Psychotic P***y Podcast
Just two sisters discussing women’s mental and physical health. It's not only our hobby, but our careers. We want to shed light on important topics & teach people new things every episode.
Psychotic P***y Podcast
Silent Struggles: Infertility's Impact on Friendship and Life's Milestones
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Ever wondered how to navigate the tricky waters of friendships when life takes you down different paths? This episode promises to equip you with the skills and empathy needed to maintain strong bonds even when faced with challenges like infertility, parenthood, and shifting social dynamics. Join us, two sisters—one a mental health therapist and the other an obstetrician-gynecologist—as we kick off season two with fresh insights and heartfelt discussions.
You'll laugh and learn with our new segment, "Tough Love with Gerbear," featuring our blunt, but loving mother, who answers listener questions with her trademark candor. We’ll also keep you updated with Bridget's pregnancy journey, shedding light on the vital anti-D injection for mothers. Together, we explore the broader implications of social media’s role in spreading awareness about infertility, while emphasizing the importance of compassion and self-care as illustrated by Kirsten McLennan’s poignant op-ed.
Our conversation delves into the evolving nature of adult friendships, especially when friends face vastly different life experiences. We discuss the power of understanding and respecting boundaries, and how small, meaningful interactions can keep friendships alive. This episode is all about fostering empathy, effective communication, and maintaining the connections that matter most, even when life takes unexpected turns. Join us for a season rich with genuine conversations and invaluable insights.
Disclaimer: This podcast represents the opinions of Dr. Bridget Melton, MD and licensed therapist Marissa Volinsky, MS, LPC, NCC. The contents of our podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice. The contents of our podcast and website are for general informational purposes only, and are not intended to diagnose, treat, prevent, or cure any condition or disease or substitute for medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before starting or discontinuing treatment.
If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255 or text HOME to the Crisis Text Line at 741741. These services are free and confidential.
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Hello guys, welcome to season two. We've missed you guys so much. We hope you've missed us. So for those of you who are just tuning in this season, we're both sisters and we both work in healthcare. I'm a mental health therapist and I own my own practice, new Path Therapy and my sister Bridget is an obstetrician Wow, hard one and gynecologist, and she currently works and resides in England. So we're both extremely passionate about women's health and health issues and we hope that when you guys are listening to this podcast you take a little something, you learn something from every episode. So we hope that you guys feel a part of our coven and that's why we like to keep it very personal.
Speaker 1I am a mom of two young children, so I will occasionally weigh in the ups and downs of parenthood in my journey. My sister Bridget is actually expecting her first child September 7th, so excited. So she's, you know, very bright eyed and optimistic and totally unaware of the terrors that await. Just kidding, it's beautiful, sort of. So a few new updates for this season.
Speaker 1First and foremost, which most people have been very excited for on our posts and reacted very well, is for the tough love with Jerabear segment. So Jerabear is our mother, and you know she's going to give it to us straight. So basically, um, we're going to ask her questions that relate to the topic of the current episode for the week, as well as maybe even you know, some write-in questions from the fans, and whatever she gives you know, we're going to let you know verbatim. We're just going to read her response back and like it is what it is, you know. So we we hope that you love that segment, and some other updates will be that we do want to introduce video podcasting, so you will get to see these ugly faces, just kidding.
Speaker 1But we would like to wait mid-season, when Bridget arrives for her maternity leave, so that way we can both be on the video together and we won't have any technical difficulties. So, mid-season, expect that. Another update is that we will have new guests this season. Uh, we'll keep those a surprise for now. Um, so with that, I'm gonna let bridget update you on her life.
Speaker 2Take it away yeah, we're so excited. Season two. Um, first of all, just about the jarabar thing. Like anything she says, don't take it personally, like that is the point. She's brash and she doesn't have a filter, so please don't hold it against us If she says something that rubs you the wrong way. Just try to find the comedy in it all and take it lightly, just like we do. Okay.
Speaker 1I mean I disclaimer. It does say tough love.
Speaker 2Yes, exactly. So before we dive into our episode, I just want to give a quick bump date. So when this airs I'll be 30 weeks pregnant. So I'm in my third trimester. Finally. Still nothing fun, like I've literally not had a craving or a mood swing, like it's been so unremarkable. It's just like I can't demand anything from my husband.
Speaker 2I had my anti de injection, which in the US is called Rogam and in the UK and Europe it's called Roflac. So I do want to explain what that is, because a lot of people so if you're like, not recess negative, you don't know what this is. So it's basically an injection that will protect my future pregnancies. So if you're recess negative, like I am, my blood type is a negative, uh, you will, and you have like a baby that is a blood type with a positive. You can form antibodies against them. Your first pregnancy is a freebie. It's a sense like a sensitizing event, just like allergies like your. Like your first nut, you won't die, but then on your second one you might have anaphylaxis. So so your first one's a freebie. This baby is predicted to be um, a positive, recess, positive blood type. So it is a sensitizing event for me. So that's why I like getting the anti-de-injection is really important because in my future pregnancies, if I have any recess positive babies, my body will fight it, it will make antibodies think it's like an invader and it will fight against it.
Speaker 2It can cause like very tragic first and second trimester miscarriages. So that's why you get it. I feel like anyone who's a recess negative blood type already knows this Cause, like you've heard the stories, like your mom was probably recess negative. So like I grew up my whole life knowing like I would have to do this and anytime, like if I have any vaginal bleeding. Vaginal bleeding depends what country you're in, how you say that um, if you have any bleeding from your vagina or if you have, um any like significant bump to the, to the belly, like if I fell, I would have to go in and get an injection, but I just had my normal one. So when you're 24 to 28 weeks, they give you a prophylactic one if you're recess negative. So that's like the only thing in my pregnancy. Otherwise, not much is going on.
Speaker 1I did not have to do that.
Speaker 2You're a positive blood.
Speaker 1Yeah, and John's O positive, is O positive? The one that's universal? That's what he is.
Speaker 2Well, there's a universal donor and a universal acceptor. So universal acceptor is O positive yeah.
Speaker 1I guess that's what I think, that's what he is. But I know I'm obviously you. Yeah, you know I'm A positive, so yeah.
Speaker 2I didn't have to do that, thank God.
Speaker 2Yeah, of course you didn't. You're lucky. Interesting thing about Jerry, though so she's a negative. So, like I said, your first pregnancy is a freebie. So like, even if you lived in a world without any healthcare, you were in a cave. So Marissa obviously was her first child. She's my older sister and she's a positive. So first one's a freebie. So even if Jerry lived in a cave and literally never had the Roflac or the Rogam, the next two children me and my brother are both a negative and so we're matches with Jerry. So she all would have been born and healthy. Even if it was, she was in like caveman times, which is so interesting it's a little like Jerry to get that lucky, though Of course it worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2I know it's very lucky for her. So this baby's predicted to be a positive or positive blood type. They don't give you the type, they just tell you positive or negative. So I'm like really hoping my next ones are predicted to be negative. Because it's so annoying being like ultra careful, Like anytime I hit a door. I'm like please don't go hitting doors.
Speaker 2I'm clumsy and I like rush around at work Like I run. I like look like a chicken with my head cut off. I like run around at work like that and I just like walk into things. So I'm like I really need to be more careful.
Speaker 1Well, I mean, I mean, I've seen you and you are very small. You don't even look pregnant at all, but still just even the little bump. Is it weird for you to get used to like spatially aware? That was what was hard for me. I was like, oh crap, wait, I have, you know, body there.
Speaker 2Yeah, it is actually. It's so weird, like little things you just don't think about. Like when you wake up in the morning, sometimes you genuinely just like forget and like you try to get out of bed how you normally do and you're like nope, nope, nope, I'm turtling. Like you're like I can't get up and you're like oh yeah, there's a bump there, like or like in the shower you look down and you're like why patches?
Speaker 2okay, it was looking rough yeah, I'm doing it like all by feel. Also, I bought like wax strips and I think I might ask Ted to just wax me oh my god, don't be embarrassed.
Speaker 1I asked John one time. I was like listen, I am not giving birth with a hairy cooch. You got to get down there and shave, like. Also, if it helps, I on amazon you can get one of those shower things like mirrors that like are anti-spoom and fog or whatever. So I have one of those and I would put it in my shower so I can see down there.
Speaker 2It's actually a good idea. I did think about that, but I didn't think about it in my shower I was like I might just have to get out of the shower and shave.
Speaker 1No, I like that better okay, I might order one of those.
Speaker 2Thank you, uh-huh, you're welcome. I'll just steal yours when I'm back in the states no, mine broke because of my children's.
Speaker 1It was actually recent. They were playing with it, unaware of what it was used for, and, uh, they threw it on the floor and it broke.
Speaker 2Oh, dang it. Okay, well, I'll have to buy one Because, honestly, like you're just like scrubbing your body and you look down and you're like, oh yeah, I can't see like past my belly button now, god dang it.
Navigating Social Dynamics in Fertility
Speaker 2God dang, it is right. So today we're talking about the everyday effects of infertility, how someone's newfound joy can impact our closest friends and family, so let's dive in. So the WHO, the World Health Organization, states that 17.5% of the adult population roughly one in six worldwide will experience infertility, so it's a very common phenomenon, and we all know someone who is struggling with this, whether we're aware of it or not. Since the dawn of social media, though, and the notion that there is no shame in sharing our fertility journeys, we are all becoming more aware of everyone's unique stories and unique struggles, so it just feels a bit more common and more talked about. Nowadays, we're also witnessing a shift in how we talk about pregnancies.
Speaker 2People are no longer told to keep it hush hush for the first 12 weeks in case of an early miscarriage.
Speaker 2Obviously, that's like the old guard you know how you were brought up like.
Speaker 2You don't tell anyone except your, your husband, your partner, because if you have a miscarriage like then, you have to explain yourself, whereas the new way of thinking is that, since miscarriages are so common, we shouldn't be ashamed of them, and we shouldn't be afraid to tell people our pregnancies, share your pregnancy with others, share your joy whenever you feel comfortable, even if that means you've just had your first scan, maybe you're seven weeks, you just came from the OB, and if you're excited and you want to share with people, you absolutely can and you should feel empowered to do that, and you shouldn't feel like, oh well, then, if we have an early miscarriage, I have to explain myself. You don't have to. You can explain as much or as little as you want. So that's just kind of a shift in the way of thinking that I definitely wanted to talk about. So, now that Marissa and I are both of an age where basically all of our friends are getting married or having children, buying houses et cetera, it just feels like we're constantly going to weddings, showers and baptisms.
Speaker 2And first birthdays and first birthdays, yeah. So we wanted to talk about how, for some of our closest friends, it may be difficult when your entire social calendar is celebrating love or babies and maybe you aren't in that place just yet. Maybe you haven't found your person, or you're undergoing fertility treatments, or maybe you've been trying for a year or two and you just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Obviously, you're happy for your friends and your family, but constantly basking in another's joy can become very tiring. So I was reading an article I just wanted to share with you guys. It's very interesting.
Speaker 2Kirsten McLennan wrote an op-ed for Motherly in January 2023, where she perfectly explains her feelings toward baby showers as someone undergoing infertility treatment and investigations. So she states she had to quote put her life first and opt out of attending certain events because they would upset her and, of course, this would make her feel quote guilty and selfish for not attending. But after speaking with other women experiencing the same feelings, she decided it's okay to decline the invite. And she closes by saying quote dealing with infertility is hard, it's all consuming, it's unfair. So if you are feeling upset or jealous about baby showers, know that it is okay. Your feelings are valid. Be kind to yourself, because that's what you need to surround you during such a difficult time. So in the article she basically says you know, if it's a very close friend who knows her silent struggle, she will go to their baby shower because that friend will have checked in with her, asked how she's doing. So she feels like I want to be there to support my friend. But you know, you get invites from people who you're not maybe that close with anymore friends from college, etc. And she wouldn't attend those because those women didn't know what she was going through and she just felt so tired of faking it.
Speaker 2She found herself putting herself to work. She would offer to mix cocktails for everyone who's not pregnant, or work in the kitchen and help serve out the hors d'oeuvres, because she just needed a distraction for those few hours at the shower. And that's really, really tiring. It drains you. You shouldn't always have to be thinking about your escape route. You're an adult, you have every right to be comfortable and happy in your own life, and so she just made the decision not to attend anymore, and I think that's a really important lesson that people need to learn is that you can say no and you don't have to have a reason. And I just found that really interesting and, I don't know, very thought provoking and kind of eye opening, because we are at a time in our lives where it feels like Some of the only reasons we get together you know, you get the whole crew together, all your friends is probably like a wedding shower or a baby shower or a baptism or the wedding, like you're just constantly meeting for the same type of events with a different theme and a different you know, woman of the hour, and if you're not having any of those, I think that's really frustrating.
Speaker 2Marissa, I want your opinion on this. So I don't know if you've seen this because it's all over social media, but maybe two weeks ago a woman wrote like an op-ed and it went viral, about how every few years her and her girlfriends get together for a girl's trip and it's a big group of them. They're all from college, they know, know each other forever. And this year she said no because she's the only one who's not married or having a child. So she said when we go on these girls trips, the conversation you know they're in the 30s now it naturally shifts to like mortgage, parenting schools, you know future pregnancies and it.
Speaker 2She just can't identify with any of it. She's's like I'm not a homeowner, I'm not in a serious relationship, I'm not engaged, like none of this is on the horizon for me, I don't have a child. So she was like I love you guys, but actually I'm just going to opt out of this girl's trip because none of the conversation has. I have nothing to like, I have no input. What do you think about that Cause you got a lot of polarizing answers.
Speaker 1I've actually have seen something similar in my practice and I will say what I've said to this woman. So you have your for your, your core friends right, your friends you've grown up with that will probably be there, even though they may dip in and out of your life. So you can always pick back up. They're never not going to be. You know your friend and know you very well. But what what happens is we have seasons of life and in seasons of life you can have friends for certain seasons. So I think that is totally fine.
Speaker 1You feel like what's best for you is you know you need to politely decline. Nothing wrong with that, it's your life. I mean, people decline all the time for other reasons, like work and stuff or or if your kid's sick. So why not politely decline for your mental health? Totally fine. But what I would say to her and maybe someone did, or she figured it out on her own is find those friends for this season of life, people you can relate to, because I think that would do a great deal for your mental health if you could also get together with a group of women who are exactly where you are.
Speaker 2Yeah, definitely Completely agree with a group of women who are exactly where you are. Yeah, definitely, completely agree. There are always you're going to have single friends you can make. You're going to have friends who are in the same exact position as you, just like you said, same season of life, who are still like you know what we're in our early thirties, like I'm still dating around, like I'm still dating casually and I'm building a career still, and I have no, you know, five-year plan in the horizon where I'm definitely going to be married with kids and, you know, moving into our new home. So I think that's a great point. Like you can find those friends who are still like you know we're only 32, 33, like we're still young, like I still want to go out, I still want to have fun, I still want to have more of like a hot girl summer and they exist and you can find them.
Navigating Friendship Dynamics in Adulthood
Speaker 1Oh yeah, absolutely. The world is big everyone. But I mean, this is a little bit different than this. But even in my own personal life, like you know, my best friends, nicole and Stephanie, they still go to bars, right, they still go out with their men. They don't have any children currently and they can do that and they always invite me. They're always very polite and they extend the invite, but I politely decline, usually due to kids or I'm just exhausted where I work at night, and they, they understand, they never make me feel bad and honestly, they almost expect it to me to say no, they just still extend it because they're they're my best friends. But it happens, season of life, we're in different seasons and we understand that we're not always going to meet up and want to do the same things. Totally fine, Just like I don't think they're going to want to come hang out with me at a birthday party with like balloons and loud kids screaming and boogers. Like I get it, I'm not offended. Like I get it.
Speaker 2And it's important to know that true friends, like the ones you've had forever, eventually you will all come back around and your, your different circles, will link up again because at some point you'll all be like, yeah, let's go out for a meal again. You know, our kids are a little bit older now. Maybe you know like eventually it will all fall back in line, just like how it did in your early 20s when you had no responsibilities, and you will find that groove again, just because you don't want to go out now, because, yeah, like you have toddlers, okay, you're not going to have toddlers forever. So eventually you will have that freedom back.
Speaker 1Yes, I completely agree. And for those who may answer you with, well, we'll never meet back up because I ended up having, you know, infertility for years and never having kids. And they have kids and kids are still the topic, even though they're grown. I would say if they are really good, good friends, they will understand a polite conversation about can we stray away from these topics because it hurts me, like I, I'm just not there yet. A friend would understand that and would never make you feel bad and and completely make that accommodation for you.
Speaker 2Absolutely yeah, until you find that place in your life where you're completely happy. Maybe, and accepting that, you know, maybe kids just aren't in the cards for you and you're all much older then and you've, maybe you have completely come to terms with it and you're comfortable and share in the joy of your best friend's children. Maybe, you know, until you're there you should definitely feel empowered to speak up and say can we please leave kids off the table, because it is painful for me and it's just, it makes the night not fun.
Speaker 1Absolutely. But I would like to, you know, give praise to that woman, because you know there are a lot of women out there who might struggle to set those boundaries, but then they go. And then you know there are a lot of women out there who might struggle to set those boundaries, but then they go. And then you know they may seem a certain way or upset on the trip, and then everyone's wondering like, oh, did something wrong? Is she sick? Did we hurt her feelings? So I think honestly, from right out the gate, it was smart to just hold your boundary, be very polite, you know, wish them well and fun on the trip and be like it's just not for me this year. I love you guys.
Speaker 2So wish them well and fun on the trip and be like it's just not for me this year. I love you guys. Yeah, and that's basically what she did. So I was like this answer is completely justified. Like you're a woman in your 30s, Like you're an adult, you can make your own decisions. Why would you spend your hard earned money and your vacation time when you know you're really just like not in the same groove as your friends right now? And I was like this reason is completely legit and I'm sure, if these are her lifelong friends, they were probably like yeah, no good point, Fine, but the internet just went off. I'm like how selfish could you be? And it's like, well, she doesn't want to spend her precious PTO like just talking about nursery school, you know.
Speaker 1Also for anyone who made comments about how her being selfish how selfish could you be to not understand that your friend is hurting? Like what if she's going through infertility? Like what if this I don't know if she was, but what if? What if there was a woman that was and you're like no, suck it up? You should be here to celebrate us. How selfish is that?
Speaker 2I know. And if she knows she can't contribute to the conversation because she isn't there in life yet, then what enjoyment really is she? You know friendship is give and take. Like yeah, you obviously celebrate your friends completely, but for a whole like week long vacation and nothing relates to you, like that's pretty dull.
Speaker 1I know this is why I'm not really a fan of these keyboard warriors, because if this were really a situation going on in my life and one of my friends said what she said, I would not be offended at all. In fact, I would reach out to her on the side, make sure she's okay, Maybe even send her a little gift and be like I miss you. You know, let's catch up. Maybe just us two. You know, let's just do something, us two soon.
Speaker 2I was just going to say that I was. I was literally. You took the words out of my mouth. I would text her and be like do you just want to grab dinner, you and I? And then obviously the conversation is whatever you two make it, because you're not surrounded by, let's say, five other women who also have kids. So the conversation naturally keeps going back to kids. If it's just you two, it's 50 50. So you know, the conversation could be about her career, her casual dating, whatever. It doesn't have to be about children until she asks about oh hey, how are the kids, by the way?
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, no, I a hundred percent agree. I'm actually shocked I didn't see this, so you would know. But were they, was the attack bad? Was there more negative than positive?
Speaker 2Would say at first yes, and then, as you, as you know, the internet eventually does reasonable people step in and are like, if this offends you, like you're not a good friend, Cause I'm sure her friends were like, okay, fine, Like you know, save your money, Um. But yeah, at first it was a lot of just like I can't imagine being an adult and being this selfish. Or like imagine thinking everything's about you and it's like, well, it's her vacation too.
Speaker 1So for that, just from my perspective, I feel like there's two things that could be going on here. Obviously, people are going to respond from their own perspective and life experiences, so maybe they can't fathom that, they can't understand it. Or maybe they've had their own negative experience with a maybe a bad friend, and when they read the story, they're viewing it through that lens instead of just like an unbiased lens, if that makes sense, instead of just like an unbiased lens, if that makes sense. So we can't. If I was the author, you know, of this article, I would remind myself not to take things personally. People might have some transference issues. You know their own life experiences, their own traumas or whatever. So they don't really know the full context and that you know. You just can't take it serious.
Speaker 2Definitely. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. Yeah, I just I read it and I thought this is interesting. I like, cause I feel like a lot of people can totally identify with that. You know how people are, like your thirties or your new twenties. So we're like I'm 29. I'm literally turning 30, like in a month, like less than a month, I'm basically 30.
Speaker 2But it is such an interesting time because you have friends who are literally just like exactly how you guys were when you're 25. And you're like kind of jealous sometimes, like oh damn, that's nice. And then you have some friends who like you like Mercy, you were the first one of your friends by many years married kids, house boom. So you're like caught in the middle of like friends who are married friends, who have children, and then like your hot girl summer friends. It's such a weird time and I just like when I read that article I was like I feel like every friend group can totally identify with this. Like there's always that one rogue friend who's still like out partying and you're like, you know, a little jealous, you know, you're like, oh, you still have that energy, like that's good. She should definitely like her pace is different.
Speaker 2You know, like she's unattached, she can do things that the attached just usually can't right and she should do it.
Speaker 1Go live unattached. Live for the rest of us run free, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2And like good friends would say that like good friends would be like, yes, girl, get out there. Like, if you still have the energy to go out, do it absolutely.
Speaker 1I mean, uh, you know Nicole, right? Hey, nicole, shout out. Nicole goes on cruises and vacations all the time. Nicole, I live through your post. Keep doing it. I live through them.
Speaker 2I feel like I go on a little vacation each time yeah, like a true supportive friend is like oh damn damn, that's nice, like good for them, you know, like you're not like bitter because they have a different life journey.
Speaker 1No, true, Like you said. True, good friends with good intentions. They celebrate your wins, no matter how big or small, no matter what your journey looks like compared to them. You know, there's just there's no competing, there's no nothing, there's just no judgment just supportive, that's all all yeah shout out to true friends.
Speaker 1Shout out to true friends. Uh, so funny. But, yes, no, I I have to say like I'm glad she wrote this article because I think it shed some light on maybe important things that are happening in our generation, like you mentioned, bridget, and I'm so sad for all the horrible comments you received, but we support you. Good decision, proud of you yes, proud of you, sweetie naps, um, but yeah, so that's, that's good.
Speaker 1But infertility this is a big topic. I know we discussed this first season, so we did want to bring into the second season this topic related to baby showers, cause, like my sister Bridget mentioned, we are currently in the season where there's a ton of, you know, marriages, babies, baptisms, first birthdays, everything. But we also we both have a part of our groups that don't have any of those things yet, because they're doing their own thing, they're following their career. They have Hot Girl Summer going that's cool too. They're traveling Amazing, wish it was me. I'm very jealous. So everyone is in a different season.
Speaker 1It's important for everybody to remember that everybody's journey is so different, and the only thing that has changed in our generation is that we now have social media, and that's why comparing is at an all time high right, because, like our parents didn't have this, so you couldn't really compare unless you know you were keeping in contact with your closest friends and that's the only people's lives you were privy to. But now we see everyone's lives, whether you're a celebrity or a normal person, and they they unfold in real time for all of us. So we have a problem of feeling like we're because we're a part of the journey, like we are their friends and we're, we're along for the ride and we feel like we have access and we get to judge and and that's just not right, because everyone's life is different. We don't need to compare, we don't need to be where somebody else is different is good. I can't imagine if we were all the same. How boring. So sorry for that rant, guys, but okay, so I'm going to I rant a lot and we love a rant oh my goodness, just wait to the video podcasting guys, we're going to go off
Navigating Infertility Support and Etiquette
Speaker 1anyway. So just a little bit on. You know the mental health aspect of this and some things I have seen when I've worked with you know this particular demographic of clients, so it's important to remember that mixed emotions are normal. I feel like I'm constantly telling everybody even people not dealing with this, just any client that two things can be true at the same time and even, honestly, more than two things. For instance, you can be at a baby shower and be suffering with infertility and be so sad and jealous but also happy happy for your best friend and not trying to take away from her happiness. You know like your sadness and jealousy really doesn't have anything to do with her in particular. It's just the fact that you've you've been wanting and waiting for this baby and you're watching others get it, especially if they're like the couple that wasn't even trying, you know, and instantly pregnant, and that hurts. That hurts when you're actively trying and you're actively doing maybe even IVF, like that hurts. So I get it and I, I, I make sure I validate this client. We talk about it, we process it and that's okay. That isn't. You're not a bad person. You're allowed to have these feelings, totally valid.
Speaker 1Next, we might work on some boundary setting for themselves. Now remember, boundaries are about you, not about other people. So we don't set boundaries on other people, just ourselves. So a boundary for this client might look like sending a gift and a beautiful card written about you know, I'm so sorry I couldn't make it. I love you. I wish nothing but the best for you and the baby I can't wait to see. You know you give birth. Blah, blah, blah. Here's the gift I know you wanted. I hope you get to use it. So excited for you, love you lots. You know something similar to that and you politely decline. You do not need to go to a shower if you feel that you cannot be fully present and, and you know, enjoy it. If you feel like it's going to hurt your mental health, it's okay. Decline, we're understanding. We're not going to. If you're, if it's a real good friend, no judgment at all. I would rather you just be honest and that way I can reach out to you and see you know how you're doing and we can make other plans. So that would be what we would work on there for the boundary setting. Next, I have some tips for friends and family.
Speaker 1We're going to go over phrases that people should avoid, and I will preface this by saying there's never ill intent when people say these things. I think that maybe people who have never dealt with this, or just they don't know what to say in an uncomfortable situation, just don't know what to say, so these things might kind of fly out of their mouth quickly. You know, they just try to make it feel less awkward and feel comforting, even if it's not so. I understand that these are not meant in any bad manner, but we should probably learn, maybe, not to say these things going forward, and I'll offer at the end something that you could possibly say instead. That might be more helpful.
Speaker 1So, okay, some phrases that we should avoid when we are speaking with people dealing with infertility. Just relax, it will happen. You can always adopt. Maybe this is God's plan. Well, at least you know you can get pregnant now. Just try again. At least you miscarried early on in the pregnancy and not later. It wasn't meant to be. Kids are super hard. Trust me, you don't want them. It could be worse. Have you tried XYZ? My cousin tried XYZ and she got pregnant right away.
Speaker 1So obviously these are not meant in a bad manner, but these comments can often feel dismissive and hurtful to people struggling with infertility, and something that you might want to say in place would sound like how are you doing? I'm here for you and I can see how difficult this is. How can I help? How can I show you that I care? Do you need anything? Simple phrases like that. They seem you know, more open-ended. They're questions in regards to if they really need anything from you and it just shows that you're there to support them and it's okay. You know, no matter what your healing journey, look like like they're there for you and and I feel like that would be nicer sounding than the other ones yeah um.
Speaker 2so even if you have said some of those things in the past and you were like, it's completely unintentional, I didn't mean to offend anyone, that's fine. Like we're not, you know, like actors we're not, you know, like actors, we're not improv specialists. Like you know, a lot of us are in a conversation that maybe we find awkward and we just say something that we've heard before and you will look back and be like, ooh, maybe I shouldn't have said that, so don't feel too bad about it. Like we've all been there, we all say things we kind of regret, but it's just important now to be a bit more mindful and maybe say an alternative phrase, because especially saying something like, oh, you don't want kids anyway. Like well, they, they do, and you know what. They're actually paying thousands of dollars to achieve that, maybe.
Speaker 2So when you say oh, you don't want it anyway. That's invalidating their life choices, and maybe like the fact that they had to refinance their home to afford certain treatments and so that is like extremely unhelpful to be like oh you don't. Yeah, kids aren't worth it anyway.
Speaker 1Absolutely. I haven't personally dealt with that struggle, but just seeing the clients that come in and deal with it, it is really sad. And they do. They understand their friends Didn't mean it in a bad way at all. They just they have friends who haven't dealt with it so they just it's. You know, they don't really know what to say. Like you said, that just comes out of their mouth. They're trying to offer comforting words and it really does. It sticks with the client. I will say these are some of the phrases that even repeat in their head. And you're right, bridget, so much money is spent on these fertility treatments. It's insane and it's hard to make that investment and still come up with zero. You know like it's not an investment that's promised.
Speaker 2So from like someone else's point of view, like you know, maybe like your old auntie who has five kids that comes up to you and says like oh, maybe it's not meant to be, but like from that couple's point of view, it's not just I can't have a baby, it's we have spent maybe close to $100,000.
Speaker 2It has been a point in our marriage to the point where we are arguing over it now because of the money. So now we have financial strain and marital strain and we still don't have the investment that we are hoping to get at the end of this. So that one off comment of oh, maybe it's just not meant to be is like absolutely destroying to that couple who are putting everything on the line to maybe have a successful round of IVF after trying a few times before. I think that's really the important thing to remember is it's multifactorial. It's not just, oh, they don't have a baby, but they have other great things in life. Yeah, of course they have other great things in life. But the fact that they don't have this child that they both have agreed what they want very badly is affecting everything else in their life and now they might be in debt because of it. So you know like there's a lot weighing on this for them.
Speaker 1Absolutely, and I know you mentioned this early on in this episode. As the newer generations are coming out and social media is a big thing, it's more talked about. So older generations it might've been more hush hush. So because of that, we're kind of seeing in real time people learning how to readjust our speech and the way we comfort people. So we are learning and we're also realizing it's okay, Like we're going to say it doesn't matter how early announce it. If you're happy, we're happy, it's okay, you don't have to wait if you don't want to. So it's just, it's a big change that's happening due to social.
Speaker 2That article in Motherly that I mentioned earlier with Kirsten McLennan. She says you know the struggle for infertility. It's not fair and that's true and it's something we need to remember. It is unfair that some people have a one night stand, maybe, and end up immediately pregnant and other loving couples who are desperate for a child have to shell out a lot of money and completely change their life plans just to have one child, and that's just really good to remember.
Speaker 1I think moving forward is that it's completely unfair and it is completely just twist of fate that one couple might end up lucky and the other unlucky, absolutely Some some things that we discuss in sessions that maybe some people who don't struggle with infertility aren't aware of. Um, they struggle with the fact that they're still trying for number one with the kids that they plan with their best friends, but their best friends are what they call lapping them, like on kid two or three. So they struggle because they feel like they're being lapped and they weren't able to get pregnant and have their baby grow with their best friend's baby Like they always had envisioned. And that's hard on them too. And and the fact that maybe that couple also got to three kids by just, you know, having fun, doing nothing, weren't even trying, kind of mentality and it is. It is very hurtful for this couple to hear these things.
Speaker 2Yeah, and you need to remember that if you are one of those lucky couples, you didn't necessarily do something so right that you deserve to then tell other people like, oh well, I did this and you know I never took birth control pills and I eat this and I go, and because it is sheer luck, okay, like you, you're, you didn't do anything special, maybe, like you know. So please do not get preachy on social media and tell people what they should and should not be doing, when we're all just trying to live life Okay. So it's just very frustrating, I think, to use social media as like a soapbox to tell women like, oh well, you should never have used birth control 10 years ago, like it's too late now, so move on, I'm in this position now and you're not helping.
Navigating Infertility Support and Communication
Speaker 1Also that really, um is so unhelpful, because then you would look at, say for me for an example, and I'm sure other women in my boat I use birth control for so long because I got it on way earlier than when I obviously lost my virginity due to acne. It wasn't for sex originally, it was for acne and I was on it many years and I still have two children. So, like you said, like just getting on the internet and saying these things, it has no value, it has there's no proof and it's useless because that you can't change the past.
Speaker 2Yeah, you're just making someone now what depressed and regretful for, even though yeah, no, this is completely unfounded. You can use birth control. It's safe, but, like you know people here, you know you get desperate. You know when you you've been in this situation for a while and you're willing to listen to anyone on social media who will tell you any advice. They could tell you to sleep upside down, you know, with poop in your hair and you'll do it if you're desperate and so there's no point. You know, making someone feel worse off and slightly more depressed and now they're anxious about what decisions they've made in the past. It's just completely unnecessary and I think people need to remember that they are not you know these holier than now the chosen ones. You just you and your partner got lucky that you didn't struggle with infertility and just be happy and share in that bliss and don't make other people feel like they're. They're making mistakes.
Speaker 1I agree, I absolutely agree. And now what you've all been waiting for and probably the only reason you're listening to us now is for tough love with JerBear. All right, Ta-da. So I'm going to read the questions out, and Bridget is going to read verbatim what Jerry wrote. Here we go. We asked her first do you think infertility was talked about enough back in your day? Jerry said not really.
Speaker 2I had several friends and two cousins with difficulty and we were only 26 to 29 years old. The cousins I did not know until after conception with fertility drugs. The friends talked to each other but not with me, but I was married first and had children first, so I may not have been paying attention enough. I do know after they each had one then they were more open and they explained you know, a second should be close. I also think people were afraid to talk about it because people were having three to eight children with fertility drugs and they didn't want to talk about it. Because people were having three to eight children with fertility drugs and they didn't want to talk about or explain themselves about reduction or not.
Speaker 2Mumum, babysat, the quints. Remember when we were growing up twins were a natural thing, with only three sets in my high school of 1600 people. That's not the case now with later marriages and pregnancies. So I'm just going to decode what she meant by that because I I'm like the Jerry whisperer. Um, so yeah, Jerry was one of the first married in her friend's group. So she's saying I was married and we were pregnant with Marissa.
Speaker 2So we I wasn't paying attention to if someone was having fertility struggles cause she was so overwhelmed with the business a new marriage, a new baby she really couldn't like focus on stuff like that. But she did have some cousins and two of her friends who did struggle with fertility and she mentions about people were having three to eight children with fertility drugs. So she's talking about like people doing IVF and stuff and having multiples and then back in the day they used to implant multiple like blastocysts and embryos, because the the thought was that they would fail so you might get lucky and have one or two at the end. Nowadays we don't really do, we don't. We don't do that at all because it's dangerous and you know you just implant one at a time. So she says my mom used to babysat, the babysit the quints remember. So my mom is our paternal grandmother. She babysat for everybody. She is such a good like mom and babysitter and grandma and she had a set of quintuplets in town that she babysat and they were very, very early IVF babies.
Speaker 1I think they were older than us, Marissa, right no, I thought they were born when I was already like. I remember hearing about them when I was like I don't know, five or six, I feel like oh, okay, so they were born in the mid nineties and maybe mid to late nineties. You know what we're going to ask that.
Speaker 2That's the next thing I'm going to ask Jerry, cause now I don't remember. Yeah, maybe you're right, but they were still like relatively early, you know, ivf pregnancy, um, and our grandmother babysat them. So, jerry, saying, like you know, you didn't want to have to explain yourself if you know, how did you end up with five babies? Like you know, you didn't want to have to explain yourself if you know, how did you end up with five babies, you know? So that's what she means by that answer.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, Well you, you are the Jerry Whisperer. I feel like you've just given yourself that official title. I like it All right. Next question we asked her do you think people struggle to celebrate others when they are suffering with infertility and all of their friends are having baby showers?
Speaker 2My cousin wouldn't go to showers. My friends were always upbeat and happy. It depends on the individual and when was the last disappointment and how long they've been trying. Today I think it's different, since numbers are more like 50-50, with people using fertility treatments. Only one friend chose not to try anything. She was very religious and felt it wasn't meant to be, but I had to ask her straight out, otherwise she wouldn't talk about it. We didn't have clubs, et cetera. No Facebook. That came after all of you were born, all right.
Speaker 1Well, I felt like some of that was straightforward, but I don't know. If you wanted to decode a little bit, Jerry Whisperer.
Speaker 2So yeah, to decode a little bit, uh, jerry whisperer. Um, so yeah, so she had a friend, uh, friends who were always I know the friend she's talking about their same personality still upbeat and happy for everyone. Um, but she did have a cousin who opted out of baby showers and I bet you at that time it was probably very rogue and she probably got some shit for it. Um, whereas nowadays it would be so much more acceptable to just be like, no, I don't want to go to a baby shower. You know there was no Facebook, there was no support group, so you know you didn't have somebody to lean on. So you know you wouldn't really know. Maybe people kept it kind of quiet. Yeah, that's, that's just what she's saying at the end there.
Speaker 1All right. And we asked her one last question, and it is do you know if your friends around you suffered silently?
Speaker 2or not, maybe. Again, I was ahead of all of them and struggling on my own with new business, children etc. So I would say yes, and I was oblivious. Not enough around me did Only heard about the sensational ones with too many and petri dish babies, test tube babies. I was really young then, 18.
Speaker 1Okay, that was pretty straightforward. You don't need to decode that one. It's interesting to see the huge change. Just you know generation later from you know what she experienced and then what you and I are experiencing, bridget.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's because I guess it was so new then and you didn't really know, like obviously it wasn't talked about because it was so novel and you didn't know if it would work. But you did have these children all of a sudden, triplets, quadruplets, quints, and you were like, you know, that was a bit of a maybe like wearing a scarlet letter, because it was like, well, obviously you use fertility treatment. So it was like you were the talk of the town Whereas so many people undergo fertility treatments. Now you, you don't know. You know people have just one child now and you, you would have no idea unless somebody told you hey, you know, we actually had to use IVF for this. So I think it is really a massive shift and we're only, you know, talking a 30 year difference. How much has changed?
Speaker 1Yeah, also, like you know, it's easier to be oblivious, though, like when we were talking about social media earlier, right, you're not getting access to everyone's life every minute of the day, so unless you're speaking to them, seeing them regularly, you, it's really easy to be oblivious.
Speaker 2Honestly, gosh, yeah, it's. You get so wrapped up in your own life you just you forget, even if with social media I forget. I forget the dates of showers and stuff all the time. Thank god I send my gift early because I mean I'm talking day of, I'm like, oh yeah, like you. Just you get so wrapped up and you're so busy in the modern world, we're so busy. I got so much going on.
Speaker 2And it's not that I'm not happy for my friends, I just genuinely like space cadet um so unless you're talking to someone all the time about it, where they're very open on social about their journey, you know they're updating everyone like, hey, this is what we're trying, this is what we're doing. Yeah, it's really easy to just kind of get lost in it all and totally oblivious yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2Oh, I mean, times have changed, that's for sure so we just want to say thank you so much to anyone who's returned this season, to anyone who's new to us this season. It really means so much to us, um, and we are trying to do improvements like we will video ourselves. We have this new segment. We have tons of new guests that we can't wait to share with you this season. Please, please, please, submit questions, comments, suggestions and tell us what you want Jerry to answer, because she will be really unfiltered. Like this was a softball question to start it off. We didn't want people to hate us, but please, like, if you have a question for Jerry, tell us we will ask her. She loves to be involved. Girl has FOMO like I've never seen before, like she wants to answer the questions she loves it.
Speaker 1So, yes, thank you guys for coming back for season two and having faith in us and, yeah, send us the questions you know. Disclaimer be prepared for the answers is all I'm saying um, please don't forget to like and subscribe everything.
Speaker 2Uh, social media and youtube is at psychotic py podcast. It means so much to us if you guys subscribe, even if you aren't regular listeners, but if you just hit that subscribe button. It really means a lot to us and thank you so much for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you, guys. Thank you Bye.