Christine Marsh - The Christine Marsh

From Being Called 'Stupid' to a Lifetime Achievement Award - Christine Marsh's Extraordinary Journey

In this inspiring episode of The Journey of Business, Richard sits down with entrepreneur, speaker, author, and model 

Christine shares a remarkable story that spans decades of breaking expectations, challenging stereotypes, and refusing to let others define her future. From being told she was "stupid" as a child and struggling with reading, to building a successful consultancy, working with organisations around the world, writing her book Flashpoint Transformation, and even stepping into the world of modelling in her 80s, her story is proof that reinvention has no age limit. 

Packed with wisdom, humour, and decades of real-world experience, this conversation is a masterclass in resilience, reinvention, and living life on your own terms.

If you've ever felt stuck, underestimated, or ready for a fresh start, this episode is for you.

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Transcript

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Christine, welcome to the podcast. Good morning. I'm delighted to be here, Richard. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you for coming on. How did your business journey start? Unintentionally. That's a good way to start. By default. Certainly. Back in the late 70s, a woman's role was very clearly defined as a homemaker, and I broke that mould. I think I'm a rebel without knowing it. I don't like having preconceived expectations on my role. I can give you an example. Please do. Going back to right the beginning, my father had ordered a son. So as a military man, he was an officer used to being obeyed. And the name, I was born in India, had to be recorded within a very short time frame by Sir Anthony Eden to recognise British citizenship. So he came with the paperwork filled out for William Richard. Now that might strike a note with you. Seriously, nothing. So they started with Amanda, Belinda, Christine will do, and Elizabeth is my grandmother's name. And it was filled in. Do you know what he said? And I'm still suffering from that wound. I don't care what anyone calls it. I'm going to call it Bill. Wow. And he did. And my mother did, my sister did, my nephew nieces. I think I was 36 before I looked in the mirror one day. And entering the business world, I thought, who is this woman? I better find out. So it's been a big adventure since then. Breaking expectations and not being limited in what I can or can't do as being stereotyped as a woman. Wow. Well, that's a great start. So how did um so how did it start business-wise? I was selling advertising space because if you couldn't type or you weren't a hairdresser or you didn't have a vocation like nursing, uh, what did women actually do? You could serve at a till um very restricted opportunities. So basically I was selling and I had invested in a range of cleaning products and went out there in my naivety, believing that people would do business with me. And I think that naivety has carried me through most of my business life. My mantra is I didn't know I couldn't, so I did it anyway. Wow, I like that. Really like that. I think more people need to hear that. Yes. Don't let other people's expectations restrict you, for goodness sake. Uh, what uh I do love when you're working with people is seeing their potential and seeing somebody who I'm only a drives me potty, to be honest. Uh, people are demeaned by their race or their the stereotyping of the human barcode. Now don't forget we like to think we're sophisticated, but we're programmed for survival. So whether I'm doing it consciously or not, I am scanning you. I'm working at male, gender, religion, age, uh, build, are you going to be a threat or are you going to be my mate or whatever it is? So we're programmed for survival, Richard, and I have to overcome a lot of prejudice and people to realise you are you and you've got unique things that you can contribute. Don't let anybody blow that spark of inspiration out. I've had some very dark places in my business career and really lost my way and thought, yeah, this is it, you know, just accept that you're not going to progress the way you want to and pick yourself up, dust yourself off. So if you're out there in the dippy bit, come out the other side. Because life's ahead. Wow. Wow, that's really brilliant. So it sounds like you've had a lot of experience with men around you in the workplace. So what how what did your career look like? Uh the career really was uh uh getting into a national company basically was just sheer gall and cheek, and I didn't know I couldn't kind of thing. So um it was when freezers were coming over from America, late 70s, and a company called Bee Jam had opened in Gloucester and in Cheltenham, and I went along, and because I had been selling space to a farmer who had a deep freeze company, we were working on that basis. I thought this is a mess. This is dreadful. So I went back and got a real piece of parchment paper because I did go to art college for one year, my father allowed that. And in old English text, I actually wrote a letter saying that I believed I could increase his sales, and all I wanted was 47 minutes of his time. It's very specific. Yeah, it's got your curiosity. It's a navel trick. If you say 45, it doesn't register, but 47, what's you on about? I like that. I'm definitely going to use that question, sorry. Well, I got the interview and I came out with a company car and three and a half months trial to say I could go out and come back with ideas that would increase your sales. And I was with them for over 12 years. Wow. I'm just taking that in now because my head's now processing that and it's it's working out all the ways I can use that. That's brilliant. Yeah, Jay. You've got to break the stereotypes. You've got to come in with that little bit. Oh, what's that about? And I saw on your face, watch you on about 47 minutes. But uh, you know, whatever ploy you can, be different, experiment, try things. Um they can only say no. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep going. That's always been my um mantra, really. Yeah, that's exactly right. They the worst thing they can say is no. And even that's not that bad. You get used to no's. In sales, you definitely have to work round it. In fact, you probably found it the hardest one is not getting a no because you're in limbo. That's worse. I'd rather have a no straight away and walk away than drag it out to So, what would be your your phrase that would switch you off then when you're trying to get a decision? What do they farm you off with, Richard? Um probably not more recently, but back in the day when I used to sell double glazing, it would um we'll have a think about that. Yeah, that's a classic. It's classic. And you come out and you think, oh, where's that left me? Nowhere, basically. Yeah, we it I think to be honest, I do the same now still. But genuinely, I genuinely am thinking about it a lot of the times. It's not a no because I can't say no. No. I'm processing. Are you? Whereas I think some people Wow, no, I'm not. You're right, Christine. You are right. Oh my god, I'm just thinking of a scenario, and it is no. Yeah. I've already decided, isn't it? We're polite, this is the problem. So we're not brought up in this country to some degree to be brutal. So we we try and soften the blow, but we mean no. And I'd much rather it was no, and then I can counteract that and get a yes. Yes. Richard, can you believe that I went in, right? This little weird woman from living in in Gloucestershire, wanting to work for a company based in Stanmore, saying she would go all over whatever, with no company car, little things like that, you know, and came out with a job. But I think if you genuinely have the interest of your client at heart, they get it. You know, if you're just on ego trips, you don't once I couldn't do that. So the key thing was the meat industry was very male uh dominated uh at the management level, definitely. So it was quite interesting. Um dealing with butchers, they're very similar to used car salesmen, actually. They're both rogues in that industry. So uh no, fascinating. But um, I sold myself is the fact I didn't know. I sold myself as the housewife with questions. Interesting. And didn't understand the deep freeze factor. I didn't understand the range. And by talking to the users, they were going from chest freezers to fridge freezers, and the market had not adjusted. So Bijan was one of the first that we managed to get smaller packs in. Uh, but you can imagine the production unit thinking, you know, what on earth she doing? And I remember the production unit, John Roberts, was told to take me down on the production floor and do whatever I told him. Well, that went down like a lead balloon. So he stood on the stair, pushed his cap back on his head, and said, What exactly do you know about meat? And I said, Not a lot, but I pay for it, so you better make certain I get the right deal. So educate me, because I've got to educate your customers of why do business with us. And uh anyway, still friends many, many years later. But I think don't be frightened of not knowing something. I think we've got to the point that unless you've got certain letters after your name or you're deemed an expert, you can easily go into blinkered vision. And uh for me, I got 360 head go swivel all round the place. Uh, but there are opportunities, but I think once you bring gender into it um and start beating a drum, I switch off. That that's not your passport to success. Interesting. So what was the next step? The next step was uh being a very hostile takeover by Iceland for Frozen Foods. Right. And that was going off at Christmas with, yeah, you know, we're bigger than they are, and coming back that their marketing campaign had been using videos, which was unheard of then. So every single shareholder had a video through their letterbox selling them the concept of you will do better, no sh no shares, no money, you will do better with your vote for us than you will with BJA. And they got 51% and they took us over. And I was one of the 30 survivors uh from that takeover. The people who ran stores, they were fine, you know, they needed them, but the head office staff was a cult, basically. They just came in and wiped it out, apart from this weird woman that was doing stuff, and everybody knew her and trusted her, basically. So two years of that transition, but I knew that once I had been not used as the wrong word, but what had been of use, um, I would get a redundancy package. So at 50, I thought, yes, start again. Use that redundancy package. You're in your prime of life, you know how to focus on objectives. So on my drive home, I arrived back to tell my lovely husband, Colin, um, I'm starting my own company called Prime Objectives. And he just rolled his high, his eyes to heaven as he did, bless him, and said, Yeah, okay. Uh, but that was scary because you gave up company car, perk, salary, health, you know, Richard, those are all things that are very valuable to anybody. And to forfeit all that, but you're self-employed. Oh, you know that jump, that leap of faith. And you no one can put that little light out. That's my my feeling. That if you genuinely want to do something, don't listen to people who tell you you can't. They can't doesn't mean you can't. I like that. So you're in the deep end? You jumped in. Yes. Where do you come up with a name? Prime objectives in the prime of life, focusing on my clients' objectives. Easy, you made that really. Do you know how hard that is to do? And you just nailed that. Did you nail that on the drive home? Yeah, yeah, just so, yeah, okay. And there it is. Wow. So what did it look like in the beginning? Prime objectives in the beginning? Frightening. No clients. Uh just knew I could help uh companies progress. Great in theory, but how do you get your foot in the door? And uh my lovely ex-manager who uh had believed in let me loose and do all sorts of amazing things. Um, actually, it was with Believe It or Not, the War Society of the Prevention of Something to Birds. What is it, RSB? Yes, yeah. Um it was Robert Peale, I think, started it. And my very first one was looking at the retail outlets because they weren't qualified retailers, they were a lot of them were volunteers, and they didn't think they were salespeople. Sales is abhorrent to a lot of people. I'm not selling anything, but you're providing a service, and if that service results in a sale, what have you done? You sold. Sorry, you know what's the big hang up? But that was a beautiful pale blue velvet chairs overlooking uh this huge massive pond thing with a balcony. And I thought I've died and gone to heaven, you know. This is and the variety of places I've been all around the world um working with organizations. And I always start at the top. Does that sound a bit arrogant? No, not all. You know, at the end of the day, if you go in at middle management, they are the jam in the sandwich, basically. So go to the top layer, and if you've got their backing, then it comes to place. But you've got to have a lot of um oomph about you, not to think, oh yes, but they are, and I'm only a. As I told you, I hate that. I'm only a. There's no such thing. Everybody plays a role and they contribute, and it's valuing that contribution. Fascinating, this is. So that's what it looked like in the beginning. Where are you at today? Right, I decided obviously COVID hit big time because I'd been working in Germany for a major organization, and flying back when we were coming out of the EU, whatever it was, I thought that's me done. An American has to fill in 30 pages plus to get a visa to work in Germany. I'm gonna have to do the same. And I trained people so well they didn't actually need me. I like to be made redundant. I like to give that people don't, you know, a lot of people, you know, the watch only works when you're there to wind it or something. I don't like that. I haven't got the attention span. I will go in, uh say, an organization that I've worked with now for 30 years, and I go in maybe every two, three, four, five years, when a situation arrives that they say we we could have Christine in, she'll, you know, put a new slant or give us something to think about, or what what is it that we need. So I've got very, very dear friends, and I am delighted with my LinkedIn profile. If you look at the scope of people that I interact with around the globe, I feel very honoured. Wow. And then more recently, things are changing for you, aren't they? Yeah. Just a little bit. Explain this because this is this is a fascinating part of the video. It was the 22nd of December, it was the anniversary of my husband's death. I'd been through the trauma of losing him, having to sell the house, finding somewhere to live, reinventing myself, to be honest, because we'd met when we were 17, so half of me's missing. And this solo bit was very, I don't know, challenging is probably the word. And I thought, right, start with a blank sheet of paper, what you want to do with your life. And I decided that um I would leave it to the universe, see what came in, uh, came in rather. It's the first time I didn't project manage my life. Wow. And what came in was modelling. I'm now uh on the books of uh modelling. I've done fashion shows, I struck my stuff, and uh I've now got a fabulous uh designer uh called Farouk, and he is designing an outfit because on the 3rd of December I shall be up on the big stage um receiving a lifetime achievement award, I believe. I think that came out the uh surprise but not surprised kind of category. And I just want to say to people, you know, if I'm a role model, that just don't let anybody put that fire out. My whole transformation, the book that I've written, Flashpoint Transformation, Life's Choices, is all based on the elements, and the transformational element is fire, and often you destroy before you can rebuild. Right. Well, I think that's you've mentioned your book, and we haven't talked about your book yet. So there's there's a two-part question now. Firstly, well, let's talk about the book first, and then I'll ask the next question. So, what's the book about? And who needs to buy it? Uh the reason for it basically I had to face my biggest fear. Now, when we came back from India at the age of seven, it was discovered I couldn't read and I was called stupid. Now, whether it's dyslexia or what it is, I don't know. There's so much more understanding of children's learning capabilities and where their strengths are. And having been called stupid, um, it really knocks you. And that is my match, and nobody should ever be called that. We've all got gifts that we can offer, and our strengths that with a little bit of nourishing can flourish. So I sat there thinking, what was my biggest fear? My biggest fear was the written word. So on the, what was it? I can't remember something like the it was November, it was actually at the publishers on the 22nd of December, seven weeks from nothing. I created the book. I designed it, did the layout, uh, found a fabulous printer down in Cardiff, and uh they got it to the publishers, as I say, just before Christmas. There's a spelling mistake in it, and my lovely ex-boss Richard Shepherd, with glee, picked up the phone and said, Sack your editor, Christine. I said, Were you talking to her? I said, Do you know I'm delighted? You've got to page 80. Wow, yeah. And you have found instead of in, I've written is one letter, you bastard. And you've been looking for that floor. Uh, but that was the standard you used to put me through. You see, so I don't know if I swore, I do apologise. Well, we complete that, that's funny. You you pillow core words to that effect. But you know, it was the glee in his voice that he'd found an error. Now, you sometimes need that vetting, you need that scrutiny. Don't be frightened of people spotting out errors, you only learn from your mistakes. You don't learn from repeating what you're good at, do you? No. Wow. So for anyone listening, Christine, or watching, uh how can people work with you right now? Because you've got there's multiple ways, but what are you looking to do now? Right. Uh I've got three three strands, to be honest. Um, promoting the book and speaking. Now, I could I've spoken all around the world on business case studies. I really want to talk about flashpoint transformation and your life's choices. And I think the majority is going to be the 50 plus market, because that's growing big time. So it's in my 80s saying, look, come on, follow me, because it's exciting. Uh, reinvent yourself. Don't get stereotyped. Don't let anybody judge you. Just your internal judge. Does it feel right? Don't let them blow out that little spark, because they've tried very hard with me on occasions. And in that dark place, I liken it in my book to a forest fire that's raged through your life. And all you're left is with burnt earth and stubs and destroyed. And I don't know if you've been there, Richard, but it's a horrible place to be. You can't see anything. And then you find out that there's certain seeds that cannot germinate without intense heat. They lie dormant in the soil. And when that fire rages through, they poke their little heads up. And something new comes. So don't be frightened of that dark place because something else will feel, something new will come from that. Oh, I like that, Christine. That's very I can really relate to that, really. That's really good. Yeah, because it's not nice. Nobody can pretend it's nice. And I think if you rely on other people to pick you up and dust you off and put you on the road, forget it. Don't lose that little inner spark. Don't let it go out of self-belief, because that's where all starts. What was that? Book and speaking. Book and yeah, I think get getting the book and speaking, getting that out there. I really would like to work um uh on the whole lifestyle of um where do you live? You know, I took the decision of selling the family house, and I'm now in um a retirement environment, independent living, and that was a huge leap. And I think people are delaying it sometimes rather than jumping and then living a new life. So really to be a role model for change in later life. So that would definitely be the second one. And we've got three. Oh, good heavens, what would I like to do? Um, I do love fashion, I do like poncing around a bit. I would like to be involved in how people can have uh an image of themselves, and age has got nothing to do with it. I feel good when I go out. And so many people now dress down to the point that they want to conform. I mean, the word scruffy is probably unfair, but casual on my kind of days. And what is wrong with standing out? What is wrong with being smart? We've all become clones, it's very, very weird. Just look in the mirror and say, who the heck is that person looking back at me? And what have I buried through other people's expectations? So we're right back to expectations. Um and who imposes them on you? Are you asking me now? Oh there was a uh a pregnant pause then for a minute. It was because uh my mind was thinking, I was trying to think about it, but where do they come from? I suppose anyone that you let allow you allow them to. Oh, don't forget as a child, your your baby, you're totally dependent on where you were born, what parenting you receive, are they gonna feed you, neglect you, or whatever? So, you know, we're born in this dependency role. And what frightens me is we end up there, you know, as we age, um, we become dependent on people caring for us. So you come back full cycle. Um, I managed to dislocate my knee, which wasn't very clever, and became to the point where I thought, am I going to be striding around the world doing weird and wonderful things like I'm off to the Gallipagos Islands next year? Fantastic. Um, and just do it. Um, but without your health, you're kidding yourself. So just be a little bit respectful in what you do. And I'm not fit. I know I'm not fit, but as long as I bounce, I'm okay. I love that. So, sort of on the note of this, who are your role models? Oh, there's it's the Judy Dench group. I know they're dames and all very important people, but they personify for me living life to the hilt. And I love them to bits, I mean Maggie Smith, you name them. They're they're classic people that think I'm wrinkled, so what? You know, at the end of the day, I still think Judy Dench is sexy. I think she just oozes sex appeal. She's a fantastic woman. And you know, for me, we've got role models out there. Are you gonna be one? Trying to. I think most people try, don't they? No, I don't. I really don't think they've been they are in survival mode, so many people. I want to be accepted, I want to be liked. Um it's um this justification of yourself through other people. You've got to start with self. And my self-model is the situation in one sentence that you want to resolve. One sentence. Uh, you then E is the emotions that that situation stir up. Is it fear, happiness, uh, excitement? What emotions does that situation actually evoke in you? Uh L is for logic. Okay, cut all the doo-da and come down to what are the facts? Logically, yeah, I'm of this age. Logically, I have a budget to work to, logically, and just put all the facts of life. I'm not airy-fairy stuff, you've got to ground it. So the logic is there, um, and then the F really is focus on what you want. That's my self-model. I like that. That's quite a journey, Christine. So still a bit to go. Still going, still going. But three questions now. In all of that journey, is there a low point that sticks out for you? Oh, the low point was um uh being called in and knowing that you'd wasted two years of your family life in a company that didn't value you, they were just using you. And that really just churned my stomach because we we pay a price somewhere for this wonderful freedom and what we want to do if there's people around us we love. And um they're part of that journey. So the low low point was I wasn't always there when perhaps my children needed me. And you can't take those years back, can you? I think that will resonate with quite a few people, and the people that maybe just starting their journey with the children, yeah. Hopefully they'll heed that. Yeah, just uh how do how do you get the balancing act? And there was one woman, I'm trying to think of her name, fantastic woman. She came and gave us a talk, runs this big company, I mean global stuff, and she said, I will have a holiday, and the world can crumble around me, but I will be there during my children's school holidays. End of story. And the business works around that um belief that she has to be there in those formative years, and you know, she'll pick up the phone, she'll do stuff, but physically she will be with her children. Interesting, very interesting. The flip side of that question is there a high point that sticks out for you? Oh, high point, oh, there's so many. I'm so lucky. Uh the high point was living with a shaman in the Altai Mountains. How about that? Wow. Yeah, I went on an organized tour and then I went back by myself across Russia, Siberia to the Altai and lived with a shaman. And that was one real education. So uh that's a whole nother story. It is, yeah, another podcast. We can do that. Where does your spiritual beliefs come from? Spirituality has been separated from us. We we either go down the route of art or we go down science. Education has divided us, not united us. And I think that is so sad that the judgment call is tick boxes and whether you pass exams or whether you're one of these fluffy, airy-fairy people. Wow. Great answers, great answers. So there's only one question left now. This is a question for anyone just starting business or in business. What would your one piece of advice be? Oh gosh. Uh what gives you the greatest feeling of joy, satisfaction, and yes, I can contribute. What is it that you feel is your gift that you can put out there? Because you're on this planet to do something worthwhile. What is it? And don't let anybody snuff that out. It's your inner flame. That is a transformational fire. And people have huffed and puffed at mine. And I've never ever, I've cried, I've gone away and nearly given up and thought, oh, this is the end, blah, blah, blah. And you think, no, come on. Nobody can do it but you. So look after yourself. That's powerful. Christine, thank you so much for your time today. You're welcome back on the podcast at any time. Oh, you've just scratched the surface here. No, you have to be back. So all the best with your journey continuing, and um, we'll speak to you again soon. Yeah, that would be wonderful. And uh, people know where to find me. Um, I have a website, the Christine Marsh. So look me up on that. Uh, I do podcasting. Uh, I'm here today doing one, so any invitations are more than welcome. Uh, I'd love to work with getting messages out there and work with like-minded people. And your LinkedIn is very up to date, isn't it? Yeah, oh gosh, yes. Always on LinkedIn. Yeah. Thank you, Christine. Thank you indeed, Richard. And all my good wishes to your listeners, each and every one of you, because you're special.