Mastering Leather Care with Thomas Thai of Perth Leather

Join us in this captivating episode where we sit down with Thomas Thai, an automotive leather expert with a rich background in leather repair. 

Thomas shares his personal journey in establishing a successful leather repair business, providing valuable insights into the maintenance and repair of leather seats in modern cars. He breaks down the different types of leather used in vehicles and their specific care needs. 

Listen as he delves into the benefits of ceramic coatings for leather, the common pitfalls in leather care, and his top recommendations for leather care products.

In addition to these insights, Thomas discusses the vital role of motor trimmers in restoring leather and the challenges they face. He offers indispensable advice for car enthusiasts and owners, including the use of Leather Fresh products and practical DIY tips for leather upkeep. 

A highlight of this episode is the introduction of an innovative colour scanning tool for accurate colour matching in leather repairs.

Don't miss Thomas's reflections on some of the most challenging and unique leather repair jobs he's tackled. For more on Thomas Thai’s expertise and services, check out his Facebook page, Instagram or profile on Ausdetailingpros.com.au

For a comprehensive list of reputable detailing professionals to keep your car in top condition, visit: AusDetailingPros.com.au.

Transcript

Alex (00:02.57)
Hi everybody, Alex here from Australian Detailing Professionals. Today I'm sitting with Thomas Thai. Thomas is one of Australia's leading automotive leather experts and owner of Perth Leather. I'm keen to tap into Thomas' wealth of knowledge today, and get you some insider tips that will help you keep your car's leather looking impeccable.

So buckle up and get ready to discover the secrets of automotive leather care straight from an expert. Let's welcome Thomas Thai. Thomas, how are you today, mate?

Thomas Thai (00:34.226)
Very well, thank you. Thank you for having me, Alex.

Alex (00:36.298)
A pleasure, mate. Really thank you for making the time. This is a topic that can be a little bit mysterious to even veteran detailers. There's so many different surfaces on theories of cars, particularly in the leather area. So yeah, let's start off with your background. We had a brief initial conversation that was quite fascinating of how you found yourself as a leather expert.

Thomas Thai (01:02.402)
Yeah, so pretty much I didn't actually start off in automotive at all, always played with cars and you know, worked for different sort of companies accounting and then moved into automotive and then took a liking to working on my own cars and you know, as any you know, young male, a lot of them having keen interest in cars and kind of worked my way through. So probably start off with how the brand actually started Perth Leather.

I bought a Tesla about three years ago and you know driving around it's all cool. Had leather cars before always thought damage can't repair it. Had a drink bottle, 1.5 litre drink bottle in the side door, glass roof, sun, starts melting the interior door and I looked at my door and I was like how am I going to fix this? Tesla had a shortage of parts, contacted them.

two and a half grand for a door trim, all. And then I said, okay. Then they said, we got no stock. So the only option then was to repair. And at that very moment, I looked up, leather trim repair, got in contact with someone, and they said to me, okay, I have to wait four weeks, and it was about 250 bucks. He came out, took 15 minutes.

Alex (02:25.481)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (02:28.322)
Did a repair that I thought was acceptable, but I thought me working on my own cars, I could probably do it better after watching him. And I guess this is how I got onto Colourlock. I hopped online, looked up leading products and whatnot, got in touch with Terry, the owner of Colourlock and distributor for Australia. And I already had past dealings with Terry due to my work, being in the automotive space.

Next thing you know I ordered a kit and started going off on my own, practicing doing my own cars, and did a repair on my Tesla that you couldn't even tell that it had been repaired. And yeah, that takes me back three years and then from there I started repairing friends and family and then started into a full blown business.

Alex (03:09.32)
Awesome.

Alex (03:18.874)
Awesome, mate. So the full blown business bit I recall you saying was someone from a dealership spying your work and was quite impressed. What's the story there?

Thomas Thai (03:20.438)
But, yeah.

Thomas Thai (03:30.515)
Yep. Yeah, so I started doing a lot of more repairs and I was posting it on my social media at the time and then it was just word of mouth through the forums that when someone posts a piece of a damaged trim and they're like, hey, can anyone repair this or do I have to buy a new one? At that point, I had repaired quite a few BMWs.

Alex (03:56.851)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (03:57.602)
myself having a BMW E30 at the time and repairing it a lot of pieces where I did trial and error myself and getting quite... yeah, I love them as well. And yeah, a couple guys from the European car space got out and reached out to me and at that time I wasn't a proper business yet. It was more, hadn't ABN and what not.

Alex (04:04.386)
It's my favorite beamer the E30. Awesome.

Thomas Thai (04:26.23)
but hadn't gone down that path of full-blown insurances and making sure that I was all correct. And then, yeah, they approached me and then when they sent me the vendor form, I had all these things I had to tick off. And then I thought, you know, it has to be worth my while. And I signed, got that done, started doing some repairs for them. And then I found out for them, it was incredibly cheap. And it was also a gap in the market that no one was fulfilling.

Alex (04:30.427)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (04:55.522)
to the standard that they wanted. And then I took on that dealership and because they were at the mercy of my flexibility of it, they were giving me ample time to get the quality of finish that I wanted. And then from there, obviously, as you progress you get faster, you get better, more techniques and whatnot, so, and free.

Alex (04:57.73)
Hmm.

Alex (05:18.318)
Yeah, yeah, amazing. Tell me something on a side note. Teslas have a bit of a varied reputation when it comes to paint. What's the leather like in Teslas generally?

Thomas Thai (05:30.698)
The leather, in my opinion, one of the easiest, from a basic standpoint, to keep clean. People, when they hear vegan leather or anything like that, it's actually, for it to be classed vegan, it just has to have a 3% by a degrading product in there that degrades by 3%, which is, standard has zero to one.

Alex (05:37.286)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (05:57.406)
and then it has a synthetic material of about 3%. So it's not actually that much different to your normal leather or anything. Sorry, very different to normal leather, very similar to the vinyl that we get in our traditional, like, Geodas and whatnot.

Alex (05:58.153)
Mm.

Alex (06:10.412)
Mm.

Alex (06:15.638)
Yep, Thomas, this leads me into my first question. What are the most common types of leather used in modern automobiles and how do their core requirements differ? And I think we just had a chat before this saying, what are we calling modern? And you're saying not a lot had really changed from, say, the mid 90s or the 90s in general.

Thomas Thai (06:33.074)
Yeah, so probably start off with the mid 90s and early era. I think due to technology, everything was actually, you know, your full grain leather and being a more, what I would call a real leather. Obviously you have different thicknesses and different grades of it. You know, you have your Nappa leather and all that, which was your more premium end. Nappa leather is still around now, which is on your premium BMWs and whatnot.

Alex (06:48.512)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (06:59.22)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (07:02.182)
A lot of people are opting for that vinyl, it's actually vinyl, but they call it pleather plastic leather, which is essentially a cloth-backed layer with a vinyl-like grain on top. And that's probably the most common. I'd say 90% of the cars that we see on the road are running a plastic leather kind of material.

Alex (07:07.561)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alex (07:19.804)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (07:31.094)
Very robust, very easy to care for, less susceptible to water damage as opposed to your traditional leather. Your traditional leather, when it gets a certain amount of moisture in it and dries out, it can dry kind of like a hard cardboard, which you'll see in some older leathers. I think you probably come across it as well. And just in general, a lot easier to match when you repair as well.

Alex (07:49.119)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (07:56.858)
So that top coat on most cars is plastic as you describe. So when you hear people, you know, I've sort of said to a couple of people, I dare say in some groups that are using things on like saddle soaps and things like that, the only thing they're moisturising really is their ass. It's not gonna go anywhere into the seat, right? Yep.

Thomas Thai (08:15.394)
Yeah, so yeah, and a lot, I'd say, unless you've got like a semi-aniline, which I think they come on like some very, very high-end cars like a Rolls-Royce and whatnot, but personally I haven't come across a car that is semi-aniline for most of the interior. Like you get bits and pieces here and there. Just because it's very hard to maintain. If you get some oil on it, it's very hard to extract. It's just not a product that you would put in a car.

Alex (08:22.856)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (08:28.735)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (08:34.885)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (08:42.427)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (08:46.906)
So, coming back to that top coat that we were talking about, it's very much like the evolution of car paint. You have the two pack paint or your straight direct gloss and then nowadays we have a clear coat on it. And same with leather. Everything's clear coated now. It's kind of like a, almost like a seal layer and it protects the undercoat. And you'll start to see it. When you're cleaning leather.

Alex (08:47.075)
Okay, so, sorry you go.

Alex (08:59.82)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (09:15.694)
If your micro-fibre is coming back clean, as in no colour transfer, your top coat is still in good nick. When it starts to transfer colour onto it, you know that you've broken that top layer and now you're starting to take the colour coat away. Once you wear through that, you'll get the primer and then you'll start to damage the actual texture.

Alex (09:22.98)
Mm.

Alex (09:31.412)
Mm.

Alex (09:36.402)
So what are the basic steps that owners should be doing to maintain this top coat of their seats?

Thomas Thai (09:44.498)
Yeah, so I'll probably start off with the first thing. You always gotta assess your leather, whether it be old car, new car. I call it the touch test. So I grab the leather, squeeze it, just to make sure that it's still soft or to a standard that is not going to, like if you put a cleaner on it, it's not going to just go into the cracks and damage it even further. Well, I guess then the look test, which is, is your leather shiny? Leather should not be shiny.

There is some vinyl finishes which are shiny, but 90% of them should be a matte or satin finish, which will indicate that it's a clean surface. I think when detailers do it, they always look for that showroom finish and it's a nice matte substance. Then we get to the leather cleaning products. I think people overcomplicate the cleaning process, you know, pulling out steamers and doing all that. ColourLoft do a mild leather cleaner. They also do a...

Alex (10:28.664)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (10:42.498)
fabric cleaners and whatnot, all come in that. We have the brushes and I think people try to be too gentle with leather. Leather is very robust. This brush is quite firm. But what it does is it gets the dirt out of the grain. A lot of people make the mistake of rubbing it with a microfiber and think, oh, it's clean, but and then you get a brush to it and then you do a before and after and it's worlds apart.

Alex (11:13.118)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (11:13.218)
And so the maintenance of it is I think Don't wait for it to get too dirty And then also if you do use sunscreen moisturizer or some people with the fake tans and whatnot You want to be getting those areas clean more often You you know with black leather. It's very easy to tell because you start to get a gray appearance on it Also once you get the gray appearance on it the sun will start to damage well the

start to wear out the leather in a different rate and then you'll get dark and light spots.

Alex (11:46.91)
Hmm, interesting. What I was gonna ask you is a little bit of a segue, and I haven't got it in this list of items here, is the merit of coating leather. There's a lot of specific leather coatings that are sort of dubbed ceramic. What are your thoughts on those, and any advice around that?

Thomas Thai (12:06.11)
Yep. Well, I actually prepared something. So the ceramic coats are quite good. Colourlock have come out with a product called Top Life. So it's a breathable leather protection. So what I mean by breathable means that when you actually coat something like ceramic coat, you're fully sealing it. It's creating a layer that does not allow anything to pass through or come up through it.

Alex (12:11.313)
Yeah.

Alex (12:17.256)
Okay.

Thomas Thai (12:36.538)
A prime example is have you ever got a permanent marker, dabbed a piece of paper and it's bled through to the other side? So essentially if you had a ceramic coat, it would stop that both ways. But that also means that once you ceramic coat the leather, you can't condition the underside. And leather still breathes from the underside because of the foam.

Alex (12:45.52)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (13:00.355)
underneath and all that is still exposed. So you're still getting the oxygen, it's still drying it out to an extent.

Alex (13:05.958)
So even through this plastic topcoat.

Thomas Thai (13:09.854)
Yes, the plastic top coat, yeah, because the plastic top coat still has micropores. Yeah, and that's why you have that, kind of like a satin finish, because it's not fully sealed the way that, and that's why it's soft, because if it was fully sealed, it would be super slippery and more hard. And that's why sometimes when you see water-parted droplets sit on the leather, it kind of sits there and it kind of looks like it sinks in and it looks a bit patchy on the surface.

Alex (13:11.187)
Yeah

Alex (13:15.439)
Ah right, okay.

Alex (13:26.146)
Of course. Yep.

Alex (13:33.753)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (13:38.59)
It's because it's actually slowly sinking in. That's why when people spill soft drink and stuff and they kind of leave it, the leather underneath goes hard. And I think that's the biggest mistake people make because they're like, oh, how come my leather, it's very common in Volkswagen's where the leather underneath actually becomes like cardboard because people have this misconception that's fully sealed. You can't fully seal it, otherwise it'll become too hard. Yeah.

Alex (13:40.19)
Mmm.

Alex (13:48.201)
Mm.

Alex (13:54.843)
Mm.

Mm.

Alex (14:04.046)
It's interesting, a couple of detailers in the states that I respect are moving away from coatings for various reasons and it's just interesting to hear what you're saying. I should probably take my words back a little bit on the saddle soap, but I'm sure there's probably a more suitable product for automotive conditioning regardless. That's quite interesting. The only time that I would sell a customer ceramic coating is actually that white Tesla.

Thomas Thai (14:17.108)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (14:20.813)
Yeah.

Alex (14:31.186)
leather because I often hear of the dye transfer from, you know, I'll say, what colored pants does your wife generally wear in her car? And it'll be like, maybe blue or something. I'm like, yeah, this may assist with that. So in absence of using a ceramic, or dye transfer, I mean, so in absence of using a ceramic coating to protect those white, white seats, and you know, it's a very, can't think of much more white seats than you get in the current Teslas. What would you recommend for that protection?

Thomas Thai (14:42.315)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (14:55.388)
Yes.

Thomas Thai (15:00.31)
So you could go with Top Life, Leather Shield, I think Swiss Vax, do a Leather Milk. Yep, even, even... Yep.

Alex (15:04.862)
So these are all Colourlock products you're talking about. And you're a certified, sorry mate, you're a certified installer for Colourlock. And I think you should, in the industry, we all know the name Colourlock as a trusted brand in leather care. Did you wanna just explain Colourlock a little bit for your average car enthusiast or proud owner?

Thomas Thai (15:25.35)
Yep, so Colourlock is a German based product with OEM approvals from Porsche, VW and the likes about it as well. Just with the Colourlock, they specialize in leather and interior care, hence why I use the product. It's a tried and tested product. They also do a lot of R&D on that as well. It is...

The main reason why I use it is because it gives you the OEM finish. You know, there's other products out there. I'm more talking on the repair side when I say Colour Lock, but when we're talking about maintenance, you know, you've got your Gions, you've got, you know, your Chemical Guys and all that. They all work fantastic as well. So there's, you know, I'm a little bit more biased with the Colour Lock just because I know the quality of it.

Alex (15:55.937)
Mm.

Alex (16:16.829)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (16:16.975)
And you know as a professional you don't want to be testing and trying on customers cars Yeah

Alex (16:21.594)
For sure, yes, yeah, absolutely. Now you're right that a couple of products come to mind. The P&S have a popular one and it does leave gloss, it leaves a shine and like you said, that's not the natural look of modern interiors. So it's quite an interesting perspective to look at it. What's it meant to look like from the beginning when it rolls out of the factory really, right?

Thomas Thai (16:30.114)
Yep.

Yeah.

Thomas Thai (16:43.179)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (16:48.442)
Yeah, so just to touch base on the gloss, also it's more susceptible to attract more dirt when you have the gloss as well. So I think while some people do like the look, I think that it's personal preference at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, or do you want that natural satin fresh look? So yeah, personal preference on that one.

Alex (16:57.438)
of course here and

Alex (17:04.034)
Mmm. It is. It's kind of like shine on tires, isn't it, at the end of the day? Mmm. Yeah.

Alex (17:13.266)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So what are some of the common mistakes you see people make when caring for their leather? I guess this is related to what to use. What do you see mostly? And what turns up as say damage that could have been prevented because they were caring for their leather the wrong way?

Thomas Thai (17:21.195)
Cough

Thomas Thai (17:26.198)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (17:33.234)
Yeah, so from a professional standpoint, I see a lot of guys steam leather. That is a big no-no in the repair side because what you're actually doing is you're introducing too much water. And as I said to you, that top coat is breathing. And when you've got heat opening up the pores, you're sending water pretty much straight to the backside of it. Yes, it breaks down the dirt from the top. It's because your pores are actually opening of it.

Alex (17:39.35)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Alex (17:44.002)
Yep.

Alex (17:49.728)
Rot.

Alex (18:02.288)
Yes.

Thomas Thai (18:03.43)
The way that you can look at leather is it's kind of like your skin You know if you if you exfoliate and stuff too much, it's gonna do some damage But the thing is you can't leather is not a living organism, so it won't heal itself And then so that's one another one is people trying to clean leather that is Scratched already you got to be very gentle because it's a you've got a broken top layer

Alex (18:19.051)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (18:32.242)
and colour layer, as you agitate it you're actually creating more damage to lift the damaged areas. For example if I see something that I'm not too sure about I always go with the microfibre first and then I introduce the brush, I wouldn't go straight onto the brush. It's always, as with anything, test an inconspicuous area if you're not sure. But yeah, biggest mistake is, and also products they...

people use all purpose, I think it's the all purpose, yeah, G101. The pH is a little bit too high on the plastics. You see it all the time, guys, damage the clear coat on the trim, it leaves a white outline. It's the G101 is, I mean, you could probably dilute it down and get away with a quick wipe because the cars are too dirty, but on, I see it very, especially when they shoot the trim straight on.

Alex (19:04.802)
G101 I was gonna ask you about, yep.

Alex (19:11.641)
Mm.

Alex (19:17.23)
Mm.

Alex (19:24.482)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (19:29.247)
it leaves the marks and whatnot.

Alex (19:31.711)
Mm. Mm, you see that a lot in the enthusiast Facebook groups and I think, oh, what damage is a lot of this advice doing to automobiles out there? You get the vocal minority screaming about what's best. So, yeah, look, so the most common things that turn up for you to repair, what are they generally?

Thomas Thai (19:34.314)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (19:38.273)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (19:49.975)
So as of late, it's normally steering wheel damage. A lot of it's caused by hand sanitizer and moisturizer. Just because obviously COVID, everyone's got hand sanitizer. Even though it's dry on your hands, when you start to sweat a little bit, it's transferring some of that residual onto the steering wheel and it eats it away, starts to flake or strip off the top coat. I think...

Alex (19:57.127)
Right.

Yes.

Alex (20:08.214)
Yes.

Alex (20:13.419)
Hmm.

Alex (20:17.856)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (20:18.694)
Every single detailer has seen it. It's one of those. So that's a very easy repair if you catch it early. If you start to wear away the topcoat and you keep using the steering wheel, you're going to break down that leather component or the plastic underside. And then you start to get holes and then the repair gets more expensive. Another one is bolster wear. Just from getting in and out, it's a very common one where the bolster gets damaged. Much the same as well.

Alex (20:20.992)
Mmm.

Alex (20:34.411)
Yep.

Alex (20:37.664)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (20:46.998)
You start to see some damage, you start to address it. Kind of like swirls in the paint. You don't want it to get to a point where it's just too much and you're just wearing it too thin.

Alex (20:52.219)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (21:00.678)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, for example, what's your process for repairing small tears, just for people that are listening that haven't looked at, say for example, your Instagram, which is awesome by the way, where you can see you effectively puttying of some kind and what looks like sanding. A lot of people don't understand that leather actually is sanded as part of the process prior to getting into your vehicle. So,

Thomas Thai (21:19.534)
Thank you.

Thomas Thai (21:25.815)
Yep.

Alex (21:30.602)
What, what, yeah, what's going on there? What are you using? And, uh, yeah, talk us through it.

Thomas Thai (21:34.731)
Yeah, yeah, so I always talk to my customers first with that just before the repair and I tell them that cow hide is furry and then as soon as they say that they get more comfortable with me putting a putty on it and sanding it. So first thing I always do is I clean the whole area even more so than the area I repaired just in case I need a blend spray.

Alex (21:46.195)
Yes.

Alex (21:51.592)
Yep.

Alex (21:56.928)
Yep.

Thomas Thai (22:00.982)
So I'll clean the area and that where there'd be a mild leather cleaner and whatnot. Then I have a look at it and then I put another product, I use a degreaser, which is, it pretty much is, if you're cleaning, sometimes it still pushes around the dirt, the degreaser just makes sure it's a very clean surface. And then from there, I will look at the repair. If it's, we're talking about a small grip, I always get the backing cloth.

Alex (22:10.852)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (22:28.01)
I put the backing cloth down. What that actually does is it keeps the area stable for the repair. The backing cloth actually has a glue layer that will add, so say you've got a rip that's flapping up, you put it on the underside, it will, and when I heat it, the glue from the fabric will stick together. Essentially that will hold the area, so the area you are now putting becomes one joint. When you don't have that cloth layer, it,

Alex (22:52.386)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (22:56.322)
the repair, when someone pushes on that actual repair, it has a high chance of breaking because the putty that I'm putting on is to replicate the top layer, not the backing cloth.

Alex (23:03.262)
Mm.

Alex (23:06.75)
I was going to ask you, what is that putty made out of? It's obviously flexible. Do you know what it's made out of?

Thomas Thai (23:12.786)
It's a plastic paste, so there's a component of silicon and other things. It's actually the same, the one that Colourlock makes is the same as some manufacturers actually use it on a larger scale. They put it on and then it gets stamped. So hence why Colourlock is an approved OEM repairer. So it pretty much follows the same procedure as that.

Alex (23:17.726)
Run.

Alex (23:27.615)
Wow.

Alex (23:32.232)
Yeah, okay.

Thomas Thai (23:38.518)
you will get some cars that have a much harder finish on the top, you can adjust that with the amount of hardener you put in the colour. So there's little tips and tricks, which I won't bore you with the detail, but as the people that do it get on, they'll find out. There's also, so that's the heavy repair. Once I do the plastic paste, so what you have to do with that is you have to put the paste down, get it to a kind of like a smooth.

Alex (23:51.746)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (24:06.758)
finish as if you're putting car bodies. And then you apply a concentrated amount of heat until you see a little bit of smoke. So I like to use a soldering iron with a blow tip just because I get a more focused control. Some guys like to use a heat gun. I do use heat gun on larger repairs, but you essentially just want to heat the putty. And then from there, to replicate the grain, you can either use

the grain maker to make a replication of the grain somewhere along the car. So essentially I would inject the grain somewhere where the leather is not damaged, let it cool and it makes a silicon layer of the reverse. That allows me to imprint the grain to replicate the area. Of course sometimes you won't get it 100% perfect but that is where the wire leather

needs to kind of be satin because it hides those minor imperfections and it won't catch the eye. And then from there you would just put your primer down, your colour, I'll go into a bit more detail with the colour matching and how that's done but say for example say we're using black, you just put the black down a couple of layers. I like to sand in between the layers, what sanding in between the layers allows the paint to bind better.

Alex (25:11.911)
Yeah right.

Thomas Thai (25:34.254)
And you see guys just keep spraying, but you need the textures to bind every single layer, also creating kind of like that, the leather texture that you see as well, by doing that, and smoothing it out and making the repair kind of blend in with the normal area. And then you get onto the top coat. The top coat contains three to five percent fastener.

Thomas Thai (26:04.306)
a cross linker, it's called a cross linker. It's a hardening agent that makes the product a lot stronger. And then pretty much you finish all that and then there's a sanding pad that's called a buff pad, which it's a 4000 grade sandpaper that you're just buffing the area with. That makes the leather feel nice to touch after because otherwise you get some, what I call micro hairs when you're spraying.

Alex (26:28.674)
Hmm.

Alex (26:32.703)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (26:33.698)
dust particles and whatnot. By doing that you're knocking down the whole top and the repair feels looks and feels exactly like it was.

Alex (26:41.702)
So your 4,000 grit there just triggered my memory to ask, magic erasers are a popular tool amongst detailers for cleaning interiors. What are your thoughts on those?

Thomas Thai (26:50.09)
Yep, fantastic tool. Just be aware that you are essentially taking away micro layers of it. But it is, especially when the leather's very dirty. And leather is, as I was saying to you, it's very robust. So it can cope with that. And from a detailist perspective, definitely keep using it. From a do it yourself.

Alex (26:55.083)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (27:02.762)
Mm.

Alex (27:12.213)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (27:19.87)
I would not recommend it because if you're doing it all the time on a clean piece of leather, you will start to lose the grain. You're going to start to strip away that top coat, as I was saying, because as a detailer, he's not going to pull out the magic eraser on a car that he cleans every two weeks. I haven't seen it. I mean, if there is someone doing that, please stop doing that, but I haven't seen it yet.

Alex (27:26.428)
Mm.

Alex (27:30.529)
Mm.

Alex (27:35.981)
Mm-mm.

Alex (27:42.45)
Yeah. And for the enthusiasts at home, that's basically just an abrasive pad. You could think of it a little bit like what you might use to clean your dishes, but a little bit more aggressive, so to speak. So it's a popular tool for, I'd say, harder sort of stains to deal with, I guess, in the detailing world, but popular. So I thought I'd ask. So I've got just moving on here to product recommendations. And look, so we don't...

Thomas Thai (28:06.497)
Yeah.

Alex (28:12.186)
sound like a Colourlock commercial and Colourlock isn't as freely available say to your average Joe that wants to take care of their car in the likes of Repco and Supercheap. What sort of other brands might you recommend or just general sort of leather care products that are easily available to the consumer would you recommend?

Thomas Thai (28:14.338)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (28:29.203)
Yep

Yeah, so I, chemical guys have a cleaner, an interior cleaner that is clear. That works really well for the day-to-day user. It's pH neutral, it smells great. There's a few other ones, pretty much. You want something that is a very, a translucent, a clear product in terms of when you're cleaning. It's a clear liquid.

Alex (28:41.432)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (29:01.854)
When you get yellows and all that, I get a bit weary because obviously we're talking about the pores being open and what not, but the clearer the product. Also just look for pH neutral. pH neutral means you're not going to be stripping away that top coat. So chemical guys, I know Dion do a very good one. Most leather cleaners are very good in general. Just when you're getting down to that real dirty leather.

Alex (29:09.327)
Mm.

Alex (29:13.84)
Hmm.

Thomas Thai (29:30.242)
then you might wanna, that's when you really gotta be careful with the products that you're using, just because a lot of the times, some of the cheaper brands use a more aggressive pH, and what that does is to the normal user, they don't know where the limit kind of starts and stops, and then they keep going, and it just wears it away too much.

Alex (29:54.338)
Mm-hmm. Somebody looking for leather repair, what should people look for when choosing, you know, professionals such as yourself? Are there some red flags or some particular things you wanna see when you're reviewing their work?

Thomas Thai (30:07.034)
Yeah, I would always look at the stitching on their past repairs. So a lot of the leather repair guys that I see, for example, you've got a black piece of leather with red stitching, you'll see that they don't protect the stitching. Or if they do, that little gap in between the stitching is completely not coloured. And you can clearly tell when one's coloured and one's not. A real professional.

Alex (30:12.651)
Hmm.

Thomas Thai (30:35.574)
will be able to just protect the stitch line and make sure that everything else is sprayed nice and clean. There is professional products like Colourlock has a thread tape or thread blocker. And it's not that it's expensive or anything, it's just a step that some repairers skip just due to it takes too long and for them it's just about making money.

You know, so.

Thomas Thai (31:20.075)
their repair doesn't clog up the stitching because the thread will hold the paint and then it will start to look like a leather material. And you want it to be a seamless repair. And especially if you're paying the premium prices for a repair, it's kind of like trying to get a panel beater, a cheap panel beater versus an expensive panel beater. The quality of finish you would definitely be able to see.

Alex (31:24.907)
Hmm.

Alex (31:50.835)
That just reminded me of the imagery of you repairing some Ferrari seats. You repainted them. They were black and in quite average condition. And you repainted them red. So I've got to look at that again and have a look at that stitching, because I don't even think to look at that. That's really fascinating. So in that case, you literally mask that stitching up before you spray. Is that?

Thomas Thai (31:59.547)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (32:04.413)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (32:09.959)
Yeah, so with a colour change, with the colour change, I always talk to the customer. It's very hard to protect the stitching, but what I do when I get to the stitching is I don't spray heavy. I atomise the gun, so I apply a lot of pressure. So what that does is it allows me to, when I do that buffing with the 4000,

I can skim it off so it still reveals the grain texture of the thread. So you know when you look at thread very finely, you can see the loose fibres. With that sanding pad, when I hit the thread bits, it will expose that texture again while still dying it red.

Alex (32:54.342)
Right, right. So on that note of Ferrari seats, what sort of jobs do you get a little bit anxious about?

Thomas Thai (33:02.279)
Um, I get anxious with sticky dashes. Yes, so we were talking about that, the center trim where I have to scrape. So those rubberized textures are just a nightmare to clean. They get super sticky.

Alex (33:07.938)
Oh really? Yeah right.

Alex (33:13.543)
Yes.

Alex (33:18.278)
So to scrape, what I was talking about with you was literally you have a plastic razor blade from what I could see and you're going pretty hard on that material. So it's very intriguing to watch.

Thomas Thai (33:27.785)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (33:31.311)
Yeah, so a lot of cars have it in the BMWs and Lexus and stuff. It's like a soft touch plastic where it feels a little bit soft. So that coating, over time, it breaks down and becomes, the UV breaks it down. And when you try to clean it, there's no actual product that, its solvent starts to make it soft again. So you're just smooshing it around. And then...

Alex (33:38.631)
Yes.

Thomas Thai (33:55.999)
You know, so the only real way to do it is either you can sand it, but when you sand it, it clogs the pad very quick. So, plastic razor blade and just scraping it off is the quickest way, and then I hit it with the sandpaper in between to take off the bits that are kind of mixed with the razor blade. But it's just a very, very time consuming process. Also, one of those things that if you dig too hard, you're going to put a little dent in the plastic, and then you got to fill it, sand it, and come back. And just time consuming.

Alex (34:21.458)
And how do you match, matching textures I imagine is tricky too.

Thomas Thai (34:29.542)
Yes, on the plastic trims.

Alex (34:29.77)
Like dashes and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Yep.

Thomas Thai (34:32.827)
Yeah, so Dash, the Dash ones are usually covered by a leather piece. I would treat it just like a, yes, but when you have a, like the Lexus Dash board, that's actually like a, almost like a gel pad that they kind of put on, you know, that soft foamy texture. Those ones, a lot of the times I always say that I got to manage the customer's expectation. I can make it look better.

Alex (34:40.11)
Uh...

Alex (34:52.79)
Yep.

Thomas Thai (35:01.419)
but I can't make it look seamless on that. And sometimes you do get it seamless, but you just gotta manage the customer's expectations. Especially when you have foam and you apply heat, the area likes to sink down and you keep putting filler, it just keeps sinking down. And it's hard to, because if you put too much filler, the area becomes quite hard and everything else is around it soft. So with heat, the dash behavior is very different as well.

Alex (35:04.521)
Mmm.

Alex (35:27.158)
Hmm. Interesting. So, so what's the most challenging, unusual or unique job you've done where, where you were a little bit out of your comfort zone or just a bit random?

Thomas Thai (35:37.527)
Well, I think it's always the color changes. I actually did a VESS where the customer literally wanted every area of the car red. I think that if you go through, you have a look, you wanted door trims, door handles, and all that. And it was just the amount of prep work involved with stripping the whole door apart, cleaning,

Alex (35:45.296)
Hmm.

Thomas Thai (36:05.743)
every part that the paint's gonna hit so you get good amount of binding. And just, it was just, yeah, it was a very hard job in the sense that there's so much detail and when you're doing such a big job you kind of, you want to make sure your integrity of your work is still good so you're getting down there but it's, sometimes you're torn in between is the customer going to appreciate what I'm doing.

Alex (36:10.431)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (36:33.651)
because I always, you know, I spray the trim what I call edge to edge. So when I do your seat, I literally try to pull the seat apart so that when I die down to the edge, even when you take the seat apart, you wouldn't, you'd be going, okay, is it factory or is it, has it been, you know, because sometimes people spray and it stops short when you lift the seat apart. So it really depends on, but coming back to that, those jobs always give me the most.

Alex (36:53.596)
Mm-mm.

Thomas Thai (37:01.851)
anxiety because of Where do you start and where you stop? I almost I think e30 seat I took it one of my good customers now a good friend of mine His one I actually told the seat down and took the actual skins off Sprayed the skins and then put them back on and hovering them back on Just because it was it was a classic car his car was immaculate besides the interior

Alex (37:18.145)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (37:31.151)
And while I didn't charge him to that extent, I felt like the interior had to match the rest of the car for me. And that's where this being a side hobby that turned into a business for me, that still kind of carries through. And I hope not to lose that side of it, but yeah.

Alex (37:39.796)
Mm.

Alex (37:54.582)
So where would you sit in relation to a motor trimmer? So, you know, people say my bolsters are completely shagged. I typically think, oh, that's almost gotta be, you know, unstitched, rebuilt. I don't think of them as doing reconditioning, of course. They're almost keen to hop straight in and just replace, aren't they?

Thomas Thai (38:11.667)
Yeah, there's a couple of very reputable motor trimmers here in Perth that do the... So, in terms of what I do with the colouring, you still need us, even if you re-trim it, sometimes the colour of the new leather does not match the area, if you get what I mean. So, that's where we come in and colour it and blend it all in.

Alex (38:34.296)
Mmm, yeah I do.

Alex (38:41.105)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (38:42.559)
In terms of bolster, the limitations for it as a repairer, if the foam is starting to wear away, we can't really do much with that. There is some techniques, you know, we do stuff a bit of foam up on the underside and block it in. And then normally when you start to see stitching come apart, that's when I go, yep, you gotta go to a trimmer. Or I would say if the repair is bigger than a 20 cent piece or too long.

Alex (39:02.877)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (39:11.495)
I would say that's when you start to get a motor trimmer to replace the piece area.

Alex (39:18.374)
Right, right. Interesting, okay. Are you able to give us some key takeaway advice for enthusiasts and proud car owners?

Thomas Thai (39:29.775)
Yep, so takeaway advice is there's a product called Leather Fresh. Before you even engage someone like myself, you can buy a product that sponges on the color, top coat, and the primer all in one hit. It's a very cheap and affordable product. Color Lock do it. Not sure if any other brands do it, but pretty much your bolster wear. You just clean it down with the cleaner and then you sponge it on.

If you have a chance, have a look at the Leather Fresh product. I would highly recommend it. Best selling product for Colour Lock as well. And that in itself is the maintenance, because you're keeping your car uniform. Anytime you have a scratch, you can also use this, and it will fix it as well. But in terms of some DIY tips, shiny leather is, in my opinion, a dirty leather.

The tip is just to keep your leather looking as flat as possible. Also, another DIY tip is if you've got dents in your leather, you can actually use a hairdryer on high heat, heat the area. I'd say hairdryer, not heat gun because you can't...

Alex (40:46.374)
You mean, say from a, sorry, Thomas, from a baby seat or something like that? Yep.

Thomas Thai (40:49.471)
Yeah, yeah, prime example, yep. So if you watch on my Instagram, there's a video of me doing it. You use a heat gun, be patient with it, heat the area, and then I, if you're doing this at.

Alex (41:02.463)
So how do we know where we're safe with that heat? Just to the touch, how would you describe it?

Thomas Thai (41:07.687)
Yep, so I would say if you can hold your hand on the area for about 10 seconds, you're still in the safe zone. So I find that even with the high heat on a very strong hairdryer, you can heat it for a lot, so 15 centimetres away, you can hold the heat there and you won't damage the leather because you'll probably get up, the surface will probably get up to about...

Alex (41:17.684)
Okay.

Alex (41:24.354)
Mm.

Thomas Thai (41:36.687)
70 80 degrees or 70 or so degrees which it would get to that inside a hot day in a black car anyway So so you'll be safe with that um, but what that does is it makes the leather relax and go back to the area that the foam's wanting to push it in and Because the dented area what happens is uh, it's there and then it gets heated by the sun And then it wants to stay there. But now when you heat it, it's allowing it to relax And then just grab a coke can

Alex (41:38.857)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (41:44.525)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (42:03.714)
Mm-hmm.

Thomas Thai (42:06.319)
and just roll the coat can and cool it very quick so it shrinks back and it holds that shape. That's probably one of the best tips and tricks that I can show people. Because people see creases and they go, oh, baby chair's ruined the seat. It's a very, very easy fix. And then, yeah, just with the everyday maintenance, don't be afraid to, every once in a while, if your leather's looking real dirty, get even a shoe brush, a leather shoe brush, you know, the ones that you can get at Kohl's or Woolley's.

Alex (42:11.347)
Yeah, awesome.

Alex (42:19.409)
Yeah. Yeah, okay.

Thomas Thai (42:35.187)
buy one of them, few bucks, yeah, just a little bit stiffer than your toothbrush is the way that I like to explain it. And yeah, just clean your leather that way. And then if it's one of those things that you have to put a conditioner on, don't just keep slapping conditioner on, you need to kind of take that conditioner off and put a fresh one on because it's...

Alex (42:43.616)
Okay.

Thomas Thai (43:03.471)
If you keep layering it on, that's when your leather really starts to discolour.

Alex (43:08.818)
Mm-hmm. Thomas, is there anything that I've missed here that you'd like to share or go deeper in at this point?

Thomas Thai (43:15.256)
I will just for the pros I do have the color scanning tool it is a it's the reason why I actually chose color lock and The hardest part of our job is the color matching of leather

Alex (43:25.473)
Right.

Alex (43:31.158)
Can you talk us through what you've just pulled out there? It looks like a...

Thomas Thai (43:33.123)
Yeah, so it's like a scan tool. It's got a, so it's, I don't know if you can see.

Alex (43:38.454)
For people who are just listening, it's just a small white tube that looks almost like you could fit a stack of baroccas in it.

Thomas Thai (43:44.891)
Yeah, essentially, and it's got a light on it. So what that does is you put it on a surface, you click scan, it connects to your mobile phone, it connects to a color swatch of about 500 pieces of leather, and what that does is it gives you the four, it pretty much gives you the combination to make that color within a certain percentage. So, you know, you look at some leathers, being a BMW,

Alex (43:51.935)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (43:57.749)
Hmm.

Thomas Thai (44:14.163)
like a caramel leather, you wouldn't know that there's pine green in it. But there is pine green in that color leather. And it gives you different hues, because sometimes you look at red, you can get a bright red or you get the Ferrari red, which has different colors in there. And as a person doing the repair, while you can get the repair on point, if the color's off, everything looks off. And you start to be able to look at it and go, I can see that piece.

Alex (44:21.557)
Hmm.

Alex (44:39.189)
Yeah.

Thomas Thai (44:43.727)
is completely different colour to the rest of the seat. Also, when you're doing a repair, you wanna make sure that you're not repairing to OEM spec because if the car's 15 years old, it will have colour wear from the sun. In one or two years, you're losing one to two shades of a normal driven car of colour. With this colour tool, it allows you to kind of factor that in and spray.

Alex (44:46.37)
Mm.

Alex (45:03.734)
Hmm.

Alex (45:09.29)
Fascinating, really fascinating. Thomas, thanks so much for sharing your expertise and giving us such valuable insights into the world of leather care and repair. Where do our listeners find you if they would like some of your services or advice?

Thomas Thai (45:24.655)
Yeah sure and for the other detailers feel free to message me on my Facebook page or my Instagram which is Perth underscore leather on Facebook it's just Perth leather Perth underscore space leather on Facebook yeah it's obviously Perth being where I'm located and leather is what we do and there's no one that I know of that has a similar Instagram name or Facebook name either.

Alex (45:51.162)
Yeah, I had success just Googling you and got a number one result in Facebook for Perth leather. So that's probably the easiest way to do it. Fantastic. Thomas look, thanks so much again, mate. Really, really appreciate your time today. I think it's a topic that and a discussion, hopefully everyone got great value out of.

Thomas Thai (45:54.619)
Yeah...

Thomas Thai (46:07.867)
Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Alex (46:09.29)
Brilliant. Thanks so much, Thomas. We'll talk again soon. Cheers, mate. See ya, bye.

Alex (46:20.598)
Hey man, we have... hang on.

Thomas Thai (46:21.599)
Yep.

Alex (46:26.675)
End session for all of-