Transform Your Future with Eddie Isin

The Automation Blueprint: Mastering Business Processes for Growth Ep51

• Season 1 • Episode 51

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Introduction
[00:00 - 01:30]
Eddie introduces Samuel Drauschak, process scientist, author, and co-founder of Truvle. They set the stage for a discussion on automation, process awareness, and their critical role in scaling businesses.

The Concept of Hive Consciousness in Business
[01:31 - 04:24]
Samuel shares his unique perspective on businesses as collective organisms, highlighting how shared missions and values shape organizational culture and decision-making.

The Importance of Process Awareness
[04:25 - 07:51]
The discussion dives into why process awareness is essential for training, system implementation, and business efficiency. Samuel explains how businesses can benefit from documenting and analyzing their processes.

Scaling Through Automation
[07:52 - 13:23]
Samuel explains how automation and delegation can help businesses reduce manual workloads, improve efficiency, and scale operations. He emphasizes the iterative nature of process improvement.

Introducing Truvle: Simplifying Process Mapping
[13:24 - 18:44]
Samuel introduces Truvle, a process mapping tool designed for businesses of all sizes. He describes how Truvle simplifies complex workflows, enabling organizations to quickly create structured processes.

Case Studies: Real-World Applications of Process Mapping
[18:45 - 22:53]
Samuel shares examples of how businesses have used process mapping to overcome challenges, improve efficiency, and successfully implement automation tools.

The Connection Between Process Awareness and AI Integration
[22:54 - 27:43]
The conversation shifts to AI and its reliance on accurate process data. Samuel discusses how businesses can effectively integrate AI by first understanding their existing workflows.

The Vision for Scaling and Automation
[27:44 - 31:43]
Samuel outlines the broader impact of automation and process mapping on business growth, including cost reduction, operational clarity, and improved decision-making.

Practical Advice for Entrepreneurs
[31:44 - 35:38]
Eddie and Samuel offer actionable tips for entrepreneurs on starting small with process mapping, identifying inefficiencies, and leveraging tools like Truvle to streamline operations.

Closing Thoughts and Key Takeaways
[35:39 - 38:00]
Samuel reflects on his journey and vision for Truvle, while Eddie recaps the episode's key insights on mastering automation and process mapping for business growth.

Resources

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Sam, welcome to the Transform Your Future Future podcast. How are you today, my friend? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Excellent. Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to spending this time with you and talking about Tru and talking about your book, how to Have a Conscious Business. So I'm very interested to talk about this stuff, hear what you have to say. Why don't you start us up and jump in about why you felt you needed to write this book. What was going on that led you to that and a little bit about that process? Sure. So I've been a process scientist for my whole career. I've been studying and learning about process management, process tools, things like that. And as I started to really push my work into the digital space and experiment and play with the new, there was just this overwhelming amount of concepts that I was touching on and integrating, and I really sat down to write this book, becoming Conscious Business first and foremost, to organize my thoughts in a cohesive way, really consolidate a lot of this knowledge and these observations I was seeing working in the field as a consultant. And I just felt like it was a story that I had to tell. So that's the motivation behind it. But as I was writing it, I was also learning a lot. So you're seeing a lot of my learning journey in terms of how am I seeing businesses become more conscious? How am I seeing people inside businesses as more of a living ecosystem and trying to write a lot of the parallels between natural systems and corporate systems. That's a lot of what the book is about. Can you expand a little bit about that, just that concept there? Let's unpack that a little bit. So business systems, personal systems, the consciousness. Can you unpack that a little bit? Yeah, of. Course. So sounds a little radical at first glance, but what I'm talking about is how businesses are conscious organisms, but not like, oh, they're becoming a robot or conscious like you and me. But if you look at let's say an ant colony, there's individual ants and then there's this hide consciousness. When you watch an ant colony, they coordinate and they're signaling and they're all almost like as if every individual is part of this collective consciousness. Businesses are very similar. So when a lot of humans get together and we self-organize towards a certain objective, we start showing the similar hive behavior. So this hive consciousness forms, and it's what allows us to grow these incredibly complex organizations that are very coordinated and we're doing a lot of great things. But the point there is there's a consciousness consciousness that starts to form, and that's a little bit more about what the book goes into, which is when you go to work, you're not just showing up as Eddie and leaving as Eddie. When you come in, you're becoming part of something bigger and it starts to change the way you think. You start to become part of that hive and that's a natural thing. It's not like some crazy thing that we should be afraid of, but it's a natural thing. So really commenting on the dynamics there, what that means. So an example of that, would that be, for example, the idea of you have a mission, you have certain values, we're working to fulfill that mission, and this is part of that overall consciousness of what we're doing and what the business is about? Yeah, exactly. And you start to take that mission on as part of your identity as part of your person. So the more invested you are in your work, the more time you spend with a single company or entity, you start to feel this loyalty, this affinity to your colleagues, this affinity to the mission. When you have choices to make, you start to think on behalf of the business, not just on behalf of yourself. We're not just a collector of selfish actors. Sometimes we are, and depending on our role and the way we think, I mean everyone is an individual, but this group think starts to form naturally. Just like if you joined any group that you really feel strongly about. If you're a part of a military organization or you're a part of a sports organization, it's this hive mentality that forms and you're not just looking out for yourself anymore, you're looking out for the organization. And sometimes that may seem silly. Let's say if I worked at a fast food restaurant, you may not feel like, well, do I really care about the mission of Wendy's or McDonald's or whatever it is. But you can't help it when you work with other people and everyone is working on behalf of the business. It's just you build this muscles and you start syncing up with your team. We do this for so many hours a day, it changes the way we think. We become part of this group consciousness. And obviously this is geared more towards what kind of companies, all companies. It's the same dynamics for all companies. It's a lot of the same mechanics of, it's a conversation about being aware, it's being aware that you are not just yourself in every context that we're in, it's very easy to change the way you think or subtly change the way you behave if you join a group and that group builds that behavioral instinct in you to work on behalf of the group. So we can't just always think that, oh, we're just ourselves everywhere all the time, and our thinking is our own. If you join a team, if you join a company, it doesn't matter what kind of company, you're going to start to be influenced by that group consciousness. And that's something that it's not a dangerous thing, but we have to be aware of it because it will change the way you think. You read these stories of corporate leaders that do all these messed up things and you think, oh, that person's just twisted. They're just corrupt and they're just evil. But imagine being the head of a several thousand person organization and you are driving the organization, there's all this energy coming up to your desk, you're the head of this giant organism. Sometimes it's very hard to just think on your own right? There's so much pressure and there's so many things coming at you. It's part of being in that group, that dynamic that's difficult to just cast aside. Yeah. Well, I guess originally what I was thinking about is I know a lot of the, there's a huge majority of people out there who are solo entrepreneurs, maybe entrepreneurs with a couple of people that they have on their team, and I'm just wondering how they can take advantage of the idea of business consciousness when they're have a smaller organization. I certainly understand what you mean by joining a bigger organization or having a bigger organization with a mission, but I guess we all need to have a mission in our business and a vision for what we're doing and where we're going and focus on that. And even in the smallest business, if it's not articulated, so you don't have to have a big mission statement. You hang above your door on a banner. If you behave consistently as a solopreneur, a mission and a vision are happening organically, whether you've stated them or not. And when you hire your first employee or you hire your first few contractors to help your small business, they're looking to you to mimic your behavior, mirror your behavior. They understand the mission and the values intuitively, whether you state them or not, as long as you're consistent in your behavior. And that's where a business consciousness is a baby, right? It starts to form, which is, it's just these ideas that people start coalescing around. They change their behavior, so they match the solopreneur behavior. The solopreneur is creating that culture and creating that business consciousness through their behavior, and then they decided to hire, and then they have biases in their first hires. So you can see how a culture starts to form naturally missions and visions start to form naturally, and then when you look at it in scaled organizations that are thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, it's a whole different ball game, but it all starts at the same place. Every business has this life cycle that it goes through. So as a solopreneur, you need to be very aware of the tone you're setting, just like if you were parenting right, everything your employees see, everything, your behavior, the way you treat them, the way you treat customers, the way you set the tone on your processes and your standards, this all builds into this business consciousness that eventually when you get big enough, you don't control anymore. It just gets out of your hands. Interesting, interesting. I like what you're talking about, how it naturally kind of forms from the choices you make, the people you bring on, the focus that you are having everybody focus on. I like that can. Well, okay, so when you wrote the book, you wanted to write it, it was part of your personal process that you were really trying to understand the overarching theme and organize your thoughts and directions. What can I get out of the book? What is there in there for me to help me to be more successful? I'm just assuming that in the end of the day, being more business conscious and understanding your going to help me to maybe hit goals faster or be able to make better decision processes. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, for sure. The book is more of a, let's say, cerebral sort of heady kind of intellectual journey practical self-help or building practical business skills. So I'll just caveat that. I mean, don't look to read my book If you're looking for, here's the next 10 best tips, so you be a better corporate employee because it's definitely, it wasn't written that way. Like I said, it was more for self discovery, but I'll say it's the central theme of it. We talk about the consciousness, but it's really a lot about process. It's about how process and learning better process skills built this awareness of all these social and cultural dynamics and these consciousness dynamics. So I definitely think if you're looking to read a book where there's an intersection of how do I become more personally grounded and mentally aware and conscious, how do I build better process skills and then how do I apply that in the business setting? I'd say the biggest thing you're going to get out of my book is just this general awareness, more awareness of what's going on. I think the more awareness you have of what's going on, the more accurately you can navigate your environment. But that's a very broad statement. It's not going to give you a set of concrete tools, so I don't want to mislead anyone. Very good. Very well, and I understand that you have your company approval and can we just talk about that for a minute and then I want you to maybe give me a case study? Of course. So Truvla is a process science tools company, and specifically we just released our first tool around process mapping. And this is all related. I know it maybe aren't sound like it's all over the place, but for businesses small or large, the thing that a lot of businesses are struggling with is getting good quality process data. And when I say process data, I mean how do you describe the actual operations of your business? What are the processes of your business that make it run and how do I write them down? So if I'm a solopreneur, I think a lot of people, they feel this first. When I hire my first person, let's say I'm growing, my business is going well and I want to hire my first person. How do you train that person? How do you tell them what the processes of your business are so that they can understand and they can support you? That's where first people most run into this awareness that, oh, I might have a process issue because they either have to shadow them or they're training them by just by hand. Every day is just something different. It becomes a very difficult process. You want to go write the process. Or another. Popular way, just to interrupt you a second, another popular way is they have almost an internship program. So you have somebody and you start here and you're going to learn this, and then you go up to the next process and learn that until you're a master or whatever. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, especially in other use cases, if you want to buy a new system, this is a big one, you want to buy your next best SaaS product and you're like, oh, this is going to help me automate and do all these great things in my business, but then putting it in play is a lot harder and you think, oh, they sold me. This is crap. This doesn't work for my business. But that's actually fundamentally a process problem. You don't understand your own process enough to configure systems and tools to help you properly, correct. Yes. So a lot of the work we do is just helping people write down what is that? What is data? You need that process data so that you can start working with it. And this comes back to just giving people better tools. So that's what true does. That's what true is all about. And like you said, I gave some of those use cases and the examples, but you need it for a lot of things. Training, delegating, communicating vendors, configuring new systems, looking for process improvement opportunities. It all starts with knowing what your process is, and that's becoming a lot more tricky than people think, especially in the digital world where we might be don't have offices working with contractors all around the world. I asked you, well, tell me what the process is day to day. How do you answer that question? You've got to be able to write it down, you've got to be able to map it somehow, and that's what we help with people with that true goal. And I do understand there's other tools that people have used to do that mind maps and mapping tools and boy it'ss like becomes complicated and weird. So I know that that's an important part of what you're doing is you are making it so that it's simple to map out these processes. That's. Exactly right. Yep. You're selling it for me, it's not an open canvas. It has a language, it has an opinion, and that's coming from all of our expertise for the last 15, 30 years collectively with my co-founders in the field doing process management work. So we tell you what is the right way to write down process information. We create tools, so it's easier to do, especially if you're in a live session because a lot of times people know how to do it on a whiteboard, but if you're doing it in a Zoom meeting, all those other tools are hard to use because they're just open. There's just infinite flexibility and it's tough to do that live. So we're creating a tool that has an opinion. It's built for live use in virtual conferencing, and it's meant to get you from having a conversation about process to having finished process documents very quickly. That's the problem we're trying to solve. Interesting. Almost like you can workshop the whole thing, whole thing, and then at the end of the workshop you have everything taken care of. Correct. Our goal is to auto format with a button so it creates swim lanes, it creates all the things you're looking for and hopefully from meeting to publishing maybe like 10 or 15 minutes versus several hours today for most people using other tools. So tell me about some case studies that you've had with individual companies. You could pick whatever you want, if it was a solopreneur or a medium-sized business or whatever, a small business or an enterprise business. Sure. I'll pick that technology use case, which is actually the biggest one nowadays, and that's, I've done it in the last six months for small, medium and enterpriseable clients, which is, let's say we want a new project management system and some of the big ones are Asana monday.com. I want to use Notion, I want to use MS project, I want to use Smartsheet because I need to manage my projects better because I've got multiple people, I don't know what they're doing. There's tasks all over the place. A lot of people either tried to buy it and do it themselves or it was too big at the enterprise level and they needed a consultant to do it for them beforehand. But the first step is always they have to map their own processes first and what systems they're using first because you're not going to be able to get your people from one place to another if you don't know where you are today. So a lot of the use cases we have to go in and we have to write down accurately their processes today and how they're working together today. Even if people say, well crap, don't care. We're working. Get me in the new system. You can't get into a new system if you don't understand the process that you're operating for today. You're just going to break it and it's going to be a painful process. So a lot of our use cases look like that, where we'll write it all down for clients or now with the tool, they could write it down themselves a lot easier and we can just spot check or they can spot check once they're practice and then you can give that to your technology vendor on the first day you hire somebody from Asana or a technical consultant or if you're a solopreneur, you just want to buy it yourself. You have to be able to understand how to configure it, and this is what we help people. Interesting. I could see that being very valuable to help focus on, like you were saying, I have automation tools and AI that I use that I have other people, clients who use it, and definitely this is always an issue of how to adapt what you're doing and how you're doing things to make the tool make it more productive for you rather than slowing you down. That's exactly right. And a lot of people try to glance over that piece that you just said, which is, well, what is it that you're doing? And they say, oh, they'll have a quick conversation about why I do this and I do this and I do this, and everyone says, oh great, but it's hard to write that down and then it becomes different every time you hear it because process data is like that. It's very complex. You're describing people working in reality, multiple people working together on multiple systems in different sequences. It's hard data to keep in your head. You could hear it one time in a 30 minute or hour meeting, but then everyone goes off that meeting if you don't write it down with a different impression, and that's where the project starts to go off the rails. So it's exactly the situation you're talking about where, what is it that you're doing? If you don't have that on paper, all this work becomes very difficult. Yes, it's been a struggle for me actually in this area. So I'm really getting into what you're saying because taking my process of certain parts of our business that we want to just structure in such a way that somebody can take that seat to do it and take care of that responsibility, but do it in the same way. It's not an easy process to spec that out and break it down in some fashion that makes it simple for somebody to take that and get the same result. Instead, sometimes I find I create convoluted documents that have so much information in it that people have to read a 10 page document and really compress and understand it and study it and ask 50 questions before they can actually do it the way that I do it, so to speak. And you just described it beautifully. You just put it right on the nose. This is what most people struggle with at one point or another for various use cases in every business. There's no way to avoid this problem you're talking about. It's a hard one to get your head around at first, but like you said, you know need to describe a process to someone and you start in whatever way is the most comfortable for you. I could be writing down a Word document, start in Excel who pages and you're like, it got too complicated. And people can't absorb that information that way. They can't read a document that's even four or five pages long and get it that way. Process has to be shown visually if people are going to understand it quickly because it's just too much density, like you said, of information. What if it goes A or B? Once you start to write that in a Word document, you lose it. It's just so hard for people to get it that way. So let's say I tell you, you've got to draw your process data out If you want to do that next time, Eddie, you've got to draw it on a process picture, but now you've got a whole suite of other problems. You don't know how to do process diagramming, you've never done it. You could pick up a Miro or a Visio or all these blank canvases. Then you've got to make it all up from scratch. It's very intimidating. It's a high learning curve. So that's the problem we're trying to tackle, which is you need to write process data down for something or someone. Let me give you a tool that makes it easy, makes it fast. You can do it live with people digitally. That's the problem we're trying to solve. It's giving you your process voice so you can solve. A whole host of, so it's almost like there's some standards like here's some standards for you and you could use this one and make it customize it to you, or you could use this one, right? Something like that. Yeah, it's a standard processed language. That's the easiest way to describe it. So you're not coming up with the shapes, the colors, the conventions, the type of data, the detail level of data that's all suggested for you the option to customize it. It's a very robust language. You don't need a lot of options if you're trying to describe most process data to people. So it's actually more here, use this out of the box and play with it and do it and it will make, and because it's so structured, we were able to design the interface so it's a lot faster and also easier to use because there doesn't have to be a lot of optionality. So we're kind of coming to market with not a ton of customization, but the exact opposite. A lot of here's what it is, but because we're there, you get all this other benefit of it's faster, it's easier to use. It has a simpler interface and the data is more structured. So you can output, imagine you write one of your 10 page process doc, the one that you're thinking in your mind, imagine if you could automatically hit a button and it will say, well, this is how much percentage of that is actually done in email versus Slack versus other system. Here's how much of it is done by this role versus that role. Let me print out an actual roll car that shows it in a different view. That's all possible when you have the data more structured. And that's kind of what we're hoping to provide businesses. Interesting. Well, you've used the term data a lot. Can you just expand about what data and maybe is there certain data that I need to look at or that I need to understand and bring this data with me? So it's a great question. And I use the term process data. When we think data, a lot of us are trying to think numbers. It's not numbers in this case, it can be numbers, but process data is any data set that helps you understand how a process is operating in reality data to analyze your efficiency, analyze where there's waste, where there's room to optimize your operating model, things like that. But it could literally, that dataset could be a story. So your 10 page document that you wrote down to describe how something is done to somebody else, that is 10 pages of process data, and that's what I'm referring to. It's Like if you were going to consume, somebody else was going to consume that data, your intention was that the outcome of that data is they learn a new process, they understand how to do something combining their capability with tools in sequence, in a particular context to produce a business result. That's a data exchange. So people don't think about it that way, but that's what I'm referring to. It's any dataset that is meant to describe in a high quality level a process scenario for the purpose of like you said, training, configuration, mostly communication. Interesting. Who's the market that this is really built for? Who's your target market for Tru? So our target market. Initially is we're looking for business analysts, project managers, process engineers, lean process facilitators, people who are doing this on a very frequent basis them more utility for the tool. But my ultimate customers, everyone, which is a terrible marketing answer, my marketing people are always like, you can't say everyone. That's not a market, but everyone needs this in one way or another and small businesses and medium businesses can benefit from this type of thing in a host of ways. I want to It's. Quite affordable as well. Yeah, I mean for individuals, I mean we're basically keeping it away for free. I mean it's really for enterprises, there's a lot more complexity, but for a small business, that was the whole thing. At small business, we can't hire consultants, we can't afford consultants. Nobody brings in a process person to map all their business and give them strategic advise. That's just not an option. We're hoping this tool becomes that digital consultant for most businesses. But like you said, the original customer, people who do process mapping all the time, business people, business analysts, project people, technology people, SaaS people, that's who we're talking to first to get this out the gate at least. I love it. I mean so much of the world, when I built the software company that I built and we launched the software using the scrum method and just repeatedly doing Scrum until I went out and spoke to people about whatever the idea was and it got traction. If I couldn't get traction talking to people, nobody was interested, then I just threw it to the side and I went and we went back to the process Friday night to create something again. But anyway, when we created that, absolutely we needed help. We needed to organize things and it was very difficult breaking all that down and making it all work together. And I really see something like this would've really helped me at that time especially, but I see that it could help me today as well. What I'm trying to say is data is so very important and that I was working with back then in 2011, these guys didn't understand the value of the data. I think today when we talk about data, people understand the value of the data. They understand that knowing people's behaviors and the things that they're doing and what they're interested in, the values that they have, this is actionable data to help us move forward, forward, better connect to our customers and our client base. We understand that on so many levels and process data is also within that, although it's not maybe numbers like you're saying. Again, we live in a data-driven world and the more data that I can get at a high level to help me to decide go left or and how to structure something, maybe this data's going to inform me to structure it a completely different way than the way I was doing it. So I think it's important and I think it's great that it's an easily affordable thing that everybody could just sign up and take advantage of it and see how it informs your process and see how you can use it to better your processes. Yeah, I totally agree, and like you said, in a data-driven world where most people are trained now to look for the data, you're also looking for consistent and accurate data, and most people ask for this high level process data. It's the context. If you say, Hey, I want to know how many times this person clicks or I want to know how many impressions I have, basic marketing data, the process data is the context that makes that make any sense. Let's pull, what does your website flow look like? How many customers are actually engaging with you and why? That's process data. It sits on everything and we're asking for it every day and we just don't know we're asking for it, and we normalize the fact that process data is usually crap. It's just like we have, Hey, what are you doing here? You tell me. No one writes it down. It's always inaccurate, it's never FactCheck, and then you just go off and do other work. It's a huge problem for everybody, and that's what we're talking about. So I like the way you articulated it because people want better process data. They actually just don't know how to ask for it. Or like you said, they don't want to hire some expert to come in and go through everything and do it because maybe it's cost prohibitive at this time, and so you say, well, we'll do that later. When we make a million dollars a year, then we can afford to pay somebody$20,000 to reevaluate everything and help us do things. So there's a real need. I think there's a real window there for a need for a lot of people, and you really fit it. I think that's awesome. We need to get the word out about that. Absolutely. Yep. I appreciate that. That's what I think too. Marketing is kind of my weak spot, so that's where I'm excited to get the tool out there, but it's like you say, it takes us 10 or 15 minutes to talk and say, oh, now I get it. Now I know exactly what you're. Targeting. I need to get better at that conversation. Faster is definitely an opportunity for us. Yeah, yeah. And obviously I would say in my experience for 20 years I did marketing and advertising for small to medium sized businesses basically and had a certain model and certain types of clients that we only worked with. But interestingly enough, a lot of times what happens is, and I'm a victim of it as well, excuse me, let me back up a second. It happens to me too. So sometimes you're so in it and you understand it from your level and your way that it's very difficult for you to turn that around and make it in a marketing kind of messaging because I'm so stuck in it, and it does help to have somebody outside create that because I'm in it every day and I have my judgment about everything. Well, there's no question about that, especially when you're a doctor or a lawyer or somebody who's highly technical and have technical skills. This is actually always a big issue in the world. Technical people want to explain things in a technical way. When you're marketing people, it doesn't resonate unless they specifically, you're talking about some specific thing that this specific moment, I need that technology, but I love it. I love it. So tell me a little bit about how you ended up here with Truvla. I understand you're been doing this for a long time. What was the reasoning for, what was the thing that was the impetus of all this that got you thinking, we need to make this a business and we need to get clients? What was that? Yeah, for sure. It's a pretty easy arc actually. So I started my career in, like I said, low level process engineering, and I really loved, I just fell in love with the subject matter expertise and I just kept pushing it. I joined a consultancy for a number of years and I said, I still feel stifled. They're asking me to do it this way. I think there's opportunity to do it another way, a better way. I wanted to experiment. I wanted to get out there and do my client work with new methods, new process work, sort of this trippy stuff that I've been talking about, and there's different ways that organizations function. I think I can map it out and I can help clients understand. So I started my own consulting brand that was about eight years ago now. So I also can consulting in the field and under my own brand and building a small consultancy, and then after all that time philosophically, you reach a point with a consultancy where if I want to help more people, do I want to scale a consultancy? But that comes with its own problems because they bring on more consultants and you're diluting the knowledge and then you're creating also this, I think conflict structure, which we don't have to go into, which is I don't want to grow this consultancy basically. So I wanted to take this knowledge and scale it. So that's what was the to a software company. I want to take the success we've had in the field and I want to make it more accessible so that other people can get it and they can get it the right way, and they can also empower process capability within organizations. So just two years ago, we decided consulting company will stay small and contracted and we'll move our knowledge into software and automation, and that's why we're here. Excellent. So how's it been going? It's tough. It's tough work. It's a real different kind of business to start a software business, so I'm not going to mince words there. We've learned a lot and we're still learning and we're product market fit, but it's been a great journey. The software looks great. I think we're ready to help people, and that's what it's about in my mind. So I think it's been a fun journey. I hope we can find a lot of customers and we can blow this thing up and that's where we're at. That's great. That's great. And obviously you've got a team of people helping and informing. You already mentioned that you have marketing people with marketing expertise, trying to inform how you do things, and I'm sure they're probably doing the common thing that everybody talks about niching down and focusing on an area and things like that. But I see the dilemma that this actually is such a wide net that there's so many people who can benefit from this in their businesses. So that's an interesting dilemma. Actually. It's been our toughest problem to solve as a business, a young business, honestly, which is that everyone does it, but some people do it maybe once a month. Some people run into this problem once a quarter and some every week and every day. But how do you segment the market to find those customer targets? They have different roles, they have different names, they have different functions in their companies. It's in a way, is becoming a much bigger need because we're digitizing rapidly and everything's changing faster. The nature of the market is evolving so that if you don't have good process skills, people are struggling, but they also still, it's a new problem. So people don't really know how to articulate it. They don't know how to ask for the right help. They don't know how to ask for the right tools. So in a way, it's a big opportunity, but that piece, the communication, the translation of the problem and the need, it's a very challenging marketing problem for us, certainly. Interesting, interesting. So I want to talk a little bit about, just going down a little bit deeper here, this idea, would you say this is a disruptive idea? I would because it's disruptive in the sense in two ways. One, it could very heavily disrupt the consulting market we're basically the closest alternative to what we're trying to build is hiring a consultant, which is a whole different experience, and there's a lot of market share there that no one's really going after. It's automating consulting in a way. So that could be disrupted in that sense. The other type of disruption is if the cost of doing this kind of process work goes down significantly, you're going to see a lot more high quality process data created, and that's really what we're needing for all this automation and AI driven work that people are talking about. So in a lot of ways, people are really excited. AI is the hot topic, right? Better automation, better ai, better robotics. They want to get it and they want to get into their businesses, but there's a process problem there because it's actually work if you want to do it correctly. Otherwise, it's just edge cases and gimmicks and marketing. The AI is just doing stuff on the edges. It's like every company, everybody out there, they all have to use the word ai. They have to release content about ai, they have to be talking about ai. I'm going to give you 500 AI tools. I'm going to give you a thousand AI prompts. It's crazy. Yeah. It's the fad. And just like all fads, we had big data. We had the first wave of automation. There was all the software solutions. People did the same thing. It's the right idea. We're going to get there eventually. But what's stopping it for really exploding is we just muscles. We don't have good process tools. We can't actually go from, Hey, today we're working by email and spreadsheets and chat, and we're pretending to use all these complex tools, but it's really still people holding most big businesses together in the background. Nobody wants to talk about that. They don't want to do the process work that's needed to really automate some of these processes the right way. So we're hoping that we can also help with disruption because if people had better process data, they can make better decisions. We should see these projects moving faster. We should see a lot more actual inclusion of new technology into your operating models. So I really truly believe if we build more process muscle around the market, it could be revolutionary in the sense that we'll start moving much faster and the outcomes could be significant, or at least that's my dream. Yes, process. I dunno, a couple of years ago, I mean I've been involved in AI since 20 15, 20 16 when it wasn't called that really. It was about machine learning and About making data decisions and understanding the trends within the data. So it's interesting how it's evolved right now to this thing, which is a little strange talking about it as if it's an entity of itself, and I think you're right about that is that it doesn't actually function well without being curated. You need somebody to curate that to get the results that you want. You can't just press a button and walk away and everything just magically happens. But I've seen really good use cases over the last 10 years of people using it to save time in their business, being able to answer frequently asked questions easily. So there is a benefit, but I think there needs to be a human checking everything. You know what I mean? It's weird when you get into these things where you go to support and you're talking to an AI for 15 minutes trying to find answer to what you, it's like annoying. If the AI can't help me in a minute, I think a human being needs to sit in and get involved right away to try to help. So without that human element, and I agree it doesn't really function the way we want it to function, but what other kind of processes around that? Can we break down maybe an individual process that has to do with that? Are we talking about what is my process for how I'm using an AI software to get a certain result of what I want? Is that an example of what we're talking about? Yeah, it would be more not like how am I using the software to get what I want, but analyzing a process and then properly being able to identify what you could get software or AI or other forms of automation to handle. So what I always tell clients, especially let's say we map your process, and I'll just use you as an example. I map you have a process that you spend most of your time on, let's say four or five hours a day. You're engaged in this process. Maybe it's a sales process, maybe it's this or that. Write it down first and then if you want to automate it, automation doesn't necessarily even need to include machinery. You could automate some of your process by delegating it down to a junior person, junior person. You're just driving the cost of decision making down. That's the heart of automation. So in order to do that properly, first I would write down all of your process and you need to be able to look at it because then you can say in a structured way, well, this could be pushed down to another person. This could even further be pushed down to a machine. This could be pushed down to ai, generative chatbot or learning, but your goal is you're just pushing everything down as much as you can, but it still all has to make sense, and at the end of that process, it has to be the same process. That's the process that drives your business. That's the process with the outcome that your customers expect. So if you can't analyze the process first, it's a crapshoot, right? It's like I'm going to just pick a random thing that I want the AI to do. How does it fit into what you're doing today? How does it fit into the customer experience? How does, this can be a very scientific process. Businesses around the world could just write down what they do, analyze the process properly and go through this structured way of thinking about it. But that's sort of the thing. It's more how do I analyze and identify the right delegation parts of my business to push down the machines? If you do that, then the likelihood of it succeeding is way higher. That's what we're talking about. And I like that. I like that. And I just want to say I'm sorry about my voice today. I did a rookie move yesterday and I hung out at the beach all day and slept on the beach for a few hours and I didn't drink enough liquid. So today my vocal chords are a little dehydrated, so I apologize. But for a guy who makes his livelihood from speaking, it's like an important thing that I didn't take care of yesterday, but one of the ways that I do that, and just again, trying to put this all together to make sense, one of the ways I do that is I track what I actually do and then I look at it and I say, some of these things are just a waste of time. I'm doing something and there's no result. It's just wasting my time. I'm not really actually moving the needle anyway. I want to eliminate those things. And then there are things that I think are valuable, but I don't like doing them. I just don't really enjoy doing those things. So then I want to get somebody else to do those things for me. I don't want to spend my time doing it. I have a certain skillset and I need to just be using that certain skillset, my talents and my skills and work on that and deal with that, not waste my time on these other functions that are not my forte. I don't want to be that thing. Something simple like editing videos. I can edit videos. I mean, I have a 30 year career running a multimedia production company. I was an editor for many years when I was younger, but I don't want to do that. That's not where I want to spend my time today. That's not really my forte. My forte is somewhere else. So I want to get somebody else to do those things for me so I don't have to spend whatever it is, 10 hours a week, 20 hours a week, whatever it is, doing that. I see. Yeah, go ahead. Jump. I was going to say it's interesting what you just described, your business intelligence that you've curated, you just almost perfectly described the process improvement lifecycle. And that's the thing, right? When you said, I look at what I'm doing, you're writing down your process and you're analyzing the as is process. When you look for waste and you look for opportunities for delegation, that's called process analysis. You're analyzing your process to understand what are my delegation removal. And when you change the process based on those insights, you're doing process design and then you land in a two B or a future state process, and then you just loop that iteratively for your business forever. So the way you described it, you described it in just terms that just made sense from your own business experience. That's the heart of process management. You got to know what it is first. You've got to be able to analyze it and look for the opportunities and look for the structure and look for the things that can move and change. Then you have to implement those changes, and then it just goes on and goes on. So it's just kind of what did you have to do in your career to understand that intuitively, how can we bring younger people and younger people to get those knowledge and get that experience without having to go through 30 years in their own business? Understanding how to delegate, understanding how to automate, that's sort of the process game that we're talking about. Wow, that's deep. That's actually really deep because I think I have, it's an interesting journey for me that I was on, and as it informed me, I ended up changing everything because I wanted freedom. I didn't want to feel like I had a job because in the beginning when I created my business, really all it was was a high paying job and everybody wanted to work with me. I had to talk to everybody. The reason that people did business with us was because of me and everybody wanted me to work on their projects, and at some point I'm like, this is not a business. This is a big headache for me to have a job. So I started changing things and I started systematizing stuff. I guess another word for process would be systems and I created some systems, so I had a concept and then a system, so I didn't have to do anything anymore. I could be free to do some high level stuff and do the creative thinking that was necessary to create the opportunities, which led me to creating residual income. I just decided what the best thing would be to do is just do this work to create residual income and then just live off my residual income instead of trying to be a worker, so to speak. Right? Yeah. That's the journey of what do we, I'd condense that whole story that's scaling through automation. That's what you're doing. That's what everyone wants, right? Well, everyone wants the free time. And if I would understand these things back then in 2019, 99, 98 and moving on, if I were to understand some of these ideas better, then I would've been able to do it faster and get to that lifestyle. For me, it's a lot about freedom and lifestyle. I want to be free to live the lifestyle. I want to spend my time with the things that are really important to me and be free to travel. That's like a big thing for me. I have to be able to travel and go back and forth, stay in other countries, which is my passion, and hang out and learn things and meet people. So I love it. I think it's great. So we've talked about a lot of stuff. I'm going to join. I'm going to join and look at the tool and see how it can help it for me today and save me some time in the process of breaking some things down. So that's really good and valuable to me. I appreciate that. Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about? No. I can talk about process all day, every day, so there's a million things to talk about, but I think we've covered a lot. So I'm glad that you helped me. You invited me to the conversation. Excellent. Listen, we're going to keep in touch with you. We'll go back and forth. I think you have a lot of knowledge that would be, it's rather unique. It's not like the same old crap that 50,000 people are saying. It's something unique in there, a unique message, and I think that's awesome. And so I'll be in touch and we'll see. Moral will be revealed. We see where we go. Thanks so much. Thank you for having me, brother.