591: The Ache for More - Figuring Out What You Truly Want with Katie Pulsifer

There are seasons in life when everything looks fine, but doesn’t feel quite right. It's not that you're ungrateful or that anything's necessarily wrong, but something inside of you keeps saying there's more. 

Today's guest, Katie Pulsifer, is a master certified life coach and creator of the Golden Coaching Certification. With over 13 years of experience, Katie has trained thousands of coaches and guided high-achieving women out of overwhelm and people pleasing and into clarity, self-trust, and purpose. 

We're talking about that ache for more, why so many women feel stuck even when life looks good on the outside, and how we've gotten so practiced at knowing what everyone else needs that we've lost touch with what we want. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The ache for more and what it actually feels like
• Signs you're stuck even when life looks good on paper
• The guilt passed down through generations
• Questioning what you've always considered "normal"
• Katie's own story of rebuilding a life that reflects who she actually is
• Reclaiming self-trust, your voice, and your purpose

Resources from this episode

Golden Life Coaching Certification — Katie's heart-led coach certification program, built on 13+ years of coaching and training thousands of coaches: 

Clarity Session — If this conversation hit home, this is the next right step. It's a casual conversation with me to figure out your next gutsy move. 

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Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;09
Unknown
What does gutsy mean to you? Oh my gosh. I sat with this question for a while. I love it so much. It's my favorite part of your podcast and I listen so I think in this moment, since that is schematically what we've been talking about. Gutsy to me is being, in the paradox of my desires.

00;00;22;11 - 00;00;48;14
Unknown
So what I mean by this is this desire for freedom and discipline at the same time. And how paradoxical those are. But I want both and how to like lean into the friction or I am trying to lift heavy things and be stronger and I have a really soft gushy belly because I've had a hysterectomy and nothing looks the same in the middle of my body anymore, right?

00;00;48;16 - 00;01;23;18
Unknown
So it's like strong muscles, soft belly, or, fiercely wanting to belong and then craving my independence and instead of, like one or the other. So both I desire both. How do I live in that, in that friction? The paradox of those two things. So that feels super gutsy to me right now. Welcome to The Gutsy Podcast, the show where you learn how to own what you actually want and shift the mind chunk that's been holding you back.

00;01;23;20 - 00;01;48;01
Unknown
I'm Laura, keynote speaker, coach, and your guide to help you get clarity, build confidence, and make the gutsy moves that change your life. Each week, I'm going to help you simplify things by teaching you how to get out of your head while stepping into action. This way, you can achieve all those life shifts that you've been overthinking. Your desire that drives you but gutsy.

00;01;48;04 - 00;01;55;14
Unknown
That's what gets it done.

00;01;55;17 - 00;02;20;08
Unknown
There are seasons in life when everything looks fine, right? Like you've built the good life. Maybe even a great one. But there's still this quiet feeling that you can't quite shake. It's not that you're ungrateful or that anything is necessarily wrong, but something inside of you keeps saying there's something else. There's more. But the tricky part is that more isn't always a new job, a new relationship, or a big life change.

00;02;20;10 - 00;02;48;23
Unknown
Sometimes it's simply a signal, an invitation to stop long enough to ask yourself a question that so many women have forgotten how to answer. And that is, what do I actually want? In today's conversation, I'm joined by Katie Pulsifer, and we're talking about that ache for more. Why so many women feel stuck, even when life looks good on the outside, and how we've become so practiced and knowing what everyone else's needs are that we've lost touch with what we want.

00;02;48;25 - 00;03;10;08
Unknown
We dig into the stories that our brain tells us, the guilt that's been passed down through generations, the courage it takes to question what you've always considered to be normal, and why the smallest moments of honesty with yourself can completely change the direction of your life. If you've been feeling like something has shifted, I can feel that moving inside of me, but I can't quite put words to it yet.

00;03;10;12 - 00;03;37;06
Unknown
This conversation is for you. Katie is a master certified Life Coach and creator of the Golden Coaching Certification, supporting women who have outgrown the lives they once built and are ready for something more aligned. With over 13 years of experience, including five years as an executive leader at the Life Coach School, Katie has trained thousands of coaches and guided high achieving women to move on from overwhelm and people pleasing and to clarity, self-trust and purpose.

00;03;37;09 - 00;03;56;26
Unknown
Through her coaching and certification program, she helps women reclaim their voice and build the lives that truly feel like their own. One of the things that Katie and I dig into is the signal of the stuckness. Like, how do you know when you're feeling that ache? Like, what does that actually look and feel like in your life? One of the ones that she shared with me, I didn't want to go to work anymore.

00;03;56;28 - 00;04;20;29
Unknown
Let's get into it. Hello, Katie. Welcome to the Gutsy Podcast. Hi. How are you? I'm fabulous. Now that I'm talking to you. Oh, I'm so excited for this conversation. Oh. Me too. This is this is a good one. We're talking about that ache for more. Right. And specifically in this part of life where things have transitioned, your role and responsibilities have changed.

00;04;20;29 - 00;04;44;00
Unknown
You're starting to see things from a new angle. I really love this. This conversation will dig into this more in a little bit, but like, oh, I built this amazing life and I should be grateful for it. But what is what's going on, right? I'm curious, did you have this moment? Oh, yes. Yes. I wanted to hear your version of this story, and I keep having this moment.

00;04;44;06 - 00;05;17;16
Unknown
I don't think it's just like a one time thing. I mean, I've had it when I've grown, when I grew restless in marriage number one. And it. No longer was a relationship that I felt brought out the best in me. I felt small and, quiet in that marriage. I also felt it when the corporate career that I had strived for forever and ever and ever and got, you know, far up and had the big team.

00;05;17;16 - 00;05;39;21
Unknown
And all of a sudden I didn't want to go to work anymore, you know, and, and there little ways that I still have it, you know, as I, make peace with a body that is in my mid to late 50s that is changing every single day. And there's an ache for like, okay, what is this body supposed to do now?

00;05;39;22 - 00;06;06;08
Unknown
So I think it's a thing that we can confront often. And unfortunately we a lot of times as women make it mean something's wrong or we often don't have time to really dig in and get at what the signal is, what the ache is trying to tell us. So it's like, nope, I'll take care of that later. You know, I'll just I'll get to it some time.

00;06;06;10 - 00;06;31;02
Unknown
And I just think it's a beautiful, beautiful messenger that is coming from within that's inviting us to pay attention. Yeah. Yeah. You said exactly where I wanted to go next with this, which is the signal. Right. Because it's easy to dismiss. It's easy to. I'll, I'll deal with that later. I'm kind of curious in your journey and maybe even some of the, the women that you've worked with.

00;06;31;05 - 00;06;55;19
Unknown
What are some of the that kind of like disruption underneath that, you know, kind of grumbling, that feeling that pull that, that, that signal. What does that often sound, look or feel like when you know that something something is trying to tell you something? Yes. So I think many women, men also probably I don't tend to work with this many men, but.

00;06;55;19 - 00;07;20;04
Unknown
So I don't want to weave them out. I'm not meaning to purposefully, but I think it's. We can label it as stuckness often. I think that's probably the most familiar. There's like, I know what I want to do, but I kind of can't quite get out of my own way or get going, or I do get going a bit, but I can't make any real progress.

00;07;20;06 - 00;07;59;03
Unknown
There's a the thing that I'm seeing so much right now is I know that I want something, I just feel like I can't articulate it. I don't have the language for it. I don't have the words, or maybe I haven't ever seen anyone else do it. So I don't believe it's possible. So those are some of the most common ways, I think that, there's, there is a signal alive within us that we're trying to make sense of, that we might use the language of stuckness or I want something, but I don't know how to talk about it.

00;07;59;06 - 00;08;16;23
Unknown
I don't know that I'm allowed to talk about it. That's a big one. I don't know that I'm allowed to talk about it. Yeah. And especially I feel like that really pairs with, you know, I, I haven't seen anybody else in my world do this or I or no one else has done this ahead of me for me to talk to or model.

00;08;16;23 - 00;08;40;04
Unknown
So what are your thoughts around when you're feeling this kind of disruption? You've not seen anybody do it. You're not sure if you can talk about it. So then you just kind of stay in your own head. Where what do we do with that? Yeah. Well, I think the most important thing that we have to understand is, our brains and our human brains that are.

00;08;40;06 - 00;09;04;29
Unknown
I mean, let's be blunt, lying to us all day long. Yeah, all day long. They do not care about our happiness. They do not care about our fulfillment. They do not care about our biggest goals and ambitions. They love the life as they know it today. And they love it even more. If that life looks like what it did last month or last year.

00;09;05;01 - 00;09;31;15
Unknown
So they are working against us all the time. So the first thing that I would love your listeners to remember is that just because the brain comes up with, well, no one's done it in your family before, or I don't think that's possible for you. Or what if it doesn't work out to be incredibly suspicious of that answer because it is likely a lie.

00;09;31;17 - 00;09;56;14
Unknown
It likely has zero to do with reality and 100% to do with the brain wanting your life to stay exactly the same. And that's not because it doesn't. The brain is so interesting. It only knows what it knows. Yes. Yeah. So you know it wanting to look like it doesn't want change because it's only familiar with what it knows up until this point.

00;09;56;16 - 00;10;28;22
Unknown
Yeah. And so when you go to make this change or you start even considering what this shift might look like, it looks like a threat to your brain. Not because it's a bad idea now because you couldn't, can't and shouldn't do it, but because your brain's not familiar with it. So therefore it starts freaking out. Yes, exactly. A teacher of mine said, your brain is lazy and loyal, and it's such a good way to such a good way to sum it up, because it's lazy and defaults to what it knows, and it's loyal to what's familiar.

00;10;28;23 - 00;10;59;03
Unknown
So it's. I don't think it means to work against you, but it's often working against you and what you most want. And so yeah, questioning it, being a little suspicious, a little curious, like where did that idea come from? What if that's not true? That's like a great follow up question. Like, what if my brain's perspective isn't correct here just to look like kind of like, I don't know, throw a wrench in things, you know?

00;10;59;05 - 00;11;19;00
Unknown
Well, I mean, that's a powerful moment in its own when you're like, I mean, could there be an alternative here? You know, just because I'm thinking it doesn't mean that it's real and true. Yes. Let me let me play my own devil's advocate here and challenge myself on this. You you also mentioned about not being able to articulate it right.

00;11;19;00 - 00;11;36;14
Unknown
Like there's this feeling, there's this description, there's this like unease and I, and I know that a lot of women in this space, it's like something feels off or not quite right. But I can't put my finger on what it is. How how do you dig in to start figuring out what this feeling is and what it's telling you.

00;11;36;17 - 00;12;04;05
Unknown
Yeah. Well I always love to begin with a heaping dose of self empathy and compassion. And it it's we often think, well if I can articulate it, something's wrong with me. Or my favorite thing ever was always if I can't articulate it, that must mean I'm not smart, because my brain was always looking for the evidence that I'm not as smart as everyone else, which is total bullshit, I realize.

00;12;04;05 - 00;12;45;02
Unknown
But I still like my brain will default there so fast and I have to still catch it. And so there's some patterning often that will be running behind the scenes that will block us from our knowledge and block us from our wisdom. Or to be honest, I think we're just out of practice. I mean, we are so good at knowing kids best friend's birthday and what they want, but when it comes to what we want, we're often like silencing that out or tucking it away because there are so many other things to track and be responsible for.

00;12;45;04 - 00;13;14;26
Unknown
So often if we start with empathy and we start with self-compassion, of course it's hard to know what I want. Of course, it's hard to know how to articulate it, because my brain is filled with what everyone else wants. My brain prioritizes everyone else's needs. So I think if we can meet ourselves there with, tremendous like, like, I love to say, seeing, hearing and understanding ourselves.

00;13;14;26 - 00;13;42;11
Unknown
Like, if we can just be there in that moment of partnership, not making ourselves wrong, then we will begin to be able to find those answers. What does that look like in the moment. Okay. So if you are searching around inside of you for like what is it that I want, I don't know. And you're so used to like tamping it down, shutting it down, postponing figuring it out.

00;13;42;13 - 00;14;06;09
Unknown
I am a big fan of like going for a walk, taking myself for a walk. Spending time with myself and trying to tune out. I mean, even if it's five minutes, five minutes is better than nothing. But can you spend five minutes of uninterrupted time with yourself? Can you get yourself outside even without a podcast, without social media in your hand, even without a journal?

00;14;06;10 - 00;14;34;22
Unknown
But could you just sit and look at something outside, or move your body outside and sit with the question, what do I want? What do I even want in this moment? It might just be to enjoy the sound of the birds, or to not think about the next four hours of appointments on my calendar. The smallest micro practices of like meeting yourself to ask that question and hear the answer.

00;14;34;23 - 00;15;02;05
Unknown
You will begin to get better at it with practice. Yeah. That listen outside time. Underrated. Away from technology. Double. Underrated. Yes. And you put those two things together. You can feel like a whole new woman right. In ten minutes or less. Right. Right. And what is like breaking my heart a bit right now is like when we think I'll just go to, AI and I'll.

00;15;02;11 - 00;15;30;07
Unknown
I'll have AI help me figure out what I want. I use AI to help me build things that I do not know how to build. But like anything that we're doing that disconnects us even further from ourselves. Where we outsource our knowledge of ourselves to something else or someone else. Wow. I just I want everyone to, like, really reconsider what that is doing to us.

00;15;30;12 - 00;15;54;29
Unknown
It's pulling us farther away from ourselves. I couldn't agree more. I found myself, I, I started to notice, you know, when I was using AI, I use it, you know, like you said, figuring things out that I don't know. Oh, yeah. All that kind of techie stuff that blah. But I notice I started kind of outsourcing my thoughts and my ideas and, you know, shot is really great at, you know, Pat and you on the back and giving you a high five.

00;15;54;29 - 00;16;25;08
Unknown
And, you know, that's a very slippery slope because it feels good to be celebrated. And I don't know, I just had this jarring moment where I was like, Laura, the more you use this, the more disconnected you are with your own work, with your own message, and with your own ideas. And it's like I just started noticing the depth of my knowledge, started to feel a little bit shallow, and I was like, and we're just kind of in the beginning of this.

00;16;25;09 - 00;16;47;16
Unknown
I was like, no, no, that was a hard, hard pass for me. I was like, I want to, I want to feel it all. I want to explore it all. Yes, I can use that to figure out some, you know, in-between pieces. But like you said, that outsourcing of your thoughts, your ideas, your plans, paired with the validation that it gives me, I can see this being being an issue.

00;16;47;19 - 00;17;09;25
Unknown
Oh, I, I just did this. I just did like, a major audit myself of, like, even business gurus and mentors and I and all the places that I was outsourcing because I literally I had this image that I was becoming a copy of, a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of myself.

00;17;09;28 - 00;17;31;09
Unknown
And I was like, oh, I don't know whether that is me or that sounds like me, or that sounds like maybe I something I might say someday in the future. I was like, okay, enough, enough, enough. I've got to like, reconnect to me. What do I want? What am I thinking? What am I feeling, what do I have to say?

00;17;31;11 - 00;17;59;16
Unknown
And you know, the truth is that often that's uncomfortable. And you named it beautifully when you said that affirmation that it gives that high five, that approval that's built into all of this stuff. We crave that. But sometimes, like a coach or a mentor or a friend, that we have a great, like accountability relationship with can replace that as we're working through, hey, I think I want this thing.

00;17;59;16 - 00;18;32;18
Unknown
I feel this ache. I think I want this thing. Help me say it out loud, create safety and space for me to acknowledge it. And let me see if this is real versus trying to sort it out with I. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Good sidebar conversation there. I thought that we needed to have today. Yeah, totally. So in this last portion, you were talking about the this this gargantuan question that is just so tiny but feels like the world sometimes, which is, what do I want?

00;18;32;20 - 00;18;58;08
Unknown
Yeah, it's a very simple question that's incredibly complex. And I know for a lot of women it's like, I have no idea, no one's ever asked me that before. I've not been able to slow down long enough to even think about that. Where do you recommend or how do you recommend starting to explore that, especially for the women, that what they want has been on the backburner for a long, long time?

00;18;58;11 - 00;19;21;26
Unknown
Yeah. So again I think so important to normalize that. Not having an answer to that question is totally fine. It won't you won't not have an answer to that question forever. But if you are asking yourself if you're listening and you're and you're asking yourself, what do I want? And you find nothing. It's okay. It is absolutely 100% okay.

00;19;21;27 - 00;19;47;00
Unknown
You are doing everything right, and your brain is habituated to not being able to find an answer to that question. Your brain is habituated to knowing what everyone else is want, what everyone else is want, what everyone else wants. There we go. And that's okay. So I think normalizing is is really, really, really important. We talked about getting outside.

00;19;47;00 - 00;20;14;24
Unknown
Connecting with nature I think is, really inspirational. My other favorite thing that I love to give clients to do is what I call a joy list. And it's just a blank piece of paper or a journal and tapping into your senses. Our senses are so wise. So a question like, what do I love to eat? What do I love to smell, hear, taste, feel?

00;20;14;26 - 00;20;45;14
Unknown
Sometimes that activates the most incredible memories that I did this exercise back in 2014 when I was like at an absolute midlife crossroads, and I stared at a blank piece of paper for 45 minutes in a restaurant in New York City, not having a freaking clue what I wanted. And after 45 minutes and a big glass of wine, the first thing that came out was a juicy peach.

00;20;45;16 - 00;21;15;29
Unknown
And from there it was like, oh, and I love sunshine on my shoulders and I love the sound of applause in an auditorium. Oh I haven't been to a concert lately. Wow. Who's you know. And then my brain just it couldn't stop adding to that list. But I had to get, I mean, more of my body involved in the answer instead of my brain, because my brain was coming up with nothing that makes sense the way I'm explaining it.

00;21;16;01 - 00;21;29;18
Unknown
Oh, absolutely. Because it's kind of like, I don't know, sometimes, you know, someone will come up to me and they're like, oh, what are you working on? And all of a sudden my brain goes blank and I'm like, I have no idea. I, I mean, I've got 40 things happening, but I couldn't tell you one of them right now.

00;21;29;20 - 00;21;55;15
Unknown
So I think it's kind of that same situation where you sit down and you're like, okay, brain, I'm here and I'm ready. Let's do this. Your brain's like, All right. Wow. What, what what are we going to like wine and dine this first. Like. Yeah I love I love getting the senses involved. I think that's a really fun way to just to me this is a, this is an exercise of remembering.

00;21;55;18 - 00;22;16;28
Unknown
Yes. So sometimes when we think about what we want we're thinking about the future which is fantastic. But I like what you just shared is remembering what you already want. Yes. Remembering the things that already bring you joy or make you happy, or that you've been craving because that's already been in your orbit. That's your brain health context around that.

00;22;17;01 - 00;22;45;09
Unknown
Right. Right. And who knows where it will lead. Like for me, all of a sudden I was like, I'm not listening to music enough. I'm not going to concerts enough. And then boom, all of a sudden I make that a priority in my life. Changed everything for me. And so I think activating from the past, but also allowing it to inspire and guide what you might be interested now in life is really, really fun.

00;22;45;11 - 00;23;06;25
Unknown
Well, and it's this is such a muscle building exercise. It's it's giving yourself permission that you don't need, but need to remind yourself that you have. Yes. And and, you know, going to a concert or going to a play or going to a nice restaurant or going to the market and getting a juicy peach, you know, when you do the things that you remember that you already like?

00;23;06;27 - 00;23;27;01
Unknown
I don't know, I just feel like it reactivates you and it's like, oh, I forgot what it felt like to feel good. Yes. Or to even say what I want that that concert I want to go to or that trip I want to take or that book I want to read, like what I want matters. And then we begin retraining the brain.

00;23;27;07 - 00;23;49;21
Unknown
Hey, I get to slot in on the calendar today. I get to make plans around me. I get to come back to this joy list and check it out and see, you know what? Have I not reengaged in lately and make that a priority again. So yeah. And then the brain has a really hard time ignoring you.

00;23;49;24 - 00;24;10;08
Unknown
I am working my ass off. Why am I still struggling? This is part of a conversation that I had with a woman that is about to join or align, much like the other women inside of or Alliance. She has had a really successful first round of her business. All the women in the space have had a successful first go, whether that's in their career within corporate or the first round of their business.

00;24;10;15 - 00;24;33;06
Unknown
But then something happened. Something shifted. They got caught into a framework. They wanted to go bigger. They wanted to make some changes, but realize, hey, this shit is not getting me to where I want to be in. This particular woman is realizing that, hey, hustling, running my shit into the ground, I cannot create from that. There's more work that I want to do, but not this way.

00;24;33;08 - 00;24;48;00
Unknown
She's like, Laura, I just need you to help me build this thing. Help me move in the right direction, help me to do this my way. And that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to ditch all the shit that she was told us she has to do. We're going to get a really solid foundation with her.

00;24;48;00 - 00;25;03;02
Unknown
Systems that are process in place. And there's a few big chunky bits of our business that we're going to temporarily put on pause so that we can build a stronger foundation for the long term. If you're standing there with your head on your hand saying, oh my God, are you talking about me? Like, how did you get inside my brain?

00;25;03;03 - 00;25;22;15
Unknown
Then let's jump on a clarity session. I tend to rock people's worlds when they realize how deeply we go and how quickly we go there. But I can tell you right now, we pinpoint the problem and then we get a solution. Not only does she know what we're about to do, she's ready to do it. Go to Laura ora.com/clarity.

00;25;22;18 - 00;25;36;06
Unknown
Grab one of those spots. Let's get the ship moving for you.

00;25;36;08 - 00;25;58;29
Unknown
As it does. Because now now it's now it's in the forefront. It's not tucked away in a drawer somewhere. Yeah, it's in the forefront. One other thing that you you mentioned earlier that I really loved, and I talk about this in my keynote is what do I want in this moment. Such a powerful way to just reengage.

00;25;59;01 - 00;26;22;20
Unknown
Moment by moment. Like we're not trying to figure out a whole path. We're not trying to like, you know, solve the puzzle. But like when you're at a restaurant, you know, I give the example of, you know, you're sitting around a table with all your coworkers or, you know, fellow business women or your friends, even, and everyone's ordering the grilled chicken Caesar salad, and it gets to you and you feel obligated to get the grilled chicken Caesar salad because you don't want to be that one weird one, right?

00;26;22;26 - 00;26;48;00
Unknown
But your body's like, I really want a burger. Like, today is the day. I really want a burger. And when you ask yourself, what do I actually want in this moment? And you give yourself the permission to order the burger one, not only are you going to feel a lot better, but I can almost guarantee you someone else at that table is going to raise their hand and be like, oh, actually, I'd like to change something and they're going to get something that they want to.

00;26;48;02 - 00;27;11;24
Unknown
And I think that that's something really powerful with women is sometimes we need just to see someone else leading by example or to give us borrowed permission. Yes, yes, that's so beautifully said. I think that helps a great deal. I think also, we don't talk about this enough as learning how to sit in the discomfort of going against the group.

00;27;11;24 - 00;27;36;27
Unknown
Right. Learning how to be okay with ourselves. It's one thing to say, this is what I want. And then there's the excitement of the articulation of that, putting it into the world, breathing life into it, followed usually by oh shit, what did I just do? What are they going to think of me? Are they going to leave me out, or are they going to talk about me behind my back?

00;27;36;28 - 00;28;03;08
Unknown
You know, all this stuff that we do whenever we claim something or say what we want or take up space. And so it's the two step thing here. It's the one getting good at saying it. And then the most important part, I think, is like being with ourselves through that journey, which is often super uncomfortable. Yeah. Like how do you sit with that, with that discomfort?

00;28;03;08 - 00;28;24;07
Unknown
What do you do in that space when your brain starts going a mile, you know, a hundred miles an hour? Yeah. Well, I am going to sound like a broken record. I apologize, but it is like normalizing that experience. It's usually that simple. Oh, right. This is the part where I feel super uncomfortable. This is the part where I did the brave thing, and now I'm feeling restless.

00;28;24;07 - 00;28;50;11
Unknown
I'm feeling unsettled. I'm feeling untethered. Yes, that's the emotion. My body is in. I can be in this experience. It's worth it to take the brave step. It doesn't feel amazing. I'm vibrating. I'm shaking. I'm. You know, I'm bouncing in my seat. It doesn't feel great, but this is always the part that comes next and it will eventually pass.

00;28;50;13 - 00;29;17;12
Unknown
Right. Like because anytime we break the rhythm that the brain is in and we do something different, we go off roading, we go off script. There is that follow up of discomfort every single time. Every time. We're never going to get around that discomfort part. So the more we can prepare for it, meet ourselves there with a heaping amount of grace and normalization, the easier we make it.

00;29;17;12 - 00;29;44;20
Unknown
Instead of oh my God, that means I said the wrong thing and that means at all. Instead of going immediately to I messed up, right? Right. Instead, we go immediately to this is part of the process. Yeah. And I part I wasn't I wasn't happy with what was before. Right. Or I've outgrown something that was before. The only way to feel better is to walk through this discomfort.

00;29;44;22 - 00;30;06;27
Unknown
Yes. I wish we could just like, you know bibbidi-bobbidi-boo and you know, the changes are made. I mean, we would all be millionaires, right, if that were the case. But that's just not how things work. So it is it is honoring that space of like, oh, I'm feeling those sensations I'm noticing in my body. I can feel myself getting weird, you know.

00;30;06;29 - 00;30;30;22
Unknown
And it's okay. Let me just let this ride out instead of making it mean something about me. Yes. Yes, exactly. The other thing that usually comes in this space is our good old friend guilt. We can't end this conversation today without talking about guilt. Because if there's one thing I mean women are incredible at everything, right.

00;30;30;22 - 00;30;50;03
Unknown
But if there's one thing that the female brain is exceptional at it's feeling guilty. Like when we're make it and we're making a change or you're disrupting a pattern or you're, you know you talked about, you know, not wanting to go to your corporate job anymore and leaving that or making changes in your marriage like we're, we're causing a ripple effect.

00;30;50;06 - 00;31;18;23
Unknown
Right. And then the guilt sets in. Talk to me about that space. Yes. Well I think guilt is something that women have been socialized and taught to feel. I give us I it's not our fault that we feel guilty. We have inherited guilt as an acceptable way to Oh, well, let's call it this. Like a lens through which we need to see our lives.

00;31;18;23 - 00;31;45;16
Unknown
It's like we're supposed to. It's like what we are supposed to do. Someone created that before us. Not us. Someone else created that. And so I think that we accept it as part of the deal. I was coaching, a woman. In fact, the other day and no less than five times in the conversation she said, but I just feel so guilty.

00;31;45;18 - 00;32;16;17
Unknown
And she didn't even hear herself say it. And so finally, it was like, I'm just going to pause you there, and I'm going to point out the five times you said, I feel so guilty, and I really want to dig in. What exactly do you mean when you say that? It and it turned out to just be a throwaway expression that had no real meaning, and she didn't even know what that emotion felt like in her body.

00;32;16;20 - 00;32;47;28
Unknown
But it was just on autopilot. It was just a story. And so I think that definitely happens a lot. And I think that we have the opportunity to consider, like, we've inherited this and we no longer have to carry it any longer. What do you think about that? I mean, I think that's liberating. I think the immediate then question is how right.

00;32;48;00 - 00;33;17;26
Unknown
How do we let go of something that's been ingrained in us for centuries. I mean, if we're being honest. Yeah. I mean exactly that energy has been passed down from century to century, decade to decade, you know, family member to family member. Yes. And then we've got society involved in all that. Yes. So how do we how do we start to notice when we're feeling guilty and how do we give ourselves that permission instead of going down that spiral?

00;33;17;29 - 00;33;35;21
Unknown
Right. So like, with anything, amazing questions. Our, our best friend here. So our brain cannot resist an open ended question.

00;33;35;24 - 00;34;07;02
Unknown
And so things like, if I didn't choose to feel guilty, what else would I want to feel here if I didn't? Or maybe choose is too far of a stretch. So maybe if I didn't have to feel guilty, what would I like this experience to be instead? So those are brilliant coaching questions that just get your brain kind of curious about other possibilities.

00;34;07;04 - 00;34;37;24
Unknown
And even saying like, I am not choosing guilt it and thinking of guilt as a choice, not as a, prerequisite or mandatory. The whole mom guilt thing. I'm not sure. I'm sorry. I don't know whether you're a mom or not, so I am, Okay, so, but that whole thing of, like, are you going to go back to work and, you know, the.

00;34;37;27 - 00;35;03;00
Unknown
Oh, are you feeling so guilty going back to work? And it was like, no, like even just breaking up with the idea that even though lots of people, lots of moms before me have thought that is the way I'm supposed to feel guilty when I go to work, they were doing the best they could. I just don't think I'm going to inherit that.

00;35;03;00 - 00;35;28;05
Unknown
For me, it doesn't mean we don't have moments of feeling guilty, but to have it be our overall experience, because essentially what we're saying is, oh, you're doing it wrong. It's that reinforcement of you're not doing it the way that you're supposed to do it. Yeah, well, we have to we have to like we have to for the sake of our, for all women everywhere.

00;35;28;05 - 00;35;49;20
Unknown
We have to break this cycle. Yeah, well, I hadn't realized that until what you just said it. It has been ingrained as unnatural. Part of the process. Yes, we've been programed to believe that. Okay. And this is the point where I feel guilty. Yes. We're not saying that in so many words. Of course, but that that's what we've been taught.

00;35;49;20 - 00;36;12;23
Unknown
Like, oh, I'm making a change now I feel guilty. Oh, I'm doing something that I want to do now. I feel guilty, I want to go back to work, I feel guilty, I want to leave this work, I feel guilty. It's like, well, why? Why? Right. Because these changes, more often than not, are for something better. To better yourself.

00;36;12;23 - 00;36;43;15
Unknown
Which then betters the people around you. Like I mean it's a domino effect in the right direction this time. Exactly. So why do I feel guilty about bettering ourselves which then ultimately betters the people in our lives. Right. Right. Well, dangerous to want what you want. Dangerous to have what you want. Dangerous to take up space. Dangerous to, say, I want to be a mother and I want to work, I want both, I get to have both.

00;36;43;17 - 00;37;18;07
Unknown
Or I get to make these decisions. And those decisions. And one isn't at the expense of the other. I mean, there's so much here to challenge, but it it's I mean, I think also just being incredibly gracious about where we've received these messages and like we said, passed down from mothers before us and grandmothers and, you know, it's like always thinking, oh, they were doing the best they possibly could with what they had to work with at the time.

00;37;18;09 - 00;37;45;04
Unknown
Setting me up for success in their best way possible. And I don't know that I'm going to carry this part forward. I don't know that I'm going to automatically adopt this belief because it feels terrible, right? And going to work and being a mom is hard enough without layering all this unnecessary suffering on top of it, of like, I'm supposed to fit into some like, club of guilty women.

00;37;45;06 - 00;38;10;13
Unknown
I know that's like, not a thing. Oh, screw that club. No. Yeah, let's dismantle that club. Because that's. Yeah, it feels like mean girl stuff and. Yeah. And the mean girl is all of our own individual brains being mean to ourselves. Exactly. Exactly. You know, Katie, I think the through line that I've caught on to in this whole conversation today is questioning the norms.

00;38;10;16 - 00;38;34;12
Unknown
This is this is, this is a, a challenge of challenging. Yes. Right. It is stopping in the moments instead of going with what you've always known or always felt or, you know, I've been subscribed to for a long time and just creating some space in between things. To hear your own self, your own actual voice versus all of the voices that have been implanted.

00;38;34;14 - 00;38;59;26
Unknown
Yes. Yes. And it's hard to do in the moment. So for those who are newer to this process of challenging the challenges, I think, you know, even if it's a brief reflection at the end of the day, what did I say today on autopilot that maybe misrepresented me? Like when I said, oh, I feel so guilty, it just slipped out.

00;38;59;28 - 00;39;19;17
Unknown
Did I really mean that? And would I choose to say that about my situation again tomorrow? Like that's super valid in as we practice this more we get better catching it in the moment. But for those who are just starting, I don't even catch it in the moment half the time because my brain is always trying to screw me over too.

00;39;19;18 - 00;39;42;00
Unknown
So it's like that reflection at the end of the day, super gentle. It's like, okay, how how did I talk about myself? How did I represent myself? How accurate was I? Where did I say something that I just said to fit in but didn't really mean? Okay, all right, that's what happened. How do I want to do tomorrow?

00;39;42;03 - 00;40;09;24
Unknown
Can I make, like, a one degree change tomorrow in being more truthful, being more honest, maybe questioning that guilt is a lens that I have to see my life through. That's a perfect, beautiful, perfect way to end today's chat here today. Katie I love your energy. I love the work that you're doing. And I know that you're helping women to live a life that feels like it really belongs to them.

00;40;09;24 - 00;40;37;19
Unknown
So what is the best place to find and connect with you? My website, Katie Pulsifer coaching.com, and I have a free resource there, which is a quiz like, Getting Unstuck quiz that teases out many of the concepts we talked about today in terms of guilt and feeling selfish or not knowing what you want. I also have, a Substack newsletter that I write as well.

00;40;37;19 - 00;40;56;09
Unknown
So those are mainly the two places, and I'm a little bit on Instagram and a little bit on Facebook, but yeah, perfect. We will link your Substack and a link to the quiz in the show notes below. Thank you. And I'm curious, what does gutsy mean to you? Oh my gosh. I start with this question for a while.

00;40;56;09 - 00;41;24;13
Unknown
I love it so much. It's my favorite part of your podcast. Then I listen. So I think in this moment, since that has been what we've been talking about, gutsy to me is being, in the paradox of my desires. So what I mean by this is this desire for freedom and discipline at the same time, and how paradoxical those are.

00;41;24;13 - 00;41;55;07
Unknown
But I want both and how to like lean into the friction or I am trying to lift heavy things and be stronger. And I have a really soft gushy belly because I've had a hysterectomy and nothing looks the same in the middle of my body anymore, right? So it's like strong muscles, soft belly, or, fiercely wanting to belong and then craving my independence and instead of, like, one or the other.

00;41;55;09 - 00;42;11;04
Unknown
So both I desire both and how do I live in that, in that friction, the paradox of those two things. So that feels super gutsy to me right now.

00;42;11;06 - 00;42;42;02
Unknown
One of the things that Katie says and I'm like, fuck yes, is when she said, I rebuilt a life that reflects who I actually am, not who I was trained to be given. If that is not a rallying cry, I don't know what it is. Take this episode as the permission that you don't need, but maybe needed to hear today that you don't have to continue to push yourself to do shit the way that everyone else is talking to, and that making these bigger changes, peeling back your business, shifting something in your personal life doesn't have to be done overnight.

00;42;42;04 - 00;42;59;23
Unknown
It's all about those small, gutsy moves that add up to those bigger changes. If there's a friend or a business colleague in your world that you know you know needs to hear this message today, would you send this episode to her? The more women that we have following who they are and what they actually want to do, the better this world continues to be at.

00;42;59;25 - 00;43;07;08
Unknown
If we're not yet friends on the interwebs, come find me. My handle is at that, Laura, on all the platforms. And until I see you next time, stick out outside.