Merit, Excellence & Intelligence (MEI): What the Acronym Gets Wrong

By now, you've heard some of the maligning, anti-DEI rhetoric in the news, media and different public spaces that are gaining traction around the nation.  In this episode, our hosts discuss a number of the contexts they are experiencing anti-DEI language and walk through the meaning of a new acronym touting Merit, Excellence and Intelligence (MEI) as the way to focus attention and resources, in the way DEI can and has.

Whether a first or long time listener, you know the power of words and their meanings within the work of Seven Focus, and as such, you can go back and listen to a number of episodes with great examples - just like this one!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Beyond the Training podcast. Hey, Jamie. Welcome. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Doing great. How are you today?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

I'm working on great. Almost at the end of my first cup of coffee. And so I think that's gonna get this morning started off really, really well. And speaking of starts, as we always do with the Beyond the Training podcast, let's start with telling each other something good. What's something good happening in your life right now, Jamie? You go first. I always go first. All right. Robert, what's something good happening in your life right now? I'll tell you. Thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

It's almost you didn't even give me a chance.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Oh, I didn't know you were gonna ask me.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

You said Google first and then you just went right into it. Um Robert, tell me something good today.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Awesome. I'm really excited because it's almost football season. So all of the things that I'm watching on YouTube and on uh different streaming apps, everybody's talking about football. And so I'm really excited that that's coming. So uh NFL or professional football is coming, college football is coming, high school football is coming. Uh, even little league. I see there's a there's a park down the street where the uh little leaguers are out there getting started. I'm like, yes, I can't wait. I do want to keep my summer around a little bit longer, and fall is right around the corner, and fall means football. That's what's good with me. What's good with you?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

I am going to a family reunion for a side of the family that I haven't really been connected with over the years. So I'm excited, but also maybe pensive, nervous about connecting with people I've never met before. But they are doing a um a history of that side of the family, uh, which I am excited to learn about. So um yeah, I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

I think you know this about me that the history is is really engaging and interesting to me. So if you're if you're gonna come away with like a family tree or a family like crest thing that kind of talks about all the different uncles and aunties and and grands that uh are in the family, that's gonna be really cool. I would invite you to share that when we when you come back.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Well do.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

What are we talking about today, Robert?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

You know, as diversity, equity, and inclusion practitioners, DEI practitioners, uh, there's a whole bunch of news about how our jobs, our livelihoods shouldn't exist anymore. Um, or that we oh sorry, I didn't know if that was going to be news to you, but that there are a lot of folks out there that say that we shouldn't do what we should do, uh, and that this woke work that we do is really harmful to uh what's happening in the world or how we want to educate our our our kids, our adults, our politicians, you know, and so I wonder what we should do about that. Wondering what we as practitioners can do in the face of such disagreement, such vehement um disapproval. You know what? That's the other I just said that. We're kind of like politicians. Like you're either on one side of the DEI aisle or on the other. Either you believe in it or you don't. Either you're in or out. Oh man, I haven't said that out loud. I is that the case? Is that what you feel like you're either in or you're out on DEI?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Maybe I I want to answer that question and I want to I giggled as you were saying that because I was thinking, who else is out there saying these DEI jobs are terrible? We need to nobody saying the marketing comms. Why whoever invented marketing comms? Nobody's creating an opposition to marketing, nobody's creating an opposition to HR roles. Um, and then you talked about politicians, and I'm like, well, maybe I don't know that people are fans of politicians. Um and so maybe we are more like politicians. And in some ways, wow, this is a really fascinating metaphor. In some ways, we are exactly like politicians because we have to be incredibly mindful of who's in the room, what to say, what not to say sometimes, so that we keep people engaged. Politicians want to keep voters. Um, and so we're trying to keep people on our side and and how they do that. Um so I giggle because it's it's just comical that this is the place we're in and the state we're in. And I think I've shared this with you before, um, and and maybe not, but more often than not now when people ask what I do, if it's people I don't know, if it's just small talk, I just say I'm in leadership consulting because I don't know what side they're on. I don't know if they're once I say D and I, their brain immediately goes to you, you're the problem with everything in this world. And um yeah, I just don't you know some people will say, no, you have to lean into your truth when I'm buying coffee. I just want my coffee. I don't want you to spit in my coffee because you devalue the work that I do. Um I don't want any of you know the extra sauce and my food. Um so yeah, it's just it's a sucky place to be in right now, Robert, as a as a DI person, um, at least from my perspective. Um, because there's literally millions of people that don't believe we should exist in our roles, that our roles should exist.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Millions. That would be wild to know that millions of people don't want you to do what you do. That's and I'm I'm sure it's I'm sure you're right, because there are other positions, uh roles that we would talk about, uh have talked about that maybe shouldn't exist anymore. So man, millions of people are anti this this work that we're doing. You and you know what's what's interesting? This is why differences make a difference. So you and I are different people, we have different stature, we have different backgrounds, and certainly when people see us, they interact with us differently. I want all the smoke. I was uh when you were talking, I was just thinking that I think it's a Taylor Swift song, something like Um Hi, it's me, I'm the problem. Is that or something like that? Or Billy Eilish.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

It's me, I'm the problem. It's is that how it goes?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

I don't I don't know. I didn't expect singing on the pod today.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Um I was trying to remember it via the song, but I am not a Swifty. Not that I dislike Taylor Swift, yeah, Swifty.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, well, so you know the you know the song I'm talking about, or Billy Eilish's uh I'm the bad guy, right? I tell people all the time, yeah, I run diversity, equity, and inclusion work, or um, I'm a speaker and I speak about diversity, equity, and inclusion, or something, some version of that. It's a mouthful, and at the same time, I I use that as a tool. Like, oh yeah, you I I wish you would, I wish you would say something about anti-DEI. And because I'm bigger than a lot of people who are also in the coffee shop because I'm taller and certainly blacker than most of the people that are like, hey, what do you do? What do you do? What do you do? The answer that I get is, oh, that's nice. And no, I don't ever get to hear if people are actually anti. The only people that are, and this is an interesting statistic that I'm gonna just start to keep data on, are people who are white and male and think they know me, right? We already have a relationship, and then they tell me about their anti-DEI ness in coded ways, but I don't get much of that. Yeah, I don't get much of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

I I as you were talking, I have an example that I I've already shared with you, and I'll share here. Um I am on a board, and um there is a person who because of my position in the board and their position in the board, it's important that we talk. And this person knows that I have a DI background, that that's what I do for my job. I have a business around it, et cetera, et cetera. Um and so I reached out to this person via email, um, along with some others in separate emails to say would love to find some time, to have to c some coffee, to connect. No response. I know this person got the email because they told somebody else they got the email. Um, and that person told me that they had said, Yeah, I got it. Um, and I don't know if I'm gonna respond. Uh then a few weeks later I called this person to try to reach out, didn't get a response back. Sent an email again to this person, didn't get a response back. They proceeded to tell somebody else they know they owe me. This is like over the course of like a month, a month or two. Right. Proceeded to tell somebody else, I know I owe Jamie a response, I'll do that tonight. That was weeks ago. I've not heard from this person still. My heart and my gut tells me it's because I'm a DEI person. And it's because they think I'm a DEI placement. So we've heard that out here. That's a DI hire. I imagine that they think the only reason that I'm in this role is because I'm a woman of color on this board. Um, so one I'm the DI I do think that I do believe people say, oh, you're just the DI police. You're here to police all of our words and language. We can't do anything right. So I think that they don't want to engage with me because of that, as well as they likely have some biases and think I'm a DI placement. Um so I have real-lived experience of people actively avoiding me. Uh this is a white male actively avoiding me because of the work I do, um, the perspectives I have, um, and in the roles that I am in.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I'm wondering where we should take this conversation because part of me wants to dig into whether or not you feel like there might be some power in how you present and what you do and how you do it. And then the other piece of me is thinking about how that kind of treatment contributes to imposter syndrome for people, especially folks that are uh the one, the only one, the only woman, the only uh Mexican-American woman, the only uh person with their particular background in a particular group. And and so I just um there are so many different ways to go about it. So what I'll say, or I ask Jamie, what I'll ask is is what are you gonna do now that you have this weeks-long issue going on in a place where you have to work? I mean, well, you know, you don't have to be on the board, but this is the work that you're doing, you've chosen to do, and and you have the the talents and skills and abilities that this particular organization needs, but and you also have this issue with this person. What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I don't know the answer to that. I think about that often. I don't know. My ego side wants to say, cool, I don't need to talk to you, I won't talk to you. We can be in the same spaces and move around each other. Um professional side, I don't maybe that's problematic in itself. That's where I'm starting. Um it says that I'll smile and nod and pretend as if nothing happened the next time I see you. Um if I was coaching somebody, I would likely coach them to say um or coach them to ask if they wanted to just face it head on. Um I know that you've not been responsive to my calls. Tell me more about the reasoning behind that and getting curious about that. And then I go back to I shouldn't have to do that. I I to your point around imposter syndrome, I don't want to get in a place where I continue to give, give, give and lean in and lean in and lean in and allow a white male to continue to show up in the ways that are harmful. Um, so I don't I don't know yet. Um, I will say that I've seen this person in the interim, and I showed up and I said, Hey, good to see you. Um, I was hugging other people today, so I said, Are we are we hugging? And and he we went in for a small little hug. And um that I don't believe that that was the place to corner this person and dig deeper. Um I also know that this person has been responsive to other people um on the board. Um so I don't know. I I'm grappling with how I want to show up, anyways, in this instance. Um, and my ego says, um don't let them win. And and I don't know what winning means. So all that to say, I part of why I say I'm just in leadership. Um, and and it's not when I'm in professional settings, I for sure introduce myself um that way. But again, when I'm just getting coffee or just meeting somebody for the first time, not from you know, out out outside of work. Um, I just say leadership consulting. Um and it sucks to be it sucks to always see coming across our screens Kamala Harris, DI hire. Um mayor of Baltimore, Mayor, mayor of Baltimore, DI hire. Um if anybody, woman, person of color, um, anybody with a traditionally marginalized identity gets fired, it gets blamed on because they were a DI hire, because they weren't qualified. We could have told you that. Um, the I believe the um I can't remember the actual title, but a woman somewhere in the United States government just stepped down and immediately people said it's because it was a DI hire, which right under that we we know the implicit messages and explicit messages are you never were qualified anyways, you only got the job because you were a woman. You never were qualified anyways, you only got the job because you're black, you only got the job because of et cetera, et cetera. Um, you know, or Elon Musk saying that um he doesn't want to fly in planes with black pilots, um, or or whatever it may be. So um people suck.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Hashtag uh people suck. That's probably not the t-shirt that we want to have uh everybody wearing, although I think I've probably seen the bumper sticker like that before. When you were talking earlier, I was going to suggest that we do get a t-shirt that says I do DEI, because I would definitely wear that t-shirt. But I can understand if you don't want that and you're getting your coffee of people coming up and talking stuff about you or putting in the special sauce that you were talking about. So I don't know. I I want I I would want that for you. I'd want you to be able to be proud about the way that you're working to change the world. Uh, you know, uh doctors, teachers, uh firefighters, they can proudly say who what they what they do. Perhaps politicians can't, and maybe even police officers can't. But uh, other than those two jobs, I can't think of any other ones that people are like, oh man, I can't believe you do that for work.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

It's interesting. I thought you were finished. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Even people who you know dig ditches or uh uh work in sewers, that people are going, well, you know, it's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it. Uh most jobs aren't like that when someone goes, Oh, you do that. That that's that's a job we don't want in this world. Uh most folks don't have that situation.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

For sure. And I I I don't know that I'm associating being proud with my job and whether or not I tell people what I do. I don't know that those go together. I am incredibly proud of what I do. Um I'm not hiding it. I mean, it's on my LinkedIn, we have a podcast around it. Um, and and it's similar to maybe I'm proud that both you and I are award-winning DI practitioners. When I'm getting a coffee and somebody says, What do you do? Well, I'm an award-winning. Doesn't right. I'm proud of that, but I'm I don't have to tell everybody about it. Um, so I am proud of it. And and here's the other thing. What I'm also wanting to really get away from, and it is so hard vulnerably. I'm I like fumble my way through this, is not always asking people what they do and try to ask other questions. Because it's always, hi, how are you? Oh, yeah, what kind of line of work are you in? Versus what makes you happy? Or um what matters to you? Um, what are you getting into this weekend? But it always goes to work and we center ourselves, we've center our lives around work. Um, so some of it also is my attempt to not center everything we do around our work.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

For sure. I see that. And that's the difference between our egos. My ego says this is what I do, and I'm gonna wear a badge and I want a shiny hat that tells you what it is that I want you to know about me. And yeah, maybe I can do some work on not uh using my ego first or having my ego show up first. I I definitely can do that. And at the same time, Jamie, though, we also teach folks uh how to be practitioners, how to lead these conversations uh in their workspaces, in um in their families, even sometimes. And so the way that we have to move in the world, helping people to see the importance of working towards equity for all of us, uh, we got to be out and proud. I don't know how to do it without being out and proud, even though, even in the face of such vitriol from our government officials to our some of our teachers and educators, and then you know, the the regular quote regular public. Even though that's the case, I feel like we just gotta be out and proud about that. And especially if the coming, the looming election changes whether or not we're allowed to be because uh in in the DEI spaces because of the law, the law of the land. I feel like I must still have to do that. We're gonna still have to do that even more so because the wave of uh popular uh opinion around diversity, equity, and inclusion is just gonna get bigger.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

For sure. Uh there's and there's two things that I want, especially to this idea of it's gonna get bigger, um, that I am very comfortable talking about with anybody who wants to talk about it. So to your point around like I'm ready for the smoke, um, is that the the sentiment that anybody who's from a traditionally or historically marginalized group got the job because of that identity and not because they're qualified for it. And so that we've we've talked about it already today, but I want us to talk about what do we do about that? What do we do when we see that or hear that? So the sentiment of that's a DI hire. And we know that not only does that exist on Twitter and Instagram, but we work with clients who have said, I know people are experiencing that here in this company, that somebody will get hired and somebody says to them, Oh, you're the DEI hire. Um, so I want to talk about that. I also want to talk about the I don't know that this is getting much traction um yet. I mean, I I've seen it on my social media feeds, is the opposition to DEI's acronym being MEI, which stands for meritocracy, excellence, and intelligence. Um, and so I want to dig into those two things. And we just have a few minutes left. So which one do you want to?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Well, both. I'm a both and kind of guy. I think you know that about me. So, right out the gate, if someone is saying uh another person is a DEI hire, especially inside the organization, to me, that is at the very least classified as a microaggression and at the very most um anti their uh personage, their ability to be a person, and therefore should be a violation of whatever standards of behavior that that particular organization has. And so depending upon I'm talking to those of you who are out there in the world in organizations that have values or standard uh behavior or some kind of behavioral code that says you should respect people. I'm sure you got that in your company's charter. It's disrespect. And if you're going to allow disrespect in your organization, then uh those values that you espouse don't even count. And so, in that the one group, uh the one client that you're thinking about that we're both thinking about, Jamie, that's what I want to say. Like, if you're gonna allow that to be the case and not have accountability for the words that someone Someone says that might harm someone else in their own personage and their own ability to show up as a person that knows how to do the job that they were hired to do, and that you're going to set the tone that it's only because of their uh uh race or uh orientation or neuro distinction, uh, then the person who said it should be gone. If that's not the case, if that's not how you're working, then I don't think that person should be working there. Like you don't actually are, you're not actually holding up your values that you say that you're that you're holding up, and therefore I don't trust you, I don't believe what it is that you say that you're saying about wanting to do this work. That is my immediate thought when hearing the phrase you're a diversity hire, or they are the diversity hire.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah, I have no disagreements there. And what I would offer to our listeners is if maybe we have listeners that are have said that's a DI hire, maybe they haven't verbalized it, maybe they've said it in their minds. Um really get to where is that coming from and why am I believing that? Um when you if you see it on the Instagrams or the Twitters of the world, is it Twitter anymore?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

It's called X, but that's okay. We're not getting sponsored by them at the moment, so that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Um whatever the social media platform that you use these days and whatever it's called, when you see that, if you traditionally engage with comments, push back on that, challenge that. Um and know that 100% of the time when somebody says that's a D I hire, to your point, it's a microaggression. It's coming from a bias, it's coming from a place of bad intent. Um and work to, you know, internally combat any biases that you have.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

You know what's interesting about that? I was thinking about I've often talked about the college that I went to. I got in because I know for a fact that the color of my skin impacted the decision to have me come to that school.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

So Me too. Oh and I went to the same school.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

So affirmative action. Uh the reason that I know that affirmative action was a part of my admittance to that particular school is because of the way that the school responded after I was there. So then their celebration of the 19 black individuals, African-American individuals who were on that campus of 2,000 people, uh, and and the amount of money that I was given uh or afforded uh to go to that school, all of those things point to the fact that if I wasn't, especially because they're you know, we were 19 out of 2,000 kids, so uh they were trying to improve uh their numbers with regard to uh blackness and brownness, I'm sure. I that almost means that I'm if I'm saying that affirmative action was a benefit of mine, then that makes me the DEI higher or the DEI uh student. And so that kind of puts this conversation on on the on its head, except that when you said MEI, uh help me again, meritocracy or merit.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I think it's merit.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah, merit, excellence, intelligence. Intelligence. So I also think, I also know that I would not have been able to get into that school if I hadn't demonstrated throughout high school how much merit, right? My GPA, my my accolades there, academic accolades. Um, I don't know that excellence is the word that I would use for me. There is some white supremacy in that concept of excellence and perfection, but certainly you said integrity is the eye.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Intelligence. Oh, well, both uh would have been demonstrated through my high school years. And when you go to college, you have to demonstrate all those. Some of those colleges are looking for volunteer community service, they're looking for academic excellence or uh accolades, they're looking for uh can you, you know, I happen to carry a job at the same time. I was uh student athlete. So if I didn't click the button that said black, I had a great shot at getting into that school because all of my classmates, all of our classmates had very similar records. But I don't know that I can escape the fact that my blackness helped.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

This feels like it needs to be another podcast. I I want to disagree with you, but I'm trying to pinpoint where where I'm disagreeing with you at. And yeah, I don't I I know that that the college still is working on diversifying it today to this day. Um and maybe some of the part of me that wants to argue with you is that I don't want to believe that I was the DI recruit.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Um because because you don't want to, you don't want it to your own, you don't want to be boiled down to only that which makes you different from the dominant culture dominant I uh narrative.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Yeah, yep. I I want to believe that I did, to your point, work really hard uh to get access. Um I I mean I and now I'm giggling to myself because I played basketball there and I'm five foot tall. And maybe that really did, not my height. My height sure didn't get me into the basketball program. Uh, but maybe the fact that I was the only person of color in that program helps me.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

I'm a both and guy. I think I said that earlier. I'm a both end. And so is it that's the conversation we need to have next time. Is it both that you had the merit and the academic excellence and the intelligence that and the athletic ability and the athletic ability that wasn't in the acronym, but okay, I appreciate you adding that in there. Athletic ability, as well as the background being from the or with the ethnicity and the identities that you have that got you in. Can it be both rather than you're just I think that's the distinction, you're just the DEI or you're just the affirmative action hire or recruit. It's we recruited you because you're who we want, because what we don't have are people like you. Can it be both?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

For sure. And in some ways, I've thought of the MEI acronym, and I'm like, yeah, that's a good acronym. I deserve to be here just like you. I've worked hard. Um yeah, I'm excellent. And I I hear your point around um the term excellent, but and yeah, I'm incredibly intelligent. Cool, we don't disagree, Elon Musk. I mean, we do disagree on a lot of stuff, but um and it his the the challenge I find with the acronym is that it implies that because you have the job, you didn't you don't deserve it, you're not excellent and you're unintelligent. Um DI is saying that we should hire underqualified Elon Musk's perspective says that DEI means hiring underqualified, unintelligent, non-deserving candidates. And and you and I both know that that's not true. And maybe that's my my challenge with thinking am I the DI, was I the DI admission at my college? Um I deserved it. I should have been there just like everybody else. Um I I am I was intelligent. Um I got an A minus in my final thesis. Oh wow would have allowed me to present it, but there was something in there that I guess they just didn't want me to present. Um uh on my final capstone, but um it's a whole nother podcast on my capstone, my thesis. Uh Robert, what's the one thing we want people to take away from this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

If you don't know what DEI means, write this down. At Seven Focus, we believe that diversity equals difference. That's it. So those of you who are upset about whose job is a black job, whose job is a uh Hispanic job, whose job is a not that American job, you're talking about differences. Oh, you're in the diversity game. Those folks who uh want to talk about inclusion, you're talking about who has a place at the table and what do they do at that table, having a voice at the table. So if you want to have a voice because your people haven't been heard, you're talking about inclusion. Ha ha. Diversity is difference. Inclusion is having a voice uh at the table or a seat at the table and a voice at the table. And then equity is making sure that people have what it is that they need in order to thrive. And so if you're upset about your people or your group not having what it is that you need and wanting something specific for your people to get what it is that they need, now you're talking about equity. So those of us who are out there, the millions and millions of people who are anti-DEI are actually talking about it every day and just found something that some uh acronym to try to make themselves sound important and intelligent when in fact they're actually DEI practitioners themselves. That's what I'd leave you with.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I don't have anything better than that today to leave the audience with. Um, thank you, Robert. It's been um, as always, a really good conversation with you. I hope listeners out there agree and are enjoying. Either way, send us feedback at impact at sevenfocus.com. Hit us up on the text line. Um support your local DI practitioner. Be on the lookout for uh um article from us here at Seven Ways as how you can support your local DI practitioner, whether it's in your company, in your organization, um, friends, colleagues, etc. But um as we continue to be attacked for the work that we do, show up and be an ally.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

This has been the Beyond the Training Podcast. Thank you so much for being here. Hit us up at impact at seven focus.com if you want to engage. And we will see you next time.