Ep 8: What It Means to Be a Disruptor of Change - Navigating the Nonprofit Sector (Part 2)

What happens when your career no longer feels safe or aligned? In this powerful and deeply honest conversation, I sit down with a nonprofit leader-turned-consultant, Esther Saehyun Lee, founder of Elevate Philanthropy Consulting who shares what led her to walk away from the traditional 9-to-5 and start her own business rooted in justice, equity, authenticity, and community.

We explore the terrifying and liberating shift to entrepreneurship and the risks embedded in both institutional work and self-employment. Esther opens up about the harm she experienced in previous roles and how that shaped her decision to start her consultancy firm. We also reflect on the power of community and mentorship—and how it's possible to build a profitable, successful business without compromising your values.

From building a business that centers community, to navigating the industrial complex of the nonprofit sector, to staying creative through rest and nature—this episode is a masterclass in disrupting the status quo and staying grounded while doing it. We also dive into:

• Why being your authentic self at work is non-negotiable
• The myth of overnight success and the realities of starting your own business
• Community-centric fundraising and justice-forward leadership
• What it means to be a disruptor in systems not built for you

Whether you’re thinking about striking out on your own or simply dreaming of work that reflects your values—this one’s for you. It’s raw, real, and a reminder that you don’t have to do it alone.

Esther Essay can be read here:

You’re not feeling imposter syndrome, you are an imposter: Identity and belonging in nonprofit work

Transcript

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Hashtag FEMPIRE Let me ask you, what happens when your career stops feeling aligned with who you are? It's a tough place to be in. And if you've ever thought about making a change, you know it can be terrifying too. Today, I'm excited to share a powerful conversation, part two. With Esther Saehyun Lee, a non-profit leader who made the leap into entrepreneurship by launching her own consulting firm, Elevate Philanthropy Consulting. Esther built her business around her core values of justice, equity, authenticity, and community. We dive into the challenges of transitioning from a nine to five to entrepreneurship, the risks in both traditional roles and self-employment, and how tough experiences fueled her decision to create something new. Esther also shares how community and mentorship can support you

00:00:55 Unknown: through the journey and how it's possible to build a successful business without compromising your core values. We also cover what it really means to be a disruptor in systems that weren't necessarily built for you. So whether you're actively thinking about making a career leap, incorporating activism into your work, Or even just dreaming of finding work that feels more like you, this episode is for you. It's raw, it's real, and it's such a good reminder that you don't have to figure it out alone. Let's dive in with Esther.

00:01:37 Unknown: you have started your own business and consulting. Yes. how did you realize that starting your own business was your avenue and, still want to stay connected to the sector? What was that shift for you? Because it's scary to start your own business, but you've done it and you're, thriving Yeah, it's a great question. I think for me, the idea of when I went through the experience of enduring racism and harm, I couldn't take the idea of doing that again at another organization. when I was looking at jobs, I actually got really scared because Actually, the more vocal and values aligned they seemed, I was like, what if this happens again where at first it was great leadership, at first it was a great work environment, and then there was a leadership change, or there was a staffing change, and then It just all fell apart so quickly. and I realized there's no way I could predict that. I couldn't know if my manager was going to be maybe good for the first three months and then turn out that we're not values aligned. And I didn't know what indicators to look for. My friend actually, Maria Rio, she was the one that said, just join me, we'll share clients together and if it all goes terribly, we'll just both find another job. And I think that was exactly what I needed to hear, which is, if it all goes terribly, I'll just go back and find another job. And yeah, that was really it. But starting my consultancy, standing on my own two feet, again, All of it's terrifying all the time, but that actually kind of fits with everything I do really, which is kind of just forging ahead and just making sure fear is not the prime motivator. but I had this moment the other day where I was like all the clients that I've signed on to Elevate have been women of color Executive directors with organizations oriented towards justice and that was kind of a moment of affirmation and reassurance that like this is the kind of work I want to do and I'm doing it and I'm doing it with people That are aligned with me and my values and that's been really amazing. The work of entrepreneurship and consulting and, you know, all of the things that are involved in this is always terrifying to me, but. These moments or glimmers, they kind of show me what's possible in a nonprofit career. Like when I came in, every single woman of color, it still happens, has a horror story about working in nonprofit. And I'm not saying that consulting is like the panacea to everything. but I think it, for me at least, and in this moment in my life, it's given me the distance and autonomy to be able to Reimagine what a career in this space can look like where I'm more in control and I'm able to be vocal about my values and have people find me for that instead of being told that it's just a risk and that this will actually hurt my career. Don't listen to the haters. It's exactly. Like it's paying off. Like I can imagine it's stressful, but you're doing it for yourself. You're doing it for the good and you're your own boss. And I've also dabbled into the entrepreneurial space before starting my podcast. I always say you do the grind for yourself and it's so rewarding because you're the one pushing through. You're doing the crazy long hours, but it's for yourself. It's not for somebody else at the end of the day. but again, it comes to that autonomy piece, that fearlessness, that risk, that's really, the focal point of our conversation. Yes. It has become the underpinning themes, right? I have to say being a consultant versus being in a house, the one interesting thing I'll say is because I represent myself and my business. It gives me a little bit more openness to tell directors or tell my clients exactly how I feel or how my approach is. And that's been a very interesting plus out of all this is. It's different when you represent in house you're representing an institution and a brand and possibly reputation of organizations that have been here decades, possibly centuries, but when I represent myself. I know the risk I carry and I can carry that on my own and that has allowed me to have Some of the most honest conversations with clients, donors, everyone really. And that just allows me to be my most authentic self and building a business or having a career in any form where I can be my most authentic self. Is really the end game for me. It's never really been about, making a certain amount of money or et cetera. It's always been, can I just really be myself? Not worry about it. And that's a hard journey, but this feels closer to it right now. Absolutely and I'm so glad you were able to cultivate that and it's really interesting too focus in on what you're passionate about, you can still do that and make money and do good. because I think for a long time it's been a boys club but being able to have these spaces and again the importance of community is just it's so inspiring and I just love seeing it and and I'm so honored to be able to just like. Pick your brains it's like a master class. I want to push these boundaries. I want to do what's meant for me and balancing that you can make money, but also lead with your passion and your heart and all these other things. I do want to, and I'm guilty of this too, and I'm trying to be very careful of that. Don't want to romanticize entrepreneurship or consulting. it's really tough in nonprofit, especially because I do think the way, especially small nonprofits are structured for fundraisers, it's usually one sole fundraiser that's woefully undercompensated. The idea of consulting is very attractive for many reasons, but I don't want to romanticize it at all. I actually, I wish I could find the name. someone wrote on LinkedIn and it happened on my feed and I don't know who it was. And if someone knows, please tell me. They said being in house is stable until it isn't and being an entrepreneur is unstable until it's not. Choose your own adventure. I think if you're in house and you need that stability for a multitude of reasons and entrepreneurship is not an option, then you got to do what you got to do and entrepreneurship works for you and you can make it work and you're okay with like the ongoing. Um, then good, we can do it, but I think my whole point is no matter what, I think We all need to figure out a way to make work that we can be our authentic selves and it might be a combo of the two But I think it's just that vision like that's what we have to work towards. We have to be able to work towards. Knowing that we can go to our workplace and be ourselves and not be harmed for it. And I wish that for everybody. Yeah. Absolutely, and 100% agree. It's not a romanticized thing. it's not easy. It's not for the faint of heart. And There's the consequences of it, but it's that risk aversiveness. There's also timing is a huge thing. Like maybe you want to do this, but right now it's not the timing, whether it's financial, whether it's emotional, your head capacity, but you got to put the time in. And you gotta hustle is really what it comes to at the end of the day. And not everybody has a stomach for it and that's okay. on one of my other podcast episodes, we talked about this like hustle culture and This illusion that you can make money overnight and that's not the reality in any sense when it comes to businesses or promoting yourself or promoting whatever that niche is that you're doing. But it comes to putting in the work and sometimes that's balancing a full time job and doing this on the weekends, until it grows into something. So I would never prescribe a journey for anyone. And I love your story about entrepreneurship, I think. It's just a hard conversation in nonprofit because it's becoming more and more popular. So it's a tough conversation to have, but yeah, there's risk in both. That's the unfortunate truth of it all is. There's so much risk in both risk of harm risk of harm to your livelihood risk to yourself and it's just something that everybody has to process on their own, unfortunately, but at least you can have a community of people like for me. The community of activists that I'm with have actually taught me a lot about risk and justice and keeping myself grounded and that's been immensely helpful for my business. like when we talk about. The business of it all and we're talking about extraction and we're talking about wealth and power and trying to ask these questions while I myself and trying to launch a business in a capitalist land. In a capitalist context, it's really complicated, tense questions that I don't always have answers to, but the community of folks that I've surrounded myself very intentionally helped me pose these questions and helped me ground my entrepreneurship in a justice lens. I do hope everybody has that sort of community, whatever context you're in. Well said. And, as we're talking about community and these many different pieces, when it comes to, people fundraising or non for profit professionals. Who want to embed these elements of justice and, providing more of a platform for other people's voices throughout their, work and, what they're doing. What's one piece of advice you'd offer them. To be able to weave in these pieces. The one piece I would say is understand that critical distance, developing the ability to have a critical distance is a muscle you have to exercise. The way our sector is, and I'm thinking specifically about even fundraising, it's a vicious cycle of scarcity and urgency there's such a plethora of issues that we're all trying to figure out with basically pennies. no staff, no money, no support really. Constantly being told everything is precarious and uncertain, having to try to navigate politics while you do it. The host of barriers to us achieving the missions that we want is, it's never ending, if I'm honest. The context of that actually really is counter to what will solve it, which is this idea of abundance or this idea of community or this idea of we have enough right now to solve this. We have enough materials in the world. We have enough wealth in the world to, solve this. I always say it's so fascinating to me because for me, the nonprofit sector, like our greatest output is actually our imagination. I never met more innovative, creative folks who also are grounded towards building like a world that actually takes care of each other than in the nonprofit sector. But we don't cultivate that imagination at all. we're always under the gun to make a certain amount of money, serve amount of people, make sure our funders are good, our donors are good. It's actually counter to what we do best. So that's always my question, even in my business practices, I'm like, how am I cultivating the space or creating the conditions for me to be my most imaginative? Because that's actually what people want me to do. As a fundraiser, that's, when we're actually our best. Like, I'll come into meetings program directors and say, what's your blue sky? Or I'll come into an organization and be like, what's the thing that like, if you had all the money in the world, what would change tomorrow? Those are the questions that fundraisers are actually supposed to ask. we're supposed to ask this so that we know what to build towards and to share that vision with the community. But when you're constantly scared and Just straight up terrified really like hitting your goal or making enough to let your staff are paid that you have enough money for the operations to continue. When are we able to do that? And when are we able to imagine or innovate new solutions? Good points. And, you know, what comes to mind is I heard, Duncan Wardle speak. I'm not sure if you know who he is, but he was previously the head of innovation and creativity at Disney. And in his kind of speech lecture, one of the questions he poses, why do adults stop being creative and the exercise he did, he made us all write down the big concerns is money, time, you know, I'm exhausted, all these things. And then he shifted it and he's like, well, kids don't have money, but they're creative. It's like such a wild piece and he went even further to say he went into some slums in India and there they had a mission where they had to create light without any electricity. And he talks about how the innovation in slums, like using these excuses that time, money, education, all these pieces are thrown out. When you look at children or people who are impoverished who have to make ends meet and they were able to make light Through, he was mentioning an empty plastic water bottle and they filled the whole light of the space that they were staying in. And it comes to, again, I think pushing yourself, doing that fearlessness and It's really interesting when we feel like there's sometimes barriers when it comes to the workplace, we can't be creative or we can't be innovative. On that note, what. What inspires you and what helps you stay creative and innovative? Is it your network? Is it, constantly learning and seeking new opportunities? I'm just curious on that on a personal level. What inspires you to to stay creative and innovative? Well, first thing I want to reference is a resource for rest, actually. When we talk about creativity, this is actually really important. your cup needs to be full. And there's two seminal resources I would recommend. One is Trisha Hersey's Rest is Resistance, but the other one actually deals directly with creativity. it's a book called Sacred Rest. It's by a doctor, and both of these are Black women, Black women know how to fight systems and change systems. And I think these books really reflect that. Dr. Sandra Dalton-Smith She talks about creative rest as in being in nature and as that you just go outside and are connecting basically and she said that's key to being creative so that's actually something i'm trying to actually action more. but in terms of creativity, I love reading about nonprofit work and sector and sometimes I can actually consume most of my day, but I try not to as well. and look for creativity and other sources or just. Give my brain a little bit of a rest and reprieve so that I can come back to it and look at it in a more focused lens. also reading anything with fiction, uh, fiction books, movies, television, all of it's really helpful. but really the nature piece, I think, especially in this world of sensory overload, that's actually been the most important thing, for me to actually think about writing. when I'm writing, especially, If I have some sort of an idea. I actually try and change location and make sure I try and walk through some sort of nature scene which is hard in Toronto to get there because that actually replenishes me and helps me shift my focus to what I want to talk about. For me, my writing usually is about looking at the systems or the sector at a distance. so for me, that's what I try and practice first. I try and get out of my usual work motor, and take off my fundraising hat and just actually think about what's the kind of world I want to live in because that's really the vision that all my work is geared towards. I love that and it's so important and I think I'm gonna pick out a lot of those pieces as well. I'm also one to just like go and take a walk and like let me process this and. It's so hard because we are constantly plugged in. Yes. Plugged in, you know, your phone's dying and you're plugged into the wall. You have your phone on you at all times. and then you've got this bombardment of social media that's, like, super depressing these days. Like, it's just negativity, negativity, and finding those Little pieces of peacefulness and groundingness and mindfulness is really I think important and I'm trying to incorporate that more into my life so it's really, really interesting to hear the different techniques you're using. And as we're talking about the fundraising sector and space and you're doing different pieces to learn about it. but how have you seen the space evolve over the last few years and as you mentioned a lot more people are coming into the space it's becoming more of a popularized piece. Is there anything, you know, new or exciting that's catching your eye and how people are navigating the fundraising and nonprofit space, especially with all these complexities we talked about with political and these economic landscapes? I think one of the most exciting things for me is seeing the next generation of fundraisers come in, where this question of. for example, community-centric fundraising, this movement to center BIPOC folks in the nonprofit sector. That's less and less radical. And that's exactly what I want to see. Like, I think when that came out to the scene, it was so contentious. There was so much debate about it. But now, and it still ruffles feathers. But at the same time, that's the trend I'm seeing where it's Kind of a given that you'll see something about CCF at a national conference, you'll see big companies be curious about it and host webinars about it. And that's the trend I want to see is that fundraising and justice is not a question of it'd be nice to have justice orientation or it'd be nice to think about the systemic issues apparent in this sector. It's kind of a given. That's the trend I hope to see continue. I like that. And so I want to pick out a point there. You said ruffle feathers. you did an Instagram Live on what does it mean to be a disruptor in an institution? So I want to dive into that. What does being a disruptor mean to you? And when it comes to breaking down institutional barriers, what does it actually take to drive that real change? Being a disruptor to me Is challenging the status quo. And with a specific context of that Instagram was actually talking about the association of fundraising professionals after we had. a public cry for justice about the anti-Black racism within it. And being a disruptor in an institution like that is to say, we don't accept this. We don't accept it. We refuse it. And we will challenge it. and that was actually also from a group of community members and it was led by Anika Allen, to really say that this open secret of injustice, we won't be quiet about it anymore. And I think being a disrupter in an institution is basically just stating your values. I mean. In that context, it really was just, these are our values and this is what we're going to say about it. I think disrupting institutions, disrupting this type of sector It really just is to challenge the status quo of it and say, are we going to accept that every woman of color that comes out of this sector is harmed? Are we going to accept that people can just. I've had a great, illustrious career, never for once thinking about whether the work they do is harming anyone. I think it's really just challenging it. That's how it seems to me. It's really as simple and complex as that all at once. I like that. It's simple, but complex. it's just like talking about therapy, but like setting boundaries in theory are very easy. Yes, exactly. Some get executed is a whole other complexity of things. very well said. Be a disruptor, take the risk, fearless, They're not simple, just words, but they mean, a lot. And I think a lot of people can embody that. And as we're kind of wrapping up here, looking back at your career and your experiences, What advice would you give your younger self just starting out in your career and knowing what you know now and again all these experiences you've had. Is there anything you wish you'd done differently or something you'd tell yourself to keep in mind while you're going through this journey? If I look back at my career, and I don't just mean nonprofit, I come from academia, I come from public relations, I come from hospitality, I come from teaching English in Korea, I had a very strange journey to where I am, but I think the thing I would want to say is Stop trying to force yourself to belong in spaces that don't want you and put that energy into finding the people that see you and want you exactly for who you are. There's been many people in my career that did not try and make me conform to what was maybe the best industry standards at the time or the best way to go about things and who really saw me in my power. And wanted to cultivate that and I think that's been the most radical thing is when you do meet people like that that who advocate for you who don't try and change you who. See your authentic self and want to cultivate it instead of hide it or make sure that you feel ashamed for it or that you will be punished for it or that it will hurt your career in some way for it. That's been. Transformative, truly, because that makes me understand what that feels like and then that gives me the power to give it to someone else. so yeah, stop trying to force yourself to belong anywhere and just find the people that You belong to. I am, like, literally crying right now oh, I have these interviews and I'm just, like, oh, my God, there's good people out there because I think, we've talked about, like unfortunately, we meet a lot of crappy people that dim your light. Um. Yeah. You know, growing up and going through this journey and it's just so inspiring and like, oh my god, I can't stop here. No, it's, belonging is It's hard, right? Like, I think every single person has, if you say the word belonging, it evokes some sort of memory that can be extremely painful and, like, when you talk about, like, Authenticity and when you felt you couldn't be your authentic self and you felt ashamed for it. I think everybody has that experience, but I think that's why it's important for us to share about the experiences when we do feel like that. So that we know it's possible. I don't know how it took this long and I'm very lucky that it even happened to me. I think that pain of feeling that you don't belong to the space, to a community that really sees you, that is a great pain. That's one of, I think, one of the greatest pains any human can experience, so. I'm very honored that you really heard and received my words and like understand it because it's something that I think is universal, truly. Oh, absolutely and that's why I love having these conversations to share this and it ends up being I meet people that are like minded whether it's the universe putting us in these spaces or whatnot and it's so great to hear that. there's this similar wavelength in these thoughts and I think it's a journey, especially as getting older and as women when we're put in these different situations where we don't feel seen and we feel, like kind of sheltered and don't speak up and and I've put into situations where I had to and. I know not everybody has that strength, and I really wanna, with these conversations, tell people you have that strength in you, you just gotta unlock it in some way, and sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's not safe, but, owning that and, pushing where you can and doing those pieces. So thank you so much, Esther, for sharing all These amazing insightful conversation and one of my last questions for you is what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received from someone and how did it shape your professional or personal life. Last piece of advice. Hmm. I think it is what I said with my mom. I have a lot of failures, but I don't have any regrets. Um, I'll get emotional, but. My mom is truly one of the most brilliant and kind and courageous women or people I know. So I think I've really just modeled my life and career looking at what she does. So that's the best piece of advice I've had. That's beautiful and I think this is the most, myself and my guests have ever cried. I'm glad to have this on. I'm sort of like such a good and again, like emotional space one of my, last guests, Alexander Biron, uh, Her piece of advice was lead with your heart and it's something I always thought about and now I like, I feel like I'm, I'm literally feeling my heart just like tingling. It's such something that I'm also like embodying and hearing and I feel like we're leading with our heart and it's emotional like it's an emotional process because there's so much link to it but. Esther, I want to thank you so much for, again, this conversation. Any other closing thoughts you want to share with listeners? And please, let them know where they can find you Well. The first thing I want to say is if there's Anyone doing this work of nonprofit work, I just want to echo what my coaches taught me what my community of activists and friends have taught me, which is that you never do it alone, you always do it in community. And that means celebration. That means grief. That means accountability. That means curiosity. All of these things we process in community. And I think right now in this political climate, that's exactly what they're telling us is going to eradicate us. they're telling you to take care of yourself, only yourself, and that's the only way we'll survive. And it's actually completely the opposite. Right now more than ever reach out to your community and I don't just mean community like all your friends and loved ones I mean. Just go and try and purchase for small businesses and strike up a conversation. Use your library. Remember that you are part of a world and community beyond your small circle and remember that we're fighting for that. The world right now is very scary to say the least, but especially in nonprofit work where community as a word is bandied around so often. Really lean in and define that for yourself because that's what we're fighting for. We're fighting to build this community of people that take care of each other and a world where we can all be really happy and thrive and not be scared. Or harmed. And if that's the case, then we gotta model that and practice that vigilantly. What a way to end it. That was Esther Saehyun Lee and thank you so much for tuning in to this incredibly emotional and insightful episode of Hashtag Fempire Make sure to tune in next week for our next special guest. Thanks so much.