Trudge Report

Ep. 125 - Hooked vs Habit: Is Drug Addiction Choice or Disease.

• Shawn, Greg, Corey, Danny P

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Welcome back to this week's episode of Trudge Report. Thank you for supporting the show. This week we recap Corey's quick trip to Jersey for his father in law’s 65th birthday and his run in with World Cup traffic. Danny P's new cornrows, Maya's birthday celebrations, a Harry Potter bedroom makeover, Post Malone reviews, Fourth of July plans, and epic golf trips, and America's birthday. 

In the recovery segment, Corey brings a social media post that claims addiction is simply a choice, sparking one of our more honest and straightforward conversations. We unpack the difference between making the first choice to use and reaching the point where that choice no longer exists. We share when each of us realized we couldn't stop on our own. Why recovery demands accountability without living in shame. We also explore whether recovery itself is a choice, the importance of taking responsibility for our actions, and why making amends is about healing rather than making excuses.

"I used to think freedom was the ability to do whatever I wanted. Now I know true freedom is the ability to choose not to do the things that destroy me."

— Unknown

Don't forget to like, share, rate, and download the podcast on all of your listening platforms. Check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel, @trudgrereportpod, for other content surrounding sports and trending topics. Trudge on good people. 

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SPEAKER_00

Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to another episode of Trudge Report. We are a recovery-based podcast. My name is Sean, and I'm your host, joined by my good friends and fellow Trudgers. Please remember to listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Videos will be posted each week so you can watch episodes on YouTube and Facebook. But as always, please be sure to download on your listening platforms. Remember to like and subscribe on all social media outlets with the handle at TrudgeReport Pod. This podcast is brought to you by Stellamix Podcast Management and Danny P's new hairdresser. Um gentlemen, good evening. Uh for those who will never watch this episode. Um Danny has cornrows. Danny, give us a little give us a little show real quick. Head down, thank you.

SPEAKER_02

You know who nice you know who the hairdresser was, right?

SPEAKER_00

Well, let's I was just gonna say let's kick it to you first. How are you? What's going on? And yes, tell us a little bit about the the new do. Yeah, I'll start.

SPEAKER_02

I'll start first with uh I'm doing good, man. We had a good week. We're hit we hit 102 today, so the uh the summer heat wave is coming. It's coming coming in hot. Um today is Maya's last day as the eight-year-old. So tomorrow I will be turning nine, and we'll be having a nice full birthday party, thank God, because it's gonna be scorcher out. Um so yeah, we're in the into all that, you know, wrapping all the gifts and all that jazz. Um we'll see. Oh, over the weekend was pretty cool, man. We built this, uh, we did this project, me and uh one of my customers, and we built this bed and a bookcase and redid her son's room who was away at sleepaway camp and uh surprised him when he got home today.

SPEAKER_01

And that was that the Harry Potter one that I thought?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that dude, that looked great.

SPEAKER_02

Right, yeah, so cool, man. And we we whipped it together in like a week, man, you know, and she she helped me, she helped me the whole time, you know, and it was super cool. Uh I was working, we were working on it until like 9 30 last night. And uh she took a video of him being surprised and stuff like that. That's that's what's that's why I love my job right there. You know, customers like that and that kind of stuff, man. That's uh uh I absolutely love my job. But yeah, it was super cool and super unique. Um Alyssa works going good, man. She's good to everything's you know falling into place, man. It feels uh life's feeling really good. But yeah, so the cornrows, as we did at the softball party, we had a little softball pool party. And our um our guest that we had on was the one that did my hair, Miss Leslie. She's the one that cornrowed my hair, and she's gonna redo props to her for knowing how to do that, dude. It didn't even like she didn't even pull a hair or nothing like that. Like it was like total, like she said, she said she does it all she did it for people all the time. It was like legendary. But I'm having her redo it on Friday, and we're gonna paint red, white, and blue on the roast. So we're ready to Sean's face. Total, total Danny move. That sounds about right. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, we're good, man. I'm kind of glad to see you guys faces and uh let's celebrate America this weekend, baby. Yep. Very cool.

SPEAKER_03

That uh cornroast has to be in response to uh one of our viewers who commented several weeks back on on one of the the posts. What they say, what they say. He said, What in the actual fuck is up with dude's hair in response to uh a Dan clip? So is uh is that we listen to our viewers around here.

SPEAKER_00

We yeah, maybe take it in. Bring more of it. We welcome it. Um yeah, is this a viewer that we know, Greg? Or is this I have no idea who it is.

SPEAKER_03

Good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I wonder if it's uh Corey's number one fan, running man 23 or whatever he was. I hope I hope he ran off a fucking cliff.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I I don't know how to say this without sounding inappropriate, so I'm just gonna say it. And to all of our listeners, I truly, truly don't mean this inappropriately. I thought doing cornrows, I didn't think white girls like are supposed to know how to do that. Like I really, truly didn't. So, like again, mad props to her for actually knowing how to do that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's probably all those all those defendants she had.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. Like, I can't pay you money, but you can come get your hair done for an entire year. Oh no, she's a legendary, man.

SPEAKER_02

When I showed up to the party, she said she's like, Oh, we're gonna do cornroasts. I thought she was joking. I showed up, man, she had the hair ties, everything, she was ready, ready to roll.

SPEAKER_03

Wow, wow, good stuff. GA Phillips. Well, I haven't culturally uh appropriated anybody, in in case you guys were wondering. So um no, it's good to see you guys again. It's good to be back. Uh on a little hiatus there. Um Father's Day episode was awesome. Enjoyed it immensely. Thank you. You guys killed it. Uh-huh. I missed you. Yeah, and uh it's been uh it's been a busy week, man. Um, but I do have two things to report. Number one, my new favorite videos, and if you guys haven't seen any of these, do yourselves a favor. With the uh the World Cup being here in the States, some of my new favorite algorithm feeds have been uh foreign people trying American food and being blown the fuck away by it. I've seen a few of them. Like Chick-fil-A is, you know what I'm saying? Um I I watched a German guy who's like smuggling like four bottles of ranch back home like it's heroin, you know what I'm saying? Like through the airport. It's it's it's great, it's absolutely phenomenal. Um, and also it makes you feel like the world is healing because you know, there's people on there saying, like, man, we thought America was like a terrible, terrible place. You guys are all so friendly and awesome, and you know, and I've been hearing that a lot.

SPEAKER_00

I've been hearing that a lot from people, and I don't have social media, so that's pretty cool that I've been hearing that a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So dude, there is they fucking the they might win Dan over to the sport.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was watching today, penalty kicks, Germany and uh hold on. Corey, one second. Wasn't oh no, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01

You can you can pull it over me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I was. Yeah, it was it captivated me. It's double overtime overtime and then penalty kicks. I was in it, man. I was in it. The place was going nuts. I was like, I can't. I mean, I felt like someone was about to get stabbed, like they were going insane.

SPEAKER_00

I love the energy. They kept panning to that little Paraguayan kid in the stands, just going nuts, dude. It's such a Paraguayan face, too. Awesome. Sorry, Corey. I didn't know where you were going. I wanted to get that in.

SPEAKER_01

No, that was riveting. So go on, Greg.

SPEAKER_03

Uh yeah, and uh second off, so uh our our good buddy Mark and his uh wife came into town and we all went to go see a uh post Malone. And I am happy to report. I and I did not go into it expecting much. I'm like, yeah, whatever. I like Posty. It was phenomenal. It was it was really, really good. He's a talented son of a bitch, dude. I I didn't think so. I did not think it was gonna be because like you know, most of the post Malone stuff I've heard was the older stuff, a lot of it's auto-tuned, it's you know, studio albums, whatever, you know, and then you get him on stage and you put a band behind him, and the sound was right, and the pyro was amazing, and the whole production, and like the dude actually has a phenomenal voice. Yes, you know, like when you can when you can really like key in on it, you know. And he can do he can span different genres of music too. Oh, yeah, yeah. There was there was country, there was rock, there was uh, you know, obviously the the rap and it also, but even the rap sounded like with the band behind it, sounded amazing, you know. Um Jelly Roll, on the other hand, was terrible. So uh, you know, guys, I've said he I'll probably I've said this before.

SPEAKER_00

No, Greg, you're not alone. I've said it on this here podcast. I think he's overrated. I'm sorry, I'm not down with the whole shtick. I think he's overrated.

SPEAKER_03

He so uh some of it had to do with the fact that they had the volume turned up entirely too loud. So it's uh you couldn't understand what he was saying half the time. Um and they kind of fixed it for when the post came out, but um yeah, it was it was just very to me, you know. I didn't I didn't like it, but uh post Malone was awesome. And if you have the chance, uh go check it out because it was it was sweet.

SPEAKER_02

Did you not like his music or did you not like the show that he put out?

SPEAKER_03

It wasn't it wasn't like the the music or the show. The well here's the thing. Um some some of his songs are all right, you know what I'm saying? They're catchy, they're on the radio, you know.

SPEAKER_00

I think they all sound the same.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but then you like he he did this he did this medley of all this different deserve rate.

SPEAKER_01

That's probably true too. Here he goes.

SPEAKER_00

Actually, actually, I think we're uh probably appropriately rated by how many followers we have.

SPEAKER_01

No, we suck way more than we think. I promise. I don't know. I don't think any of us think we're that good.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, I don't know, man. Jelly didn't do it for me. It it just was okay. I I think I described it to Corey and the boys as exceptionally mid.

SPEAKER_00

So I yeah, yeah, I don't know. He just all sounds the same. Yeah, I think people love his his whole uh deal, his whole story and everything like that. I don't like it. No, I know you don't, but I know I I know no and I understand he admits he admits he's California sober, he he doesn't lie about that. I do respect that, but I still don't I still don't like it.

SPEAKER_01

We got people that are coming to our recovery groups that are the same way and not admitting it.

SPEAKER_00

No, true, but you know Cori, my long lost buddy, I miss you. Feel like it's been forever. Yeah. How are you doing, sir?

SPEAKER_01

Not not long enough. Um I I'm fine. I fucking drove to New Jersey. I drove back. The most amount of traffic I've ever hit and hit and hit. See, I'm f I'm shot out and I'm tired. Um When did you get back? Five in the morning. Today? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

I know that feeling, brother. That feeling props to you. You're like a zombie land. I know that feeling.

SPEAKER_01

And you went to work today, didn't you? Yeah. I had a meeting that I scheduled now. Now you're doing a podcast. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I have more work to do. And I was working before this podcast. What'd you do in New Jersey?

unknown

Nothing.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's right. He meant you missed the show.

SPEAKER_01

Um, it was it was Gabby's dad's 65th birthday, and he had so crack with Gabby's dad. Yes, Sean. Yes. And we went up there and had a little barbecue, and that was cool. So, but you know.

SPEAKER_00

And this is the man that doesn't like birthday parties, right? I don't know, does he? Didn't you say that? Didn't you say he's like not one for having birthday parties or he doesn't like them or something like that?

SPEAKER_01

I don't remember commenting on that.

SPEAKER_00

Um I have. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Probably. You gotta have more than me.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um And I know there's not a bunch of happy fucking people in our little circle, Sean. I can promise you that. They all die anyways. They might yeah, they all die, dude. Who cares?

SPEAKER_00

They all die anyways. I almost I almost said that to a group a different group of people over the weekend, and I don't know of how well it would have been received, but I certainly laughed at myself before I said it. Well, do you do they want you to lie to them?

SPEAKER_01

I mean I've used it, Corey, because of you. Yeah. It happens. It does happen. I just had a f an old school friend. This is serious, by the way. I'm gonna bring us down real quick right now. Uh had an old old school friend fucking die when I was up there. One of the days I was up there. I think it was Saturday. She she's 30 years old, dude. Uh I've known her since first grade. She fucking ran in ran into a back of a flatbed. Her kids somehow by miracle survived. Thank god dude.

SPEAKER_00

I can't I can't do kid deaths, dude. I can't watch shows about it. I can't movies, I can't listen to it in the news. I just can't do it, dude. Well, thank god they survived. Sorry for her.

SPEAKER_01

No, yeah. It's it's just I'll say that the only reason I'm I mean, you know, like not many of our listeners would even know her or anybody from my childhood for that matter. So like the only reas really reason I'm kind of bringing it up is one, because it's sad and just like rest in peace to her and and condolences to her family, but two, it's I went I I had an eighth grade class of like eighteen kids, and I realized after she passed away that three of those eighteen are dead. And that's just kind of weird to me. You know, I mean I'm sure it's not weird and and it's just life, but like it's just weird. It's a weird thing. So but you know I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Isn't that isn't that all the more reason to make use good use of the time we do have on this earth?

SPEAKER_01

There you go, Sean. I'll be not negative for a moment and say this. I feel bad for myself all the time. All the time. All the time I do. And it's when shit like that happens that you think I I have a chance to take my shitty situation, whatever I'm pissy about in the moment, I have a chance today to do something about that, and that is precious because you never know when that chance is gonna vanish, right? So like that's that's definitely something anyway. Sorry to make it all heavy over here. Um other than that, uh World Cup traffic sucks, soccer sucks, Dan. Um sat in that shit for a while. The cheesesteak I had was well worth it. And gosh, what else? Um I don't know. I don't want to stop talking. I want this to be about me.

SPEAKER_03

Did you get it to John's roast pork?

SPEAKER_01

No. No, no, no. I've never actually had that.

SPEAKER_03

I've never had it. Well, wait until August. We're we're all gonna do it together. It's it's better than a cheesecake. It's a cheesesteak. I know you don't believe me. But you will. Better than what? Better than a cheesesteak.

SPEAKER_01

Oh fucking that's crazy. I don't know, Cory. That doesn't work. It doesn't work. It never ends, you know? It never ends. Anyway, yeah, Sean, I I got back at five in the morning. I did go to work 'cause I had a meeting. Now I'm back at it. But dude, the traffic was wild. And guys, guys, the entire east coast it was raining yesterday. And I know because I drove it everywhere. I was like, dude, like I want to go back to Florida where I can walk across the street and it's sunny. You know? Yeah. Yesterday the whole East Coast was raining.

SPEAKER_00

Well, well, welcome back. We're glad you got back safely. I'm sure her dad appreciated it. Seeing the grandkids and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah. It was a good time.

SPEAKER_00

Good. Well, I on the complete opposite end, and and sorry for your your loss and whoever, the family of that woman, I had uh a quite an experience over the last four days. I just got back from a place called Streamsong, which is top 30 in the United States of golf resort destinations. I took my dad and 10 other of our recovery friends. We had 12 of us in total. We left Thursday morning. We got back last night. Streamsong is out in the middle of absolute nowhere in Bowling Green, Florida, uh, built on an old phosphate mine, um, which plays a part in the course, but it was a fucking unbelievable time. Like, and I've been, this is my fourth, this is my fourth time, fourth year in a row going on some type of golf trip. And I went to Pinehurst. And for those of you who don't know golf, Pinehurst may even like ring a bell because it's a most iconic, famous, probably top three famous golf courses in the country. Um, and Streamsong definitely rivals that. Just not them as much history. They have three courses and a short course, another fourth course that's like a short walking course. They're building another course. It's nothing but golf. It's not like your country club resort where like you bring the kids and the family and there's a water park. It is golf and golf only. They got a handful of restaurants on site, a handful of bars on site, they got all kinds of other they do have other activities. Like you can go fishing and clay shooting, and they have like a big game room where they have ping pong and foods ball and cornhole and just TVs everywhere. Awesome amenities, like beautiful, beautiful amenities. Although I will say the building itself, in the daytime driving up to it, looks like Arkham Asylum from Batman. It's a horrendous, horrendously designed. But at night, when it's all lit up and they have the logo lit up, it's it's pretty spectacular. But guys, I I don't even I'm gonna try to describe this. And I know Dan, you have a little more appreciation. Remember how much elevation, Dan, we had in Las Vegas? Yeah, like this is Florida, dude, and there's just as much elevation, if not more, because the phosphate mines, obviously, like think of like a coal mine with all the dunes and the berms. We had these berms that were literally four stories high. Like you're hitting, you're standing on a green, a green site, and you have just nothing but berms around you. Like you're you're teeing off 200 feet above the actual ground off this berm. Like it is, it was unbelievable. Like, truly, truly uh not not the experience of a lifetime, but definitely one of the best experiences of my lifetime. Maybe, you know, hopefully I have many more of them, but it was awesome. I played really good golf, which is not always the case at new courses when they're really hard. Uh, I mean, dude, it it's just I can't even it would it would be like going to like Greg, Corey, pick like your four favorite, like four out of your ten favorite musicians. Maybe not the top four, but four out of those ten, and being able to go see them at four of the most amazing venues ever. Like that's kind of what this was for me. Um had a blast share with my dad, obviously, it's super special. The first day we were there, there was a we there like we played in the afternoon, because we got there in the afternoon and there was a weather delay, and there was a fucking lightning strike like seven miles east of us, or seven miles in whatever direction, on the very outskirts of the property, and it lit the whole it fucking lit it on fire, dude. There was just this huge fire like seven miles off in the distance. The sky was black, there was like debris, ash all over the course after a while. Not like all over, but like it really was. Dude, it was it was wild. It was just wild. And they they it was like on the very outskirts of the course. And I go, Oh, are they like talking to the staff? I was like, Oh, are they are they got the fire department putting out? I'm like, nah, they're just monitoring it. I'm like, what? They were just like so. They had security and the fire department just literally watching it hop to places and it eventually, you know, it eventually went out, I guess. But it was uh and we still played golf, which was even cooler. Um just a great experience. Uh just wonderful time. And now I'm home, and it was wonderful getting home to the kids. Although the girls are in Pennsylvania with my mother-in-law, so it was just Catherine and the baby, but it was wonderful getting home. And I went to work today, and I go to work tomorrow, and then after our recovery meeting tomorrow night, Corey, and after our business meeting, I get back in the car and we drive to Pennsylvania. So busy couple weeks for me. But um Well, it's probably still raining, so happy to do it. Be careful. It's funny you say that because um a good buddy of mine, I'll shout him out. Our our friend Wade Davis, who moved up to Indiana, is gonna be in Pennsylvania later this week. And he we're gonna get together and play golf up there. And I called a golf course near my wife's childhood home that I played at before, and they said, like, oh, it's been raining here for days, but it's supposed to dry out, and it should be good by Friday. So I believe you, Corey. But phenomenal weekend, dude. I'll I'm gonna actually have Janine. I'm gonna send Janine some a couple two pictures, and I'll have her post it up right during this segment so people that are watching this will be able to see just a couple that'll that won't even do Danny. They won't do it justice, but just imagine like the visual. Um just awesome, awesome, awesome courses. So so much fun. And that's a show. No, I'm just kidding. Um what else? anybody else got? Do we want to talk real quick about this thing in Canada? The 51st state fake. Huh? Well, yeah, the 51st state. Did you guys see that? You guys, I'm sure you didn't read the thing because I never read what you post when you send me a link. But in there's a town in Canada. Greg, do you have it? Can you pull it up? Uh yeah. There's a town in Canada that has now like put a law into effect that trees are actual, they have like human rights. Rights. They have like life rights, which I agree that a tree is a living organism. I don't disagree with that. Um, but I don't know why. Human human organism is the key. Like yeah, they have it. I think it literally says they have it like life rights or something like that. Yeah, no, I read it. Yeah. Yeah. Um what do you think about that, Corey? I'd think that we fact check this. Like is Oh, it's real. It was on Twitter. It has to be real.

SPEAKER_03

Well, they're calling it X now. They're saying it's called X. Um vaudrill. Yeah, we're not going to pronounce it. My my French is rusty. Located roughly 40 miles west of Montreal, unanimously passed a resolution on June 9th declaring that trees possess the right to life, natural growth, integrity, and regeneration.

SPEAKER_00

You can get in trouble. You can get legally in trouble for like harming a tree. Yeah, a tree hugger now will be arrested for rape. Have you been thinking about that one all day? Oh no, not at all. Not at all. I think it literally just popped in my head. Yeah, I don't know if I have much on it. I just I just thought it was yeah, it's wild. It seems kind of stupid now to bring it up while we're recording, but it just earlier today I was like, oh, we gotta talk about this. I don't know. At least it has to be mentioned. I just think it's it's it's wild.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, Canada's just yeah. I mean, it's you know, it's a free health care, and people wait 77 months for it to be seen by doctors, and like this doesn't surprise me at all. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01

I'd I'd avoid the fucking doctor. Why would you wait?

SPEAKER_03

This is we have we've fact checked this. We're we're sure it's real, or we don't we don't quite know. It was oh, I definitely didn't because I definitely didn't fact check it. He goes on to say a notable precedent in Quebec is the 2021 granting of the legal personhood to the magpie river by the regional government and the Inu council of and this is this is how it looks like it's pronounced. You UConn it shit. I don't know if that's real fucking tribe out there, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Sean, you sent us a link that's gonna make our phones have a virus or something, dude.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't I I totally I totally didn't fact check it.

SPEAKER_02

I just like skimmed over it real quick. I definitely pump based before I clicked it because I was like, oh wait, man. I was like, what is this from X? Sean from X?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I don't know if this is who are you? I get so I get on my like Google news feed, I get sometimes articles from Facebook and X. Um yeah, but I don't know. That's funny. We don't have to spend much time on it. I just was I just thought it was kind of funny. Um all right, tonight, power of choice. You don't want to tell America happy birthday? Are we gonna record? Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. It's this Saturday. Yeah, sorry, I'm still in the month of June, Corey. Um you know, I'm living one day at a time over here. I'm not foreseeing too much into the future, you know. I'm at Christmas right now, so but yes, uh, when this episode negative. It'll be the second when it comes out. Oh, we but we won't record until I got I see what you're doing. Okay. We will not record again.

SPEAKER_03

We fucking love you.

SPEAKER_00

We fucking love you. I got a shirt. Oh, it's in the it's in the it's in the wash, but I got a uh uh 250 Florida shirt today. Love it. My wife made me get it because I need it for our trip, she said.

SPEAKER_01

I got a Bucky's blanket. Ooh. An American Bucky's blanket.

SPEAKER_02

I still haven't done Buckeys. American flag cowboy hat for her birthday at camp tomorrow. It's life-changing, Greg.

SPEAKER_00

Really, Dan? Yeah, American Flag Cowboy hat, I like it. Her choice, man. Yeah, she's like, I want to wear the cowboy hat. All right. Your birthday. Do what you want. What do you guys, yeah? Before we get into it, then what are you guys planning? I mean, I'll be in I'll be in Fenwick Island, Delaware for the Fourth of July. My wife's family has uh it's not far from where they live in Pennsylvania, but they have a beach house, uh, a couple different beach houses in that area. So we're going to PA for a few days to my mother-in-law's house, and then we're we're you know, we'll join the rest of the family in uh Fenwick Island, Delaware. What are you guys doing for Fourth of July?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I'm kind of uh inspired by your your stream song trip. So I think uh, you know, in in retrospect, I'll probably hit Kanye West in in Berlin. Um sounds like a really good time to meet. So um maybe just some fireworks, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

We got we got the fire uh fireworks on July 3rd, and so we'll do that. It's over here by the university right down the road, and then uh Saturday's the parade. And Maya's going in uh the summer camp uh uh trailer or whatever they have there.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, they got a like a float?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, they got the summer camp float, she'll be on that, and then uh my customer like puts up a tent and got donuts and coffee, and like everyone lines the streets and all that jazz. So the only thing that sucks is the parade starts by our house, so we can't park at our house. Like, oh, I have to park my car like at the store down the street, and you can't like get out of anywhere, but everything's walkable around there, so it's all good.

SPEAKER_03

We got a a new rooftop spot called Double D's Honky Tonk Smoke House. So I think we're we might uh might head on over there watch the them fireworks.

SPEAKER_00

Owned by the same people that own Hog Heaven, I believe. Hey, I thought you were gonna say Uncle Bobby's.

SPEAKER_03

It's it's right up that alley.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so speaking of which, on on the trip, again, middle of absolute nowhere, like the closest actual town in this in the town of Bowling Green or where we were is the resort, a power plant, and like phosphate stuff. That's it. You have to drive like 20 minutes from anything. And it's expensive food on the resort. And one of the nights we wanted to get out and go explore. So we found uh Smoke and Joe's barbecue, which was about 25 minutes into town, in the town of uh uh Wachula, Wachula, Florida. Oh man. Um I want to say this the people at Smoke and Joe's effing phenomenal food, wonderful hole in the wall. Like it's like an ice cream shop, uh souvenir shop, and a barbecue joint all rolled up into one. Best damn fried ochre I've had in a while. Unbelievable barbecue. The woman, I bless her heart, I forget her name, nice as can be. Just her in there cooking with one other helper who was a young Asian girl, which was just wild to me. Um, but just a phenomenal uh establish, like one of those places that inside the restaurant are just like Christmas lights on the walls, but not for Christmas purposes, like just for like for setting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it was great, it was fantastic. So shout out to Hog Heaven and all their counterparts.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_00

Corey, what are you doing 4th of July? You having to get together? Who cares? We all die. Getting arrested. That's what I'm gonna do. Doing what? You're breaking out in handcuffs? Breaking out in handcuffs. Hell yeah. We're gonna we're gonna that's a good segue, actually, what we're gonna talk about tonight.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, um, I don't know. I well, I kinda know. We will inevitably have people over, I'm sure, and eat food, and then at some point somebody's gonna persuade me into lighting off big ass M80s in my street. That's pissing off my neighbors. So make sure everybody parks in your neighbor's yard.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And after you light it, run.

SPEAKER_01

Make sure you run after you light it. Um, I'm I stay away from them. I act like it's not even my house when we do this shit. Like, I don't know, dude. The homeowner just left. He went to the liquor store. I don't that's perfect. Yes. I hate it. I hate it so much, but it's also fun.

unknown

So cool.

SPEAKER_01

I'm also are you guys down with like America documentaries and stuff? I love getting into some Revolutionary War documentaries around this time.

SPEAKER_00

Just what we call history.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's a part of history. I mean, there's a lot of history, but yeah. I do too. I do too. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

My dad loves that stuff too. Oh, it's so fun. So fun. So yeah, happy birthday.

SPEAKER_00

You should watch you want a good American history documentary, watch on Netflix. The program, cons, cults, and kidnappings.

SPEAKER_01

You ever seen American History X? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Watch Remember the Titans.

SPEAKER_00

Great movie. Learn something, right? Remember the Titans, phenomenal movie, too. Love that movie.

SPEAKER_03

Nothing to do with the Fourth of July.

SPEAKER_00

Less than the strong side. But it has to do with America. America. Corey, would you like to present our topic tonight since it was your like the way you worded it in our group chat? I I uh What did you think?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure. What do you think we're gonna talk about though? Like, do you did you know what I meant when I brought this up? Do you do you know which angle I'm coming at this from?

SPEAKER_00

I took it as Corey's fucking pissed, and now we're gonna spin it into a good topic for the Corey went to another meeting at that particular clubhouse where every where he claims everybody smells and he's now mad again.

SPEAKER_01

No, that place is god awful, dude.

SPEAKER_00

Anyway, I I would love to hear your thoughts on what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01

So this is where it comes from. Every now and again I think about this, and I always forget to propose it for a topic, and this is not gonna be organized whatsoever because I didn't I don't do that.

SPEAKER_00

It never is, don't worry.

SPEAKER_01

That rip, no way. But anyway, Sean, the plus side to not have social media is not seeing posts about from addiction being a choice. Yes, about addiction being a choice or not a choice, right? Yeah, and we've talked obviously, I don't know what number episode this is, but I'm pretty sure we've talked about drug addiction in every single episode. And if we haven't, actually, maybe we haven't.

SPEAKER_00

No, we haven't early on. We definitely didn't. There was some.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely not, you know. That's but for a while now, yes, we have. Yeah, so so a lot of episodes we've talked about drug addiction, and so the listener may be aware of how we feel about this particular topic from the jump, but from this angle is what I want to talk about. So a lot of times on Facebook you get people who I guess they think they know things, right? We see a lot of political talk, we see all kinds of stuff, religion, you know, the main controversial stuff that everybody claims they know everything about. Um even I'm guilty of that stuff, right? We probably all are, but uh anybody that has any brains usually doesn't um throw it out there for to to attract arguments, but some people do. And this is an example of a post of of what I want to talk about tonight. So this post, it's a very random post. I don't know this person. I just literally knew if I searched the words I could find the post uh to use it as an example. So this post says drug addiction, by the way, drug is all capitalized. D-R-U-G. All capitalized. Drug addiction is a choice, exclamation mark. It is not a disease. Before you stuck that needle in your arm, popped those pills, snorted a line, or drank, you did not have an addiction. You created a habit that became habitual. Okay, and now you're dependent on the drugs. Addiction is a choice, allowing addicts to believe it is a disease only enables them and gives them an excuse to feel sorry for themselves and continue doing what they're doing. You don't have a disease, you have a weak mind. You have no self-control, all you have is your drugs. Uh I don't feel the least bit sorry for any of y'all. Y'all be mad at be mad at yourself, not me.

SPEAKER_03

So I think I think a couple things there. We spent a lot of years being mad at ourselves. So I got some about it.

SPEAKER_01

I got some I got a little bit of an outline here. Uh no, I said this wasn't very organized, I'm sure I'll find it. I love the prep work. Oh, it I was on the toilet doing it. It really wasn't that long. I love it. That's why I do most of my prep work for this podcast. There you go. So you guys you guys read or heard that post, and and that is a actually a very good example of uh many posts that I've seen over the years. I've unfriended people over this stuff. Not not to like carry on hard feelings towards them or whatever, like it's not really that big of a deal, because what do I care, you know? But there comes a point where it's like I don't know, I I I don't want to read too many posts basically slandering something that I am, right? So I I end up on friending somebody over it and just you know, I don't know. If they were a good friend in the first place, I I probably would care even less. But so the question is, is addiction a choice? Like, do we have a choice in the matter? Um and let's kind of actually let's kind of start with this. Anybody here believe or have anything to say about this? Was your first drink or drug a choice? Was the first one you ever took a choice?

SPEAKER_00

Um I know no no no I I like that. I like that. First off, Corey, I'm I'm thank you. I'm proud of you for doing some doing a little bit of work here.

SPEAKER_01

Anytime I I surpass mediocre just a little bit, Sean's like, good, great job, buddy. I'm impressed, bro.

SPEAKER_02

This is Tuesday, I'm fully impressed right now.

SPEAKER_00

I So the short I don't know. I was 13 years old, I was sleeping over Blake Penillo's house because I had a major crush on his sister Blair Panillo. Blake was all right, but Blair I really liked. And I was hanging out with Blake and his stepbrother, this kid Ryan, and Ryan had pot, and Ryan whipped out the pot and was like, Hey, let's smoke. And then they both looked at me, and Ryan goes, Oh, you probably don't smoke. You're a goody goody. And I, of course, was like, I am not. I'm a baddie baddie. Uh I'm a baddie baddie. Shake that thing. Shake that thing. And so I guess the first time, I guess the first time was a choice, but it was a choice spawned of I don't want to be left out, I don't want to be labeled the goody-goody or the nerd, or whatever the case may be. Um, and that's how it started. And like I absolutely freaking loved it. I loved the way it made me feel. So I'll pause there. What about what about you, Greg?

SPEAKER_03

Um, I I do think it was uh a choice. Like I I I consciously chose. I was 12, you know what I'm saying? And very much the same thing. I was I was sleeping over at my buddy Chris's house, and we broke into his mom's wine coolers, you know what I'm saying? I'm pretty sure uh he had he had like a one-hitter box. So yeah, it was like it was like the double double double dip in the same night. Um, but much to Sean's, like I fucking loved it from from jump. And I don't think that I've ever honestly felt when it when it came to drugs and alcohol, I ever felt peer pressure ever once before. Like, like every time I was like uh chasing that with some enticement, you know. Um I that that's just the way that I feel. But sure. Was the first one a choice? Yeah, absolutely. I made the I I reached out with my hand, I took it, I put it to my mouth, yeah, and then I kept going. So sure. Yeah, but I but I also think too, and I'm not to cut you off, Dan, but like I also think that some of that stuff that you read is just semantics for bullshit's sake, if that makes sense as well.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, I mean, I think a lot too, like what you read is like, you know what I mean? That's why a lot of people, family members and stuff like that, uh uh they end up hating us because that's what they believe. That that we have a uh a right if we if they didn't think we had a right to choose, people really wouldn't be that angry. They'd be more understanding that we're sick and we have it. You know what I mean? Like I really, I really believe that, you know, because that that like explains a lot. But yeah, I mean for me it's the same thing. Like I think the first one was a choice. Like I had uh in me, like I didn't drink until I was like 20 because of my father who was an alcoholic and stuff. But that's the same thing. Like I was at my buddy's house, and my sister like threw us a bag of weed that we could smoke around the corner and stuff on a sleepover and all that jazz. And I think like obviously however old I was like 12, 13, whatever, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like yeah, that was a choice, but it's rooted in all the same stuff, you know. I mean, I was not okay with being myself, you know, like Sean's saying that I was trying to be the gangster, I was trying to be the hardcore, yeah. I'm smoking weed, bro. You know, I smoked my first cigarette of 10. Yeah, we're smoking cigs in the woods, you know what I mean? So it's all rooted in the same stuff, you know what I mean, to not be okay with myself.

SPEAKER_00

That but that and Danny, that that's a good point because I uh but I see here's the thing I didn't even know that I wasn't okay with myself because literally two seconds prior to them saying that, I think I was okay with myself, you know what I mean? But then, like, you know, I don't know. That's that's actually kind of wild. That that just kind of enlightened me, Dan.

SPEAKER_01

That's so Sean, to your point, what you're saying too, uh, I heard a speaker once say something like, you know, like when I was in kindergarten, you know, I didn't know that I needed a drink. But I you know what I mean, but like, but like there wasn't there was still there was like something internally wrong, but it you know, you don't know it, you don't you don't have the consciousness of it necessarily. Um but I can look back and and think about and maybe it's somewhat normal, but I can look back and think about where I felt out of place and and just you know unique or whatever in in a bad way, you know, or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

But um right so I pose and and uh the going along with that same line there, then I pose the question is you know, whether or not we chose that first drink, right? Does any of that matter in the grand scheme of things? Knowing what we know about ourselves, knowing what we know uh uh scientifically about alcoholism and drug addiction, would it have happened regardless, regardless of of our choice to pick that up, would that have happened somewhere, some way, somehow, somewhere along the timeline, would it have happened anyway?

SPEAKER_01

That's what I wonder is like was I kind of was there a uh somewhat of a predetermined destiny, the way I was wired anyway, to to to overindulge in something, you know what I mean? Something.

SPEAKER_02

I believe in the genetics of it. I I a hundred percent believe in the genetics of it. I mean it's vertical my whole family. You know what I mean? Like it really is. It's like and and uh like the three uncles I have that are like so you know what I mean, like it's been an issue through like every single line of my family. I really, I really believe that.

SPEAKER_00

I I also think too, like it and this is kind of I'm gonna play from a little bit of our literature here because it talks about like um most and I'll paraphrase, but most of us wouldn't we wouldn't have the desire to stop essentially while it's still fun, right? Like I I wouldn't have this overpowering desire to stop when I still think it's fun, when I don't think it's a problem. And by the time I do think it's a problem, and I do want to stop, it's it for for me, for us, it's too late, right? I've already crossed that quote line, but it's that idea of like I I wouldn't have, you know, we talk we've talked about this before. I've lost the power of choice in drink, but what I haven't lost the power of choice is am I gonna go to that meeting today? Am I gonna go meet with my mentor? Am I gonna go work with a new guy that I'm mentoring? Um, am I gonna do my morning routine? Like those are the choices that we do have. But when I when I was drinking and when I first started, and even in those first few years, or when it was still quite like fun, but also getting a little problematic, I still had no, I had no bandwidth, no idea that like okay, maybe at this point I could stop on my own willpower and without you know too many consequences because I'm not that far severe yet, I'm not that far gone yet. That was not anywhere even remotely on my radar. Again, by the time it is, it's way too late.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I so along with with this whole thing, and I think a part of our recovery too is uh is the process of realizing that we may not be like other people, meaning normal drinkers, the people have the luxury of drinking with impunity. Um so there's this question here that says, Does everyone have the same risk of becoming addicted? And I can I think I say no. I say no as well, and it's because I I mean you could you could make some arguments for I I just I have personal friends that have done all the same drugs that I've done. The really good ones and the not really good ones.

SPEAKER_00

And dude, these guys will tell you like really good friends or really good drugs?

SPEAKER_01

Both. Okay. Um and these guys will tell you like that they tried heroin once, puked, felt great. He's you know, what one guy even says it felt so good on I I never wanted to do it again. Yeah, he is definitely not an addict, that guy. Right. That well, that's exactly what I'm saying. And he leads a pretty normal life, right?

SPEAKER_03

So that's where I would question to that it becomes do you have the power to stop on your own will? You know? And and uh because again, we w knowing what we know about opiates, let's say just opiates, I can give everybody on this planet opiates for 28 days in a controlled environment, and every single one of those people, because of the way human biology reacts to those drugs, will be physically addicted to them and will need weaned off in some way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_00

But the but they can get wean, but to your point, they can get weaned off medically or in that setting walk away and then just totally leave go back to their normal life.

SPEAKER_03

Right. You know, and again, it's it for them, it is the power of choice because they can choose when and how they want to stop. Where for people like us, it just doesn't work like that. And I'll I'll give a perfect example, something I still struggle with to this day. When I go out to eat and I order too large of a plate of food, right? It's not because I'm I'm worried about the the $28 I spent on the entree. I wouldn't have gone out to eat if that was the case. I it it my brain tells me because that food is in front of me, I have to eat it. I have to eat it. I ordered it, I have to finish it. We don't do doggy bags in this household, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00

I and and and Lauren is gonna learn that quick if she hasn't already.

SPEAKER_03

But it could, you know what I'm saying, if if if gotten way out of control, you know.

SPEAKER_00

I've done many, many things to excess long before I did drugs and alcohol. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And did they burn your life to the ground?

SPEAKER_00

No, they did not. They did not.

SPEAKER_01

So I so I want to ask you guys this then. So I think that that obviously points to that some of us have you know, we we uh we got the bullet, right? We we have the genetics to where when we try a certain drug or whatever it ends up gripping us for a long time and we we lose the power of choice. Um whereas some other people that try it do not lose that power of choice, right? At what point for you guys can you can you quickly summarize like uh when you started losing that power, or was there a switch, or was, or was it in hindsight? What happened you know, Sean?

SPEAKER_00

Um God, that's that's a good question. I think it was the summer between my 15th and 16th year on this earth. Uh it was it was shortly after I moved to Florida. Um, I I think in Virginia, I was just mostly smoking weed and doing a little drinking, but mostly weed. I do think with sufficient reason, maybe not, now that I think of it, but let's let's say for let's say it's true. With sufficient reason, I think I could have stopped or moderated. Um, once I got to Florida and I started really drinking, um, like when I really started drinking multiple times a week and and with the sole goal of getting as drunk as I could, that summer I emerged, you know, my birthday's in July, turning 16. That summer I emerged. I believe I emerged a real alcoholic. Our literature talks about the moderate drinker, you know, take it or leave it. The hard drinker who may show all, and you alluded to it, like show all of the signs and symptoms on the surface of the real alcoholic, but uh with sufficient reason can stop or moderate. Uh and it says that, you know, but the real alcoholic we lose all power of control, etc. etc. But the very key point in there it says the about the hard drinker, we we may or may not become a continuous hard drinker, but at some stage of his drinking career he loses all control. I hopped right over the hard drinking phase. I was a I liked a lot of marijuana, I loved some marijuana, couldn't really handle my alcohol, drank every now and then, but got sick. But once I started really drinking and I learned how to drink, I jumped right over that hard drinking phase to that alcoholic phase. So that was it for me. I was I was I didn't and again, I didn't know it for many, many more years that I didn't have the power of choice, but I believe that if not before, definitely that summer of 2004.

SPEAKER_02

What about you, Dan? Um I I can't pinpoint the pinpoint the years, but uh it was definitely yeah, when um obviously they all blur together. Yeah, they all blur together, man. You know what I mean. Um when I settled down, man. Um so like I, you know, I sold drugs my whole life, and you know, I was always partying and stuff like that, you know, whether it was coke or this and that and the other thing, drinking. We're you know, we're going on vacations, we're partying, living it up, you know, then for three days I won't do anything and I'll be fine, da-da-da. You know, but when I when I got married and we bought a house and like I settled down and I was kind of like out of that phase, you know what I mean? That's when I really like I noticed to myself, like, I need this. You know what I mean? Like to me, it was like I need this. Before it was just like a lifestyle, and I you know, I didn't really like notice it and stuff like that. But that's when things started to turn and things started to go down the hill. And also like the uh the the th the scandalous things I was doing to do, you know, because none of that really happened before because I was always selling drugs and I had money and it was always free, or it was this, that, and the other thing. Or I didn't really but that's like to me, like really when it turned when I was like really like like substantially lying every single day. You know what I mean? To do this, to do this, to do this, and like that for me was like really the tur the turning point before that. It was just like partying and a lifestyle and had a bunch of people around me doing the same stuff, and it felt like no big deal. But like I felt like that was really when when I settled down in life, I I didn't actually settle down.

SPEAKER_03

Let's say, yeah, like the same as Sean, kind of like the summer between like freshman and sophomore year for sure. Um we were, I mean, i it it was the constant chasing of things, right? If we didn't have booze, we we need to find weed for today. If we can't find that for today, we'll go steal some coracedons from Walmart, you know. Yeah, the triple C's, baby with triple C's or grab some Robotus and Robotrip. If we can't do that, we'll we'll go to my buddy's mom's house and steal her Xanax, you know, and and snort that it's like the constant, constant like need for more and more. And it and it was for me, it was that just that like whatever the substance was, I could get in me and I could just take a breath and I could feel okay. Um and yeah, so that was when I really hit the ball running. It's crazy, like the you know, to say that and and acknowledge that now because it was it was another 16 very long years of like kind of like Sean says, like telling myself I was okay, I'm not the problem. It's the police are the problem, or the you know, the the these stupid laws that we all have to follow are the problem, or my family getting on my case for no reason. Though those people are the problem, not me, you know, um for for a good long time there.

SPEAKER_01

So I I think uh for myself real quick, it was it was sometime in high school that I was like I was getting ill from withdrawals and stuff, and that's the first time it dawned on me that like oh shit, I've been doing this a while. And uh, you know, at first I thought it was just sick, and then I was like, no, this is different. Um and then like I I don't even know the first time I realized that I didn't have a a choice in the matter, like it was it was a while after that, but um but I want to ask this too, because this is actually I think this is even more important and uh to the point of addiction either well to the point of addiction being not a choice is did you ever want to stop but couldn't? Right? Like isn't that the factor that kind of separates choice versus non-choice? Because and that's the thing that so I'll say this first, and I'll I'll let you guys but that's the thing that I I would see like certain like friends from school post about like they're obviously angry with like their loved ones and stuff to your point, Dan. Like and they're they they take it to Facebook that like you know you motherfuckers are you know choosing to burn your life down and take everybody down with them and you you know you're doing this to everybody and and like that anger is honestly justified, right? It's very justified because we do do that. Um but what they don't know, I think, and how could you know unless you've experienced it, right? That's why one alcoholic can help another alcoholic and one drug addict can help another alcoholic, is that that there have been times, right, where I've honestly wanted to stop. That I that I thought I was stopped and I wasn't and it wasn't so simple as I changed my mind. There was no reason I I I'm pretty strong-willed in most areas, right? But that was the one where I wasn't. So like I got a couple more questions on here that I want to get to, but quickly, if you guys want to say anything about that, like, did you ever want to stop a couldn't? Yeah, pretty simple.

SPEAKER_00

When I desperately that's what makes me alcoholic, right? And I know you guys know that, but for our listeners, when I desperately, it's not the crazy, insane, incredibly tragic, stupid things I do when I'm drinking. It is when I desperately, desperately want to stop and I can't. When I am stark raving, stone cold, sober, I'm never gonna do it again. I finally got a little bit of clarity, never going back, desperately want to stop, and I always start again.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, always, man. I mean, that's uh when when my son was born, you know what I mean? I said that hardcore, man. You know, I was like, I have to. I have to.

SPEAKER_01

See, that gives me chills, dude. That because that's what other what else is strong enough in this world but a parent's love, and even that, right?

SPEAKER_02

No, dude, I I remember being in the hospital, right? My son was born, da-da-da, and we were there for like five days or whatever. And on the fourth day, I remember stealing my access card to go to the ATM to go. Like that's that's that's what it is to the T right there. Exactly. Gregory, you got anything?

SPEAKER_03

Same same thing. The whole the entire last year of of um my active addiction was yeah, um those those periods of just absolute remorse, couldn't couldn't bear to look at myself in the mirror, wanted to stop, couldn't do it, wanted to stop, went to detox, weaned myself off, stayed in my locked in my room for three days, you know, and and like Sean said, it was like at that point, yes, I am absolutely stark raving mad, sober, right? And like I want to like and and no matter what, I'll I'll hawk somebody's jewelry, I'll steal somebody's ATM card, I'll do whatever to get my fix, and then then the real remorse hits, and then it's like, man, I just I just want to blow my brains out because I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. So I I gotta I think this one's a doozy, dude. I got two more questions here, and this one I think is kind of tough. Is recovery a choice? I'm gonna let you guys say something about that first, because I might not even comment.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna say yes. I think it is a choice, and but I'm willing to hear the opposite side of that argument because I think it goes back to what we said earlier, like going to a not going to that meeting, or I guess going to that meeting is a choice. Um, but now that I say that I think I know where you're getting at, Corey, like if my life is on the line, and if I have lost the power of choice in drink or drug, and this is my only option, then it can't it can't be a choice. I have to do it, right? I I uh you know, we know what happens to those who choose no to recovery. But I think for the purpose of the conversation, I'll say yes, recovery is a choice.

SPEAKER_02

I decided I I go a no, go ahead. You can comment. You're like, I decided I'm gonna comment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, shoot it. I think I'm gonna go with a uh healthy answer of I'm not entirely sure because I think that's where I'm at too.

SPEAKER_00

Because great, great question.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's hard, right? It's kind of like quite Greg's question a couple years ago, does evil exist? It's like, holy shit, never thought about it like that. Is recovery a choice? I don't know. I don't really think I chose to get sober the day I got sober. It it seemed very intervening divinely, maybe.

SPEAKER_00

No, but I think the actions that we have to take to get sober, those are a choice.

SPEAKER_01

I yes, be but being separated, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

That's why I I think I maybe misunderstood then. Like that initial day.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm a big question.

SPEAKER_00

That's the last thing I wanted to do was get sober the day I actually got sober.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's definitely it's two part. That's what I was gonna say, man. It's definitely uh going to recovery meetings or you know, whatever you're doing, like that is not a choice. Staying is the choice. That's to me like that's the way I look at it. Staying and doing the stuff is the choice. Right. Like we definitely have the choice today to do the right things. Yeah, right. You can just go to the meetings and do nothing. You know what I mean? You don't have to do any work and stuff like that, but actually getting sober and doing the work, that's a choice. Greg, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03

I think I think recovery in a whole is is fundamentally about uh making good, uh thoughtful, empowered decisions, and um I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01

Alright, last one before I crash the plane. I mean land the plane. Um so this wasn't this one's not even as good, but it's still is something to think about. Where's the line between accountability and shame, right? Because this whole thing that we're talking about tonight is essentially that like, hey, I'm a drug addict. Like I I lost the choice in in using every day. I use every day because I'm a drug addict. I have to. And that's true, I think. That's true to a large degree. But I I think the four of us know, and anybody who probably gets sober long term will learn is we don't hang our hats on that excuse. We don't use it as an excuse, we don't anything with it. We we learn we gain the knowledge of our condition, and then we take accountability for our actions, right? Um, so where is the line between accountability and the shame of what we've done?

SPEAKER_00

So I can I can only sit in the shame. The shame is only appropriate as long as I do what I need to do in the inventory process and the amends process to get rid of that shame. Because once I do those thoroughly and honestly, that shame will start to go away, if not go away entirely. I might have fleeting moments of it when I think of something into the past, but the shame is only appropriate um once if and once I go through the spiritual exercises that we talk about.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Greg.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I think the whole crux of the paragraph that you read off to start this whole thing, um, and I and I think the the reason why a lot of people feel that way, um, whether they're family members of of drug addicts or or you know, whoever, somebody who's been scorned by a drug addict, or maybe maybe just the way that society views us as a whole, could I not say it's right or wrong, you know, because each one of those situations is individual, much like the the the best and worst things about recovery is that it's just people, right? It's people, it's individuals, and you're gonna get a mix. But I think the big thing here, and the for me, the overarching message of all of that that you read is man, if we all just got out there and did what the literature told us and made the fearless amends like we're supposed to make and m set right the stuff that we're supposed to set right and and make up for it when we are wrong and try to help other people as much as we can in our daily lives, then what what a world of difference that that would do in the way that people view us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, man. I mean, I I think you know, just in a general course, uh when it comes to our actions, we're all accountable for our actions. You know what I mean? No, no matter when they are, where they are, who they are, or anything like that, we're all accountable for our actions. You know, the shame part comes to me as to from being a drug addict and the family members that you were just talking about, like and all that stuff, you know, and that's like the great great thing about recovery and the work that we do is that you get armed with the facts about yourself and you start to understand this, and that's how the shame lifts. Like for me, you know what I mean? When I stand and I talk to somebody and stuff like that, you know, you can tell when someone's talking to you with the shame and guilt. Or you just you stand there and you're actually confident in yourself to like, hey, I had to go through this and I did it, and I'm armed with all these facts about myself. I'm just talking to this person, hey, I did this, I messed up, or whatever. And that's not even on a daily concourse, man. It's not like, you know what I mean, like where it's just the amends process, like on a daily thing, you know what I mean? To to be able to look someone in the eye and say, I effed up, you know what I mean, and apologize and what can I do to make it right. Is that you know, I mean, that's what the work does, you know, that's everything that the shame, the shame lift, you know. I can't I can't imagine, I don't know, you guys like could you ever imagine being like 10 years sober or something like that with the shame of all that like still on you? I wouldn't be sober. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know if I'd be alive. Yeah, let's be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, lifting the weight is everything, you know what I mean? That's the why why we got high and we drank and stuff is because of that weight, you know, 100%. That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think the last thing I'm I'm doing if I go make an amends is saying, Well, yeah, I was just you know, I was addicted, and that's why I stole the money from you and whatever. And it's like, you know, that it whether that I mean that's true, but it's like I don't have to all I gotta know in that moment is that I hurt somebody and I'm gonna do what I can to make it right, no matter what the circumstances were on my end. So to wrap all that up, I think that um obviously Facebook doesn't always know what they're talking about, and that unless we have walked the shoes of people, uh then we probably don't know um how they felt, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And uh with that I yield my time, Chairman. Well done. Well done, guys. Corey, well done. Great questions. Thank you guys. Shout out to our listeners. Please like, follow, and share on all socials at TrudgeReport Pod. Email us, trudgereportpod at yahoo.com, send in your mailbag request for topics, questions, and comments to any of these handles. Remember, we are all here if anyone wants to talk about recovery, our experiences, or if you are struggling with some form of addiction. Thank you again to Janine and Stella Mix Podcast Management. Good night. God bless, and may you trudge the road of happy destiny. Shout out to America. See you next week.