E92: How Music Changes Lives with Maddie Cordes

In this episode of Dream Business, Dream Life, Emma is joined by Madeleine Cordes, founder of Maddie4Music, to explore how music can transform lives, build confidence, and create deep community impact while still being a sustainable, purpose-led business.

Madeleine shares her journey from a corporate career to building a thriving music business alongside it, driven by a desire to give people access to music they may never have had. From community choirs and adult learners to care homes, dementia support, and rehabilitation settings, Maddie4Music is about far more than learning to sing...it’s about wellbeing, belonging, and finding your voice.

The conversation dives into the powerful role music plays in memory, confidence, and emotional expression, including moving stories from care homes, dementia care, and brain injury rehabilitation. Madeleine also reflects honestly on running a passion-led business, setting boundaries, learning when to say no, and growing sustainably through delegation.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in purpose-driven business, creative entrepreneurship, community impact, or the profound link between music and wellbeing.

Key Topics Covered:

• Building a purpose-led business alongside a corporate career
• How music supports confidence, wellbeing, and self-expression
• The impact of music in dementia care and brain injury rehabilitation
• Creating accessible music opportunities within the community
• Running community choirs and care home music programmes
• Lessons learned from building a passion-driven business
• The importance of boundaries, balance, and saying no
• Growing a business through delegation and collaboration
• Why music can unlock memories when words can’t

Maddie4Music is a music education business set up in 2010 in East Kent and led by Maddie Cordes, offering community choirs, wellbeing singing workshops, lessons in piano, singing and violin for adults and young people and entertainment in care homes and day centres. Maddie is passionate about sharing her expertise in the community to help develop confidence and skills through music making. Maddie4 Music was awarded a community award by Deal Town Council and highly
commended by mental health charity MIND. The business has also been nominated in the 2025 Kent Dementia Awards for its creative local initiatives.

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Website: https://www.emmahine.co.uk

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Transcript

Hi, I'm Maddie Cordes from Maddie for Music, which I set up 15 years ago to bring as many singing opportunities to people as possible. From a youth choir to help disadvantaged young people in my area, to have exciting performing opportunities, to running singing workshops for well-being and the benefits of being together and performing locally in the community. singing lessons for people who were told they can't sing, perhaps at church or school, and asked a mime, which I really believe is not the case, and people can develop confidence and unlock their voices working with me. I'm as passionate today as I was 15 years ago about bringing singing to people and people discovering the benefits of singing. 

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Dream Business, Dream Life. Now today I'm joined by Madeline Cordes, who is the founder of Maddie for Music. Maddie is passionate about sharing her expertise in the community to help develop confidence and skills through music making. Hi Maddie, thank you for joining me. How are you today? 

Hi Emma, really well, thank you. Thanks for having me. 

My absolute pleasure. Okay, let's do what I love to do on this podcast. Take us back to, it was 2010 I think, wasn't it, that you started Maddie for Music. What inspired you to start it? 

It was one of those eureka moments really. I was living and working abroad in the Cayman Islands actually in my business career as a governance professional, company secretary. And just because I wanted to, I put on summer holiday workshops for our own sons and my friends and their children. because they were having lessons, you know, clarinet, piano, etc., singing, and I've always enjoyed amateur music making and helping them with their practice and things. So what happened, the eureka moment, was when one of the mums said to me, You really should be a music teacher. And that obviously stayed with me, that comment. And when we returned from the Cayman Islands back to Kent, I decided to retrain as a music teacher. It wasn't going to be a case of swapping completely out of my business career because I have always been the main breadwinner. So I couldn't afford to, you know, give up the big job and pay the mortgage, etc. at that time. But I was able to negotiate to work part-time and to develop the business alongside. 

Which is amazing. Back then, what were you hoping that Maddie for Music would become? What were you hoping it would turn into? 

I think I was open to various things but what really spurred me on was that in the area where we live in East Kent there are some very deprived areas of ex-mining towns and Dover itself is quite impoverished in different parts and at the time my family were involved in amateur dramatics and things and I was aware that there was no real opportunity for young people who perhaps couldn't afford less singing lessons or sign up to expensive attend courses and things like that to sing together. So I think the first thing coming out of the Music Access course, which I did to retrain for the next year, was to set up a youth choir and take them to exciting places to perform, which they wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to do. 

Which is amazing, isn't it? It's very clear that music to you is so much more than just teaching people how to perform music, whether that's singing or you do piano and violin, don't you as well? And there's probably other things that you do along there. So when did you realise that it was more than just teaching, that music was more about supporting, I suppose, your well-being and your confidence, isn't it? It was what I'm hearing from you. When did you realise that it was more than just teaching, that it was that it was there to support all of these other things as well? 

Yeah, I found that I was just uncovering opportunities to help people develop confidence through music. So they might be, you know, wanting to, I don't know, improve their skills or even their work job opportunities. I think it was really when I realized the effect that I could have on people and the difference I could make. So someone might say, oh, I've always wanted to, for instance, and that would be a trigger for me. Oh, I'd always wanted to do a solo on stage. And I get that even now. And that immediately excites me because I know I've got the tools and the experience and the passion for making that happen. So I've just finished a lesson before this podcast with one of my adult students. in his 60s, runs their own business, and he's sung karaoke for many years, but he's always wanted to learn a bit about technique. So that was, I think, going back to your question, what made me think, well, actually, I've got skills from the rest of my life, my business life, bringing out children and to be able to mentor and coach, but through music and to get people going on a journey on their own personal journey, whether that's a child, you know, just where a mum said, Oh, my daughter really loves to sing, can you help to, an older person who perhaps has been told they can't sing or has never sung? 

Yeah, and it's clearly a passion project for you as well as a business, which I absolutely love. I adore that. I think when we are so passionate about something, it not only somehow makes it easier to build the business, and when I use that word easy, I use that lightly because business building is not easy, you know, that is not, but it makes it feel easier because you've got, you know, it's your purpose, isn't it? You're following that passion and everything. anything else. But actually, I think it comes across to the people that you are connecting with and the people that you are trying to bring into your world as well, that they can see how passionate you are about it. Have you always sang, Maddie? Is that something you've always done? Have you always been musical? 

Yeah, I've always been musical and I have to thank mum for really making me stick to it when I was a kid because I was very lucky, unlike some people, to have the opportunity to learn instruments and have private lessons. It's very, very expensive, I know from our own sons. And she helped me with my practice, you know, at home and made sure I did the exams. And at the time I was, oh, mum, you know, I really don't want to do it. And I actually gave up the violin age 15 and the piano 16 and then went back to it all much, much later, you know. But singing, I've always done. I didn't actually train as a singer. I did the violin, the piano, but I've always sung. And in my twenties, when I was working in a bank, I joined the Choral Society in London as a really as a social outlet to meet new people. And I was, you know, working in London at the time, it was very convenient. So I've always sung since then in choirs of different sizes and types. But it was only in 2010 that I started sort of having training myself to be able to teach both, you know, for myself and to teach singing and taking that more seriously as part of the business. 

Yeah, which is amazing. So I said at the very beginning when I introduced you about this passion for you to bring music into the community. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about what that looks like? 

It's over the. for the number of years that I've been doing this, I've found lots of different channels and avenues and I'm a bit of a networker because in my business career I've done a lot of business development. So unlike some musicians who struggle to talk about money or to network or get themselves out there, I enjoy that and I'm quite good at it. So whenever I meet someone new I'm in the back of my mind of thinking, oh, even when I went to a tennis class, tennis in care homes came out of it. So there are a number of channels, but I suppose the main ones are care home entertainment, which has developed over the time I've been running the business from my husband going in occasionally to now having 15 different acts, singers and other acts, going into about 15 homes where I've developed strong relationships and they now don't just book ad hoc, they're part of a little network of activity organisers they even talk to each other and they say oh you've got a shanty man or I want to try you know you've had him in what does he like and things so I've built a little community there so that's one of the biggest areas I suppose and then the other biggest area is my community choir which I've been running almost as long as I've set up Mandifuin use it nearly 14 years now we've all got a bit old so I was about 45 I think at the time and most people in the choir were in their 50s and 60s so we're all getting older but we stayed together, there are about 25 of us, and I've taken the choir to many exciting events and given them opportunities to develop confidence and get to know each other really. So they've got a community of friends there now. 

And that is so important in life, isn't it, in terms of keeping yourself happy, content, and actually giving you sometimes a reason to get up in the morning, isn't it? Because sometimes we just need that thing to actually motivate us to do whatever we need to do. My mother-in-law was in a care home before we lost her with dementia, which I know we'll talk about that because I know you've got your connections in there as well. And I remember we went to, they had, it was like a summer fair, where they had, things going on and various things, happening. And, my mother-in-law wasn't. always very community, that's a big word, isn't it? Communicative. she didn't always have a lot to say towards the end and, didn't always, recognise who we were or what we were there for, felt, what it's like with dementia. Lots of things that weren't reality were her reality. And it was very, sad to see. But when that music kicked in, that summer fair, it was almost like it took her right back in time to when she remembered her whole different life. She remembered there was a song that she used to absolutely love. And all of a sudden, she remembered what that song was well enough to be able to grab her walking frame, totter over to the people who were singing and saying, can you sing this song? And it wasn't perfectly articulated, but they knew what she was, you know, they knew what she was trying to get out. And it was so beautiful to see. And that was the power of music. in that room, that triggered something that we were able to sort of see glimpses of the old Barb. 

Oh, that was lovely, wasn't it? Yeah. Absolutely. That part of the brain that remembers music and songs and... is the last to sort of, you know, decline. So that means that if you can tap into that part of the brain with somebody with dementia, then that's, as you say, good for them and good for the relatives as well, because they do get to see the person they knew. And it also encourages them to express themselves, those residents, because sometimes activities people will say to me, organisers will say, oh, you know, we don't want any sad songs, but actually that tends to be those that are not experienced in dementia, because actually having a cry for a short time obviously, not to be completely distressed, but is actually very good because that to communicate and remember, reminisce and remember good times, it's all part of the human condition and keeping that inside is not healthy for you. So if it's a short period to actually be sad and or maybe just have a little cry and also to have people around you that are supporting you while you do that the staff or the singers themselves is a really good thing so And I mean, one story I've got in a care home particularly is that most recently, part of my new offering of different acts is a tap dancing group. And I've joined this tap dancer group. So of course, you know, opportunities. So I said, oh, you know, why don't we go into a care home? And there was a particular moment, it was a few months ago, where one lady remembered that she did used to tap in seeing the demonstration from the tap group in the home. And we were able to get her up and have a little go and put the hat on and use the cane and that sort of thing. And you could tell, and the residents and the staff all commented about it, how she was remembering the times when she did used to be able to tap and it was just bringing her real joy. 

Yeah, which is amazing, isn't it? you must sit and look at your business and think, how fortunate you are to be able to give people that joy, which I think is absolutely wonderful. And you've received some recognition for that, haven't you? Because, you know, you've done so much for your community. So tell us a little bit about your recognition. 

Well, over the years, I've had a couple of rewards from Mind and from our local town council for community work, because as well as I was saying about the benefits of the choir to themselves, but we go into the community and gig a lot, you know, whether it's for charity or just local community events. So the council event came from that and it's lots of different audiences that we're touching and hopefully bringing joy to. And then most recently, we've been nominated for a couple of different categories in the Kent Dementia Awards, which I think will be in May, and I think Barbara you know, from East End as her husband is going to be presenting this. I'm hoping that we get a chance to be at the event. But it's all about local dementia initiatives. And I felt that and others did that, you know, what we do in care homes in East Kent was valuable. And what I forgot to do, I think, in the going forward, you know, not being very business minded is to actually ask people what they think about Medi for Music and by nominated, I was amazed and blown over by the lovely testimonials that I received from the regular homes that we go into. And then I was able to share that with the singers and the other acts as well. And they were delighted because some of them were named personally as to the impact they've made in the homes they've gone into for Adi for Music. So those sort of stories, like the tap dancer one, we may not have known about that if I hadn't have asked, because normally I get, oh, it was great, or so-and-so was good, or thanks, send your invoice. this day-to-day life and we just get on. But stepping back there and thinking about it and then asking for the testimonials meant that we were able to actually understand much more about the impact we're having in the community. And so fingers crossed, not quite sure when we get to here, but I'm hoping that at least we'll be commended or something, you know, and have our work recognised. 

Absolutely. And Anne, you know, I think with awards, just the fact that you've been nominated is a huge thing to celebrate in itself, isn't it? And obviously, I hope you go on to to win the award because you're definitely very deserving in my eyes. But that recognition for you personally, as the owner of Maddie for Music, but as you say, for the people that you're helping and supporting, for the people who are in your choirs and that sort of thing and going in there, it's sometimes it's we need a bit of recognition, don't we? Sometimes we need to hear that for us to realise how much impact we are actually having on people. 

I think so. And it makes all the work worthwhile because so much of the work I do is unseen to the community. The dross, the sort of admin and the organisation and the herding cats and all that sort of thing and following up invoicing. So I was really surprised and hadn't really looked for it that people said in the care homes things like, oh, Maddie is so relatable and bubbly and she's really easy to deal with. I hadn't asked anything about myself personally, but you know, my head got a bit big, you know, thinking, oh, But I didn't really think of myself in that way. I think of myself as a facilitator and I know I've got the skills. I'm a bit too logical and non-emotional at times because I'm a businesswoman and I've had this sort of corporate background. So yeah, taking the time to actually take that in and realise that what I'm doing is so worthwhile for people. And I wanted to give you one more story that's come to my mind about the care homes and the impact of that which, will have been shared for the awards nomination, which was you mentioned about your mother-in-law and how music you were able to, you know, sort of unlock something through the music. And one of the most special... And things that happened was when my husband went into a brain injuries charity that had a, you know, an activity morning every week. It's called Headway in Folkestone, and he and discovered that everyone, they had various head injuries and many people hadn't spoken for weeks and it was about their rehabilitation, going to a day centre, hoping that they might be able to speak in time. And he ended up singing You'll Never Walk Alone and without realising, this particular gentleman, I don't think... I'm not quite sure how they found out, but he was a Liverpool supporter and he fully sang the song. He still couldn't speak words, but he joined in because, like you were saying, it had unlocked a part of his brain that was able to allow him to do that, even though the rest of the parts were damaged. And that's got to be one of the best stories because Gary came away absolutely uplifted thinking, and the residents were, sorry, the staff were crying and everything because they hadn't heard him say a word, they'd never heard him speak, so he only came to them not speaking. So, I hope that he was able to speak in due course, but it was a lovely moment. 

Absolutely, absolutely. And moments like that really tug on the heartstrings, don't they? really do tug on the heartstrings. So is there something, is there a moment perhaps in your story that sort of really captures why your work is so important to you? Is there something that in your journey that's made you so passionate about doing this and helping these people? 

I think it's two things really, the not having access like I did. So I felt really privileged and at the time I didn't, I took it for granted, having all the music training. So I feel that I've got an obligation to share that expertise, not in a condescending way, but just in a way that if I see people that would benefit, obviously they need to want to do it as well. So I think that's one thing that I feel is when me giving back, I get pleasure from it as well. It's not all one-sided. And the other thing is, and my own teacher, Julie Bale, who I know you know, in the last year I've been on vocal Diva training program to focus on my own singing voice solo singing voice but she is certainly aligned with me on this that so many people have been told that they can't sing that they've been silenced and I have a lot of people come to me whether it's you know at the moment I've got a teenager she was told at school female teenager that that she you Your singing's terrible. So she completely stopped for about seven or eight years and her parents have been really upset about it. But she's come to me and in the last six months she's opened up and developed a really good relationship. And she was able to do sing at school and her leaving things she was telling me. And she was saying to herself, these people were in the room that told her she couldn't sing. And she was, oh, well, I'm walking away now and I know that you're going to be thinking about what you said. So I think that's what drives me as well, because I don't like the thought that somebody feels they have been silenced by anyone if it's something they want to do. And then I had another older gentleman said, I'm in a play, he was an actor, amateur actor, but he said, I've got to sing a line. And I was told I can't sing. I was told to mime in the church choir or the school choir. It's so soul destroying that, you know, that's what happened in the past and it probably still is happening today. He then went on, he did obviously, I went to the play, he did really well, he sang the line. And then he's auditioned for a musical theatre society and took the lead role in the future, which I could see. So I could see the impact of my work in real, you know, on the stage. So they're the two things that I think drive me to do it. 

Amazing, amazing. So just listening to that, I feel like I've got a face ache already because I've smiled so much to listen to your stories and the people that you've helped and supported. It's very, very clear how Maddie for Music and obviously you are impacting other people's lives, other people's lifestyles in some of the darkest moments of the life for some of these people. How would you say that Maddie for Music has supported the life that you want to live? 

That's interesting because again, you don't think so much about yourself when you're giving, do you? 

Exactly. 

I think it's really tapped into another part of me because I hinted at it earlier that, you know, my family see me as the big businesswoman and, you know, I've had the big career. I've managed big teams of 50 people across different jurisdictions so they see me in a certain way and but it's allowed me I think to be much more creative and a lot of the skills are transferable into the music business but I've been able to be more playful, to have fun, to make more friends and through having this other life alongside the corporate business life. It's still a business and I'm still very much treating it as a business. I'm not doing it as a a charitable endeavour. Obviously we do give to charity on occasion as part of our outreach, but I do look at the numbers and make sure that it's working and I'm not devalued, you know. So yeah, I think it's been a great balance alongside the business career, corporate career, to have this smaller music business which is thriving and I feel I'm making a difference. It helps me personally, my own wellbeing. Because when I'm thinking about the well-being of my singers, I'm also doing training myself that allows me to feel good and find different experiences that will give not just my singers, but me a lift and feel good about myself. 

And that's important to do that, isn't it, to think about our own well-being as well as the well-being of the people that we are helping and supporting. Because if we aren't in the right headspace and we're not firing from all cylinders and all of that type of stuff, we're not delivering our best, are we? So I think it's really important that you do that, you actually see what you do as helping your well-being as well. I think that's really, really important to do. 

Is there something on there? Because I did find that whilst I was working full-time for 42 years in the employed work, But I've been a year in now from having stopped doing that. So I'm working as a freelance consultant alongside the music business now. I found that I have neglected myself, especially in terms of, you know, exercise and eating more healthily and things. And I'm so driven by, you know, all the goals and deadlines and things in the business career that I had. And I've loved it. But now I'm able to sit back a little bit and think, well, how do I get a better balance? And my word for this year is definitely balance. So that, you know, I've got time for my family as well and time for myself as well as doing my various business activities. 

Yeah. And that is definitely a challenge for most business owners at some point, isn't it? Getting that balance bit right. You know, all in on one or the other, finding that balance is where it becomes the dream, isn't it? That's absolutely where you get to be. So your business is clearly being built from your purpose, from your passion, from your mission, from the thing that you want to achieve, both personally and obviously for the people that you're helping. What would you say that your biggest lesson is that you've learned that may help other people in that sense around building a passion led business, around building a purpose-led business, what would you say your biggest learning is? 

I think the biggest learning is not to just say yes to everything. So because when you are passion-led and purpose-led, you get approached and through the networking, I get approached by lots of people, you know, could you do this, could you do that and everything. So I think my biggest learning would be to be very selective about where I use my energy and whether it will actually align with my objectives, which I said at the beginning, which were, you know, to make sure that people who have been silenced get a voice, and also people who perhaps haven't had the opportunity to make music and develop their voices. So I try and use that as a checklist in a way and sit back. So I've been asked to collaborate with a choir on a particular concert and they want to come to D and everything. And I was talking to Julie about it and she was saying, we know, is it really what you want to do? Or is it, oh, well, you can do it, but there'll be lots of work and perhaps it doesn't fit those objectives. And actually I've thought about it since I saw her and it does fit my objectives for various reasons, but I had to do that. So I think that's, I had to go through that. process in my mind and make some notes as well about, well, actually, what is the benefit to my choir, to my people? What's the benefit to manage from music? And quite logically work that out. So I think passion is good, but you can end up, you know, becoming overwhelmed and doing things that are perhaps not going to get the value from the investment of time. 

Yeah, exactly. One of the things I say all of the time, and it's not an Emma saying, I know it's a saying that's out there by lots of other people, but it's one that I love to say is just because you can doesn't mean you should. And I think that's a really important lesson, isn't it, that we have to learn. And I think you are 100% spot on there in terms of when your business is driven from your passion, from your purpose, your mission and all of that sort of stuff. It is very easy, isn't it, just to say yes to all of the things because they tick that box in terms of the impact you're looking to have, but actually it is still a business. isn't it? And you still have to look after yourself and you still have to do the things that are right. So yeah, completely sitting and reflecting. That's 100% the right way to go forward, isn't it? 

And also it might affect the core things you're doing because going back to the things that you can, it doesn't mean you should. There are probably 10 things I could do under the Manti for Music banner, and some I've dipped into and done this and this and that as a one-off project. But in preparing for this podcast really, I was thinking, what are the main things that I do, which is the choir and the care homes and the teaching, and they are the three main areas. And then there'll be additional bits and pieces that come in and I think if they fit all the objectives and they fit my mission, then I'll take them on. But you have to be so careful of, I think, in terms of alert learning from other people listening, and starting out or whatever is not to affect the quality of what you're doing as your main roles and main deliverables as such, because I have had times where I've been so busy. Now, a good example is that I was asked to run choirs on cruises, and I've been a couple of times off for three weeks, I've had to change everything. And, you you don't do such a good job for your choir because they had to get a cover leader in and prepare them. They understand and they wanted me to take the opportunity because it was very much a one-off opportunity. But you can easily find yourself being pulled in too many directions, not to have enough time to plan and prepare to do the job properly. So I have to watch that all the time because I am very much a person that gets excited by the idea of a new project and can overcome it. 

Yeah. And I'm with you on that. I'm exactly the same. It's the new and shiny. It's like, oh, exciting. I want to do this thing. I can do this thing. I want to do this thing. But we have to be realistic, don't we, with what we do. And you said something there that, again, I talk about a lot, which is about you're better focusing on just one thing and doing it really, really, really well than trying to do 4, 5, 6, 7 other things because you're not going to do them properly, are you? know, this myth of, you know, we can multitask and do all of the things, but actually we can't. we've only got so much space in our brains, so many hours in the day. we could only do so much, can't we? As much as we like to tell ourselves we can do it, we can do it all, we can absolutely do it all. 

So what I have done, so I'll just add to that. I have to share it because it's important. What I have done, which enables me to do more, is I have taken on a trainee choir leader who's working with me, not just on choir leading, but on other projects as well, who's recently given up primary school teaching and had a baby. And she was looking to, she's a good singer and she helps you with singing in her church. So she was really excited when I said, well, I think I might be, you know, maybe, you know, not do so much of that. She said, I want to help you. Can I help you? Could you train me? So actually, as long as you have the right sort of delegation and oversight in place, and we regularly speak every day and on making sure that she's got the right support to keep the quality up and do things well with my support. That's a way of growing, which I know we're talking about growing the business without... over committing myself so you know it's a it's a balance again because obviously there's investment of time in helping her get on up speed but I found that's a way of taking on more and also helping somebody else in the community develop skills in a different area for them. 

Yeah, And that's an important part of growth, isn't it? Reaching a point where you realise that if you want to grow more, if you want to have more impact, if you want to be able to help and support more people, that actually you can't do it all. And sometimes you've got to say, right, okay, where are my skills best at? Where is my time best spent? And what can I do to still be able to do that job? And that's normally when it's a team member or as you say, somebody to help and support. along with the choirs. But that is growth, isn't it? I think that is growth. But it's actually quite hard to do, isn't it? When it's your business and you've done it for so long, it's actually sometimes quite hard to say, somebody else come and do this little bit for me. So I love. 

That because there's so much in your head that you haven't written down because it's your own business. So we don't have a process manual for how do you teach a song, you know. Exactly. I do have a complete method, you know, so I've had to start, you know, sharing that knowledge over time and making sure that I don't assume too much, of my own knowledge that she would have the same. 

Exactly, And that's when I help and support a lot of businesses when they reach that point where they've grown and then they're thinking, well, why can't I physically grow anymore? And it's for that exact reason that they haven't got any more headspace, any more time, any more anything else. But actually they've built everything through with a wing and a prayer, string and sellotape, which is how we all build a business. And it's absolutely the way you should build a business, otherwise you'd never get started. but there becomes a point where you've got to start having some of these things like processes and, things documented and team members to do bits for you. It's the next level, isn't it, of growth. So I love that you're doing that for Maddie for music, which moves me on nicely to, I'd like to explore, if that's okay with you, Maddie, I'd like to explore what Maddie for music looks like. What's the dream? Where are you taking it next? 

So sticking with the core, I think, but I'm always coming up with ideas, which, as we were saying, we shouldn't necessarily take every idea forward. And it's definitely all about well-being. We are going to be relaunching the choir, and now that I've given up... working full time in my corporate world, I'm able to be more flexible about when we meet. So at the moment we meet on a Friday early evening, well that actually puts a cap on the number of people that will join because it's early evening, workers typically want to go and eat or pick up their children or whatever. Relaunching it at the beginning of March on a Tuesday evening, which is really scary because many of the people are saying they're a bit older now, they don't want to come out in the evening. We're going to also set up a daytime branch. So I feel scared because it's a difficult period and I may lose some people because some people may not get to make that daytime branch inevitably. And I've been with these people, some of them 13, 14 years, you know, it's like a family to me. So it is scary, but I absolutely know it has to be done to keep Maddie for Music viable going forward and to grow and to continue to do a good job in the community. So that's the biggest thing really that's happening now for me. then it'll be continuing to offer workshops and particularly at the moment in Beat the Blues January and February we're offering a series of workshops and so it's doing more of the same but I particularly thought it was good at this time of year. Those people who perhaps have never been in a choir, haven't sung since school, were told they couldn't sing. It's a small group environment, less daunting than going into an existing choir. Everyone knows each other. And so I've got about age 12 people once a week and we're doing quite gentle songs and things. So, and some rounds and some warm-ups. It's not high pressure, it's not high, it's not really upbeat and disco and all this, which we can be in choir. And people are appreciating that where they were a bit tentative, I don't know if I could sing or you don't want me, I can't sing. These are the sort of comments I get. So continue with that, continue to expand the care home pool that's really cemented in 2025 with the new act that I was saying that I've brought on board. And even now the activities organisers of the various homes having a group of their own, which I'm sort of moderating, saying, oh, I'm thinking, what should I do for Valentine's and they're actually talking to each other now. necessarily all the time just about my acts, but about their jobs and, you know, the challenges of doing that job in their home. So I'm not getting involved in those discussions, but I feel that going forward, you know, into the future, that would be something that I'm facilitating and helping those people that are doing those very difficult jobs, a network themselves. And then it'll be. just continuing to look for good opportunities to do fun things. So we go to festivals, we sing at Trafalgar Square. But in order to continue to do that, I've got to grow the choir because I've got about 20 people. paid up members at the moment on this Friday evening and it dipped a little bit in the last couple of months. People are getting older, people have got relatives that are ill, that have died or various reasons as they do, people have dropped off. So I need to rebuild in the next three months and then in the summer sort of think, is this a service that the community really wants? There are a number of choirs in deal. locally, national chains of choirs. And so I need to make sure that they're coming for me, because that's what they say. They come for me, the choir leader, because they like me and what I do and the style of choir that I run. So I need to work hard to make that sustainable in the coming months. 

Yeah, Are you seeing the younger generation showing an interest in choirs and things like that? Is it moving with the times, so to speak? 

I'm trying to do that. I keep us very young by doing things that perhaps other choirs of ladies who are in their 70s and 80s wouldn't. So one of the photographers that I use locally, he calls us the red hot babes or something, the choir bags, which is really nice. He just came up with it because he sees that it is an older group, plus 50, over 50 at least. I don't think anyone's under 50 apart from the lady that I'm saying is helping me to just have the baby. And so and even I'm not being ageist in that, but I'm just saying, as you said, to keep it, keep it moving, we do need to recruit younger people and they all get that, you know, all the existing members as well. They totally understand why I'm making this change to, you know, Tuesday evening. So yes, young people are interested, but they do want to be with people of varied age ranges. So I need to make sure that I do. meet you know we do meet at a time when they can easily easily make it but I would say from my side I'm quite a young 62 and everyone tells me I am so I'm always you know going to training courses with 25 year olds and and I see that as a real priority for me to mix with with different ages so I've joined a choir um for my own challenge um which is different style of singing acapella singing and auditioned choir um and There are about 10 of us that are probably in my age group, but about 60 who are 20s to 40s and 50s. And I love that because, you know, I've taken a lady along last night and she's joined and she's in her 30s and, you know, we can learn so much from the younger generation and they can learn from us as well. So I think it's really important to be, you know, intergenerational, to be in that sort of environment. And so I'm hoping that I'm like that anyway, my approach has always been, keep young and lively and dynamic. I'm hoping that will attract younger people going forward when we meet at a time when they want to come and sing with us. 

Amazing, amazing. So it sounds like there's some really exciting things ahead for yourself and of course, Maddie, for music. So we're going to need to start thinking about wrapping up, unfortunately, although we could obviously sit and chat all day. But before we do, I always ask my guests to share with us a top tip for all of our listeners based on your expertise. So what would your top tip be? 

I think my top tip has got to be in planning ahead. So in the music business especially, there's a lot of spontaneity and it's about improvising and it's about being creative and expressive. But without planning to do all those things, it's easy to miss deadlines or not do things to a high standard. So because I'm an administrator in effect is in the governance world and there's a lot of administration, a lot of organisation, project management. I am really a stickler for documenting everything that I've got to do, breaking those things down into stages. So, you know, if I'm thinking of this concert that I'm going to be doing with another visiting choir, I've already know got a checklist of all the things that we need to think about the venue what we're going to see the logistics of them coming to to to deal um so I think a top tip would be to keep on top of that and look at those things you know on a regular basis daily if not weekly as to what you've coming got coming up I've got a a Sunday afternoon sort of process in my life, where I look at the week ahead and think, is there anything I've missed that I haven't documented that I've got to do? And then breaking those down into smaller steps, because otherwise it feels daunting. But because of what I do, I'm sure it's true in many businesses, is across a number of streams, work streams. I have to really know exactly what I'm doing when, and I have to stick with that. The family can't go to me. Oh, are you coming out? I says, what? It's afternoon. I've got to do this, this and this, because otherwise, if I just, I mean, obviously I can be flexible to some extent, but if I don't. honour my own commitments to myself and to my business, then I'll get out of control and up very late or getting up very early, which is never very good for me. I won't be at my best when I'm then working and doing things for other people. 

Absolutely love that. It's really important not to break promises to ourselves and commitments that we make, isn't it? I think that it tells us that it's okay to keep doing that if we do. So I absolutely love that tip. Love that tip. So and then finally, if our listeners, or should I say if, I'm not going to say if, I say when our listeners want to come and learn more about you and Maddie for music, where's the best place for them to come and find you? 

Well, I tend to use my Facebook page, Maddie for Music, you know, with the number four, Maddie, M-A-D-E-I-E, and my husband came up with that, really a title for the business. I tend to use the Facebook page and a little bit on Instagram as well. So you can message me there, follow the page. And I should say that although I'm based in East Kent, I'm very mobile. So I was recently at your growth event and I do travel around a lot. I love travel, so overseas as well, you know, the cruise choirs, So I'm up for doing a workshop anywhere that fits my passion and my mission. So don't be put off that I appear to be just in the southeast. I love meeting new people and bringing what I can do to different areas of country. 

Amazing. Amazing. So thank you so much for joining me. I've absolutely loved our conversation. I hope you've had fun. 

Yeah, absolutely. It's really good to talk about myself. 

We don't do that very often, do we? don't do that very often. And it's nice to actually just do that bit where you reflect and you think about what you get out of it as well, because that is important. That is really, really important. Okay, so thank you to everybody else for listening. We will see you next time.