Trudge Report
Four friends, all in recovery and living in South Florida, come together to discuss a variety of topics aimed at enriching their lives and those of their listeners. With a focus on sports, recovery, trending cultural phenomena, and daily life tips, they hope to inspire their audience to live better lives. Drawing on their own experiences and camaraderie, they aim to be informative, inspiring, vulnerable, genuine, and humorous. They encourage listeners to join them in exploring new interests and perspectives, while also fostering stronger connections with their friends, families, and communities. Their shared journey through recovery bonds them together and forms the foundation of their friendship and the podcast's message of growth and improvement.
Trudge Report
Ep. 120 - How We Deal With Relapse: Mormons, Vivitrol, Boneless Wings, & Rock Bottom
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Hello and welcome back to another episode of Trudge Report. Thank you for your listenership and patronage of the show. We are recording this on Memorial Day so we first want to take a moment and honor those who have given their lives in service for our country. This week we have a lively around the Horn discussion surrounding Mormons, Brigham Young University, premarital sex, and retired college basketball players. Big shout out to Dan's wife, Alyssa, for graduating college. We also pause for another moment of silence for Cory's grandmother who passed away recently. 98 years old and a life well lived. And naturally Greg finishes this segment off with a quick rant about boneless chicken wings.
The recovery segment surrounds the topic of how we deal with people who have relapsed or who continue to constantly relapse. We discuss briefly how we think our loved ones and significant others should deal with us if we were in that place. We talked about the never give up mentality that recovery has for everyone, even if on a personal level, we have to discontinue talking with someone for a time and show some tough love. We then move into the discussion about how much of a physical bottom a person needs to truly hit before a genuine surrender. Lastly, we have a somewhat recurring discussion about suboxone maintenance, vivitrol, and other drinks, drugs, and medications that are supposed to help quell the craving and desire to drink alcohol lol and do drugs. This one we leave on a bit of a cliffhanger for a future episode.
The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light -Matthew ch 6-
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Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to another episode of Trudge Report. We are a recovery-based podcast. My name is Sean, and I am your host, joined by my good friends, fellow Trudgers. Please remember to listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Videos will be posted each week, so you can watch episodes on YouTube and Facebook. But as always, please be sure to download on your listening platforms. Remember to like and subscribe on all social media outlets with the handle at Trudge Report Pod. Uh, please smash that like button, right, Corey? Smash like your Brandon Davies. You have consent. Uh we are brought to you by Stella Mix Management and uh our producer and editor, Ms. Janine Stella. I'll tell that story one day. It's actually a college basketball story. Dan will probably F it, I'll tell it right now. So Brandon Davies was a former uh BYU basketball player. Corey, do you know what BYU is? What what uh acronym for what college that is? Bring your own beer. Close. Except there's a U on the end, but um it's uh Brigham Young University. Do you know what what Brigham Young, what kind of university that is? Uh high school.
SPEAKER_02It'd be them Mormons, boy.
SPEAKER_01It'd be them Mormons, baby. It'd be them Mormons, it'd be them people that they really, really, really look and frown upon uh premarital sex, amongst other things. But uh premarital sex is a big thing that they don't like, um, and they have very strict rules for their university. Well, Brandon Davies was a very good college basketball player, uh, probably about 10-15 years ago by now, I would think. Um, somebody could uh um fact check me on that as well. Yes, and Janine said caffeine or alcohol. There's a lot of things that the Mormons don't want you to do, but but premarital sex.
SPEAKER_00I okay. I I I have a question. I hope it's not too much of a rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_01Well, can I let me just can I just finish real quick? Uh yeah, go ahead. So Brandon Davies was a very good college basketball player that played for them, and he was, I don't know if he was caught in the act, because that would be kind of awkward, but there was evidence that Brandon Davies was uh engaging in premarital sex, and they kicked him off the basketball team and out of the school. And so the so the the the joke is or the whatever is is the college basketball podcast I listen to, which is the I on college basketball podcast from CBS Sports, the two gentlemen that have been doing the show for 15 years, when they in the intro they say, Welcome to CBS Sports, I on College Basketball, where we sometimes discuss this, this, and that. Uh, and what they say is, and if you're listening, you like the show, please smash that like button. Like you're Brandon Davies, you have consent. So there you go, Corey. That's why I always ask you to smash that like button. Because like smash is another nick is another word for like getting it on, Corey.
SPEAKER_00So what exactly is a Mormon?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's a it's a s um it's well, it's what we the three of us are trying to convert you to, actually, is what it is.
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying, I don't I don't think I actually know what like one believes.
SPEAKER_01Well it's a oh like well what do you mean you mean what do they believe? What makes you a Mormon?
SPEAKER_02Well that's the um I would say like the Mormons uh Seven Day Adventures they're they're they're like they're halfway between like modern Christianity and like Scientology.
SPEAKER_00And I don't really know what Scientology is.
SPEAKER_02I would say it's like right in the middle, like some of their shit is really out there.
SPEAKER_01It is really out there. It's so you'll know them as the Seventh-day Adventist uh the Church of the Latter-day Saints. They're just a branch of Christianity, but they're a very extreme, extreme branch of Christianity. And you can't you can't officially be a member unless you're, I think, unless you're like baptized or like you go through some like ritual, not like ritual, but like the you gotta go similar to Catholicism, where you can't like technically be a member of the Catholic Church unless you go through all these steps. Theirs are just more strict and more stringent, and you know, uh the the except when it comes to taking 12 wives.
SPEAKER_02You can do that, you can do that all day long. One of them's like your your your stepsister, but you can't have sex with them unless you're married with them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they still they still frown upon premarital sex, but you can marry 12 of them and have sex with all of them. So far, this doesn't sound too bad. Yeah, maybe not, I guess, at some level. Oh god. I mean, but uh yeah, so Brandon Davis.
SPEAKER_00I didn't know Jesus condoned this kind of stuff. This is cool.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm not sure he kind of I'm not sure he actually did. Had I known this. Sorry to all sorry to all our Mormon listeners. Uh we're not trying to poo-poo on your religion at all, but uh I don't even know any dude.
SPEAKER_00Then there's not a single Mormon listens to us, not one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's also the Book of Mormon, which is like uh another version of the Bible, like a different version of the Bible.
SPEAKER_00Holy shit. What is what exactly Greg, what exactly is Scientology? Because the first time I heard that word was when Hulk Hogan died, which was last year.
SPEAKER_01Dude, you don't know about Scientology, dude. Not really cruise, baby. Leah Ramini from King of Queens.
SPEAKER_00Remember she like denounced all of it? Yeah, heard it's like cult-like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a it's a cult for sure. Can we bring back the deep dive, guys? Can we do a deep dive into Scientology one of these weeks? We're gonna have to because I put it on.
SPEAKER_02Essentially, it's a it was original uh religion that's uh and use the term religion loosely, but it was written by L Ron Hubbard, who is a science fiction writer, a famous science fiction writer. Oh, a good start of religion. And it's and it's just as wild as as I'm sure many of his novels are. I've never read either.
SPEAKER_00So I gotta get into this. I gotta figure this out. I gotta figure out the 12 wild.
SPEAKER_01Not to be confused with Christian science, which is what Emmett Fox was about. That's that's okay. Christian science is is a good thing.
SPEAKER_02We don't we don't Scientology is like uh also you know, like a pay-to-play type deal. So the more money you spend, the further, the further up you get in the old ranking system, closer to God and whatnot, or divine spiritual being, or you know, God God was a capitalist in there as well.
SPEAKER_01It's always good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's always good when the money makes you get higher in the levels.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm gonna go.
SPEAKER_03Forget the good axe and the fake, you know, it's the money.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But all right. That's why I always say smash that like button, Corey, because I know you like to smash things, you know. Like 12 wives. I need we need to not clip. You can't even handle one, dude.
SPEAKER_00Let's let's not let's not clip any of this, Greg. Anyway. Oh no, we're clipping it. We'll find out if we don't clip it.
SPEAKER_01Um our our wonderful producer, she sent some uh some facts about Mormons and stuff in the chat if you guys want to read it. And and she just made a comment. How can any man uh handle that many wives? I'd be in table. I would agree.
SPEAKER_03I'd be in tundra.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, all right. What else, Corey? Anything else you want to take us down? I mean, I guess I started that, so yeah. I mean that's a good Austin Powers reference, Janine. Yeah. Halada Fachina. Ivana Hubble. Corey, how are you? Let's go there. Great, hey, great party on Saturday, bud. Great party.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for the invite. Yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_00I think I did invite you guys. I'm just saying. Possibly last week, right here on the pod. Yeah, no, it was fun. It was fun, right? Yeah. Yeah. I had some interesting conversations after you left, by the way. Not like strictly after you left, but like later in the night, and I'm totally gonna fucking vent to you this week because it pissed me off. That's fine. Sorry for the insider stuff, listeners. But anyway.
SPEAKER_02No, vent it to the pod, man up.
SPEAKER_00I I can't. I'll have to make amends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, boy I know what he's referencing. We'll take it. We'll take it offline in the group thread after this.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah. Actually, Greg knows, because I bitched in another group chat. But yeah, we I gotta bring it to you, Sean. Did it get worse? I mean, everything gets worse, Sean. Um never mind, I'll I'll stop being cryptic. I apologize. Anyway, yeah. Uh no, Noah had a great time. Noah had a great time. Five years old already. And all that I know. Um Hey, real quick, I I have to I have to take a moment to acknowledge and uh whatever um my grandmother ended up passing away this this past week. Sorry and absolutely. And um I mean I just wanted to take a quick moment to say that she was 98 years old. And I just beyond good. You know? Like I'm not in a lot of like, oh, like you just like sorry to hear that and uh like oh it's sad and all this stuff and it is sad anytime, right? This happens and the chapter closes, but like I just felt an like I still feel an immense amount of pride that that she lived 98 years old to 98 years old, raised six kids, has like just she was a matriarch of our family, you know, and yeah, just a lot of pride in that regard. And uh one it it was hard not to be like relieved for her because I know she's been struggling and and suffering a bit um the last few years. And but one of one of the funnier but also real moments that we had a few years ago was at her 95th birthday party. And Gabby and I flew up there with the kids, surprised her. Um she was really happy to see us. Uh my Uncle Bill surprised her too. He flew into Colorado. I spent the da uh you know the better part of the evening with her and watched the Eagles game and had pizza and all this stuff. Was she an Eagles fan? She lived in Philly for 98 years. So yes, she was uh everything she she liked baseball, she was a Phillies fan. She would watch baseball. That's awesome. Um In fact, last time I talked to her, she looked which was a couple weeks ago, she was watching the Phillies. Um But anyway, so we flew up there for a 95th and spent the day with her, whatever. And at the end of the night, Gabby and I had to go catch our flight. And I walked up to her and I said, Alright, Mama, we gotta go, you know, gave her a hug, whatever. And I said, Hey, let's do this again next year. And she like kind of laughed and said, I really hope I'm not here next year. And I thought I laughed when she said it, and I thought it was so funny, but I also knew that she was like pretty serious too. Like she and and that's something I aspire I mean Sean, you know how much I worry about death. That's something I aspire to get to as well, right? Like I want to live to be so old. But also like to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm um God, you know what I mean? Yeah, like so anyway. But yeah, incredible life. So shout out to grandma. Um other than that, on a happier note, we're going to some Dave Matthews concerts this week. Yes, sir. Can't wait for that. Good stuff. Yeah, it's gonna rain. It's gonna rain, Sean. Uh don't be a pessimistic, please. I didn't I didn't say that was a bad thing. Didn't say that was a bad thing. Just just Kyle Kyle's the one out here like it's gonna suck. I'm like, what do you mean it's gonna suck? It fucking rained last time. We got last stop. It was great. It was awesome last year after he came back.
SPEAKER_01Was that last year? Two years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. It was awesome. Yeah, because Greg was here. Remember, yeah. That was awesome. Yeah, it's at the Southern uh I think Amphitheater, Janine. Yeah, this coming weekend, Friday and Saturday. Um, yeah, it was like an hour and a half rain delay two years ago. And probably more than half, would you say, Greg? More than half the concert left. And dude, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, they were like they were forced everybody to leave, but we wouldn't leave. Oh, yeah, we wouldn't leave. Not fucking leaving.
SPEAKER_01We rocked out after that for like another hour. It was really cool. So I got we got some good songs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we were just we we we did the the absolute whole like let's just pretend we're exactly where we're supposed to be. Yeah, and nobody will fuck with us. And that's ended up what what happened. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Danny P. What's up, buddy? Hey, congratulations to Alyssa, man. I know you're gonna talk about it, but yeah, awesome stuff.
SPEAKER_03I was just gonna say, man, I you know, I mean, you guys know too. I mean, you definitely know Sean, you know, going to school while parenting, while having a home life, and yeah, doing all these things, and she's never won for the spotlight at all, and never the only reason we're able to have a party is bring her on the pod, no yeah, is because her cousin did it. You know, she would have told me no, you know, but her cousin she won't say no to, and she said you have to have a party because you know it uh it you you need to be in the light for the hard work that that you're five years, man. Two years, uh two years in the program and uh three years of college, and then uh she starts her job on June 15th, and uh we're just super amped, man. It's a huge accomplishment. She got uh 96 on the uh state uh I think it's the ORT test or whatever it is to get uh license and all that stuff, and um everything's all done and free. She's got like two weeks off to just relax and take it all in and then uh start up work. So yeah, we had a little shindig party out in the out in the country out here in Ohio at her uncle's house, which was awesome. And uh they got a pool and all that stuff out there, so that was great. And then um today we had uh nice memorial day cooked up on the grill, and uh we had a little two hours of softball practice, and that's just that's about it, man. I mean, nothing really um that wild going on, but uh yeah, I'm just just super, you know what I mean. Uh what she did is you know super commendable, man. And cool journey. Yeah, she just never, you know what I mean. She was opening gifts and and we were taking videos of her and she was so embarrassed and hated every single second of it, you know. But uh she deserves she deserves to be in that light, man. She really does.
SPEAKER_01A huge accomplishment, absolutely. Yeah, it's super awesome.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and uh Corey, I'm I'm super sorry for your loss, man. But that's 98, man. That's that's that's uh anything over 80 for me, is like that's a good run, man. Like that's 98. 98's phenomenal, man.
SPEAKER_00That's yeah. What what more can you ask for at that point, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean another two years, maybe, but no, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_00I I I said she was going the distance at 100, but I want to I kind of want to live to be 100.
SPEAKER_02To get to meet your great grandchildren. That's that's pretty big. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool, man. Yeah, the only negative in her life was you, you know what I mean? That's right.
SPEAKER_02Still a disappointment, dude.
SPEAKER_00Trust me, we got we got some real disappointments in the family, so I should not be able to do that. I'm not I'm not quite the top tier, but I managed to get myself to like somewhere in the middle. Doing well.
SPEAKER_03Perfect. Yeah, we're good though, man. Everything's good. Let's go. I'm ready. Your hair looks good, Dan. Yeah, that is crazy. I didn't send it to you. I'll send it to you guys. I had a ponytail today. Oh, I saw it. Yeah, make sure you send that. Yeah, I'm gonna send that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, make sure you do the first ponytail feed up. Uh before I uh let Mr. GA Phillips have the floor. Uh all good on my end. Busy, busy weekend. We had a lot of stuff going on, fun weekend. Um, yeah, just a fun weekend. I was out and hit some recovery groups. Um, spoke at one. My wife spoke at another one, a different one. Went to a really cool restaurant, had a birthday party. We had a uh they were at a pool party today, like a barbecue pool party today. Played some golf as I always do. Good busy weekend, good, busy weekend. It was good stuff. Um, I will say, Corey, that our our uh mutual friend, I did a I did a little recovery talk last night. Um, and uh I got a comment from the crowd that it was one of my better talks, and uh it was kind of weird because I laughed, but and then like he laughed, and then like a bunch of other people laughed, but I think they were only laughing because we were laughing, and I don't think they any of them except maybe one or two, like actually knew uh what the inside joke was. But um, I was I was I was on fire, I think. I was very I I was got very passionate about it in a good way, in a good way. So he's rubbing off on you, is what it sounds like. Uh no. I mean I'm I'm that way regardless. So I was bringing hey, I was bringing the heat one way or the other, but it was just uh I was just gotta chuckle that he said it in open form like that.
SPEAKER_00We need we need to start we God, we need to talk about this one day. It's I I'm starting to believe that it's okay to not help certain people. Okay. And that clubhouse is one of them. Nobody there deserves the solution. We gotta leave them, Sean. You gotta leave, dude. They'll pull you in faster than you'll pull them out, okay? Not true. I met some lovely people. Oh, yeah, they're lovely, all right.
SPEAKER_01I met some lovely people. They smell all good on my end. Back to school tomorrow. Three more days of school up here, uh, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Yeah, summer camp starts next week. Sophia's going to a two-week environmental studies camp. She got uh selected. It's like a scholarship thing. They're gonna do like snorkeling and hiking, everything, everything environmental. She's pumped, she's going with one of her best friends. Um, family coming in town in a few weeks, and then the girls are going with back with grandma on a train back up to Pennsylvania. What? And then we're gonna work, yeah. They're we've got a crazy busy summer. There, my my mother-in-law is coming back for like two weeks with a bunch of other family throughout the two weeks, and then when she leaves, she's not uh she doesn't like to fly. Shout out to Lynn. She will get on an airplane if she has to. Uh she's a train, she's loves taking. She gets like a it's like a train where you get like your own room with sleeping quarters and you park the car on it and stuff like that. Yeah, it's legit. And so the girls, it's like only like 24 hours, I think. It's not like a crazy amount of time. And the girls are gonna go back with her at the end of June. Uh, she they're gonna go up there for like a week, and then Catherine, myself, and the baby are gonna follow the following week and drive up and and spend a week up there. So busy stuff. Looking forward to it. I got a golf trip coming up, end of June with the boys and my dad. I'm so excited. We're going to a place called Streamsong, which is like top 30. Yeah, it's like one of the top like 30 golf destination stay and play resort places in the country. It's extremely, extremely nice. Uh crap ton of golf, like just over four days, just a crap ton of golf. My dad and a bunch of recovery guys, um, just gonna be a blast. Can't wait. Can't wait.
SPEAKER_00I Greg, you don't golf, right?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I got a really mean putt-putt game. That's about it.
SPEAKER_00I I know I know Dan does. Sean has been turning our Tuesday nights into like three hours of talking about fucking golf. And I'm ready to stop fellowshipping. Just to be clear, after the recovery meeting.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, of course. But I've guaranteed recovery time, it's recovery Tuesday.
SPEAKER_03You don't yell four, you don't yell four in the middle of the middle of it.
SPEAKER_00I know damn well that you would talk about golf. God, I might do that to Corey next time just for the help.
SPEAKER_03You should, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01But anyways, Mr. GA Phillips, the floor is yours, good sir.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what's going on, boys? Um, I was gonna say that's that's probably why I don't have a lot of like dad friends up here because they all golf, and that's like the first question I get over. No, uh just dead straight look.
SPEAKER_00Greg's like, no, but I'll fucking bare knuckle box. No, I go to work and I provide for my family, you dick. That's what I do. That's what I do. You guys don't insinuate that I'm not doing that, please. Oh, I know. No, I'm not saying you're not doing that, but I'm just saying, like, what do you like? Oh, do you golf? Like, hell, what makes you think I golf? What makes you think hands?
SPEAKER_03It's the old man thing, man. Yeah, it's the old man thing, dude. That's uh I've made a lot of friends. It's like, oh, you want to play a round of golf?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. My hobby's hanging on the wall there, and I don't even touch it. It's terrible.
SPEAKER_03Corey, Corey, when you can legit go to a place and have no kids and no wife for four hours, and it's okay. I mean, it's probably the greatest sport on earth. Yeah, dude. It's it's the greatest sport on earth.
SPEAKER_00But the other the other 11 wives will find me. That was a banger. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_01One of those 12 is definitely gonna be a golfer. Sorry, Greg, go on. Go ahead, Greg. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02No, man. I uh uh busy week over here as well. Started a new job. So uh as with anytime that happens, it's an overload of information, and I'm just trying to uh process it all. Uh so that's a lot of fun. But yeah, it's it's cool. It's uh definitely uh gonna be a great career move for me, I can tell. Uh you know, it's just A manner of getting in there and getting shit situated. Um yeah, other than that, man, had had a pretty chill weekend, you know, got some painting done, went, you know, uh did some stuff with Lauren, you know, went out to dinner or whatnot. Um, let's see. Yeah, wedding planning, you know, all the same stuff. It was it was shitty up here, man. I don't know how you guys did for uh uh Memorial Day weekend, but it was not a great it was just we were just rained out all weekend. So it was bad of a bummer.
SPEAKER_03Today was nice, but it was sunny and hot as hell around here. Yeah, we had misery, man. It was it was so bad.
SPEAKER_02Today today wasn't too bad. It was it was foggy half the day, but then uh yeah, we got some we got some basketball, Peyton and I got some basketball time in, so that was fine.
SPEAKER_03So um oh Greg, is the uh the microwave still holding strong? You're in the microwave electrician?
SPEAKER_02I've not burnt down the house yet, so we're doing pretty good. Oh yeah. Um picking up new man shit all the time. So uh yeah, always with uh suggestions by Dan andor instructions.
SPEAKER_03So um we we will we will not pay over a hundred dollars for service in our houses.
SPEAKER_02Yep, and uh you know, touching on basketball, I'm not gonna uh go too long into a rant about uh the pathetic performance of my Cleveland Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference Finals. All I'm gonna say, and this one's for you, Dan, uh, but analytically, I should be a millionaire. You know that I should be yeah, I should be a millionaire probably two or three times over, analytically, of course. So um, you know, if that helps to make anything craziest thing I've ever heard of that one, it got he got roasted.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, dude. Why did he say that? Why did he say that?
SPEAKER_02Because I said to Dan today, I'm like, oh, I didn't know we were on fucking stump the schwab over here. Like, you know, I thought we were playing basketball. Um, but that's all I'm gonna. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna use a little bit of this uh, you know, uh uh fire I got in me. Um and I'm gonna I'm gonna get real serious here. We're gonna use it in a constructive manner, okay, and not to just blast the Cleveland Cavaliers or any other Cleveland sports team. Uh thank you for once again ruining my hopes and dreams. On to my real my real thing. Gentlemen, a real man does not concern himself with boneless chicken wings. Oh, they're more just convenient, easier to eat. You think that's why I order wings? You think eating wings is about convenience or being easier to eat? That's the whole point. If you finish your wings and you have clean hands, you're not eating wings, brother. That's called chicken nuggets. And we got a whole generation of so-called men that tell themselves that boneless wings are real rings, and that's a damn oxymoron. If there's no bone, there's no wing, brother. Simple as that. If I go out to get wings of my buddies, and I'm looking at the three of you too, but one of them orders boneless wings, I'm gonna get up from that table, I'm gonna walk out that door, and I am never coming back. You understand me?
SPEAKER_04Okay, well, what if we have to do that?
SPEAKER_02If you ever do that in front of me, if you don't have to take a shower after you're done eating chicken wings, then you're not doing it right. Okay.
SPEAKER_01If you don't go through five packs of wet wipes before you go to the bathroom to wash your hand, exactly.
SPEAKER_02You ain't doing it right. You think our ancestors were out here hunting boneless birds? It's disrespectful to your lineage that you would even think about eating a boneless wing.
SPEAKER_01And that's all I gotta say about it. All right. Okay, we will now open up this portion of the conversation to uh comments, questions, and concerns. Corey, you go first.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what if we order a steak from Denny's? Is that cool? Are you gonna come back for that?
SPEAKER_01Wait, no, no, no, no, no. Time out, time out. And try to send it back. Yeah, or it was still a steak.
SPEAKER_02It was still a steak, it was not an edible steak, but that was still a steak. All right. And goddamn, like Denny's, you can't you is is all you're good for is breakfast food? I guess so. I guess so.
SPEAKER_00I guess nothing else on your menu is so okay. I mean, they're yeah, no, yeah, their mozzarella sticks are garbage too. But it's like my you know, I don't know. But hey, here's the deal. I'm with you though. Boneless is nine times out of ten not the way to go. However, where were we, Sean? Applebee's with the other two guys up in Melbourne? Applebee's, yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah, because right. I did have boneless wings at Applebee's. I don't really remember why I chose boneless, but they were delightful.
SPEAKER_02But I wanna I I want to know where where where is that that that meat ain't from a wing. So why are we calling it wing? It's not wing meat.
SPEAKER_00That is true. It's it's a it's more of a uh it's a breast. It's like a popcorn chicken type thing.
SPEAKER_02So it's a fucking nugget. The only reason they get they they they call they don't call them nuggets is because they're scared that only 12 and below will order them, right?
SPEAKER_00That's yeah, that's it. Right.
SPEAKER_01What if it's Miller's alehouse and you call them zingers?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's different. Theirs are more like chicken tenders.
SPEAKER_03Zingers are the creamers, they're like chicken strips. No, zingers are the cream-filled gas station cakes that you get. All right. Well, there's that too. We can't call those zingers, all right? Zingers are classics.
SPEAKER_01I can tell you about another kind of zinger, uh, but um I think my mother-in-law still listens to this podcast.
SPEAKER_00So I also I also eat wings like a like a capital B-I-T-C-H too.
SPEAKER_03He takes forever. I'll say how many how many do you fit in the hands? He takes forever.
SPEAKER_00It's just I yeah, I you don't eat a fork, do you? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. He doesn't eat ribs with a fork either. Who the fuck eats ribs with a fork?
SPEAKER_01You we we know. We know, yeah. No pizza with a fork, no french fries with a fork, unless I'm stealing them off of somebody else's plate and I need a little extra reach. That's it. Yeah, I hear you, Greg. I honestly I can tell you this. I have ordered boneless wings in the past, but I don't I it's been years, multiple years since I have. If I'm gonna get wings, I I go I go for you're right, I'll go for it and get wings. I will I will you know steal a chicken tender from the kids every now and then. Don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_02Oh, don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll do it. You know, but uh yeah, I agree. I agree with you.
SPEAKER_02There's something primal when when two dozen freshly sauced smoking hot wings show out, show up right in front of you. There's something primal that takes over, and you just you gotta go, you gotta you the the feeling of ripping those things off the bun. The Gweeds.
SPEAKER_00Hey, can I can I fur can I further bitch about wings for a moment? And I and I because I want to know up there up north what you guys are experiencing. Because down here in Florida, there are no deals on wings. If you go to Buffalo Wild Wings, wait.
SPEAKER_01That's the worst place to get it. Dude, I was just I was just about to say there's a new restaurant by my house. It's been open for like six months, and between I have to remember, between like 2 and 6 p.m. every weekday, their wings are only 75 cents. And they're really good. That's so that's that's a good deal for these days.
SPEAKER_00That's the first I've I've heard down here because go in the B dubs, which yeah, I agree, it's not not the best place for wings, but go in the B dubs where you would think they'd have deals on wings. They don't. It's like 20 bucks, Duke. It's like 20 years. Remember they used to.
SPEAKER_01We used to go there after Brian's porch meeting, and they were they was on Tuesdays, they had 50 cent wing night.
SPEAKER_00That's what I'm talking about. No places do that, and they still do it in Jersey. I know that. So is it is it a smart thing?
SPEAKER_02Places up here will will do it, but it's not it's not the deal like it used to. I I mean I remember when I was in college, yeah, it was like 25 cent wing night, you know, something like that, you know. Maybe in college towns they still do it. No, but they they do they'll do stuff up here, but yeah, most of the time, like you go to a spot, what whatever, it's like uh you know, bar and grill, whatever, and yeah, you look at a a dozen chicken wings like 1899, dude. They literally, dude.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's ever since COVID, like they went up during COVID and then went never went down.
SPEAKER_03So what's the the best? I gotta what's the take care of then? I have never ever in my life ordered wings. I believe it.
SPEAKER_01I you know, I should have forget sometimes. I forget that you're weird.
SPEAKER_02You're a weird fucking package eater. You also don't believe in condiments. You don't you know like it's he doesn't have condoms. I mean, yeah, two kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but a few a few years ago, he walks into my house and he starts eating pot roast. And I'm like, pot roast? You'll eat pot roast. Like it's got all sorts of stuff like mashed potatoes and vegetables and gravy and shit. You'll eat that. Like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_03Just means I don't need boneless wings because I don't eat wings. Dan will never order boneless wings.
SPEAKER_01Never. All right, boys. Let's let's shift here uh for all those tuning in to hear the recovery podcast. Um so what we're talking about tonight is um how we deal with people that relapse, uh, especially if it's like close friends or family, or maybe how we deal with people in the rooms of recovery that go in and out. Um and you know, Dan, I want to start with you because I want you to, you know, how do we deal with Corey once he relapses? What's our first step? What do we do? What's our process there? But now let's talk about that a little bit. Like, like we the the the four of us are solid in our recovery. We've been sober a long time. You know, if we continue to do the things we're doing and we stay in the middle of this thing, like like we don't, you know, I don't want to say we don't have to worry about relapse, but the chances of that coming are are are much more slim. But we know lots of people over the years, past tense, present tense, current tense, future tense, that have been extremely close to us that have relapsed, and it's can be it can be a sensitive and touchy subject. So let's just let's just start the conversation there, Dan, if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I mean, uh, and like you said, I a little bit just touched on like like where we are with like when you have a solid foundation and stuff and sobriety and the things that you do in sobriety is more about quality of life than it is preventing relapse. You know, like everything that we do and stuff is to me, it's really about quality of life and how you want to live and who you want to be. But um, yeah, I mean, I've dealt with you know what I mean. I mean, I can't even count them, you know, how many people back and forth. And um, number one, no matter what, whether it's family, you know, because my family's deep-rooted in alcoholism and all the things and stuff like that, whether they're in the rooms, not in the rooms, or any of that stuff, you know, but people that have issues and all that jazz. And um being available, you know what I mean. That's the number one thing that I I I was always told is to always be available, you know what I mean, to be available to talk and to to always, you know, that uh like you know, when you're talking to someone that has relapsed or is calling you for help because you know this just happened and this was the reason, and they give you the whole story, and uh, you know, you just have to listen, man. You know, you just have to listen and really honestly let them take the stake of where they want to go with that, you know, because I can't force somebody, you know, it says in our literature and all these things, you know, you can't force you can't leave the uh the horse, you know, you can't make the horse drink, you know. You can leave the horse water, but you can't make them drink. And it's really just about being available. And maybe you'll have a six-hour phone call with somebody because they just relapsed, and at the end of it, nothing happens, and they go back out and they use again, and that's okay too. You know what I mean? And learning that that that's so that that that's okay, and that I don't have to like force the situation. But really, honestly, it's it's there's I owe in the beginning when I dealt with people that relapsed, well, there was people that we lived with or people that we're you know in treatment with and all these things and stuff like that. I always thought that I was so special and I could force my hand and I can make people do this, this, and this, and I needed to tell them what they do and and what to do and how to live. You know what I mean? But really, it came down to the fact that I just needed to be there and then that it would manifest itself and automatically, you know what I mean. If they want to get help, I will make I will not make them, I will help them get help. You know, that was really what it came down to because in the beginning I was always trying to force my hand that I was so great and I'm sober and I know what to do. So you need to do this. If you do this, this, and this, then you're gonna be good. But that's just not how it works. And it really is just being available and using, you know, what I do every day and all these things and all these tools that I have in my tool belt to be of the greatest use that I can to them, whether it's to get them help or if they just need a talking ear to stay alive for one more day. And you know, it's it's not the manifestation of like, oh, I'm gonna get them sober, taking them to rehab right now. Let's go, we're gonna start this train. It's it's not that, you know, because uh I've been to houses and places with people before that I just talked to them for like five hours. Did they stay sober? No, you know, I mean, but they stayed alive one more day, you know, and that's really what it comes down to to me is not force to make this like, oh, we're gonna do this right now. I'm Dan. Great Dan's here, we're gonna do all this, you know, and um just just being there, being being available. It's a it's one of the greatest gods uh of God's gift is to be available nowadays.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good stuff. Greg, what about you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it sucks. Uh it it's it it really does. It sucks. And the thing is, is you know, I always have the thought in the back of my head is but for the grace of God, there go I, you know. Um, but that's a tough pill to swallow, especially when it's somebody close because it it pisses me off, you know, I think. And um you know, I've I look, I mean, no names here, but like the somebody that's gonna stand up, you know, uh with me in my wedding, you know, it was one of those guys who who did it several times, man, and it and it just sucked every time watch him go through that. And but I mean, I guess the learning lesson from that, um, especially like earlier on in my in my sobriety when that kind of stuff was happening is like, yeah, I can't save anybody, you know. No, no matter how much I'm trying to uh you know uh preach, pull them out of a dope house, you know, pull them out of a penthouse, uh, you know, doesn't matter where, but like um I I can't I can't force any of that. And it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen on my terms. Um and I almost have to really, you know, um we all know the serious the serious nature of all this. And I think that that's what uh what upsets me the most is because like yeah, you're you're you're playing around fire, especially, you know, they say like a head full of recovery and uh uh a stomach full of booze or an arm full of dope is a really, really bad place to be. You know. Um so we we've all seen that sometimes when somebody goes back out, especially um, you know, after multiple years of sobriety, like usually that ends up being a pretty um pretty steep decline pretty quickly. Um so it it it sucks and and you know having to come to terms with the fact that like that that person might not be here, you know. Um I've been guilty about about it early on, but certainly in in like you know, fully distancing myself from that person, um, and you know, whatever for for you know my own peace of mind or whatever the case may be. And then um, you know, but it it's also like Dan was saying, like to be available is is the best service you can do. Um you know, don't come off preaching, don't come off like you're trying to save somebody that that you're incapable of doing. Um you know, but just to just to be there for somebody if they need it, you know, remind them that hey man, I don't want to see you dead. You know, um don't want to go to your funeral, that kind of stuff. Although what we call that and what our literature calls that is frothy emotional appeal, but I still have no problem saying it because it's the truth, you know. Um hope they come back around, man.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it also says frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices, which means that maybe every now and then it can suffice, so I can say it, like you said, Greg. I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say what needs to be said with no kind of attachment to that it's gonna have an effect. Corey, how did Gabby deal with you when you relapsed?
SPEAKER_02Which time? Handcuffs and a ball gag, baby.
SPEAKER_01The first or the fifth? Yep.
SPEAKER_00No, Sean, I I haven't relapsed yet.
SPEAKER_01We're still I uh for all those listening, I'm just kidding. Corey's still sober.
SPEAKER_00I'm barking up the tree though.
SPEAKER_01At least for today he is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm planning it out carefully. Is what I'm doing. Anyway.
SPEAKER_01What do you what do you want me to say? I want you to talk about relapse, how we deal with people, what and anything you want like about relapse and how do we deal with people? How would you want to be dealt with? What are some you know some tricks that you've not tricks, but like some best practices you've used, what are some not so good practices that you've encountered or tried?
SPEAKER_00How I'd want to be dealt with is a fun thing. Um But I don't really know if I have an answer for it. But well I have I have certain things in my head.
SPEAKER_01I can talk about I can talk about theoreticals with when it comes to like what Catherine and I have talked about for sure, which I know you and Gabby have too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's the thing. Gabby and I did discuss that years ago. And uh I'm more and more convinced because I know what I will do, right? I know exactly what what's going to happen. Um's gonna happen. I I do. I do. I do know what's gonna happen. Are you high? No, I've relapsed before, so it's the same thing happens every fucking time. It's like end up using daily and doing whatever I need to do to get money to do that. Um not anything, but hell. I don't know. 20 bucks. Yeah, 20 bucks is 20 bucks. Um here's the deal. I Home Depot is free to rob, so I don't I don't know why people do certain lengths, but they just do. But anyway. Um But yeah, so Gabby and I have talked about it before, and and dude, I I kind of still stick with like hey, you may as well just kick my ass out ASAP. You know what I mean? And I'm sure that's easier said than done. Like, I don't know if she'll be able to pull the trigger on that, but like that's kind of where I'm at with it. Like, just fucking can me because I I just I need swift consequences. They need to be like bad. Like, I hope my dad stops talking to me quickly, you know what I mean? And and probably not. I'm sure you know what I mean, like i and to turn this around, I guess. I can think of a couple buddies over the years um that have had their struggles that were in recovery or and and have had their struggles, and it is just increasingly frustrating as time goes on and they don't get it back in recovery or whatever, and you just see we see it all the time with with people that were trying to mentor, with friends that come in and out you just see people put their hand on the hot stove constantly thinking it's going to be different this time making decisions that lead them back to it, you know what I mean? Like and it's like no, don't don't do that, don't don't go, you know, and uh the stove is still hot. Yeah, and it's very, very frustrating. And dude, like I I won't blow a spot too much, but um a close friend that we're all that we're that we all know um had has had his struggles over the years, and last year he fucking OD'd um after taking a trip that I said, hey, like I don't and I'm and this isn't a Corey's always right thing, but like I had a bad feeling about this trip he was about to take. And I was like, hey, this doesn't seem right, man. Like I don't you probably shouldn't go alone at least. And and it was like, oh well I'm not, so and so's going with me. And I was like, okay, and then it became oh well so-and-so is not going now, it's just me, but I'll be alright. And I'm like, You're gonna die. I said that. I was like, you're gonna die. You're gonna fucking die. And did I know that? No, I'm not God. Was I kind of acting like God in the moment? Yeah, I was so to my own fault.
SPEAKER_01If God was a brick, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00That's but you know what I mean? Like, I was playing God, I was, I was definitely, you know, did I have any business saying that? Maybe not, but a friend of mine, and I was like, you know, fuck it. Like you're I don't believe in what you're doing right now. Like this is talking. It was about work, and I was like, work's not that important. It's not. You don't need to do this this early and like So we did and I think uh his exact words say his exact words, but he he was essentially going to prove me wrong, is what he said. I'm like It's not about proving me wrong. I just write it. He went and a couple days later he OD'd and his mom found him, thank God before it was too long. Um this is a long way of bringing you all to what I did after that. And it had nothing to do with him getting sober, but the approach with him to that point had been, okay, well I'll go to or let's go to a let's go to a meeting or let's talk about what you should be doing in your recovery, because I'm your friend and we should I'm gonna reinforce all the positive things that I'm supposed to say to you or whatever. I fucking dropped him like a bad habit at that time, like after he OD'd. I didn't speak to him. His wife called me a lot, asked for some guidance. I tried to be of service that way. I didn't speak to him. Every time he said he wasn't and I even said like me and I'm not I'm not a big treatment guy, we know that. But I said I think you should go I I think he should go to treatment. He never goes to treatment. If he's not willing to go to treatment, he's probably not willing to do whatever it takes to get sober anyway. Because that was like the thing he didn't want to do. And uh I didn't speak to him until he decided to make that I won't go more into detail, but he kept trying to even after that. I was like, I'm not fucking talking to him. Like we've we've been doing this for years. And he didn't he didn't though he was sober. And he's sober today over a year, and I'm proud of him for all that, and that's great. And he even made amends to me. And uh which was a a nice gesture and all that. I don't feel like he really owed me one, but I said, listen man, the only thing I want to say to you is I hope you know that like that that wasn't necessarily like it wasn't personal. I wouldn't I wasn't sitting there going, I don't ever want to talk to this fucking asshole again, I want nothing to do with him, I hate him. It was strictly like we become the loved ones. That's what I'm trying to say. Is we become the loved ones, and I needed my dad to shut the door in my face. I needed my mom to shut the door in my face, and I needed everybody to drop me like a bad habit. Like our literature says the alcohol the alcoholic has to be pretty badly mangled if he is to recreate or if he's to uh what's I don't prefer, I forget to say recreate his life or whatever or something. If he's to get better the alcoholic has to be pretty badly mangled if he is to accept his way of life. Maybe not like that doesn't mean externally all the time. It means like I need to feel alone. I need to feel like the safety nets are gone, you know. So sometimes I feel like we have to be the ones to do that to people too, you know.
SPEAKER_01So so I think Court, what you just said there about like it's not always external. I I have a hard time with that. I I'm not sure I agree with that, and uh not that I disagree with you, but I people say that like, oh, as long as you've hit bottom enough for you, that's all that matters, and people's bottoms look different. And like, yes, on the macro sense, I agree with that statement, right? I agree, you know, my my wife lived on the streets of Baltimore, but she never went to jail, right? So it's like not one doesn't necessarily equal the other, but I for I I do think that we have to hit a pretty bad physical bottom because and I'd have to like sit and think, and I'm sure I could could disprove my own theory, but most of the people that I know that I've known for many, many years that have been in and out of these rooms, that cannot stay sober, that put 60, 90, nine months, a year, two years, five years together, 10 years together in relapse. Like, but mostly the ones that are bouncing in and out and getting six months a year, whatever it is, and they've been doing that for 10, 12, 15 years, they don't really hit physical bottoms. They they have like one thing that happens to them, you know, externally, and they almost get like it scares them back into recovery, but it's not there's not enough depth and weight there for them to actually completely surrender and submit to the program and go on a spiritual journey through the exercises that we have and truly stick around. They get scared into sobriety again, they go through all the motions, they a lot of times they say all the right things. But if you really truly were able to gauge the question of do they believe to drink is to die, for the most of them, it's no, or or there's some reservation or circumstance, or yeah, but or if this could only, or and you know, whatever that happened. So I, you know, and again, and and those external bottoms, those physical bottoms, they do look different for people. I will say that, right? Like, like I went to to jail half a dozen times, but I never went to prison. Um, I was homeless multiple times, but I never slept in the woods, you know what I mean? Like, like, so there are different stuff, but um, yeah, I don't know, man. I I a lot of people that I see, like some somebody, mom and dad, wife, husband, somebody comes in. The because treatment, yes, has its purpose. We've talked about that many times in this podcast, but a lot of times before the physical bottom gets really, really bad, because let's make no bones about it. You're if you're homeless and you haven't showered in a week and you're in and out of jail, and you know, whatever, like you're gonna be pretty rough spiritually, mentally, and emotionally too, right? Um so I I don't know, that's just uh like somebody comes in and cushions that fall, the treatment cushions that fall, the detox cushions that fall. Um yeah, and I have a a story to like a quick like uh analogy um or allegory to tell, but I'll save it for the end.
SPEAKER_00So I think like 99 out of a hundred times that the person who achieves sobriety and stays sober long term will be badly mangled physically and externally as well. And you know, because you gotta lose things, you gotta lose things, and a lot of times the material things go long before everything else, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, when you still have when you still have that outside stuff, whether it's family, I be a wife, or yeah, well, it's not even that you're cushioned, you're looking forward to getting back to that, right? You're you're not fully focused on your recovery. Because if I just flew back to Connecticut after 30 days, I would have been right back out. Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Dan, Dan Alex said to me once early on in recovery, she said I wish you a slow recovery. And and she further explained that that she didn't mean like I hope it takes years for the obsession to go away. She meant I hope you have to work for everything that you get back. I hope it takes time and I hope you appreciate those things. I agree. Yep.
SPEAKER_03She's the she's the reason I didn't do 30 days and go home.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great. So I've heard a blame.
SPEAKER_02But no, I I mean I I agree with what you guys are saying. I I don't uh you know it's it's not on me to say what that stuff is for each individual person. Very true. Because again, you know, um uh guys like us and the soccer mom, who's definitely an alcoholic, uh, you know, um are gonna have two different versions of probably what that is. So um I'll capitulate to that. I agree. So it certainly not, but but that's why, like, and and how often do we hear it, guys? Like in in the rooms of recovery where like somebody relapses, they go back out for an indeterminate amount of time, they they come back, or or maybe they don't come back, we just we see them out or we hear them, or and it's and it's the constant we get the blame, right? We're the ones that turned our back on these people, we're the ones that uh you know, um you you've been you've spreading lies, you've been da da da da. Nobody picked up the phone for me, nobody reaches out to me, da da da. And it's like you know, at a certain point, you know, Corey said it in a group chat earlier today, but like uh one of the famous lines I love from from one of our recovery speakers, but Bob till you drop, dude. Enjoy it or don't enjoy it, but go out there and and do your research and figure it out, and and maybe you make it back and maybe you don't, but like the I it the the the victim mentality of that whole thing. Um, so it would you know whatever it is that you're you're losing or not losing, you know, like go let it rip and see, and and maybe that's what really does solidify it. Like the the gentleman that Corey was just talking about sounds like it's solidified whether that sticks long term, you know. I I I know that dude, he's a great human being, and I hope it does, you know, but um, you know, that it's not up to me, you know.
SPEAKER_03I I'd always tell people that's one of the greatest things too I heard is that is um is that dude is like you don't have to go back out and do the research and see if the stove's still hot. People will do the research for you, man. Just stick around long enough. That's it. You know, I mean I really honestly like you know, whether it's you know, people that pass away or anything like that, it's one that my mentor is like, you know, and we talk about all the time manifestation of positives and negatives and all that stuff. You can use all this stuff to help people, man. You know what I mean? It's just a matter of how you're gonna look at it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I do agree that that like people can learn and use the good stuff to grow. Like we always talk, you know, we hear a lot, you know, and again, getting back to some some very what I would serve, you know, some well-meaning people that that may not know what the F they're talking about, like oh, like we grow by the speed of pain and we learn by other people's mistakes. And I I don't disagree with any of that. I I truly don't. When somebody has five, ten, fifteen, twenty more years and they relapse, I pay attention. Uh, I kind of already know what happened, I can pretty much fill in the blank, but I pay attention. But I also can learn from success and doing good things and positive things. I can take from those just as much as I can learn from the quote, you know, bad examples. So I think that's an important thing to note. You know. Um, what do we so shifting gears a little bit? I know we're nearing the end, but it's kind of on the same thing. Like, what do we think about? So there's a new trend now in like a lot of the world. Um these drinks that like they make you feel like you're drunk without the alcohol. Have you guys heard about this stuff? There's like these NAs. No, there's like actual drinks now that they don't have any alcohol in them, and they're like low calorie because everybody's concerned with that. But they they like give you euphoric effects without having actually any alcohol in them, and I don't even think they have like like C BD in them or anything like that. Um, but I see them. I mean, maybe it's fake, but I see them on my YouTube reels all the time, the little sponsored ads. They're always there.
SPEAKER_02There's there's a there's a couple of in your refrigerator. No, there's like I've I've tried uh this one called Hio. All right, my my girl got it. It's like a social tonic, and it's like Ohio, yeah, like H-I-Y-O, Hio, you know, and uh I mean like they're they're like tasty. They're they you know, like they're uh no, they they kind of taste like sparkling water, like like flavored sparkling water, you know. But um it says on there that you're supposed to like feel the float, as they call it. And I mean, I I have no idea because I looked over all the ingredients, like there's nothing there's nothing in them like that's mind-altering or anything like that. So I don't know what what it is that you're supposed to feel, but I mean it was just a somewhat tasty beverage.
SPEAKER_01And now they have like these these actual like medications and pills to like help you drink less or quit altogether. Oh, I saw that. You know, you saw it's like it's like uh ore health or something, OAR. I'm sure there's multiple variations of it, but it's it's doctor prescribed, it's it's medication for like a hundred bucks a month or whatever it is. Uh you can get it online. Um, and it says it's I love I love the percentages. 73% drink less in two weeks. You know what I mean? It's like um drink less alcohol, yeah. That's what they're meant to say. You know, and there's always been there's always been an abuse, and then what's the one for the opiate blocker that people take? Vivitrol, Vivitrol. Vivitrol, the shot, yeah. You know, and those are that's a not a separate conversation, like those aren't um from what I understand, those aren't like they're not mood altering necessarily. Well, I guess they technically are a habit for they're government sponsored, though.
SPEAKER_03That's what they do in courts.
SPEAKER_00Vivitrol's like Vivitrol shot. I've done Vivitrol. Vivitrol's like nothing.
SPEAKER_02It all all all Vivitrol does is like a once a month shot. Yeah. And if you were to uh ingest opiates, you're not gonna feel the effects of them whatsoever. B Rabbit was on the Vivitrol shot.
SPEAKER_03B Rabbit, as in uh no, as in Blue Hair.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I thought you meant like MMO.
SPEAKER_03You see what I did there, Corey.
SPEAKER_00I just dude, I Sean, and that's what I was gonna talk to you offline about. I just had a whole freaking debate about maintenance shit and whatever, and it was wild. But um Vivitrol's different though. I I think Vivitrol's different.
SPEAKER_01Um so is it different like it's different, or is it different like hey, Vivitrol's great, take it?
SPEAKER_00I don't think Vivitrol's a bad thing. It like so if somebody was asking me like their honest opinion about what their recovery was gonna look like, I would say and and like okay, so you're already on Vivitrol. Okay, I'm gonna go through with the six month course of Vivitrol, I'd say okay, that's fine. That's fine. You have a plan to not be on it one day, it does not get you high in it, there's no euphoria.
SPEAKER_03But isn't like Suboxen, it's not Suboxen.
SPEAKER_00Now, listen, here's let me let me go. Go, go. I would argue, I would and if that person wants to do Vivitrol for the rest of their life, which I'm not even sure that anybody recommends that, I'd be like, well, don't you eventually want to be completely like no crutch at all? Like there's a life out there where you can be on nothing for to keep you sober, right? But I'm not say but I wouldn't tell that person that they're not sober after on Vivitrol for six months. Things like Suboxen are totally different. Yeah, I fucking get a script of Suboxin and I sell it on the street to get heroin, or I buy Suboxin to get high on.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's a daily maintenance, though.
SPEAKER_00It's different. Yeah, it's daily, it's way different. Like there, but that's my point is like I'm I'm trying to separate Vivitrol and Suboxin all together. Yeah, like Vivitrol is different in the maintenance category of things, I think.
SPEAKER_01So can you take Vivitrol and go through the spiritual exercises and have a spiritual awakening?
SPEAKER_00I think you have a way better shot on Vivitrol than you do Suboxin or Methanone or anything like that.
SPEAKER_02Way better shot because again, we're not talking about anything mind-altering, yeah, moving on, but but however, I okay, go ahead. It is uh, you know, it kind of like Corey was saying, is like it's it's all well and good in the in the in this day and age where um opiates are what they are and and fentanyl is what it is and everything like that. I don't see an issue with when somebody first shows up to treatment, hey, we're gonna put you on this 90-day course or a hundred and eighty-day course of this medication, it's gonna be a once once-a-month shot, and what that's gonna do is it's gonna put a safeguard in there, and I think it's again all about responsible uh education in this matter. This is not a long-term solution, but this is for you to help you in in your early days with things like cravings and uh um you know, uh the the fact that it it blocks the effects of opiates. Now, here's the the inherent problem with it. Okay, it's it's not gonna like you can still go get opiates and you can still ingest them. That's not gonna mean necessarily that you um you know your your your body's still gonna be under the uh effects of the opiates, it's just you're not gonna get high. But if you were to ingest a certain amount, we all know what opiates do, right? They attack the respiratory system. So if you if if if if somebody's that determined to be like, oh well, I'm gonna go get high, but you can still die from an overdose without actually feeling high beforehand. Which would suck. Right, right, exactly. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01If I'm going out because of a heroin overdose, I want to feel good before I go out. Yeah, yeah. So we're unfortunately we've reached our our uh we've reached our climax, boys. No, we've reached the end of our our show. Um I have I have thoughts. I have some thoughts. I I don't disagree entirely with what a few what you have said, a few of you, but I have I have some thoughts that we're gonna unfortunately have to keep the the listeners uh clamoring for and waiting um because it's not gonna be it's not a short conversation, it's nothing I could really say and not let you guys kind of like respond to it in uh a quick fashion. So we'll we'll cap it for now. Uh I'll say this. Uh I want to say this and I'll read it, I want to read a quick quote. Um, I'm glad that the four of us uh have found true sobriety. Um and and we all understand that where our the source of our power comes from, uh and that it's not from any of us. And the recovery programs that we have been members of and we have worked, and that's led us to the lives we have today. Because I'm not I'm not positive. I know we have no monopoly on God, but I'm not positive that there are too many other successful, like truly successful uh ways of getting clean and sober than in what we do or similar forms to what we do, because there are multiple fellowships, you know, it's not just it's not just exactly the one we're in, but along those same lines. So um as the far as the relapse part goes, there's a quote in some of our literature, and it basically says uh he failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life. Um, to his consternation, he got drunk half a dozen times. That's six, Corey, half a dozen, half a dozen times in rapid succession. And and it's it's the two men that helped this person after kind of talking in this text, and they say, on each of these occasions, we worked with him carefully reviewing what had happened. So it says that this man relapsed six times in rapid succession, whether he put a week, two weeks, a few days, I don't know, a month, two months. And on each occasion, they sat with him carefully reviewing what happened. And I think that's really important because we don't shoot our wounded. Um, recovery as a whole doesn't give up on anyone, even if tough love requires us to stop talking to someone for a little while or stop this recovery, the fellowship, um, the people, the literature, like it doesn't give up on anyone. Uh, because if it did, we know Corey would have been the first one off the boat. But if it did, a lot of us and a lot of people we know and love wouldn't be here. So it's all I got. It's all I got. Thank you for listening. Um, shout out to our listeners. Please like, follow, and share on all socials at TrudgeReport Pod. Email us, TrudgeReport Pod at yahoo.com. Send in your mailbag request for topics, questions, comments, or any of these handles. Remember, we are all here. If anyone wants to talk about recovery or our experiences, or if you're struggling with some form of addiction, or if you just have questions, remember um that we are brought to you by Janine and Celemix Podcast Management, our wonderful producer and editor. We thank you. Good night, God bless. We memorialize all those we have lost. A wise person who is a military vet once told me don't thank, don't thank combat members and service members on Memorial Day for their service. That's for Veterans Day. Memorial Day is to remember those that have passed and those that have given their life. Um, so thank you. Trudge the road, see you next week. Peace.