Navigating Career Transitions

This episode explores the nuances of career transitions, addressing imposter syndrome, effective self-promotion, and strategic networking. Hosts Joshua and Emily share personal insights, practical tips, and encouragement for navigating career changes with confidence.

key topics

• Impacts of imposter syndrome on career change
• Effective self-promotion techniques
• Networking strategies for job seekers
• Recognizing when it's time to transition
• The role of values and identity in career decisions

keywords

career transition, job search, imposter syndrome, self-promotion, networking, career change advice, professional growth, career development, job search strategies, personal branding, career coaching

Thanks so much for spending this time with us. We’d love to hear what resonated, what challenged you, or what you’d like us to explore next.

You can connect with Joshua on LinkedIn here and with Emily here. You can also learn more about Emily's work at alocoaching.com.

Until next time, take care.

Get In Touch

Thanks so much for spending this time with us. We’d love to hear what resonated, what challenged you, or what you’d like us to explore next.

You can connect with Joshua on LinkedIn here and with Emily here. You can also learn more about Emily's work at alocoaching.com.

Until next time, take care.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey team, welcome to You Are Not Alone, the Work Edition. So, what we're hoping here with this is to give you a monthly conversation of a lot of the topics that you're going to experience in your work and sometimes even in your personal life. Why we've said that this is you are not alone is because so much of what we can do in the leadership space, the team space, we have those moments of like, am I going crazy? Is this just am I the only one experiencing this? And this is the opportunity to spend 30 minutes with us each month over new topics and just find out how not alone you are.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

We're here to talk about uh career transitions.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

We are. We are, and I think that's something you and I both have done a little bit of.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

A bit, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

So I know from my career transitions, I went from like I've gone from education and and teaching to to like a level of like retail to ministry to to human resources. And it has, I can see a through line, right? There's there's something that's been consistent in all of those, but they've definitely been borderline whiplashy in certain expectations. What I found easiest for me with my career transitions is making sure that like, hmm, I don't want to sound like a slide deck, but making sure like my mission, vision, and values like stayed consistent throughout. So, like what it's what were the things that I really cared about? And that was those servant leadership. And I don't think you can teach well without a heart for servant leadership. Like you can't, you can't walk in the classroom and be like, all right, you little peasants, like like I'm in charge and we're and we're gonna pour like some some sweet info. Like, you know, there's you have to have a desire to see the kids grow and develop. And you know, moving into retail, what I did in retail was a lot of training, you know, a lot of like, hey, like I'm going to help young managers learn how to be great managers and young, not necessarily in age, but young professional manager. Like, you know. They were, you know, then moving into ministry. Ministry is when done correctly, purely holy, 100% servant leadership, right? Like, how can you, how can you grow and shepherd and lead a congregation and and have a strong ministry? And then you go into, you know, I went into HR and human resources again, when it's done correctly, is servant leadership, right? Like, how can I serve a corporation? How can I serve the the team members? How can I be that liaison between the two to make sure both are healthy? So, like that, that allowed me that through line in those. But some of the things that I want to talk about with you today that I found during my preparation, and I think maybe, and I know you have some prep too, so I'm sure you've got some some great questions for me as well. But no, there's some things that I I kind of wanted to bounce off of you because here's where I really struggled with career transitions, and that was imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome really, really reared its ugly head a lot during these career transitions. I found it most in ministry. Like I was just like, wow, I I don't think I belong here, you know? And then moving into to human resources, the beginning of my HR career, there was a lot of impostor syndrome because I found my way into HR not by having a not by having an education in human resources, but just by by being able to pivot in through there through like strong leadership tendencies, through long like strong training principles, you know, having very clear values and how it's how a process should look. You know, like I was able to walk into it and do it because I historically did all of those things well, but there was nothing really on paper that said, Joshua is this incredible HR professional and he's gonna do a pretty good job at this. You know, and then you walk into with other HR professionals and you're at your first like work group or workshop with a bunch of HR professionals, and they're like, well, I've got like 27,000 Sherm credentials, can I recite all of the compliance policies of like East Carolina's very specific like third district and how their labor laws interact? And I'm just like, hmm? Like I guess, yeah. But what and I'm just like, but a handbook? Like, you know, like so like you you you it's hard to give yourself grace like when you're already propelled, you know, because of experience into a into a higher level position, and then you almost feel like you're working backwards, right? So imposter syndrome definitely was something, and then there's some like and something else I want to talk about today um is toxic positivity lies we tell ourselves during career transitions. Because there was a couple of key phrases that I told myself and that I hear people say when they're going through a career transition that I think feel good in the moment, but like when you start to unpack them, there might be some underlying, I need to tell myself this, unless this is the truth.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Okay. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Hey, listen, I'm I'm I'm nothing if not controversial. So I know for me when I transitioned, I going from teaching to the next phase, and I my heart actually like I see a lot of there's almost like groups of like former teachers. Like I feel like I know more former teachers than I do teachers, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Like statistically, that might be accurate.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah. So and I I remember why I left. And there were two main reasons why I left it. One was because I I poured a lot into becoming an educator and was not, let's just go ahead and address the elephant in the room. Teachers don't get paid enough. Like that's that's that's the reality of it, you know. And I had just spent four years making my own way through college, right? So, you know, and I knew at that point I was just like, I'm not getting ahead financially, right? I'm only, I'm probably even if I'm if I'm breaking even, then worst case scenario, I'm still unhappy and breaking even, right? So I can't be pouring this much into it to be this unhappy. So I need to make a transition. And thankfully I had a friend that was in the retail space pretty high up. And he was just like, hey, like I can get you a really good, good role. Let's move you over here if you're interested, you know, if you're willing to make a career change. And I was like, I can go from teaching to retail and almost double my salary, you know, as a as a uh retail leader, an area retail leader, I can almost double my salary and like have a little more control over my free time. So I think one of the re things that drive career shifts, for me, what drive the initial career shift is I spent way too much being not happy. I need to pivot.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

I think that is the underlying, like if we had to underline what causes career transitions, it's that there's no longer like needs are not being met. Whether it's, you know, I was driven, I was uh called to this, I'm not feeling fulfilled by this anymore, or yeah, I'm making and I know people who are on the flip side who make killer money, but they have no time, they're not passionate about the work. It's just not worth it to them anymore. And so yeah, it's like I'm just not happy. I'm not happy, I'm not fulfilled, I'm burning out. And then, you know, it's either you give in to that and everything that comes with that, or am I going to decide now's the time to make a change? And is that change a career pivot? I think that when we invest so much in becoming something, whether that's a teacher, a lawyer, a doctor, we set our sights on it, we work towards it, we achieve it. And then when we don't find that that is providing what we thought it would, it can be very difficult because one, you've already invested so much time, energy, and effort in becoming that thing, developing those skills. But then two, what does it say about me if I walk away from this? And we have to grapple with that. And it's interesting, you said, I always knew what I wanted to be when I was young, since I was young. I'm on the complete polar opposite end of that. I could not stand anytime you'd get the question, what do you want to be when you grow up? I don't know. I'm seven. I don't know. My mom was a nurse. I don't want to do that, but I have no other idea of what jobs exist out there. And then as I got older and matured a little bit more, I realized that I still, I still didn't know. I changed my major in college six times. Six. Somehow I got out of there and graduated. But six times I changed my major because I I didn't know what I wanted to do. I ended up following in my big sister's footprint footprint steps, where I um went into marketing. And I didn't even really know when I graduated what marketing was and what a marketer did. Then I got into that space and it I was able to find enjoyment in it. If you grow up and you know you want to be an astronaut, a doctor, a fireman, do it. That's what you want to do. But that was not how I'm wired. And the article said it kind of called into question: is it more important to be something or to enjoy the work that you do? So to me, that was beneficial because I didn't have to tie my identity to the role I held. And that allowed me the flexibility to think about, huh, I've reached this level of leadership. You know, most people would think this is great and they'd be happy and they just like, you know, ride this as long as they can. But for me, I was sitting there going, yeah, no, this is no longer for me. I need to make a pivot. And for me, it's not that I need to be a director, VP, CEO, whatever title. It was that I need to be able to do the work that I find fulfilling for myself.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

I didn't know how you were going to end that sentence when it says, find like, you know, don't just be something. And in my head, I was prepared for you to say, you know, be someone, you know. And at the end, it kind of culminated to that. Cause I think having your knowing who you are is so important during these career transitions.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Yes. I would agree because you can still be a phenomenal person and decide I no longer want to be a lawyer. I'm very passionate about this subject that I work in, but I no longer want to do that work. Or I'm no longer passionate about this. It's okay to work in a space for a period of time and close that book and start another one.

unknown 11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

And you can take that with you when you're focused on who you are rather than what you get from a title or a role, which again, that's also okay to get, you know, if you're a doctor and you feel such fulfillment because you're able to help people heal. That's beautiful. And if at a certain point you reach the the desire to pivot because you want to help people heal in a different way, that's also okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

I have been on the hiring side for a long time. And I have seen it in action and I've tried to actively work against it, but I've seen it in action. Do you believe or agree that there's a stigma behind career transition, a negative stigma?

SPEAKER_02 11:58

I think it exists situationally. I think it really depends on who, like where you're working and what the hiring criteria are. Because I have seen people who will look at a resume. I worked in recruitment marketing for 10 years. So similar space where uh you see a lot of jobs, you see a lot of resumes. And um it depends on what's desired on the other side of things. Because I think if you just want everything, you know, it's like the the job description is a checklist and you want to check everything off of that, that's what you're looking for that can that can cause you not to see the opportunity in what people who may have had less traditional career paths can bring to the table. And I found it in my own experience working with people where they started as a flight attendant and then they moved into program management, and then they moved into some other aspect. But because they have such a diverse background, they bring such a great perspective and so many additional skills that you can't get just from that checklist.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

100%. And I do agree, and thank you for answering that. They said I I have seen it where this question comes up a lot and it and it's framed this way. So what's made you decide to to make the jump, right? What what did you it almost feels like the way certain people worded is like a trap question. What did you not like about your your previous career? And when you answer a negative question, it almost it almost feels like all the answers are framed negatively as well. So you almost have to like a a when you're asked that question, you have to kind of pivot it in your head to okay, they're asking me what I didn't like. What I need to do is actually say what I what it is that I'm wanting, right? Because I'm gonna go down this checklist of all the things I didn't like and they're gonna be like, well, you're gonna experience all this stuff here. Like jobs are jobs.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yeah, I think that's a bit of what you're talking about to me, is when interviewing, how to position yourself through the transition. Because of course, there is no perfect workplace. If there was, people would be clamoring to get in the board. Every workplace is gonna have its challenges. However, when someone asks you that question, like what's motivating this change, or what has you leaving this industry for this industry? There is also an opportunity to say, I'm really passionate about this. Like maybe you're shifting from a corporate space to um a healthcare space. Why are you making, you know, what's motivating you to do that? Well, I'm so driven to provide care and impact for people versus harping on the, well, I'm really tired of trying to make stockholders happy and cut and be efficient as possible. And it's yeah, like there's a way that if a question is asked, it can feel like a negative. And at the same time, as an interviewer, you I for me, it's very important to view interviews as a two-way street because you're being interviewed, but you're also interviewing this company. And so if there's a question you feel like maybe they're fishing for the negatives, you still have the power to answer in the positive. And I that is very challenging for people. One, because if you're reaching the point where you're ready to leave and transition into something else, and you've reached the point that you're reaching burnout or fully burnt out, that is very difficult to think critically and positively about why am I making this change? What do I want, versus just, I can't continue to do this anymore. It's killing me.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

And so that's also where um working with someone externally, hiring someone to help you explore, talk through your experiences and help come up with that narrative is incredibly, incredibly helpful. Because the other thing too is I see this all the time. I've helped several friends, I've helped several clients when they're transitioning in their careers, where they just say something along the lines of, I don't know. I just do my job and I try to do it well. And you just think that what you're doing is normal, but there's so much that you bring to the table that is incredible. And working with someone else who can help soundboard with you and hear that and help you package that is a great way when you don't have the mental, emotional, or energy capacity to do it on your own.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

I do think that external source, one of the things that I I had written in my my pre-notes was I think it's important when you're going through that career career transition to find that one honest person. Like find that that one person that's not in the think tank with you. That is just like, hey, let's actually talk through this. Let's let's work through that. And I'm gonna tell you some things that are gonna hurt, and I'm gonna tell you some things that are really encouraging and let's let's kind of distill it down. One of the things that I, you know, we talked about I I mentioned briefly about what I would call like toxic positivity reaffirming statements, right? And I'm gonna I'm gonna give one that I used to talk tell myself a lot, and then I want to talk through it really quick. And the the first one that I usually will tell myself is I just knew it was time, Emily. I just, I just knew it was time for for me to move on. Truth is, I don't think I ever really knew it was just time. Like I think that there had been a series of, I don't want to use the word microaggressions because it's used in other ways, but like there was this series of like small frustrations, betrayals, moments of like frustration that kind of like built up over time. And where I where I don't think that I was in this place where it was like, man, this is this is the time to go. It was more of just like, am I at a tipping point? Like, how much more hurt can I take? You know? And a lot of that hurt was quiet. Like I I remember moving when I moved from ministry back to an into an HR space, everyone thought it was a very sudden move, right? They were just like, wow, this came out of nowhere. And in my head, I was just like, Are you kidding me? Like I have been feeling awful for a long time. Like I needed, but I needed a change. What are your thoughts around?

SPEAKER_02 18:05

What comes to mind for me is that one, kind of picking up on the last point you just made, that we don't always share with people everything that's happening and that we're experiencing. And in some situations, it's not necessary, it's not required, it may not be a safe space to do that. And so it can be shocking to people when we up and leave because they don't see the weight and the burden of what we're carrying and what we have picked up along the way. And then the other thing too is I don't know if it's like a I don't know if I would phrase it as a sort of like mental lie to say, you know, I just knew it was time. I think of it almost as our bodies are going to experience things and we're going to carry that stress and that weight of what we're experiencing over time. But we don't always connect our bodies to our brains very well, especially in environments where we're conditioned that, you know, just keep going, or I'm so committed to this, or I've already put in so much work for this. So, what I find is that at a certain point, what I would consider that is almost the culmination of all of those experiences, kicking off your intuition to tell you, hey, it's a moment now to start integrating the mind and body. What's really going on here? Yeah, we've reached time because it's like take it on, take it on, take it on, take it on. And then we're not realizing how quickly we're building up to it's time for me to leave.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Until our mind and our body integrate and go, enough's enough. It's time.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

When do you think is the best time? This is a loaded question. When do you think is the best time for a career transition? When do you, when is that best time for you to start listening to your mind and body? Because here's here's what here's the here's what I think people fall into. Here's what I've fallen into in the past is that, oh, it feels like too soon. I need to wait this out, right? Like maybe I'm just, maybe I just feel this way, but this isn't really what it is, you know. So I'm just gonna give it a little bit more time. Or you rush into it.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Right. I would say that you determine when the time is right because there are challenges that come with the transitions. There are things that we face when we transition our in roles like imposter syndrome. However, are you in the place to do it? Do your desires and motivations and goals and anything else that's propelling you forward outweigh what's keeping you where you are? Because we will stay in a situation as long as it serves us. But if I had to underline it, I would say the time is right when your situation no longer serves you.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

So you reach that point where, like, all right, I I've now hit diminishing returns. Like this is it will only be a net negative if I stay in this space.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Right. The costs are outweighing the benefits. It's not serving me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Where do you think people struggle the most with fact versus fiction with their career transitions?

SPEAKER_02 21:14

You made an interesting, you mentioned a phrase earlier, like the story I'm telling myself. I think that we, when we don't have all the facts, we're going to add, we're gonna find meaning and we're going to apply it to things. And then we're going to reinforce that narrative. And also people are going to struggle with fact versus fiction, depending on the environment that they're in and depending on their, their sort of psychology, the state that they are in. Because if you're working in an environment that's very toxic, you're being gaslit, you're going to start questioning do I have this right? Am I any good? Can I transition into something else? Versus if you're working in an environment where someone's very supportive. You're developing and you feel that you are ready to move on to the next step. Those are different cultures. And you're still gonna face different challenges, the fact versus fiction of the gaslighting. And then sometimes you might have a bit of like the loyalty if you're working in a really great environment, you know, are they gonna feel that I left them and that's not what I'm intending, but I have to do what's right for me. So I think really it's when we we don't, when we don't have an objective way of measuring that. And I that goes back to me for that have a trustworthy third-party person, someone who, you know, doesn't have influence or doesn't benefit from the change you do or do not make, but objectively can weigh in with you and genuinely has your best interest at heart. I definitely think the imposter syndrome is a large piece of that because you do transition and you're you're starting to compare yourself with, like you mentioned earlier, I'm in a room with someone else who has 27 years of HR experience and this is my first week on the job in an HR space, but I bring all these other skills, and in that it the comparison isn't really helping because we don't bring the same things to the table. And they wouldn't have hired me if they needed to just clone this other person who needed me for my skill set. So I do think that's one component that we face. And then another is that I would even back up before we even get into the role. We're gonna face some imposter syndrome of can I do it? Am I capable? And we're going to experience self-doubt and what feels like rejection through the transition process. Because very rarely are you going to have worked, let's say, in some role, you've got that down pat, you know how to talk about it and present yourself in that way, your resume is tailored to that. Great. Then you decide that you're gonna take a left turn and pursue something else and you have transferable skills, but you start putting that out there. Not everyone is going to see what you bring to the table. Not everyone is going to understand how you could go from ministry to HR. Hmm. Interesting. Teaching to retail leadership. You know, not everyone can connect those dots and see it. So we do the best we can with our resumes. There are a few other things we can talk about too that are a little bit different when you're transitioning in your career. But I think it's very important to reframe that getting a no is not a personal rejection. It's not about you and whether or not you do, in fact, have the abilities to make this transition. You have to use it as a data point. What does that tell you? Okay. You know, maybe they do want someone who really does have 15 years in this experience and all seven of these certifications. And I only have 12 years and three certifications. Okay, maybe they got 3,000 applications, which is not uncommon for this role where they have one thing to fill. So, okay, maybe there was a referral, or maybe there was someone internally they ended up promoting. So I would also say that we're gonna have that self-doubt. I'm not good enough, I'm not getting yeses quickly. This is not always a quick thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

What's a piece of advice that you would give them?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

I'm gonna come at that from two different ways because I think there are often two different environments in which people are making a transition. The first is that if you have a job and you are deciding that you would like to make a career transition, you're allowed to do that. That's the advice. You are allowed to do that because so many people question what are people gonna think about me? What if I I spend all this time to become this specialized role and I don't, I don't know about that. What about this? What about that? Can I even do it? You can. If you want to, if you follow that path, if you commit to it, you can. And that's okay. You don't have to always be this one thing. It's okay to make changes, you can transition if you want to. I think that's the first step for a lot of individuals because there's a comfort in the familiar and there's a fear in something new. And oftentimes we're looking for what's this clear path that I can take? And it may not be there. And it may you may need that for, or you may be looking for that for some level of assurance that you can do it, but you can do it. And doing it for yourself, doing it for your family, whatever your motivations are, is such an empowering act. You'll be amazed, it's very hard going into it, but you'll be amazed when you look back and go, I did that. I did that. That's incredible. What else can I do? And you can build on that. The other, I would say, is for someone who's making the transition, the other situation is when you've been let go of a job. You were in a job, you were serving in that role, and you were already not in love with it, you were thinking about it, but then it's very different when it's your choice to make the transition versus someone made the choice to end that role. And I'm gonna go back. I'm actually gonna borrow a line that I think I read from my friend Michelle Horde, who's an incredible woman. She's got a great book out there. The other side of yet, I believe is the title. I don't get any royalties for this. She's just amazing. So I want to hype her up.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

No, no, I'm I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

But she um she has an incredible story. And there was a line that she wrote that really stood out to me, which was I won't let the chapter I didn't write define my story.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

So if someone has let you go, that is a chapter you did not write. You did not choose that, but you can choose what you do next. And that would be my advice for someone in those situations because that can feel so challenging when that is choices taken away from you. That very much depends on the individual and how they process grief. Because grief is not linear. For example, I'll share my own story. I was working in a very high-tech environment, international responsibilities, and my sister passed away at 37. Completely unexpected. And I fell apart. I was a very high-functioning, you know, get everything done, I can handle this. Completely fell apart. That's not the grief of having your job ended, but it is a type of grief where for me, what came to mind and how I processed it the way that I'm wired was what am I doing? I know I have this set of skills, I know what I want to be doing, I'm not doing it. And then that was sort of the like really rude awakening that we don't know how much time we have on this planet. I can't bet on that. So for me, it was an opportune time to really, really look at what I was doing with my time, my skills, my efforts, and if I was ready and capable to make that transition. It also depends on what's best for you as far as your living situation. Because if you have responsibilities where it may take longer to go and get another job that's in a transition that you're interested in. However, you have financial needs and responsibilities where you need to be able to land something quickly. That's also it's a very personal decision. And it's one where I would encourage people to spend time to rather than avoid it or distance themselves from the discomfort, explore it with someone you can feel safe to explore it with so that you can move through it and make the choice that's best for you at that time. And you can always revisit a choice and make a different choice at a later time as you've processed more grief.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

I this this next this next chapter does not have to be the end of the story.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

So yeah, you are maybe gonna make some decisions in grief, right? You are going to make a, you know, a like listen, I'm this is where I'm at right now, and something's gotta break. Something's gonna give, I'm gonna do something, right? Like you have to make a decision, you have to move forward. And as long as you're moving forward, you're moving, you're going somewhere, and we can always change direction, but you can never change direction standing still. That that's for me, that's the advice that I would give.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

That that second piece of advice that I would give is find who you are. Know who you are, know thyself.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

I love that. It's one that may sound funny because I am a trained coach, but until I was trained as a coach, I had no idea about values. I did not think about that. I had my way of operating, you know. I I had things that I knew were important to me, but I was not clear on my values and what was important to me. And I started doing work in that space, and that was very helpful to guide me going forward because the other thing I hear a lot from clients is I don't just want to run away from something. And I think values is the way that you run to something. You know there's alignment as you walk towards it. I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Please.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Switching the interview today. So you have been on the hiring side for quite a while and you do some incredible work. So we're talking about career transitions, but also you've had the opportunity to interview and hire people who have had career gaps, who have had career transitions, who are second chance hires. What advice would you give for people who are interviewing talent that you have found from your experiences where people have made these incredible career transitions? What are the takeaways?

SPEAKER_03 31:30

So here's what I would say as to employers that are interviewing and sourcing talent who maybe, just as you described, do not be intimidated by non-traditional hire. They they will we we talk about culture fit. My goodness, I hate that expression. I want a culture ad. I want someone that I'm gonna bring into the building and it elevates what I've already got inside the building, right? Culture fits, we keep it even, right? And if and if the back of my board on my company's value like commission statement is we want to raise value for our stakeholders, well, then I I can't do culture fits. I got to do culture ads because you just told me already that I've got to grow value. So that means internally with the talent that we have, we have to grow value. I find an incredible amount of value in people who have experiences that are refined, experiences that are outside what we currently have, right? I would tell an employer and a hiring manager, do you understand who your team is right now? Do you know what your team is? And do you know where your gaps are? And you need to be hiring to fill gaps and elevate the culture, right? If you're missing something, then you add to it. And if what you're missing is experience, you add experience. If what you are missing is someone who has been able to mature their process through trial and error, then that's what you need. So and again, when you look at those, I think about the non-traditional that have been through a couple of career transitions. You are the sum of your parts. Your history is what makes you up. I I think about me, right? And I think about my own personal every single role that I have been in has helped add to what I am right now. And so you would look at my resume and you'd be like, my man has had like four different careers. Like, is he unhappy? Like, no, I'm not unhappy. But I have seen where my values have culminated into what I'm doing now as an HR professional, as an HR manager that allows to get a lot to spend a lot of time with youth development and intern programs and being in high schools and developing these pipelines, but also doing a lot of leadership mentoring. The same thing that I was doing as soon as I quit teaching is the exact same thing I'm doing right now and training leaders, right? It is just now a piece of what I'm doing instead of the whole thing of what I'm doing. So, can you look at a resume and identify these pieces and go, this is what it is that I'm looking for. This is what I am needing. You said it best. I don't need a copy paste of this person, right? That person isn't here anymore. So if you're copy-pasting someone that isn't here anymore, that may not be what you're you're really wanting to accomplish, right? So I would say to the employer, stop trying to find the perfect resume and start trying to find the skills that you need. Start trying to find the things that you are missing, right? Like look for what you need and go after that. Don't look for status quo, don't look for the fit, look for the ad. Look for the thing that you know will move you forward and make you better.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

So we've talked about like interviewers, what are we looking for? How do we consider maybe these non-traditional applications that we're getting? But how about on the side of the person going through the job search? How do they approach it, set themselves up, stand out, and achieve the transition?

SPEAKER_03 35:16

I think where a lot of people struggle is how do I articulate what I can do, right? Now, people will tell you, man, I need to see statistics on a resume. But like if I look at someone's resume and it looks like a greatest hits of percentages, I'm I'm like, my, I'm gonna glaze over, right? Like it's so cool that you accomplished this, but you also accomplished it as a team, right? And by that line, I actually have no idea how much you actually participated in that $50 million revenue gross, right? You can put that on your resume, but honestly, you may have been a 10% contribution to that. I'm just going to automatically think, okay, hey, like what did they actually contribute to that, right? Here's what I want to see. What have you touched? What have you tangibly touched? What are you able to do, right? Because a resume, by its nature, is this list of things that I've done. And I hate that about resumes. Like I genuinely hate that because people go into it of this is what I've done, right? And that's because that's what status quo tells us is the resume needs to say what I've done. Man, I need to know what you can do. I need to know what you're capable of because your skill set is what I'm looking for. And I don't want to talk in past tense. If your resume is past tense, well, we're talking about people that are retiring now. Like I don't want a past tense resume. Give me a present-tense resume because I want to be able to know what you can do in the future.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

So, another another question, kind of going further along, we've talked about resumes. However, as we both know, you can open a position, goes on the job board, suddenly you're flooded with resumes. You have some resumes that are going to come in and check every single box and be so shiny and pretty. You have some that come in where maybe it's not going to be as clear because someone is transitioning in their career. What are other ways and maybe non-traditional or creative ways in which people who are navigating a career transition can open doors for themselves through this process?

SPEAKER_03 37:21

I know networking is a buzzword, but I do think it's a very real thing. Networking is so important. Going to, so Ashville's really good about doing really great networking events. So I would always be seeking out networking events that are relevant to what you are wanting to do for a career, the role that you're wanting to continue to grow in and find work in. So look at local area, like look at local events in your area for networking events, you know, and make sure that you're introducing yourself, saying hello, sitting at tables, like, you know, if there's three people at a table and there's one empty seat, that needs to be you in it. So I, you know, and that's gonna be that's that's rough for my introverts to hear. But I mean it's it's one of those things too, where like you if you're wanting to be, if you're a job seeker and things aren't historically working, you're gonna have to try new things even if they're uncomfortable. That's just a reality of it. I say that as someone who, when I see a table of three people and one missing chair, usually I'll just find an empty table and maybe three people will show up and join me. But I'll very rarely be the one that joins it, right? And I've had to break myself of that habit. So do local networking events, make connections, you know. I don't super love the art of self-promotion, but I think that's only because I I struggle with it. So I've tried to pivot around strategies that aren't wholly self-promotion. But at the end of the day, you do need to be willing to be able to speak to the things that you can do, not your value. Because I think when you start trying to say, man, I'm I'm trying to give you my value, and someone says that's not what I'm looking for, you can start going, do I have no value? And that's not true. So being able to articulate the skill set, right? Because the skill set can grow and evolve, right? But I don't want anyone to ever take away value. Um, you know, I do think LinkedIn is an incredible tool. And what I mean by using LinkedIn as an incredible tool is I don't mean just applying to all of the easy apply jobs on LinkedIn, right? That's not the goal, right? Does LinkedIn work? I can tell you 100% yes, it does, but it only works if, again, you're willing to put yourself out there. If all you're doing is hitting connect and then not looking at it for every two weeks or just using it to apply to jobs and then walking away from it, you're going to struggle with it. That's not what the tool was designed for. You know, there's a post button because they want you to post, right? So that it built. No, so using that as a tool, right? Go to career fairs. Please go to career fairs. Go to career fairs and do not just give them your resume. Do not. Do not give them your resume and hope on a dream and a wish. You take a business card from them and you go, I'm going to email you. I'm going to reach out to you personally. I'm going to make this connection, right? Because if I just hand you my resume and walk around, I saw 50 other people before me give you a resume, right? But I'm going to reach out to you. I am going to make a connection, right? And I am going to, because you were bold enough to give me your professional email. We have now become professional best friends. Like, so you're going to hear from me, right? Make that personal connection. If your only way of exhibiting your skills is just by clicking apply, you're always going to struggle. Unless you get lucky and someone pulls your lottery numbers from the ATS, it's very difficult. You have got, you have got to make the personal connection, especially as a non-traditional, where you may already have some factors working against you just from the paper alone. You got to make sure that if the paper can't articulate it well, that you can articulate it well and you give yourself the ability to put yourself in that space.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

I like that because I there are so it's a numbers game. I think the lottery is the perfect metaphor for it of I applied and now it's a hope and a wish and a prayer. But there are other actions you can take to make yourself stand out. Networking. And I will say, you mentioned, you know, that's not the thing that the introverts want to hear for people who are less comfortable in large settings of people. You can reach out one-on-one to people. Hey, we're connected. Would you do a virtual coffee chat? Would you do a real coffee chat? As well as, hey, maybe I don't know someone at this organization, but I know Joshua. And Joshua knows someone at this organization. Would Joshua be willing to help make the connection for me so that I can talk to them? And then when I'm talking to them, come prepared with what you want to ask, why you're reaching out, sharing a little bit about what you're doing. So that way it's not just a very nice to meet you. Okay, we chatted about the weather and you know, dogs and our favorite food. Instead, it's you're you're going, you're showing them the intention, you're putting the work in. Um, that's just on another format if if larger groups are not for you.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Even things that you don't think matter matter. We don't really use staffing agencies in my corporation. Uh, we use a lot of like second chance hiring and things like that because we have the value of reinvesting back into the community in that specific way. Work, network, network. I want my job seekers to network and I want my employers to network so that that community and that that ecosystem can thrive. Thank you everybody for listening for to with us today. Uh, we are so excited that you got to spend some time with us, that we more importantly got to spend some time with you. These topics are near and dear to our hearts. So we just ask that if there's anything that you've missed in the last couple of months, feel free to go back, listen to those. Be on the lookout. Each month we're gonna have new episodes for you, all on different topics, all on things that are going to pertain to leadership, to workplace, and we're gonna deal a lot and sometimes how you're gonna take that home with you and how you're how you're gonna show up in your own home. So we look forward to being able to spend this time with you. We look forward to spending future time with you. Please feel free to leave us a review. Let us know your thoughts on it. Anything that can make us better, we live for. Uh so feel free to drop us a comment uh and please subscribe and continue to be a listener with us. We're so excited to have you here.