How Can You Avoid Misrepresenting Native People in Your Homeschool?

Unlock the secrets to an inclusive homeschool curriculum with our special guest, Kelly Tudor, who shares indispensable advice on Native representation. Learn how to identify and avoid harmful stereotypes by sourcing materials directly from Native authors. Kelly guides us through recognizing legitimate authors by their nation affiliations and the red flags in nostalgic yet misleading books like "Little House on the Prairie" and "Island of the Blue Dolphins." 

Together, we'll examine how to critically assess your current homeschool library and take actionable steps toward a more respectful and accurate portrayal of Native cultures.

The discussion broadens to include the impact of social media, Native news sources, and vibrant pop culture on our understanding of Native communities. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for creating a more informed and respectful educational experience.

For links and the transcript, visit wokehomeschooling.com/podcast

Transcript

Educating Yourself on Native Representation

Delina 0:00

How can we avoid misrepresenting Native people in our homeschools? Can you trust that your library doesn't have books that stereotype Native Americans and advance harmful stereotypes? How do you know if your current homeschool curriculum is perpetuating the same issues taught in traditional schools? You've heard it said that you don't know what you don't know, and this is why it's important to homeschool yourself. Welcome to the podcast where we learn and unlearn. I'm your host, delena. You're about to listen to part two of my interview with Kelly Tudor. If you haven't listened to the first part, I invite you to pause here and listen to episode five, where Kelly and I talk about how stereotypes and erasure and misinformation about who Native Americans are today and in history is harmful. In this episode, kelly gives us practical ways we can make sure we're stopping the cycle of miseducation in our homeschools. She also offers resources to guide us. Take a listen. What advice would you give a parent who's going to the library? You know, does a book haul? What things should they look for?

Kelly 1:07

So I guess. I mean, I always tell my students, kids and adults the best way to learn about us is directly from us, right? We tell our stories best, you know. It's not that, like, native authors can't make mistakes. Of course we can, but the kinds of mistakes aren't the kinds that are the basic info or, you know, like the general ideas. You know, we're not going to stereotype ourselves, you know, and so, and it's not that there's no non-native authors out there that can write correct about us. There's a few, but for the most part, you know, trying to avoid books by non-Native authors in general, and using books and materials made by Native people. A lot of the classics and a lot of the books that adults have so much nostalgia over are horrible. They're so, so horrible, they're racist, they're full of stereotypes, misinformation, they call it name names people.

Kelly 2:14

Oh, I mean lots of really really popular books like um gosh I don't know the little house people are so nostalgic about those but Sign of the Beaver and the Paul Goebel books like the Girl who Loved Wild Horses, those, those picture books, paul Goebel, those are really popular and they're not. They're not good. Trying to think some of the others Island of the Blue Dolphins, that one's really popular. Walk Two Moons, the Magic Treehouse books there's several really terrible Magic Treehouse books that you know just, and there's there's so many books that people have so much nostalgia over in their past and they're just really, they're really awful at how they represent and present Native people.

Delina 3:01

But how do you do when you read somebody's biography on uh in the in a book? Like you know, the back of the book tells about the author. They they will usually say that they're a native author yeah, um, I mean usually they'll.

Kelly 3:19

If they're legitimately a native author, they'll usually be identified by their nation, like, like, if, if there was an about about me kind of thing in in a book somewhere, it wouldn't say you know, kelly is native american, it would say kelly is lipan apache, right. And so you can actually usually tell if somebody's like um in in those about the author kind of things it says, like the person is, um, you know, part native american or something, versus like the person is from you know part Native American or something, versus like the person is from you know the Lippant Apache tribe of Texas, right. Like, identifying by nation is a really, really key element of those things, because Native people we identify with our nation first, and so that's usually what's going to be found in those, something that's really common. There's some really popular books by non-Native authors about Natives or folktales and stuff, and there's this really common theme that you'll find in the About the Authors that'll say something about like you know, gerald McDermott was fascinated with Indians or fascinated with Native American folktales, or so-and-so was fascinated with Indians from an early age.

Kelly 4:27

That word fascinated shows up a lot in those author bios. I, I'm serious, it's there, it's there all the time, like it's. It's really patronizing too. Like you know that we're just something to be fascinated with, right, um, but you see that, and, and so key words like that, like the author is Indian or American, or they're fascinated, right, that's a hit that you know that's probably not a good one, right, whereas if it identifies a person by their nation, then that's probably going to be legitimate and much better.

Delina 5:00

Yeah, you're usually not fascinated by your own. Yeah, you're usually not fascinated by your own, by your own story. What resources would you recommend for parents to educate themselves? I like to say, you know, homeschooling parents need to homeschool, homeschool yourself, right yeah.

Kelly 5:25

We're always um, yeah, for sure, um. So definitely the best place to start would be like the websites of native nations, specifically, if you want to. So, first of all, like a lot of times, people learn about native peoples like the native americans, like all together, like as if we're some like the Native Americans. You know, um, and you see that a lot too. Like you know, the Native Americans did this, or the Native Americans did that, or whatever, um, but you know, there's over 600 Native Nations in the United States alone and we're all different and we all have different histories, even um, and so you all have different um. There's some language families where you'll have similarities and dialects within nations that are very close and similar, but, yes, different languages, different traditions, different cultures, different foods, values, religions, histories you know all of it. So we're all different and every Native Nation is unique. So, you know, first, first of all, learn the names of native nations and then go to their websites and learn directly from those nations, like, oh, we live in the homelands of such and such nation. Let's go and find that nation's website and then they're going to have a lot of information, usually um. So that's, you know, really one of the first places to start. Um, I really love the resources at Oyateorg that's O-Y-A-T-Eorg. They have some really great resources. One of them is called how to Tell the Difference and it's a guide to evaluating children's books and literature for these issues. They also have an additional criteria guide that goes along with that, and then on their website they have a resources tab that also has some other really great resources and information, some specifics like about Thanksgiving and that kind of thing, as well as their living stories. I really love their living stories because they're about the experiences of Native kids in education and so those are really great as well. So oefkaorg is a really wonderful site, especially that how to Tell the Difference guide. I use that a lot to in teaching, especially training teachers.

Kelly 7:27

American Indians and Children's Literature blog by Debbie Reese. She has a lot of really great reviews and she'll she'll say not recommended or recommended. You know she reviews a lot of things. You know places to find good Native made materials and books would be like strongnationscom, eaglespeakercom, birchbarkbookscom and, you know, even like the National Museum of the American Indian has an education website called Native Knowledge 360. That's amazing. That has a lot of really awesome stuff, especially their essential understandings. Those are fantastic, especially even for adults just to educate themselves to, because they don't even have those essential understandings. Um, and so you know, using the native knowledge 360 is a great resource. Um, illuminatives is a newer organization that puts out a lot of really great educational stuff.

Kelly 8:21

Um, then, like specific books, I definitely recommend An Indigenous People's History of the United States. I know a lot of parents want to use the young people's version for their kids, but I recommend adults reading the unabridged, the adult version. It's so much more detail and there's a lot packed in there. So An Indigenous People's History of the United States is a fantastic resource For younger kids, younger kids. A kid's guide to native American history is a really good book.

Kelly 8:48

Um, and another one by Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz, who wrote the indigenous people's history. Um is all the real Indians died off and it's myths and stereotypes. Um, and also another one, american Indian stereotypes and realities, is a good book. Um, just kind of addressing some of those things that a lot of people think about us. Atlas of Indian Nations is a Native-made like not encyclopedia, but a big reference book about Native nations.

Kelly 9:16

Another big reference book would be like American Indian Contributions to the World Really good one as well. That just shows how much we've contributed to the world. Again, we're not just passive recipients of history, but we've been influencing things. So you know books like that, and then you know even social media Following like Native people and Native influencers on social media is a great way to learn about us and to see what's going on in our world. Following Native news sources like Native News Online and Indian Country Today Even there's like an entire subset of TikTok that people call Native TikTok. That's got a lot of great little one-minute videos where you can learn so much. My sister's got her own channel and it's a great source because there's a lot of really awesome stuff about Native people out there on that. So social media, oddly enough, is a really great place to find info about Native people, who we are, issues we're facing, things like that, you know. Following that stuff is a good idea as well.

Delina 10:19

So I want to ask this question, but I don't want to be one of those people. So you know, in another situation I'm the recipient of the question. Well, what do y'all like? To be called now? Or do you see what I'm saying? Like I hear my thinking and how annoyed I am when I'm the recipient. So bear with me, but I feel like the average person, me included, doesn't have even the language, or like we don't know enough to even ask the right questions or ask the right questions in the right way. We don't want to say something that's offensive and sometimes we silence ourselves because we we don't even know Right. We don't even know right and you feel like you should know right Because we've been coexisting in the same space. It's another nation. It's just like if you went to another nation and you don't know anything and it feels weird because we're even you and I are in the same vicinity. You know what I'm saying yeah, so it.

Delina 11:27

So it feels intimidating. Yeah To, and and even you know, I asked you a bunch of questions and I have to get over myself asking the questions and being open to correction. Like just yesterday, I I wrote down that you were a member and you told me it's not member, it's citizen. Like, do you see what I'm saying? Like I wrote down that you were a member and you told me it's not member, it's citizen. Like do you see what I'm saying? Like, even things like that, we don't have the right language, right, yeah, so what would you say to those of us who want to do right, but you know, just feel intimidated by so much. Like 600 nations. I can't, I can't find out about 600 nations.

Kelly 12:15

You see, I'm saying, I mean, even people like me and even people with like master's degrees and PhD in native studies, can't tell you everything about all 600 nations, right? Um, you know over 600. Really. There's 574 federally recognized nations and then there's a lot more state recognized and unrecognized that are also legitimate nations, and so you know over 600 nations, and even, even people with, like, phds in Native Studies can't tell you everything about those nations. Or even, you know, I meet people sometimes that I'm like I've only heard of that nation one time. You know, and, and, and I teach native studies and I'm a native person, you know, and I'm around native people all the time, right, I mean, I guess not all the time like you know, aren't my community. You know, this is my community, and and sometimes I even come across things, like you know, I don't know, because there's so many nations. It's just like trying to know something about every, every country in the world. Right, you're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to do that. Nobody can.

Kelly 13:10

Um, so you know, like I've already said, you know, definitely, learn directly from us, use books and materials made by us. Um, you know, try to unlearn what you were taught and relearn using native made materials. Um, you know, pick up some books for yourself to read, follow social media pages, follow native news sources, things like that, using those guides like I told you on OYKorg, you know, using the how to tell the difference and the additional criteria. And you know, pop culture actually Native pop culture is amazing and it's a really great way to learn about us. If you want to know about young contemporary native people, jump into our pop culture. There's music and sports and movies and fashion and art and comedy. Um, even our memes, right, like I, I could teach an entire class about native memes. I have over 900 on my phone. Um, like, there's so much you can actually pick up from our pop culture. Um, just about about us, and get an understanding, you know, of who we are and and some of the issues we're facing and some of our triumphs today too. Um, and, like I said, native TikTok another great place.

Kelly 14:15

But, you know, visit cultural centers and museums run by Native nations. If you're near one. Actually, you know, here in North Texas, just a couple hours north, there's several in Oklahoma, right, some cultural centers. There's a new one opening in a couple of weeks, I think. And then there's also, you know, visiting community events that are open to the public, like powwows. You know, most powwows are open to the public and they're a really great way to just get in and interact with us and meet native people and see us as people see us as contemporaries. You know, people see us as contemporaries.

Kelly 14:55

You know, um, and so you know, just finding local native community events that are public events and and interacting with us and seeing our communities and, um, you know, spending time with us, that's another great way as well. Um, I find a lot of times people I think are, um, either most intimidated or have so much more misinformation and ignorance about us when they have never interacted with us. Right, but when you come and start interacting with us, then, you know, you start picking up on things and learning things and learning how to ask those questions, you know, and so that's a really great way. It's just just interacting with native communities and native people but not just I.

Delina 15:36

While you were talking, I'm like, okay, we need to pump the brakes on two things, like if, if I say kelly come to dinner, I don't mean kelly come to dinner to give us a native american a native american, uh Right, you see what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And the other thing is just because you know something and you learn something, it doesn't mean you get to appropriate that it's not yours.

Kelly 16:04

Right, and that's a big issue in with native communities. There's a big issue with cultural appropriation and there's a lot of harm done through that. So yeah, that's definitely another issue. But you know, I think when people learn from us directly, using materials made by us and following social media and native news sources and things like that, I think people tend to become more aware of those issues and start to learn.

Kelly 16:33

You know what is and isn't okay through that, and so you know even like okay, so powwowscom has a national powwow calendar and you can find local powwows near you. But they also have a whole page about powwow etiquette, like what's okay to do at powwows and what's not okay to do at powwows, like what does this mean? There's whole pages about what is a powwow and what are the dances and what's the regalia, and like you can learn a whole bunch of stuff before going to one. So you, you have an idea of, you know what's socially and culturally acceptable and what's not. So you know. So there are resources like that out there. You know, if you want to come to a community event, you want to come to a powwow, you know, go to powwowscom, find their guide on powwow etiquette, you know and kind of read through that and understand what's okay and what's not okay, because we do. We do have different cultural understandings and different cultural norms, norms and so you know, trying to navigate those can be difficult, so that's why things like that exist. So Awesome.

Delina 17:32

Well, I just have a couple more questions. What do you hope will be the result of children growing up with a better understanding of native people.

Kelly 17:45

I mean, just on a personal level, how my kids are treated. Yeah, you know, I never wanted them to experience all the things that I grew up experiencing and unfortunately they have, even though they don't go to public school, because that's the way society still is. And, you know, things are sometimes improving and changing in some areas, but in other areas not. And so just on a personal level, like just the way like my community and my people and my kids and my family are treated will hopefully get better, you know. And then, on a higher level, there, you know, the way that we're portrayed in media and pop culture and society will be directed by us, like we'll be able to direct the education and portrayals of ourselves rather than somebody else's ideas about us.

Kelly 18:35

And, you know, the issues that we're facing social justice issues and civil rights issues that we're facing will hopefully start to reduce and diminish. You know, maybe we won't have to face these issues as much. You know, ultimately, hopefully they'll go away, but I don't know that that'll happen in my lifetime. So, um, which is I? I know that sounds kind of defeatist, but that I'm with you.

Kelly 18:59

I'm with you on this. So I know, I know it sounds really pessimistic and defeatist and it's not a great thing, but especially the older, we get right, right, yeah.

Advocating for Cultural Understanding and Justice

Kelly 19:08

so um know just that those social changes will start happening. The way the government treats us and the policies and laws and issues of treaties and sovereignty and things like that maybe will improve. Like, deb Haaland was just appointed the very first ever Native American cabinet secretary. She's over the Department of the Interior. There's never been a native secretary over the Department of the Interior and that's where the Bureau of the Interior.

Kelly 19:34

There's never been a native secretary over the Department of the Interior and that's where the Bureau of Indian Affairs Right, and so the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and we're stuffed into the department with land and animals. But we're there and there's been a few native leaders of the BIA, but not over the Department of Interior, and so that's the first time. And so now Deb Haaland is like we're all excited and she could do amazing things, but at the same time she's going to receive a lot of pushback and not be able to accomplish everything she wants to. Um, and I'm hoping maybe, as more Native people get into those kinds of positions, maybe those changes can start being made, um, you know, and and they'll get less pushback, you know, and they'll be able to actually implement some things. And so I think just society overall, in general, cultural understanding and respect of different cultures and different people, is going to improve society for everybody.

Kelly 20:21

And you know, the way I teach my kids about other cultures and other people is the same way that I want people to learn about mine and us you know, and so I use the ideas of how I know people treat us and how people learn about us, and I use those ideas and I apply those to how my kids interact with other cultures and learn from other cultures. And you know like we use Black authors and Asian authors and Latino authors when we're learning about those subjects and those peoples and those cultures. You know, Because that makes the most sense. Just like when I tell people use native authors, I'm going to do the same thing for other cultures, and so I just I think that the ideas of cultural understanding and equity and respect can really have a massive impact on just how everybody is treated and interacts.

Delina 21:13

Yep, let me tell you, what I hope will happen is not just you know how, how, um, all of us, all of all people of color, are treated in this country, but justice, because you got to fix all that stuff that's been done in the past. You know, it's not enough to just say, okay, we're gonna do better now, in to towards the future, and, um, y'all, y'all need some land back and I think that's why some people are scared of the idea of like justice for Native people is because that means land back.

Kelly 21:54

And then what? What does that mean for other people on this land? Right, and I think that's why a lot of people are really scared of that concept, like with the Supreme Court ruling in Oklahoma that actually returns like half of Oklahoma back to Native nations. Like people are like okay, what happens now? And that's something that people have to figure out. But I think that's why yeah, because what can happen?

Delina 22:20

I mean, how can we go forward without that? You took it because it was valuable, so give it back because it's valuable, right and meaningful.

Kelly 22:34

And then what does that look like? What does that look like then politically and socially and and I think that's what what intimidates people, but um yeah, yeah, thank you so much, kelly, yeah well, you know.

Kelly 22:45

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the um, the opportunity to come on here and talk with you, as well as being able to work with you. I know that early on, when I first saw you know your, your curriculum and stuff, I probably wasn't the most gracious about some things and but I really appreciate that you've reached out and that you've been working with me and that we've been able to have this dialogue and learn, you know, and work through that. So I do, I really do appreciate that opportunity to be able to do that, cause I know that sometimes I can be, I can be really upfront about some things, when, when certain you know, when certain companies are are, you know, have have some things, you know, issues and things and and I'm not always the most gracious about it and I know that that can be tough, you know. So I I do appreciate you reaching out and being able to to work with you on this.

Delina 23:36

So yeah, I now I'm gonna go back because I I never saw any of the comments.

Kelly 23:43

No, I mean just just, you know, like just being able to say like about companies, like yeah, oh, this is this, this book is problematic, this is an issue. Oh, there's not.

Kelly 23:52

You know, and and I don't know that I ever said anything like harsh and terrible in me you know, I you know, but, like the internet, knows everything, right but just being able to point out like, oh, there's, there's some issues here that aren't okay and and I have some companies don't take that very well and some do, and so I appreciate that you were like open to listening and and, um, you know, being able to like work through this and make those changes, and I think that is going to make your curriculum, um, that much better, but also definitely something that can be, you know, recommended that I can enthusiastically say, yes, this has, you know, native voices in it. Um, and so I do. I really do appreciate that it really shows the kind of company that you are and the kind of company that you're running and, you know, shows that that attitude of of being open and learning and everything. So I do appreciate that about the work that you're doing.

Delina 24:47

I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. What did you learn from these interviews with Kelly Tudor? What do you think you can do better in your homeschool so that you can ensure that you are using great resources and not continuing to perpetuate myths and stereotypes in your homeschool? If you'd like a list of the resources mentioned in this episode, head over to wokehomeschoolingcom slash podcast. The show notes and transcripts are there as a resource. Until next time, go unlearn something today.

Announcer 25:19

Homeschool Yourself is a production of Woke Homeschooling Inc. For show notes and links to things mentioned in the episode, visit wokehomeschoolingcom slash podcast. Woke Homeschooling empowers parents to teach their kids an inclusive, truthful history. We invite you to visit our website and download a sample of the history curriculum we offer for kids. Visit us at wokehomeschoolingcom.