Join my conversation with Cerys of Sunshine Studios https://sunshinestudios.co.nz/home as we talk about the customer service experience we offer at our Pop-ins here in New Zealand. This is more than just the basics we are going deep into how to build amazing connections and lasting relationships with parents and their children in a very short space of time, at our Pop-in portrait photoshoots.
Join our How to Pop facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3086306188352379
Check out popinphotos.com
popinphotos.com
Pop-ins wouldn't be possible without our amazing online automation tool popinphotos.com/photographers
Sign up for your free account today to take a look around!
Join my conversation with Cerys of Sunshine Studios https://sunshinestudios.co.nz/home as we talk about the customer service experience we offer at our Pop-ins here in New Zealand. This is more than just the basics we are going deep into how to build amazing connections and lasting relationships with parents and their children in a very short space of time, at our Pop-in portrait photoshoots.
Join our How to Pop facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3086306188352379
Check out popinphotos.com
popinphotos.com
Pop-ins wouldn't be possible without our amazing online automation tool popinphotos.com/photographers
Sign up for your free account today to take a look around!
Welcome pop stars today's episode is the first in a series of interviews with experienced pop in Photographers from right here in little old new zealand today I'm joined by Cerys who is an incredible newborn and family photographer who also runs monthly pop in portraits right here in Wellington Welcome to How To Pop, a business podcast for photographers who want their family portrait business to pop. I'm Anna Little, founder and creator of Pop-in Photos, and I want to help you go from hustling and struggling to busy and profitable with a cute little idea I call Pop-ins. Nevermind the classic podcast dive in, today, let's pop in. Cerys is part of my brand, Little Annie, and together we have created what we refer to as the Little Annie Way. The Little Annie Way is all about how to build amazing relationships with customers in just a few quick seconds. Relationships that keep them coming back for more. Cerys has a huge array of tips and tricks to share, and I think you're going to love this conversation. I wanted to bring Cerys in to talk with me today because she has been absolutely foundational in creating what we now refer to as the Little Annie Way. That's a term that Cerys coined herself. This isn't just your run of the mill customer service chat. The The Little Annie Way includes a bunch of specific tactics and phrases that we use to make our customers feel really, really special. And that's what keeps them coming back for more. So it's a big topic. Let's get into it. Cerys. Welcome to the how to pop podcast. Hi everyone. I'm thrilled to have you here today to talk to us about the little Annie way and to give our audience of photographers around the world an idea of how to go about creating an addictive customer service experience for their own Pop-in brand. So for starters, just to get us warmed up a little bit, let's take a big step back and talk about what a Pop-in actually is. How would you describe what we do at Little Annie? A pop
Cerys:in is a quick, affordable, and as we say, totally adorable way of capturing your child on a
Anna:monthly basis. That is exactly what a pop in is. For you and your business as the owner of Sunshine Studios, what do pop ins mean for you? Like, how does your role as a pop in photographer fit into your studio brand and how does it all work together for you?
Cerys:I guess like lots of photographers out there. I am very time poor. I'm a mom, as well as a photographer. And having the privilege of photographing Pop-ins is a way of me putting myself in front of the client and showing them what I'm all about. This is how I interact, this is who I am. And it's, It's better than any kind of online marketing I could ever think of. It's a way of me connecting with clients, getting to know people, getting to know the children. It's all about connection for me. The best marketing tool.
Anna:Totally. There's really no better way to market your business. If you're. Standing in front of a customer, you're seeing them every month, you're watching their baby grow and it's super special it sets you up for family sessions and milestone sessions, and they're booking their newborn shoot with you and it all fits Really nicely together.
Cerys:They come back month after month and I get to know the children. I know them to the point where they come in and I recognize, oh my goodness, your baby, your baby is suddenly waving or clapping and they've got a new skill. And I am meeting these people and then watching the children grow up and the connections that I make with these parents and the children and they come back month after month and not just month after month. So now come back year after year and we have clients in Wellington. They're now on their third child and still popping monthly. So they're five years in. It's such a privilege to watch these, these families grow up. And I feel such a sense of connection to my community because. Of course, the main goal is to, to get them to book my mini milestones or my bigger sessions, but it's about more than that.
Anna:That is such an amazing summary of everything that you do. And I think that is just exactly why Pop-ins and Wellington keep going from strength to strength. You're holding your new baby venturing out into the world. It's, it's intimidating. You're kind of seeking community at that stage of life and be quite isolating being at home with your newborn all the time. If you can go to an experience like Pop-ins and feel like you're really part of something, that's so potent. That is really what gets people hooked on Pop-ins. It's all about what does the customer want and understanding it from their perspective. I
Cerys:feel like those first few months, it's so hard just trying to leave the house. When I had Max, that was seven years ago, but it still feels raw that, that energy it takes to get your baby dressed, make sure you are timing everything right between feeding. And napping and making sure that you can get out the house on time for your appointment. And then you get to your appointment. The last thing you want to feel is that you're just being rushed to get your photo out the door. And I try and remember what those first few months were like for me personally. And just to see the mom and be like, Hey, great job. You made it out the house. That's great. That's, that's incredible. That's so hard to do. And recognizing that, remembering that, remembering the struggle and not just new moms, actually moms when they come in with their toddlers and, you know, their personality is growing and suddenly there's new challenges and the mom's like, gosh, this stage is so hard and they're running off everywhere and I can't get them to sit still and they don't want to sit in the car. You know, that's all good. Come in and we've got some toys, uh, them to play with or we'll entertain them with stickers or whatever it might be whilst I'm waiting for that to fit in and get them on that just sometimes two minutes of breathing time.
Anna:I have this vivid memory just listening to you talk about going to a pop in with Cleo when she was, Uh, she must've been about one and a half. I just remember her being so on the edge of her nap window. We were driving to Pop-ins. I was like passing her crackers back. And I'm knowing that something's going on to the freaking. Outfit and I'm, this is just like so much effort just to, just to even get there. Every mom is turning out completely harried. You've been through six lives already. It's so important when you do turn up, the welcome that you receive when you get to pop ins is crucial. The last thing that you would want is for someone to be like, Oh, you've missed your time slot, sorry, no photo today. And having that empathy for the whole motherhood journey or, or the You know, even just the warning of and trying to understand what they've been through just to get there and really honoring that as really made an effort to get there. Even though the photo is sometimes so fast to actually photograph the child, the sort of in and out of the chair. And then, They're done and they're like, oh my God. All that preparation just for, for that. Yeah.
Cerys:it's so funny because like when I'm training people, one thing that I, I say to them, and they sound so counterintuitive, I, I kind of say like, the experience matters more than the photo. If someone can come in and have a great experience, they attach that experience to the image they're gonna receive. But if they come in and they have a crap experience, they, and you could send them the best, smiliest eye contact photo that, you know, the picture perfect image, and they'd be like, it's rubbish because they're, they're attaching their, their rubbish experience with the photo, the experience matters the most. Just a million times
Anna:more photos are quite unique in that when you look at a photo it's connected to a memory. And I think we as photographers just have to be so aware of that
Cerys:I just want all the moms to know when they come in that we've got you. I
Anna:remember seeing you and. Other girls from our team that you've trained saying, saying, verbalizing, saying to the mom, Oh my God, it's amazing that you got here and look at you, you're wearing your makeup and everything. Go girl. Like that is amazing. As a mother, no one tells you you're doing a great job. Pretty much everywhere in the world on the social medias, from your bloody mother in law, from whoever everyone saying what you're doing wrong. If you come to Pop-ins and someone says, Chick your, your kid looks amazing. You're doing a great job. That is potent stuff. Like I will come back every time to hear that, hear those words.
Cerys:Yeah. Yeah. But, but I mean, I mean it though. That's, that's the thing as well. As someone who just never has that crap together, I am super impressed when moms turn up and their kids are dressed and everyone's looking amazing. And when they come in for a family pop in and they're all coordinated, the mom looks fabulous. So I'm like, yeah, go you, look at you, you, you've got this. You're amazing. Leave the rest up to me. I've got you. You say, when you've been waiting in the car with Cleo and you're passing her the cracker and you're making sure that she's happy and you're trying not to lose your shit and you've, you've got the right outfit. You know, you've, you've spent time thinking about what you're going to put her in and as if you've watched it and you've made sure it's ready for the day of your shoot. You've gone through so much time, energy preparation, and you've, you've made it to the studio. So it's almost like you're passing the baton over to us. Oh, I don't want to just keep saying mums Definitely have, you know, parents that come in, moms, dads, it does feel like a privilege to be in this position.
Anna:I know you as a person have very high empathy, so it's not a struggle for you to put yourself in our customers shoes and sort of really understand that whole journey. You've walked that mile as well. Some of our hosts or some of our team members in Wellington, They haven't got children of their own. Maybe they haven't walked in those shoes. Do you find it difficult to teach empathy basically, or teach the understanding of everything that goes into it? a mum or a parent to actually get to the pop and I think it's quite easy for us to think, well, it's, you know, it's a 20 photo. It's five seconds here, five seconds in and out, but when you have that attitude, like that just really undermines your business because you're not understanding that from the mom's perspective. She's been thinking about that for the last month, probably, you know, when I get back to that pop in chair. And how do you find actually sharing that sort of skill or that understanding with other members of our team who might be training to come up into this little Annie Way?
Cerys:We do have some photographers on the team that don't have children, but I feel like everyone struggles with something and I think just connecting with people on a human level, it's not just about explaining it, it's about seeing it and it doesn't take long if you're looking, if you're looking at your client, take a step back, look at your client as they come through the door. Read their body language. How would you interpret that? Do they look flustered? Do they look actually quite down? Ask them, ask the client, how are you doing today? So actually looking at them and saying, I see you. It's amazing
Anna:how many moms just come in and are like, Would you mind just holding the baby just for a minute? I just really need to go to the toilet. It's like, yes, I finally get to cuddle one. This is good. But you know, they need that. They need a little bit of love. And I think what's really unique about The Little Annie Way is. We say those things, we say it out loud, you know, don't just think, oh, she looks a little bit sad today. Say, you seem a little bit off, is everything okay?
Cerys:The difference between Little Annie, Pop-ins, and every other business that I can think of. Think of is we see our clients every few weeks, so we can tell if you are actually looking at your client, you can tell when something is off. And because we have these customers that come back month after month, The month or even year after year after year, we build connections and community and a safe space for them to go. Now, I've had a really crap morning and I said to my mom, Hey, is everything okay? Can I help hold your bag, grab your bag, whatever it was? Cause. She's looking for something and she said, I just got engaged and I can't find my ring. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, let me give you a cuddle because congratulations and don't worry. We'll find the ring. I've been privy to witnessing some amazing milestones. I
Anna:can't. Yeah. You know, this moment where someone. I'm just blurted out I'm pregnant and I'm having twins and I was like, yes, I haven't told anyone else, but my
Cerys:favorite thing is a mom had emailed in and she's like, Hey, I'm pregnant. And I want to announce it at my mother's day pop in, you know, we, we had this big plan and being a part of. Of these journeys and these huge things in people's lives that I, I, I get to document that and I get to be a part of it. It's, it's awesome. It's because we've allowed the clients space.
Anna:We just got cut off by Zoom and we're just going to come back to this conversation. Before we go back to what we've been talking about with all of the The Little Annie Way, and how we treat our customers and how important it is to empathize with their whole journey, getting to that pop in, I want to ask you what it is that you do to turn your pop in clients into Sunshine Studio clients? Because I know for our international audience, what is it that you do at Pop-ins that turns those clients into. full priced clients I
Cerys:feel like you're going to expect some kind of magic answer from me, but I, I actually do nothing. And it's funny because I'm in a community of other photographers that don't do pop ins and they say, So what are you doing? How, how do you get'em to book your full price session? It's, I, I don't do anything other than, I don't, I'm not doing anything special. I don't think I'm doing anything special. They just, they just book.
Anna:It's So, you are not, you are not like putting flyer into their hands or sort of putting a hard sell on them at Pop-ins or doing anything like that? No.
Cerys:No. So I don't ever want people to feel like I am selling them something. I guess they know I am also a full time photographer and I offer these services and they come to the studio and they see the artwork on the wall and I'm not doing anything other than being myself. And when they're ready to book something else, which. You know, and lots of parents want to book birthday shoots. I'm at the forefront of their mind, I guess.
Anna:I really feel like it's all it takes, you know, like just being kind to people. It's all it takes and then I come and have you be kind to them again. Um, yeah, yeah, I think it's so potent. I think that whole sort of like not wanting to be sold to as again, empathizing with what your customer feels. And that is almost more potent at Pop-ins because. When you book something cheap like this, especially from a photographer, I think you're almost expecting to be sold to you're expecting that maybe it's, there's some catch along the way somewhere. And then you get your photo taken. It's great. And then you get your photo back and there's no, like, there's no catch. It's even more impactful, you know, that then the customer's like, wow. And they can trust you.
Cerys:You make a really good point. I haven't really thought about it from that point of view. Yeah, that makes so much sense. You've just made it so clear to me. I've never thought about it from that point of view. Right.
Anna:So Cerys, I'm guessing that our audience is kind of listening to this conversation and thinking, this sounds like crazy. I don't know how I'm going to do this. Like surely they're not having big, deep and meaningful conversations with hundreds of customers. During the day while taking these photos so fast, and this is all like one minute a person, like, how do we actually do this? So I was thinking you and I could sort of walk through a pop in and act out what it usually kind of looks like when a mom comes in pop in. So for this, hopefully you're up for this. You be you. Yeah. And I'll be a mom. I've got, I'm qualified because I have my own 11 month old baby who is, Uh, in the house right now. Um, I know, that's right. Coming into Pop-ins. I've just got here. Oh my God. I've been driving Here I come. I'm in the door.
Cerys:First of all, I see you frantically coming towards the door. And the first thing I do is open the door. You've made it in time. You can breathe. I'll get, do you want me to hold on to Marnie oh my God. Thank you. And then one thing I tell like my photographer is. Every second counts, they just, opening the door, oh my gosh, come on in, come on in, don't worry,
Anna:we've got this, you've made it, you've made it. Open the door, like, how hard is that to do? Like, open the door. Yeah, you've got your arms full. You've got a toddler, a baby, a
Cerys:nappy bag. And then I'll go, it's Marnie, isn't it? And you'd go, oh my God, yes. Do you remember that? I'm so
Anna:you're so good at remembering names, Cerys. I'm sure people say it like 20 times a day.
Cerys:Yeah, but also sometimes it is an educated guess because we've got this amazing app that I can go, you know what, there's three people left to check in and one of them is a client that's got two kids booked in. So two of those bookings and you've turned up with two kids that look about the right age and I'll go, Hey, it's Marnie and Cleo, right? And you'd go, wait, you remember me? And immediately you feel special. I remembered your kids names. Yes. Um, also just, I would be getting down and go, hey, Cleo, come on in. Let's have some fun. And I'd be talking to Cleo, not just to you. Uh, I, I feel like at the beginning, we kind of talked a lot about connections and connecting with moms, but it's also, For me, like I am a big kid and I want to play with the kids and interact with them and make this a fun, safe place for the kids. So using their name is always really important to me. So you come in and this is like all in the space of 10 seconds, so you know, Pop-ins might only be two minutes, but in that time I've opened the door, I've greeted you, I've used your kids names, I've reassured you, I've ticked you off. you know, whilst you come in and get settled for a second. Then I, I take literally one second to just look at the mom and ask, Hey, how are you doing?
Anna:And I probably just say, Oh, fine. Yep. Good. Thank you. Yeah. In the morning, but yes, I'm good. How are you? And I'll
Cerys:go, Oh yeah. You know, okay. And then I'll just, Just that natural conversation, depending on what that response is. Yeah, I've had a morning and I'll go, Oh, I feel you. My, uh, I can remember when my four year old just, just, I mean, he's still like that, my four year olds, you know, Oh, I say four. He's not four anymore. He's five. No, you know, I would just say,
Anna:Even just saying that he's not four, he's five. And then I'll probably say, Oh my God, I can't believe that he's at school already. I can't believe Cleo's off to school in a few months. It's like. And then I would go, no,
Cerys:wait, Cleo's off to school in a few months.
Anna:Yeah. It's so easy to sort of like take this conversation, you know, take, if you're listening to your client and understanding sort of like these different milestones as well, you know, birthdays are a big deal. Going to school is a huge deal. Starting to walk, starting to clap. Oh my gosh, he's got a tooth. Like his hair's getting really long. Like it doesn't take much to sort of notice something or have even a few of those things up your sleeve. In the olden days when I used to be shooting. I remember every person who came in, we didn't have the check in system at that time, so I didn't always know their name. It was always like, Hi, buddy, oh my gosh, it's so great to see you again. I don't know their name. Yeah. Um, and you know, your hair is getting so long or he's getting so big. You can say that to anybody and it feels like, yeah, other that you remember them, you recognize them. Sometimes you do. And Sometimes you maybe don't, but that starts the conversation. It gets them feeling like they're seen that, they're knowing that at some place where they're a regular and yeah, and then the conversation can just evolve. And I
Cerys:feel like as well, the girls in our team that don't have kids, they definitely use like those tactics, but also because after three months, I can see the girls. Already recognizing the children, they come in and they're like, Oh, whoa, look, Oh, Hunter. Oh my goodness. Hunter's walking. I just, I swear they, I just saw him and he was just learning to sit up or, you know, they take note, they are paying attention. And I guess that's what it's all about, isn't it? It's just paying
Anna:attention. Yeah. You can notice that and then keep it internal. I think what's really important is verbalizing that and making the customer realize that you. Uh, watching that you, uh, invested in their child as well. It is, it is a really special, unique window into. A baby's life when you're literally seeing them every month, we really are seeing their milestones as they evolve and capturing those. It's really special. If we only
Cerys:have an event, say of 20 people, it doesn't take much to just have a look at those names of who's coming in today and clicking through their account. Have they been before? What do they look like? When did they last pop? It's like doing your research and just refreshing your memory. Oh gosh, yeah, I remember this kid. Oh, that kid last time was, was having a hard day. There's still things like that that you can do because you've got access to all this information that's just right there in front of you that I guess it's like a cheat sheet. If you are looking for connection with your clients, there's all their past photos or That information is there for you to make that connection. Like you just said to me that I've got an 11 month old on my lap and my instinct just go, Holy moly, Marnie's 11 months. It's like, Oh my gosh, she's almost one. That's how fast that goes. You know, that, that old saying of the days are long, but the years are short. I feel that when I see my clients come in and I see them, you know, Once a month, sometimes more than once a month, depending on how many specials we've got going on. I, I see that growth and I, I might, whoa, oh, oh my gosh, they've grown so much or like Marnie's almost one, like, wow, where did that time go? What a bloody privilege that is. I get to witness. These first experiences
Anna:with you and I think it's so amazing to know, like now eight years in, we've got these clients who've been coming for literally years. And they're coming with their second and third, maybe even fourth baby now. And it's so, it's just fascinating sort of thinking back, you know, if they were there with their first newborn, first time mom, like what a journey. And we, we were there for that. We remember, you know, like how it was, you've seen that sort of whole evolution of motherhood. Like it's, it's amazing. I love your, um, thank you very much for your plugging. My little website has a lot of tools that help us fit around this The Little Annie Way, because my service can never be replaced by an application, obviously, but you're talking about how we've got information in there about the child's name, their age, and that gives us a bit of a headstart when they're checking in, we can see who's coming in for the day. Is there anything else? That you could speak to around, um, out at popinphotos. com and see how you use that to sort of like make your pop ins efficient and keep things running on the day.
Cerys:So I, when I started with you, we were still using, um, spreadsheets. Oh man, I remember talking about the app and the development stages of it. And I was so bloody excited just for a million different reasons. I mean, my, my first. thing that I was personally looking forward to was the upload process of uploading images, but actually once we got the app, holy moly, it makes your whole life easier. My favorite thing at the moment is. We have a little symbol, if they are a first time customer, that's so bloody important. You've got someone that comes in, they've never been to the studio before, they've never met you before. This is our first time coming in and such a good opportunity to have that identified. So then you can straight away start getting to know your client. Hey Marnie, how are you doing? My name's Cerys.
Anna:Tell me more, like, what does the conversation look like when it's a new customer for the first time coming into their pop ins? How does that conversation look different to someone who's maybe come three or four or twelve times before?
Cerys:It's funny because in Wellington, I can't be like, Oh, Cerys is, Cerys, I'll look after you. She's been here, yeah, she's been here ages and she's photographed all my children and, and instantly the mums feel like comfortable talking to each other and I'll be maybe talking to the child. And if they're clinging on to mum's leg, I'll, I'll, I'll talk to mum a little bit more. Make this feel like a safe place for the child as well as the parent.
Anna:And you raised such a good point. The conversation isn't entirely on the photographer or the person on the desk either. We've got other mums. Or dad's in the room sitting and waiting for their turn. Potentially. You can foster those conversations with them as well. You know, if someone chips in and says, Cerys is amazing. You're, you're in the same hands. Let that mom and that mom talk to each other and build or like, you know, like that, that whole thing about community that you're talking about. It's just so potent. It's, it's exactly what keeps our customers coming back again and again.
Cerys:You know, recently this kind of goes off subject slightly, but recently, um, we had two moms in the room and all the children were wearing Mickey Mouse gear and Disney gear. And one mom said, we're going on the Disney cruise. And the other mom went, we are too. And I kind of sat there and let that conversation flow. And they're like, Oh yeah, I'm staying in this room. I'm staying in this room. And then they. I found out later on the their next pop-in, they met up, the kiss hung out and Oh my gosh, it's so cool. And they met at a pop-in. Yeah, they're making
Anna:friends. I love that. It's so hard to make a friend as an adult, and if you have an opportunity, there are a few minutes there where you can connect with somebody and whether that's with a or another mom in the room. Yeah, I love that about, yeah.
Cerys:Yeah. It's just that real sense of community that I. I just, I just love it. I always kind of say, I guess in a jokey way, but I mean it. I always say, Oh, welcome to Pop-ins. It's a bit addictive. And I always hear always, you know, another parent in the room guy. It totally is. We'll probably see you next month. And a parent saying that,
Anna:not me. Those two moms sitting there having this like meeting, you've also got another mom sitting there who might be here for the first time with her new baby. Even just sort of being witness to that, like, that little friendship connection thing happening and feeling like you're a little bit part of it, or maybe at some point when you come to Pop-ins you might be able to meet a friend as well. I love that. And I think moms really love that as well. Just turning the conversation, uh, around a little bit to thinking about what happens when we're coming in. We've got a client coming in who's they've clearly carried in a storm cloud with them. I've had a day and a half, maybe they're struggling with something bigger. You know, that they're sort of probably a bit of a prickly mom and you'll, you'll maybe sitting yourself up for. Uh, bad experience here and the mom's not going to be happy with their photo. Cause she's coming with all of the stuff in her head. I think one of the really important things that we do as part of the little any way is like land on pretty thick with the compliments. Um, so tell me more about that. Like talk me through some of the compliments that you'd like to give moms, especially moms who look like they're really having a day and a half. Uh,
Cerys:you know, it's really hard not to picture a particular client in this scenario. We had this client, she always carried on a storm cloud and she carried on popping and then I felt like I stopped thinking about trying to get the perfect photo. It was that moment of stopping and saying to her, Hey, are you okay? And she just looked at me. And she broke down crying and she was like, no, nothing's okay. And, you know, basically just told me a lot of personal stuff. I suddenly, I was like, Oh my goodness, there's no way. All make sense. We're all carrying some bank, you know, probably fighting something. And I was, it was that moment for me where I went like, she's not, she's not mad at me. She's having a bad day.
Anna:I think it's so easy for us to sort of think it's such a drag, you know, every time she comes in, she sort of drags the mood down. She's always complaining and it's such a pain. I just don't even want to deal with this customer anymore. If you, if you look beyond the surface and I think. 99% of the time we've got customers who are dealing with something more, you know, maybe they're under a, a proper postpartum depression cloud, or they're having trouble in their marriages, or there's something, there's always something under the surface, you know, like you can't be that annoyed about a a photo or, you know, like ly something else, and you don't always have to call that out. But being aware of that and not taking it on as like a personal attack. What's really special about you and, and the other members of our team, it's, it's been able to look beyond that surface sort of like a little bit grumbly grumpy and see that there's something else going on there and then seeing what we can do about that. And I mean, we're not, we're not out there giving, you know, therapy or anything like that. Being kind. Offering a compliment, not taking on the energy and instead just giving it light and that love and that kindness. I think as well,
Cerys:sometimes when people come in, as a mom, you're holding space in your head for about 10 tasks and then you come in and then it's, Oh my gosh, look at you, you look gorgeous. And how do you always put that together? And you know, just that compliment, compliment, compliment, and you're doing a great job. And I feel like as a mom, we don't hear that enough. It's so
Anna:powerful because, you know, someone says something like that. When you're in a vulnerable place, those words don't ring in your head for the rest of the day, right? She said, I'm doing a good job. If you're really doubting that within yourself, that has an impact. That's not nothing. Yeah. Especially these days with social media. The mums are wanting that photo that really looks perfect too, you know, you kind of want to be able to, at least if you're not feeling great, project that, that at least it's important to see that your child looks happy. And sometimes it's hard to get photos out of every child, especially at Pop-ins, but it's sort of quick in and out and things, but for the mum, it's, it's really key. We come in with a lot of worries where it's, Oh my God, this. My baby is just gonna scream her head off and that's gonna be more visual proof that I'm hopeless at this.
Cerys:But also they're like reassuring the parents yet when those, when those kids come in and okay. Yeah. Maybe they have been crying and they don't want to let go of mom and mom's feeling like all that pressure. Just being like, Hey, come on over and being kind and patient. Oh gosh, that's like worth a million. That's. You know, worth a million dollars to me if someone can just give me kindness and patience when I'm feeling at the end of my rope, I've just, I've put so much energy into getting here today.
Anna:I know you just want
Cerys:someone else. You just, as a parent, you're like, please help me. And yeah, okay. That might just be me as the photographer going, Hey mom, come and sit down next to me. So, you know, your baby's at my height. So I can talk to them and get to know them and make them feel comfortable. And then the mom's like, holy cow, how did you do that? And turning the kid around to being a complete nope to getting in the chair.
Anna:Taking control of the shoot, really operating with authority in there and showing the customer that you. You've got this, like you fully understand what your role is. You know what you're doing. You're going to absolutely smash this. Like, you know, that you can take any baby and butter them up and you can put them into a tube and you've got the tricks up your sleeve to like, get a smile out of them really quick. And if they're not smiling. That's okay. And we make that feel fine too. A lot of times the mom's coming in with this real expectation, quite heavy expectation that, that, you know, they want a smile out of their child. It's even more than that. Like they want the smile that they get. And sometimes we have, I doubt that it's so smiley and the mom's like, that doesn't really look like the smile that I was hoping for. I, that's where it comes into it where the whole experience is. It's more valuable than the photo, you know, coming into a shoot where they're feeling like you potentially don't know what you're doing, or you're having a hard time getting the smile out of that child. And that feels like, and you're really working at it and it's not happening and you don't reassure them. Then they get a photo back. It might be smiling. It might be cute, but you're kind of looking at it way more skeptically than you would if you're going through this process where the photographer is taking control. They're like making that. That tickler work for them, they're getting the noise out, the child is eating it up or even if they're not, they're just sort of like least looking engaged. The photographer's getting a photo and they're saying, Oh, that looks so cute. He's not smiling, but it doesn't really matter. Look how gorgeous he is in those big blue eyes and you know, everything else, get that photo back. You're like, Oh, look at his big blue eyes. It's, you have really a lot of power at that shoot where to get into people's heads with they want to be seeing when they, when they're looking at that photo.
Cerys:Oh, yeah. Totally. One thing I say a lot is I've got the cutest shot in there. I've got the cutest shot intheret. And it would be like so easy to give up and be like, oh gosh, now this kid's just going to nope out today. What's, what's the point in even trying? This kid is not having a bar of it. And if you reflect that energy back, you know, the kids comes in. And nopes out and you just mirror that energy. I'm going to know part two. Then the parents just give me like, I have made so much effort to get here today. And you can't even put in a bit of effort to, you know, try and get my child to sit in the chair. If you are pulling out. All the tricks and all the stops to connect to that child, like, Oh, Hey, Cleo, it's like, what have I got? And distracting them using the distraction technique where you're maybe getting in the balls or whatever. Um, and, and just trying to connect to that child and making the effort, which by the way, only usually takes about, I would say 20 seconds with them, with them in the safety of their mom's arm at your eye level whilst you're sat. Down on the floor, connecting with your, with your client, connecting with mom, connecting with the baby. It literally takes 20 seconds and 20 seconds to the mom in that moment will feel like you've just spent an hour trying to connect with the child. You are putting in effort and then getting the child into the chair and trying to turn that note around. Oh, I mean, it makes the world of a different, you're giving them an opportunity for this to succeed.
Anna:Yeah. And I love about watching you shoot when you have a note like that, when a kid is just like not having a bar of it and then you turn it around and it looks like a freaking miracle, but you also a mom into it at the end of that, like, yes, we did it. Like we got, we got it, you know, like that process. So it's not like. It's not like, Oh God, I'm shit at parenting, but Cerys. Uh, she should be the mother of this child because clearly she has tricks that I do not have. You're kind of like, we did it, you know, like this. Yeah. Like high five.
Cerys:Yeah. High five. All the time. I
Anna:mean, that's really important as well.
Cerys:So because it is a real team effort, I feel like if you are showing up and you're, you're putting in that energy, the mom, or, you know, the parents going to start picking up on that and they, you kind of bounce off each other. And. You know, something simple like throwing the ball back, back and forth, or I'll be silly and I'll maybe like throw the ball up and let it hit me on the head and then I'll pass it to mom and I'll be like, Hey, you know, for this to me, um, and just, you know, interaction with the mom to make it a safe place. So yeah, but it, I mean, it's, it's so important to know, you know, for that parent to know they're as much as part of the success, you know, as I have. It's not just me.
Anna:Right. So Cerys, Cerys, we're back. This is our third Zoom call. Zoom keeps kicking us off because we've got so much to talk about. Um, there's so much to the The Little Annie Way that we. I think you and I could probably talk about this for like a full week straight, but I just wanted to go back to basics. And I think that there's this really important part of the The Little Annie Way, which is what we call the great handoff. So that's when the customer comes in. and that's that moment that we've sort of been talking about. About getting the child actually into the chair. and you and I have talked about this before, where there's just this really essential micro moment. We are looking at the baby and you're really getting a read on how they're feeling. So talk me through that process. Like, how do you go about transitioning out of mom's arms where the baby's lovely and safe into the chair?
Cerys:This is one of those things that is so important to the flow of the day in ensuring that your, your popping day runs smoothly. I don't know if this is something I've always done, but it's just looking at the baby, making eye contact with the baby, smiling. I'm looking at the baby and then I'm gauging their response and like, ah, it's smiling. And depending on the age of the baby, are you ready for your pop in? Or, you know, if it's a bigger kid, Hey, come on, dude, are you ready to like hop in the chair? And depending, you know, that. A toddler. Do you want to climb in the chair or should I lift you in? There's, you know, there's, there's two choices that basically lead to the same thing. Um, or hey mom, do you want to pop baby straight in the chair? If they look happy and comfortable enough. And it's just about, uh, yeah, it's just all about making eye contact straight away and being like,
Anna:hi, and having that smiling sort of open expression and your eyes open, you're, you're really smiling and showing them what, you know, like a, you're not a scary person but also that, that, that's the expression that you want from them as well. And babies are really great at mirroring., faces. So you're usually going to get a little smile out of the baby at that point. In return, but sometimes you see the baby just fully koala mode into them and they are clinging on. There's a stage that we know of around sort of like eight, nine months where the babies go full on koala, and then I'm like being away from your mamas. if you see a baby sort of shrink back into their mommy, and they're obviously not wanting to get into the chair, what's your, what's your next go there?
Cerys:Oh, distract, distract, distract. Um, I know we talk a lot about compliment, compliment, compliment for moms, but for kids, it's all about distracting. yeah, it's, uh, getting them on your, getting mom to come down to your level, making sure they're like, Yeah, whilst they're in the safety of their parents arms, connecting to that child. It's just those little things that you can do. And yeah, you, you said it before, micro moments. It's not just when it's their turn to come into the chair. It's actually the second they come in. And making contact with them like, Oh, Hey, you ready? And like, are you, have you come for your pop in today? Yeah, it's going to be your turn soon. and that might be just, you know, like between clients before I call the next person. I'm like, Oh, Hey, Max, it's your turn. Are you ready, buddy? Come on over. And then. If they, if I see, and I gauge their reaction, they're like, Nope, I am not coming over to you. I've got full blown stranger danger. I'd be like, Hey mum, do you want to bring Max over and, come and sit here next to me. And rather than them plonking the child straight in the chair, which, if they are already nervous, they're already, skeptical about what the heck is going on, you'd need to be able to just make a small connection with that child to go, this is going to be fun. This, yeah, we're here to have a good time. And I might go, Oh, Hey, is this, is this your bunny? Should we put bunny in the chair? Should we tickle bunny? Oh my goodness. I bet you can't make bunny laugh and being really playful. And then I'll maybe take a picture of the bunny or, you know, we've got a duck in our basket. So if they don't have a toy, I'll maybe put the duck in I'm going to tickle. Ducky. Are you ready? one... two... And it's also just showing them, this is what we do. And then I take a photo and I show them the photo and the kid's like, okay, I kind of get it. This is the process. And that's not that scary. And then when they're kind of looking like they're smiling it back at me, which. It's usually what happens. And I'll go, Are you ready to climb up in the chair? And then they'll get in the chair and then I'll say, Do you want some tickles? Just basically turning that whole experience around for the child to making it,
Anna:It's that confidence again, right. It's sort of, it's empathizing with the child as well as the mother. And it's taking control the child can sense that as well when they, when they can see that, you know, what you're doing, you've got some cool tricks up your sleeve and like playing that whole scenario through with them, with their rabbit or with the toy that they're carrying or, you know, a toy from your own basket. And then beyond that, also going like, Oh, great job, bunny hop down, bunny. You're all finished. It was quick, wasn't it? And then the child can say this. Oh, look, should
Cerys:we get a sticker for bunny?
Anna:Great job. And you sent me an awesome video the other day of a really great tactic that I've seen used quite a lot, which is, feeding the duck puppet, which kids love, like pretty much spans the whole age range but we've got a few like fluffy pom poms in our kit and a duck puppet. And the idea is, throws the pom pom over to the child, then we say, do you want to feed the ducky? We go yum, yum, yum with the puppet and the child, the ball and the, duck eats the ball and it was like, Oh, yummy. Um, and the kids just like fricking love it. And then, you know, like you can play that game again and again, and they forget the fact that you're taking photos at all. The skill of the photographer is obviously like being able to play that game and take photos. I remember that you've got to be trying to capture those sort of expressions as well.
Cerys:Yeah. Yeah. And then again, a good thing to like mention that, and you know, I've done this with your kids. Um, if, if the child is looking a little bit like, I don't want that. puppet, or you coming into my personal space. And sometimes that happens, you know, it doesn't matter how well you that child and how long you've been photographing them. They, they walk through stages where they're like, I don't want you in my personal space. So I do this like really stupid, fun thing for the kid where I'll like, maybe go like, nom, nom, nom, almost coming towards them and I'm gauging their reaction. Does this child actually want me in their personal space? And if I think, oh no, they don't, I'll go like, back towards my own face with the duck puppet and pretend the duck is like nomming at me, which usually cracks a smile. Like, haha, they got you. They didn't get
Anna:me. That's like my favorite trick that you, have done when you're photographing my children, because it cracks me up. It's really funny when you do it and so it's the mother standing there laughing away and then my child is seeing me laughing and having a good time. And so that more relaxed, you got to give some credit to also this connection between the mom and the baby where the, the child is looking at their mother for how they're feeling and trying to get a gauge on how they should be reacting as well. So if you can crack up the parent, or if you can really. Sort of butter up the parent and make sure that they're feeling really relaxed in this situation as well. That really feeds through to how the baby's feeling too.
Cerys:Yeah. Yeah. And like the, the very first, like before all of that, before, you know, I might take the duck out the basket, as soon as the child is like, made it into the chair, I, the first thing I do is take that safe shot because you actually don't know how that child's going to react. I'm trying my best to, gauge their reactions. And is this child looking a little bit unsure or are they now ready for like a bit of fun, but I just take a safe shot so that I can always deliver something to the parent. And if the child completely nopes out, I've got a safe shot and I always say to the parent, Hey, at least, you know, we've got this moment in time. We've captured this, this. milestone that your child is currently going through where they're maybe a little bit, you know, on that stranger danger, milestone. So we just. Always want to make sure I've captured something with the parents so that they can always look back on, this moment and remember that time. Oh my God. Do you remember that? And now like we have parents that come in and they're like, Oh my goodness, do you remember that time where he wouldn't even get in the chair? And now look at him. He's like climbing up and he's posing
Anna:and I guess that circles back to what we're talking about with the mom, you know, who comes in with the thunderstorm that's not a personal attack of a child is not smiling at you. They're just not feeling it that day. And I think rising above that, keeping going and keeping your sort of like spiel up and being fun rather than, sort of taking that on like, Oh God, this child is hard to shoot. Yeah, it was really important. And just understanding that that's just today and next month, he's probably going to be a lot, you know, a whole nother child.
Cerys:Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it all starts from that second. They walk in the door
Anna:I will say about you particularly shooting, and what we teach our team of photographers to do in Wellington is really keep up this kind of like repartee as we're going through the shoot. You don't really want to have these moments where it's like a bit of a lull and quiet and sort of awkward. So I think, uh, it's really key to have a bit of a script in your mind. You know, like the moment that the mom comes in, it's you're in control. You're taking the conversation by control as well. Where you're like, Hey, how you going? Let's come on through to the chair. Oh my gosh. You look so cute today. Come on, let's sit you down. Um, and you're talking the whole time, you know, like, do you want to play with the balls? Here we go. Here's the tickler. Here it comes. And you're just, It's like giving them plenty of reinforcement to where it's like, that looks gorgeous. Yes. Keep it up. Oh my God. You're cute. Look at your hair. Look at your your shoes. Yeah. Look at your cool shoes. Yeah. And just choose a bloody adorable energy that's going through the shoot. Like that really has a big impact. And also. I think helps get those smiles or that it's easy, relaxed expressions coming through a lot more quickly. And that means that you can move on to the next child more quickly too. So yeah, that's really important. It's quite a, it's quite a unique skill. It can be tricky to learn, especially if you're already a skilled photographer, there's a whole lot more to shooting pop ins than just taking the photos. It's like having that energy to move the day along and keep things flowing like there's a lot to it. Oh my goodness. It's so funny
Cerys:that you say about being a skilled photographer because, I mean, I, I've been here for a few years and you know, me, I, I don't ever, ever see myself as, being a great photographer. I just think I, I, you know, I put myself down a lot and I have, um, what do they call it? Imposter syndrome all the time. And it, and it's that, okay, I might not be the best photographer, but I've got clients that come back month after month after month. Um, you know, we've gone from maybe doing 60 Pop-ins. A day or, you know, a month, cause I think when we started, we had like the two days in Karori and now we do like almost a thousand, which just seems so crazy. And you know, when we are looking at the client numbers the other day and just genuinely excited about the amount of people that we've photographed here in Wellington and it goes in my mind, like, uh, wait, uh huh. Um, but I, I tell myself I'm not a great photographer, but then there's like thousands of people that keep coming back and it's, yeah, it's, it's not just about the photo.
Anna:I mean, I will say Cerys, you are an amazing photographer and I think you'll be very hard on yourself. and very humble there. But that's touched the point we're talking about the, the photographer's role is not. Just clicking the button. It's about creating an experience. You're going to connect to that photo as the memory. Whenever, ever you look at that picture, you're going to remember that whole experience and that that's a real skill.
Cerys:Thanks. It's nice to hear I mean, I, I know there's a lot of photographers out there that can relate to that imposter syndrome and not maybe feeling like you're the, you know, the
Anna:greatest. Absolutely. I think as soon as you start, you're really good at it. That's when you lose interest. Let's just quickly change topic and talk about outfits because outfits are like a huge deal for our pop in clients. We have a popaholics group and I feel like 99 percent of the conversation is about what am I going to wear next month? And a whole part of this customer journey that we've got is the mom planning out these outfits, maybe buying something new for their baby to wear. I remember you, when you brought Max in when he was, It's just a little Bubba and we saw him every month. Um, when I first met you way back in the day, Max's collection had him wearing his same outfit as he was growing. You've had it in a few different sizes. Um, some of our moms are creating these collections. They've got the vision for the whole year when they want to put those photos together and the outfits all the same or the outfits. So I'm doing Marnie's collection at the moment, hers are all pink outfits. i want them to look nice together in the frame. And I think. A lot of the The Little Annie Way, and a lot of like a conversation on the day focuses in around those, outfits and like recognizing how much thought has gone into those. So talk me through how you go about acknowledging that part of the journey and what you say to the moms and that kind of thing, because I think that's a real simple way to like. Have a conversation.
Cerys:Oh, see, there was this one client and it got to about the third month that I realized I recognized the baby because of the outfit she had put him in. And I was like, Oh my goodness. And I was like, Hey, did you, and at first I was like, Hey, hang on, wait, did you forget you already put him in this outfit? And I was like, Oh my goodness, you've put him in the same outfit. That's so cool. And uh, have you, have you bought every size? How amazing are you? What like, great forward thinking or, you know, towards the end of the year, I'm like, go you, you've, you know, you've got this collection of images of the baby in the same outfit. Um, It's so impressive. It's so
Anna:cool. Do you remember that customer that we had who she had her first boy and she put kind of just put any outfit on, I think they were also bluish, but you know, like every month she was just out with whatever outfit she could, she thought would look cute on him, but then when she had her second baby, another boy, she put. All the outfits that her first child had worn and did like a matching set, basically. So one month they were wearing the same, the same side by side. Yeah. It was so cool. Such a good collection. You know, have like both of your boys hung up on the wall and you can really compare them because they're wearing the same, same outfit as each other at the same age. So, so cool. So much you can do with Pop-ins. We've got
Cerys:one mom in Wellington that she does the classic white t shirt, blue jeans or blue pants. And she has done it for, she's now got three boys and she's done it for every single one of her babies. But she's also done it for her family pop in and her mother's day pop in. And she just kind of said she wanted the focus to be on the kid, like not so much the outfit, but the outfits. Kind of become like this running thing now. It's like, well, I don't even have to think about it now because I know exactly what I'm gonna, um, yeah, but she's, yeah, she, she put so much thought in, you know, that first year. It's that, that comparative, the side by side. And I'm like, wait, are you, is this, are these
Anna:twins? Um, Yeah. You've got your customer already thinking about their whole collection too, like that that's your job done. Like they're, they're definitely going to come in again and again, right? Because they're thinking about how it's going to look at the end with that, all those pictures together. So I think it's so important, you know, like seeing these mums come in, recognizing that they're trying to work towards this bigger collection and sort of talking about that as well, like getting them invested in the idea that they might want to think about how it looks at the end or, really acknowledging that verbally as well at the time being like, Oh, you look so cute in that way. I love it. Little overalls on, you know, on girls
Cerys:boys, the boys and like the little suspenders and like a decade ago and they, and I'm like, Oh my goodness. And then the moment got, yeah, I've got it in like every size and I'm like, yeah, like how organized you are. And then, oh, coming up to the first birthday, you know, and I know that there's birthdays next month. So, and I'd be like, are you going to change the outfit? Oh, but what are you you going to do the same thing next year? And I'm like, Oh yeah, we've already got our, we've already got our second year outfit planned and we're going to do this.
Anna:When you've got Marnie coming in at 11 months and you know, you can see on the screen, it says she's 11 months, you know, the next pop in is going to be. The birthday one, like what a great topic of conversation. You know, the mom's already thinking about it. I've been thinking about money's Pop-in birthday outfit for months now like, ask the mom, what's she going to wear next month as her birthday photo. Oh my gosh. You're going to have to do something special. Like, you know, you're going to put on a little tattoo, like feel free to bring along a balloon or a crown or something like that. So special. Um, right. You know, like I think saying things like that, really saying them out loud, the moms can see that you really understand what it is for them and understand that it's not just a cheap quick photo for them. It's, it's about really capturing their child. Like how important is that?
Cerys:Oh, and another thing as well. Um, as I've noticed, you know, at first they'll come in and they'll have bows on the baby and I'll be like, Oh, you don't have the bow today. And they're like, yeah, we really want to show off all that hair. That's fine. And they come in like, Oh, that's awesome. And just like recognizing and like, Oh wait, did you have a bow as well? And they're like, Oh my gosh, you're paying attention.
Anna:And just to plug the little website again, popinphotos.com. I mean, it's so great that we can check into the customer's history and we can easily see their past photos. Like we don't actually have to. I mean, obviously we're connecting with these people, so we do sort of remember what they're working on anyway, but you've got a little cheat sheet there. If you can't really remember, or if you want to jog your memory, especially for us in Wellington shooting so many pop ins now, if you have a quick look back at the customer's history, then you're teed up to say something like, Oh my gosh, wait, hang on. We haven't got Mr. Bunny. Where is he? Um, and that's all the difference to the customer. Yeah, also
Cerys:as well, like that remembering things for the clients, things like we've got those light up numbers or we've got like the little wooden numbers and I'm like, Oh, hey, for Cleo first birthday. You use the, you use the light up number one, do you want to, do you want to put that in Marnie's photo? Uh huh. Oh, did I? And you know, and, and, and just think, and I would, I know Parkinson's is a big thing. Technically one photo, but for that, you know, for that first one, I'd go chop on with or without and just like sneakily, you just sneakily just include
Anna:in that extra shot for that loyal customer. Yeah. It's this, this idea of like giving little treats and extras. Um, this is something that's been kind of front of mind at the moment, um, as we're talking about a The Little Annie Way, and how our brand in New Zealand works. And, you know, right. We've gotten to a point where we've been quite strict and really restricted it down to that one photo. So we don't have customers having expectations that are out of what we can realistically achieve at high volume, but going back full circle with that, realizing like the power of just giving a little extra every now and then, especially for those customers that you see all the time and you know, are really invested in their pop ins, like how much of a powerful thing that is just to, just to give them a second photo sometimes.
Cerys:Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's, usually like, Oh my goodness, your, your baby is turning one and, and something as simple as going, do you want one with With the number one, and I'll just do one with that real quick. Literally takes you two seconds to take an extra shot without the number one in there and just include that for that. And that, that two seconds of going, Oh, Hey, I'm just going to do this. For you, it makes that client feel like you value them, not, you know, it's, if it makes them feel like you're, you're doing something special just for them, there could be another 10 people in the room, but you're sneakily saying, I'm going to give you something extra. Well
Anna:done. You just wrapped up this whole like long 3 hour chat that we've been having. Cause that's a the Little Annie Way it's seeing the customer it's understanding their journey and then it's about treasuring them and really nurturing them and like giving them what they want. I think so often as photographers, we get fixated on like. What works for our business and what we are willing to give away and making sure we're paid and all this kind of stuff when actually we take a quick step back and go, what does the mom want? You know, quite customers only want one photo Pop-ins, give you an opportunity to just provide that service that the mom really wants, photos that are downloadable, being able to capture these every month, like these are the things that moms really want and they want to be seen, they want to be known. They want to have a chance to vent their feelings or, or even just have a quick connection with someone where they look you in the eye and say, good job. And that, yeah. So important. And so, so essential to Pop-ins and making sure that a Pop-in venture ends up being successful. And if you can master that, and if you can do that, then trust me, you've got a market for life. You've got customers who are going to be banging down your door. And, and your, and your mate and business will just be easy sailing from there, just as you've experienced in your business and sunshine studios. So, Oh, yeah. Joining me today on How to Pop. And, um, I'm sure that our listeners extremely valuable. Um, so thank you so much for your time. Oh, it's been fun. Thanks for having
Cerys:me.
Anna:Stay tuned, Popstars. The next episode is dropping soon. What do you think? Do you want to get in on this? Hit me up on social media if you have questions. I'm always here to help. Check out our How To Pop Facebook group and join the conversation. If you have enjoyed this podcast, have a look at our website, popinfotos. com. We are very excited to open this amazing tool to new international brands very soon. Sign up to get notified. That's poppinphotos. com