You Are Not Alone - Work Edition
Join us as HR and Leadership professionals discuss the challenges of work and ways they have found to muddle through. We laugh, we cry, we get real.
You Are Not Alone - Work Edition
What To Do If You Are Open To Work
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In this episode, Joshua and Emily explore the evolving landscape of job searching, networking, resume crafting, and interview strategies. They share practical tips to help job seekers navigate the digital age and stand out in a competitive market.
Key topics
- The evolution of job searching from paper to digital
- Effective networking in the digital age
- Resume crafting with AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude
- Interview preparation and behavioral questions
- Managing rejection and staying persistent
Keywords
job search, networking, resume tips, interview strategies, career transition, digital networking, job hunting, professional development
Get In Touch
Thanks so much for spending this time with us. We’d love to hear what resonated, what challenged you, or what you’d like us to explore next.
You can connect with Joshua on LinkedIn here and with Emily here. You can also learn more about Emily's work at alocoaching.com.
Until next time, take care.
Hello everyone and welcome to You Are Not Alone, The Work Edition. This is Emily and I's podcast where we get to spend and share some time with you regarding many of the topics that you're going to come face to face with each day in your professional life, sometimes in your personal life. Today's topic, we want to spend some time with you on being open to work and what it looks like as a job seeker. That's going to cover a lot of topics. There's going to be some things today that you'd want to hear and we're probably not going to be able to hit on, right? There's going to be some things that we're probably going to explore a little bit more. This is such a broad topic, right? And when people listen to a topic like this, they naturally want to either look for advice or suggestions or recommendations. And we'll touch on a lot of that. But if you find that maybe we haven't hit on exactly something that you're feeling in this, just know that this is an ongoing topic and maybe something that's been discussed in episodes before, and I'll probably be touched on in the future. But let us begin. And I'm so excited to be here with you, my dear friend.
SPEAKER_01Very excited to be here too.
SPEAKER_00So this topic is near and dear to my heart. Uh, one, just as someone who's been for decades now in the talent sphere, and two, just from a uh personal thing, like I actually have had the opportunity. I'm gonna date this episode by a personal anecdote, uh, which is one of the main rules never to do. But so my wife is currently looking for a job. So I've had this interesting modal to see over the last two months a job seeker's point of view, right? I'm not gonna lie, it's been uh it's been years um since I've had to actively look for a job, right? Blessed in that regard. So this was always coming from a place for me where I was touching this from the place of not the job seeker, but the one seeking the job seeker. So it's been very interesting to see that point of view so close to home and be able to watch some of those emotions rise. Because when I was looking for jobs years and years ago, the landscape has changed a lot since then. And that is that's something that I appreciated and knew, but I don't think fully respected from netting.
SPEAKER_01So I think that'd be great to talk about is how has that landscape changed over the years? Because I think you and I kind of came up in that 2008, post-2008 challenges that were impacting the job market that was also things were fairly digital, but not entirely digital. We didn't indeed and LinkedIn and all of these other job boards and job aggregators really weren't um as prominent and as influential in the space as they have been over maybe the last five, 10 years. So, from your point of view, what would you say has shifted for job seekers from you know 15, 20 years ago through to today?
SPEAKER_00What I'm seeing now is more of that digitalization of it. But I think there's almost now this assumed, or let me let me let me word it a different way. I think the networking is still incredibly important. One of the other things that I've noticed is we're we'll we'll talk a little bit more about this, I'm sure. The the machine gun approach of just apply, apply, apply, apply, putting hundreds of applications out there. I I think if I had been asked this question a while ago, I probably would have said a different answer. I would have said, I think you put as many applications out there as possible, right? And just the more you the more you present, the the higher your chances of a return are. In a numbers game, somebody very good at math and science could probably say that's true, right? They can give me some percentages. What I noticed was the human cost of that. There is a level of application burnout that happens when you look at the number and say, I applied to a hundred jobs and only four reached back out to me at any level or any capacity. That is 94 to 96 people that you've now told yourself had no interest in me at all. And there's a there's an emotional toll to that where you just keep applying, you keep applying, you keep applying, you throw everything out there and you get nothing back and you feel like you're spinning this incredible will. So I think before, like you would go out, I'm really gonna date myself here, but you would take your resume and you would drop it off to places. You might hit, you might go to 10 to 15 places, but your chances were a lot higher, right? Because there was this connection there. Now, because so much of that networking is digital, you can walk into a place and ask for an application, and they'll almost always say, we do that online, you'll have to, you'll have to go online. And they've taken that human element out of it. So now you're forced into a digital ecosystem anyway.
SPEAKER_01And it's just, it has been such a unique transition over the years. You also mentioned earlier um the mass applying, and a couple things stood out to me in that, which is as a coach, I've worked with many people through the application process and the job seeking process. And often what I hear, and I've experienced this myself as well, is I put out the applications, I put out tons of applications and they did all the right things, and we can get into that in a second, but then they don't hear back from anyone, or maybe from one in a hundred, and the the numbers are so slim. And with that, it can feel very personal. And we start to tell ourselves they don't want me. And that is a very challenging internal narrative to hear repeatedly day after day, as you're facing sometimes somewhat dire consequences. It depending on your financial situation, your familial situation, you may desperately need to find a job. And the longer that goes on, the more that that stress rises.
SPEAKER_00There is true, you hit on this just there is true real life consequences to not having a job. That is, and I think that's what adds so much tension to when something like this happens, is because if you're in a position where you're actively seeking it because you need a job, because there is no source of income from your angle, and you need to be able to some capacity provide. Now that that pressure and that tension gets multiplied, and then you start building deadlines. And you start naturally building deadlines because bill payments have deadlines, right? These are not manufactured deadlines, these are true and real deadlines, you know, that exist. So you start thinking to yourself, I can get two months behind on this. I can't go any further than that. And then what happens when that two months of that job search goes past that, right? And, you know, we talked about finding identity in work before and the dangers of that. You can, that's true, don't find identity in work, but sometimes you find identity in a different way. You find identity in that I'm a provider and a caretaker for my family. That's a good identity to have, right? What that does though is now that it messes with your identity because you're no longer providing and caregiving in the way that you want to be able to for your family. So that loss of job, all of those people not responding to you, it does become a lot more personal. Because there are personal things at stake here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I was thinking about, so I'm currently in grad school and my classmates are from all over the country and all over the world. And I was I was listening to a classmate share her experiences where she worked in finance, which to me, finance is a very specialized skill. And she was sharing that she was laid off. Her company went through downsizing and laid off a bunch of people, and she was one of the people affected. And she shifted with her degree in finance, with her master's in progress, to working at a brewery. Okay. Finance to a brewery. How in the world are those even related? No, they're not. But she shared that she is loving her experience at the brewery because of the community that it is and because of what it allows her to do, which is live her life, meet her needs, meet the needs of those who depend on her. And I just want to highlight or underline that because oftentimes, like you just said, finding our identity in work, but sometimes when needs must, we pivot. And it's okay to take a step back. It's a it's okay to take a step sideways. It's okay to make a left turn. It's whatever serves you. And this is a tough industry that we're or a tough job market that we're navigating right now. So for the people who are really struggling with that mentality of, you know, I've always been this specific role or I need to be at this level of role because that's important to me. When I've transitioned in careers and when I've taken different jobs, one thing that my husband has shared with me that was very helpful was this doesn't have to be the forever job. This doesn't have to be the forever, you know, career path. So if you are seeking a job and you just need to make ends meet, you don't, it doesn't mean anything about you if you take a job that is maybe one level lower than what you're really qualified for, or in a different industry than what you have the experience in. No matter where you go, you bring your skills with you and you can continue to seek opportunities after the fact. Once you start stabilizing, then you can start looking again for what serves you.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a great point. I think people get, and we've talked about career transitions before. We had a whole episode around career transitions. I think it's important to have that humility to to stop and say the what I feel like I should be doing or what I think that I should be doing at this stage in my career is not unimportant, but does not the ambition does not serve me because I cannot there is no currency in ambition when you're when you're jobless, right? So to your point, being able to to take a step in a different direction. And I'm not I'm not calling out your wording on this, but as you were saying it, I was even thinking it to myself was taking a step back almost feels disingenuous to your situation. Because even if you feel like you're even if one could quote unquote say it's a step back in your career, being able to find gainful employment when you desperately need it is a step forward. Like it is whatever serves you. I love that you use that. I think that's an incredible expression and phrase. Whatever serves you most in that time, that is your step forward. And I know for me personally, I have taken different avenues so that I could move forward in different directions, right? I it would people could look at, well, Josh was making $20,000 less, he's taking a step back. No, I I get probably 10 more hours a day or 10 more hours a week with my wife now, right? That's and at home. That's a step forward to me, you know, because they took that chance, they were able to find something that they love that they did not even anticipate. I assure you, there's finance careers in breweries. They make a ton of money. So I know someone's counting it. So jet that doesn't have to mean it's a dead end on your passion or your career either. The timing may just not be in that moment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. One thing that kind of connecting some of the dots of what we've talked about so far is that you have no control over the job market. You have no control over which job you do or do not get, but you do have control over how you decide to think about it, how you decide which job you take or what you do. And that in and of itself can be very valuable because it does empower you for what's the next steps that you want to take, what's the next steps with where you want to go. Um and I think when you are in this headspace of like, ah, I just I can't win, I can't control, I can't, I can't, I can't, it feels very disempowering. But to realize even any step that is meeting my end needs is a step forward.
SPEAKER_00And then we have those that are, you know, looking for jobs, but that don't already have jobs, your desperation can be heard and seen and felt if you're not careful. And at the end of the day, very rarely will an employer choose you because during the interview you said, I really have to have this. Or, man, I've had so many of, and I'm giving these examples because I've seen it, right? These are not, these are not strong, man. I'm not pulling them from somewhere. This is why I urge people to be careful, is don't let your prior experiences and your prior lack of having a job or the needs that are pressing down on you. This is easy preaching, hard living, but do not let it into that interview. It does not make you more authentic, but it doesn't, and while our hearts are moved by it, we still have to make the best decision for the company. We still have to make the best decision for the team. And you need to be the right fit and you need to be the, and I don't like fit, you need to be the right addition and the right ad to the team to move it and drive it and grow it forward, right? And spending a portion of your interview or even dropping lines and they're talking about the the sense of desperation and urgency that you have is not well-spent time. It doesn't mean it's not true, but it's not well spent time and time that will serve you when speaking to someone that's interviewing you.
SPEAKER_01I will also add to that that everybody's always going through something at some point. It's not to compare, you know, lack of job is different from someone who's navigating cancer treatment, who's navigating loss in the family. That's not the point. The point is that if you are experiencing a challenge and you show up to an interview, present yourself professionally and show that you can regulate your emotions and moderate your performance in that interview, you are in effect showing them what you can do under stress and pressure. And that's more impactful than showing up with the anxiety and the frustration spilling across, where they then think, what happens if we go through a large change or we have a major setback? How will you show up? That's an opportunity for you to exhibit to them how effectively you can navigate those situations.
SPEAKER_00That's a hundred percent it. It again, it for us, it's not that we are going to know what your situation was and we're going to go, they were very strong during that interview. That was incredible. Let's hire them. We don't know enough about your past, nor shouldn't we that we're able to make that a to be able to say that. But we can immediately say exactly what you're talking about if you're not able to regulate those emotions. We're going to ask the question, what's going to happen when things go sideways? How are they going to be able to respond to that stress? That question would have never come up before, but it came up by the product of you having or you needing or feeling like you should express that to us, right? You are answering a question that no one even asked, right? And sometimes during an interview, the best thing that you can do is just answer the interview, answer the questions that are asked. Honestly, forthright, and with a lot of passion and conviction. And I will say, no matter who is interviewing, uh, whether it be someone that you know has a job or does not have a job, once you once you get inside that interview, I j I just said this a moment ago. Passion and conviction. If if you tell me something and I and I can hear it in your voice and I can believe it, right? And I go, this is somebody that truly cares about this. That is that is incredible. That's something I want to hook on to, right? That is if you're if you just cite what you've done, sometimes people make the mistake in an interview of giving their biography. Let's not do that. We've all like said, we we've seen the resume, right? And one, your resume should not be a life story anyway. But don't give us a biography. Let's latch on to those things that you're most passionate about, that you have the most conviction about, and speak to those. Be like, you know, when I when I decided to apply to your company, you know, I saw that you had an opening from this. And what drew me to it was this is very much in my wheelhouse. You know, when I so like when I applied to the company that I have now, and I took on a talent role, like one of the one of the things that I said, man, and this is this should probably be on my tombstone because it is the very epitome of my philosophy. And that is green people create green metrics. And that is something I said in my interview because when I was interviewing for the talent position, and the conviction and the compassion showed through. It was something I got complimented on later after being hired.
SPEAKER_01I want to pivot a little bit here because it I feel as though we are we're getting into certain specific elements, and I kind of want to take people through the process with particular strategies, which you're hitting on so many of them. I want to almost take them through the timeline. So the job search, what are some strategic approaches that we can take? The networking component, what are strategic, what are unique ways that you can approach that to stand out? And then resume crafting. You mentioned using AI. How do we use AI for those who maybe aren't familiar with it or they've used it and they're like, meh, it's not great. Let's get more out of it. And then actually in the interview, you know, you've got that opportunity, make that first impression. You've got that opportunity to tell them what you can do for that organization and why you're the right person and how you do that.
SPEAKER_00So define your two needs first, right? What are my immediate needs? I need a career long term to suit my passions. I need something in the short term to meet my needs for my home, right? You're going to apply to those two things differently, right? So for the meets my short-term needs, I would do a more like let's apply every like what am I physically able to do and what meets my schedule? Let's apply to those places. I just need somewhere that I could get in with some quick onboarding and be able to do at a low entry point, right? That is your approach will automatically be different, right? So, and the interviews approaches will be different for those. But like I said, if you're if you're looking for something for the short term, then do more of that mass apply. But be intentional, like don't apply for things that clearly don't fit your schedule and clearly don't fit your physical needs, right?
SPEAKER_01Add to that if you're reading the job descriptions and it clearly is not going to be a good fit for you if you're already in a stressful place and then you join an organization where they're like, we want everything, sacrifice your life for this job. I have seen things like that in job postings, and you realize you don't have that to give, or that will just put you in a cycle that's gonna spiral further. Take those off the list.
SPEAKER_00Build some boundaries, 100%. Know what you can and can't do. Uh, like I said, it is a step forward to still get a job at Engels, right? It is a step forward to still work in some of the fast food places that you now have a higher culture, right? Like I said, there's plenty of places for that short-term gain. For the long-term gain, we'll come back to what we're kind of mentioning before that long-term career is again be intentional, be specific. You've now sending out applications for those that's going to get you through the bill, right? Now we've got some income going. All right.
SPEAKER_01I would add to that list as well for the more career-focused applications. There is data that shows, and this it does apply more so to women than to men, that if you do not check all of the requirement boxes or the preference boxes that you won't apply. I highly encourage you still to apply if you have the skills and the capacity to be able to do those things. Because you just don't know. There may be something that you apply and they see in your resume, huh? This actually really translates. Or if there's something about their experiences, what they're saying they can do that really is what we need here. So just adding that encouragement that don't count yourself out if you're only checking 70% of the boxes.
SPEAKER_00100%. And to that point, I will, and I can't speak for what you've seen in your time and my career. You know how rare it is to see somebody that actually checks all the boxes? You don't always start that way on your first day.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. All right. The next portion there was we were talking about the value of networking. We were talking about how it's made a massive shift into more of The digital space. So for people who are looking to start networking, put feelers out, tap their network, what would you advise?
SPEAKER_00Make friends fast and often when you have the opportunity to connect with someone. And I don't mean just hit the connect button and now you're a connection. That doesn't count. That's not networking. That is adding people to your pool, but that is not networking. The ability to connect is actually being able to say, hey, you know, thanks you. Thank you so much. You know, I this is what I'm interested in. This is what I'm able to do. Be the person that strikes up a conversation. Uh be the person that is building a digital footprint, right? I we hired somebody for our for one of our positions off of LinkedIn because of his digital footprint. I saw who he was. I saw the connections that he was making now, I saw the way that he was interacting with people. I saw the way that he was able to connect with people. And I was like, this is the kind of guy I want in my building. Like, this is the kind of person that is able to create connections, to draw people into his sphere, and make relationships matter. And in a sales position, I desperately need that because relationships is what builds a business when it comes to sales like that. So I need a relationship builder. So his digital footprint and how he proved that he was able to connect and excuse me, connect and comment and be a part of the ecosystem drew me in. And that was very important. So again, networking when you're on a sphere like that, that is massive. I will also say there's still some old school level of networking that matters. So when you're at these career fairs, this is your opportunity to meet somebody face to face, which you are not typically going to have in a digital front. So this is so, so special. So go to career fairs. If you're off that day, go to a career fair if you're looking for a job and your employer's not going to be there. Like feel free to shop to talk to some people, make some connections. That is absolutely massive. Be able to put your resume in someone's hand or put your business card in somebody's hand. Uh, have a conversation, you know. Just don't and don't just talk about your skills again. Talk about some of the things that you're passionate about, some of the things that you you've cared for. Be more curious than the person at the booth, right?
SPEAKER_01I love that list. And I there were a couple of things popping up to me as you were speaking with the networking component, where one is networking doesn't just have to be new people. Tap your existing network. This is why we say don't burn bridges. You never know where someone's going to land where they may have an opportunity or a need and they know what you're capable of. And that's the connection that makes everything happen. And I would also say clearly, if you're if you are reaching out to people to network, whether their existing network or you're building relationships, have a clear ask of them. Hey, would you, I'm I'm interested in this organization, I'm interested in this industry, I'm transitioning in my career, I'm seeking a position. I would love to know are you available for a coffee chat, virtual live, whatever works there. Um, because the number I this is gonna sound nuts, but the number of coaching clients that I have had that have gotten jobs because they reached out to someone, asked for a coffee chat, and specifically mentioned that they were for a job would would floor you. Crazy. And that oftentimes clients will come to me and they will be really desperate, really down. And they take that step and things start moving. And that's what that networking component really does turn the ship. And I would also say mention and ask to your network. You said earlier people posting on Facebook, that's where we often build more of our personal connections. But let people know what you're looking for in your life. Let your family, friends, partner, let them share that you're looking at what you're looking for because word of mouth is so powerful. And if you have a job, I just want to put a little context out there for the people who maybe have not been on this side of things, but Joshua and I have been. When you open up a job and it's online, and if it's posted just locally or it's posted and it goes out onto job aggregators, in a matter of hours, there can be hundreds, if not thousands, of applications. And the volume of those that are qualified versus aren't, the manpower to get through all of that is not nearly putting your application into that pool is not nearly as impactful as a direct connection, a direct communication, a direct ask. They are not even in the same sphere.
SPEAKER_00And it is, that is 100%. And as an employer, my one of the things I say to myself and say to my team, especially around this, is that we want a known commodity. And we will a reference will always be a known commodity. It doesn't guarantee you a job, but it can definitely boost that opportunity to get an interview. And then once you have an interview, it's all on you, right? But it is it is so much better to be able to be in front of somebody in an interview than to always wonder. So that connection is absolutely pivotal. You are 100% right.
SPEAKER_01Boy, don't just go up to people in the grocery store and say, hey, I'm looking for a job, but let it develop organically as a conversation does. Um, but let it happen organically. Yeah, community is a huge one. Um, talking about we we sort of started to get into the interview before we get into that resume, resume prep, resume crafting, using AI, AI prompts for resume development. What are your thoughts around that?
SPEAKER_00There is again nothing wrong with using AI for your resume as long as everything inside the resume is true. Like however you create it, it does not matter. It needs to tell a good story of your skill set and your competencies. It needs to be formatted in a way that is easy to read and very digestible, that highlight the key things that you want someone to see, right? Don't don't bury the lead. No, make the parts that matter stand out, right? Hey, I need a job, I need a, you know, someone in talent. I need the employer to see this specific thing. So make sure that those are drawn out. You know, you want you want every line in your resume to matter. So keep it to about one page and just be very detailed and very specific about this is why this company should interview me, because these are very specific and very real numbers and things that I have accomplished and done. And if you don't always have the numbers, let's face it, not everybody's tracking their own KPIs and their careers, that's okay too. Numbers when you can, details where you can't, right? Be able to tell that story. Um, you know, don't just say classic, classic. Excuse me. I over I managed employees. Okay, cool. But what what did you actually do, right? So it is better for you to tell me that you led a team of 18 production associates than you managed a team. That is a good number, right? Because I might need to be hired, like I might want to hire somebody that's going to lead a team of 12 and you've led a team of 24. That gives me some confidence, right? So do have some level of specificity. Even if it's I'm looking for someone to lead 12 and you've only led four, that still feels pretty good to me. You've led personalities, right? Managed employees can mean anything, right? So do try to have some level of detail. If you've ever reduced turnover, let me know. If you've ever saved a company money, let me know, right? That is so important. Um, like I said, it is better to it's better to give measurable results when you can, but and you'd let your wording be as specific as possible. But if you can't give numbers, don't, but never make them up.
SPEAKER_01I would say for that, a couple of things that I have done in the past and I've coached others to do in the past that have been successful. If you're going to use AI, and I recommend it because if you are tailoring resumes, then it can help do that. The two that I have used are ChatGPT and Claude. I would recommend Claude over ChatGPT for resume creation specifically. I feel that it's able to synthesize more information more effectively in the mindset of what the end user is looking for. And here's how I have done it. First off, if you have an existing resume, you can upload that to Claude or to ChatGPT and say, here's my previous resume, existing resume. But AI needs context in order to put out good quality content. So what I have done and what I've coached is record, you can speak to it, record and just talk through your experience. Hey, between these years, I held this title, I did these things, and you can get general conversation. I led a team of eight people, we were responsible for XYZ. Ultimately, over 12 months, we achieved this, that, and the other. Move on to the next one. Talk to it. If you're using Claude, it will often ask you questions as well around clarifying questions, what else, what's next. Then I would tell them here's the job I'm actually looking to apply to. Either copy and paste it in, send the link over. And I would pull the company mission, values, expectations, anything like that, and upload it and say, based off of my experience, specifically based off my experience, based off of what they're looking for this job and what I can do for them, tailor a resume for this job description. And then, of course, read it over because, like we were talking about earlier, every now and then it's gonna hallucinate. And suddenly you were the executive vice president over China and you've never been to China. So make sure things like that don't make it into the resume, but it's a great way to use it. And you don't have to be super AI prompt savvy. You're just giving it context, you're telling it what you want. Read it and say, you know, this doesn't quite highlight this faction factor. I want it to be a little more clear about this. I often see a resume where the education is at the top. This is highly relevant if you are fresh out of school and do not have a lot of work experience. But if you have work experience, nobody cares what your GPA was. They want to know what you achieved. I know people with 4.0 GPAs that their work does not necessarily align with that. I know people with 3.2 GPAs that have blown me away. Put your education at the bottom, and in fact, I don't even care about your GPA. Put your experience at the top in chronological order, and each bullet point should also be in order of what's most relevant to the role that you can drive the impact on.
SPEAKER_00Again, I loved your advice around AI, especially being able to speak into it. That's one of my favorite features about it, because I will sometimes brain dump to Claude. And so I will just turn the recorder on and be like, hey, this is what I'm wanting to accomplish. Like, tell me the parameters of this, like tell like build something out of what this looks like, right? Said I I never let it write for me, but I always let it structure for me because it does a really good job of formatting and structuring and helping a line and navigate, right? Clyde, especially is an incredible architect, does a very good job of of of skeleting something out um for for you to be able to put the the meat to. But definitely, definitely again, I'm gonna say this one more time. Do not lie.
SPEAKER_02It will catch up with you.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, there is no way you were the VP of China. I'm just gonna go ahead and call you out now.
SPEAKER_01Um all right, next stage, and I think kind of the the final stage. I'd love to explore the interview process. You've gotten the interview, first off, amazing. Congratulations. Now, what do you do to make that time to maximize and optimize that time so that you improve your odds of either moving to the next stage or getting the role?
SPEAKER_00Uh one of the biggest things that a lot of companies do that, I'm not gonna lump you into this because this is a very hot take. I'm against the star method, um, but I know a lot of companies are for it. So companies are gonna ask you these questions based on the star method. So be prepared for that. Situation task action result, right? What was a situation? What were you asked to do? What actions did you take? What was the result of your actions in given situations, right? They're going to want that because it's immeasurable, right? However, again, do not let AI populate an answer for you, right? Don't don't make up scenarios, right? Let them be organic. Um, practice behavioral question, right? I would probably say that most interviews outside of maybe software engineers and high-level engineering, a lot of them are going to be behavioral based because they need to understand how you're going to act, navigate, and respond to certain triggers, right? Because your resume is going to tell us that you know how to do the job. We're not worried about that at this stage. Can you do the job when the situation, like once the heat rises, how is your ability to perform? There's going to be a lot of behavioral questions. Talk about conflicts. Conflicts happen at work all of the time, right? And it may not even be a conflict with another person. It may not even be a conflict with a supervisor. What was a time that you were working through a very difficult scenario at work? You know, it comes back to that star. But one of the things that I'll talk about in terms of questions with an interview is not only knowing how to answer the questions, but being able how to ask questions as well. I said earlier that being curious was one of the most important things that a person can do that hasn't changed. Stay curious in an interview. Here are some of my favorite questions. First one, you you want you want me in your corner? Ask this question. What does success look like? How what does it mean? Like, let's say that I come in. What does success look like? What do you need to see from me the first 30, 60, 90 days? What is it going to look like for me to perform at a high level for you? Right? What are the biggest challenges in this role? What have you seen people struggle with the most in this role? Like, where do the challenges lie? There might be an opportunity for you to be able to speak to that or tie that back into another skill or transferable skill that you have and be able to speak to that. Be like, oh, this is a challenge that you're having with your company. Again, I were to able to do such and such at this level in such and such way. You know, hey, you have a problem, I have a solution, or historically, I've had a solution, right? But never in the history of an interview should you ever say, I don't have any questions. I feel I feel good. I feel good. Yeah, no questions, please. I'm good. If I you can take yourself fast by saying, I don't have any questions, I I do not value that because I know you have to have you either have done such an incredible job of explaining this company and explaining what we do at every level that you can walk in day one and crush it, or you never were that curious in the first place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I would agree there, and I have two things to add to that portion of the the question. Well, two questions and a couple other additional points. Um one is depending on the level you're interviewing for, ask a question that shows you're capable of operating at that level. If you're coming in for a director or strategic leadership role, you want to be able to ask a question that shows them that you can think about what it is that they need and how you can be a strategic partner. So something like if you're meeting with the executive team or someone higher up, you know, what is the vision that you have for the next 12 months and how will this role specifically support that? That way they see you're not just thinking about how do I get through the day to day, you're thinking about how do I partner and add value. And then I would also say, I love to take the time at an end of an interview and right before I get into questions, because we're still sort of serving their needs, I ask, what, if any reservations do you have about what I've shared about my experiences so far? That gives them an opportunity to say, Well, I've really liked what you've said, but I'm I haven't heard so much about, you know, remote team management. That gives you an opportunity to directly address it because after the fact, your time talking to them is over. You can send them a thank you email, you can send a follow-up, but you have no idea if they're left with any reservations. This is your opportunity to vaccinate those. And then what I would also say is um, you were talking about the star method, you were talking about questions. You can use AI to do that and and prepare in advance your answers, practice in advance and anticipate the kinds of questions that they're going to ask. Using AI, great tool. But one of the things we talk about in IOSYC is OKRs, objectives and key results. So for each of those requirements of the job description, um, or like the dis what you're doing in your job description, there are objectives, like what they want and the key results that those will drive. So anticipate the questions and provide answers that specifically speak to what they want and the result they want and how you are the person to drive it.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Like I said, it is I I've never I've never been in psyched, or at least that level. I did child psychology. We didn't talk about OKR there. But we don't intervene jobs. Yeah, we didn't, unless we're putting them in the minds. We didn't, we didn't really do much with them. Um, but OKR is perfect. I loved that because again, one of the big things I'm looking for is results, right? The results that you've done, and I'm trying to see if I can take the results that you're telling me you've given and vision cast you into having those same results for me, right? It is being able to translate past results into future results. And I I absolutely love that. And I love what you mentioned about being able to ask those strategic questions based on the level that you are applying for and making those questions intentional and specific. I I think that's that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Because it it is an opportunity to show them that you're already thinking that way and that you can and provide that value.
SPEAKER_00And reservations. I I I don't think I've heard it articulated it quite the way that you that you asked it. And I think that's a very a very cool way to to ask that question. Um, I think a lot of people ask they ask it differently, and but they ask it in a way that doesn't show a lot of I'm gonna hedge a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00But I think it's absolutely perfect. And a great question to ask is what reservations do you have? If the any I man, I love the way that's working.
SPEAKER_01And the if any, I just want to underline that because asking just what reservations assumes there are reservations, and you don't necessarily want to plant that seed. Yeah. What if any reservations do you have that I can speak to opens it up so that they're like, do I even have any reservations? Well, actually, I'm curious about this. Or no, I'm good. You answered everything I needed. And that gives you a little bit of peace of mind exiting the interview as well. Um, one thing I did want to also talk about is almost always you're gonna get the question, tell me about yourself. Tell me about yourself. This is not, like you said earlier, this is not the bibliography of everything you've ever done in your life. I don't need to know if you're married, what religion you are, if you have kids. That's not what I'm asking. What I'm actually asking is why are you the right person for the job? So you have a matter of seconds to establish and a first impression. And if you practice and prepare any question, that's the question to have locked in. Who are you? Why are you the right person? Why this organization, what interests you about this organization in this role, that's what you're answering. Not I'm a mom and I'm and I have kids and I've worked in this space for so long and I have this education. If that's relevant to the role, it's relevant to the answer. But the real question is why you it is your elevator pitch. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like that is that is your time to hook them. Because like I said, every answer and every question after that should be able to point back to how you were able to answer the tell me about yourself question.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00It's your main, it's your main idea, right? And everything else flows from that.
SPEAKER_01Things just popped into my mind. One is more often than not, interviews have stages to them. The further along you get in your career, you're not just gonna have a single interview. After every interview, like we said earlier, send a thank you email. Be genuine, be specific, use their name, thank you for their time, tell them about what you're excited about being able to contribute and send that pretty quickly after because people move on. You they may have six interviews that day. And if you're the only person who sends a thank you note, that's just one little bit more where they see who you are and how you operate. And simultaneously, if you have a um like a case that you have to do or some sort of work sample that you have to give, don't wait till the last minute to send it over. If they say we want this in 24 hours, we want this in three business days, prioritize getting that done. You may have to turn around and go right back to work or go pick up the kids or what it is, whatever may be on your plate. But don't wait till the last minute because they want to know that you're going to prioritize them through this process rather than oh, you were sort of a last minute thought. I got it in the 11th hour.
SPEAKER_00A sense of urgency. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Like I said, so yeah, it doesn't have to be I finished the interview and I did it immediately. You want to provide a good quality of work. You want to show that you thought about it, you invested time in it. And some projects, admittedly, are hefty. They're not something you can crank out in 20 minutes. It might be a four-hour project, but get it done in a timely manner to show them that you can get things done in a timely manner.
SPEAKER_00I think those are two again, two very great points. I the and it all just comes back to that. Can you translate that one? I care about this, I'm prioritizing this, and I have a sense of urgency around it. When you give me a task, I am going to do what is necessary to make sure it's taken care of.
SPEAKER_02Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Because if you're willing to let your I need this job wait to the last minute, then what else are you going to wait till the last minute?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, we took everyone through network, well, the the job search, networking, resume prep, and interviewing and post-interview actions. What if anything else do we need to share?
SPEAKER_00There's we've hit a ton of stuff already. Um, one of the things that I want to hit on really quickly is managing rejection because that's going to happen. And I don't want to hide from it just because it's hard, but everyone's going to get rejected rejected. There's no position in a hierarchy that someone has not got rejected for, right? So once everybody gets rejected. And there are a ton of reasons why someone gets rejected. There have been periods where sometimes I've seen this, like sometimes the role just changes, it's evolved. And now that's what we thought we were initially looking for. We're not looking for anymore, right? It's our job to communicate that to you in a decent way, or it's our obligation to. We're not forced to, but we we have a we should have a personal responsibility to communicate that to you. Uh, it also could be that when the role changed, you still were able to fit that role. So don't let that just be a outlier. Um, budgets change. This is the one I see most often, where the situation changed for our budget between when the job search started and between now. That's probably in my history when we have had to turn someone down for a role that we really liked. It was because of budget. And I will go ahead and tell you right now that when we say, you know, when we reach out to you and let you know you didn't get it, we're not going to tell you it's because there wasn't enough money. And lastly, I'll say upskill. While you are looking for jobs, be it because you are needing one or because you're just wanting to make a career change or a job change, continue to upskill. There is, I've used Coursera, uh, which I really, really enjoy. Um, I know there are industry certifications you can get, books, podcasts, um, not to toot our horn, but like, you know, but again, like, and there's a lot of great books out there that you can read. I everyone needs to feel like they have a purpose. One of the things that in between me starting um certain jobs is I'll do volunteer work. One, I think volunteer work is something that's really good to put on a resume, um, if you have room for it. And two, I think we have an innate desire to have a purpose and being able to continue to work on things and do something that feels like they're having a tangible result is something that's really going to help manage some of that rejection as well and is an upskill.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. One thing that came to mind is you mentioned the managing rejection. I think there are two reasons to reach out if you should you receive a rejection. And admittedly, sometimes these are handled through the applicant tracking system, the ATS. So you may not get a response. But if you are actively looking to learn, what could I do? How could I differentiate? What do you need so that I can learn to improve going forward is one. And then two, I'm actually thinking about one of my professors. He applied for a job, checked every box, actually checked every box, but there had been a mistake somewhere in the system that booted him out. And so it was just like, hey, I'm just curious, what caused for me to fall out of the process? And then they looked at it and they said, Oh, actually, that shouldn't have happened, and put him back in.
SPEAKER_02Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_01And so there are opportunities. If you really do think there's a discrepancy between the process and what you bring to the table, you can reach out and ask, and you never know. That may just be what gets their attention and they realize, oh, that that was a mistake.
SPEAKER_00Be your own best advocate, right? You're like, hey, wait a second. Like, I know what I can do. Let's look at this again. What was the what was the issue here? The two things I would say for a close, if I could encourage our listeners in any specific way, is there are two words I want you to leave with persistence and professionalism. Have persistence, don't give up. You may not even be in a position where you can, but don't give up. Be persistent, but do not jeopardize your professionalism at that cost of persistence. Maintain both. Stay at it, don't give up, but stay professional throughout the whole process. Stay courteous throughout the whole process. Even at your most desperate, even your there's a responsibility to continue to be courteous, professional, be a good person throughout all of it. It matters and it's going to show through.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And good luck.
SPEAKER_00Good luck.
SPEAKER_01And good luck. All right.