Five Books and Counting: the Novels of Patricia Falvey

Hello, I'm the host of Everyday Creation. Not too long ago, I had the pleasure of interviewing author Patricia Falvey. She and I covered a lot of territory in the full episode, including her successful 30-year career in accounting before she took a leap of faith to become a full-time writer. 

In this excerpt, Patricia talks about each one of her five books. All are historical fiction with a connection to Ireland, where she lived until she was about 8 years old. To listen to "Orphan Girl," which is referenced in the interview, go to @watch?v=-zlUEhxDDhg&list=RD-zlUEhxDDhg&start_radio=1. The song is performed by the Choral Scholars of University College Dublin.

If this episode piques your interest enough to learn more about Falvey and how she's had success in two very different careers, please check out the full interview. It's Episode 116 titled "Author Patricia Falvey on Being Brave, Resilient, and Focused on Your Dream." 

Three more excerpts are publishing this week: "Always a Writer at Heart," "Goodness, Resilience and Paying it Forward," and "The Courage to Embrace Your Second Act."

To learn more about Falvey's books, visit patriciafalveybooks.com. And if you read any or all, please write a review.

This is Kate Jones. Thank you for listening to Everyday Creation, available on YouTube and in podcast directories including Apple, Audible, iHeart and Spotify.

Chapters

• 0:00 Her first book, published in 2010
• 2:50 A WWII setting for the second book
• 5:57 Book 3, an Irish "Downton Abbey"
• 7:35 In book 4, her characters leave Ireland
• 10:02 A "marathon of research" for book 5
• 10:51 More on the history in "The Linen Queen"
• 12:12 Story behind book 5 isn't widely known

Transcript

Patricia:

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:00.980
"The Yellow House"

00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:04.740
was based on stories my grandmother told me.

00:00:04.742

Kate:

Really?

00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:07.060
Yes. And during that

00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:10.020
time of writing that I, again,

00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:11.780
eccentric, crazy,

00:00:12.815 --> 00:00:14.915
but I could hear her voice

00:00:15.535 --> 00:00:17.295
telling the story and I could hear her

00:00:17.295 --> 00:00:20.175
voice in my ear. Ostensibly, what I started

00:00:20.175 --> 00:00:22.335
out to do was write this story about

00:00:22.335 --> 00:00:23.395
the Irish uprising

00:00:23.855 --> 00:00:24.510
and when

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Southern Ireland gained its independence, but Northern Ireland

00:00:28.510 --> 00:00:29.730
remained part of Britain.

00:00:30.270 --> 00:00:32.110
And part of it was that I would

00:00:32.110 --> 00:00:34.910
get so many questions about, well, "all the

00:00:34.910 --> 00:00:36.830
Irish people in the south of Ireland seemed

00:00:36.830 --> 00:00:38.670
to get along. What's wrong with you people

00:00:38.670 --> 00:00:40.005
up in the north?" You know, this is

00:00:40.005 --> 00:00:42.165
when the Troubles were raging. And I said,

00:00:42.165 --> 00:00:44.805
well, the history is very, very different.

00:00:44.805 --> 00:00:47.365
And mostly it's because of something called the

00:00:47.365 --> 00:00:47.865
plantation

00:00:48.645 --> 00:00:50.185
where Southern Ireland,

00:00:50.645 --> 00:00:52.805
the land was taken but it was taken

00:00:52.805 --> 00:00:53.305
by

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dukes

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and aristocrats and people who had, you know,

00:00:58.120 --> 00:00:59.880
fought for the king and all of that,

00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:02.040
and they would get land grants. So they

00:01:02.040 --> 00:01:03.800
were always the ones with the big manor

00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:06.315
houses and so on and so forth. But

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the plantation in the north of Ireland was

00:01:08.875 --> 00:01:10.815
when the British government sent

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farmers

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and steel workers

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and, you know, people of the working class

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and

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gave them land to pursue whatever

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their

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talent was.

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And so they became part of that fabric

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down with the working-class people, as opposed

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to just these sort of absentee

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landlords.

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And they did that because the British government

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was having a lot of trouble suppressing

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the

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uprisings

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that were happening in the north. A lot

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of them were Scottish Protestants,

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Presbyterians,

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and, and they grew and multiplied and so

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on. That's why they became the majority.

00:01:53.320 --> 00:01:55.480
And it was very, very hard, I think,

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for the Catholics to then end up dealing

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with that. I explained an awful lot of

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it in the book, but that was the

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reason I did it. My grandmother, she was

00:02:05.055 --> 00:02:06.175
in the thing called,

00:02:07.215 --> 00:02:08.815
well, I forgot now the name of it,

00:02:08.815 --> 00:02:11.875
but the Irish Women's Group sort of equivalent.

00:02:12.255 --> 00:02:15.235
And my grandfather fought with Michael Collins.

00:02:15.870 --> 00:02:18.590
My grandmother used to tell stories about him.

00:02:18.590 --> 00:02:20.510
She would say things like, "He would come

00:02:20.510 --> 00:02:21.950
home in the middle of the night, and

00:02:21.950 --> 00:02:23.810
I'd hear the knock on the back door

00:02:24.030 --> 00:02:25.630
and I'd open it up and there he

00:02:25.630 --> 00:02:27.250
was running from the bastards,"

00:02:27.550 --> 00:02:29.665
excuse my French. And she said, "And

00:02:29.665 --> 00:02:31.425
I'd have to pull the thorns out of

00:02:31.425 --> 00:02:33.585
his feet because he had no shoes on"

00:02:33.585 --> 00:02:35.345
and dah, dah, dah, dah. So all these

00:02:35.345 --> 00:02:37.585
great stories. I wove a lot of that

00:02:37.585 --> 00:02:38.085
into

00:02:38.625 --> 00:02:40.385
the first book, "The Yellow House." And that

00:02:40.385 --> 00:02:42.740
is the book I think is truly

00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:43.860
from my heart.

00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.400
And it's still selling. Even though it came

00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:48.420
out in 2010,

00:02:48.880 --> 00:02:51.600
it's still selling. So that was followed by

00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:54.355
"The Linen Queen." The first book, "The Yellow

00:02:54.355 --> 00:02:57.335
House," the heroine in the book, Eileen O'Neill,

00:02:57.875 --> 00:02:59.015
aka my grandmother,

00:02:59.315 --> 00:03:00.915
she worked in a linen mill. A lot

00:03:00.915 --> 00:03:02.535
of the Catholic women,

00:03:02.995 --> 00:03:03.895
the only jobs

00:03:04.195 --> 00:03:06.435
they could get, because there was a great deal

00:03:06.435 --> 00:03:07.255
of job discrimination

00:03:07.715 --> 00:03:08.215
anyway,

00:03:08.640 --> 00:03:10.820
but the only jobs they could get were

00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:12.100
in spinning factories

00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:13.940
and weaving factories.

00:03:14.320 --> 00:03:15.940
Turned out that my

00:03:16.320 --> 00:03:17.140
my mother

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:18.740
worked briefly

00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.145
in a linen mill. My grandmother worked

00:03:22.145 --> 00:03:24.225
in a linen mill. My great-grandmother worked

00:03:24.225 --> 00:03:26.865
in a linen mill. And so I became

00:03:26.865 --> 00:03:29.585
fascinated by the linen mills, and they were

00:03:29.585 --> 00:03:31.825
mostly owned by Quakers, which I thought was

00:03:31.825 --> 00:03:32.645
rather interesting.

00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:36.200
And so I was back in Ireland and

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talking to somebody,

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and I'd changed the name of the mill

00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:42.280
and so on, but everybody recognized where it

00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.280
was and everybody had a story of somebody

00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.120
in their family who worked in the 

00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:46.620
mill.

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And so then I ended up

00:03:49.635 --> 00:03:52.115
just talking to somebody, I think when I

00:03:52.115 --> 00:03:54.115
did a launch of "The Yellow House" in

00:03:54.115 --> 00:03:54.615
Ireland,

00:03:55.315 --> 00:03:57.575
and I think the nice thing was that

00:03:57.635 --> 00:03:58.775
while I was there,

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I finally

00:04:00.540 --> 00:04:02.380
was able to find the grave where

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my grandmother had been buried because nobody 

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really knew.

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And we found it and we erected a

00:04:08.860 --> 00:04:11.500
headstone, and I felt like I had done

00:04:11.500 --> 00:04:14.125
the full circle at that point. But anyway,

00:04:14.125 --> 00:04:15.885
so somebody was talking about it and they

00:04:15.885 --> 00:04:17.565
said, "You know, they used to have beauty

00:04:17.565 --> 00:04:20.605
competitions in the linen mills all across the

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north and whoever won it was known as

00:04:22.925 --> 00:04:23.985
the Linen Queen

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for that period of time. 

Kate:

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And they were beauty competitions? 

Patricia:

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Yeah. Well, beauty and grace and good behavior like what Miss America's 

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supposed to be. I thought, you know, that would make a great title.

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So then I set the book

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in 1942

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because

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I knew a lot of stories

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of young American

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soldiers

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who camped out around Northern Ireland

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during World War II. And many of them

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who had been there were part of the

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D-Day landing.

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And so that's really the story

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of how a small

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town in the north of Ireland was changed

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by the soldiers

00:05:03.880 --> 00:05:06.115
coming there. And they all got to know

00:05:06.115 --> 00:05:08.515
them. And many of the American soldiers would

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go

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to dinner every Sunday with some family. So

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when D-Day happened,

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it just shook

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that part of the country to, to its

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knees because they knew all these kids and

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they were all very upset. They could, they

00:05:24.710 --> 00:05:26.310
could quote you the names of all the

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beaches, you know, like Juno Beach and so

00:05:29.030 --> 00:05:31.110
on. And it was a very

00:05:31.110 --> 00:05:33.430
interesting time and I just thought, well, that

00:05:33.430 --> 00:05:35.655
might make a good story. But what I

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usually do, the reason it's historical fiction, as

00:05:38.855 --> 00:05:40.395
well, is that I take

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real events

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and then I take ordinary characters,

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and I tell the story of what it

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was like for these ordinary characters living through

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these major events.

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And that's really the theme that goes through

00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:56.420
all of my books.

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The third one is The Girls of 

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Ennismore."

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That story was the first one I set

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in the west of Ireland in County Mayo,

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where my father's family came from. My mother's

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family is from the north. It's been called like

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an Irish "Downton Abbey." It's set in a

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manor house but against the backdrop of World

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War I

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and the Easter uprising, which was 1916

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in Dublin.

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And I have Rosie, who is the tenant

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farmer's daughter who was brought to take lessons,

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to be a companion for the young girl

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Victoria,

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who is from the aristocratic family. So they

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grow up together.

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But then, of course, when it's time for

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Victoria's coming out and she goes off

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to London

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or wherever, and then Rosie is like, well,

00:06:45.010 --> 00:06:47.330
you get back to the farm. And

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so Rosie ended up going to Dublin and

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the girls do meet up at some point,

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but it's like the different paths

00:06:53.810 --> 00:06:54.870
that they take.

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And then, you know, hopefully, there's some reasonably

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nice ending for it. In that one, I

00:07:00.805 --> 00:07:02.025
referenced the Titanic

00:07:02.725 --> 00:07:05.205
because a lot of young people had sailed

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on the Titanic

00:07:06.725 --> 00:07:08.885
out of Ireland. There's one little village, which

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was right down the street

00:07:10.610 --> 00:07:13.650
from where I set this book and from

00:07:13.650 --> 00:07:15.830
where I had spent summer childhoods

00:07:16.530 --> 00:07:18.950
at my father's family's farm.

00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:21.830
And it's a little village called Lahardane,

00:07:22.635 --> 00:07:23.135
and

00:07:23.435 --> 00:07:23.935
17

00:07:24.555 --> 00:07:25.935
young people died

00:07:26.315 --> 00:07:27.215
on the Titanic

00:07:27.755 --> 00:07:30.095
in, in that one little tiny village.

00:07:30.795 --> 00:07:33.275
Some part of that is in "The Girls

00:07:33.275 --> 00:07:34.335
of Ennismore."

00:07:34.690 --> 00:07:35.430
And interestingly

00:07:35.810 --> 00:07:36.310
enough,

00:07:36.690 --> 00:07:39.270
my next book was called "The Titanic Sisters."

00:07:39.890 --> 00:07:41.730
So that was the first time I tell

00:07:41.730 --> 00:07:44.050
people that I let my characters off of

00:07:44.050 --> 00:07:45.670
the island of Ireland.

00:07:46.130 --> 00:07:48.615
They got to leave Ireland. And in this

00:07:48.615 --> 00:07:51.735
case, the Titanic sisters are two sisters from

00:07:51.735 --> 00:07:52.715
County Donegal,

00:07:53.175 --> 00:07:55.675
which is Southern Ireland but it's

00:07:56.135 --> 00:07:58.775
geographically in the north, if you can imagine.

00:07:58.775 --> 00:07:59.915
It's all very

00:08:00.455 --> 00:08:00.955
complex.

00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:04.560
But one sister, the mother loves her and

00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.480
she can do no wrong. And the other

00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:06.980
sister

00:08:07.520 --> 00:08:09.360
has a hard time of it, but they

00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:11.140
both end up going to America

00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:14.100
and headed to New York on the Titanic

00:08:14.320 --> 00:08:14.820
because

00:08:15.225 --> 00:08:17.625
a wealthy cousin has sent some money. He

00:08:17.625 --> 00:08:19.405
needs a nanny for his daughter.

00:08:19.785 --> 00:08:23.305
So they get there. Neither sister knows whether

00:08:23.305 --> 00:08:24.445
the other one survived,

00:08:25.145 --> 00:08:27.065
and one takes the place of the other

00:08:27.065 --> 00:08:29.680
one. But then I move it to Texas

00:08:29.740 --> 00:08:31.420
and I've been in Texas so long, and

00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:33.180
I thought, you know, I really know a

00:08:33.180 --> 00:08:35.680
lot about what went on in Texas history.

00:08:35.900 --> 00:08:38.080
Might be kind of fun to do that.

00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:40.880
So I had these two Irish girls

00:08:41.475 --> 00:08:44.835
end up just as the oil rush was

00:08:44.835 --> 00:08:45.895
starting to happen

00:08:46.355 --> 00:08:47.015
in Texas.

00:08:47.715 --> 00:08:50.435
And so I had some fun bringing

00:08:50.435 --> 00:08:53.555
in some real Texas characters and one woman

00:08:53.555 --> 00:08:56.515
in particular named Mayflower who has all these

00:08:56.515 --> 00:08:57.880
great Texas sayings.

Kate:

00:08:58.260 --> 00:09:01.160
I loved her character. 

Patricia:

00:09:01.380 --> 00:09:01.860
Yeah. Wasn't she lovely?I mean,

00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:04.680
well, what did she say? Her mother

00:09:05.140 --> 00:09:07.860
was so full with pride that she carried

00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:10.660
her nose so high that she might've drowned

00:09:10.660 --> 00:09:11.560
in a rainstorm.

00:09:11.940 --> 00:09:14.945
I mean, just some real great things that

00:09:14.945 --> 00:09:16.465
I was able to do with that. I

00:09:16.465 --> 00:09:18.545
just enjoyed that. And that book was

00:09:18.545 --> 00:09:19.365
pretty popular...

Kate:

00:09:19.367

Oh, yeah.

Patricia:

00:09:20.065 --> 00:09:22.625
 ...with the local Texan people. And

00:09:22.625 --> 00:09:24.465
you know, I'm always waiting for that one

00:09:24.465 --> 00:09:26.670
person who says you got that wrong. And

00:09:26.670 --> 00:09:28.770
that's the problem with historical fiction.

00:09:29.150 --> 00:09:31.150
I was asked the other day at my

00:09:31.150 --> 00:09:32.130
Suffolk University

00:09:32.590 --> 00:09:33.090
reunion

00:09:34.030 --> 00:09:34.530
event,

00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:37.630
why is it called historical fiction? And I

00:09:37.630 --> 00:09:39.150
said, well, in a way, it's kind of

00:09:39.150 --> 00:09:39.890
an oxymoron.

00:09:40.765 --> 00:09:42.925
How can it be historical and fiction? And

00:09:42.925 --> 00:09:44.785
I said it's kind of like fake news.

00:09:44.845 --> 00:09:46.845
But first of all, people have to realize

00:09:46.845 --> 00:09:49.005
it is fiction. Some part of it is

00:09:49.005 --> 00:09:49.505
fictionalized,

00:09:50.045 --> 00:09:52.045
but I always try to keep the actual

00:09:52.045 --> 00:09:55.770
events and places and whatever details I can,

00:09:55.850 --> 00:09:57.230
I try to keep those

00:09:57.610 --> 00:09:58.750
as genuine

00:09:59.130 --> 00:10:00.990
and accurate as I can.

00:10:01.530 --> 00:10:04.490
In "The Famine Orphans," my latest book, which

00:10:04.490 --> 00:10:05.470
was really

00:10:06.090 --> 00:10:06.830
a marathon

00:10:07.690 --> 00:10:08.350
of research

00:10:08.725 --> 00:10:10.585
because it's set in the 1840s,

00:10:11.605 --> 00:10:12.665
early 1850s,

00:10:13.605 --> 00:10:15.785
and that's going back a long way.

00:10:17.125 --> 00:10:20.245
And my girls had to go on this

00:10:20.245 --> 00:10:21.465
three- to four-month

00:10:21.925 --> 00:10:24.900
ship ride on a very small sailing ship

00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:26.180
from England

00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:27.460
down to Australia.

00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:29.840
So I had to research all this stuff

00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:32.720
about what those ships were like and something

00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:35.280
about how they run and the wind and

00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:38.165
how well this works. And my geography had

00:10:38.165 --> 00:10:40.005
to be improved. I kind of followed the

00:10:40.005 --> 00:10:42.965
route that they went and so on. So

00:10:42.965 --> 00:10:44.725
there was an awful lot, and I'm

00:10:44.725 --> 00:10:47.205
still waiting for somebody from Australia now to

00:10:47.205 --> 00:10:48.745
say, well, you've got this wrong.

00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.920
Doesn't happen too often. "The Linen Queen" was

00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:55.040
really interesting because I got challenged a couple

00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:55.780
of times

00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:59.200
on the fact that there were actually little

00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:00.180
Jewish orphans

00:11:01.245 --> 00:11:02.385
from the war

00:11:02.925 --> 00:11:05.325
in Northern Ireland, in this place called 

00:11:05.325 --> 00:11:06.145
Millisle. And

00:11:06.925 --> 00:11:09.105
they went to school with the kids there

00:11:09.165 --> 00:11:11.265
and they actually had like a little kibbutz,

00:11:11.805 --> 00:11:13.185
you know, a little farm

00:11:13.640 --> 00:11:15.180
and they had a synagogue.

00:11:15.800 --> 00:11:16.300
And

00:11:16.680 --> 00:11:19.640
I remember one Jewish book club, some lady

00:11:19.640 --> 00:11:22.680
saying, "Well, that's not true." And I said,

00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:24.840
yes, I've been there. I've talked to people,

00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.420
who know about it. And she said,

00:11:27.705 --> 00:11:28.205
"Well,

00:11:29.225 --> 00:11:30.345
how come an Irish woman knows

00:11:30.345 --> 00:11:31.945
more about our history than we do?"

00:11:31.945 --> 00:11:34.185
And so she was quite put out, but

00:11:34.185 --> 00:11:35.945
then the better thing was I was at

00:11:35.945 --> 00:11:39.005
a book club signing in Greenwich, Connecticut.

00:11:39.830 --> 00:11:41.670
And I got the same thing from a

00:11:41.670 --> 00:11:44.070
lady who said, "Oh, you made that up,

00:11:44.070 --> 00:11:46.390
right?" And I said, no, it's true. And

00:11:46.390 --> 00:11:47.450
another lady

00:11:47.910 --> 00:11:49.930
who happened to be there in the audience

00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:52.790
said, "Oh, yes, it's true because my great-

00:11:52.790 --> 00:11:53.690
great-grandfather

00:11:54.535 --> 00:11:55.835
was one of the four

00:11:56.535 --> 00:11:57.995
gentlemen from Belfast

00:11:58.375 --> 00:11:59.835
who bought that property

00:12:00.455 --> 00:12:02.855
in Millisle where they set it up

00:12:02.855 --> 00:12:04.635
for all these kids to come to.

00:12:05.175 --> 00:12:07.515
I felt good after that. But, you know,

00:12:07.910 --> 00:12:09.750
it does happen. I mean, you can't get

00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:12.790
everything right but you try. And with this

00:12:12.790 --> 00:12:15.510
book in particular, I think because it's a

00:12:15.510 --> 00:12:18.790
true story, which is kind of interesting because

00:12:18.790 --> 00:12:21.190
everything else I've written about, yeah, they're all

00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:23.530
true stories, but they're known.

00:12:23.885 --> 00:12:27.085
And this story, very few people actually know

00:12:27.085 --> 00:12:29.105
it. And it's about 4,000

00:12:29.645 --> 00:12:33.085
young Irish female orphans between the ages of

00:12:33.085 --> 00:12:34.305
14 and 19

00:12:35.005 --> 00:12:36.465
who were persuaded

00:12:37.670 --> 00:12:39.050
by the English government

00:12:39.750 --> 00:12:42.010
and then the governors of the workhouses.

00:12:42.470 --> 00:12:44.550
They were all in workhouses because of the

00:12:44.550 --> 00:12:47.750
famine. And this was, like, 1846

00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:48.730
or '87

00:12:49.270 --> 00:12:51.770
and on from there. And it was because

00:12:52.135 --> 00:12:53.975
of the famine they had lost their

00:12:53.975 --> 00:12:56.295
parents and so on and all the 

00:12:56.295 --> 00:12:59.275
workhouses were very overcrowded. So the Australian

00:12:59.655 --> 00:13:02.855
colonists, the people in charge there, and the

00:13:02.855 --> 00:13:05.735
English — and Australia was a colony, obviously, of

00:13:05.735 --> 00:13:08.230
England at that time. And so they

00:13:08.690 --> 00:13:11.010
said, "Well, have we got a deal for you.

00:13:11.010 --> 00:13:12.230
Why don't we pay

00:13:12.770 --> 00:13:15.650
to take all these girls of a certain

00:13:15.650 --> 00:13:16.150
age

00:13:16.610 --> 00:13:18.690
out of the workhouses and we'll put them

00:13:18.690 --> 00:13:20.370
on a boat and we'll pay for the

00:13:20.370 --> 00:13:22.310
trip and we'll buy them some clothes

00:13:23.045 --> 00:13:24.505
and we'll guarantee

00:13:24.885 --> 00:13:26.905
them jobs as domestic servants

00:13:27.285 --> 00:13:28.265
in Australia"

00:13:28.725 --> 00:13:31.445
because Australia had lots of big houses. There

00:13:31.445 --> 00:13:33.045
are a lot of aristocracy that lived

00:13:33.045 --> 00:13:35.445
there, but they didn't have a lot

00:13:35.445 --> 00:13:36.185
of servants.

00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:38.870
And they thought, "Well, this would be a

00:13:38.870 --> 00:13:40.790
way to do it." And the girls were

00:13:40.790 --> 00:13:41.690
given a choice.

00:13:42.150 --> 00:13:44.010
They were told, you can stay here and starve,

00:13:44.150 --> 00:13:44.810
you know,

00:13:45.190 --> 00:13:47.530
or you can take this. And so

00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:50.550
most of them accepted it. What they didn't

00:13:50.550 --> 00:13:52.735
say, what was kind of a hidden agenda

00:13:53.355 --> 00:13:56.015
was that there were all these male prisoners

00:13:57.035 --> 00:14:00.735
in Australia because Australia had been England's

00:14:01.675 --> 00:14:03.215
outdoor prison basically.

00:14:03.835 --> 00:14:06.315
And a lot of those prisoners had been

00:14:06.315 --> 00:14:08.700
there more than ten years and they had

00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:10.780
sort of earned their ticket of leave. They'd

00:14:10.780 --> 00:14:11.760
served their sentence,

00:14:12.140 --> 00:14:14.300
but they were rough and ready. And the

00:14:14.300 --> 00:14:17.340
Australians wanted to build settlements and to build

00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:19.420
settlements, they had to get these guys to

00:14:19.420 --> 00:14:22.320
settle down and be civilized, quote unquote.

00:14:22.700 --> 00:14:24.835
And so they thought all these girls will

00:14:24.835 --> 00:14:27.235
come and they'll all marry and this will

00:14:27.235 --> 00:14:27.895
be great.

00:14:28.355 --> 00:14:31.235
So a win-win, you know, and that's

00:14:31.235 --> 00:14:34.195
not totally what happened. So anyway, I tell

00:14:34.195 --> 00:14:35.015
this story

00:14:35.780 --> 00:14:37.620
and part of the reason I wanted to

00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:40.340
write it is because two things. One, I

00:14:40.340 --> 00:14:42.260
was born in a town called Newry in

00:14:42.260 --> 00:14:44.340
the north of Ireland, and there were 

00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:47.060
workhouses there. And I found out that there

00:14:47.060 --> 00:14:47.535
were

00:14:48.015 --> 00:14:50.995
around 25 girls from the Newry workhouse

00:14:51.535 --> 00:14:53.315
who had gone to Australia.

00:14:53.935 --> 00:14:54.435
And

00:14:54.975 --> 00:14:56.515
I thought that could have been

00:14:57.055 --> 00:14:59.615
me in a different time. That could have

00:14:59.615 --> 00:15:00.915
been one of my relatives.

00:15:01.290 --> 00:15:03.690
So I had a kinship already knowing that

00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:06.110
some of them were from there. And then

00:15:06.170 --> 00:15:08.030
also the fact that I'm an immigrant.

00:15:08.410 --> 00:15:08.910
And

00:15:09.530 --> 00:15:10.830
I thought I could

00:15:11.210 --> 00:15:14.250
at least give some idea to the reader

00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:16.705
of how it would feel for these young

00:15:16.705 --> 00:15:18.705
girls, many of whom had never been off

00:15:18.705 --> 00:15:22.245
their farm or whatever, coming to this really

00:15:22.705 --> 00:15:24.005
strange place

00:15:24.545 --> 00:15:27.105
that they had no idea even existed and

00:15:27.105 --> 00:15:28.805
to try to make their way.

00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.060
And so I felt I could

00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.140
in many ways speak for them.

00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.160
And I think that's why this book has

00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:37.380
meant a lot to me

00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:39.360
to do. It's kind of like up there

00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.440
with "The Yellow House." I've tried to give

00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.580
voice to these girls. And what's been interesting

00:15:45.015 --> 00:15:47.895
in the last few years, the Australians have

00:15:47.895 --> 00:15:49.915
started to focus on this story

00:15:50.375 --> 00:15:51.835
and they've got a memorial

00:15:52.455 --> 00:15:54.075
museum in Sydney,

00:15:54.535 --> 00:15:56.875
and they've had lots of genealogists

00:15:57.335 --> 00:15:59.495
come and lots of people are tracing their

00:15:59.495 --> 00:15:59.995
relatives

00:16:00.750 --> 00:16:02.210
back through to these girls.

00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:06.110
And they've become known colloquially as the mothers

00:16:06.110 --> 00:16:06.930
of Australia,

00:16:07.630 --> 00:16:09.390
which I think is kind of cool. What

00:16:09.390 --> 00:16:11.490
I haven't said was more than 20

00:16:11.550 --> 00:16:12.050
ships

00:16:12.350 --> 00:16:13.730
sailed with these girls.

00:16:14.275 --> 00:16:15.815
And the first couple

00:16:16.595 --> 00:16:19.495
had a prevalence of people from Belfast.

00:16:19.875 --> 00:16:21.955
So you've got to know the Belfast people.

00:16:21.955 --> 00:16:22.455
They'll

00:16:22.915 --> 00:16:25.715
speak out and so on. And so anyway,

00:16:25.715 --> 00:16:27.795
there was a ship's doctor who was in

00:16:27.795 --> 00:16:29.850
charge of the first set of girls 

00:16:29.850 --> 00:16:31.850
who went on this boat called the Earl

00:16:31.850 --> 00:16:34.190
Grey. And it turned out that

00:16:35.610 --> 00:16:38.190
he had a hard time with disciplining them

00:16:38.570 --> 00:16:41.210
and so on. So when they got to

00:16:41.210 --> 00:16:43.630
Sydney, he just put up such a ruckus

00:16:44.175 --> 00:16:46.355
about how terrible they were and

00:16:46.975 --> 00:16:49.775
how low class and low lifes they were,

00:16:49.775 --> 00:16:52.575
and how they would make terrible servants, things

00:16:52.575 --> 00:16:54.015
like that. And it was picked up by

00:16:54.015 --> 00:16:54.675
the press.

00:16:55.215 --> 00:16:56.655
And then when it was picked up by

00:16:56.655 --> 00:16:58.675
the Sydney Herald, then it became

00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.560
a story in Melbourne and Adelaide and some

00:17:02.560 --> 00:17:05.220
of the other areas around there. So

00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:08.560
people began to be very wary of these

00:17:08.560 --> 00:17:11.060
girls and the ones who came subsequently

00:17:12.005 --> 00:17:13.925
kind of paid the price for that because

00:17:13.925 --> 00:17:15.785
they found a great deal of discrimination.

00:17:16.165 --> 00:17:17.545
It was anti-Irish.

00:17:17.845 --> 00:17:19.225
It was anti-Catholic.

00:17:19.845 --> 00:17:22.425
Those who didn't get hired right away

00:17:22.725 --> 00:17:25.130
had a very hard time making it. A

00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:26.590
lot of them turned to prostitution.

00:17:27.370 --> 00:17:29.850
That's how it worked. But a lot of

00:17:29.850 --> 00:17:33.530
them did, over time, succeed. And so in

00:17:33.530 --> 00:17:35.950
this story, I follow six girls.

00:17:36.810 --> 00:17:39.870
Kate, my main character is the narrator, but

00:17:40.135 --> 00:17:42.375
I follow six, and they all have somewhat

00:17:42.375 --> 00:17:43.675
different experiences.

00:17:44.375 --> 00:17:47.515
And again, it was interesting that just timing

00:17:48.215 --> 00:17:49.675
was kind of cool because

00:17:49.975 --> 00:17:50.715
the outback

00:17:51.175 --> 00:17:52.795
of Australia, where people

00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:56.310
in and around Sydney and elsewhere were wanting

00:17:56.310 --> 00:17:58.490
to put down roots and

00:17:59.110 --> 00:18:01.530
have farms and so on and so forth,

00:18:01.590 --> 00:18:03.670
and they had no idea really how

00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:06.230
bad the outback could be. And Kate is

00:18:06.230 --> 00:18:07.605
one of the ones who

00:18:08.085 --> 00:18:11.125
ends up out there with her husband trying

00:18:11.125 --> 00:18:13.125
to get a farm going, and then he

00:18:13.125 --> 00:18:15.685
has to take off because they're not making

00:18:15.685 --> 00:18:18.185
it. And she's left with the isolation,

00:18:18.725 --> 00:18:20.485
which was worse than anything. And, you know,

00:18:20.485 --> 00:18:22.265
there's nobody around for miles,

00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:25.870
no other human being. So I use her

00:18:26.090 --> 00:18:28.410
to sort of illustrate how that would have

00:18:28.410 --> 00:18:28.910
been

00:18:29.210 --> 00:18:30.670
for the people. And then

00:18:31.130 --> 00:18:33.770
right on top of that, the Australian gold

00:18:33.770 --> 00:18:34.670
rush started.

00:18:35.405 --> 00:18:37.965
So I moved some of my characters up

00:18:37.965 --> 00:18:41.005
through the experience of the gold rush. And

00:18:41.005 --> 00:18:41.985
that was coincidental,

00:18:42.365 --> 00:18:44.685
kind of like the oil boom here in

00:18:44.685 --> 00:18:47.485
Texas just coincided with what I was writing.

00:18:47.485 --> 00:18:49.840
So I did take a ride through the

00:18:49.840 --> 00:18:52.400
gold fields and discovered how a lot of

00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.720
that worked, but I make sure that I

00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.440
follow all of the orphans. 

Kate:

00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:58.340
 And did yougo to Australia?

Patricia:

00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.695
No. I meant to go, and that's

00:19:01.775 --> 00:19:03.375
the one thing that I'm really a little

00:19:03.375 --> 00:19:05.535
nervous about, but I'm thinking it certainly can't

00:19:05.535 --> 00:19:06.035
look

00:19:06.415 --> 00:19:08.735
today the way it looked in 1850.

00:19:08.735 --> 00:19:11.215
So I know I have that going

00:19:11.215 --> 00:19:13.395
for me, but I just made up

00:19:13.455 --> 00:19:15.775
for what I could with research. The reason

00:19:15.775 --> 00:19:18.710
I couldn't go, because I was planning to,

00:19:18.770 --> 00:19:19.590
and then

00:19:20.050 --> 00:19:21.990
I was running a little behind

00:19:22.290 --> 00:19:24.950
on my time for the book deadline.

00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:27.890
But on top of that, I had an

00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.230
odd accident with an Uber driver

00:19:30.965 --> 00:19:34.105
who backed up over my foot and broke

00:19:34.405 --> 00:19:36.905
my foot in several places. And,

00:19:37.285 --> 00:19:37.785
therefore,

00:19:38.165 --> 00:19:40.165
I wasn't able to travel. I was in

00:19:40.165 --> 00:19:41.865
pain. I wasn't able to write.

00:19:42.405 --> 00:19:43.925
And so there was no way I was

00:19:43.925 --> 00:19:46.400
gonna get to go to Australia and finish

00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.040
the book on time. It just didn't happen,

00:19:49.040 --> 00:19:50.260
but I'm still hopeful

00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.040
that I'll get to go. Maybe they'll invite

00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:55.520
me over, you know, once they know that

00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:56.580
I've written this.