E93: How to Build a Scalable Business That Supports Your Life with Toni Addinall

What really happens when your business starts to grow and suddenly everything feels harder?

In this episode of Dream Business, Dream Life, Emma is joined by Toni Addinall, strategic partner for scaling service-based founders, to talk about what it actually takes to scale a business without sacrificing your time, energy, or life.

They explore why so many business owners resist structure and systems, how over complication creates overwhelm, and why scaling isn’t about doing more it’s about doing the right things in the right order.

If your business feels held together by “string and sellotape”, this conversation will bring clarity, relief, and practical insight.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

• Why systems and processes aren’t “corporate red tape”...they’re freedom
• The biggest mistake business owners make when they start scaling
• Why hiring a VA isn’t always the right first step
• How over complication keeps business owners stuck
• What “slow down to speed up” really means in practice
• The difference between tech systems and actual systems
• How reflection and data drive sustainable growth
• What support growing business owners really need and when

Who is Toni?

Hey, I’m Toni Addinall, a Strategic Partner for scaling service-based founders.

After a 24-year long career in corporate and small business, where I managed projects, led teams, coached & developed managers & leaders and implemented change, I walked away to build a business of my own.

Today, I work alongside founders whose businesses are successful and growing but still rely too heavily on them to hold everything together. I step in as their right-hand support to bring systems and structure to support the growth: clear priorities, repeatable processes, and consistent follow-through.

Find Toni on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/toniaddinallstrategist/

Want to connect? Find me here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamemmahine

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-hine

Website:  https://www.emmahine.co.uk

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaHineStrategy

Transcript

I'm Tony Addinall, a strategic partner for scaling service-based founders. The founders I support are visionaries. They have big ideas, they work at a fast pace, they're always moving forward. And that's exactly why they need someone who can bring structure behind the scenes. I help turn ideas into execution by building clear priorities, repeatable processes and the systems that allow the business to scale, without it relying on them to hold it all together themselves. If you're a founder who knows what you want, but you need the right-hand support to make it happen consistently, let's start the way all great relationships do, with a conversation. You can find me on Instagram or LinkedIn. 

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Dream Business, Dream Life. Today I'm joined by Addinall and I'm really looking forward to today's conversation because we both have the same mission of supporting business owners who want to scale their business but don't want it to take over their lives. Hi Tony, thank you for joining me. How are you? 

Very well, Emma. I'm A tad cold, but other than that, I'm very excited to be here with you today. Thank you for having me on. 

My absolute pleasure. I think it's welcome to the UK, isn't it? I'd say in winter, but I don't know. Did we get a summer these days? 

I think last year wasn't too bad. 

Wasn't it? I don't know. Perhaps my expectations of summer are too high, maybe. 

You were also in Spain for a lot of it, I remember. 

That's true. I did. I spent my spring in Spain, then came back here for summer. So my spring was probably better than my summer. Anyway, we digress. We absolutely digress. I know, and we haven't even said hello yet. Okay, let's stop digressing. Let's dive in. So let's start by you telling your listeners all about you and what you do now. 

Okay, so I'll start with the, I'll start with the tagline and then fill in the gaps afterwards. So I'm Tony Adinall and I'm a strategic partner for scaling service based founders, which basically means that I work with founders who are in that scaling space where They're probably transitioning from doing everything themselves to starting to think about needing other people to come in and support. And I like to come in and do the stuff that many visionary founders don't like to do. So the processes, the systems, the structures, the accountability, the project plans. I love a project plan. all of the things like that to get really clear on what we do, how we do it, have the priorities and map out that structure to achieving their goal. That's the bit I love to do. So supporting those founders who have got the big ideas, they want to move quickly, they want to the latest idea they want to bring in straight away. And I like to be the calm person in that conversation. Is that aligned to the goals that you want to achieve? Is that where we're going in this 90 days? If it is, great, let's do it. Let's make it happen. If it isn't, does that mean that that's now a priority over something else? So really being that voice, that sounding board that often when we start our business, we don't have. Whereas if we've worked in corporate or had previous roles in small businesses, there's always teams of people. There's people to talk about, there's people to support, there's people who we can delegate things to. And I don't think that that should be any different when it comes to business anymore. It's just about finding the right person that fits with your business and that can work together to help you achieve what it is that you want to achieve. 

And I absolutely could not agree more, as I know you already know that is the case, that I'm going to sit here and nodding away, smiling away. Because I think it's important, yet it's the thing, as you said right at the beginning, that so many business owners think, oh. I don't need to do that. That's for the big boys. That's for the corporates. That's for the people who've got big, big businesses that need to have, you know, they need to have structure and processes and all of those things that sound pretty boring, don't they? If we're completely honest, they sound pretty boring. 

Yeah, they are. 

And I with you, I don't find them boring either. But I know most people, the things that they find pretty boring, so they think, I don't need them. I don't need them. Yeah. 

But there's a reason that they exist. 

Absolutely. And what? That was one of my biggest learnings in my previous business. I'd come out of corporate with all of the processes and this you have to follow and that you have to follow and this and this and the other. And I was like, I don't want any of that red tape. I'm going to just run my business and do what I want and da, da, da, da. And we know what happened with that business. You know, we needed to have processes, we needed to have structure, we needed to have job roles, we needed to have all of those things. But I ignored that for a long, time. So I absolutely get it. I needed a you back then. Even though I was capable of doing it myself, we don't always do it for ourselves, do we? 

Absolutely not. 

We absolutely don't. So let's take us back a little bit and what got you to this point of realising this is what you needed to help people with? 

Oh, how far back do you want to go, Emma? Because it's a long, it's a long story. 

As far as you think's relevant. 

Okay, so I'm going to go back to school with a very quick story. Okay. That at school, and I didn't realize this until I'd reflected on it, but on exam morning, when you stood outside waiting to go in with your pencil and your ruler in your hand, I've never felt more calm and looking forward to things. Like I looked forward to exams and I wondered why that was. And part of the reason was because when you're in that exam room and you're sat there, there is nothing more that you can do. Like you're fully present in that moment. And everything that you've done up until that time is everything that you can do. So there's no point worrying. And for me, I've always had that plan in the structure. So fast forward to university, what I realized was that when it came to exams, when it came to assignments, I was never a deadline dancer. I never did an all-nighter at university. It was always structured. There was always a process. I knew a deadline, and it was always building up to that deadline. And then what I absolutely love with exams, with assignments, with anything, is that right at the beginning, you've got no idea what it's going to look like. You read the title of an assignment, and you think, how am I going to write 1,500 words on that? And then however many weeks later, you've written 1,500 words. And that feeling that you get of that satisfaction of I've achieved that, and then you hand it in. And at that point, same as an exam, there's nothing more you can do in that. There's just a peace and an acceptance and a moment in time when you can just look back and you can think, right, okay, I did that. I went from a blank sheet of paper to 1,500 words. And I love that sense of achievement. So that's always been ingrained in me, this goal, this sense of achievement. And I think whenever I look back, there's just my natural way is thinking about a plan, thinking about a process. Like everything in my mind is broken down into steps. And then that led me into a project management career, right at the beginning of my career, which I absolutely loved. And then that transformed into learning and development. And this is this is the time of my career that I think has really probably shaped where I am now. because I was part of a brand new team that had been put together to implement this new way of working that the bank had brought in. So they'd brought in these consultants, they'd created a whole new way of working. They'd given all of the managers these whiteboards and processes and problems and countermeasures and all of these things to do. And then they'd left them. And whilst those consultants were there, the managers knew what they were doing. But when they left, they were like, well, I don't know why I'm doing this. I don't know how that works. And so our team, which we grew considerably over the next couple of years, came in to help those managers find improvements, manage their people better, deliver the results, because ultimately it's about delivering the performance and the KPIs within the business. And I absolutely loved it. And one of the things that I recognized was that we had a significant number of managers who had never been taught how to manage people, who had never been taught how to plan and prioritize. And I don't necessarily think we can manage time, but let's just say in terms of manage their time. And they had no idea how to identify a problem and how to solve a problem. And the more of the programs that we delivered, the more I came across, well, why aren't these people being taught anything? And so fast forward to now, that problem still exists. So this was 19 years ago, and that problem still exists now. There are still managers that are being promoted because they're very good at what they do, but they have no idea how to manage people. Why would they? Because who's taught them. And then I've seen that in the business world when I went self-employed and start engaging and getting to know people in the business world, it's very, very similar. There's many people that have started their business because it was something that they love doing and they want to do the thing that they love. But then there's so much that goes around that they don't know. And so for me, all of those things come together. It's the things that I do naturally, the things that I love to do, and the things that when I look back on my 24 years experience, I've got so much experience, so many skills, and so much of that that I can bring to help founders who are in that position of just about to get to that next stage of business where they need continuous improvement, where they need processes to standardize things so that they know what's working, where they need to start supporting team members, either bringing people in permanently as a team or managing freelancers. And that's something that I can support with. And not only can I do it, it's actually what I've realized I love doing. 

Which is so important, isn't it? It's so important to enjoy what you're doing. The more you enjoy it, the better you are at it, and the more money you make. It's my honest opinion, my absolute honest opinion. So, when you transitioned from... doing what you're doing now in corporate, to doing it for yourself, what would you say were the biggest hurdles for you in terms of how different that is? Because we've already spoken about how different it is when you've suddenly got to, you know, you're the social media manager, you're the marketer, you're the systems person, you're the everything, aren't you? How did you personally find that transition? 

Hard. And if I'm honest, and I still, there were parts of it that I still really struggle with now. So, as we've mentioned, sort of the bits that you love, they're the bits that you will focus on doing and then in my roles, I've always been, I had a fantastic career, bar a couple of years and bar a couple of people, I I had a great experience. I didn't experience burnout. I was treated well. I had a fabulous balance that allowed me to bring my son up in the way that I wanted to. I was, what I'm learning to understand was one of the lucky, fortunate ones, because I'm seeing that that isn't something that many people experience in the corporate world. But I did work at half of it in small business as well. So in those roles, I was always doing what I was strong at and what I could do well. And I actually, I was reflecting on this morning. I was in a call in my mastermind, which is one of the things that has really helped me being part of a mastermind. But I reflected on whenever I started a new role, I became very good and very successful in that role very quickly. And that's not what I've experienced when I've transitioned into starting my own business. It has taken and is taking a lot longer than I ever thought, wanted, expected it to. 

Yeah. 

That time piece has been difficult for me. 

Yeah, it's a patience thing, isn't it? You know, you've got to be patient, you've got to wait for the right thing to happen. And do you think any of that is possibly because you were trying to not do some of the things that you know also, like I spoke about my business, that you were trying to, I don't need to do that, so I'll just do this. I talk about string and sellotape when you're building a business. We all do that. And I think we need to do that to a certain extent, otherwise we'd never get started, would we? You know, if we wait till perfect. Or do you think that's part of what has perhaps made it more difficult for you? Now you look back and reflect, because hindsight is a really, really great thing, isn't it? 

Really is, and you have to be really careful with it, because you can use it like a stick to beat yourself over the head with, rather than use it to learn and take the lessons and move forward with. Absolutely. There are things that, so my inbox, I'll be totally honest, is an absolute disaster zone because just before I left, my inbox had started to kind of rule my day-to-day in my job and like, and now I'm sort of fighting against that. It's like, no, I don't want to deal with, I don't want to deal with e-mail. And that's still there and that's something that I need to get better about. But it is hard when you're doing it on your own. I've, I, the other reason of being in partnership with founders, which is what. I really want to do. I don't want to come in, do something, leave. I want to build a relationship. And part of that is because the relationships that I've built with people in the jobs that I've had has made a huge difference. And so you can draw on people and you can sense check things and you can run things through with them. And also I've always had people that I can delegate the things that I don't do very well and know that I don't do very well to other people. And so I don't have that at the moment. in my business. And so then what normally happens, and I see very often is those things that you don't enjoy or don't do very well. They're the bits that you procrastinate on or that you you do. But then you think, oh, that's not good enough. So then you go through that cycle of self-doubt. So yeah, I absolutely see all of that, sort of how that's all played out since I started. And I think that's another reason that I just thought, no, this is how I want to support because then I can bring all of that good stuff in because I know that it's not just me that feels that way. 

Absolutely not, absolutely not. And I think it's really important, isn't it, if we as business owners have learned something along the way, that we can turn that into learning for other people. So they perhaps don't have to experience it at the level of depth, perhaps you did, because you were learning, now you can help them to guide different ways and do things differently that will make their experience a little bit better. One of the things that I see a lot with my clients, and I'd be interested to see if this is something you come across too with your clients, is that a lot of people feel stuck, not because they They don't know what they should be doing. They just don't know how to do it. They've overcomplicated things. You know, they've got too many offers, too many systems that are stacked on top of one another. They've got bits of processes, but not consistent processes. So they've overcomplicated everything. So I find that's why a lot of my clients seem to be stuck. Would you say that that's what you're experiencing too? 

Just too, just too much, just too much. There's one of my clients that I've worked with, and she'll sit and she'll pick up all of these post it notes. And that will be her plan, that will be her priorities, that will be the things that she's got that she's got to do. And I mean, even like picking up and visualizing loads of post-it notes, it's chaotic. And then that makes it very difficult to know where to focus. And she's got a really clear focus, a really clear idea of where she needs to be. But all of that, all of the post-it note chaos then just clouds it. So the path is clear. But it's clouded and completely foggy because some of the other things aren't aligned. And we all want to do everything all at once, going back to the patients thing. Like we want things to happen straight away and be successful straight away. So we think, oh, that's the priority. No, that's the priority. Oh, I need to do that first. I need to do that first. Rather than that pausing and that thinking piece around, okay, what do we need to do first? Like, and in project management, we talk about milestones. Like what are the milestones that we absolutely need to hit at what point in order for this project to be successful? And many people, particularly sort of the visionary founders, the people that love the ideas and just come in, the time, the plan that's not thought of, it's like, let's just make it happen. Okay, let's just slow it. slow it down a bit. And I'm not here to stop people and to slow them down in terms of the results that they're getting, but in terms of slowing down in order to speed up, because exactly of what you've just said there, the steps, the stages, It's quite, it's necessary in order to move, to move forward. 

Absolutely. Slow down to speed up. That's one of my favorite ever quotes. I use that all of the time and it's super important to do, isn't it? But I think it's something that. people because of this patience thing that we're going to come back to, this need and desire to do everything. And I think entrepreneurs are quite visionary, aren't they? have ideas, ideas, things that they could do, things that they can do, things that they can do. But actually, where you come in terms of being a partner within their business is to actually make that all make sense, isn't it? So it's not going to slow them down in terms of the end result. It just means pause for a second today so we can actually get rid of all of the noise, the things that you don't actually need to do to get you to the point you want to get to. 

Absolutely. 

Yeah, and I think that's really important, isn't it? Do you find that your, not your clients, because obviously they've become your clients, but do you find that people, business owners, entrepreneurs in general, find it difficult to ask for support? 

Yes is my gut reaction. And obviously, it's very difficult to speak for other people, so I'll speak for myself here. When I started my business, that was one of those shoulds, you know, those lovely shoulds that caused us so much trouble. That was my should. It's like, well, if you're starting this business, you should be able to do everything yourself. So you now have to learn how to do everything yourself. And I think for a long time I didn't question that because there's just so much going on. But actually when you sit back and you question it, it's like, well... No, why? Why? Why should I? And that's the that's the first question. It's like, why should I? And then it's well, is that reasonable? No, it's, it's not. Um, and I believe that anybody is capable of doing anything. And I think necessity means that you end up learning, you learn very quickly and you probably can do things. And I think that's where the friction comes from. Because in the beginning, we think that we should. Some people may have to in terms of the resources and what's available to them at the time. So then they learn very quickly through necessity. And then they get to the point of, actually, I've now proven to myself that I can learn to do it. So now I need to continue to do it. There's no need bringing somebody else in. And actually, nobody can do it as well as I can. And nobody will do it in the way that I would. So it's probably best that I don't bring somebody in and I just continue to do it myself anyway. 

Yes. And I think we've probably all been there to a certain extent, haven't we, in businesses that, it's because we're comfortable, isn't it? We know our way of doing it. We know how it works. We know we can make it, you know, cross it over the line. You've got to put your trust and confidence in somebody else. But you said something. way, way back earlier on in this conversation about, we're not the expert at everything. We can't know everything. we are brilliant at what we do, but what we do is only going to be one part of actually running a complete business, isn't it? 

Yeah. 

Absolutely is. So what would you say to, if we've got some people listening to this who are perhaps sitting at this point at the moment where they've built the business, the business is doing its thing, it's working, business owners sitting there thinking, you know, I've got all of these things to do, but they want to scale, they want more, they don't want to say, this is it, I'm where I need to be. What do you think those business owners need to hear right now? 

That they don't need to do it all themselves? that there are people that can support them. And that actually the honest part of it is that it's going probably to take more time than you would like it to, to get it to where it needs to be in order for you to move on. And what I mean by that is actually sitting and thinking, because I think one of the other things that I've seen is that the natural first assumption from many business owners is that when they get busy, the first thing they need is a VA. And actually sitting and really thinking about, well, what's what do I need? What is the first level of support that I need in my business? Because it may not, it might be, but it may not be a VA. It may be that if you're growing that element, then actually you need somebody to help you support with lead generation. Because lead generation is what you're going to need to grow your business, but actually you either don't like lead generation or you're not very good at lead generation, or there's simply that time constraint because you're doing the delivery, as well as doing the lead generation, you want to be growing and doing more. So where are you going to give up your time? So I think there's a real, there's a real moment of pause to think, well, actually, first of all, what does that look like for me in terms of the business scaling? And secondly, what support do I need? And I think sometimes when we think about delegating and bringing other people into support, Often we can give away things and then we can realize the things that we've given away, the things that we enjoy doing, and then we lose a little bit of the joy in our business. And that's again, not what it's about. So it's this balance of what you're good at, what do you enjoy doing and what do you need to get to that next level? And that takes time. And I don't think enough of us, and I will put myself into this as well, I don't think enough of us pause. to reflect, to think. I think there's a, there's a big bit of the sort of the long term vision and the goals and we know where we want to get to, but actually that pausing and thinking, where are we now and what's our next step? We're always looking 10 steps ahead rather than okay, what's the, what's the next step? And it's getting really, really clear on what that, on what that looks like. And I think a key part of that coming back to processes as well is if you can't clearly articulate to somebody how something works in your business, then whoever you bring in to do anything is going to take you a lot of time and probably a lot of frustration. Because when you try and communicate something that's in your head, a process, for example, to somebody else, that can be very, very difficult because you can be explaining it and then you go, oh, hang on a minute. Oh, before I do that, I do this. And it just gets really complicated. So you think you've communicated it, but the person that you've communicated it to, they've heard what they've heard. Then they deliver it, and then you think, oh, hang on a minute. They've not done it the way that I wanted them to. They've not done it the way that I've told them to. This isn't working. I'm just going to do it myself. Whereas what actually happened was you weren't clear on that process yourself either, because you've held it all in your head. 

Absolutely. And I've experienced that too. I think I've done all of these things, all of these things and then some. But that's part of growing, isn't it? That's part of growing into a business and actually understanding, you know, what you need to do, when you need to do it and how you need to do it. And as you say, you can't do everything on day one. You physically can't. your first priority when you launch that business is to just to get it out there, isn't it? To actually just get people to see who you are and what you do and how you can help them. And then to build upon that. What stage do you think, you obviously help people to scale. What stage do you consider them where they are ready to scale? 

So I think that is a very interesting question in terms of it could look like different things to different people. I think if they're at the point where in order to achieve the goals that they've set themselves, it's no longer something that they can do themselves, then that's the time to start thinking a little bit differently. Does that make sense? 

Yeah, no, it does. It does. And I think that's important, isn't it? I think there's a lot of noise out there, isn't there, in terms of, you know, what stage of business is what, in terms of, you know, if you're earning 5K months, if you're earning 10K months, if you're earning 20K months, you know, I think there's a lot of expectation around what that looks like. You know, I know business owners who are multi-six, seven-figure business owners, they've got no structure in the business. You know, it's all held together by string and sellotape, and if they tried to do more, they would probably fall apart quite quickly. I was one of those business owners. I was a seven finger business owner with absolutely no structure in place, which took me a long time to be able to say that out loud because how embarrassing. I'm A strategist and I've got a business with no strategy, just winging a prayer. It wasn't intentional that I built it that way. It's just how it happened because you have a problem. You're so busy. You solve the problem. 

Yep. 

You move on a little bit. Another problem crops up. Right, okay, I'll solve this problem, but you're solving it on top of something that was already a solved problem. So your foundations are super, super wobbly. So I think you can get your business to a really good level financially before you actually realize that, you know, your foundations aren't stable. So for me, And that's why I wanted to ask you the question. For me, I think, yes, scaling is when you're ready to do the next big thing, isn't it? But actually, in terms of getting your foundations in place, nothing's stopping you doing that right from the beginning. I know most won't, and I understand that, but there's nothing stopping you doing that if you're that way inclined, is there? 

Absolutely. And that's the best time to do it, because otherwise you have to unpick it all. Like you said, a problem on top of a problem on top of a problem. But we don't think about that. until we get to the point of need. I think that's just be it partly simply being human and partly because I imagine there's many people that started a business and it grew. quicker than they thought or bigger than they thought, or they never quite imagined getting it to where it was. And it was just a case of, oh, it's just happened, going back to the reflection piece, because it's just, oh, hang on a minute, I'm already there. So I think it's difficult to put a number in terms of sort of scaling when you get to six figures on it, because it depends what that looks like, because you could be bringing in six figures and Although everything's going through you, you can kind of manage it. I think it depends, it depends on the, it depends on the business. It depends what that looks like. If it is something that you're doing, that is that exchange for time for money position, then to grow, obviously you need more time and you can't create more time. So that might then be bringing on somebody else to do it. And so that's a different choice and a different I guess, option for the business to grow. And it's sometimes it's just having those questions and asking yourself those questions as well. And do you want it? And what does it look like? Rather than thinking, oh, well, I've got to this point now. So I need to build a team or I need to build an agency or I need to get freelancers in. Well, do you want it to start with is a great place. And if you're at that point where you're doing all of that, all of the delivery and you're loving all of the delivery, you want to stay doing the delivery yourself and stay sort of as one person in the business. You don't want to bring in a team, but actually you could probably create more time for doing the things you love by having just somebody support with some of those other things and putting some of those processes in place. So it depends what people... Well, it will always depend, won't it, on the goal and what it is that you want to work on. But we don't take that time to think. And I think often we see what other people are doing and we see, okay, so a successful business means you get to six, seven figures and then you have a team of people. Okay, so I'm gonna bring in a team of people. Okay, now we've brought in people, now what does that mean, hang on a minute, now they're doing all the things that I enjoy doing This isn't fun. And now I'm managing people. I don't like this. So it's those it's those answers. It's knowing what's right for your for your business and where you are. And that's OK to change as well. Because what you want, what you want now might be very different to what you want in six months time. And then in six months time, you may change your mind again. And that's OK, isn't it? That's OK. That's OK. But have the foundation that you can that you can flex. that you can flex from. 

Yeah, and I think that's when you start to build a business that doesn't sacrifice your life, isn't it? When you've got some flexibility in your structure and your systems and things that are there. And even if your decision is to, you want to be a solopreneur and you want to be the only person within your business in terms of doing the do, and for some people that absolutely does work and they can still make a considerable amount of money doing that, depends on, as you say, what your business does, doesn't it, and how it delivers that? There is still structure and there is still processes and things that you need to have in place, isn't there, to make sure that what you do is consistent. So you want to make sure that every client has the same experience when they work with you. So it's looking at things like your onboarding process, isn't it? And so even if it's just you within your business, that doesn't mean that you still don't need some sort of structure that sits there. 

Absolutely not. And that's a really good example in terms of consistency in client experience. I think that's a huge thing, onboarding and offboarding. But then all of the sort of the backend, back office stuff that happens as well with the processes, if every time you're doing something, so setting up setting up a new contract or terms and conditions or setting up a new sales page or anything that you do for a new offer. If every time you have to think through the process of doing that, that's taking time and energy. And we all know sort of how decision fatigue can impact you when you're running a business because that's what you're doing. You said it earlier in terms of your problem solving, you're making decisions all day, every day. If you're adding into that mental load of of, okay, now I need to do this. And it feels like you're starting again. And even though in your mind, you know, overall what it is, you might do it slightly differently. And that slightly different element of it may have an impact. And it's so important for continuous improvement. Again, on the reflection side, if you do something five times and you want to improve it, And each time you do it slightly differently, how do you know which bit to improve? So if you've got a process and it's documented and you follow that each time, not only does that create sort of that mental space because there's none of that fatigue there because you don't have to think about it because it's like, right, okay, this, this, and this. But when you follow the this, this, this and this, which I know is not fun, but it's necessary sometimes, then you can identify what part of the process you need to focus on to improve. And then that helps you make decisions in your business about where to spend your money, where to spend your time, what you need to prioritise. If you don't know, you just can't, you can't improve. Like you can't manage what you can't measure. So if you can't measure it, you can't manage it and you can't improve it. And if you want to continually build, grow, or even maintain where you're at with your business, 'cause not everybody wants to grow. If you wanna maintain where you're at with your business, then that's really important because consistency, consistency is, It matters. It's critical. 

Absolutely. And I think that's a really point you point, a really important, I missed the word important out there. It's a really important point that you made there about, you know, maintaining a business. You can't assume because you've got a business to a certain point, be that financial or number of clients or how it works for you in your life, whatever your point is, that it will stay there if you just continue doing what you were doing in the way that you are doing it. So that's a really important point that you made there. Because even to just to remain consistent, you've got to be changing and moving and doing all of the things that you need to do. And that has to be to a certain element data-driven, doesn't it? Because that's factual, isn't it? 

Absolutely. You know, that is factual. 

Yeah. 

Otherwise, you work on emotion and you work on guesswork. 

We assume. 

We assume. Yeah, we assume. Yeah. And often our assumptions can be driven a little bit emotionally as well. And then we could then be changing things that actually didn't need to be changed in the 1st place, because that's not the bit that wasn't working. 

Exactly. And I think, we spoke right at the beginning about looking at things that are not working, not with a stick, not to beat yourself up and say, you're really bad at this, but actually to get a true opinion as to what's going well, what's not going so well, purely so you can make sure that you were tweaking and adapting and doing these things. And that in itself is a system A process, isn't it? doing a month end review. And I think this is, I think a lot of people, when we mention having systems in place, they straight away think tech. 

Yes. 

I need to have tech. So I don't do tech, so I don't do systems, whereas actually systems are everything that you do. It's just a word, isn't it? So all your processes, if you do something that is a system, It is a system, isn't it? So I think it's just important to just add that little point out on the end there. People are sitting here thinking, systems tech, don't do tech. 

I think it's a really important differentiation. And in today's world, then tech does or can come into it. And probably to use the word sort of the way that it should be used, should come into it. Because there are ways that we can use tech to make things easier. However, If you don't know what your process is, then you can't automate it. 

Exactly that. Whether it's something that's human driven or tech driven, it's still a system, isn't it? It's got to go through something. It's a system. It absolutely is a system. Okay. I think we've been chatting for ages. I love this conversation. I absolutely love this conversation. We're both so passionate about achieving the same thing for our clients, aren't we? You know, making sure that they are building these businesses that aren't going to take over the lives ultimately. So I could literally could have this conversation all day, but sadly we can't. So as we come towards the end of every episode, I always ask my guests to share with us a top tip. So what would your top tip be for our listeners? 

Oh, Which one to choose? I would say, take some time, build it in at a cadence that works for you, but to actually sit and reflect on what's working, what isn't. If you've got the data, use the data. If you've not got the data, start to think about how you can collect some data. And it doesn't have to be everything straight away. Think about what's the priority. We set goals, we set our strategy for the year, but actually really breaking that down and doing this each month, like the start of the month, what am I working towards? And then at the end of the month, really reflecting on how far have you moved towards it, what took you off track, What kept you on track? What propelled you forwards? What brought you back a few steps? Just take that time and reflect. The moment that you start looking at your business as much as possible with outside eyes, you start to see so, much more. 

Absolutely. Love that. One of my favourite top tips. One of my favourite top tips. Okay, so Tony, if our listeners want to come and learn more about you, where's the best place for them to come and find you? 

The best place right now would be Instagram and that's at Tony I don't know strategist. 

Perfect. Thank you for joining me. I hope you've had as much fun as I have. 

I certainly have and like you, I'm surprised at the time and could have continued talking all afternoon. 

Maybe we need to do episode #2. But for today, thank you for listening everybody. We will see you next time.