E104: Leadership, Burnout & Life’s Unexpected Changes with Emma Last

In the final episode of this Success Beyond Money mini-series, I’m joined by informed leadership consultant Emma Last to explore what happens when the version of success you’ve worked towards no longer feels right.

Emma spent 19 years building a successful corporate career, rising into senior leadership and achieving the status, recognition, and material success many people associate with “making it”. But after years of pushing herself to meet those expectations, she reached a turning point that forced her to question everything she thought success meant.

In this honest conversation, Emma shares how burnout, identity shifts, motherhood, and a recent family health diagnosis have reshaped how she defines success today. Rather than chasing titles or external validation, her work now focuses on sustainable success, informed leadership, and mental health awareness in the workplace.

This episode is a powerful reminder that success isn’t a fixed destination. Sometimes it evolves through the challenges we never expected to face.

If you’ve ever questioned whether the version of success you’re chasing is really the right one for you, this conversation will resonate deeply.

In This Episode We Talk About

• What Emma believed success looked like when she was younger
• Building a 19-year corporate leadership career
• Why reaching the “top table” didn’t feel the way she expected
• The hidden pressure on women to be “superhuman” in leadership roles
• How burnout forced Emma to step back and rethink everything
• How becoming a business owner changed her relationship with success
• How a Parkinson’s diagnosis in her family reshaped her priorities
• Future-proofing a business and redefining security
• Why identity matters more than milestones when defining success

Want to learn more about today's guest, Emma Last?

Emma Last is a Leadership Consultant and Founder of the Informed Leadership Standards™. With over 25 years’ experience across leadership, coaching and wellbeing, she helps leaders build ethical, human-first organisations and achieve sustainable high performance without burnout.

https://www.facebook.com/emma.last.180 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-last-ils/ 

https://emmalast.com/informed-leadership-standards-home

About This Mini-Series: Success Beyond Money

This is Episode 5 of a 5-part series where I interview powerful business owners about what success really means once the money is there.

Over the next few episodes, we’ll explore:

• Identity beyond income
• The cost of ambition
• Time vs money
• Health, relationships & legacy
• What happens when you realise “more” isn’t the answer

If you’ve ever wondered:

• “Will I finally feel successful when I hit my next income goal?”
• “Why doesn’t this feel how I thought it would?”
• “Am I allowed to want something different?”

This series is for you.

Want to connect? Find me here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamemmahine

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-hine

Website:  https://www.emmahine.co.uk

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaHineStrategy

Transcript

Hello and welcome to The Simple Business Dream Life Podcast, the show for business owners who want to grow to six figures and beyond without their business taking over their life.

I’m Emma Hine, Business Growth Strategist, and I’m here to show you that building a successful business doesn’t have to mean constant hustle, overwhelm, or sacrificing the life you’re working so hard to create.

After building a seven-figure business that looked incredible on the outside but left me exhausted and burned out, I chose to start again, this time keeping things simple, focused, and sustainable.

On this podcast, I’ll share honest conversations, practical strategies, and real-life stories to help you simplify your business, grow profitably, and create a business that truly supports your dream life.

So if you’re ready to stop chasing someone else’s version of success and start building a business that works for you, let’s get started.

Hello and welcome to another one of our mini-series episodes where we are exploring what success really means and why we have to sometimes change what that version of success looks like. So today I am super excited. I am joined by Emma Last, who is an informed leadership consultant. Emma, hello. Thank you for joining me. 

Thank you for having me. I can't wait to to talk all about success and probably sustainable success when it comes to me and my work. 

Absolutely, absolutely. That word sustainable is so important, isn't it? So important. So before we dive in, just tell us what it is you do now. 

So I work with leaders. I help them to become more informed leaders. I work at the intercept of leadership, mental health, and performance and I help them to be sustainably successful. I can't speak sustainably successful. That's quite of a mouthful, isn't it? 

I picked a great topic, didn't I? An absolutely great topic. A great topic. Okay, amazing. So let's go back a little bit. So what did younger you believe that success would look like for you? 

Okay. So, very, very independent, ambitious, came from an entrepreneurial family, and it was very much about, I don't actually want to be an entrepreneur. Yes, okay, my family have had varying success, you know, amazing success, and also, you know, things that weren't a success. But it was like, I don't want to do that. I want more of a traditional pathway. I am going to go down that. So success to me looked academic. It looked like progression through a corporate structure. It was actually getting me as a woman sat at those higher tables so that I could make change. That was what success looked like to me from being really young, from being a teenager, I would say. 

Yeah, yeah. And what happened? Did you build that? Were you sitting at those tables? 

I worked my way up to being a senior leader in a big corporate. Yeah, I had, I was there for 19 years. I had 13 different jobs in 19 years, collected A plethora of skills along the way and did, and for a lot of it, really, really enjoyed my work. But it was, success looked like the job title, the status, the company car, the material things that went with the job. It was enjoyment of my job was always, but also wrapped around that was the conditioning that to be successful, you have to work very hard. And I don't just mean very hard. I mean, you have to be a superwoman to be successful as a woman to get to sit at those tables that you want to sit at. And and almost like laser focused on that ambition really as a woman. 

Yeah. and I think we see that a lot, don't we, where there's this assumption that We have, as a young person, a young girl, a young boy, a young person, we have this belief that success comes with status, with things and stuff that I always talk about. So, when you've got the big house, you've got the car, you've got the job title, you've got the business making the multi-six, 7 figures, that is success. That is when we have made it. And when I speak to people who have been there and got themselves to the point that they really want to get themselves to, which for you obviously was being on those tables with that title, it doesn't always feel like you expected to feel. Did you experience that and it didn't quite feel what you expected? 

For a long time it did feel what I expected it to feel, but there was always a bit of a conflict because being a mum of three children and juggling that and trying to be the career woman and also the one that was nurturing and loving, within a family and wanting, having all of the things was a challenge. It was difficult and that balance sometimes was heartbreaking because you had to make choices that you couldn't be, I couldn't be where I wanted to be. But in terms of Towards the end, we in the final year, in 2017, there was a restructure at the company that I was at and I ended up with a promotion out of that restructure. I usually did if we had a restructure. I came out of it well because I made sure that I did because I worked so hard and my results spoke for themselves. But at the end of the day, I was then sat around that table and thinking, is this what it is? And that was a real kind of turning moment. It was actually a day when RMD was actually at a flip chart and was talking about people and passion. And I just thought, the thing that came across me was like, if you don't know what that is by now and how to do that, I am sat at the wrong table. 

Okay, so what did you go on and do? 

So, I then I left. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I just knew that I thought I would go and get another job in the same similar industry. But it was all very, it just, I didn't feel myself at the time. And I think when we talk about identity and success, that's a really, really interesting conversation. I think when I started to detach from what that success was and that I didn't want that anymore, it was like, well, who was I? Yeah. And that was like a massive thing because it was like, well, OK, what do I go on and do? Who am I? Do I even know who I am anymore? If I don't have the job, do I know who I am? 

Yeah, so the job effectively became your identity. 

Yeah, it was a huge part of it. Because if I'm really honest, I didn't have that much time to be me because I was at work or I was with my kids. You know, and we were running around juggling life's logistics that is of having three sporty kids. and ultimately that's, but and it wasn't really until I stopped that I realized at that point that I actually was not very well. And I had burnout. And I did kind of, I didn't want to reach out for help because I thought, well, at the end of the day, if I actually go and get help, then they'll know that like, I don't cope with stress very well. that's what I was telling myself at that point. 

Yeah. 

And therefore, I'm just going to, I won't be able to get another job again. And I want to be a senior leader again, or so I thought. 

Yeah, and I think a lot of us do that, don't we? have this fear of if I admit that I'm struggling, then I'm a failure and I've got no chance of ever getting myself back into the place that I think I want to be again. And that's a difficult conversation to have with yourself, isn't it? 

It is, definitely. So, I mean, I was, there were parts that year was 2018 was like, was an awful year. I'm very mentally strong, I would say, as a person. I'm very resilient, but it really tested me a lot. And I learned so much about mental health and wellbeing. And that's really has been my mission over the last eight years nearly, has been to try and educate people, leaders on, in all of those aspects. Because the more informed we are about ourselves, so the relationship, the self-leadership that we have, how regulated we can be and how we lead, but also the relationships that we build with others, all of that, once we've got those things nailed, then we can be really confident in our own leadership authority. And that's a massive part of the work that I do really is all around that. But it always, it starts with your mental health, your mental, and that understanding what your capacity is. I never, I never, ever had a, had, I just kept going and kept going and kept going and kept going. 

Yeah, which so many people do. So when you started to do this, you came out of the corporate and you started to do this for yourself and start to educate people to become, I suppose, better leaders, isn't it? To become a leader with the right intention, the right mindset and all of that type of stuff. What did success look like for you at that point? Because it's quite different, isn't it? Going from, I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be an MD, I'm going to be CEO, I'm going to sat at that leader's table to I'm going to be doing this on my own. What did success become to you at that point? Was it still driven by being at the top of your game or did it change? 

Yes. Although I worked out why I was more achievement orientated, because I'd used it historically, I'd used it as a distraction mechanism for things that were, oh, if I'm really busy, then I don't kind of have to deal with that thing that's hard. Yeah. So I would, you know, it's like, so I, you know, and I do have to watch myself sometimes for that now. It's like, You know, I love my work. I am so, you know, it literally feeds my brain. You know, I'm very lucky in that I've got a very, very creative brain. Some might say more on more neurodiverse brain. And, you know, although not diagnosed, there's definitely some synergies with that. But yeah, this, this, need to learn to and to keep myself like stimulated really is a massive, it's a big, it's a big, it's a big part of my character in reality. And when I look, I look at my dad and, he stopped, he's that, that's been my dad's been an entrepreneur all his all his life. And he's, done so many different things, and his brain is fascinating how it works because he can do the technical thing, but he can connect with the people. And sometimes that's not, it's quite a hard thing to find in people, isn't it, for people to be able to understand all of those things. So Yeah. So, I've people will say, what are you a niche? What's your niche? What's your specialism in? What you're an expert? What are you an expert in? And I always go, well, I'm, you know, pretty much an expert in mental health, pretty much an expert in leadership. And, but not wholeheartedly going, well, I'm an expert in this. And then you and then I have conversation with my like coaches or, and often they'll say to me, well, the reason you can't do it is because you are an expert in all of those things, Emma, because that is my brain. I've got that kind of brain where I am literally a sponge and people don't necessarily know, like until they're working with me, they don't, they go, oh my God, how did you know that? Like your knowledge is like phenomenal and it is. And that's what a big part of my work now and helping leaders to become more informed is sharing that knowledge with them. So it's like taking the best bits of these last 25, 30 years of leading people and teams and businesses and everything and just trying to share that with them, with other people to make their lives easier. But Yeah, it's yeah, success is it's I've had to really think about so it's been the things like, you know, number one best selling books being part of book collab. So things there's always been bits of achievement, that have milestones I've had to kind of have along the way. But also a big part of realigning that achievement has been, you creating some security for my family in a different way. But also the children needed me more as they went into high school. They're now all at college and uni. But that it normally you would think, well, I think a lot say the same, don't they? 

I think a lot say the same. There's more running around and things I think to do, isn't it, as they get older? 

I think emotionally as well. I think emotionally there was more complexity of of what they needed. And actually me being around at home, working from home, having that time with them, as was a very, very different dynamic. because there were times when I would go away and they'd be like, oh, you're not away again. My daughter used, when she was little, would cry when I was going away and then she wouldn't speak to me for a day when I got back. that sort of, emotional torch. I mean, she still does that to me now when she's 19. 

Like I say, sometimes it doesn't get easier when they get older, sometimes it doesn't get easier. So I think listening to what you've just said, I think the difference between the old version of success and the version of success that you moved into was understanding that why that sat behind it. So you said that you understood why you wanted to do the things, you know, a lot more. So I absolutely love that for you, that you got to that point. So over the last 12 months, you've had to relook at your business, haven't you? How has that been for you? 

Hard, I would say. So, well, it probably, it's probably, Yeah, it's probably more like 8 months seriously looking at it. I would say I've known for two years there was something not quite right, but it wasn't until probably the mid, towards the end of last year, that things were like, actually this is going to change how you operate. and my husband had a diagnosis in January with Parkinson's disease. 

Yeah. 

So at the age of 53. 

Yeah. 

So we don't, he's been diagnosed with idios, idios, something. Parkinson's. I don't know the cause of it, but also at the age of 53, he's had symptoms for two years. It's just the NHS is so slow in doing things. Absolutely, yeah. So it could be early onset Parkinson's. We're not 100% sure, but that's, yeah, what he's being diagnosed now. So that how we live and how we operate has got to change as a family. We've always been, it's always been very equal in terms of like, well, if he was accelerating his career, I would. slow down for a couple of years so we could do that. And we've always worked like that. It's never been like, me, man, I bring money. It's I've always been very ambitious. He knew that from the moment that we got together, you know, so it is it's all it has always been, you know, there's not men and women's roles in this house. It's like combined. Yeah. It's a combined effort. 

Yeah. 

So, but it has meant that we really need to change what we're doing. So, he is currently has changed his, like his job role, but with the same organisation. It does mean that we need to think about, the roles that he played in the house as well. he did a lot of the cooking. Apparently, I'm rubbish. I mean, I can. 

So, basically, you need a chef. 

He is my in-house chef. he always has been. But obviously I'm going to have to, learn that. But I mean, I can cook. It's just that apparently I'm not good enough. So it's fine. I say to them, you can't be good at everything, can you? So it's fine. So kids can cook. It's not a problem. So yes, I've had to really think about what I do. So a lot of the work that I do is like, I love to, there's always an in-person element with the work that I do. I know we talk about online things and online courses and things, but that sort of learning, if there's not an interaction for me and the way that my brain works and a lot of my clients, they just find it very like, boring, they need an element. So, and also with all of my programmes that I've run over the last few years, whether that be with schools, school leaders or workplace leaders or leaders in business, it's all, it's always, there's always been this live element because it might be that you go away and you do some learning or you'll, you learn, go through some recordings, but there's always like the coaching element part of it. There's always that live part. So that's had to be something that I've really thought about because I do like people to have a bit, I'd be able to have a bit of me when they're working with me, that's like, have a bit of the magic in reality. That sounds really like myself, doesn't it? But I don't mean. 

Not at all, no. 

But yeah, so I've had to really think about it and how can I get my message out in a different way? And also, how can I build a business? So he's still working for, who he's worked for many, many years. But what happens if he can't? 

Yeah, future proofing. Yeah. 

And so therefore, what I'm designing now is something where he is potentially going to be able to step into a role within that if he needs to. Yeah. And also, you know, the bigger picture, it's not just about me. And it might get to a point where this business needs to be run by other people, not just me, has to be that my magic has been put into, you know, into other things. And so, you know, I'm using AI a lot to help me with that. to get my knowledge into AI so that it can be shared effectively within, my programs and things. And so that people have, also have that incident access. So they've got 24-7 access to me, but it's not It's not quite me, but. 

It's your knowledge and stuff that's been fed into that. So do you think success has changed for you on the back of the diagnosis or do you think how you're going to get it has changed? 

Oh, that's a good question, isn't it? I think both have. So What we thought success looked like to us would be security, holidays, that sort of thing, I would suppose, and starting to maybe work less in a few years or that sort of success and spending more time together as the children get older. 

Yeah. 

It's almost put a speed on that. It's almost put more pressure on it because it's like we don't know for how long he's going to be able to do that. He's walking, he's affected already. Yeah. So, you know, it's not like we can go and play a game of tennis anymore or anything like that. But hopefully he might build some strength back up and we're looking at different things and things like that. But so that's got to look different. So I'm realigning my week. I want to only work four days a week. I'm probably going to work longer days on the four days that I'm working, but that's, you know, because I've got to work hard to get this new part of my business going because it's really important to me. And I don't be, you know, when you're growing a business, whether you want to be at the top of the tree in corporate or you want to grow your own business, people say, okay, well, let's make it so that, it's like evergreen or it's this or it's that or the other. Brilliant if you can do that, but it also takes hard work as well. 

Absolutely, 100%. 

You can't, you know, but what the difference is, that I've got the understanding and the understanding about my own capacity now, whereas historically I didn't. And that's a big gap I see in leaders, if that makes sense. Yeah. We've got redefining like what success looks like and it almost bringing it forward, but also how I'm going to get that is different because it can't be all delivered through me. And it's probably got to be a point at a push in, so it like in the back of my mind, perhaps I was thinking 15 years time I might sell my business. Yeah. And I've probably just got to think about, I've got to make my business saleable if anything happens to me at any point. Yeah. Because they can't, unfortunately, my husband's not in a position to pull that out of the bag anymore, is he? In reality, that's not, we've got to think about his care in the long term, but also, if something happened to me, how do I provide security for my family, really? Is that, and would they want to either work in the business or would they want to then sell the business on? And that doesn't mean to say that I don't love this business any more or less than I did before, I actually think that little extra bit of different pressure is actually making me think about it differently and more seriously. And in a case of this is going to happen and I'm going to make it happen, but obviously I've got the tools in my kit bag to know to what extremes I'll go, if that makes sense. 

Yes, absolutely. And I think that's... That's an important thing to talk about, isn't it? That, things do get thrown at people's lives, don't they? we get all sorts of things thrown in a way, whether it's illness, whether it's loss, whether it is, financial problems that happen within businesses. You know, there's lots of things that get thrown at us that we don't envisage, we don't expect. And when that happens, it's natural that we're going to have to change what we do moving forward, doesn't it? And it's quite a journey, isn't it? Because you are obviously a very driven, ambitious person, whether that's been in your corporate career or in your business. And, you want to be at the top of your game. And you don't have to stop doing that. You just have to do it differently, don't you? have to find a different path to make that happen. And suddenly things that you would never have thought about not at this stage of life anyway. You don't think about things like, well, what happens if something happens to me? We don't tend to think about that, do we? Because it never becomes... we don't ever think it's going to happen. I think that's the reality, isn't it? I don't think we ever think, you know, if somebody had said to you five years ago, in five years time, you're going to be faced with this, you probably would have done things differently five years ago, but you wouldn't have believed them. You know, you wouldn't have, it wouldn't have felt real, it wouldn't have felt like that was going to be, was going to be what happens. So what would you say before we wrap up, what would you say to anybody else when it comes to thinking about what success means to them. Based on your experiences, there's been a couple of times there where you've had to change or you've chosen to change. What would you say to people before we wrap up? 

Okay, so one of the biggest things that I end up saying a lot of the time, and this actually did come from one of my coaches, is that what we often think about with success and identity, we think about When I am successful, I will be like this. Because when I've got that success, it will mean that I can then do this. I can be like this. I can act like this. I will be like this. I'll be this person, you know, that I want to be. But that's just, it's bobbins. The more I think about it, it's absolute bobbins. We all, so many people think in that way, but really, the ones of us who have got to that point have got there and thought, half the time we've got there and thought, oh, I'm here, but who am I? Because we've lost ourself on the way. So ultimately, it's like, what is the identity? that you want to step into? What is the identity of this success of this person? What does it really mean to you? And be that person, be that person that you want to be. So a very wise man back in 2000 and I think it was 2010, 2011. Dutch guy used to mentor me in one of the roles that I was in corporate. And I said to him, why are they not promoting me? I am better than them. Why are they not promoting me? Because you're doing that, Emma. But I was like, why are they just not seeing? Because I've literally reorganised this whole business. Yeah. What's going on? When are they going to promote me? When am I going to get this directorship? Anyway, shut me up quick. Act at the level that you want to be and it will happen. So whether you believe in woo when you're manifesting or whether you're focusing on what that identity is, it's just really think, it's like visioning, isn't it? It's just really think about what does like success or even what does prosperity mean to you? Because prosperity for me is like, it's a different, and actually step into that feeling of sovereignty, whatever it is, whatever is your word. That's my one of my words of the year, sovereignty. Yeah, it's just really think about that, like that identity that, you know, that what does it, what does it, what you really want it to be and just don't wait for the success. Just feel it, yeah, want it, feel it, be it. 

Love that. Absolutely love that. And I think, we are, as human beings, somehow naturally pulled to assuming success is determined by a place, a milestone, a thing, something that we've got shiny that we can say, oh, I've got this now. But it quite often isn't the case, is it? As I think we've discovered in our conversation today. Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with me, Emma. It has been lovely chatting to you. And yeah, Everything that you want to, if you want to contact or connect with Emma, I'm going to share all of her links in the show notes for you anyway. But yeah, thank you for joining me. 

Thank you. I've loved it. 

No problem. And I'll be back with another mini episode about success really soon. 

You’ve been listening to The Simple Business Dream Life Podcast with me, Emma Hine.

If today’s episode resonated and you’re ready to simplify your business so it truly supports your dream life, you can find out how to to work with me over at emmahine.co.uk.

Until next time, remember success doesn’t have to be complicated. You can grow a business that thrives and gives you the life you want.