Episode 38: How Technology is Transforming Property

Episode Summary

In this episode, we are joined by Ingrid Filmer to explore the evolving world of capital markets and private wealth in Australian real estate.

With more than two decades of industry experience, Ingrid shares the story behind her career journey, including her time leading Burgess Rawson and the pivotal moments that shaped her path to becoming one of the sector’s most respected leaders. The conversation also looks at the acquisition of Burgess Rawson by CBRE and the lessons learned throughout that process. Ingrid reflects on how the transaction has influenced the way capital markets and private wealth platforms operate today, particularly as technology, data and analytics increasingly shape how real estate is marketed, analysed and transacted.

We also unpack what private wealth actually means in a property context, who the typical investors are, how they approach real estate investment, and the role advisors play in helping them build and manage portfolios. Ingrid shares practical insights for individuals considering private wealth investment for the first time, along with observations on key market trends across sectors such as quick service retail, childcare and fast-food assets.

This episode provides a valuable perspective on how capital is moving through the market and how technology and intelligence are transforming the way investors and agents make decisions.

About Our Guest

Ingrid Filmer is Senior Managing Director of Capital Markets – Private Wealth at CBRE and one of Australia’s most progressive leaders in commercial real estate.

With more than 27 years of industry experience, Ingrid previously served as CEO of Burgess Rawson Eastern Seaboard, where she helped transform the business into a data-driven private wealth platform by building sophisticated CRM and analytics systems to support investors and agents.

Following CBRE’s acquisition of Burgess Rawson, Ingrid now leads the development of advanced data and intelligence capabilities across the combined platform, with a focus on leveraging AI, automation and analytics to help investors and advisors make faster and more strategic decisions.

Listen Now

If you’re interested in how capital markets, technology and private wealth are reshaping the way real estate is invested in and transacted, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss. Tune in to hear Ingrid Filmer’s insights on the future of property investment.

EPISODE LINKS 

Ingrid Filmer

CBRE Private Wealth

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This podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered investment or financial advice. This podcast is not intended to replace or supplement professional investment, financial or legal advice. Please seek professional advice based upon your personal circumstances. The views expressed by our podcast guests may not represent those of Charter Keck Cramer. This podcast may not be copied, reproduced, republished or posted in whole or in part without the prior written consent of Charter Keck Cramer.

Transcript

This episode was recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We pay our respects to their elders, past, present and future. 

Richard: Hello and welcome to another episode of Precisely Property. I'm your host Richard Temlett. I'm excited to have you with us today. If you're here for the first time, thank you for joining us. I encourage you to listen to our previous episodes where we discuss all things property with a focus on dynamic discussions with industry leaders. In this episode, we'll be talking with Ingrid Filmer of CBRE. So sit back, relax, and let's get started.  

With over 27 years in commercial real estate, Ingrid is recognized as one of Australia's most progressive leaders in integrating technology with human expertise. Formerly CEO of Burgess Rawson, Eastern Seaboard, Ingrid led to the transformation of one of Australia's largest privately owned agencies into a data-driven private wealth platform, building sophisticated CRM and analytics ecosystems to support investors and agents at scale. Following the successful acquisition of Burgess Rawson by CBRE, Ingrid now serves as Senior Managing Director at Capital Markets and Private Wealth, where she is leading the build-out of advanced data and intelligence capabilities across the combined Metro platform.  The focus is on transforming how real estate is marketed, analysed, and transacted, leveraging AI, automation, and analytics to help agents and investors make faster, smarter, and more strategic decisions, turning information into intelligence and relationships into results. 

Richard: Welcome, Ingrid. 

Ingrid: Thank you so much for having me. 

Richard: Ingrid, I'm so excited about today's episode.  When I  connected with you and just heard a little bit about your career,  what I decided to do is actually talk to you about your career because I think there's a number of our listeners that would actually really value and get some very good advice from you and almost using it as a case study and hopefully they can actually reach out to you after the show. So, we're going talk about that and then we're also going talk about what you're doing in the private wealth space because certainly over the last 18 months to two years, I've become very aware of the growth in private wealth and I'm keen to understand the service offering and what you're doing in that space.  But before we get into the show, I do have an icebreaker question for you and the question is as follows. 

Before your career in commercial real estate took off, what did a young Ingrid imagine she'd be doing one day?

Ingrid: So this is a funny one.  When I was in year 9, a young 15 year old Ingrid, I did work experience and I loved animals and I went to a vet. And I lasted a day before my whole body broke out in a rush. And I realised that veterinary sciences was never going to be for me. I think I was also failing science at that point in time. A vet was what I dreamed of as a young child, but it was never going to be a reality for me.

Richard: Fantastic. Well, I've just got this image of you just working with animals and look, that would be a great role. I love, I love pets, but I, know, I can see, I faint when I see blood and my dad is a doctor. And when I went into basically a hospital for the first time to do some work experience, I actually fainted. And so, I can kind of relate to your story again. Well, clearly that's not an industry I'm going to get into. And it sounds obviously the same with veterinary for yourself. All right well, thank you for that.  Let's get into the show. As I said, I'm keen to talk to you about your career and your journey to actually become CEO of Burgess Rawson.  You started talking a little bit about this when we were preparing for the show and I find it absolutely inspirational and I know a number of our listeners would do the same. We're then going to talk about what you can talk about in terms of the purchase by CBRE.  Again, what I really loved is when we were talking, you were very open and vulnerable about the lessons learned and the mistakes you've made.  As we are talking offline, I actually lead my team by the same sort of concept in terms of having a growth mindset, learning from our mistakes. And again, I think our listeners would love to hear you know, the good and the bad of everything that you went through there. 

And then finally, we're going to jump into private wealth. Educate the listeners really what private wealth is. We're going to start from the basics and then I’m keen to just learn a little bit more about what you're specifically doing in that space. 

Ingrid: Thank you. 

Richard: So let's start. Burgess Rawson. You were the CEO of Burgess Rawson. Let's talk about your career, key moments in your career. How did you become the CEO? I'll let you take it from there. 

Ingrid: I started at Burgess Rawson in 2005. So I grew up in Canberra and I wanted to be in property, but in Canberra and I wanted to be at that point in time in shopping centre management was actually where I saw myself going long-term. And when I reflect on that now, I think part of that is that I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a commercial sales agency. I didn't understand that those roles even existed. And I think in those days, certainly women were not even , those roles weren't even available to us. So property management was where in commercial women often went. And so shopping centre management was my dream. I love shopping centres. I love the ecosystem of shopping centres.  And I was working as a centre accountant at a shopping centre in Canberra, but I always knew there's very limited opportunity in Canberra. So I packed up everything I owned and I moved to Melbourne with my best friend. She wanted to be a stockbroker. I wanted to be a shopping centre manager and we were going to rule the world.  Arriving in Melbourne, we didn't, but I worked a number of shopping centres. So I had a shopping centre retail management base, having roles with Jones Lang LaSalle.  And then I went into a role with Jones Lang LaSalle in the ANZ portfolio. Jones Lang LaSalle has managed the ANZ properties for many, many, many years. In that role is when I realised that I never want to do office, to be honest. It wasn't going to be where I wanted to do my management. And a role came up as head of asset management, Burgess Rawson. I knew nothing about Burgess Rawson. And I went to the interview, and I was interviewed by one of the founders, Gerald Rawson, and he and I connected in moments. We ended up sitting and talking for over an hour and a half. And he brought Chris Burgess in and said, oh, you've got to meet this woman.  And the three of us just connected. And to this day, you know, they're mentors of mine., And they absolutely changed my life. They taught me so many pieces about how they ran business and what they did. 

They had started Burgess Rawson in 1975, and so, you know, joining in 2005 was already a well established company, but it was a company whereby they had, set up licensed offices in Sydney, Brisbane and Perth at that stage.  So, it really was just the Melbourne business. And I was, you know, employed at the ripe old age of 26 years old as head of asset management. Getting in there, I had all my Jones Lang La Salle mentality, which was everything's going to be streamlined and  process driven and perfect. There's going to be a manual and there's going to be instructions.  And I arrived and there was none of that. Absolutely none of that.  And the majority of the properties that we were managing were for private wealth and private families, or they were also in-house. So they were, you know, Chris and Gerald had quite a substantial portfolio that we were also managing for them. And so I walked in, you know, full of bravado. I know how to do this and nothing that I expected was there. So that was the start of my journey at Burgess Rawson.  But it was really, really quickly that I realised how much I loved the flexibility, creativity that a small business has. And at that point Burgess Rawson was a small business and we were doing the auctions, which is what Burgess Rawson is quite famous for. So, eight times a year we would be in Melbourne, we would bring a group of properties. And at that point we were talking anywhere from four to eight properties to market in a Christie style auction at Crown Casino, which we do to this day with our auctioneer, David Sculls, which we do to this day.  And I thought this was the most exciting thing I'd ever seen. I was smitten. I was there for the long term, but I was still in  a very, male environment, to be really honest. I was still,  it was, was all of property was still, you know, very, very male dominated. And as was Burgess Rawson. 

So a couple of years later, and I talk about this quite openly, because I think as women, need to talk about it. I was getting married, I was thinking about having children. And I was thinking where, how do I mix a career with children? And remembering at that stage, you know, as a woman having children, you would leave the industry and you would leave for a year or maybe two years, et cetera.  And so I actually, , resigned from Burgess Rawson. I got an amazing opportunity with one of my mentors, Chris Smith, , who to this day is a mentor of mine and who I have  like the utmost respect for. And so I said to Chris and Joanna, I'm leaving. And I thought to myself, I'll go join a big corporate. I'll have maternity leave, et cetera, et cetera.  And so I resigned and I was, I can remember it so clearly I was driving across a chandler highway and I got a phone call from Gerald and he said, have I got the deal for you? He said, come back to the office now. And I came back and they said, we're willing to allow you to become a director of Burgess Rawson and have ownership in Burgess Rawson. I had to pay for it obviously. So had to, you know, borrow everything I had in the end, but I had to pay for it. But I sat down and I thought to myself, what would this give me as a future mother, as a future career woman? And I saw Burgess Rawson as an opportunity for me to have control. Control over how I had children, control how I returned to work, control how I grew a business, how  I developed my career. And so I did. I borrowed everything I had, every single cent, and gave it to Chris and Gerald. At that point in time, there was a young director there, Raoul Holdahead. He had been a director there for two years when I became a director and I finally got my shares and I finally bought into the business. And,  , it was such an incredible moment. And I look back at that and I think, I don't think there would be many businesses of that size that would have actually had a woman buy in. So if I look at the competitors back then and the companies that are around today, I just don't think that they would have had that mindset to do that. Chris and Gerald had that mindset, which I think is quite unusual for where they were at that stage. And then  Raoul Holdahead, who was the young director we used to call ourselves, the old director and the young directors was there as well. And to this day, he and I remained partners for the next 21 years, sold the CBRE, et cetera. 

But I look back and over the journey, we then brought in young directors. We brought out Chris and Gerald and those young directors all young males in the early,  mid to late 2000s, they all absolutely trusted me. And I, to this day, are so respectful that they saw what I could deliver. So very early on, we did something quite different.  If you look at a lot of small businesses, small commercial agencies, usually the leader of the agency is the top salesman and he leads the agency. What we identified really early on is that if you're going to be a successful sales agent, you actually don't have, first of all, usually the skillset that allows you to be the best agent in Australia is not the skills that allows you to run a business. Cause they're very, very different personalities. They're very different, you know, types of people. Additionally, the time you need to run a really good sales business, EG be responsive to your clients on the ground. Remember this is before AI, this is before automation, but it's still a very, very labor intensive role, means that you then can't be there for the strategic thought around HR and structure and things like that. So very early on the directors of Burgess Rawson, so once you brought out Chris and Gerald and Graham Watson, who was the supermarket king and an amazing, amazing sales leader, it was myself, Raoul, Jamie, Sean, and later on some other directors who will come into the story. And they said, okay, Ingrid, we'll sell. You manage the business. That is unique. Like if you actually look at a lot of businesses now, that's really unique. And then they trusted me to do that and they empowered me to do that. So, I respect that incredibly. And I think it was a game changer to  where we are today and what ended up happening. So, I was able to focus and with a property management skillset, I had this real understanding of structure, leases,  IT , you know, I was able to really grow the business in a very purposeful way. Cut through quite a few years  and we get to 2021. 

And what we identified, so a couple of things that I did was I’ve always been very aware about being very open to good advice. Don't think that you know everything and be aware that you don't know what you don't know. So very early on we brought in an external chairman, Chris Alp. who was a game changer to the way that we looked. We started doing formalised business plans that we then delivered on. Again, things that small agencies simply weren't doing. They were just selling and making money. We started to be quite purposeful about what we were gonna do to grow.  So Chris Alp was our chairman and then post that we then brought in Glenn Wright and Peter Barge.  And the three of those, those three people had the greatest, I think, effect  and you know, like mentorship for me personally, as a leader, as a strategist, and, and in getting Burgess Rawson into the point where CBRE wanted us, because you think about it for CBRE being the largest real estate company in the world,  for them to actually even be bothered for the, for the, for the effort they had to put into buy a company to stack up, you have to have size, you have to have depth.  And so something we started working on quite early was we knew that to get the business to where it was going to be attractive to an international buyer, like CBRE or Jones Lang or Savills or any of those, we had to grow the business in a very particular way. So got the right mentorship and advice around me. 

In 2021, we made the decision to take back  the license in Brisbane. And in taking back the license, the name. We were going into COVID, so we were in lockdown and all I had was the name. So Pat Kelly, the licensee went on and created his own Kelly Real Estate, took the business with him from the business point of view. I had a name. So in April, 2021, we're in lockdown and I have a name and I have to work out how to build a business. And I was very lucky to find some really good state partners that I was able to install in that business. Now that was really important because the way that you installed those state partners, that was already part of the strategy. If I didn't set that up correctly, the business could become unsaleable in the future. So if you didn't have the correct unit trust agreements and structures and ways of working, then you would actually be affecting the saleability of business. So the vision was, okay, in five years, this is where we want to be. What do we need to do today? And I had an amazing coach and mentor who Peter Barge put me on to, Mina, and she was like Ingrid. The decisions you make today is the chaos you face tomorrow. So if you're in, if you're in chaos or if your world is crazy, you have always facing problems, it's because you did something on day one, you didn't have the conversation you needed to have, you didn't do the structure you needed to have. So I was very purposeful with that. So we set up Brisbane and it just so happened by sheer number of different things happened that we had the opportunity to buy the Sydney business on one July, 2021.

Now that was never something I was expecting. As a leader, I was never expecting to have a startup in Queensland and all of a sudden be buying a business. So buying a business, EG staff, history, you know, the full company in operation. In hindsight, that was the best experience for them doing the CBRE transaction because I'd already done it on a very, very small scale. So, I'd already been through the process of due diligence, contract negotiation, onboarding of staff, integration of culture, merging of teams on a small scale. So that actually really helped me, I had a lot of learnings going into CBRE. So yeah, so suddenly, one July, 2021, I'm the Eastern Seaboard CEO. I think if you'd asked me in July, 2020, I would never have said any of those things were going to happen. I had an external board, I had mentorship, I had a coach, I became a YPO-er and my world changed completely. So that's kind of my career story.  

Richard: That is absolutely fantastic. I've made a couple of notes. I wanted to loop back around to some of the comments that you made. But thank you for sharing that.  You started sharing part of that when we first connected and thank you for just pulling that apart a little bit more. You made a comment about mentors. Obviously, they're very important to you. I have my own mentors and I agree. What advice, I suppose, would you give to anyone starting in the industry or yourself in terms of how do you connect with mentors? How do you use mentors? 

Ingrid: Oh, wow I speak about this a lot because what I do see is a lot of people thinking they know everything or a lot of people thinking that Chat GPT can teach them. The guidance  and insight that I received from my mentors and they've changed over time, which I think is really important to talk about as well, have been life changing for me as a person, as a professional.  You know, as a mentor to others as well, and as a leader. So, I really focused, so coming into this, I probably didn't understand until my mentors really explained it to me and my coach, especially that leadership is a whole other skillset you need to learn. You can be great at property. I'm great at property. I can talk on, you know, yields and industries and I can sell a property to you. Becoming a leader is a whole nother skillset. And I really focused on being quite purposeful about learning how to be a leader. And I'm still learning to this day, my gosh, I'm still not, you know, a completely 100% competent, capable leader, but I think I've been able to really nail down on some skill sets that have let me get to where I am today. So, what I say to young people now is that you're, call it my circle of genius. Your circle of genius is going to change over time. And you need to...  It is to grow with you. So, the mentors that you might see today as a young person coming into the industry and the mentors that I, for example, have are going to be very different people. So, you need to be insightful enough to be able to move your circle of genius as you go to what you need. If you're just starting out in the industry, it could be as small as who in the office you work with and who you hang out with and who you speak to. It could be as small as making sure that the people that you are liaising with every single day are growing you and that you're learning something. As you go through your journey, it may be that you're looking to connect more with senior leaders or experts in their field. And I think that within your circle of genius, you need all of those. So, my coach Mina, isn't a specialist in property. She is a specialist in leadership and strategy. Peter Barge, is a specialist in property that was, was a very, very senior leader within Jones Lang Lasalle. Glenn Wright sold his business Wright property to Cushman Wakefield many years prior to an idea to CBRE. And he is the ultimate sales team person.

So if you want to learn how to build a sales team, motivate a sales team, high performance of a sales team, that's Glenn Wright. And so, what, and then you've got people like Chris Alp who helped with business plans and strategies. So, I think what I would say to people about mentors is that they have to come in all different forms and no one mentor is going to solve all of your issues. So, you need to always be very open to them and open to learning and sit there and say, I don't know what I don't know. Can you help me or can you share an experience with me? Joining YPO was another big part of that. So in YPO, there's no advice given. You're only allowed to share an experience and shared experiences. I think the fabric to becoming better leader, better professional, better everything. So, so I suppose that's my, my mentorship piece. And they're always changing, joining CBRE and coming into a true corporate, you know, environment. I've sought out new mentors and new people to help me navigate that. And I found them. So that's changing again. know what I mean? 

Richard: I do. I do. Thank you for that. And before we get into the CBRE piece, the final notes that I made. You've obviously been, you’re very good at what you do. You've climbed through the ranks. I'm actually doing, I’ve started my MBA studies and I'm doing leadership right now. And one of the topics we were talking about was imposter syndrome, where you basically, you are in a position or you're dealing with people and you do question whether you should be there, whether you're good enough.  What advice do you have for people that, or I suppose how have you navigated that? No doubt when you became a CEO or... in a male dominated industry, you would have had a seat at the table. How did you back yourself, learn to cope with and move forward? 

Ingrid: It's a great question. I think first of all, if you don't feel that way at one point or another, you're probably not growing. If I woke up every day and went, I've got this, I'm so good, I’ve nailed this. I'm probably going to be bored. So, I think imposter syndrome potentially feels a negative term, but I think in many ways it can be a positive term. It makes you realise that there's things that you don't know. There's things that you need to go and grow as a person, as as a leader. So I'm not afraid of that. Absolutely. Do I feel, you know, anxious about being, you know, leading a sales team for CBRE right now? I mean, that is something I've never ever done. We have 135 people in the private wealth team now. We have 85 agents and half of those were at CBRE and existing and had been under different leadership and different mentorship and different structure. So, coming into that, of course, I felt that way. I was, you know, I was nervous as hell. But I suppose it's one foot at a time going back to your coaching and your learning, going back to what you've learned from all your advisors, reaching back out to them and saying, Hey, how would you navigate this? And what do you know? What, do you think? But I don't, I don't shy away from it. I don't want to ever turn up and think I've got this, I'm perfect at this because I think it would actually mean that I wasn't listening, growing and learning from others.  

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Richard: Now let's jump onto the CBRE piece. This was so exciting. This happened in 2025, if I'm correct.

Ingrid: Well, it was happening for quite a long time before that.

Richard: So, with what you can obviously share and obviously there's always confidentiality that we will respect, but I am interested to know how that all came about. And probably what I'm interested is also the biggest lesson you've learned from that. That adventure, lets call it an adventure or experience.

Ingrid: we'll call it an adventure. We'll call it an adventure. So like I said, in 2021, we've got the businesses, we've got the agency brought up and running. We're having, as most agencies did, our best year ever. It was truly one plus one equalled 10. I could not believe it. So, we're running auctions in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, eight times a year, three days straight. Our biggest auction we did over three days, 96 properties, you know, 2021 yields are the sharpest they've ever been. Everything's selling. It was just, oh my gosh, the growth and the excitement was palpable. And we were approached by CBRE at that point in time.  And at that point in time, the board, we'd already said we were going to do a five-year plan. And so we said, no, we're really happy with what we're doing. We're not, our journey isn't finished yet. We're not ready. And so we said no, and it was just a general approach. you know, I remember having, lunch with Dean Hunt and Phil Rowland and we just went, no, we're loving this. We don't feel like our journey's there yet. And then we were approached later on by a couple of other players as well. We're not there yet. Something I probably didn't mention before as well in 2021, what I also did was change the focus of Burgess Rawson. Very, very quickly, the partners and I realised that if we didn't have a focus on AI, well, not AI as such, data. So at that point it was much more about data. How do we collect data? How do we keep our data? How do we have first party data? So we'd been doing a lot of work already on data. And as my journey went on, that became also around automation and AI. I didn't feel at that point in 2021 that we were ready. I just, I thought it was so much more to conquer. And so, and then, and then joining YPO, I was very lucky to be able to go to do a real estate course at Harvard. And it was there that my eyes were absolutely open to the world of property in the world of real estate, which is so much.

It's just, it was, it was so huge, you know, sitting there with players from around the world all of, you know, YPO from people from, Mexico, South Africa, all over America,  you know, everybody was there and my eyes just opened and I thought, I thought, wow, you know, the world is changing so fast. AI automation analytics is changing so fast. And it was there that I started to think that we need to change as Burgess Rawson if we're going to remain the top of our game and that we probably needed to start looking at a partner. And at that point in partnership, I was thinking, okay, is that private equity? Is that, you know, partial ownership? Is that merger? You know, what does that look like, et cetera? And then the conversation with CBRE started back up again.  And we were also, you know, looking at other options, but CBRE was just phenomenal. Like they are a phenomenal brand. They're a huge business. There's nothing they don't do. And so that's how we chose to partner with CBRE to start the process. From a learning point of view, I think that anybody who owns a small agency today, if you're thinking about doing what I did, like the strategy behind getting ready to do what I did starts right now. The preparation, I'm so grateful that I had the mentorship and the board and the advice and I took it in 2021 that from day one of that new journey, we were already changing the business and strategizing the business and getting the business structured. So we'd already had, you know, we outsourced our HR, so all of our contracts and all of our paperwork and all of our, you know, engagement surveys and productivity, everything was already, you know, there and ready to go. Our structure was right, et cetera. So when we did  start engaging with CBRE, it was something that, like I said, it had the breadth and depth that CBRE could even face. Cause obviously there's such a massive company.  

So, there's a projected negotiation. And, we signed this letter and we're like, right, sign a letter we're going into DD and Phil Rowland, the CEO of CBRE rings me and he said, Ingrid, now what's your plan for DD? And I'm like, ah, I'm going to do it, Phil, I'll be fine. Feels like Ingrid, I think you're going to need some people to help you. And I probably did not, at that point, I definitely did not comprehend what was coming my way. CBRE does DD with such intent team structure. So it started, I met this incredible woman from CBRE, Brooke Brazil, and I go to with Phil Rollins, now Ingrid. Brooke is going to run the DD. I'm like, okay, great. This can't be that hard. My, my YPO friends had set us up with a really good lawyer. So we had, we had, you know, the head of M&A for, for Minters. We had PWC ready to go. Like, okay, I've got my accountant. I've got a lawyer, got PWC. This should be fine. And then it started.  And the DD process is so intense, but also it's global. So with CBRE, so there is, there was 10 key categories that they basically do the DD on. And within those 10 key categories, they have teams that can basically ask you anything and you have to know the answer. You have to be ready to provide the documentation. And those teams go deep into absolutely everything. Cause obviously they're making sure as a global company that they're buying the right business. So, I, I probably in hindsight, I probably would have prepared a bit, a bit more for that. I didn't know what I didn't know. And I certainly wasn't ready for just how comprehensive they are.  And it took a lot longer than what we thought. You know we walked into it thinking it was going to be three months. It ended up being almost a year. And then, and then the other piece to it is that's just DD and then you sign. And so, and unfortunately it got leaked to the market. 

So in the September of the year before it got leaked to the market, which was an incredibly stressful time for me. You know, our staff are all asking questions, you know, they're asking what their future looks like. You've got state partners saying, well, what does that mean for me? You know, I've got into a business, I thought I was going to have the journey that you've had Ingrid. What does that look like for me? So that's really hard when these are people who I care deeply about Burgess vRawson was really quite a family. It's got an incredibly close culture.  And to have that leaked was really difficult. So you can't promise them anything because you're in DD and there's no guarantees. At the same time, they're feeling really uncomfortable about what their future holds and what their journey and their career looks like. And you're asking them to trust you. So, I am so proud that we didn't lose anyone during that period. They actually did trust the directors of Burgess Rawson and they trusted in what we said. And I think now if they all look back on it, they're actually really, happy with the decision and with what happened. But that was an incredible period to go through. So yeah, if I was to look back on it, I'd say, you know, being prepared is absolutely key. Having the right advisors again, absolutely key. And I suppose having a really, really deep understanding of your business is something that you had to have. And being Burgess Rawson I'd basically created it, it was all in my head. Which meant also that all the questions and all the answers and everything had to come back to me. So it was really hard. The other big thing was CBRE until such time as the transaction has actually occurred, they kind of can't tell their staff they can't get started or anything else. It's been leaked in September. One July, are, you know, CBRE, we've been bought and everybody is expecting that somehow all the work's been done. Well, Ingrid, you know, it's been, it's, we've all known about this for six months. But in actual fact, the truth of it is, is that CBRE can't do anything until the actual thing has happened. 

So on one July, we walk in and, you know, small, small things like you can't order the computers for 75 people until you've bought the business. So we didn't have computers. You can't work out the co-location of the offices until you've signed. So, you don't have desks, you know, and so, and we had an auction coming. I mean, we auction in August.  We auction, you know, 26, 27, 28 of June, which is right before the transaction. We're auctioning again in August, so we're launching a campaign and our auction dates are set. So, auction's gonna happen. The world's gonna keep ticking and we've got this of this drop dead date that finally everything's actually started. At that point as well, the global D&D DD teams stop and the CBRE teams in Australia come in. And so for them, it's a learning curve. So I suppose I didn't appreciate the effect that that would have. And I didn't appreciate how our staff would feel, because our staff, think, our people believed that we were ready to go. And in actual fact, we couldn't be ready to go. So that was really interesting. And then, of course, I could never have spoken to a CBRE person prior to the transaction. I was speaking to my Burgess Rawson people and I communicated always with them in a very transparent, authentic way. They know me really well. They've known me. I've been at Burgess Rawson for 21 years. They just you know, walk in, ask me anything, they expect an answer, you know, they know where they stand. I hadn't met or spoken to any of the CBRE people because I couldn't. So can you imagine, you know, hi, this is a new structure, I'm a new boss and I've never even met them. So, for them, it's been an incredible journey. And I have, I have the utmost respect for the way that, you know, the CBRE team members, you know, and I think about, you know, in Melbourne, Nathan Maffale and he's brought his team across and Lord in, in  New South Wales and Will Carmen and they've just leaned in and said, yep, we're hearing, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to lean into this, we're going to do this with you. 

I can't be more grateful for that because they could have just sat there and gone, we’re not doing this. What is this? You know, and then also you've turned their world upside down because I've come in and I've said, right, we run this portfolio thing. We do our marketing a particular way.  You know, Everything we do at Berndt & Rawson is based on these, you know, the three A's, AI, automation, um analytics. Everything is based on a system. Everything's based on a structure. And that's all new to those people. So I am forever grateful that they've all said, yeah, Ingrid, we're there. We're going to do it. um I think it's been a really successful integration. But it's been the willingness of CBRE and the culture that we've been able to bring across. So, I think we all realise that one July date it was start like we started from scratch on one July, 2025 and we're eight months in. 

Richard: That's absolutely incredible. Thank you for sharing that. That sounds exhausting, fun, but exhausting. Obviously, you're substantially better for it.  I, commend you for, just the energy that you bring in. Obviously people have responded very well to you, which is great to see. Let's jump into, uh, private wealth. The last, the last segment of, of our today's session for those of people, including myself, that are not as close to private wealth.  What is it? What are you actually doing? What are the opportunities? 

Ingrid: So this is why Burgess Rawson and CBRE came together, is private wealth. And I cannot be more excited. In a Burgess Rawson world, we could sell you a property and we'd probably sell you property between one and 50 million. That's what we do. And it would end there. If you want valuations, we would refer you out. If you want depreciation schedules, we would refer you out.  And even if you bought a really complicated property, you'd probably wouldn't appoint us for management necessarily. And we managed a lot of single tenant product. So, joining CBRE was about amplifying the service lines to private wealth. What I saw was there's a $4.7 trillion wealth transference happening in Australia right now. And when we talk about private wealth, I think people think ultra wealthy families. think Maya family, Morgan family, they think the billionaire list. Private wealth is so much more than that. Private wealth is investors in maybe one or two commercial properties and they're on their journey, there might be G1 and there, you know, there might be, and they're starting that, that foray into property. What I saw was by joining with CBRE, we had the opportunity to actually service the journey from start to finish, but not only as well buy and sell property. Within CBRE, there's a debt team. So we can actually finance the property. And already there has been the most amazing connection there where the debt team have been able to come through with financing that the client couldn't necessarily access or didn't know how to access, especially if we're talking about people who just joining the property industry for the first or second or third time. We were able to connect through with our consultancy team so they can do feasibility our valuation team. I mean, CBRE is one of the largest valuation teams, again, in Australia. 

Everything they do is on a huge scale but being able to connect in with them. So you can imagine the insights and the data and the knowledge that these teams have. Then within Capital Advisory, for example, our Capital Advisory are doing things like syndicate and fundraising, which our clients never would have had access to.  So, it's also about being able to provide a whole range of ways to invest in property. So private wealth has been born, partly it's my dream.  My dream has always been to be able to service. So I love private wealth. Private wealth, mean, they are the most amazing people. And you have true relationships. I mean, I've got clients who I was managing their property on day one when I joined Burgess Rawson and today their properties are being managed by CBRE, they've come with me my whole journey. And those are clients who will ring me and ask me about a property another agent has or ask about development feasibility or construction, what should they do with it and what that advice.  I now have that at my fingertips, which is so exciting. But also CBRE, and this is what I love, And to be honest, I was a bit skeptical when they first approached, thought, oh yeah, okay. You know, they want to do private wealth, you know, they're going to support me, but how much are they going to break my business or change my business? And again, the team at CBRE led by Phil Rowland have been, they've been like, Ingrid, no, we want you to do what you're doing and we want you to do it really, really well. So they've allowed me to like keep all my systems and bring all those systems. And now they're supporting me to amplify them in a way that I could never have done at Burgess Rawson.

So through alignment and that connectivity with all the different offerings within CBRE, we're a one-stop shop. And that's the game changer. And that's also how I saw the future. With the way that, you know, everything these days is about knowledge, data, information. CBRE has golden information that nobody else has because of just how big they are. So being able to give that to my clients now, which I could never do at Burgess Rawson means that my clients... So not only I've benefited from the transaction, my teams have benefited from the transaction, my people have grown from the transaction, but my clients also get to benefit from the transaction. So, and when I looked at it, actually, Peter Barge got me to sit down and I did, I actually wrote down and I wrote down, I had my entire team list and I wrote down a reason as to why doing the CBRE transaction was beneficial for every single one of them. I wrote down my personal goals as to where I wanted to be as a professional, as a woman, as a wife, as a mother. And I also wrote down my benefits to my clients because I also saw that if we didn't make this change, that the way that CBRE, you know, works so globally and so strong, eventually they would anyway probably, you know, come in and take my market share because they know how to get this right. They've got the clout, the knowledge, the depth, the money, you know to do this private wealth piece incredibly well. So that's what private wealth is about. So, what does that mean for our clients? So, coming to CBRE, the first thing we did was we recognised that obviously portfolio, so portfolio is our premier event. The pinnacle is the auctions, but portfolio is simply a brand and it's a way of bringing property to market. Auction is a method of sale. So, portfolio starts and we all list all of our properties. Now portfolio is long-term leases to known tenants is portfolio. We had the auction on the Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then we closed the EOIs. So portfolio also has EOIs in it and they closed the week after that's portfolio. 

What we wanted to do when I came into CBRE and I took, I looked at all the stock and what the teams are doing and I said, okay, well not everything here is going to fit into portfolio. How again, do we service our client the best? How do we bring them the best information? We use our smarts and we deliver them what they want. Cause I think that's another really important piece.  Clients now expect to only be given what they want, which means you've to know what they want. So you need a lot of smarts in the background and a lot of digital strength to know what they want and understand what they want and then serve them up what they want.  So, what Identify was within private wealth, we kind of had four key categories. Development and development can be everything. So our clients can be buying passive investments, but also looking for you know, apartment sites like Alex Mazane and Ben Witts are selling in Sydney and they are $150, $160 million sites, but we also have smaller development sites. You know, we're doing a huge foreshore development in Geelong for sale at the moment. So we had development.

Then obviously we've got emerging categories in alternatives, which is around HSI, healthcare, social infrastructure and childcare, which Burgess Rawson was very strong, but CBRE has an incredibly strong team in that, which also kind of sits in that alternative space. Then we also have value properties that we are, that we are selling, you you might have a two year lease and we've got a lot of clients who are looking for things with shorter lease or opportunity to recut the lease or, you know, maybe put in a new tenant, things like that. So what I did, was create kind of four distinct categories. So, we have district portfolio, elevate and select. Select now is our really premium property. It needs to go to EOY cause people need a bit longer to look at the properties and that could be a multi-tenanted. You know, like we did Ribena and goodbye Aldi, Starbucks and medical centre, things like that. And then we've got district, which is bringing together and no, I don't think any other agent in Australia does this. We've brought together all the development sites around Australia and presented them in one magazine, one portfolio. So, we become that one-stop shop. Often smaller development sites are potentially looked at by local residential agents who then what happens is they only reach their local you know, client base, but CBRE and with what we're doing and with private wealth, we reach Australia. So what we're doing is we're grouping these properties together in a really unique way and we are bringing them across all of Australia and again, giving people what they want. So as an investor, if I'm looking for development sites and I want to know what's going on, I want the best insights, I want the best agents and I want to know all the stock district does that for you. And then our agents are specialists. So our agents, those agents are absolutely focused and know that stuff back to front. And then you still got your portfolio, which is your long-term passive investments, which everyone knows and loves. And again, so this is about what, what private wealth wants. So private wealth wants, you know, holistic service from A to Z. They want to be served up what they need when they want it in line with their, you know, individual goals. And that's what we're basically delivering.

So it's a very long story, a very long answer. And I think private wealth, you know, we've heard it for years around banking and private wealth being something that you see as being very exclusive in banking. You've got to have a certain, you know, you to be a wholesale investor and things like that. The way that I see private wealth is more, it’s anyone on their commercial property journey from start to finish. So it is, you know, from coming to our auction room and buying your first commercial property, which often I'm the person signing you up all the way through to portfolio advice, debt restructuring, um strategic asset, divestment, absolutely everything. And as CBRE, we can deliver that and actually provide you with a specialist and an expert, actual expert in every step of that journey.

Richard: Fantastic. All right. Well, look, I did know a lot about that because I do have a number of friends actually at CBRE, but it was good to hear how everything links together and also how your own vision links to theirs, which I think is fantastic. Look, I know we're running short of time today, so the final question I'll ask you is, what is probably, or in your opinion, in your mind, the hottest asset class for 2026 in terms of either the most inquiry or given you your access to the data and the experts, what do you think is the just the most attractive or investable asset class right now?

Ingrid: I suppose it depends on the price point at which you're investing. Certainly, we're seeing compression of yields in fuel. Fuel from a debt point of view, there's been a wider availability to get debt on fuel and rates have certainly been compressing within that space. People are actually seeing that these are key dual access sites, large landholding to tenants who, know, some of the largest in Australia who are going to pay your rent for the next 15 years. So, I think there's an amazing opportunity there. Fast food is always the biggest, you know, bitter inquiry and buyer depth usually sits in fast food. Again, because people see it as you're getting, again, well-known best tenants in Australia on 12-to-15-year leases. McDonald's is a 20 year lease. So they're bond like assets. So if you're looking for that passive investment, but at the other side of it, I still see, you know, alternatives such as childcare and medical, both absolutely underpinned by government support, government funding, and as we have an aging population and a growing population, those are the kind of properties. With medical, my preference is towards capital intensive medical offerings, where you've got lead lined walls for x-rays and dentists and things like that, where the actual, the fit out has been so capital intensive, it makes them a very, very sticky tenant. So they're the kind of things that in your traditional portfolio be seeing. But I'm also, and I, I'm probably going to be thrown this one, but I'm quite, I think we're at the bottom of the cycle in office. And I think there's some actual opportunity there. I don't believe for one second that we're all going to be working from our homes and not having interaction and, with our teams, I think going into the office gives me such fulfillment I think I'm more productive. I think I work better. So I think there is real opportunity there. And obviously, large format, I mean, large format, those retailers, again, some of the best in Australia, rents have been growing, but they're still reasonably affordable as compared to traditional retail rents. 

So I suppose that I think there's, I think there's opportunities for everyone, depending on their profile, their risk profile, their interest, their location. A lot of our investors also, are no longer kind of geographically constrained. So, a lot of our private wealth and any, we're talking you know, all the way from the $3 million property through to $100 million property, investors now are very comfortable going all over Australia. So, for example, we're seeing huge interest in South Australia and Tasmania. Tasmania from a yield point of view, South Australia from a stamp duty savings point of view. Investors are really, really comfortable. And that's where it comes back to us as agents to ensure that we're able to produce really transparent information through our data rooms, through our analytics, you know serving that information up to investors so that they can feel confident to invest anywhere in Australia. 

Richard: Absolutely fantastic. Well, look, you're a wealth of knowledge. You've worked through an enormous amount to date, I will certainly put links in the show notes to yourself on both LinkedIn and at CBRE. I encourage our listeners to reach out if you'd like advice just on your own careers, because I think that was very meaningful for me today. And then also certainly if you're interested in private wealth or just picking Ingrid or the teams, brains about various asset classes, obviously you can hear just how experienced she is. I certainly know on their website they have a number of research publications that are freely or publicly available. I'd encourage everyone to jump on and have a read. You'll get an understanding of what's happening in the market space. So Ingrid, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed it. I hope that you have a lovely rest of the day. 

Ingrid: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 

Richard: Hi everyone, I hope you enjoyed listening to Ingrid.  I found her passion absolutely fantastic and certainly very inspirational for my own career. Please do reach out to her and the team if you have various requirements that you feel they could satisfy.  In terms of the three themes or take-home messages that I took away for today, and I'd like everyone to also just take home and think about, they are as follows. I absolutely loved Ingrid's comments and I'm gonna certainly be adopting it as my own moving forward about the decisions that you make today being the chaos you face tomorrow. I find that across all areas of business and in all areas of life, in fact.  And I will be applying that saying to my own life and certainly the team that I manage at Chater Keck Cramer.  But I'd also even encourage the government and our government listeners to also take that into account. And the decisions being made today are the chaos that everyone is going to face tomorrow. I think that's such a fantastic way to think about things in just time important to allow these decisions actually are in terms of setting ourselves up for success for the future.

The second point that Ingrid made very well is certainly the role of mentors and as she said, her circle of genius. I think for everyone at every level of business and I suppose even in life, having trusted mentors, trusted advisors and circles of geniuses are absolutely critical. This helps you solve problems and you realise that you're actually not alone in this world. I'm doing a big or making a big effort to make sure that I have good mentors and people in my life. I'd encourage everyone in particularly the more junior people starting out to do exactly that, get the mentors around you. And then as you get more senior, continue to actually pay forward by mentoring and coaching other people. 

Finally, Ingrid touched on very briefly, but I deliberately asked her to be quite high level because I wanted people to come and speak to her about the different asset classes that they're involved in. And you'll able to replay the episode and hear specifically what she said about a few of them. But one that I particularly liked was the childcare and I suppose the medical, the allied health asset classes. And the reason why I do like them, she made the point about having government support and government funding, and then also the sticky tenants. And I think at this point in the economic cycle, having both of those in my mind, and I suppose land lease is another one where they also do have government support and funding, it enables a lower risk proposition to be achieved or more investable defensive asset class right now or low risk proposition. And I’d encourage our listeners to think about the asset classes that are actually supported or underpinned by government. And also, as she said, have sticky tenants or sticky buyers because there is a very, very different value proposition and a low risk profile compared to the more transient tenants or sectors that have absolutely little government support or government subsidy. 

Anyway, that's enough for today. I hope that you did get a lot out of the session and have a great rest of the week.

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