What is something that you, you know, closing up, what is something that you want our friends to understand about boundaries, about barriers, you know, as we close?

SPEAKER_01 39:46

I think for me, it's that boundaries are at the end of the day an act of self-respect. So I think a lot of times they kind of can carry a negative connotation with them or a fear of setting them, depending on the environment and how you operate internally. However, they are there to serve you. And I think it's also important that as your needs develop and change your boundaries, you can develop and change those two. You don't have to set them in stone forever. They are adaptable. They're there to serve you. So when you've outgrown one or one becomes too rigid, it's okay to adapt it to what you need now.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

That's perfect and well said. I think for me, the people, myself, like those who have the deep, the best relationships that I have, the deepest, most trusted relationships that I have and that I've been able to develop and encourage over times, it's not the ones that I just gave everything to everyone, right? When my most shallow relationships have been when I was at my highest people placing. And what I would want people to know, it's like your best relationships come when you're honest about what you have to offer, but being able to give fully within those terms.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yeah. To that point, you know, what came to mind for me is that boundaries, they don't create problems. They expose 100%. And so if you set a boundary and you realize suddenly, you know, someone's acting out or you're receiving some sort of behavior, that behavior is already existing. And when someone doesn't, when when someone meets a boundary and they don't like how it makes them feel about themselves or, you know, their interactions with you, that boundary is working in the purpose of self-respect for yourself. So I think that's a really big thing is that people are afraid that boundaries are going to introduce challenges. Boundaries actually expose the challenges that are already there.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Absolutely. It is a magnifying glass.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Right. What you are feeling right now as you're listening to this is very much something that everyone is experiencing. Like I said, this is this is not a new thing, and you're the first one to feel it, right? So, like I said, this do not feel like you are trapped in something that you're the only one, right? This might feel very lonely, but I promise you, this this moment of boundaries and and having to learn how to use that muscle, that is very much a the part of the human like element.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for spending this time with us together as we explored this topic. If you would like to connect with us, you can find our LinkedIn contact information in the podcast episode notes. We would love to hear from you. Let us know if there's something in particular that resonated with you from this episode or if there are particular topics that you would like us to cover in the future. Finally, if you found this information valuable, please go ahead and give us a follow. And if you know anyone else who you think would benefit from this information, please share the link with them. Thank you again and take care.