E121: Why Conversations Create Clients (Not Cold Pitches) with Daisy Ferns

Most business owners know they need more sales but what they often miss is the crucial step that happens before the sale.

In this episode of Simple Business Dream Life, Emma Hine is joined by lead generation expert Daisy Ferns to talk about why relationship-led lead generation is the key to building a sustainable, successful business.

Daisy shares why constantly posting, launching and dropping links isn’t enough and why genuine conversations, nurturing and understanding your audience can transform the way you attract clients.

Having built multiple six-figure businesses using this exact approach, Daisy explains how to create a simple lead generation process that feels natural, aligned and focused on serving people rather than chasing sales.

Together, Emma and Daisy explore how to move away from cold pitching and towards building real relationships that lead to trust, referrals and long-term business growth.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

✨ Why posting on social media alone doesn’t create consistent leads
✨ The difference between visibility, lead generation and sales
✨ Why cold DMs and generic pitches often damage relationships
✨ How to identify and support “warm” leads who are already interested
✨ Why following up is a service not something to feel awkward about
✨ How to nurture potential clients without feeling pushy or salesy
✨ The importance of tracking conversations and creating a simple follow-up system
✨ How Daisy built her lead generation business from simply having conversations with people

Daisy’s approach is simple:

People don’t buy because they were sent a link.

People buy because they feel understood, supported and confident that the solution is right for them.

If you’re tired of constantly creating content but struggling to turn attention into clients, this episode will help you rethink your approach to lead generation.

About Daisy Ferns

Daisy Ferns is a business owner who has built multiple businesses to six figures using one core skill: consistent, relationship-led lead generation

She helps business owners create predictable sales without relying on viral content or massive audiences, using simple systems that support real conversations, thoughtful follow-up, and sustainable growth. Her approach is practical, relationship-driven and rooted in real experience.
At the centre of her work is a simple belief: growth comes from connection. Daisy shows founders how to build it, nurture it and turn it into results.

Connect with Daisy:

Instagram   Facebook.  LinkedIn

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Lead Generation Tracker Template - use code GETITFREE to get it for nothing!

The Lead Generation Experience Day on October 8th 

Want to connect? Find me here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamemmahine

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-hine

Website:  https://www.emmahine.co.uk

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaHineStrategy

Transcript

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Simple Business Dream Life with me, Emma Hine. So today I'm joined by the wonderful Daisy Fearns. Now, Daisy, I feel like I've known forever, but actually, we'll come on to this, I'm sure, at some point. I don't think we've actually known each other for that long. So Daisy has built multiple businesses to six figures using the exact method that she now supports her clients with. And I have been one of those clients. I know how amazing it is. So Daisy is a lead generation expert who supports her clients through building real, honest conversations. Hello, Daisy. How are you? 

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it feels like we've known each other forever, doesn't it? does. And do you know what, though? It's like a real life friendship as well, because we've met multiple times in person, which is unheard of nowadays, isn't it? 

Absolutely is. It absolutely is. But I couldn't tell you where or how we met. But there you go. 

There you go. I wouldn't know either. 

There you go. Not that that matters at all. Not that that matters at all. So before we dive in, tell everybody about you and what you do now and then we'll go back a little bit. 

Yeah. So as you mentioned, thank you for the lovely introduction. I'm a lead generation expert and we work with our clients. to generate leads for them, self-explanatory. But we do it in a way that isn't cold pitching and cold DMing. We use people's warm, engaged audiences to find the hand raisers, to start conversations with people, to nurture, to qualify, so that actually by the time they get to the business owner, they're ready to buy. So What I teach, as you mentioned, is all about creating relationships with people and sales as a natural extension of that. 

Absolutely, absolutely. 

And I think it's fair for me to say when I first came to work with you and your team, that was my concern, wasn't it? That, you know, are we going to be cold pitching people? Are we just going to be annoying my audience, you know, and what are we going to do? And obviously, you reassured me that and then I saw that come into practice. But that relationship bit is what matters, isn't it? 

Yeah, I think so. I think we were just talking actually before we even pressed record, weren't we? But there's so much noise in the online space and so many people shouting about what they do and shouting about 6 figures. There's 6 figures that even though you've introduced me like that, which is fab. But then there's so many cold pictures in the DM like, hey, how are you? I do this, I do that, want to buy this. Whereas in actual fact, the best clients come from the people that you've actually had a proper conversation with, you've met in person. In fact, nearly all of our done for you clients I've met in person in real life, or they've been recommended to me by somebody that I've actually had that relationship with. It's so, important, I think. 

It is, it is. Yet I think it's the thing that a lot of business owners, and I put myself in that pot, I'm getting better at it because obviously I've had your team to show me how to do it better. But we sort of put at the bottom of the pile, isn't it, the nurturing, the building, the relationships. We sort of focus on what's in our face, shouting and screaming at us, or we focus on the constant launching, which is exhausting. 

It is, but it does work. And if you're the kind of business owner that likes the pressure and, one of our team members, she absolutely thrives on launching. She does her best work when she's delivering launches for clients. So, it's each to their own, isn't it? And I know that this is what you teach all the time. You've got to find what works for you. But I think the nurturing side of things is so important so that when you do have something to offer that suits the client isn't just a blanket buy this. you actually know that is right for that client. But like you said, it falls down your to do list, doesn't it? Because it can be repetitive. It can feel like busy work. But I really, really believe it's more important than anything else, more important than the shouting and the posting and the, yeah, more important than anything else. If you haven't got an audience and leads in your business, you haven't got a business. So it is, it's actually utmost importance that we don't drop the nurturing. 

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's a really valid point that you've said there. You know, putting content out on social media is part of the process. On its own, it's not a lead generator as such, is it? And I think people probably misunderstand that. If I post more, I'm going to generate more leads. I'm not saying you're not, because you're going to be more visible, which we all know is an absolute key part of building a business, that visibility piece. But if you just get 400 400 leads, 400 people that like your post, 400 people that comment on your post, and you never actually speak to them again, that's forgotten, isn't it? 

It's that, and this is what, this is what really, oh, you can see I'm getting frustrated now, but it's that kind of whole link dropping culture that I think we really need to move away from. So exactly like you said, let's put your, I mean, that would be a fantastic post, wouldn't it, putting something out and getting 400 leads from it? But then what you've got to do is you've got to speak to all of those 400 people. And actually, probably 90% of them, you'll be able to disqualify or they'll ghost you or whatever. That's just a numbers game. But what I really don't like is when people will just then drop them a link. Because for me, that's quite poor service. That's not saying, well, let's find out if this is right for you first. It's not handholding people through the process. It's not leading the conversation as the leader that you are in your industry. So I think the ink dropping should stop really. And you might as well use something like ManyChat, which again, don't get me started on that. So yeah, for me, it's about service. So what does that service and what does that customer journey look like when people have raised their hand? 

Absolutely. And I love that. 

Is this right for you? And I think that's a really important validation point, isn't it? Not just for the person you are trying to sell the thing to, but also to you, because you don't necessarily want to work with everybody, do you? 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think depending on the price point, depends on who the ideal client is, you're not going to be right for everybody. Everybody's not going to be right for you. Or it might be right, but it's not the right time. There's There's so many things that happen, so many moving parts, that actually asking the questions, making sure that person is actually qualified before, whether it's yourself or whether you're, we're passing somebody on to the client, because otherwise it's just a waste of everybody's time as well, isn't it? So yes, I think that's really important. 

Absolutely. And the most precious thing anybody has, and I would literally The guy on a hill saying this is time absolutely is the most precious thing that any business owner or any person has is time. So nobody wants to be, wasting that unnecessarily. Absolutely they don't. So let me ask you a question. I think one of the things that a lot of business owners, the reason a lot of business owners don't do this stuff is because it sits uncomfortable, feels a bit icky. Oh, I can't jump into people's DMs. What are they going to think of me? And all of that type of stuff. Give us your perspective on that. Because you do this, is your job. This is what your team do. So give us your perspective on that. 

I don't agree with cult DMing. I don't agree with the whole LinkedIn connect and pitch. But I think if somebody is in your world, whether they've downloaded a freebie, whether they have connected with you, if they're liking stuff, if they're watching your stories, if they're clicking on your emails, that kind of thing, they're showing an interest. And it might be a very subtle hand raise, but it's showing engagement. And again, coming back to service, this person might not know what to say when they're reaching out. They might not know what they need. So if we're starting a friendly conversation, to ask some questions, to find out if they need any help, just even to start off with a chat about the weather. we love talking about the weather or the football, don't we? Then I think that, again, it's just service and it's friendliness. It doesn't mean that we have to pitch to somebody. It doesn't mean that we have to sell to somebody. It's all for me. The whole thing is about building relationships. And actually, You and I don't work together anymore, right? But it doesn't stop us talking to each other. There might be a collaboration opportunity. It might be that we could refer one another to our clients. It doesn't have to just be about selling. And I think that we need to get over that and see it as a service that if somebody, you know, okay, so let's say somebody's downloaded a freebie and they've clicked on an e-mail or something like that. And we, again, I'm all about the transparency. So I wouldn't be just saying, hey, how are you? And I'm like, that's a bit of a coincidence. It's all about, oh, I saw that you opened this. I saw that you downloaded this. I saw that you opened that. Talk to me about whatever it might be. Or even things, something like, did it arrive in your inbox, okay? That to me is service. It's starting a conversation and it's opening the doors to a potential relationship in whatever way, shape or form. Absolutely. 

Absolutely. I love that. 

So it's flipping the switch, isn't it, from thinking about it as you're pitching to people constantly and thinking about it that actually you're serving your clients or your potential clients. And we all know that people buy when they've had a good experience. You know, so if you look after them, you nurture them from the very beginning, when you first get to know them, you're going to speed up that process, aren't you, of them actually potentially investing in you, whether that's, you know, something at one of your early offers or whether it's your high ticket offers. 

If not, that's okay as well. Absolutely okay. It's about not wasting time. So it's not, I don't think it's okay to kind of string somebody along. But actually, it's nice to be nice. It's nice to have a chat with somebody. I'm not saying, you know, let's treat all 500 of your followers or whatever as your new best friends. But it's nice to be nice and you never know where it might lead. And I think this comes on, sorry, I know this isn't what you've asked me, but I think this is what people feel when they're following up as well. So if somebody's inquired and then they go quiet, a lot of people, both our clients and just generally people that I meet to, they're really scared of following up. But again, for me, that's service because we're busy. A lot of people I work with, their parents or they're caring for their parents or they've got really busy lives. It's so easy to forget, even if you really want to do something. So just giving a nudge, actually, I think is really helpful. Like last year, for example, I wanted to get swimming lessons for my son before we went on holiday. And I sat on it for about 6 months, Emma. And I must have inquired loads of different places and just kept forgetting to actually do it, to sit down and look at different places, sit down and look at prices, inquire, fill the form in whatever it is you need to do. And if one of those people had come back to me and said, look, you said you wanted to do this, we've got a spot, do you want it? I would have been really, really grateful for that. Rather than seeing them as bothering me, I would have actually been really grateful. So again, it's flipping it, isn't it? 

Absolutely. And I think that's a really important point, isn't it? So I'm sure we'd have come on to that anyway. So good on you. No, absolutely. Happy for you to do that. This is a conversation. It goes wherever it goes. I am more than comfortable with that. But I think that's a really important thing, isn't it? And I think again, it comes down to people need to find a way of overcoming being told no or being ghosted, being ignored. Because that doesn't necessarily mean that people aren't going to work with you at some point or aren't going to be friends with you or a connection of yours. It just means that for them right now, they are busy, they are doing something else, and perhaps that's not their priority. 

Can I give you an example of this actually? Absolutely, you can. 

We love an example. 

So at the start of. June. I'm sorry, I'm just losing my months now. So we're now in July. So at the start of June, I started promoting a brand new offer that I've got called the Client Collective. And I posted about it, I committed to myself that I was going to post about it every day for visibility to generate leads as well, but you know, to get this offer out there into the world. And there was one person in particular that inquired who I knew would be such a good fit. So she inquired and then nothing. Absolutely nothing. And I kind of just thought, oh, she's not interested. But actually, I think I followed up three times in different ways. I left a voice note. I sent information on this. I asked questions. And at that point, you know, I've got lots of other leads. I followed up about three times. I didn't kind of lose sight of this person. I can join at any time. But I could have just thought, I'm giving up. I don't want to talk to this person. They're not interested in me and kind of running ahead. But she's come back to me and she's really apologetic. She's been away. She's had a lot going on. And we're actually speaking this week. So I could have taken offense to that and I could have written her off. But no, I continue to follow up. And there we go. People obviously, we're not always going to be at the top of everybody else's priority list. But I think if you keep trying and you keep finding different ways to follow up, At some point, you're going to have to say, okay, I'm going to draw a line under this, maybe come back again in the future. But don't give up. Don't give up on people, especially when they've said that they want something. 

Absolutely, absolutely. 

Because I don't think many people don't say they want something if they don't want it. just sometimes it's a case of it might not be now. It might not be now. And we need to get comfortable with that, don't we? need to get comfortable with that. And I think for me, where it starts to go a bit icky is when we say, no or not now. And then they keep, people keep coming at you with trying to push it down the line. And that comes back to what you said at the beginning in terms of, it probably wasn't the beginning, somewhere in the middle, where you said about it's making sure it's right for you. Because I think that is key, isn't it? that is absolutely key. So a great example. I think that really will help people to, see what that looks like. 

Yeah. So let's take this. I think there's a way of doing it, though, that's not just constantly, are you buying this? Are you buying this? Are you buying this? Because that can get annoying. And it's been respectful. If somebody says, not now, can we touch base again later in the year? It's again, respecting that. And I always like to say, are you happy for me to contact you again in September or whenever it might be? they either say yes, they know, or they ignore you. And in which case, I probably would still follow up in September if that's what they've given me. So I think respect and actually doing it in a way that aligns with your business and what they've said that they want is super important. Sorry to interrupt you there. 

No, absolutely. 

When you've got important things to say, you interrupt, you absolutely interrupt. And I was going to move on, but before we do, because I think that's just opened another question for me there. So I think another thing that I think I see, not I think that I see, is people lose track of the leads. So people don't, you said about I'll follow up with you again in September, I'll do this or, you know, I'll follow up generally, you know, if I've sent somebody the information. And I think that's an important point, isn't it? Finding a system or a way where you can actually track this. And this isn't about putting people's names on a dartboard in terms of I'm coming for you. know, it's not that But it's important to do it from a service perspective, isn't it? 

Yeah, it is. And I know where this is leading down there, we use Airtable. I love Airtable. And I'm not techie at all, as most of our clients will tell you. But I've got, I've built something on Airtable. that you can see your leads list at any point. You can filter, you can sort, you can even filter by kind of follow up dates. So every day you can say, right, who did I say I was going to follow up with today? And the reason that I love that, not only because it keeps everything in one place, but the reason that I really love it is because then it also takes the guesswork and the thought process away. So if you're feeling a bit, having a bit of a wobble or like, oh, I don't know if I should follow up with this person, if your Airtable tracker says you need to follow up with them, you've got to follow up with them, right? 

Absolutely. 

We absolutely love it. And I don't know if you're happy for me to send you this so you can put it in the link, but I've got. 

Absolutely. 

Send it over and we'll make sure it's in the show notes. Because anything, any tools or anything that we can provide to people to help them to make this process easier, because these are any processes, the more likely we are to keep doing it, aren't we? And keep doing it repetitively. You know, and I've been there and done that. You know, you've put a post out on social media, you've said, who's interested in this? You get people saying, me, So you send them the information. And then you think, who did I send that to? And in the meantime, you've had goodness knows how many more conversations with people and you've completely lost track of who are these people? You know, who are these people that I have spoken to? So having something like that takes all of that away, doesn't it? Takes all of that. So definitely share it and we'll get it in the show notes. 

Thank you. There's A how-to video as well, because if you're like me and you're not very techie, You can look at it and think, oh, what's this? But do you know what? It's just like a fancy spreadsheet, but there's a how-to video that comes with it as well. So yeah, I'll send that to you. 

Fabulous. And we will make sure that goes in the show notes, which is super, super, super, super excited. Okay, so where I was going to go, I was going to take us back a little bit. I have no idea how long we've been talking, but we're good. We're good to go. So what got you to the point of being a lead generation expert? 

So, I mean, I've done... 1,000,001 things in my career. So I started off as a teacher, as a lot of people in this kind of world did. And then worked at the University of Nottingham as a student recruitment manager for nearly 10 years. And then during the pandemic, again, as a lot of people did, I started my own business. Completely different to this though. I was a sleep therapist because we'd had so much trouble with our daughter. She got to four. She was still waking up five times every night. So we hired somebody to help us. I was like, my gosh, this is life-changing. I trained to do it as well. So very potted history there. But as with a lot of coaches that do one-to-one, very quickly became fully booked, booked my prices up, booked out even more. You know how it goes. You reach a ceiling, don't you? Yeah. And then I created an accredited training school for people that wanted to become sleep therapists and children's mindfulness practitioners. And again, that within, I think the first year, I mean, don't quote me on that. I'd have to check with my accountant. But I think within the first year that started turning over 6 figures. It was a real success. And at the time I was in a mastermind. And one of the other masterminds said to me, like, you know, how has that taken off so well? And to be honest, Emma, I was kind of like, I don't know. I just talked to people. And that's what I'd done in my student recruitment manager job. That's what I'd done with the sleep training. That's what I, and that's what I did. I just talked to people and that kind of thing that from school, when I used to always get told off for talking too much, I think it started working at my favor. So she said, can you do it for me? And I was like, sure, why not? talking to people. And it went really, really well. And do you know what? She's still with us today. She's our longest standing client. Love that. And somebody else in the mastermind then said, can you do it for me as well? And then it was actually Lisa Johnson found out about us and said, can you do that for us? Of course we did. But it was Lisa that said, you've clearly fallen out of love with the parenting business. You're doing so well with the lead generation. This is your zone of genius. Why are you not doing this full time? So I did. And I've done study, I've done training courses, we've worked with a huge range of clients and that's what's brought us to where we are today. 

Love that. 

Just from talking to people, a business is developed. But that's the thing, isn't it? And it is a skill, isn't it? Having been able to have conversations with people comfortably. You know, it definitely is a skill, but we can learn skills, can't we? I think that's the important thing to always remember. 

I think what people find the hardest is not starting the conversations. We have some incredible business owners, either that are clients, that are potential clients that just are in my world with amazing products and services and they are really happy talking to people about them. They're also amazing at selling and they do really well. It's the bit in between. It's the bit that takes you from either initial inquiry or initial conversation to would you like to buy this? It's I think people find it really hard to lead the conversation. It's kind of like mapping out that bias journey and getting to where they want to be without being friend zoned, without being the conversation just coming to a bit of a natural end or petering out and being picked up again. I think that is what people find the hardest. We're seeing that more and more. And there is a skill to that to be able to lead that conversation where you want it to go. 

Absolutely, absolutely. 

And If you're not comfortable with that, then your team will do it for them. And that is amazing, isn't it? 

Yeah, totally. They're amazing at conversations. But they always say, do you know what, we might not be good at coming up with the products. We're not so good at closing the sale. That's what the business owner is for. But I tell you what, they are phenomenal at having the conversations and mapping out what that journey looks like. They are phenomenal. They're amazing, the team are. 

And I can vouch for that. I can absolutely vouch for that. But it's important, isn't it, to focus your time and effort on the things that you, where your skills, where your enjoyment, where your passion, where everything sits behind. It's important to focus that time there, isn't it? But also, you can't forget this stuff because lead generation is, as you said, you know, previously, if you haven't got leads, you haven't got a business. And that absolutely is the case, isn't it? Because you can only say, here's the link on a social media post and get so many people who will click on that link. more will need you to nurture them through to actually buy it. And I think you said a question there and I think that's the scariest question that a lot of business owners actually get faced with and that is that do you want to buy? But why? Because you go into Tesco or any of these places and it's constantly at you, isn't it? Do you want to, we've got these on offer at a pound on the till, do you want to buy one? 

And the upsells as well. It's the upsells. People struggle with the upsells too. Yeah. I don't think Mr. Tesco is worrying about exactly what people are buying and about offering people stuff. 

We're not offended by it either. Not at all. You know, I think we're not offended by it either. 

But it's a different business. It's a different business model. I think we're very much, we are our businesses. So that's why it does come personally. And you do learn, I'm sure you'll say the same, you do learn to be able to take a step back. back and to be not taking it personally. I think you have to get to a certain level, right? But we are our business and there's always going to be a small, even if it's a teeny weeny aspect of taking it personally. And again, that's why a lot of people do choose to work with us because we work with a lot of neurodivergent business owners who may struggle with things like RSD. And it's really, really hard for them to even consider getting rejected. So actually, they're like, you do it for me, I don't want to see, just send me the people that are ready to buy type thing. So actually taking that step back is really helpful for some people. 

I love that. And that's a really valid point, isn't it? 

You know, having someone or somebody or a team of people who can do the bits that you just physically cannot do for whatever reason, I think that is really, really, really valuable. So before we start to close this down, let's just have a little conversation about the difference between the sale and the lead generation. So people can potentially see the gap, the bit that they are not doing. So I think if you asked anybody, they would say, I want more sales. I think that would be people's natural reaction to say, you know, I'm not getting as many sales as I want. But we know that the steps that come before that. So just tell us a little bit about the The process, so to speak, to take it from. 

It is all a process. That's the thing. And it is all intertwined because really, you might have a sales call or discover call, whatever you want to call it, or you might be asking for the sale, but it starts much, much, much earlier than that. So the sales call is something that we wouldn't personally do. That's kind of like the closing side of things. But I think actually, if you haven't done the whole lead generation process in the 1st place, a lead generation is just the process of attracting people who are interested in your product or your service. So if you haven't taken those steps to nurture and to qualify and all the follow up and that kind of thing beforehand, you're absolutely not going to close the sale. But even before the lead generation is the audience growth piece. So you need to be attracting the right audience. You could have a huge audience, but let's say you're selling something that's 10,000 pounds. You don't really want that audience to be full of side hustlers or newbies or whatever it might be. You've got to really be attracting the right people right at the very start of the process. You've then got to be actually turning them into leads that are, in the right position to buy. And then the sale is actually the end part. That's how I see it anyway. I'm sure there's multiple different definitions of things. And the sale doesn't even necessarily end on the call. It could be then that the lead generator follows up again, or the closer or the salesperson or the business owner follows up because the sale might come further down the line. 

Absolutely. 

Go on, sorry. 

No, I was just going to say, so it is all kind of intermingled. We just kind of really try and separate that out. But it's harder than it sounds really. 

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 

And we're going to come on to how you can help people in a second. But I think it's really important, isn't it, to actually realise how early on that the sales process actually is beginning. So as soon as you put a piece of content out there or send an e-mail or have a conversation with somebody in a room or whatever it is that goes on at the beginning, that is is the start of that process, isn't it? And not everybody is going to go through that process with you. But as you said, these people could be people you collaborate with. They could be people who are going to recommend you or you recommend to them. Or it might be somebody they just ring up one day and say, this is really peeing me off. Can we have a conversation about it? Because I just need to speak to somebody. 

Yeah. That's me and you though. We've become friends. Yeah. Even though, yes, we were clients and we've become friends through this. So that's. 

Absolutely, absolutely. 

And I would always recommend people to, which I have, I know you, and I would always do that because one, I know exactly what your team are capable of and what they do and what they deliver. But also I know you and I trust you. And I think that is important, isn't it, to build that up. So for me, I see that as a benefit for my clients because my clients have got a gap I can't fill. If I know somebody that I can trustily put them to, that's giving my clients more value. And it's a win-win, isn't it? An absolute win-win. So as you say, not everybody is necessarily nurtured for a sale. It could be for, you know, a something further down the line. And I went off on a complete tangent there. So there you go. As we do, as we do. It's all right. Absolutely. I always go off a tangent. Okay, so we spoke a lot about lead generation, which is really, really important. If people are sitting listening to this and they're thinking, do you know what? I need more sales, but I think I probably need it at the beginning somewhere. I need something a bit earlier on. I'm not generating the leads. How can your team support them? 

So we've got a few different ways of working with this. So our kind of core is done for you lead generation. That's actually the team are phenomenal at doing that. So they're finding people in your audience, they're nurturing them, and we're kind of building up to the sale, which you would do as a business owner. I don't know when this podcast is going to go out, but I am actually creating something in October called the Lead Generation Experience Day, which is for people who know they want more sales, they want more growth, they're really ambitious, but they're missing something as we've spoken about. So they've got this incredible business. They actually have sold their services, they're good at selling. It's the bit in between that they're missing. So we're going to spend a day together at the Belfry in the West Midlands working on a lead generation strategy. And you'll come away with something bespoke that works for your business. to create more leads, which turn into more sales. So that is if people aren't quite ready for done for you, or maybe they just want a taster of working with us or something before they're committing. And I've also got, on the other side of things, something called the client collective, which is the premium tier of the done for you lead generation. So it also includes access to a collective of Again, ambitious, maybe that's the key word here, but ambitious business owners who again are focused on relationships, on visibility, on opportunity sharing. So there's in-person sides to this, there are opportunity calls. So that exactly like you said, we can refer and recommend each other and share opportunities for growth. So that's the three things that we have at the moment. There's always ideas bubbling away, MSO. I'm sure by the time this goes out, there might be even more things. and more ways for people to get involved. But that's the three things we have at the moment. 

Amazing. And what I'm going to make sure is that Daisy gives me all of the links so that we can get all of those popped in the show notes. So if you want to chat to Daisy about any of that, you've already heard she loves the conversation. So Daisy or her team will happily, you know, chat that through and see if it's right for you. And if it's not, that's okay too, because we've already covered that. We've already discussed that. So before we wrap up, tell people where they can come and follow you because we want people to follow you so they know They know more about you. 

They're at the moment. It's going to be really easy. So Daisy Ferns on Facebook and on LinkedIn. And then on Instagram, it's I am Daisy Ferns. 

I love that. I love that's how simple mine is too. It makes it easier to remember, doesn't it, for both you and other people. Okay, that is it. Daisy, I have loved our conversation. I hope you have too. 

I have. Thank you so much for having me. Emma, it's been fab. I always love talking to you. 

Absolute my pleasure. And everybody else, thank you for listening. Do come and give Daisy a follow. Do have a look at her products and services. I, hand on heart, know that you would be well looked after if you went into her team. Other than that, I will see you next time. Bye.