E100: What Happens After You Make Millions with Lisa Johnson

Welcome to a very special episode...the 100th episode of the podcast.

To mark this milestone,  I invited Lisa Johnson, to kick off this 5-part series exploring what success really means beyond income, status, and external validation.

Lisa went from debt to making over £20 million in six years. She built the life many entrepreneurs dream about...luxury, recognition, multi-seven figures, elite masterminds, global stages.

And yet…

She never truly felt successful.

In this honest and unfiltered conversation, we unpack:

• Why money didn’t bring the fulfilment she expected
• The emotional cost of rapid financial success
• The pressure of being seen as “the successful one”
• Why she chose to intentionally earn less
• How grief reshaped her definition of a life well lived
• The identity crisis no one talks about in entrepreneurship
• Why impact, not income, is the real scoreboard

This episode sets the foundation for the entire Success Beyond Money series.

Because what if success isn’t about how much you make...but how you feel?

Want to learn more about todays guest, Lisa Johnson?

Lisa Johnson is a globally recognised Brand Strategist, keynote speaker and Sunday Times Bestselling author who has built one of the UK’s most impactful personal brands in the online education space. 

Known for her bold honesty and no nonsense approach, Lisa has leveraged the power of brand led strategy to generate over $30 million in revenue in just seven years.

https://www.instagram.com/lisajohnsonstrategist

www.lisajohnson.com

About This Mini-Series: Success Beyond Money

This is Episode 1 of a 5-part series where I interview powerful business owners about what success really means once the money is there.

Over the next few episodes, we’ll explore:

• Identity beyond income
• The cost of ambition
• Time vs money
• Health, relationships & legacy
• What happens when you realise “more” isn’t the answer

If you’ve ever wondered:

• “Will I finally feel successful when I hit my next income goal?”
• “Why doesn’t this feel how I thought it would?”
• “Am I allowed to want something different?”

This series is for you.

Want to connect? Find me here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamemmahine

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-hine

Website:  https://www.emmahine.co.uk

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaHineStrategy

Transcript

Hello and welcome to The Simple Business Dream Life Podcast, the show for business owners who want to grow to six figures and beyond without their business taking over their life.

I’m Emma Hine, Business Growth Strategist, and I’m here to show you that building a successful business doesn’t have to mean constant hustle, overwhelm, or sacrificing the life you’re working so hard to create.

After building a seven-figure business that looked incredible on the outside but left me exhausted and burned out, I chose to start again, this time keeping things simple, focused, and sustainable.

On this podcast, I’ll share honest conversations, practical strategies, and real-life stories to help you simplify your business, grow profitably, and create a business that truly supports your dream life.

So if you’re ready to stop chasing someone else’s version of success and start building a business that works for you, let’s get started.

Hello and welcome to the 100th episode of my podcast, 100 episodes. Oh my God, I am so excited. But when I realized it was 100 episodes, there was only one person that I wanted to bring on. This person has been my mentor from the very first moment I actually went online and Googled, I need to make money without working as hard as I'm working right now. And we are, oh, Joe, we're five years down the line and Lisa is still my absolute go-to. So Hi Lisa, thank you so much for joining me. How are you? 

I'm so honoured to be your 100th episode. That is so cool. 

Exciting, exciting. Okay, as I always do, we're going to dive straight in because hey, why fluff it up? Why fluff it up? So let's go back a little bit and let's go back to life before you became a business owner. What would you say success meant to you back then? 

Before I became a business owner? If I thought about the word success, honestly, I think it meant money. I think if I looked at people that were successful, they had nice clothes, they went to nice places, they were driving nice cars. And I think I thought that was success in my naivety. 

And you know, I think most of us do, don't we? see that, you know, we see all of these things people have got and we think, that's when I've made it. 

That's when I've made it. If somebody was in a car, a really nice car, my friends would be like, oh, look at him in the car. I always thought, oh, that means he's successful because they don't like him. 

Yeah. 

So I had a really weird view on success because of money mindset and because I grew up in poverty, I guess. 

Yeah, and it does make a difference, doesn't it? So you went from being in debt to making a lot of money? 

Yeah, over 20 million in six years. 

Exactly, which is phenomenal, isn't it, in terms of money? Yeah. So when you reach that point, when you sit here now and you look back at your journey, which has been a roller coaster, I think it's fair to say, what would you say that you felt like at that point? So you are one of these people now who can have all of these things and stuff that you saw other people having. So how do you feel at that point? 

It took a while for my mindset to catch up with what was there. So even when I had, like my first million came quickly and even when it did, my mindset was still that I was poor. So I'd still think I couldn't have things for a long time because that money would just, surely that's just going to just disappear. I did, I've never, this is a really weird thing to say and it's going to make no sense to people, I've never felt successful. even at the highest point of when I was financially free. So when I had the most amount of money, when I had the best clothes, when I was going to the most expensive places, no part of me felt successful because I think success comes from within, but we don't know it. So yes, I felt like I was rich and that I had a lot of money to spare and that I was helping a lot of people make more money and all of those things were good. And don't get me wrong, I loved that life. I did some amazing things. I was able to treat my whole, all of my friends in one go to go on like yachts and things like that, things that I'd written in diaries when I was younger. Like imagine what it would be like if like it was an amazing lifestyle, but I didn't feel successful really because my version of success changed. Success became different, really slowly, but it became different. So, as soon as I was making lots of money, I was working a lot of hours. The more money I got, the more I was working. And so then it became about, oh, wouldn't success be nice if I had time? Suddenly time became success. And then when I got a bit of time, because I started doing passive income and that kind of stuff, then my health was suffering because of the trolling and all the stress online. And so it was like, God, real success is health. And at every point it changes because there's no such thing as having everything. There's always something that you're giving up to get something which will make you feel less successful unless it comes from within. Because there's a compromise to be made. People who have a lot of money don't do it in a very easy way. Like there's always going to be trolling or something like that. There's always going to be people wanting to knock you off a perch. That's just how life is. And so you're giving up something to get something always. And so I guess success, when I looked at people at the beginning that were successful, what I saw was a load of people with flashy cars and nice things. I didn't see the other side to what that meant for them. I just saw that and thought, oh, they have all of those things and they don't have to give up anything for it. And that simply isn't the case and no one tells you that to you in it. 

Yeah, and I think that's the key, isn't it? Nobody talks about the cost of success, if we want to use that word, but nobody talks about the cost of making a lot of money because you've got to give something up, haven't you? You've got to make a decision whether the money is the priority or the life is the priority or the time is the priority or the people is the priority. You have to pick up. 

And there's a phrase that people say, like, yeah, you can be poor, you can be rich, choose your heart. And I think people think that by saying choose your heart, like it's hard being poor, it's hard being rich, choose your heart, that they assume that being rich is a lot easier. But it depends what comes with it. Like my life was ultimately a lot easier when I hadn't even made six figures than it was when I made 20 million, easier. Well, I don't know whether I could say it was better because some great things come with opportunity of having money, but it was easier for sure. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that when you made a decision, a conscious decision to actually change things in your life, to enable you to move into what you now saw as success for you. Do you think that came with emotional baggage? And I say that because when I walked away from my business, which I didn't make as much money as you did, but it was a seven figure business. We were turning over excess for a million a year. I felt so guilty because I thought other people are going to think, well, who is she to say you've built what you wanted because everybody assumes it's what you want. Now you're walking away. 

I totally get that. 

It. 

Was more that what worried me is that I didn't want people to kind of look at me and go, oh yeah, it's all right for her to say that. because she's already made loads of money. And the reason I knew people would say that is because that's what I said. Someone once told me very early on, before I'd made the first million, be careful, because you will think that making all this money is going to make you happy and that all your problems are going to disappear. Careful not to follow a path so far that you can't find your way back again. And I said, it's right for you to say that because you've made money. You don't know what it's like. And he kind of looked at me and laughed, which is now what I do, because I get it. and you can't get it until you're there. You can't understand that actually it doesn't solve all your problems. It makes some things easier and it opens opportunities. And there are definitely good parts to having a lot of money, but it also brings you more problems than you had before in different ways. And those problems are core issues to do with you and your identity and resilience and what you can actually cope with and health and so many other things that are actually, when you look at it, more important than money. 

Absolutely. 

But it's hard to see that when you don't have money. 

Yeah, and I think that's a great point, isn't it? And I've certainly had that too, people have said, but you've made the money, so you know what it feels like to have the money, so it's easy for you to say. And I know when I started talking about this stuff back in, gosh, 2021, people looked at me like, you know, I've got something that shouldn't have. Even me, honestly, yeah. 

Even me, when you first said, you know, I had a seven-figure business, And I gave it up because I didn't want anymore. I was like, what a fool. Why would she do that? Like she was on this great trajectory forwards, but I was a couple of years behind where you were. 

Yeah, And I think that's. It is easy for us to say, isn't it, when we've been there and built the thing and then made that decision to do something differently. I think you get, you sort of get trapped in this version of success that you think everybody expects of you at that point, don't you? I think it becomes an expectation that, you know, Lisa's got to hear what's next. 

People said that to me all the time, like, when are you making eight figures? Because I got to 7 and then multi-seven and went to eight-figure mark. as if that is the only trajectory you are allowed to go in. And you also feel like if you make another decision to go, well, actually, I don't really need this much money. And my life would be a bit easier if there was a balance here. Some money, because I like money and I like to do things with it. I like nice things and I like to give it away. I want some, but not there's a balance. There's an edge of I don't need this much that comes with this many problems. I want to be somewhere in the middle. And for me, that was, I'd like to go back four years. That's where I knew I was at my happiest and the balance was perfectly right. And I don't want to be as visible as I am, if I'm honest. That comes with its own set of problems. And so I was like, okay, but now people are going to think I'm a failure. So that's the first thing you think, if I purposely start making less money, people are going to think, oh, she's failing now. It's not working. And I inspire a lot of people. And so if they think that, they might not try and get the lives they really want to have. And so that came with its own set of mindset *******. 

Yeah, everything seems to come with that, doesn't it? 

Yeah. And so I had to really think about that. And I realized that the only way to deal with it was to take my audience on the journey with me and to tell them, this is what I'm going to try and do in the next year. I'm doing this purposely. You will see me doing it. These are the decisions I'm making. And I took them on that journey from making, you know, $6 million a year to around four. And this year I'm doing the same again to take it down again to the level that I knew I was happiest at. And already it's helped with like, the success, even doing that kind of stuff has helped me because it's meant that I've had to deal with not caring about what people think of me and whether I'm a failure or whether I'm a success. That in itself has helped my life enormously because there's a lot of pressure on somebody to make a lot of money when they've already made a lot of money. So that's gone now because I can do what I want, no one really cares. It's helped with health because my time is being spent in different places and in different ways. I'm moving further away from some of the online space that I don't like and some of the crowds that I shouldn't be around. And that's helped mental health. So many things have helped. And success is surely being in a place where you feel good every day more than anything else. 

Exactly that. And I think it's okay for us to actually realise it's not what we had built. Because we didn't know back then. When we start building what we're building, we don't know. And quite often, you just end up building more because you can. 

And you evolve. Like you get to a point where you evolve. And I don't think it's an easy evolution. I think that people think you just get to this point where you go, oh, that's enough money now. Let's change things. It isn't. Like, it was like, I went through a year of like, it was quite traumatic to realize that all this work I'd put in to build this version of my life wasn't the version of my life that I actually wanted. And it had taken a lot to get there. And now I was saying, oh, I've made the wrong move. I need to get back a bit. This isn't what I want. And that was hard to contend with. 

Yeah, it is, isn't it? That really gets us, it gets us thinking because we're thinking what other people are going to be thinking. And I think that's the tough bit, isn't it? Was there something specific that happened that made you realise that the money on its own wasn't enough? Or was it just a gradual thing? 

No, it wasn't gradual. It was like 2 epiphanies. It was a two-step process. The first was in 2020, I think it was 2021 or 2022. I was with my friends and I was about to go to Necker. And I had got everybody's version of success by this point. I'd got the six figures, 7 figures, multi-seven figures. I'd got the... the book deal. I'd got, I hadn't got the book by then, but I'd got the book deal. I had got a number one podcast by then. I was on some of the biggest stages. I was being seen with some of the biggest multi-seven figure people. I was in a mastermind that was invite only. I'd done all the things and then I was invited to NECA and I was going to go. But I'd sat, I was sitting with my real friends from before this world. And they were talking about how it was one of their birthdays. And they were going to go to the Chinese restaurant in my old hometown where I grew up. And they were like, God, we're going to have to spend our $5.99 for our Chinese buffet, which is what we've always paid. And then they were like, oh, Lisa, you can't come. You're going to be on Necker Island playing tennis with Richard Branson. And it just hit me. I don't want to be there. I want to be there. I want to be at the buffet. I'll be having fun with my friends. I don't want to be around people that I didn't really respect. I didn't really like a lot of what they were putting out there. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors, a lot of lying. And I didn't feel comfortable with what some of those people were doing to their audiences and the manipulation tactics that I'd have to be around to be a NECA. And so I literally that day rang and said, I don't want to come. Me and Sam aren't coming. And they said, well, you'll still have to pay the 70,000 that you paid, so you may as well come. And I was like, no, you can keep the 70,000. Like, this is more important than that. And so I didn't go. So that was like the first step. That got me changing what I saw as success and what got me sitting down thinking, what is my version of success? Because I no longer even know anymore what my version is. And then In 2023, my best friend died. And that changed everything all over again because it took me on a different path. People were saying, oh, he lived such a well life. I'm actually doing a TEDx on this subject because people were saying he lived such a well, a good life. And I was like, did he? Like, he didn't have kids. He didn't have a wife. He hadn't traveled a lot. He hadn't made success in material terms. I was like, I thought this was a life well lived. And it kind of challenged my perception on what a life well lived is. And I spoke to a few people and they said, oh, he just left everybody in a better position than when you found them. And this played on my mind because I was like, I don't really believe that is what success is, just this one thing. And so I decided to challenge myself and give myself an experiment. I like to challenge myself. I've done it before with The Woo Diaries. And I was like, I will do an experiment where for a year I do something for someone, anything that leaves them in a better state than I found them. And I did. And some of that was financial, a lot of it wasn't. And it completely changed me and how I thought about what success really is because success is fulfillment and joy and actually you get that. by helping others and that's all. That's the only way you'll really get that, the proper deep feelings of that. And so then that changed me again. And those two things together were like, okay, I know the path I need to be on and it isn't this one. 

Yeah, yeah. And loss, you know, we both lost people very, very close to us in 2023. And I think it really does make you look at life So differently, doesn't it? makes you assess the people that you spend your time with. It makes you assess the way that you live, the things that you do, what is important. But what I also think, I mean, this is speaking for me personally, but I'm assuming you probably will feel the same, is it makes you realise that nothing will ever be as difficult as that. 

Yeah, you'll never go through anything as hard. And, people constantly say to me, I don't know how you deal with the amount of crap you get online. I don't know how you deal with having to show up even when people are trying to cancel you on time and all of those kind of things. It's not that hard, really. I've been through worse in life. That's not that hard. 

Yeah, and I think it's true, isn't it? does give you that. And it's sad that we have to reach that point, isn't it, before we actually start to realise? 

And also, whenever anyone's like really worried about anything big and they're like, oh, you know, this could ruin your life or this or this. And I just kind of look around and realize that everyone around me won't be here in 50 years. 

Like it's pretty scary, isn't it? 

They're not going to be, it's scary, but it's brilliant. No one that has anything to say about you will even exist in 50 years time. And therefore, why are we so worried about it? We have this tiny amount of time on this earth. And we need to do with it the things that bring us the most joy. Because nothing else really matters because it's so finite. 

Yeah, it is. You've only got today, haven't you? The only guarantee is the minute that you're looking right now. So what you were doing now. So you want to enjoy that. You want to absolutely enjoy that what you're doing. Would you say that as you've evolved that people around you have left your world? I experienced that. 

Definitely. So there were people that I've made millionaires who wanted nothing to do with me when I wasn't interested in any longer making people millionaires. They definitely disappeared. There were people that I was given quite a lot of opportunities to by having a giant audience and, you know, putting them in front of people and giving them opportunities that when I changed my trajectory, that wasn't really a possibility anymore because I wasn't growing a massive audience. They disappeared very quickly. People who were members of my team didn't like the trajectory that I was going in. they wanted to be seen as working for the person that earned all the money. So yeah, partnerships failed. Lots of things happened all for the good. 

Yeah. I think that in itself helps us to learn what we need in our lives, doesn't it? And you've spoke a lot about this has taken you back to the friends that actually matter and they're your OG crowd, your crowd that are having the Chinese takeaway for $5.99 in your local hometown. 

They didn't, they don't give a **** what I do. They don't care what I do. They don't care how much money I make. They don't care what opportunities there are for them or what they can have. They don't care. They liked me and loved me before that. And so they loved me after it and they keep me grounded anyway. I always did. And so they are what matters, not people that are in it for something or because of who you are. It works the other way as well. Some people that bullied me really early on online when I was making nothing came and apologized to me when I was making a lot. And even that is like, oh, OK, you've seen success, and so now I'm worthy of you apologizing to. And actually one of those people very recently, now I'm making, I'm not on that trajectory anymore, has started pulling me again. So it's like you can really see the pattern of where you are and what that means to other people and whether you are worth talking to, depending on how much money you have. And that's why it's really important to surround yourself with people that just don't care about that. 

Absolutely, absolutely. Would you say that the version of success that you're aiming for now, that the life that you're living now, is enabling you to be more the real Lisa? 

Yes. I mean, I was always the real me, but that got me in trouble before. Because I'm opinionated and I don't believe in cancel culture. I think that everyone should be allowed their opinions. And because of that, I say my opinions. And when you are of a certain level, when you're seen as a leader in the space, it does put a target on your back. You know, there could be 50 people that this happened this week, actually. There were 50 other people in this industry that said the exact same opinion as me, but I was the only one that got, you know, called out to be canceled. And that's because when you have a bigger audience or you're more successful or you have more money, you have a target on your back. And so, yeah, in that way, it's always going to be like that. It always is going to be like that. But now, like, if I go back to, if I keep going where I'm going to this version of success, then I can still be me, the same version of me that when I had 20 million, but hopefully the need to constantly look and challenge every move I make will go because there will be other people making more money than me out there and louder than me out there. So I'll be able to disappear a little bit. 

Hide away a little bit. Love that. I love that. So just a final closing question. So as you sit here today, you've changed your life considerably, haven't you, over the last couple of years, and you've probably been working on this much, much longer than that behind the scenes. So today, what would you say if money is no longer your main driver, your scoreboard, so to speak, what would you say is, what would you say is the driver, your version of success? 

I think success is threefold. I think it contains when you are generally content and at peace. I think that is what success feels like. When you can change things about the world in some way, even if it's people's opinions, like I am on a big, let's change this cancel culture thing. that's success, if I can go some way of changing how people think about that. And I think also if you can leave people in a different state to when you found them, then that as well is a version of success. So those three things. 

Absolutely. And I think we both agree that the more impact you have on all the people, probably the more money you make naturally, but doing it in a way that doesn't feel as hard work. 

Absolutely. Impact will always, you know, The more impact you do, the more money you make. Income flows. It's A byproduct of impact. It always has been in anything that anyone does in life. And I think some people have just forgotten that. And so they go, they chase the money. But actually, if they just think differently and chase the impact, the money will come. 

Love that. Love that. Lisa, I have absolutely loved chatting. Thank you so much for joining me on this 100th episode. 

Congratulations on 100 episodes. It's really hard to do 100 episodes. 

It really is. It really is. I absolutely love doing my podcast. It's just me and my own little world. I just come on unscripted, waffle, whatever comes out of my mouth comes out of my mouth and people seem to like it. So there you go. There you go. So thank you. We will see you next time. 

You’ve been listening to The Simple Business Dream Life Podcast with me, Emma Hine.

If today’s episode resonated and you’re ready to simplify your business so it truly supports your dream life, you can find out how to to work with me over at emmahine.co.uk.

Until next time, remember success doesn’t have to be complicated. You can grow a business that thrives and gives you the life you want.