Don’t Water Down the Soap: Hospitality with Intention, One Mocktail at a Time

In this episode of Smart Start Radio, hosts Sara Robertson and Eming Piansay sit down with two trailblazers transforming the beverage experience at events: Carl Radke, entrepreneur and co-founder of Loverboy and Soft Bar & Café, and David Stevens, co-founder of Olympian Meeting and six-time Fittest #EventProf.

Together, they explore the growing demand for non-alcoholic options, the art of crafting mocktails that feel as celebratory as cocktails, and how planners can deliver hospitality with intention, from the first welcome drink to the final farewell.

Carl opens up about his personal journey to sobriety and how it inspired him to create spaces that feel inclusive, elevated, and fun, without alcohol. David shares his philosophy on designing events, prioritizing wellness, connection, and high performance.

The message is clear: Don’t water down the soap. From thoughtfully crafted beverages to premium small details, every touchpoint is an opportunity to show attendees they belong.

Further Resources:

Watch on demand: Elite Performance Tips for Managing Attendee Energy.

Read More: The All Star Event Schedule to Optimize Attendee Energy

Read More: Reimagining The Reception: Trends in Alcohol Consumption

Transcript

Editor’s Note: This episode of Smart Start Radio was transcribed by Otter.ai and edited lightly.

[Music]

Sara Robertson Welcome, welcome to Smart Start Radio, everybody. Happy July. I am host one of two, Sara Robertson.

Eming Piansay Shoom! And I am host two of two, Eming Piansay. 

SR We are so excited for this episode today, because we are talking to two experts in a growing space, and that space is non-alcoholic beverages, and having those options at events. We dig into what non-alcoholic beverages look like, the industry that's growing now, why it's important, meeting attendees where they're at and providing options to everyone that enables everyone to feel a sense of hospitality when they're at your event.

EP Let's go!

[radio tuning sound]

SR Hello, hello, and welcome back to Smart Start Radio, everybody. Today we have another outstanding interview with two very outstanding and successful people. So we are being joined by David Stevens, who has worked with Smart Meetings a lot, and we're glad to have you back, David. David Stevens is the co-founder of Olympian Meetings. He is a 20-year veteran planner and six-times fittest male hashtag event prof. Is it hashtag eventprof, or do you just say eventprof?

David T. Stevens I usually just say event Prof. 

SR Okay, that works!

DS Whatever.

SR So he's also WITT certified. He's earned a Delos Wellness for Meetings and Events certificate. He is a Smart Speaker and a Smart Meeting Professional of the Year, and as of just recently, a Smart Ally winner, which celebrates male meeting professionals and professionals in the industry who celebrate our Smart Woman award winners. So shout out to David for winning yet another Smart Meetings award. You are awesome. Thank you. 

DS Thank you.

SR And we are also joined today by Carl Radke. He is an entrepreneur, film producer and investor. You may know him from summer house, and he is absolutely an entrepreneur in this space of non-alcoholic options and drinks. So he is the co-founder of Loverboy, which is a fantastic drink company. And he also just recently celebrated a very exciting launch of Soft Bar and Cafe. Soft Bar and Cafe. And we are going to talk more about that as the episode goes on. But to get started, I would love to hear a little bit from each of you about your careers and how you found yourself in the spaces that you are now.

Carl Radke You know, I think you kind of said it. I'm kind of a Swiss Army knife of a lot of different things. I've been an entrepreneur, salesperson, reality TV personality, invested in various businesses. You know, on a personal level, I got sober in January of 2021, you know, I've helped grow a non-alcoholic product line that we have called Loverboy. 

DS Where did, I'm curious where Soft Bar came from. 

CR Well, it was a combination of things, you know, soft drinks. There was some terminology that I really enjoyed, soft cocktails, soft drinks. And it was, it's terms that are commonly used, but no one really ever owned it. In Europe, it's very common to call non-alcoholic drinks soft, soft cocktails, or softs, S, O, F, T, S, and I was inspired by that I looked at here in the US, and no one had ever owned it or done anything with it. So I decided to kind of redefine what I believe is a non-alcoholic experience. You know, in person, I mean, there's tons of non-alcoholic drinks, but in my belief, there isn't anywhere to like that comes to life fully. Yes, there are non-alcoholic drinks at bars, but those bars still serve alcohol. I wanted a place that there's no influence of alcohol. It's still fun, it's still good, it's still all that they want, but.

SR Cool. I'm really excited to talk about that and hear about that, because I actually saw Carl speak at IMEX, at a Loverboy sponsored event, and everyone in the crowd had the option to have some Loverboy, some of those wonderful drinks. And we got to listen to David actually moderate this panel that Carl was sitting on. Carl had said really lovely and meaningful thoughts and things to share about inclusivity when it comes to having non-alcoholic options at events and why it matters. And I approached him immediately after, and I was like, “Hi, I want to, I want to do some reporting on this, so here's my card!” and now he's on the podcast! So thank you, Carl!

CR Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 

SR Yeah, and David, so tell us a little bit about what you're doing now. How are you?

DS I'm, I say, “a 20 year recovering corporate planner,” and for the planners, they understand what that means. I've worked in every aspect of live events, be it sports, be it entertainment, concerts, music festivals, nonprofit association, agency, et cetera. In one of my stints I worked for a small gym chain called 24-Hour Fitness that some people have heard of.

EP Oh, that's very small. 

DS We just did our events differently. And I was really excited, because when I joined them, I had gone through my own little journey. I'd lost 50 pounds in six months, got down to 8% body fat, and I was very proud of myself, and I ended up becoming a spin instructor, and then I got to work for the mothership, running all their internal events. And I just learned how they did events, and the way they did their meetings was the same way they lived their brand. And then fast forward a few years. I had left and spent some more time at other corporate and nobody else did meetings like they did. And a friend of mine and I were talking and saying, why don't, why do, why are conferences so brutal? Like, why do they leave us in this wrecked post state? We were exhausted, potentially hungover, five pounds heavier. Our inbox is a wreck, like we're just dreading. It's like we need the vacation from the vacation. Why can't they be better? And so going into the end of 2019 we came up with a concept, but obviously the launch got shelved a little bit, but it was good because it gave us the time to do the research. And when we came back and we were meeting in person, we, society had a renewed focus on taking care of themselves and taking care of each other, and we created a pilot case for doing a sales kickoff where we put taking care of people at the front, the forefront of our event design, and the KPIs were all there. The returns were phenomenal. The survey results made it very obvious that there's an opportunity. And within a couple of years, I exited corporate America, and we call ourselves wellness architects, because while we are practitioners of our own modalities that speak to us, our thing is helping people design events where wellness can be successful, and, as opposed to checking the box. So yeah, what has continued to happen from there is really just for lack of a better term, preaching the good word and promoting that people who are well rested, well connected, well fed, learn better and you get a higher return out of your event. So yeah, that's what, that's what Olympian Meeting stands for. And I know I, “Six-time Fittest Event Prof.” 

[laugher]

SR Do you ever get tired of hearing that? 

DS Well, I like to remind people, though, like, our company name is Olympian Meeting, but our nickname is “Om.” 

EP Hmm.

SR Aww. Yeah.

DS And in-between, that is where everyone lives.

EP Hmm.

SR Yes.

DS Yes, there's very few Olympians. There's only one truly enlightened, and it's the Dalai Lama. There's only ever been one, right, that he comes back. So, everyone else lives in-between. And so, we understand that wellness means different things to different people, and our big thing is ensuring that organizers meet attendees where they are, instead of telling participants what the organizer thinks wellness is.

SR Right.

EP Right.

SR Lovely. So, in the spirit of meeting people where they are, Carl, would you talk a little bit about Loverboy as a concept, and you know the intentions behind founding it, and how you've seen it develop since?

CR I mean, when we launched Loverboy, I mean, it's an alcohol brand, first we launched it in 2018 you know, I think we saw an opportunity to create something that was, you know, healthier for you, the term “better-for-you” is a term that's used a lot in the alcohol industry, where lower calorie or lower sugar, still has alcohol. But you know, brands like Michelob Ultra were probably like the first 20 years ago to, like, put the calories on the can, put zero carbs on the can. I dare anybody to pull up a wine bottle from their cabinet and tell me how many calories are in it. It doesn't have it on there, because it's not something that most alcohol companies want you to know, but transparency in any other product at a grocery store is everything. How many grams of sugar, calories? We all care about that. But in alcohol, it was like the wild wild west. So we saw the chance to really like, put it on the label, better quality ingredients, a fun, colorful product, higher, you know, better tasting and all that. So that was what Loverboy was born, was creating a product I think, that appealed to women. Lot of alcohol brands don't necessarily market women. They market to men, but the data actually shows that women are the ones predominantly making purchases at stores that are selling alcohol. So it's kind of an interesting thing. So yeah, we try to create a brand that resonated with today's consumer, not maybe the older, typical beer drinker, you know.

SR Right, right, yeah. And I remember seeing the cans of Loverboy at this event at IMEX, and there it is really beautiful packaging, like, it's really beautifully packaged.

CR Yeah, I mean, we wanted something that stood off the shelf... You know, there's a lot of things in bore, as we like to say, boring white cans. I'm not gonna say brand names, you know, probably who I'm talking about. But, you know, we thought drinking or socializing should be fun, and what you have in your hand is an extension of you and, our brand, we wanted something colorful and bright and loud and fun. So.

SR Absolutely. What about launching the non-alcoholic version of Loverboy now? 

CR 2018, I'm drinking, I'm partying, I'm selling Loverboy, we're doing our thing. 2019, I'm drinking, I'm partying, selling Loverboy, doing our thing. 2020 happens, March of 2020, we all know, the world shut down. I realized I had a problem with alcohol and I needed to get help. And regardless of involvement with the business, my alcohol and drug use was becoming a major problem, so I had to get, so I got sober. And there's a couple other things that led to that, but yeah, we, we decided, because of not only me being involved in this, but also consumers, over the years had asked about non-alcoholic options, whether it was women that are pregnant, people that have dietary issues, religious reasons. It's not all about sobriety. It's just people that can't drink. So we wanted to create something that was, again, low sugar, low calorie, and tastes great. A lot of non-alc, sure, is awesome, but it's still loaded with sugar and still high in calories, which just because I'm not drinking doesn't mean I'll replace it with more sugar or calories. So, we, yeah, we launched that about two years ago. You know, again, our, 90% of our business is alcohol sales, but I believe it's important to have an option for, for everybody, for those that drink, for those that are sober, for those that can't drink, whatever it might be. It's nice to have something, because a lot of again, in my personal experience, when I'm, you know, since I've gotten sober, having something in your hand in a social environment that looks like alcohol, it helps just it sends like, I'm at the party. I'm just like everybody else. And it also takes away that awkward moment when someone sees you just holding a bottle of water party. They're like, what's wrong with you?

[laughter]

DS Can I ask you a question? 

SR Yeah, go for it. 

DS Carl, what was that conversation like? When were you guys discussing, in general, about creating a non-alcoholic line? Did you think of this on your own? I'm just kind of curious what how that came together, and if they were like, “There's no way we we’re going to do that” or like, was it an easy conversation?

CR It was definitely like, we had to do the, run the numbers and do research. And one of the first things we, “we” meaning Kyle and some of the Loverboy team who buys non-alcoholic drinks, you know, what is the customer makeup of that? And actually, the data says about 93% of non-alcoholic drinks are sold to people that still drink alcohol. So that was a great stat, actually, for us as an alcohol company, you know, we have 96% of a pie to now go towards now. Yes, there are sober people that don't drink alcohol, and I want to support them and all that, but we wanted to build something that could resonate with everybody, because people buying the non-alcohol are the ones actually still drinking something. I think because of my platform, I've been talking openly about my story for many years, it seemed like a really nice extension to the brand. We had to look into how the formula and the recipe, because we're all about tasting good and high quality, so we couldn't, like, take the alcohol out. Now we'd got it, like, there was some production and kind of formulation we had to do, but, you know, it's, it's gone well. Like, I think it's funny is, we've been celebrated a lot for the brand and having non-alc options, but, like, our sales of it are not, like gangbusters. We're building it and trying to get it in more doors, but it's just a good option to have for people that are looking to take a break or whatever their reason might be.

EP Right.

SR Yeah, totally. And it is a great thing for all you lovely listeners out there to have at for next event as well, you know, if for the sake of getting it out there. But so one of the things that I wanted to talk about is that we are seeing this rising trend of non drinkers like far and wide, not just in the events world, but like, statistics show that less people are drinking now overall. And of course, that applies to events too, especially Gen Z. And as Gen Z has, like reached drinking age, or I don't know if all Gen Z is reached drinking age yet, but maybe. But we have, we have less people drinking these days. So whether people like, there are a million reasons why people don't drink, as Carl said, you know, they're sober. They can't for reasons you know, like, maybe they're pregnant. Sometimes people just choose not to, and that's fine. So when it comes to just like the increase in non-drinkers or people who choose to drink less often, overall, as a society, what are you guys's thoughts on, like, why that's been happening? How have you seen it show up in your lives and Carl, like, in your company? Yeah, David, at the events that you've been to?

DS I know, for me—by the way, I guess the cutoff for Gen Z is 2012.

SR Oh, okay, so you have to be born…like so, someone born in 2011 is Gen Z? 

DS Yes. 

SR Oh, that's crazy. I’m Gen Z.

[laughter]

DS I chat GPT-ed it really quickly. 

SR Thank you. I appreciate that. Hey, I love accuracy and consistency in journalism. Thank you very much.

DS People see it differently now. I think there’s so, um, I worked with someone that, going into the pandemic, he's been he's been dry since like June of 2020. And he got six months in, or three months in of lockdown, if you will. And him and his wife just realized that, like, what we're doing isn't good for us, and saw the writing on the wall and just kind of washed their hands of it. He will still have NA beers and things of that nature, but he, he just, he was like, this is a slippery slope, and I feel myself losing my footing, and I do not want to go down this. And I think there's, there's plenty of people who have just grown up in in households and envi, and in environments where they see what the outcome of overindulging can be, and they just don't want to be a part of it. Or I know for me, I really like my sleep, like I love when you get a good night's sleep, it's like the best starts to the day ever, and like, I've never had that after drinking ever. So I, selfishly, don't drink usually. I might, here and there, because I like sleep so much, and I just know I'm sharper and my workout will won't suffer. And like, did the “Yes, and,” right? Like, there's no, I might have fun in the moment, but usually the next day, I'm kind of hating my life. Like, even we'll still go to, like, fancy dinners and do wine tastings. And, like, I don't even really do it anymore, because I'd rather just have the fancy dinner and feel great the next day, or feel a little guilty for indulging in decadent food,

SR Oh, but I love decadent food.

[laughter]

DS But then I know I will have the energy to go work my butt off in the gym and put those calories to use instead of like, just feeling like garbage on top of it.

SR Totally, totally. And if you're listening, you want to hear more about this topic, you can actually hear David speak in a recent webinar. It's called “Elite Performance Tips for Managing Attendee Energy.” There's also a white paper on it, and we will link that in the show notes.

EP One quick thing, so Sara and I go on a lot of trips and to a lot of events, and personally, when I'm at these events, the menus always have a very, they're not very friendly towards people who don't drink. Like, there's like, a little bit of this, and it doesn't look that good. 

SR Or even the, even the agendas, I would say, you know, like, sometimes we'll get an agenda, you know, like, I'll be looking at, like, my schedule, and there'll be, you know, a “welcome cocktail and then dinner,” 

EP Yeah.

SR Or, like, “tour and libations.” 

EP Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you can’t avoid it sometimes, 

SR Yeah.

EP It's just there.

SR Yeah, it's, like, literally built-in to the schedule.

EP There's no option.

SR Yeah.

EP So, in your opinion, like, how can events in that way kind of evolve from the standard of what is, like, expected? Like, oh, there's gonna be champagne, oh there's gonna be wine, oh there's gonna be whiskey, oh there's gonna be something, that's something with alcohol in it. Like, how can, where does the shift happen, and how can that actually, you know, evolve from where it's at right now?

DS I think one of the things is they can, they can be more thoughtful about what they're offering people. I mean, one of the things that that Carl brought up, because we had a discussion of, like, why are soft cocktails the same price, and and, or he even said, like, the non-alcoholic Loverboy is slightly more expensive than the alcoholic Loverboy. Is that still the case, Carl?

CR It's slightly less expensive. 

DS Oh, okay, good, okay. Well, that's, that's good, and I apologize if I misheard you. It's all good. But he's like, “Well, there's no alcohol, so you can taste the ingredients.”

SR I remember you saying that to me in an interview we did once.

DS And it really it struck me, it was not something I'd ever really contemplated. But when there's no alcohol in it, you taste everything, right? So you have to use fresher things and nicer things and whatnot, right? So the reason I bring that up is because when you're doing thoughtful, non-alcoholic alternatives, they should be made with really nice ingredients. They should, maybe you're bringing in fresh pressed juices to make your soft cocktails with. Maybe you're doing something that that that shows and the other thing is presentation. I was very fortunate. I just met the head of all Delta Sky Clubs at a Delta event, and we were talking about these, these canned mocktails that are from this company that offers them. I'll leave their name out because Loverboy is not in Delta Sky Lounges. 

CR It’s all good. But, no comment.

[laughter]

DS I was like, sometimes I get it, sometimes I put it in the can and just set it in front of me, and sometimes they pour it in a glass and put a lime wedge on it, and I'm like, it feels completely different. So I think one of the things that we need to be cognizant of is, there are people that don't drink for different reasons. Some people are in recovery. Some people just don't want to. But either way, it doesn't matter, and we should be promoting and ensuring that those people who aren't feel just as seen and cared for—we’re in the hospitality business—as the people who, who do drink.

SR Yeah, I think that this is a really good time to talk about Soft Bar and what Soft Bar is, as a concept. And, you know, like, how you're creating that. So, Carl, would you tell us a little bit about, not only, like, what Soft Bar is, but how you've built this idea up into launching it—just recently, like about a couple of weeks ago, right? 

CR I mean, no, not, not officially.

SR Okay, not officially launched yet. 

CR Well, we have as a mobile pop up since last October.

SR Okay.

CR So I had announced kind of

DS Available for events?

CR What's that? 

DS I said, available for events?

CR Depends on the event. 

SR Okay.

EP Okay, like, size wise?

CR Reason I say that is, you know, as a startup, we have hard costs.

SR Yes.

CR And a lot of folks assume that, you know, my mobile pop up just shows up complimentary, which we've done a few of those for brand awareness and like brand partners, but we've been a little more careful, because I didn't set out to create a mobile pop up. I set out to an actual place you can come and sit down. But, I mean, yeah, Soft Bar is really, it's a mindful consumption bar and cafe. So it's a place you can come in the morning, have a premium coffee. I don't actually drink coffee, and I don't drink alcohol, so I basically have nowhere to go. 

[laughter]

CR And, I mean, it's, it's true, like, if you don't drink coffee and you go to a coffee shop, it's hilarious, like, there's nothing else to drink other than water.

SR There’s tea, there’s tea! 

CR Most coffee shops don’t have really good tea, if it's a tea, it's like an English Breakfast. It's not,

SR Oh my gosh.

[laughter] 

CR Anything super, you know, exciting.

SR Right, right, right.

EP Okay.

CR But, they're like pulling out a dusty box of tea bags, and they're like, “Oh, we have whatever's in here.” But yeah, some places have some options, but they still aren't delivering what I was looking for, which is, right, there's a lot happening in the alternative coffee space with, whether matcha or cacao or mushroom coffee, not psychedelics.

SR No one of our, one of our employees over here at Smart Meetings, our production lead, has been drinking mushroom coffee for a little while, and he says he has never felt more energized or healthier. Very, very interesting. You know, because, like that, stuff is full of nutrients.

CR Well, it's delivering, it's giving you ingredients and functional benefits that I think are delivering more of what you're looking for in the morning. In the morning, I want to be focused, calm, but energetic. Coffee makes me anxious, jittery and like, like, skin crawling.

SR Yeah, yeah, totally. 

CR Not everybody reacts that way to it, I'm, that's just my personal experience. I love, I like the taste of coffee, don't get me wrong, right? But I just saw what was happening in coffee. And if you look at most coffee shops, they close at three o'clock. And I'm like, that's a beautiful space that people would sit down and hang out, but the problem is they aren't serving anything that probably makes sense for after three o'clock. Mushroom coffee actually would work after three because of what it delivers. It's not gonna keep you up late at night.

SR Right.

CR So, yeah, I mean, I can kind of Soft Bar really is just a, it's a four wall space, it's a destination, it's a mindful-consumption bar and cafe specialized in premium coffee, alternative coffee, but also soft cocktails. So what we deliver is drinks that make you feel something, whether it's energetic, uplifted, calm, we use ingredients you can find at like a Whole Foods supplement aisle. People take these ingredients every morning in their apartments, in their homes, but we're taking it a step further and putting it in your bespoke beverage, kind of in a craft-- way. Now outside of the drinks, it's the experience too. It's a more premium, elevated environment. You know, think Starbucks meets Soho House, you know, it's not, you know, I wanted something that was a little bit of a step up, a place that everybody would feel welcome there. Doesn't require you to go to AA to come here. It doesn't require you to say you're sober. You can literally take in an edible in the parking lot. I don't care. 

[laughter]

CR We just don’t serve alcohol at Soft Bar. 

SR Yeah.

CR We like we like to say, “Come as you are.” 

SR Love it. I like that saying.

CR So even if you've had all day with your best friends, come to Soft Bar. We're gonna give you a drink that's gonna calm you down, make you feel good. And then if you got to go drink again, just go outside to the bars down the street and do what you got to do.

SR Yeah, I love that experiential element. Like, I really like what you're saying about creating a space that has, you know, like, you want to hang out in a coffee shop after 3pm but they're all closed because people aren't drinking coffee at that point. But it's such a gorgeous space where you feel, you know, like I love to go to a coffee shop and get some work done, like there is nothing that motivates me like being in the literal, physical space at the coffee shop. It's like, the way it looks, the way it sounds, hearing conversations around me, I think it really rings true, I think it's gonna ring true for a lot of people listening, who are event planners. Their lives are about creating different versions of these spaces for people to connect or feel motivated or inspired or just recenter in whatever ways, the event has its own goals, right? But yeah, David, you look like you're about to say something.

DS Well, I'm having a moment of clarity and thinking about like, how this ties into the p.m. break. 

SR Oh, please share. 

DS Well, this is always, the p.m. break is the tricky one right? It's usually somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30 

SR Yeah. 

DS And traditionally, it's like, Red Bulls and candy bars.

[laughter]

DS And like, because everyone's trying to get people through the last couple hours of,

SR Oh yeah.

DS Of the general session and of the things so that then they can either get them to happy hour or get them to whatever. But they, they, they're trying to squeeze out that last couple hours of meetings. And God, the idea of, of doing functional beverages mid-afternoon is just like, they would blow people's, they can all like, get a drink, right, without you having to worry about them falling asleep in the sessions.

CR We’ve done, we tested this last fall. So, Kate, Kate Spade, the women's fashion brand, she—well, sadly, Kate Spade took her life, and they've used a lot of her story and turned, you know, the Kate Spade brand into women's mental health and advocacy, and they've raised it millions of dollars. It's amazing what they've done, but if you think about what David's saying, I mean, I'm glad you brought this up. You've got 400 executives, fashion people, women, powerful, amazing women, in a conference center for eight hours in New York City on Thursday morning, you're not going to serve black coffee and just random tea to a group of this, like the quality of the guests meeting that's going on, the conversations and the connection, and even the topics of conversation are powerful and emotional and very vulnerable, you need beverages like, well, Soft Bar and some of these other more premium, non-alc options, because it actually you're doing a disservice to the community that's coming together by offering that part of my language, bullshit drinks. So I think to David's point, we actually served these mushroom coffee drinks. We served other alternatives like cacao and Bucha, and it was a step up of their typical food and beverage program. And again, Simone Biles was the headline speaker. Raji Henson spoke. Everybody's holding functional, beautiful, well-constructed, premium, non-alc drinks, and it made the meeting that much more engaging.

SR Yeah.

CR People were like, I don't know, you expect when you, I've been to hundreds of conferences, you walk out. It's like, all right, typical water, the coffee, and it's a lot of it comes down from, unfortunately, the hospitality groups that own and control. You know, I've done conferences in Las Vegas like it goes through the union. Gotta have this exclusive, right? None of this is ever gonna change until the big brands change. Every menu at most of these events has actually been paid for.

EP Yep.

SR Yeah. 

CR So it's a Pepsi place or a Coca-Cola place.

SR Uh huh. 

CR So we don't have those brands. It's not going to be on that menu, no matter how much you love Loverboy or want,

SR Yes.

CR The brand.

EP Right.

CR I've literally been brought in by the president of conferences like, we want Loverboy here, it's a Coca-Cola venue. They have a contractual thing. So, it's like, even when you want it to happen, it doesn't happen, because that’s just the way that business is done.

DS I mean, there’s a clause for that.

CR And by business I mean…starts doing more premium non-alcohol options.

DS Right.

SR Mhm, mhm. Definitely. 

DS There, for the meeting planners, there is a clause for that, and I put it in all my RFPs so that it's not a surprise. Like when I'm shopping, I say, we reserve the right to supplement your menu if it doesn't meet our nutritional needs or dietary needs, whatever. 

EP And how does that work out, usually?

DS Sometimes it's great. Sometimes people just walk away from it. And you know what? 

EP Hmm, interesting.

DS If they walk away from it, all the better. Sometimes it leads to a discussion with the chef, because they're like, wait, it might be a chef that actually, you know that cares. And he's like, “What do you mean? Like, what are your nutritional needs? What do you need?” I sent it to, we're doing an event at a stadium, and I sent it over, and I'm like, “Okay. What's the deal with these quote ‘energy bar’ and ‘protein bars’? What do you actually have?” “Well, they're, they're, they're bars.” And I was like, “Yeah, but are they energy bars, or are they protein bars? Because those aren't interchangeable.”

[laughter]

DS And, I said, “I only want protein bars.” And they're like, “Okay, cool.” And I'm like, “So what kind of protein bars are they?” “Well, they're whatever we have” “Well, but that doesn't answer the” like, that's yeah, so it can initiate really meaningful conversations, but that's what this is all about, right? And a lot of times, you can identify a gap that either you can fill, or potentially, you can educate them on how to fill it with the appropriate supplier, like Loverboy.

CR We've, we've tried, we've gotten through on some events. It is a nice compliment, like David said, I think if, if we can supplement kind of what the, the venue is offering, yeah, another premium. I mean, I, in my belief, we should be, you know, an add-on to most of the you know, options or but even if you think at like, a wedding or big events with a lot of like, usually you offer salmon or a vegan dish to your guests. So how is that not taken a step further with beverage? You offer decaf coffee, right? Yeah? Like, it's just funny. They, they're already doing it. But then when it comes to alcohol, it's like, “Oh my god!” But again, I think it stems from majority of hospitality venues. Their businesses are profitable, or they make money off of the margin of alcohol. Why if, for $100, they sell it back to you for 300. They make money, the margin on food is paper thin, right? It's gonna be a thing that, until these hospitality, really, like, I mean, it's going to happen soon. There's going to be a lot of change. Yeah, it's not happening anytime soon.

SR Right, right. Yeah, it's, it's interesting that you say, you know, like, there is going to be a change, like, this is going to happen, although it may not happen soon. And we are, we are seeing it start.

CR The millennials and, the millennials, I'm, yeah, I'm a millennial. When the Gen Z starts getting more into the workforce,

SR Yeah.

CR And actually, the ones planning the events that we're talking about right now,

EP Right.

CR I believe there will be a more of a shift.

SR Yeah. 

CR I mean, I was, I was fired from a company I worked for at a national sales meeting because of my partying, like David said, you need a vacation from these conferences, 

EP Right.

CR Not that I'm blaming anybody other than myself for that, but you're supposed to get drunk at events.

SR Right. It seems like that's what's expected. That's been the status quo for so long. And you know, like you go to these events and you do see people getting drunk, and maybe you see some people, you know, having one drink, and there's a whole range, and you see some people who don't drink. But it has been the status quo and the expectation for as long as we have had corporate events that you throw a bunch of people together in a room and give them alcohol and then hands-off.

EP Yeah.

CR Well, I think some of it is, I mean, I've had a career in sales, and I've shaken many a hand or, for a business deal after many, many cocktails.

SR Right.

CR Yes, there is, I think some of it is like that muscle memory of like this, the way it's done, you know, 

SR Yeah.

CR Over cocktails, doing deals, networking, sure, it helps to have a little bit of but I'm telling you, if you have some of these functional drinks, for these really high quality drinks, yes, you don't need the alcohol.

SR Yeah.

EP Right. 

SR So, so we're kind of seeing the evolution of this world where that's not necessarily the status quo anymore, and some people are starting to break out of it. For example, Soft Bar.

CR Right.

SR And, in experiences where we have planners creating these, these events, these moments, receptions, whatever, where we have quality, non-alcoholic options, the kinds of environments where people, like, the expectation is not that they're just going to be thrown into a room with an open bar. What does that look like in both of your experiences?

DS I do want to bring up a figure, because this came out recently. Surprise, I have stats and figures.

SR Thank you! That's why we're, that's why you're here. Thank you. 

[laughter]

DS Bank of America did a study in the last 18 months, and Gen Z and Millennial spending has outspent on fitness and wellness over bars and alcohol by seven percent.

SR Hmm. Seven percent.

EP Does that have to do with the fact that alcohol has been like, labeled, like, the biggest cause of cancer among most people these days?

DS Well, the Surgeon General also said that no drinks are good for you. 

SR Yes, that came out a couple of months ago.

DS So, there's that, too.

SR Actually, actually, fun fact for listeners of this episode. As soon as that happened, I read the news that morning, and then, like, an hour later, I got an email from David that was like, “You might be interested in this!”

[laughter]

EP Kismet.

DS That's what events are. Events are, consist of people coming together, right? And what used to be the normal was having free alcohol as a sign of hospitality and. Caring for people because it was expensive, and the more expensive the alcohol, the more they cared about you. That's why, you know, getting a glass of champagne like, I'm, I'm a Gen-xennial. I'm like, right in between Gen X and Millennial. And like, when you get handed a glass of champagne on a plane, like, it's hard to say no to because you're like, “Oh, this, this is like,” 

SR “Look at me, I'm fancy.” Yeah.

DS Right. And it's just, we're just kind of hardwired for it. But what, part of what the conversation I was having was in the sky lounges, you have to pay $4 for that non-alcoholic cocktail, whereas you get alcohol for free. 

SR That doesn't seem right.

DS Well, and I said to her, I was like, “You're like, you give me free alcohol to thank me for my loyalty, but I can't have non-alcohol for free.” And she goes, “You're totally right.” 

[laughter]

SR Yeah. 

DS And it was just like, this kind of aha moment of like, oh, oh yeah. Like, so I think it's just, if you think we're, it's so wild, we're less than 100 years away from when prohibition ended. I think it was like 1933 is when it ended, and yet, so there's generations of, still kind of working through what has been passed down, of like, this thing is expensive. It takes a lot of time and work to make it, so getting it for free or drinking it is considered a privilege. And I think what we're starting to realize is that now getting really well-done non-alcoholic beverages takes just as much work, because nature has to comply. You have to grow fruits and vegetables and whatnot, right, like and given the weather it is what it is, alcohol is a more controlled environment than creating these, these really intentional, soft cocktails. So I think it's just a matter of our awareness and our priorities shifting and and, and the perceived value adjusting to something different.

SR I think it's interesting that you say that, you know, giving alcohol has been a sign of hospitality for so long, and that's true, but I mean, like, just think that creating a beautiful drink that, you know, has all of these wonderful flavors, like, it's literally a gastronomic experience. How is that not hospitality? You know, it shows such a level of care for that attendee, for these people in this room, 400 executives or five executives or 5000 employees. You know, that kind of care is unmatched, and that creates an experience that people are gonna really remember and they're gonna feel cared about.

DS Carl had a good quote that was, like, so succinct, and nailed it.

CR So my head bartender, when I went into 11 Madison Park—this was actually a little over a year ago now, I'd been talking about this concept and trying to, like, really, I didn't want to just serve mock, you know, mocktails. I wanted something that was more elevated in premium. And I went to meet him, and he was really excited about what we do, and I sat at the bar, and he like, this literally happened. He put a drink over the bar. It was a tall glass. It had a salt rim, but it wasn't salt. Had a really beautiful garnish, the color of the drink. I sip it, and he's like, “Carl, just because you're not drinking alcohol doesn't mean you deserve a lesser experience.” And I was like, “I could hug you right now, like I could just jump across the bar and hug you.” And he nailed it. I mean, the quality of the craft of the liquid, the flavor profile, the way the drink was presented. I was in a beautiful restaurant, obviously, but this is what it should be, in my opinion. Now it was $17dollars, but I had an amazing experience, and I'm willing to spend $17 on someone that worked hard and grinding and mashing the ingredients, taking the time to prep that all goes into what you know you're paying for just because it doesn't have alcohol free. 

SR Yeah.

CR So, yeah, I wanted to, like, really take what he said and, you know, redefine what most of us think of as a mocktail experience. And I'm not here to, I think mocktails are great, but I don't actually order mocktails at most places. That's not the experience I'm looking for either. I don't want a thing that is kind of lazy and thrown together, I'll just drink N/A beer, or I'll stick with good old water and move along. 

CS I always order them to see how they're gonna do. But to your point, Carl, that is hospitality. 

SR Yeah. 

DS Hospitality doesn't have to equal alcohol. It's the level of experience you have. Is what equates to hospitality.

CR Yeah, and that's what kind of got me thinking more about, okay, great, like these amazing ingredients and this amazing experience, but what if you, like, take it even further and add these functional ingredients and things that are going to be good for you and make you feel good? Because I think you can take that, sure I'll sit here and admit I won't. I don't want to buy a $17 sugary mocktail. I don't, but I'll buy a $17 mocktail that's going to make me feel happy or energetic at a cool place. I'm going to be connected to whoever I'm talking to, or fitting in, like that is how I thought of to bridge the gap with those people that say, “Well, I'm not going to spend 17 on a mocktail. It's just juice.” “No, it's juice that's going to make you feel amazing and give you something that you’re not going to get otherwise.”

SR Yeah, because it's not just juice, like, as you said, it's something that somebody put real effort and craftsmanship into. And doesn't that make a person feel seen? I think if we, if we think about, you know, creating a memorable event experience. Think about like, the five senses, right? You have like, the sight with the lights and the sound with the music, and you have all these people around you. When it comes to taste, we're usually offering an open bar. But what about, like, elevating that taste through these really artfully-created drinks, something that people remember looking at and seeing this beautiful thing, gorgeous presentation. That's a memory. Tasting something that they've never tasted before, and it's delicious, and they know that it's good for them, and it's fueling them. That is something that is going to make your attendees remember, “I had a really great time at this event, and I felt cared for.

CR And you actually remember it.

SR Yeah, yeah.

[laughter]

CR Well, like the drinks had intention, and I think that's missing.

SR Intention.

CR You’ve got a bunch of people coming there with intent, and then the drinks are not intentional. 

SR Yeah.

CR Some of it is kind of lacking, I think, for anybody who's, you know, I, and I don't live in this world like David or you guys, you know, playing with all the events stuff. But I really do hope that people look at it kind of like they see the vegan or seafood option with food like you would never throw a conference or party and only serve steak, like I wonder when that change happened, though, like, when was the last of the steak-only conferences?

SR Right. I mean, okay, I will say for me. Don't judge me. I really don't like steak. I just don't like it. I just, I've never been a fan. So, yeah, if I were to go look at a menu and see just steak, I would be like, well, crap, you know. So yeah, I mean, I think it's also like, what's really wonderful is having, having that optionality, having that choice, because it is your choice. You know, maybe somebody is a regular drinker, but they don't want to have more than one drink at an event, but they want to have another great-tasting-something-to-sip. You know, it's freedom, it's choice, at the end of the day.

DS It's about creating a sense where people feel like they belong, right? And that's why it's important to meet people where they're at. I think one of the big shifts also that I've started to see, I know it's something that we try to be really intentional about at our clients’ events, is ensuring that if there are thoughtful or intentional choices made to create non-alcoholic beverage options, we we really work to promote them. Because a big takeaway I took from the IMEX event was that people who don't drink are, traditionally, used to feeling excluded. They just don't think there's gonna be something for them. So if you're offering Loverboy or some other canned beverage that is non-alcoholic, it should be on the rail with everything else. If you're if you handcrafted something special, it should be sitting in a glass on the rail with maybe a piece of signage next to it that calls out that it's available. So those people who are traditionally disengaged or just expect to not have something are surprised and delighted that there's, 

SR Yeah.

DS That there's something for them.

EP Right. 

CR Yeah, I was gonna just add to that, I think another stat to add to David and I's numbers, I believe it's around 30% maybe a little bit higher now, of American, of our American population, does not drink any alcohol at all. I was just gonna say, to David's part, I think there are a lot of our population that, they're so used to being this way, they just live their lives. I have family friends that never had a sip of alcohol. They still go sit in the bar. They'll hang out. They're not there long. We'll go to restaurants, but it's just how it is. There's just nothing. But I believe we can really change that, because ultimately the consumers are telling us a story here, and the Gen Z consumption is shifting. Yes, they're spending money, but in different places. Yes, you know, I think, you know, the millennials, and even the Gen, Gen X, they're realizing health and wellness better thinking. I think we're the anxiety generation for a reason. We have all of these things on our hands, and then you have alcohol, which is anxiety and depressing thing. Why are we surprised that we're having all of this feeling? So I think the Gen Zers are smart because they're all over social media. They want nothing to do with alcohol. Because I think when you look at people who are drunk on social media, I mean, I have a niece who's 16, and she said, if you were seen on social media holding a beer or drinking you literally are like, a total, I don't know, loser is not the right word. It's like, that's not it like, that's not cool. No one wants to do that. And I think that's also a big, big thing happening with just our younger social media is everywhere. They all want to look good and not look silly or stupid or do dumb things.

SR Yeah, yeah.

EP Right.

SR So this past January, I had a story on the rising interest in non-alcoholic drinks, which I actually interviewed David for. That's why he sent me that article about the US Surgeon General, saying that no level of alcohol consumption is necessarily healthy or okay, and that it's a leading cause of—I’m looking at the article now—20,000 cancer deaths annually in the US. Carl, I looked this up because of what you said around, like 40, 30% of people. And yeah, like the numbers are rising. There was a, I'm looking, oh, a Gallup poll that happens, like every couple of years, assessing how people view alcohol consumption. And in the most recent poll, in the 2024 edition, 45% of people agree that drinking one or two alcoholic beverages per day is bad for one's health, which is a 6% increase from the year prior, a 17% increase from 2018 so yeah, trends are changing, for sure.

CR Well, it reminds me of and I live in New York City, and probably a little different for some of you, if you haven't been living here, but when I first moved here, almost 11 or 12 years ago, now, I was drinking back then, but cigarette smoke everywhere. People were cigarette smoking outside, inside, it was a social thing. Like, if you wanted to meet a cute girl at a bar in New York 10 years ago, you'd go outside and smoke a cigarette like, meet people outside.

EP Right.

CR The thought of seeing anyone smoking a cigarette right now. I mean, yes, people vape, but it's like, cooler that way,

[laughter]

CR And it, like, less nasty, but like cigarettes, come on, guys, like tobacco was in like, everybody smoked inside their homes for many years, and we've evolved past that. When cars were invented, they didn't have seat belts originally. Like we learn over time and we learn. And I think we're in this kind of really interesting moment with alcohol and consumption. People are really realizing the Surgeon General is telling us it's linked to, like, eight or nine different types of cancer, which is the same thing that it said about tobacco.

SR Yes.

EP Yeah.

SR I think the thing that planners can really understand a lot of like, how events are gonna evolve from is like, look at what their incoming generation of attendees are spending money on. So as David was saying, this incoming generation of attendees, Gen Z, the last of whom were born in 2012, who are entering the workforce now, who are going to make up the workforce in the next decade, um, are spending more of their money on health and wellness. And we all know that people love health and wellness, and there's so many discussions on it, maybe we should do an episode on that one, Eming, um, but, yeah, I mean, like, look at what this incoming generation is spending money on. That's how events are going to go too. Because, once again, like, we're just trying to kind of feed the consumer, right?

DS Well, they're also, they're just not going to spend their money on your event. That's what it comes down to. 

CR Well, I think they're spending money on experiences and, 

SR Yeah.

EP Right.

CR You know, connection and having fun and all that. But to David's point, yeah, they're gonna go to the places that serve the products and the liquid and food that all is cohesive and right makes them feel seen and welcome. Yeah, yeah. I think you're I read it every day, and I'm not trying to, you know, make it all out horrible case against alcohol, but I see it in the industry reports. I mean, across the globe, consumption is down, 

SR Yeah.

CR And it's gonna trigger into the hospitality world, which we are seeing, and it's sad, because it's a massive industry with a lot of people and lives and folks that really rely on the alcohol industry. So it's, it's complex. And I also want to highlight, like, this shift has a lot, has a big impact on people that own wineries, that own tequila brands, and it's kind of scary, because, you know, I want people to be able to have their lives and things, yeah, the consumption is shifting so dramatically. There's going to be, I think, after this year, a major, major shift on a lot of companies how they're looking at their portfolio.

DS That's why the brands are rethinking what they're doing. I was at a, I think it was a Teneo event last year, and I met someone from Josh and she does events for the winery, like for their sales reps, for all that stuff their distributors, and they they're talking about. So, they just came out with a non-alcoholic Prosecco that is apparently delicious, because non-alcoholic wine usually is trash.

[laughter]

CR I would agree with that, but it's getting better, a little bit.

DS Yeah, I met with someone else who they're working on basically the equivalent of a Brita filter, but for alcohol, where you can literally take a, you know, 2001 Alexander Valley Silver Oak, and pour it through this thing and it de-alkalizes it on the other end.

SR That doesn't even sound real. Is that, like, truly effective? 

EP Sounds like Star Trek.

[laughter]

CR When I was at Syracuse University many years ago, there was a thing among the students and friends, if you bought even a crappy bottle of vodka and poured it through an actual real Brita, it would cleanse and filter the charcoal, and it would actually produce, like, a higher quality vodka that you paid, you know

SR Huh!

EP Wow.

CR Yeah, I remember that.

[laughter]

EP Wild.

CR No, but I actually believe David, that's a brilliant concept. And

SR Wow.

CR Probably very, like, yeah, invest in that if you can.

DS So they, apparently the scientist has figured out how to do it a different way, like on a different chemical. So now he's trying to figure out how to do it for ethanol, and it's like at the molecular level, 

SR Oh my god.

[laughter]

DS So that it's really just pulling out the alcohol content without even theoretically changing the taste, which I don't know how true that would be, but the traditional process is very expensive, but imagine, like, if that were to go out on store on store shelves, like, you could go to a conference, and you could just have them pour through your little filter, and then you could have wine that didn't have any alcohol in it. Like, so it's happening. It's just not there yet, but it's it. The murmurings are there, and the writing is on the wall that people are starting to see the opportunity. I forgot about the vodka through the Brita filter. So funny.

CR Yeah, sorry, sorry for bringing it back to college.

EP So realistically, how do I put this, like, is it like you would do it, like, once and then it’s done?

DS Is it disposable, or is it multi-use? 

EP How long could you use it before it's like, it's not usable anymore, like?

DS I'm guessing it's probably like, a Brita filter, right? Like, you can use it a few times

EP Okay like for a few months?

DS And then I have no idea. Like,

CR Yeah, if you don't replace that, then it just gives you the alcohol back.

SR Yeah, yeah. Replace your Brita filters, everybody. Friendly reminder.

[laughter]

EP Well, Sara, we often say we learned so much on the show, and again, we're just proving again we're learning so much from this show. So, thank you guys both, for that, that was really interesting.

SR Really interesting conversation, and really meaningful too. So, thank you so much.

CR Of course. I mean, I could, I'm not like an expert in any of this. I just kind of have,

SR Oh, that’s okay. 

EP That’s okay. We aren’t either. We’re just here to learn. 

SR Right. Well, I’ll just reiterate again. You know, to all of our listeners, Soft Bar is a really cool concept that I think a lot of event planners can take a lot from in creating these experiential spaces that mean so much to people. So, shout out to Carl for Soft Bar. That's amazing. 

CR Thank you.

SR Really just wanted to highlight that. So, thank you for being here today.

CR No, I appreciate you guys. 

DS Do you have an estimate of when you're aiming to have it open? 

CR Yes, I was, we're planning to be open August 1. 

EP Hm!

SR Nice. 

CR So I think when people see like what we've been putting together—so I took over a former, you know, industrial, kind of garage, really cool space in Brooklyn. I live in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. It's a really cool area with a lot of, you know, top rated restaurants. There's a lot of wellness and fitness that's close by. There's nothing quite like this, but it's never been a bar and cafe before. So it does take a few months to build out, but my belief is, when you come, it's Soft Bar. It's never been anything else. Yes, this experience and the level of the drinks and just kind of the space, we are going to have events there, because, to your point, at least, David’s got an RFP out to three or four different venues for a particular conference or whatever it is. Yeah, ours isn't gonna be like the Javits Center, but you could have a really connected group of men or women, 75 to 100 people, at Soft Bar because, again, all the beverages we're serving are perfect. But if you call up, like, Brooklyn winery, or some of these really beautiful event spaces, and you tell them, I'm guessing this, by the way, I'm sure someone will do it. But hey, Brooklyn winery, I've got 200 people. We want no alcohol. They're gonna be like, okay, like, what?

[laughter]

CR You have, you, they’re gonna force you to buy alcohol to cover their costs, right? So I think there's a huge gap in this event world and what people are wanting to do in hosts versus what like, the reality is, people aren't really always looking to have alcohol, but most venues aren't even capable of giving you something alternative, unless you've got the little claws like David does.

SR Yeah. And I think, you know, it's really up to planners to make sure that, like, once again, those options are available to people. That's what really makes people seen, yeah, feel seen and heard and feel like they're a valued member of whatever community you're holding an event for.

CR Exactly. So everybody on this call who's listening, and then all of you here are more than welcome to come to Soft Bar when we do open.

SR Yay!

EP We'll definitely be heading over, eventually. 

SR Yeah, absolutely.

EP Probably.

CR Awesome. 

EP Cool. 

SR Yeah. So, we always sort of end off by asking you our trademark question of, “What's in your toolbox?” So essentially, what's that one thing that's been, you know, that you want to leave our listeners with, whether it's an insight, a tip, a piece of advice, something that has helped you along your journey as it relates to this topic of quality non-alcoholic options, inclusion and creating amazing experiences for people?

CR I'll let David go first.

DS I'm going to kind of cop out and go back to my, my RFP clause. You know, “Client reserves the right to supplement existing menu with packaged goods if existing menu doesn't meet nutritional requirements.”

SR Yeah, I don't think that that's a cop out. I think that that's really relevant, and I'm glad you said it again. 

DS Well, I think it's important, some of the language in there, because, you know, if you're like, showing up with stuff you made at home, then it's like, they're like, “Well, what the, what is happening, right?” Whereas, if it shows up, it's packaged, it's closed, you're, you're bringing, you go to the store, you buy a few dozen cases of Loverboy, bring it in as your non-alcoholic offering. You bring in protein bars, or whatever, like, then it's, it's not that you're trying to, like, line your own pockets or trying to do something unsanitary or not complying with food laws you're, you're really just trying to meet your participants needs. 

SR Yeah.

DS And that either leads to a yes, a no or a discussion. And a no is great. A yes is better. A discussion is always welcome.

SR Lovely. Beautifully said.

EP Nice. 

SR Yeah, meet people where they're at. It's like a trademark David T. Stevens quote.

[laughter]

CR I like that. Is that is my, is my little final toolbox thing relating to this topic, or just anything in general?

SR Literally whatever you want.

EP Anything that you feel would help you as, you know, as a person and as our audience, as they kind of, you know, take in what you offered us.

CR Yeah, we have a saying at Soft Bar, and I, this is not my own, but this is my business partner who said this, and it's something we really like, which is, “Don't dilute the soap.” And we've all been to a restaurant or a bar, and you've washed your hands in the bathroom and the soap is like, super watery, yeah, and that, all that says to me is that what else is super watery and not thoughtful or mindful? Whether you're an owner of a venue or you're planning events, or you're the founder of a non-alcoholic product, every little detail, I think, does matter, even the minute, little things like washing your hands. I think, just remember, that sends a signal to your consumer and to the experience, yeah. Don't dilute the soap. 

SR Yeah.

DS I think that's probably gonna end up being the episode title. 

SR Don't dilute the soap. 

EP Probably.

SR Actually, I like that. 

EP Honestly, it probably will be.

SR I kind of like that. Yeah.

EP That's pretty awesome. 

SR Don't dilute the soap, yeah, provide that that luxe experience, because people deserve to feel valued. Like, what, as a consumer, makes me feel valued? When I reach for the soap and it's this, like, really nice…

CR Yeah, I think just everything has been, you know, like, we've been to a bar, great, they have a mocktail, but it's a crafty mocktail. Like, that's, that doesn't do it. Like, you almost, might as well not even serve the mocktail, right?

SR Provide people with quality, and they feel truly cared for.

EP Give them an experience, that's truly experience.

DS That's why those thick paper towels. You're always like, ooh, it’s like, fancy.

SR Oh my god, I love those.

[laughter]

DS You know I'm talking about.

SR I love those.

DS When you go, you're like, Wait, is this paper or is this cloth? 

[laughter]

SR Seriously. Those are so nice. And I'm like, like, every time I go to a bathroom and they have those paper towels, I'm like, “Oh, I'm in a fancy place!”

EP Yeah. And we go to quite a few sorts of like, little bit, little bit like, “Hmm, okay, I see, I see.”

SR Yes, undiluted soap, nice, thick towels.

EP Paper towels.

CR Paper towels.

SR Or, even better, have, like, cloth towels that people throw in a bin, and you wash them. You launder them. That's more sustainable.

DS Way more sustainable, yes, agreed, yes.

SR Yes. All right. Well, this has been so fun. Thank you both for joining us for this conversation today. It really meant a lot, and I love being able to share what you have to say with our community.

CR Thank you for having us. This has, this has been fun. 

[radio tuning sound]

EP I know this episode was about non-alcoholic beverages, but I'm really thirsty after all that talk about the options that are available for people who don't do alcohol because, like we said in the, I think we said this in the show, is that, you know, you and I go on a lot of trips. And there's, like, there's stints of just, like, where you're just going down the line of people trying to give you drinks. You're just like, I can't drink this, it’s so much.

SR Yeah, I can’t, I physically can’t. 

EP It’s so much.

SR But like, give me a beautiful mocktail. Like, I, I love a drink that is visually appealing and that is delicious. You know that that makes me feel hospitality.

EP Yeah, definitely giving people the option of because, like, again, we've said this before in various forms, I think. But like, when you don't give people the option, or, like, a, when you take one group of people who like a specific drink, and you kind of rise it up and make it really special, you don't do it for the other group people, it's, it's very distinct, like, “You're not good enough for us to treat you the same” kind of vibe. And I feel like, with the changes of health and people's preferences evolving, people to be aware of that kind of stuff, or else you're just gonna, like, alienate your audience. 

SR Definitely.

EP And, like, who wants that? 

SR Who wants that? And we're seeing this industry grow so rapidly. There's so much to keep your eye on. Definitely keep your eye out for the opening of Soft Bar. Shout out to Carl Radke for this amazing debut that's coming up. Super excited to see how that goes. And if you're in the New York City area, give it a visit. 

EP Yes.

SR Let us know what you think.

EP Yes. Gonna go and try to go there at some point and check it out.

SR Definitely.

EP Because it sounds super fun.

SR It does. Well, that's all for today.

EP Yep, we'll see you guys next time, on Smart Start Radio.

[Music]

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