Transform Your Future with Eddie Isin

Are You the Problem? How Founder-Led Sales Hold Back Your Agency Ep 48

• Eddie Isin • Season 1 • Episode 48

Share episode

Send Eddie a Text Message

Join the NEWSLETTER at http://TransformYourFuture.com where Eddie writes about Entrepreneurship, Reinvention and Identity. 

In this episode of Transform Your Future, Eddie Isin sits down with Corey Quinn, author of Anyone, Not Everyone, to dive deep into the challenges faced by agency owners trapped in founder-led sales. They explore strategies to scale agencies sustainably, the importance of vertical specialization, and innovative outbound marketing techniques that yield results. 

Key Moments and Time Stamps

  1. Introduction and Purpose of the Book (00:00–01:27)
    • Corey shares the motivation behind Anyone, Not Everyone, focusing on helping agency owners escape founder-led sales and achieve scalable growth.
  2. Deep Specialization: The Key to Scaling (01:27–03:58)
    • Corey introduces the concept of "deep specialization," emphasizing the importance of niche markets and the three pillars: focus, strategy, and empathy.
  3. Overcoming Sales Friction with Vertical Positioning (03:58–06:58)
    • Why focusing on specific industries like law or medical practices removes barriers in the sales process.
  4. Building Founder-Independent Systems (10:00–12:43)
    • The importance of systematic processes in transitioning away from founder-led operations.
  5. Gift-Based Outbound Marketing Strategy (17:45–20:59)
    • Corey explains how sending thoughtful gifts transformed Scorpion’s outbound strategy.
  6. The Power of a 20% List (21:22–23:47)
    • How to identify and focus on the top 20% of high-value clients for maximum revenue and retention.
  7. Preparing Agencies for Exit (24:03–26:44)
    • Corey highlights how vertical specialization and systematic processes increase agency valuation and readiness for acquisition.
  8. Balancing Inbound, Outbound, and Relationship-Based Marketing (30:53–32:15)
    • Corey provides a framework for combining these approaches to create a robust growth strategy.
  9. Educational Marketing: Standing Out in Saturated Markets (35:51–38:10)
    • How creating content that educates potential clients can differentiate your agency and build trust.

Resources and Links

Connect with Eddie Isin:

Subscribe to Transform Your Future Newsletter Where Eddie writes about personal development, reinvent & identity: http://transformyourfuture.com

Beautiful. Corey. Oh my God, I've been looking forward to this. Welcome to the Transform Your Future podcast, Papa Eddie. Here we go. Let's go. I'm ready. Let's go. Yes, Eddie, I'm so excited. Be here. That's right. I want to talk about your past and how you ended up here, but let's start talking about your book right now. Anyone, not everyone. Let's talk about. That. There it is. Boom. Anyone, not Everyone. Yeah. I published that on the day after April Fool's Day. That's why I'll never forget that day. And it took me about a year and a half to write this book and I wrote it for digital marketing agency owners who are struggling at the phase of life from agency business life cycle, where they're not in the pure startup mode. They're starting to scale, but they're having a hard time escaping founder-led sales. So I wrote that based on my experience at Scorpion, as we were mentioning before we hit record as well as I have just overall over 17 years in the agency space, growing and scaling agencies. So I took a lot of the best practices that I learned during my time and applied it into this book. It's also blended with a lot of interviews that I do with very successful, vertically focused digital marketing agency owners as as well. So it's a lot of good stuff in there. So tell me, what was the driving force behind why you wanted to write the book when you needed to get it out? So after we grew, so I joined a company called Scorpion Digital Marketing Agency based here in California. I joined them in 2015 as their first marketing hire. I was their chief marketing officer, a team of one, and my job was to help to accelerate growth of the agency. Now, they had already had a lot of growth. They're doing about 20 million when I joined, and a tremendous amount of inbounds and client referrals. And we had to figure out how do we accelerate this? We tried a lot of things. We found a few things that really worked well, one of which was by taking a vertical go-to market approach. So instead of being a generalist, you've specialized in a vertical industry and as a result of that specialization, you're able to scale with a lot less friction than otherwise. And so based on the heels of that success, we grew the agency from 20 million to 150 million in about six years. And based on that experience, I ended up walking away from Scorpion, but I really wanted to, I'll be honest with you, Eddie, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, but I knew I didn't want to work in a company for a while, and I knew that I didn't want to start a company. I was in extremely fast growing business, a lot of growth. I was not nearly as gray as I am today back then, but I did want to consult. And so one of the things that I learned from a lot of people in the consulting world who've been very successful is a way to get started is by writing a book specifically for that target audience that I want to help, which is agency owner. That's why I wrote it. That's awesome. What are some of the key concepts in the book? Well, the first one is this concept I've coined deep specialization and specialization is not new to the agency world or to any business type. It's a topic that's frequently discussed in business strategy. The typical way that an agency, well, I should say I'll back up. So a lot of the agencies that I have both at Scorpion I've been involved in as well as I've interviewed a lot of really successful agency founders, those agency founders who have seen a tremendous amount of success in terms of revenue and profit and lifestyle. They've all done one thing, which is taking a vertical vertically focused approach to. Their marketing. The popular catchphrase today would be niche, right? To. Choose a niche. Niching down riches are in the niches, all of that stuff. And so when I looked at my time at Scorpion, we had all this success. A big part of it, as I mentioned, was taking a vertical market approach. So when I started there was we were working with attorneys specifically, and we had built a name up within the world of attorneys and law firms. They knew who we were and that familiarity with who we were and the work that we did and the results we had for our clients removed a lot of the sales friction from the process. And so we kind of figured that out and we decided to go repeat that in home services and these other vertical markets. The term deep specialization is based on three things. Number one is you have to have focus, right? You have saying yes to one thing and saying no to many others. That's the kind of focus I'm talking about. Number two is you need to have a strategy, which is a massive action plan to help you to create a defensive positioning and business that basically has a moat around it, right? Warren Buffet talked about this idea of building a business that has a moat. It's a protective layer that prevents your competitors from coming in and eating your lunch effectively. And the third element is, and this is the one that people get wrong, is empathy. Having empathy for your buyer in the industry you serve. The reason why people get this wrong is they typically choose a vertical market. They're going to specialize, let's say dentists or plumbers or Manufacturers Or dentists or whatnot. They'll typically look at the market and they'll say, wow, there's a lot of businesses and they have big marketing budgets. Well, we should really specialize in this area. And the reality is, is that they're not the only people going through that conversation. They're not the only ones who are having that conversation. There's no secret to the fact there are some really big markets out there and lot of companies, it's public information. What's. That? It's public. Information. And so what happens is you get a lot of short-term thinking businesses that are coming in, doing a ton of cold calls, ton of email, and creating a lot of noise in that channel. And the one way you can really create a signal is by actually becoming a specialist, what I call a deep specialist in their world. And you do that first by caring about the industry, the problems they're going through. In fact, the way I like to talk about it is from an identity level, you need to leave the identity of being a digital marketing agency as a separate from the industry you're serving. You need to actually become a part of that community. You need to become a part of the medical community. You need to go to the associations and go to the conferences and to spend time really investing in the growth of that industry. That's a way to create a very durable advantage. I talked about that moat. Yeah, that's great stuff. And back in the day, my agency was focused in medical and health. We mainly focused in cosmetic surgery, medical spas, plastic surgery centers, and Scorpion was right there in the same market. So was Einstein was really big, and it was a lot of fun. We did a lot of work and had a lot of fun. I eventually just changed the whole business model to a software as a service model because I wanted to build something that was more fitting of the lifestyle I wanted to live as I went forward. But now I want to go back and do it all over again. And so when you say you want to do it over again, are you thinking about starting up a service-based. Agency? Yeah. I already started a service-based agency doing marketing and advertising work and going back to, I mean, I have 30 years writing, producing, and directing for film and TV and work with a lot of top names of people. So we want to go back and put all that together and focus again on medical and health. That's wonderful. There is so much on the one hand need and the other hand, opportunity for folks with your experience and background to come in and really make a big impact. So I'm excited. This is one of the reasons why I was looking forward to this, because I want to hear what. You have to say, bro, to help me. Yeah, yeah. Well, here we go. Let me know how I can help you once it sounds like you have a focus on who you're targeting. The next important thing to talk about in the book is positioning yourself within that industry. So you're not just, let's say a marketing agency. You're a marketing agency specifically for medical practices. Do you have a focus within medical practices? You mentioned cosmetic surgery or Yeah, talking. My history is, I mean, I've worked with hundreds of cosmetic surgical centers, med spas, plastic surgeons across the United States. So that. Is a type of specialization that will help you to differentiate from a lot of the other agencies that don't have that specialization. And you also have a lot of history, so you're able to communicate that you are somewhat of an insider to their world, I imagine. And a lot of past customers. Perfect. That's wonderful. And the reason why that is so helpful is because the folks who you're going to be attracting to your website, who are going to consider hiring you, they're going to have a lot of resistance about this as a sales professional. And the job of the website is to increase the trust more quickly so that the resistance goes down. And one of the ways you do that effectively is by evidence that you are able to be effective for people just like the ones that are on your website. Sure. I got loads of testimonials. Exactly. And you're a video guide, sounds like. So video is a very, they say it's like a picture is worth a thousand words. Well, a video is probably worth a million, right? But I think the whole idea in general of specialization and the whole idea of the founder not being caught up in having to do all the selling and hands-on with the customers, this is also very important for almost any business. I mean, it's a topic that a lot of different businesses would be interested, although I understand your focus and background has to do with agencies. Yeah, no, and there's a. Whole lot of agencies too. There are a lot of agencies, but this is a challenge that any most founders face, especially earlier in the stages of their business, which is that especially when they serve a broad market of folks, like you're starting your agency really focused on a specific market, but a lot of people, let's say an agency, a service-based business, could be a law firm, could be an accounting firm. You just go out and you just do business with everybody, which is great, a vehicle for you to say yes and to get paid and to start to build an actual business. But eventually, when the founder wants to, you talked about lifestyle, when the founder wants to get out of that sales role, they typically struggle when they are more generally focused on a lot of different businesses. The reason why is because when you conform your product based on every sales conversation because you want to get the sale, it becomes a very sort of bespoke custom sale every time, and that is sort of the opposite of a system. What you need to be able to transition out of sales is to have a sales system. And what I mean by system is like an SOPA very specific process where you could put anyone through this system and get the same output. You could just train people, put'em in the seat to do the job. Correct. Correct. And you don't have to do it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Now you have to have people who do have to train the sales team, and I would say in most service based, business related sales, you need to have somewhat of a sales person that can ask great questions, can have some expertise, can have some empathy, and really be able to unpack that. But from a product perspective and from a process perspective, the prospect may not know this, but they're following a specific system, and that's leading to a predictable outcome. And that happens when you go from serving everybody to serving a specific type of client over and over and over again. You're able to productize the actual product itself, but also the sales process becomes much more, like I said, systematic. That's one. This way your messaging is very tight because it's always the same messaging. You always took it to the same type of customer. That's it. And you're, you're able to uncover and articulate a deeper level of problems that they're suffering with, and sometimes they can't even find the right words to articulate, but because you work with them day in, day out, you typically know their business very well from an outsider's perspective, And that allows you to communicate the level of customer care intimacy in all of the copy and all of the marketing materials. Again, it creates more signal versus the noise that's out there. So that's the second one is when you have a service-based business that has what I call watery positioning, which means that even though you may have something that's really unique, if your buyer can't see that, it is likely that they're going to hire your competition. Typically, companies that are not as good as you, you're going to compete on price and you'll lose out to these lesser firms. And so what you just said is absolutely correct. You need to have a really, really sharp vertical specific messaging. I'll give you a quick example. A client of mine, he had, it's an SEO agency, and they had this ai, they had this amazing AI system, and they struggled with their positioning because the buyer, who is not a technical buyer of their service, does not understand ai does not understand the inner workings of a watch. They just want to be told what time it's right. They don't need to know how the watch works type of thing. Well, this agency went so deep into the technology, like the what and the how that they would lose their buyers and they would lose out to lesser firms. It was once they were able to realize, Hey, we need to focus on the problems we solve for the specific audience. How we do it is, by the way, ai, but what people cared about was the fact that they solved their specific problem in a better way. It's kind of like sometimes when salespeople are a little bit green or they're given a lot of rope, they'll start talking to customers about all these features and not really talk about what the benefit is for them. And then they get feature overwhelm and they're like, well, I have to think about it because you just told me 40 different features. Instead of just focusing on the two or three top line benefits that somebody can get out of the system right now to have an impact in their business. I would even say, yeah, I'm a big fan of talking about the problems we solve in a sales conversation, because that typically gets the emotional side of the prospect going. If you're able to connect with them and get them feel safe, they're able to share the problems they're suffering with because I think as we all know that people buy with emotion and they justify with logic. And so if we can connect with them on an emotional level, uncover the pre current problems, what their desired situation is, and create the moat between where they are now, where they want to be, that's a great sales conversation. And I'm a strong proponent of a really good discovery process when you're working with clients because I really want to get to know them. I really want to hear what's the struggles, challenges they're facing, what are the pain points? What are their problems? If I could do everything and I could just wave a magic wand, what would I take away from you that would have the biggest impact in your life? Such a great question. I love that, Eddie. That's really great. I think the third thing, you could use that. Yeah. Okay. Magic wand, here we go. One of the things, the third thing that causes a founder to really struggle with escaping, I talked about how they lack a focus. They're too general, so they have to be really custom in the sale. Number two is having watery positioning or not really clearly defined positioning that doesn't speak to the buyer. The third one is when the founder walks away from sales, whatever that is for that business, the deals just don't happen. They lack an ability to drive more pipeline, and typically it's because they do what I call the peanut butter strategy, which is they're trying to spread their marketing and sales across a lot of different channels and not doing it really, really well. And so that's just a lack of understanding how to attract great opportunities when the founder is not driving the sales. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. We need a steady pipeline. To me, that's the number one thing that I want to provide to my business is a steady stream of people to talk to. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I could talk about some ways to do that. Well, I know I do want to talk about some more things, but I'm just curious. This gift based outbound strategy, I want to talk about that I'm interested. Yeah. Are we sending. IPads or what? Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you the backstory a little bit. So at Scorpion, I joined in 2015. It was already a relatively successful agency doing 20 million focused on attorneys, had a ton of inbounds, and we had already maximized a lot of the client relationships, yet I was being brought in to help grow, accelerate growth. So what do I do to accelerate growth? Well, of course we start cold calling, and the challenge with cold calling is that no one likes to be rejected 50 times a day. And this sales team would typically subsist off of inbounds. They're very comfortable with picking up the phone and doing a great job closing the deals. But when it came to outbound, it was a lot of friction. And we were also calling into law firms and law firms have professional gatekeepers, and these are the receptionists and office managers whose primary role is to prevent the salesperson from getting access to the attorney. So there was a lot of just really slow going in the early days. Everything really changed for us. When we decided to start sending cookies ahead of the cold calls, the sales team hated doing cold calls. Well, they didn't hate following up on cookies as much, And the attorneys would absolutely love the cookies. And so it allowed us to take, let's call it a high value prospect who didn't know us, didn't have a relationship with us, and gave us an opportunity to really build a relationship with them because we had already given them an amazing gift. That was sort of a tool that we kind of really figured out. And it became a really instrumental in our ability to scale the agency because we didn't have to just rely on inbounds and referrals. We could now reach out into the market, send gifts out to a select list of prospects, and as a result of sending the gifts, we would generate appointments. And those appointments turned into sales. It was really kind of creating relationships on demand. And so big part of our growth was gifts. I'll share with you, towards the end of when I was at Scorpion, my marketing budget didn't start here, but I had a $6 million marketing budget. Now I was exclusively focused on driving more new revenue for Scorpion. It went towards trade shows, conferences, paid media content, gifts and everything else. How much of that 6 million would you guess was attributed to gifts that we spend on gifts? 4 Million. A little less. 3 million. About half our budget went to gifts. I. Had a feeling that it was a really large number. I know it was a big buildup. That's amazing. Yes. We spent a lot, because it absolutely worked for us. Outbound went from contributing no revenue to the agency to contributing half of our revenue and while growing, so it was very significant. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. You had a lot of great success with them. Yeah. I think a lot. Yeah, I learned a lot. It was very challenging and rewarding work at the same time. I enjoyed it. So what's the importance of a 20% list? What is that about that we were you wrote? Yeah. So typical outbound, if you think of most agencies and most service-based businesses, founders typically don't have a background in doing cold calling or going outbound. It's typically not a skillset they come with. And so what happens is they struggle because they may hire a third party LinkedIn lead gen company or a third party cold email or cold calls, and that just becomes a real struggle for these agency founders because those typically don't really work out that well. And so my approach to outbound, it's related to the gifts, but it's an important part of it, which is instead of casting a wide net with outbound, typically what you see is let's buy a list of a million dentists and let's just send them a whole sequence of emails. We'll see what comes back type of thing. And that's sort of the opposite of the approach that I take with gift based outbound, which is instead of sending doing net phishing, you want to do spear phishing. We want to find the 20% of the businesses in our target audience. So for you, it'd be medical practices, Which 20% are the highest value for your agency in terms of revenue, retention, profit, those types of things, and only focus on those. Chet Holmes wrote a book called The Automatic Sales Machine, I believe talks about your. Dream, the ultimate sales machine with the Dream 100, the ultimate sales. Machine. Thank you. One of my favorite sales books. And so he talks about your Dream 100. This is the same idea where you, instead of trying to target a huge number of businesses with, again, the peanut butter approach, you want to take a very concentrated approach and put a lot of effort behind getting your Dream 100. That's the same idea with the 20% list, the idea that it's Arad principle, 20% of the market that you're targeting is going to generate 80% of the revenue, profit, and retention. And so let's focus on that. Right. That's good. That's good. So focus our time, effort, and energy on contacting the highest value targets rather than everybody. And that's exactly, that's good. That's good. I could see how all the little focusing and changing perspective on this stuff is really going to help with the outcome at the end. That's right. That's right. And going back to having a focus on a specific market, being able to communicate at a deep level with their language and their specific pain points, you combine all of those things and it is very transformative. So what else can you help agencies with, obviously with sales and sales strategy, helping to make sure that we're lining things up so that the founder is not a prisoner to the business and that he can do things. What about getting it ready for being sold or getting it ready for an exit? Yeah. Well, what I understand, and I know companies like Scorpion, we acquired agencies. I know other agencies that have been acquired recently. And what I know is that acquirers of an agency or any business wants to effectively find a business or an asset that is generating cash that is not dependent on any key employees ideally. And one of the challenges with acquiring agencies is in many cases, the agency is really built around the founder. And so the beauty of being vertically focused and being more system approach to sales and operations and everything else is that the founder is not really required. So at Scorpion, I'll give you an example. We were marketing to attorneys. They would call us up and our sales team would do one call closes. Guess what was not part of the conversation? Who's No one cared. It wasn't a part of the buying criteria. What attorneys cared about was working with a specialist who understood how to solve their specific problem. And so that's one of the real benefits of taking a vertical specialization, is that you're able to be independent from the founder, which helps with valuations when you're ready to sell. Interesting. Yeah, that was my big mistake in the past, was being so involved that everybody wanted to talk to me and it was all about me, and I didn't want it to be about me. I wanted it to walk away and let the business be the business and me go have a life instead of working seven 80 hours a week for the rest of my life. So I'm definitely not going to make that mistake again. I haven't made that mistake again, and everything I did, even when I changed it into a software as a service company, it definitely wasn't built around me. So that all we need to do is train somebody, put 'em in a seat and go after the market. So yeah, that's really good info. I think that maybe I needed to go through that. Maybe oftentimes it has to organically happen that way, but at some point, having a plan to change that paradigm is obviously what's ultimately important. I have friend right. Now is he's doing like 10 million a year, but the whole business is really based upon him and him talking and him talking to people. And if he stopped, I don't know how he would really make money anymore. I mean, I guess he can go, but he needs to change that around, which I think he's trying to do. He's get involved with some real estate deals and different stuff like that so that he can segue out of being in the face of everything. Yeah, there's a really great book recently written by Dan Martel called Buyback Your Time, and it's a systematic approach to effectively do what you're talking about, which is to transform the business so that it's not dependent on you. And the key concept is that you hire people to, so you allow you to have more time back in your calendar, so you're continually replacing yourself, and you become much more process driven versus personality driven. Yeah, I think, is that the book where the first hire should be an administrative assistant or something like that? Yeah. It's administrative assistant, then operations, and then marketing and then sales. Yeah, I definitely like the ideas in that book for sure. Yeah, it's important. And in fact, one of the businesses that I've been talking to for a while, it is an agency that kind similar to your friend, where it's two partners. They do digital marketing for a lot of different variety of businesses. They've been around for 30, 35 years now. Their kids work in the agency, and the kids are not the founders. The kids are just, they work there. They're not the face of the agency. Now they're trying to figure out how do we pass this asset onto our kids in such a way that sets them up for success? And so one of the things we've been talking about is identifying a vertical market that they can specialize in. Turns out that they have a lot of clients in a specific type of medical practice that's going to be helpful for them. But before they figured that out, that was going to be really difficult because they were just the face of the business and there's just no clear way out. Yeah, that's good. I really see that the work that you're doing is really quite valuable because I guess part of the reason is that the barrier for entry into being a digital marketing agency is like nothing, right? It's not a big deal. You don't need a ton of equipment, probably just a reasonably good laptop and a great internet connection, and you're up and running. I mean, I know a guy who runs his digital agency on his laptop going from coffee shop to whatever, and just doing it. Wherever he's at. You could white label a lot of the operational, a lot of the media buying. You don't even need to have a team yourself. You could hire These companies to do it for you. And so yeah, it is very easy. And part of the work that I do for some of my clients is I will interview their clients about how and why they bought for my client. And one of the things that came up, especially I remember, I'll never forget this, it was a med spa owner, this wonderful woman up in the Pacific Northwest. She has this family run med spa, and she was telling me, she said, gosh, Corey, these people, they call me. All these agencies call me all the time, all these other agencies, they want my business. They're sending me text messages, voicemails, I get like 20 a day. And she just can't stand it. And the challenge is that all business owners that agencies want to work with, they're all getting this, all this noise. And so there's so much, I would say, noise in the channel. At the same time, opportunity for specialists such as yourself who level and solving a specific problem to cut through that noise in a meaningful way that will lead you into having really high quality conversations with high value prospects. That's very interesting. Yeah, I would like to write that out on paper and make a plan around that idea. Well, there's 26 different sales and marketing tactics you could do at the vertical level. I group 'em into three things. Number one is inbound. To me, inbound is anytime one of your vertical buyers is in the process of making a buying decision. So that could be paid search, paid social, your blog, your podcast, all of these different mediums to capture people when they're trying to solve a problem. Outbound, we've already talked about gift based outbound, very effective, but you could also do email and these other channels. And then the third one is what I call relationship based outbound, sorry, relationship based marketing, which is getting involved with the associations, going to the conferences, hosting parties and events, really spending time with these people and building a direct relationship with them. If you're able to balance all three of them. I'm not proposing you do all 26, by the way, but if you're able to balance inbound, outbound and relationship based marketing, you'll have all the tools you need to scale and to grow a great business. That's excellent. From your ellips to God's ears. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. No, I love it. I love it. I'm serious. I'm serious. Let's go. Let's. Go. Baby. Awesome, awesome. Yeah. So. Where are you at in the agency experience? You launched the agency? Well, actually because of certain reasons I wanted to familiarize myself with, I wanted to make sure that my skill level is up to par in 2024. So I took about eight months to just research a lot of stuff, talk to a lot of different people, see what people are doing in the space, talk to clients and see where they're at, what they're doing, what's the needs. And I think I've got a pretty good handle on the services that we're going to offer that are going to be the main focus and the group of medical that we're going to go after. And I think we're ready. I have a whole suite of software that supports all of it that the clients would get for free basically, so that they could use that within their means. Yeah, I have a vision and I have started writing out the business plan, and now I hired a couple of people. So now it's about really building out that strategy and start talking, having conversations. I'm excited for you, especially given your history. You've been down this road sounds like a couple times potentially. I think it's going to be a great success. The thing is, I want to make a very big impact in the world, and I feel like right now I'm at the prime of my life. I'm at the top of my game, so it just seems like everything is aligned for me to just go all in and go 150 miles an hour. That's beautiful. I tell you, there's a lot, especially medical, I know this because a couple of my clients are focused on med spas and whatnot, and there's just so much opportunity to take care of these poor business owners that just don't, they get taken advantage by folks who are not focused on making an impact, but are really more focused on serving themselves. And I think why I've always liked it is because these are services that there's a certain level of complexity in these services that they provide, and in order for a prospect to feel comfortable enough to move forward, they need some education. They need some education, they need some information. So I've always felt like I read, for example, in 2001, monopolize Your Marketplace, And I had some other things that I had studied back then. And so back then is when I started doing this educational based marketing and advertising messaging to stand out from all the other ads, and it just seemed like a natural progression that it ended up working with medical and health practices in 2002, and the whole thing just kind of blew up from there. They need, and they understand it. This is the thing, these are the type of clients that understand that to to actually help them to understand what the process is, what's important, what you got to look out for, why you should work with a board certified person maybe, or something like that, or why you need this technology. Those are the kinds of marketing and messaging and media that they need to really help them. And it just makes sense. Yeah, I think it's what the web was built for, but no one's doing it, especially in medical. So I think it's a great. Opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. We originally had the active MD patient education program where we created all the content, like a TV show, put it on A DVD, and they used the DVD for the free information kit, so you could run a commercial, say, Hey, call now to get your free information kit with your DVD candid answers about plastic surgery or whatever. They run it in their waiting room, put it up on the video, up on their website and stuff like that. But that was all old school when we were delivering digitally something completely different. And now things proliferated in And I think social media is the key now. I think really it's all about social media marketing and getting content out there in social media that educates the potential patients. I love it. That's so smart. I've been told, and I think this is right, that there's two ways, there's two type of content you want to put out as a business. It's either entertaining or it's educational. And if you're not doing either one of those, then it's probably not landing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And there are some studies that show maybe you have to mix it up a little bit, education, entertainment, and maybe some cute stuff, endearing kind of stuff, pets, holidays, things like that, and mix it up in there. But I definitely believe in the educational cell, and I think that the educational still stands out. I think that even when, if you look at people's ads, if you took the name of the company away from that ad, would it look different than any other ad in that space? And I would say nine times out of 10, everybody's ads right now look exactly the same as everybody else's. The only difference is somebody else with another name. This is another name of the company. And I think that education cells is really about educating the prospect on why you're special different and unique, and how you can actually help them with their pain points and problems. Yeah. Kind of reminds me, Joe Polish, I'm not sure if you know who that is. He's like a marketing guy. He was a long time ago, now he's the founder of the Genius Network and he's really prolific. But back in the day he started, he was a carpet cleaner, and then he started a marketing company for carpet cleaners. And the big hook that he had was that he would have people call an 800 number to get, that would lead to a voicemail. And the voicemail message was, I'm going to send you a buyer's guide of carpet cleaning in the mail. Leave. Leave your address and we'll send this. It's a buyer's guide, effectively as a pamphlet That Talked about, here are the things you should know about hiring someone to clean your carpet. So it was educating the consumer about how to make better choices. Exactly. Exactly. And that's the monopolize your marketplace ideas. Rich Hor made that very popular back then. Most people don't do it. I would say that a lot of people, when I started doing that and I would go talk to clients, they didn't really understand what the hell I was talking about. They expected their ads to just look like everybody else's ads. They like to put things in there like established in 1958, been in business, an American owned company for 20 years, and these things are not differentiators. These things, nobody cares. Nobody cares if you've been in business for 50 years at the same location. People want to know how can you help them solve their problems and why they should give their money to you instead of your competitor. That's right. It's good stuff. It's good stuff. So how can I help you? How can I help you to further your purposes, my friend? What can we do? Well. This is a great opportunity for me to share some of the ideas and strategies that we've talked about today. So you've already been a big help to me. I love it. Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to talk about before we close today? Well, I'd love to offer, if it's okay with you, just you, the listeners can download the entire audio book today. Oh, wow. Of my book, anyone, not everyone, A Proven System to Escape Founder-led Sales. You can go to anyone, not everyone.com. You can go to my website and just start listening to it and get all of the value that's in this book. It's been endorsed by people like April Dunford, Benjamin, Dr. Benjamin Hardy, John Ruland, Aaron Ross. A lot of people have loved this book, and I've got over 75 5 star reviews on Amazon. I think it's really helping a lot of people. So if any of your listeners are stuck in this founder-led sales approach, or if anything is resonated with them, I encourage them to go check out the book right now. Feel free. Absolutely. Absolutely. And if they know anybody like that, please carry that message on. That's definitely, Hey, I am going to download the book today. I'm going to start listening to it. Please do. I want to hear more of what you have to say. Awesome. I love it. And Eddie, again, I appreciate you. You have me on the show. No, I appreciate you, man. It was really great. I was really looking forward to it, and let's keep chatting and maybe we do it again, maybe we do it again and get a little bit more deeper on some topic. Yeah, I would love that. Thank you. I would love that, bro. Thank you. You have a great night. Likewise. And good luck with everything. Thank you, man. Oh. I'll going to be in touch with you. Don't worry. Okay. Thanks Eddie. We'll see you.