25 Years of Work: What Training Actually Changed for Me

In this episode we hear from a member of our Seven Focus community about her experiences in diversity, equity and inclusion training spaces.  In a time when DEI training is under fire, being shifted from U.S. Federal Government priority, and as several corporate and community serving organizations consider their work, this is a timely conversation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Beyond the Training podcast, where we really work hard on thinking about our intentions, which are probably good, and moving to great impact, which we know have the kind of ripple effects that we want on our communities, our relationships, and all those things. And so we've got a guest with us today. Hey Tiff, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hey, Robert. I'm doing well. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:21

I'm doing quite well. Very excited for today's conversation. Thank you for coming on the pod. Will you just give our uh listeners a little bit of uh an introduction to yourself? Uh, who are you? Uh, who are you to your community? What should we know about you?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Absolutely. And thanks for having me on. I really appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Um, I'm Tiffany Fitzgerald. I have been a laborer for 25 years, which is wild. I was thinking about that today. I've been in the workforce for 25 years. And over that time, I have been involved in informal efforts, you know, just hourly workers getting together and talking about pay equity or unfair practices. I've been in unions as a teaching assistant at two universities. I have been really lucky to be been through a lot of unconscious bias trainings, DEI trainings. I participate in employee resource groups. I'm always an eager participant. So I would say, you know, within my work communities, I'm always really involved in what it takes to make our workspaces better for everybody. And then outside of work, you know, I'm a parent to three kiddos. I really love. I have a great partner. And we try to stay really active in our communities as well, in the same way, reaching out, looking for opportunities to do mutual aid, et cetera. So it's definitely work I try to bring inside work and outside too.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Dope. And uh really do appreciate you taking time away from the fam. So shout out to the kiddos and your partner uh for taking time with us here on this pod. I I don't usually get more information out of a uh an introduction, but I gotta ask, you said you've been a laborer for 25 years. And then you went on to say you've been in the workforce for 25 years. And so I was trying to do the math. Are we all laborers? Is that what you're saying? All of us that work for a wage, we are laborers, or were you trying to say something else?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

That is what I did think about that today. I was like, you know, when I first thought about my introduction, I was going to start with what I think we would call a professional career. And I thought about that colloquialism, and it was so inaccurate. You know, I'd been working so much longer than past when I finally got my college degree. And a lot of that work before I graduated from college, you know, really shaped who I am as somebody in the workforce because I started in jobs where you're hourly. I started in jobs where your hours get rounded down, or, you know, somebody walks out on a check and it gets taken out of your paycheck and you're working overtime, but they're shorting your overtime. And those things really informed who I am in the workforce today. So I thought that word really encapsulated the whole arc. So yeah, I guess I think we are all laborers.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, okay. All right. So this is not what we came to talk about, but this happens on our pod all the time. That that someone will say something really interesting. And I'm like, I wanted to really deeply into that. Uh, so those folks who are listening, they know that that's they're just probably doing the eye roll as they listen. And that's that's okay. So CEOs and and and uh leaders of industry, they get paid for their work. You can't see me putting it into quotes, but I'll put that into quotes. Are they two laborers, or is it just the rest of us that are out here?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

That is such a great question that we probably don't have enough time to completely unpack. I would say there's so many different perspectives to that. My my gut reaction, my knee-jerk reaction is like, no.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I had a feeling.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, like we're the workers, we're the we're who would re-unite. If you're the person who would unite, then you're you're in this group. And if you're the person who's being united against, um, then you're not. I think, you know, some philosophers and thought leaders on this would say, yeah, you are at any level. You just maybe farther removed from thinking that you are because you've accumulated more wealth in the process. Um, and so maybe then you don't understand your own place in the process as intimately as you do when you have to kind of scrape by a little bit more, or you're farther removed from the privilege of getting to make the higher-up decisions. So I don't know. It's such a good question.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

I yeah. So I I mean, if you're open to it, we haven't even done our episode yet, but if you're open to it, we just had to come back to uh have you come back for another episode because this would be a fascinating one to get into. Um, a shout out to Sarah, uh, but just before I got on this call, Sarah and I were having a conversation about the golden handcuffs. And uh, you're kind of naming that, right? That the privilege that we have, the payments that we make, move us further and further away from who it is that may have defined us, or you said that we're foundational to who you are, and that means something when we're making decisions and choices and have options and privileges that we got to be working through. And I think that's that deserves a whole conversation. So we'll get there. You uh you you're gonna come on back and we can talk about that later.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Oh, I would love to. That sounds like a conversation that's right up my alley.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Dope. Okay. All right. So to be continued, uh, everybody check back to the to that particular conversation. Tiv, before we get into what we actually came to talk about, how's your mental health?

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Oh, thanks for asking, Robert. Um it's it's I wanted to say I feel really peaceful lately, and I realize that there's always this sort of deep-seated anxiety right now because we are always going through a lot of change, and there's a lot of change that's on the immediate horizon right now that I've definitely been feeling in our kind of global and national collective consciousness that is weighing on me. Um, and then really close to me and my family, we're going through a really peaceful time right now this month. So I'm trying to focus on that placidity because it doesn't happen all the time. Everybody who is in a family or just even whatever your family structure is, you know how rare it is to have these kind of peaceful periods. Focusing there, but it I would be lying if I said that it's all that. There's definitely like just a little knot of anxiety that is related to more national and global things happening. How about you?

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Well, thank you for asking that. And I a love peace for you. Uh, I I hope that continues uh for a long, long time. I I was actually all day today thinking about my own mental health because I had so many conversations just today about the anxiety, the dread, the knots in people's stomachs and hearts and throats that they're dealing with. And so that's that's kind of all around me. And I've my job, part of my job uh in the roles that I play is to hear about those knots, that anxiety, to recognize it and not recognize it like a therapist, but um uh appreciate it and and and to uh give validity validity to it. And at the same time, I I know on the other end of that anxiety is still the work. We still got work to do. Uh, no matter whether what what even if the worst possible thing happens that we are dreading and that we're anxious about, we still have work to do. And it's hard for me to say that in a situation where a person is really sharing and burying their vulnerable selves. But that's what helps me uh in my own mental health is that I have a shovel, I got a hammer, um, uh I got my work boots on, and I'm ready to fight uh or work or do both at the same time, knowing that the worst possible thing might happen, or something between nothing at all and and and the worst possible thing is is very possible. Anything that is in there. So I'm just ready, I'm ready to go. Uh uh after the election, I said I was in fight mode. I still feel like I am. Um, and at the same time, being around a lot of folks for whom this is a moment of dread and anxiety, not peace. That all the words of not peace that you that you are thankfully um experiencing. That's where I'm at. So I don't know if that's a good thing, if that's a bad thing, but I'm very aware of fight mode and work mode too. I got my work boots on, and at the same time, I'm in fight mode.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, I really love that you've got your work boots on. I think that a lot of people who are in my very close community, you know, my friends and family, we are trying to focus on that too. What can we do? What's in our proxy to do? How can we tap into still hope, joy, all those things that we need to fuel us? Because you're right, the work doesn't stop. We got to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

For sure. Well, and in in that same vein, uh, the DEI work, diversity, equity, and inclusion, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, diversity, equity, inclusion and advocacy, diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice and belonging and access, all those, all those things. That work is going to continue too. Uh, even if it becomes illegal to say the acronym DEI, we know this work is gonna continue. And that's really what I want to focus our conversation on today with you, Tiff. I'm curious if we could start with some of the positives, maybe uh sandwich it, uh sandwich the the negatives with the positives um and and maybe some future thoughts, some future thinking. Because in your work and in your life and your as a just as a human being, uh you've undoubtedly experienced diversity, equity, inclusion training. And so I'm really curious, we're really curious. If you had a favorite or most memorable moment in a DEI training or program that has impacted you and your work since, would you share it with us? What was it? Uh, and I probably will have some follow-up questions as you describe it.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Absolutely. I was thinking about how lucky I am while you were at while you were asking that question. I've had so many wonderful moments in the trainings that I've gotten to have over the years. But one particular moment really stands out because it's connected to that impact. You're talking about something I took with me uh for years to come. It was when I was working at a large system. I was helping to lead the um internal comms department. And I joined this pilot group, and we were working together, you know, to try to see if could this be a program that could continue. And really at that time, and I don't, I don't think I realized it until I was retrospective about it, I really felt like my job was to be there, to listen, to witness, to be a strong advocate for this program, to participate, absolutely, and but to really learn and grow. And it really wasn't to share my own experiences. And um, and that's that was sort of how I had always approached DEI and unconscious biases training up until that point was that I come from a lot of privilege. I'm in this space to learn. I need to keep my ears open, I need to keep my mouth shut, I get plenty of talking, you know, talk when it's appropriate, participate when it's appropriate, but really like I'm here to learn. And while we were doing this pilot program, um, a lot of things happened in the world. COVID started, social activism uprising, you know, in response to police killings and brutality. I was in a command center a lot, which is like I was really isolated. I was working really long hours, and I was in rooms at tables where really, really serious things were getting discussed. And I got to hear it because it wasn't planned. I got to hear a lot of the leaders and executives talk about it. And when they were talking about it, it was so messy. What they were saying was so discouraging. And I realized I was really, you know, now I realized looking back, I was getting really depressed. It was my first corporate position. Um and I was starting to feel like they that it didn't matter what you thought as an employee because you had no voice, you could yell as as loud as you wanted and nobody could hear you. And I was really in this alone. I was cycling through it alone. And we had a virtual session as a group, and a lot of the group was talking about how much faith they had in leadership and and how they really felt like they that the leaders had a good finger on the pulse of what was going on, and they were really judging it on things that I had written. And I could feel this breaking point happen, and I knew I kept telling myself, like, Tiff, don't say anything. And I couldn't anymore. And I just shared with them all the things I was feeling. I mean, I definitely didn't break the confidence of my leaders, but really shared from just me. I'm not feeling that way. I took this huge leap of faith. It was a trust moment, and it was quiet for a second after I shared, and I was just kind of scared. Like maybe they were gonna be like, too bad. Like it's get back to it, you know, like you have privilege, get back to it. And instead, I was immediately enveloped, just immediately like believed, you know, even though what I said had just been counter to what was said, I was believed. And most importantly, action came out of it. It was immediate that the folks who were in this room were like, let's do something, you know, let's do something about this. Let's we should let our leaders know what we feel, how we feel, that there's this discordance between what we feel and what they feel. And it was such a beautiful moment for me. I felt like I was just kind of allowing myself to slip into the movement of this group and not be watching it or observing it or learning from it, but really be a part of it. And I think it saved me too and has impacted me as I've continued in the corporate world and continued to do the work and continued to come across the same obstacles and objections to remember this moment and know that we have power together, you know, we have power in these safe spaces. Um, they're so important, they're so intangible and invaluable. And if I can just look for those spaces, if I can just look for the people who are doing the work, I'll never be alone. And we can always do something together. We'll always get listened to together. It might not always be the outcome we want, but we don't have to do the work alone. And I just really appreciated the space that we had to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Oh man. So, hey, thank you for sharing the story. Uh, I as you were talking about being in the room and saying the things after everybody else had talked, I had this uh vision of like uh, you know, uh, you know, in the movies they they always have the Alcoholics Anonymous uh circle, and and everybody goes around, they've kind of said their thing, and then you you're the one person, you're the one character that says the opposite of what everybody else had just said, and now they're now the single frame is on you and everybody's watching you and it's all um silent. I was I had that in my mind. If the feeling is because you have so many people in your organization that the one person can yell as loud as they can and they'll never be heard, I can imagine that can be frightening than to be in a room and say, This is what how I feel that is different than the rest of you. So I'm I'm curious. I have I have a two-part question for you. What was it about the people in the room or the DEI training itself that got you in that room that gave you the opportunity to think that it was okay to risk what you were risking? And then you also named at the at the very top, you named you'd been told, or somehow you understood to be seen and not heard in spaces. And I'm I'm wondering how you got that message because those are two very different messages. I wonder where they came from.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

The message to be seen and not heard is is a self message for sure. It's a message I've told myself probably since my very first training when it was like if you open a door and there's a fierce wind tunnel behind the door. That was my first training, was just to open this door and be blown back by these truths that I had realized for the very first time in my life, I'm not listening. You know, I have just been totally ignorant to so many things. And so it was my own thing. Like it was my own learning to say, and now from here on out, I'm going to listen. So it wasn't anything anybody told me. It was really that it benefited me a lot to listen to people in training spaces. And my story, my narrative, um, I certainly carry my own things with me, you know, but I have a lot of privilege as a white woman. And my story gets told a lot. There are lots of different stories about my the way that I present, you know, my identity. So it's not hard to make leaps and believe different things from my story. I was there to listen to stories that don't get told. I was there to learn and grow. And so that was really the time where it was like, you are closing yourself off to the opportunity to do real work when you are not doing that, when you're not approaching it from such one dimension, really. The biggest change was outside of the unions I had been a part of. And I had also been through a very long-term training with the YWCA when I had been a sexual assault nurse examination supportive. The spaces that get created when you get to meet on a cadence and you are working through things together more than once, more than in one hour or one and a half hours a year, that allows you to know everybody in the room in this more complex way than you would have judged coming into the room. And so by the point that I really needed my group to be with me, I knew them a lot better and I understood them. I understood their own depths and their own complexities. I also think I was burned out. I mean, I was trying to do the right things in these spaces with leaders. Um, but my job really at that time was not to have a voice at the table, it was really to write down what the voices were saying at the table and then, you know, put them into a speaker, basically. Um, and so at this specific moment, I just remember being really disappointed in myself that that people in this room were quoting back my words to me, and that that was giving them false confidence. I felt responsible for that. You know, I have a really close friend who's also in communications, and they always say to me, there's this part of them that doesn't want to be a mouthpiece for executives. They want to go ahead, like not edit them rather, like just let them say what they were gonna say, because that's gonna incite the anger necessary to have the movements against them. Instead, I was really editing. I would be like, oh, don't say that. You should say this. And then that is what was creating this faith, this trust. And so in that moment, I was feeling really angry at myself, at the process, um, burned out, just raw and ready to let go of some of that weight.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Well, your uh your colleague has there's there's something in what your colleague is sharing, because if we look at our politicians, especially those that are governing, by the time everybody listens to this particular pod, uh the leader of the land of the United States does do that unfiltered, unedited speech uh and tweeting and all of that. And so there might be something to it, except that the on the back end of what they were advising is that then the things will rise up against them. And we have yet to see that actually happen in on a on a larger scale. You mentioned in smaller spaces, we definitely are seeing folks doing the work uh to undo the capitalist supremist uh efforts that continue to rise up um and have been uh for decades. I'm curious then uh if you would say that that the thing that made it the difference for you in that room was community. You said you got to know people. Um you over more than one hour a year, I th I heard you say that. Um you get so it wasn't their first day that you were dropping the the knowledge in the room. Um so you had to take time to get to know people, and it and it's it sounds like to me building community. Is that how you would summarize that?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

100%, yeah. And um that is everything to be able to have that same group there, build that community. That's um, that's what puts that foundation for trust in place.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

In that story, there's a lot that we, those of us who are on this call that are leading or um coordinating diversity, equity, and inclusion work can be building around and building into. What would you say you'd you'd tell us all not to do? What's one thing you'd want us diversity, equity, and inclusion practitioners or leaders or trainers or whatever uh is in the title? Uh, and even those of us who are out here who had to change our title for one reason or another, but we're still doing the same work, what's one thing you would tell us not to do or to stop doing?

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Such a hard question because there's so many things that we see that might be on that wish list that I know are not the fault of DEI practitioners. So if I put a large chunk of those aside, which may be things like don't have it just be an hour and a half a year, or um, I think it works better when you bring somebody in and you are able to at least virtually or in person get together as a group to have to build those communities. I know from experience how difficult it is to get any DEI training into place, any program. One thing I would say, just keep doing, please just keep doing what you're doing. We need you. Specific for DEI practitioners who are embedded within organizations and hold leadership positions in DEI programs. We have found community either through ERGs or organically. We've identified a need, we've gotten organized. And one of the first things we've done is to go reach out to these leaders to get support. And those leaders sometimes happened twice, have said, you go try because I've tried and nothing works. And that is one thing that I wish if anybody's listening and they they feel, they really feel that way, that way where they would answer in that way. Take a beat because you can do something, you can lean in in some way. And I have no doubt that it feels like you're not getting listened to or you don't have an impact, but you're in a group of people, a community, like we were talking about just a second ago, who are ready to give, to breathe new energy. Um, but you know, we need you. We can't, we can't go do it without you. If you, if you are a part of the organization and the organization has invested in DEI and you're the leader of that program, we do need you with us. So that that was the one thing I thought over, you know, the last many, many years, that was a real barrier that didn't need to be a barrier.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Stop getting in the way.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

But by not stop getting in the way by not getting into the work or the fight or whatever the word is.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Interesting. And so those other things, before you said that, you you said those other things aren't necessarily the fault of the practitioner. So how long, what the duration is, uh, those are the things that you would also want either to stop doing, stop being a social or stop being uh whatever this content is.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

I also, it's a personal thing, but I really detest that we have to couch all of the material in this framework that is like corporate ROI framework. And I know that that has to happen. I know that the content likely had to get vetted by the executive leaders and it's in a workplace, of course. But to me, when we're starting with intro slides and it's all about the kind of monetization that can happen through DEI and the frameworks, sort of consultant-esque frameworks come right out the gate. I think that's hard for people who are starting out to jump right into and have their attention grabbed as their first kind of DEI moment, potentially. And that is something I know can't necessarily change either, because the content has to be really tailored. Those frameworks really have to be in place. We have to explain why it's happening in the workplace. And I wish it were just more organic and evident to everybody why we're doing the work. Um, but that's one thing that I always find a little alienating as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I hear you. And DEI work or the person you suggested comes from the outside in, costs money. And so if it's gonna cost us money to bring that person in, to have them share the things, then they better have a slide or two about what this money is going to go to or lead to. Because uh, in our capitalist societies, that's the bottom, the bottom line is the bottom line. And so, whatever we're doing, whether we're buying more widgets or uh another machine to build us a widget, or we're bringing this person to do some kind of uh uh TED talk, there better be some return on that investment. Otherwise, we put this money out there for what? For what purpose? You as a laborer, as you mentioned earlier, those are the people that are building the widgets. So if they're gonna take time away from building those widgets from doing the labor, uh, we need to know what what the purpose is for. And and as a person who has put those slides together so that the the people uh at the top of the organization who invited me to come and do my TED talk uh will invite me back. I I don't know what else to do. I I wondered while you were talking about that, Tiff. I was thinking, I wonder if developing countries have DEI trainings in their organization. I and I don't I I've never I can't say that I've never been to a developing country, but I never have visited one, not as a tourist. So I don't even have an experience to lean into. But I wonder if a developing country is having a diversity, equity, and/or inclusion conversation, talking about belonging. And if they do bring people in or have someone who's uh got a title like like mine, let's just posit that capitalism is not driving how they operate. Let's say it's more communal, let's say it's more focused on um building as as a community and and not so focused on the ones and zeros and that human beings are uh humanized. I wonder if they talk about this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

And it and it sounds so peaceful to me to have any of those zeros and ones and be a part of community. We just get so alienated from the why so often. And you're right, you do need the slides. Um, at the end of the day, all of that obfuscation, I think we all know gets in the way, but we have to do it anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, agreed. But I did just have this beautiful thought. And I was thinking, I wonder if we tried to like have a conversation with those folks about diversity, equity, and inclusion. I wonder what they'd say. They would probably what?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Probably laugh. And yeah, I was gonna say, you know, question our construct of developing versus developed as, you know, how destructive the developed nations are, point out how removed we are from our own humanity, our humanness, nature, each other. And um, you know, I I'm sure no people, no people or country or island for that matter is a monolith.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

True.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

But I think the further you can get away from what I'm in, specifically in my workplace, you know, um, I'm not gonna work at a great company, but I'm also like very much in tech. I'm in a world we made up that we continue to make up. And I'm not connected at all to my community and my land in a very tangible way. And so I wonder that too. I wonder if they would just say, we do that every day, you know? We precisely we think about that all the time because it's how we survive and and it's how we all survived, right? We're we're just little herd species that put all of our money, like we put all of our bets down on social constructs and contracts and that we were gonna work together to evolve.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Well, some of us are thinking about the togetherness part. What you just said is it actually shown up in a lot of trainings that I've been in that someone will have have been born in a in a country not here in the United States, or have immigrated here, or um is visiting the United States, and they say, Yeah, in my country, this we don't even talk about this because it's already happening or it's already going on. And and so there is no DEI as you have named it, that we we just know that there are differences. We just know that we have to work together. We just know that if you treat a person um poorly, then that goes against our community values or whatever, you know, how that that they would say it. And so it is an interesting thing to think about. I don't know if it'll be peaceful because uh I'm a part of the DEI industrial complex. And so I don't know what it would look like to not have one. And it's interesting. It's definitely interesting. Well, that's definitely giving me some things to think about uh the future of DEI training, and and depending upon when people listen to this particular pod, uh, DEI may itself be uh on the way to being illegal in the states and counties that you're listening to this in. And so hopefully uh you're not having to do this, uh listen to this inside of a bunker. And it's definitely possible from where we are um right now. And I'm wondering, Tiff, before we close out, if you would give us uh just a thought or two, uh your insights on the future of training around diversity, equity, and inclusion. What do you where do you think it's going? What do you think is about to happen? What do you want to happen?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I know that there are a lot of hardworking, good-hearted people who don't get paid buckets of money and really go through a lot of obstacles to bring us DEI initiatives and programming and departments. And I know they're not going to stop working at that. And I know that we're going to keep having the opportunities to have access to DEI work, and it may have another name and it might take another shape or form, but the work will get done. I also know that there are going to be a lot of obstacles, and we're going to witness a reaction. You know, I read um Stamped from the Beginning by Iber Max Kendi, and he talks about it as a Rube Goldberg machine of we get some advancement, it comes right back. And we've been witnessing this throughout our history in the United States, and we continue to. So we had a lot of advancement in this area. We're going to see this huge pushback, and it is going to be really hard, and it's going to impact people in real ways that impact their livelihood and their health care and their ability to thrive. We're going to see that go across the workplace, not just in DEI, but return to work, disability programs, all sorts of impacts are going to be really negative. So I don't want to discount that or brush by it. I do think that's going to happen. And my hope is that we grasp on together to what gains we were able to make in the last few years, and we dig our heels in and we are, we build that community. And everybody who believes that this is important work to do, we use our voices and we make it really uncomfortable to take it away from us. And we keep doing the work together in every way that we can. And a lot of the leaders that I've been reading recently that have been really filling me up and giving me hope point out time and time again that you can just find the thing you're already good at and participate that way. That that's your proxy. So for me, it's through communications a lot of the time. So I can help with my DEI initiatives. And I already am doing this by writing my leaders and thanking them for investing in my unconscious bias training that I had last week, by writing the facilitator and giving them honest feedback on how it went for me, by making sure that I'm involved in my ERGs, that I tell my leaders how important it is for me to be involved in my ERGs. Everybody has a voice. Everybody can do something. And um, and anytime, you know, we we as humans, we do not like to have our rights taken away from us. We don't like to be underfoot, we don't like to be trampled. And historically speaking, we do band together when we feel like that's happening and we get really strong. And so that's my hope is that first we're gonna feel down and upset. We'll have those knots in our stomach and we're gonna feel angry, but we're also gonna, like you said earlier, Robert, put our work boots on and and and do this work. And we'll change whatever we need to for it to continue to happen, but we will definitely make sure it continues to happen.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Well, you certainly paint a pretty picture. Uh well, it's it's like get some darkness and it's got some light. Um, you know, it's one of those you gotta look from one side to the other, uh, because looking at it all together is is one one big messy puzzle, uh, or painting, as it were. But you you you paint something beautiful that I hope we actually get to see. I will tell you though, there was a that the the darker part that you're painting um gives me a little bit more of that knot in my stomach, thinking about what we're about to experience. And so I I hope we come out on the other side uh more learned, uh more hopefully understood. Um, and and then maybe all of us have more work boots on. We will some of us will have uh a little bit more dirt and muck than others, but that we all get to that point where we're rowing, pushing uh in the same direction. I hope that that happens for us all.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

I hope so too. I mean, we're all most of us, asterisk, all of us are laborers, and we should be finding that solidarity because to your point, it's gonna, it's really dark and it's hard to feel like you're gonna take action when it's this dark. And so the best way to do that is just to find our solidarity with each other and know that we're not alone.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Well, that's what I'm taking from today's conversation for sure, Tiff, is that we talked a lot about community. And and uh I've often said it takes a village to raise a child. Maybe it takes a community to to create equity. That didn't feel they didn't roll off the tongue the same way, but that's what I'm thinking on now. Maybe a t-shirt. It takes a village to raise a child, it takes a community to raise up equity. I don't know. I'll work on that.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I like it. Yeah, workshop, I'll buy the t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

We're gonna need it.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Well, Tiff, I really appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing your thoughts with us about diversity, equity, inclusion. And I really am serious that we would love to have you come on again and talk about who really is a laborer, uh, who gets to have that moniker and who doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Um, thank you again for having me. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Absolutely. This has been the Beyond the Training podcast, where we move from really good intent and ideas and hopes and dreams to actually measurable, tangible impact in the work that we're doing, in the relationships that we have and in the communities that we live and play in. And we want to hear from you. What do you think about the future of diversity, equity, inclusion training has is going to be? Send us an email at impact at 7 focus.com or hit us up on all of our social medias wherever you find us, or hopefully you're able to find us, uh, depending on when you're listening to this. Because we want to hear from you, and we will see you all next time.