S2E3 Bridging Generations: The Cultural Impact of Baseball in Japanese American Life

In this captivating episode of "Bridging Generations: The Cultural Impact of Baseball in Japanese American Life," hosts Koji and Michelle explore the profound connections between baseball and cultural identity within the Japanese American community. They delve into personal stories, from Koji's admiration for Hideo Nomo to Michelle's son's early baseball antics, highlighting how the sport serves as a bridge between generations. Special guest Jason Murai, president of the Japanese American Baseball Organization, shares insights into the Sansei Baseball League's vital role in fostering cultural identity and community spirit. Through engaging anecdotes and reflections, the episode underscores baseball's enduring impact on Japanese American heritage, resilience, and representation in sports, celebrating figures like Shohei Ohtani who inspire future generations.

For more about the Sansei baseball league go to:  https://www.sanseibaseball.com/ 

To see some of JANM's baseball related programs click on this YouTube playlist https://www.youtube.com/@janmdotorg/search?query=baseball : 

For more information about the Japanese American National Museum, please visit our website at www.janm.org. 

CREDITS

The music was created by Jalen Blank

Written by Koji Steven Sakai

Hosts: Michelle Malazaki and Koji Steven Sakai

Edited and produced by Koji Steven Sakai in conjunction with the Japanese American National Museum

Transcript

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Koji, What's your best baseball memory? Well there's two. One was when I was young, and I remember going to see Hideo Nomo at Dodger Stadium, and I just remember thinking that it was so awesome to see a Japanese person playing professional baseball. And it just meant a lot like it felt like for the first time that, like, I couldn't play Major League Baseball, obviously. But it felt like that. Like I could see somebody that looked like me or had a similar last name. Um, so that was awesome. And then the second thing I was gonna say was, I think I can remember the first time my son hit the ball really hard in a game, and I could I thought, oh my God, he's really good. Nice. Nice. You see it in practice? You know, I see him hitting the ball in practice. I see him whatever. And then you're just like, oh, he's good, but can he do this when it counts? You know, can you do this like against a pitcher who's trying to strike him out? And then you kind of see that and it's, you know, it's it's so nerve wracking because like, you know, as a parent, you know, it's like you want them to succeed. You don't want them to embarrass themselves. And for me, I always think, you know, am I crazy? Is this kid really good or is he just. Am I just being a parent? And then when he does something like that, I think, oh, no, this kid is good. And so, like, you know, like the first time was the first time I was like, oh my God, this guy is good. And he could actually, you know, I don't know how far he could get, but he could he could play baseball for real. That's good because my son also played baseball. And he started very young, like three years old. And then, you know, the T-ball, you have the ball on the little stick and then hit the ball. And he was running to the base and I think he was running straight, but he was not running straight. He was running away. But he was running fast. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this boy. He's okay. But I, I knew he wasn't going to be a baseball player. That's mean. Mean, we played high school baseball, so that's a big deal. I mean, he he played for a long time, but I kind of knew he couldn't play. Right. And he's upstairs. Welcome to season two, episode number three of the Japanese America Podcast. The podcast, where we explore the blend of Japanese and American cultures, history and traditions, as well as all the quirky and wonderful things in between. My name is Michelle and I'm one of your hosts. I am Koji and I am the other host. Michelle, what have you been up to? Oh, I've been busy with the stationary festival. That's taking up all your time. Yeah. Paper palooza. What about you? Baseball. I mean, we were, you know, Saturday we played one game, and then on Sunday, we did a we did a skills competition with the Sansei baseball, which we'll talk about. And then we played three games and it was a from 8 a.m. or 7 a.m. to the morning to 8 p.m. at night. Playing, playing baseball. It was a lot. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Baseball. Yeah, exactly. Well, me, I'm like pen and paper palooza. This month is the start of the Major League Baseball season. Koji, who's your favorite player? It has to be, obviously, Shohei Ohtani. I mean, he's. Not your son. Well, major league baseball player. Oh, yeah. No, I just favorite player. Yeah. My son would be my favorite player. But the problem with my son is always that it's so nerve wracking. I can't enjoy watching him. It's just always so, like, oh, my God, I hope he does really well. I'm so nervous for him. For Shohei is probably our favorite because he's like one of the best baseball players of all time. What about you? Who's your favorite player? Oh, I like Barry Zito because he's handsome in person, but I don't know. I saw him like 25 years ago, so I don't know about now. So like, I, I don't really care about like batting average or bad, you know, runs batted in. I just like the looks and yeah, all the baseball players. Ooh. Tight white pants. I thought Ichiro was pretty good looking. Yeah. He got he got the striped pants. Right. And yeah, he's he's okay. He's okay. I think he's I think he's pretty hot. If I were into dudes I would like him. Mhm. Baseball holds a significant place in the Japanese American community serving as a cornerstone for cultural identity, historical resilience and community bonding. The sport was introduced to Japanese immigrants in the early 20th century and quickly became a popular pastime, fostering a sense of belonging and camaraderie. During World War Two, even in the face of the concentration camps, baseball provided a sense of normalcy and hope. And when with makeshift leagues forming in the camps today, baseball remains a symbol of pride and tradition, connecting generations and celebrating the community's enduring spirit and contributions to the broader tapestry of American culture. Through baseball the Japanese American community honors its heritage, preserves its story, and strengthens its collective identity. This month, we'll be talking to Jason Murai, president of the Japanese American baseball organization Sansei Baseball. We asked Jason to tell us about himself. Ah. All right. Uh, so my name is Jason Murai. I'm a yonsei, fourth generation Japanese American. I'm a dad. I got two wonderful little kids. Uh, most of the time right now, they don't want to sleep. So it's killing me right now. So I don't get a full night's sleep anymore. But, uh. Yeah, I'm a. Aside from parenting, I, uh, I'm a trust and estates lawyer in my actual work. Uh, I am an absentee board member for a little Tokyo Senior Nutrition Services. Um, and I guess the reason I'm here is because, uh, I'm president of Little League baseball sansei baseball league. Were your family in camp? So my mom's side was in camp. They went to, uh, Heart Mountain. Um, my dad's side. My dad's dad went, uh, actually fought in the war, so. Right. We had the two factions of Japanese Americans. They fought in the 442. Yeah. Uh, 442. Yeah. He was a medic, though. So he was in Germany and he got caught. Captured and had to. But he said he got treated pretty well over there. Yeah. So I have both sides. So we got the, the no no's and the. Yeah yeah. Next we asked him about his connection to baseball. Uh, so baseball I've always loved baseball comes from my grandfather. So the one that was in camp, he's my favorite person ever. So yeah, my earliest memories are well for he bought me a little katana and I used to hit him, and he used to let me do that. But aside from that, right. It was baseball. He's a nikkei issei . But. So he loved baseball, but he spoke Japanese. So my parents didn't speak Japanese, so I didn't. I couldn't understand, but the way that we would sort of communicate. And he'd come over every Saturday and we'd just play baseball. So he'd pitch to me, he'd throw me grounders. Pop flies. So every weekend we'd just play baseball. We were curious about Jason's connection to sansei baseball. Did he play as a kid? I did. Yeah, yeah. So that's sort of where my baseball sort of continued, right? Is, uh, I played Sansei, I played on the Dodgers, and we're in LA, and I was a kid rooted for the Dodgers. Like, I watched, uh, Kirk Gibson hit the home run. And I've always been a Dodger fan. After college, I had a season tickets to the Dodgers. Ten years, but yeah. Oh, sansei. So I did play. I played Sansei the whole way through and then just didn't think about it for a long time. But, uh, my friends from Sansei, basically, uh, he was President Ken Ito for eight years, I think something like that. Um, and when his son was getting ready to age out, he was looking for someone to take over. And I think at the time I didn't have kids and just said, okay, sure, when the time comes, I have kids, I'll do it. And I didn't think about it. Now I got kids and they're ready to play. So he he held me to that. So I'm back. I'm back with Sansei. We wanted to know more about the Sansei baseball League. So, yeah. So Sansei baseball is, uh, a little league baseball, uh, league. But it's, uh, specifically, we've been around for 65 years. Uh, it was set up, uh, by some Japanese Americans, I think, after they came back from the war. Right. Uh, it's about ten years. So, yeah, they had kids, and they needed somewhere or wanted somewhere where they kids can play. And, uh, my understanding is, maybe it wasn't that easy for to get those kids to into these other leagues. So they created their own league again. That became Sansei Baseball and it was a thriving organization. We were able to work with the other sort of Japanese organizations around. Right. So the the Gardena Buddhist Church, the Baptist Church, the farmers and optimists and VFW. Right. So they would all sponsor a team. And it's a way to sort of have the community together and and get the kids to play baseball. Next, we asked him why Sansei baseball is important to him. Sansei baseball is important to me for a lot of reasons. Like right now it's just a good, like, safe place to take my kids and give me one hour of reprieve from having to watch them all day and just enjoy some fresh air and to be around other adults and not have to watch them all day. Um, like, I grew up in South Bay, right? So I'm always I was always around other Asian kids, but, uh, you know, Sansei baseball was something that, uh, was sort of Japanese American, right? So being around other Japanese American kids. So it's sort of that. Right? It's being around other people that have sort of the same ethnicity and culture and same sort of background, um, that you don't always get right in just regular school or everywhere else. And it's baseball, right? It's a good way to get together and play. Play ball. And what is the importance of baseball to the community? Uh, like historically. Right. It's always been sort of important. It's a pastime, right? For us, when we first came here, it was something for us to do and try to sort of assimilate into American society. Um, I think that's still the case now with Shohei and all the Japanese baseball players. It's sort of the one sport, right? Aside from golf, maybe where Japanese, American, Asian Americans can try to compete at the highest level, right? We got the one guy in basketball right now, but otherwise. Right. There's no not a lot of Asian American, uh, participation in the at the highest level, right. Basketball. Football. But baseball, we're able to to do well. So yeah, it's important for the community in that sense. We wanted to know what Jason's favorite Sansei baseball moment was. Like. On a on a day to day. I mean, it's a long time ago for me, but, uh, it's always been right. Snacks. You just go. The best part of baseball was the end. When we got to get, uh. They used to have the Sansei used to have this snack booth. Right. And they had these great chili Fritos that I'd love to eat, but that's still my kids favorite part, too, though, like, we ask them, oh, why do you like baseball? Yeah, why? Oh, we get snacks at the end. We asked Jason about the importance of Shohei and other Asian and Asian American players. Like Shohei. It's been great, right, for to getting, uh, sort of recognition, I suppose. Right. For us, seeing somebody that's achieving and performing at the highest level. Right, right. Shohei is in the conversation as the best baseball player of all time, top ten pitcher and a top ten hitter. No one has done that. Even Babe Ruth didn't do that for all the years that Shohei has done it. Right. So like, everything right, seeing representation of that in the media in what we see is, is helpful for us, right? Like, uh, I'm old, but, uh, like, in my time, I sound old in my day, I. But right when I was growing up, though, like, there wasn't any Japanese, no Asian baseball players. Right. In the 80s. It wasn't until Nomo came. And then when Nomo came that. So that was my guy, right? So I think for for kids today, Shohei is our Nomo, right? He's this guy that was like doing stuff that people like that look like me never did. Right. It was always Orel Hershiser. Karros all these Dwight Gooden all these guys. Right. That don't look like us. And something we never thought we could be. Right. Because we don't see it on TV. We don't see it around us. But Shohei and Yamamoto and Ichiro, like, they all sort of give us something, give us hope, right? That we can do this. Someone else is doing it. It's not impossible for us to do. So one of the interesting things, as a kid, when Hideo Nomo was playing baseball, everybody would say, oh yeah, Japanese people can pitch, but they can't hit. And then Ichiro came, and then they said, oh, he could hit singles, but he can't hit home run. And then now with Shohei, like he could hit home runs, he could pitch, he could do everything. And so that was really, really important. And, you know, one of the stories that I shared with Jason and I'll share with you guys is that when we and me and my son, we went to Iowa, we were in a home run hitting contest. And, uh, I remember when he went up there, I always kept thinking, they're all going to call him, you know, Jap or something, you know, racist to him. That's what I thought, because when I played as a kid and we traveled to Texas or Oklahoma, that's what they called me. Oh, my. You know, they were really that's the words they were calling me. But so I was very cognizant of listening for that kind of thing. But so nobody really said anything like that to him. How long ago did you play? Like 20 years ago. 25. Like almost like 40 years ago. Right. So. 80s. 90s. And then I remember. So I remember thinking that. And then when my son went up there, no one said anything like that. And, you know, the things they were saying were like, oh, my God, he's really short because he was like a foot shorter than the Caucasian kids that were his same age. Um, so it was like drastically different. Um, I used to joke. I joked with them, I said, yeah, this kid is rice fed and not corn fed, and that's why he's so short. But anyway, he hits that first home run in his first pitch and everyone started calling him Shohei and they started cheering him on. And you know what that really represented to me was the importance of representation. All these people who've never probably met that many Asian people or any Asian people, they see a guy like Shohei being amazing, and it changes their perspective on who can do what. And the moment they saw Shohei and then they see my son being successful, they could they could imagine that, you know, that he could play baseball. Whereas when I was a kid, it was constantly like, oh, this dude's just short and he can't play baseball. So I think that that's why, like people like Shohei or people like a lot of these Asian or Asian American baseball players are so important, not just in baseball, but in anything, you know, in science and writing. Snd there's a Japanese basketball player, he's like five foot seven and he's doing really well. I'm like, oh my gosh. He's like so short. He's like a meter short. He's on the Memphis Grizzlies and he's been playing really, really well with Ja Morant. Yeah. Yeah. And those you know like when when I was a kid there was no Asian players playing in these professional sports. Right. It was just it was just a dream. For example Jeremy Lin he was an NBA basketball player. You know, people didn't believe, like when he'd come to stadiums. People didn't believe that he could. He was a basketball player. And now I hope those kinds of things are much less common. Right. Just because you're Asian or just because you're whatever doesn't mean that you can't play the sport. Finally, we asked Jason about the future of Japanese Americans in baseball and the future of Sansei baseball. I'm hopeful that baseball continues in popularity. Right? Like he talked about how if you're J.A. right, you either play basketball or taiko or Japanese school baseball is not on that list all the time. Right? Even though everyone. I feel like you talk to everybody, right? Everybody's played Sansei. They say, oh, yeah, I played. I played a little bit, but it's not the driving force anymore, right? Like, it's all basketball. Everybody. But. But I do hope like, I think baseball is a an easy entry sport though. Like our league. Right. We've got 300 kids. But the the bulk of it is all T-ball. Like we've got 12 T-ball teams and we've got like four teams in majors and minors and peewee. Some of that's because of Covid, though, right? We lost a bunch of kids during that three years. But, uh, like, I think T-ball is a good entry point for kids because then it's easy to just have a ball there and hit it and then run to the wrong base, which they always do. Right? But, uh, and then they, they all just chase the ball in the middle of the field when it gets hit. But it's a good entry, sport. Um, my hope is because it's it's hard to continue, though, right? You got to have 18 kids that are kind of driven to keep going and play a game. Whereas basketball, you could do two on two, four and 4 or 5 on five, whatever. But my hope is that it continues on and we do well, and people see the success of all the Shoehei's in the world and, and continue and try to strive to be great. Um, I don't know if that's the reality, but, uh, like, I think for Sansei baseball, our at least my goal, or what I think is important for our league is just to, uh, sort of be this part of Japanese American culture. Like people our age, we talk to people. Oh, yeah, I played Sansei two. I feel like Sansei baseball is part of that Japanese American experience, right? Like like basketball and like. Right. You go to obon's every summer, I assume. Right? And we do all these sort of Japanese American things. Um, I feel like Sansei baseball is one of them. Michelle, any any reactions to what Jason said? I came to America when, um, Detroit was not happy with Japanese car company, and they were burning cars, Japanese cars. And I was kind of scared to go to school on Pearl Harbor day. But I think things are changed now that I don't know. So many things are more global. I how do you say that? Like, um, I don't know about inclusive, but, um, it's not like Japanese people, American people, white people, Asian people. But I think every everybody who has talent get a chance nowadays. Not, you know, not based on a race, but anybody who has talent has good chance of succeeding than before because before it was filtered. Oh, you shouldn't be here because you are a certain race. But now, um, as long as you are good at something, it's accepted. And I really like how it is right now. I disagree a little bit. I mean, definitely better than it was when, you know, when we were 40 years ago, for sure. I do think that there is still a perception of Asians, Japanese people in particular. Like, I'll give you an example. My son, he used to have a regular boy's haircut and. What's a regular boy's haircut? Just like, you know, like just like, not long, not short, just kind of a regular, like ten year old baseball or ten year old boy. Like just a typical haircut. Nothing crazy, nothing unusual. And it was interesting because when you go on the field, people would automatically assume that he couldn't hit the ball hard. And I would hear like, oh, you know, because he's so small. He's not a I mean, he's not small, small, he's but he's not huge either. Yeah. He's very strong. So now like they would step up on him, they would come in early, they come in. And so one of the things that him and I talked about was, hey, you need to look like a baseball player. And one of the ways that you look like a baseball player is you grow. He grew out his hair back of his head, has all this hair like a mullet. Right. And the perception of him totally changed because now he looks like a baseball player. Even though he's Asian, he still looks like now. Like people don't like people like when they see him, they think baseball player. And so I think there's still the vision of people, you know, who are like like if you if you have a certain look or a certain body or certain type, I think there's still that there's still that visual prejudice. I think, I mean, obviously we're always going to have some kind of prejudice, right? Because just when you look at people, things you automatically assume or come to conclusions. But but I do think that there's still like a, you know, like if you're Asian, you're not good at sports. And to kind of bring this to Sansei baseball, I think one of the reasons Sansei baseball is important is it gives opportunities for Japanese Americans to play in a league that is meant to be for people that look like him, which is one of the reasons I wanted my son to play in this league, even though it's not as competitive as, you know, some of his other leagues, it is. He still could have fun and he's with people that look like him, you know, and and there are people that he could relate to, you know, have Japanese names and and like, for example, we went to the skills competition yesterday and we had a spam musubi after, like they were passing out spam musubis. And that's, you know, that's such a yeah, but it's such a JA Japanese American cultural thing that, you know, like we play on teams that are predominantly Mexican American and, you know, so when we leave the field, we're eating tacos, you know, and that's cool because I love the tacos are amazing. But, you know, that's not his culture. That's not him. And so being able to have a league that is for him, you know, where where people you know that that has this cultural reference, I think is important for him to, to learn about himself, to to feel comfortable, to have fun in a way that, you know, a normal quote normal league wouldn't. And a little bit of history on the Sansei, you know, one of the reasons why they started this league or these leagues also is that back then, Asians and Japanese people in particular weren't allowed to play with everybody else. Like same with the basketball leagues, right? The Japanese American baseball. The reason they started was because there wasn't like they weren't allowed to. And so because they weren't allowed to, they started these leagues. And then and a lot of them camps, they were playing in camps and then they play. And then after camps, there's still a lot of hatred toward Japanese because of the war. And then they kind of start. And then it kind of kept going. It's been going on ever since. So I think it's been a really, you know, it's a really important cultural thing that I think Japanese, American, not Japanese, but Japanese American cultural thing for the community. And one of the jokes that I shared with Jason was that I think Japanese American kids, you know, you either do kendo or you do basketball, or you do taiko or you go to Japanese school. And baseball, I mean, and baseball. Yeah. And so for my son, you know, he he can't do J school because he plays baseball on Saturdays. He can't do basketball because he's not very good. He's not tall. And he we tried to do taiko, but he has no rhythm, so he can't do that. You know, one of the reasons my wife and I put him in Japanese American baseball sansei baseball was because we felt that he needed to know more about who he was as a person and the importance of being Japanese American. You know, like, he's not Caucasian, he's not white, he's Japanese, he's Japanese American. So this is an opportunity for him to learn about his culture, even even just by being around other people that look and act like him. So my son is currently playing in the Sansei League. It's his first season, although we have to drive an hour to play. Like we said, it's an important cultural experience for him. For more information about the League, please visit w-w-w.sansei baseball.com. Over the years JANM has hosted numerous programs, events and exhibitions related to baseball. On our YouTube channel, you'll find a variety of fun videos to watch. We'll include a link to the playlist in our show notes. If you could play any sport professionally, which one would you choose and why? Me? I'm super. I'm super curious about this. Yeah. What sport would you play? Poker. Is that a sport. It's not a sport. I see. I know people say I my face shows everything how I feel. So I like poker players. They are like, you can't tell. Like they got the poker face. I want to have that poker face. What about you? If I could play a sport, I would want to play baseball. Obviously, I think because, uh, the problem with football is you just get hurt and you can't walk, and you get CTE and the whole thing. It's pretty terrible. Basketball. Basketball, actually. Maybe I'll play basketball. Because basketball season is shorter. Like it's quicker. A lot more going on. Yeah. No, I take it back. I want to be basketball. I play golf, but like, now I think about golf. Poker. They are like just one person's sports. And Koji you like the team sports I that's nice. I want to play team sports. But like, I don't know. You like individual sports or team sports better. I like golf, but I hit home runs out of sand trap. For me, what I love about team sports is I'm a I'm a connector on teams. So what that means is that I'm the glue guy. You know, I'm the guy that is, you know, getting in fights for my teammates. I'm the guy that's riling up my teammates and trying to encourage them or getting in their face. And, you know, one of the one of the skills I think I have is kind of the ability to, to be in interpersonal relationships, you know, because I was never the best player on any of my teams. I was probably on a good, you know, on a good team. I'm like the fourth or fifth best player on a bad, you know, on a bad team. I'm like the second or third best player. But what I really like was kind of being able to lead the group and be able to be a, a, a leader and emotionally at least. And the problem I had with sports that were just myself is I, I really like interacting with people. I really like talking to people. So I did think I did like kendo, for example. And kendo is an individual sport, right? Um, although there are kendo team right for, for stuff, but mostly it was an individual individual's part and it's just not. I don't find I don't get as much satisfaction as talking. I guess this is a long way of saying, you know, I'm an extrovert and so I get energy from interacting. And the problem with, you know, sports that are individuals that I don't get that same kind of high of of winning with my teammates or, you know, and this is why I coach now is because I love the the interacting and you know, and and by the way, my son is nothing like that. But team sports is nice. So you could, you know, splash Gatorade on top of the coach and stuff. But individual sports you don't get to do that. You can splash gatorade on myself. Ah. That's pretty funny. All right. Thank you, Jason. And thank you, Sansei baseball, for all the work you do and for coming on the podcast. We are deeply grateful for your continued support and enthusiasm for the Japanese America Podcast. Your engagement, feedback and passion inspire us to keep sharing stories and perspectives that bridge cultures and bring people together. Thank you for being a part of our community and for tuning in to each episode. We are excited to continue this journey with you, exploring the rich and diverse tapestry of Japanese American experiences. Stay tuned for more exciting content, and don't hesitate to share your thoughts and ideas. This podcast is a program of the Japanese American National Museum. The museum's mission is to promote understanding and appreciation of America's ethnic and cultural diversity by sharing the Japanese American experience. Please rate, review and subscribe to our podcast, and be sure to join us next month when we tell you the story of Sally Ganor. Thank you. Bye. Take care.