How Do You Introduce Hard Topics in an Age-Appropriate Way?

How can we guide our children to understand and appreciate the diverse world around them through literature? Join us as we explore this compelling question with Amber, diving into the transformative power of stories. From picture books introducing toddlers to diverse characters to historical narratives for elementary learners, we discuss how literature serves as both a window and a mirror, allowing young minds to see themselves and understand others. By fostering an inclusive literary environment, we lay the groundwork for empathy and awareness in our children's formative years.

Moving into more complex conversations, we address the importance of engaging older children and teens with narratives that challenge and educate. Delve into the world of memoirs, biographies, and contemporary fiction that confront societal issues, helping young readers become active participants in creating positive change. Alongside, we emphasize the importance of being an "askable" parent, creating an environment where any topic is open for discussion. Learn about practical tools, like “car questions,” that can help maintain open communication and ensure children feel heard and supported.

In the final segment, we turn our focus to empowering parents through inclusive historical education. By encouraging homeschooling parents to embrace an ongoing journey of learning, we offer resources and support to make history truthful and enriching. Our mission at Woke Homeschooling Inc. is to provide an inclusive curriculum that engages both parents and children in a shared learning experience. Join us as we navigate these complexities and equip our children with the understanding and respect necessary to thrive in a diverse world.

For links and the transcript, visit wokehomeschooling.com/podcast

Transcript

Navigating Sensitive Topics With Children

Delina 0:00

We want to talk to our kids about important and sensitive subjects. We want them to know and be able to process hard history. But how do we know what they're ready for? How can books help us broach these topics? Welcome to Homeschool Yourself. My name is Delina and I am your host In this episode. Amber and I talk about Chapter 5 in her book, a Place to Belong. Amber expounds on the concept of windows and mirrors and talks about how to be mindful of your child's age and stage so that they can understand context and not misrepresent the messages about themselves and others that we're trying to teach them. Take a listen, okay, so you have these stages still talking about hard history, these stages of childhood that will help guide us on what is appropriate for each stage. Will you help us with that? You start with the early years.

Amber 0:56

Yeah, sure. So in the early years, a lot this is your toddlers and preschoolers and the books that your goal is to introduce them to characters and people and books from diverse backgrounds, Because much of what the children are assimilating at this age it comes from illustrations and picture books and you want to make sure that they're featuring and you want to normalize characters with various skin tones and hair textures and and you want to validate and discuss their observations that children make about appearance. We've always in the past hushed them. Don't say that. You're not supposed to say that. But no, yeah, okay, did you say, hold on. No, I said, don't notice that. Oh, yes, exactly, don't notice, right. And so it's like.

Amber 1:43

So if she says to mommy she has big hair like me, or that boy has very, very dark skin, yes, I mean he does, and let's talk about that. And what does that mean? So children at that age, they really enjoy hearing the same stories repeatedly and they might even start to like kind of memorize or read along with you, kind of memorize or read along with you. And you have to make sure that the diverse books are just as readily available as those featuring white children and animals and inanimate objects, because that's most of what's out there. So you're looking for the racial diversity, the differing abilities, and it's really nice when you can find stories that those things are taking place without that overtly being the book's topic, yeah, so again, we're looking to normalize that. We're trying to celebrate differences without judgment and the key message for that age group is not everybody's like me and that's cool. So that's what. That's what we're looking for.

Amber 2:41

Not everybody like me. That's for stage one, that's stage one. So stage two is your early elementary. So kind of think kindergarten to third grade and these books are going to start to really progress as your children mature. So it's not that we're trying to burden them with every single historical truth known to man, but we do want to allow them the opportunity to journey through their books and develop an understanding of harsh realities over time. So you don't want to let fear this is where really fear starts to really kick in with people. You don't want to let that fear or the desire to protect your child's innocence prevent you from sharing hard history or from initiating difficult conversations when appropriate. So you want to keep in mind also something that I learned younger siblings often move along faster than firstborns because they're generally exposed to more at an earlier age. They're hearing the conversations with their siblings and so you'll find that, as you know, if you have more than one child, this stage is going to ramp up faster than probably it did with your first kid. So when children become school age, they can continue reading what they've been reading.

Amber 3:50

But you want to layer on some additional types of books. So one type of book would be folktales, fairy tales and tall tales featuring characters of color from various cultures, and those can be retellings. A lot of those now that are available are retellings from Hans Christian Andersen and the Brothers Grimm. Those are good. But also I'm looking for those original stories that are original to those cultures because they have their own stories. So just retelling the story with a, you know, a colorful character is one thing, but also we have we all have our own stories. So these magical tales, those will be like your tales of intrigue and friendship and justification for the inexplicable and enchanted adventures and all of those. But no matter what the subject or the storyteller, they should include these faces of color and people moving through imaginary places and spaces, these spaces of color and people moving through imaginary places and spaces. You'll also want to include picture books featuring modern children and families from different ethnicities, cultures and countries. So those are books of not just old, of how it was, but like how they're living today, because most children savor opportunities to meet other children in their books. I love books like this, but you have to be careful because you don't want to make it seem like other people are all exotic and foreign and sometimes those books can be a little bit trite like that. So I like to introduce engaging geography books about other regions of the world and within the regions within our own country. It kind of increases our child's sense of place.

Amber 5:29

The third type of book for that age group would be historical picture books and biographies highlighting the lives, specifically the lives of women and people of color. So I don't even need to go through the importance of that. But now you're getting into the nonfiction and picture books. Those are just going to carry through all the way. I don't think you ever outgrow picture books, in my opinion. And the last one would be chapter books featuring and including BIPOC.

Amber 5:54

So you know, these would be books that bring about key messages, that take you from that littles category to a more mature thought that people not only look different than me, but they live differently and despite our differences we still have a lot in common. And here's a key, important fact you know people who are different from me. They also love their families and have hopes and dreams and like to have fun. And they should know at this time that historically some people treated others differently, unfairly or maliciously, just because of how they look, and that sometimes it still happens today and they should be able to understand the terms prejudice and racism and and that that they're both wrong and so they're not too little to understand those. Those are actually foundational thoughts and so from there they can spring into the late elementary years and it's more of the same right Every step you're building. So they're still reading those same types of books, but now you're you're including more diverse, diverse poetry books and short stories, biographies and historical fiction.

Amber 7:12

And I think that you know some parents feel that they have a hard time in this age because the kids are going from learning to read Now they're reading to learn, and sometimes they only are interested in kind of more of the bubble gum topics and not some of these richer topics.

Amber 7:29

Yeah, and I think that that's okay. Um, some kids will be kids, different kids will be attracted to different things, but that's where your read come in, so the kids may choose what they read in their own time, but you choose the family read aloud, and that's where you can fill gaps and holes that you see within your own family. And your key messages for you know, for late elementary are that indigenous and African people had a long, rich history of civilization, traditions and culture well before Europeans came to America and took the land and established the Atlantic slave trade, like there was like a whole lot that happened before that. You want your child to be able to say I understand racism, I understand how to actively resist it and how to handle myself when I experience it or witness it, because they will. And we need to give them language for those complicated feelings that they will experience when they do witness it. And an important fact for that age is that they know that people are not all good or all bad, but they are a mix of both.

Amber 8:31

Yeah, they have to be able to like developmentally.

Delina 8:35

That's when they start to understand nuance. Before that, everything is like black and white. Black and white.

Amber 8:40

Yes, that's right, and yeah, you're wanting. That's where the age appropriateness comes in. You know when people are talking about age appropriate, to me it's more how the story is told versus whether the story is told. Oh, that's good. So, yeah, so you just move on there from middle school and here. You know your kids are typically gonna start outpacing you. You're not gonna be able to read everything that they read ahead of time, and that's okay. They are growing as readers, as learners. You want them to start to really dig deeply into the joys and tensions that are framed within powerful literary mirrors and windows.

Amber 9:19

And if you have a concern about a book's content or maturity level, you want to rely on in-depth, like kind of book summaries and reviews. But this is why being in community is important. I need to be able to say oh, delina, I'm thinking about this book for my kids. What do you think? I mean, we've had these conversations before in real life right, because I can't know all the things, you can't know all the things, but being in community as parents, we can help each other. It's just like how I would get a book you know recommended for myself. A friend will tell me Ooh, you, you can't miss this, you got to get this, or like you can skip that. It's the same thing for our kids, um, and ideally our middle schoolers will begin thinking um.

Amber 10:02

My parents and I speak openly and frequently about many issues in society, um, and I enjoy learning more about the world around me. I like reading books with kids who are different than me, because it helps me understand what life is like for different people, and the stories are just so good. Like, you want them to enjoy it, so you have to choose your books and your book list for your children wisely. They should be saying I try to get to know lots of different types of people and I genuinely enjoy and appreciate friendship with others. And don't abandon your read alouds at this age. A lot of times people are like oh, my kids are in middle school, I don't have to read aloud anymore. Keep those read alouds, those family read alouds, going. They're hard to introduce at a higher age, but if you've always done it and you keep doing it, they won't think anything of it.

Delina 10:44

It's awesome because it's like watching a movie together, but you know, taking two weeks to watch right's like you're all into the story.

Amber 10:54

It's, it's, yeah, it makes for a lot of family jokes, like inside jokes and like references and kind of things we say under our breath like, oh gosh, here we go, you know, and we'll all kind of giggle because we all know what what's happening. Um, and you know, as middle schoolers walk away and they're starting to head into their teenage years, what we're looking for them to feel is that, for them to understand that there are vibrant communities of color worldwide, full of inspired, talented people, but the history of colonialism and racism has impacted today's cross-cultural relationships. It's not just something that happened long ago. There is an impact for today and we need them to understand that there's a rich history of the immigrant experience in our country, including the contributions that they've made and the hardships that they've endured and that's not just the Western European immigrants, but all across the world and also that they're starting to look globally and outwardly more, so that they can say that some of the dynamics that I'm noticing impacting communities of color in my country, I'm noticing that those are actually played out in other areas of the world as well. And then, finally, you have the teenage years and I'm just entering into that area and it's incredible. I love it.

Facilitating Conversations About Hard History

Amber 12:18

These children are young adults and they're becoming young adults and before we launch them out into whatever their next thing is going to be, they need to have been exposed to mature ideas, not Not vulgar, right? When I say mature, I'm not talking about vulgar ideas. I'm talking about real, unfiltered ideas of what the world is really like. It's much safer for them to encounter that within our homes while we're there, to discuss it, and to talk them through these things and experiencing them together, than to send them out. Talk them through these things and experiencing them together than to send them out and let them try to figure and fumble through it on their own. Specifically, the books that you know we'd be looking for to address that type of history at this age would be memoirs and biographies by and about people of color and women, those controversial landmark or historical novels that we may have been avoiding in previous years.

Amber 13:16

Now is the time they've got to read those. They have to read those because they are. It's not just about the story, it's about how that story impacted the society, the society that we live in. It's part of history, um contemporary fiction that allows teens to enter the world of others, so not just like these old books. I know homeschoolers especially. I come from a Charlotte Mason background. We love some old books, but that's not it. These contemporary books have issues that children and young adults are facing today and they need to be able to work through some of that. Through this kind of separation where there's some space between them and the characters in the book. It allows them to experience and work through things before they encounter them in real life.

Amber 14:03

Nonfiction books by global authors that are not just American authors but are global authors writing from their perspective of their people. And then, finally, I really like thematic anthologies and collections of short stories at this age because they are becoming shorter on time. Right, there's so much that they need to read and want to experience and those short stories can pack a powerful, powerful punch. So those are examples. I mean. Basically, that's the very short of it. I guess the message for the teen years is that history is complicated.

Announcer 14:39

Okay.

Amber 14:39

And we're still experiencing the complex legacy of our country's unique freedoms and brutal past today. And so they need to know that they have choices for the kind of person that they're going to be and how they can choose to interact with other people, and that not being part of the problem is not enough. That's not enough. So they can't just not harm, they have to actually help and be part of the solution. It requires a level of active involvement, so I think that's what we want for our team, so that's like a. Very obviously in the book I go much more in depth, but that's kind of where I see us going and taking our children and, as you can see it's, we're not here for shock value or inappropriate sharing, but that we're starting at the beginning and we're building the whole way.

Delina 15:31

Yeah, I love that and along with that, so at every stage, and we're building the whole way, yeah, I love that, and along with that, so at every stage, they're going to have some hard history, some some complicated stuff not simplistic stuff, stuff they're going to have to think through and work through in their own hearts, right.

Delina 15:46

But, like one of the the things that you bring out in your book that I love so much is just creating a home where those conversations can happen. So it's not I'm scared to talk like I see something in a book and I don't want mom to know that I'm reading this, but you know what I mean just creating that environment in your home where these conversations can come up and they can trust that they're going to get honest answers. So tell me a little bit about how to cultivate that environment and our posture towards hard history yeah.

Amber 16:25

Yeah, I read some years back about this clinical psychologist and he was a sex educator and he said that we should all be askable parents and he meant that we should always answer a child's questions about sex whenever they ask and I was like, okay, I was on board with that. But I think it's broader than just sex. I think that we should all be askable parents in every aspect, because that is part of belonging is feeling that there is no topic off limits. The people that I'm closest with in this world are the people that I don't have to talk very haltingly, making sure I don't say the wrong thing. It's the people where I can just say it, I can just ask it, you know, without fear, without judgment, and we should be those people for our children. So that means we have to be available and you know we got to get our faces out of our phone sometimes and and and to face and give our our eye contact and attention. And if we can't engage when the child first asks us, I always say put it in your calendar like an alarm because you want to tell them. I can't talk to you about this right now but this evening when I get back probably around seven, 30, let's talk about this. And then you got to put an alarm because you'll forget.

Amber 17:44

And I always circle back and say, okay, I really want to get back to what you asked me earlier. I was running out the door but yeah, I'm here, let's talk about that. You have to give young permission, young children permission to wait. So by being an askable parent, trust me on this you will raise children who feel very comfortable asking you all of their questions, and that's great, that's what you want. But you have to train them that there's a time and place. And so for me, we talk about car questions. So a car question means you saw something while we were walking around in Target and your alarms went off. Something is not computing and you want to talk about it. While we're standing in Target is not the time to talk about that. It's a car question, and you can just tell me I have a car question and they don't even have to tell me because I saw what they saw, I love it.

Delina 18:34

I love code words.

Fostering Open Conversation With Children

Amber 18:35

Yes, we have a car question. I saw what they saw and I already know usually what their question is going to be and that's okay and that's partially. The car question is partially so. We can speak freely, so it's a benefit to us. But really it's about making sure that my children's right to know or to ask doesn't override their responsibility to treat other people well. So we're not going to point and whisper and talk about people and whatever. But you can definitely ask me all the questions. To be an askable parent. You cannot freak out, so you know if your kids are learning about new things and you know let's go back. This is just such a easy example. But, like Sally Hemings and my daughter was like, so cause, like easy example but, like Sally Hemings and my daughter was like, so, cause, like?

Amber 19:22

and I was like, yeah, girl, you know, if they're old enough to ask, then they're old enough to get some amount of the answer and you can judge, engage that based on your child's maturity. But if she wouldn't be asking and she wasn't picking that up, okay, so you can't freak out and be like I'm not going to talk to you about that. Yeah, you got to do it. And I'm like, okay, let's do it. I always wait for them to ask the question. I knew what she wanted to talk about, but I didn't know how far, because I you might tell too much. Maybe they weren't asking all of that. But you know she, she wanted to know how the baby came and that didn't make sense. You know why would you? Why would she want to be his girlfriend?

Announcer 19:57

And.

Amber 19:58

I talk about that and I think just a couple more things about being an askable parent. If you're going to set up this type of environment, you want to keep it within the family. This is very important to me, especially in the time, this time of social media. Don't share your children's controversial questions with other people. One, because we've seen we've all seen time and time again that all of that stuff comes back, can come back later. You don't know what your child's going to want to do or who they're going to want to be, and they don't need a social media trail or even your neighbor or anybody knowing that your kid once asked the most bigoted question in the world or that they said something that was really foul about a whole group of people. I would be mortified if my mom or my sister or my husband shared some of the things that I say and have asked in our private conversations.

Delina 20:50

Amber Alexa is listening.

Amber 20:53

Alexa can't be in this room though. She's in the kitchen. We keep it real in the kitchen. You know light, light conversations. But yeah, that's funny, um, alexa's listening.

Amber 21:03

I gotta do that, um, but yeah, so those those things like I want to give my kids the same respect that I want from other people, um, and then you have to be willing to revisit the same topic repeatedly, like you think you talked about it and it's over. But it's not over for kids, because they're going to come back, they're going to go away, they're going to think about it, they're going to come back and you can't be like we already talked about this, because now they're going deeper there. It's like a spiral, they're spiraling back around. So you know, I think answer is I don't know, but we can talk about it or let's figure it out together. I definitely think don't sugarcoat things. Don't ever lie. It's much better to tell them a little bit of the truth than a whole lot of a lie. So if you feel in your heart you cannot tell the whole truth to their question, still tell the truth, but just tell a thin layer of it and build upon it later.

Delina 22:08

But you don't want to lose that trust. I feel like some of this stuff is like requiring us to, because sometimes I don't have the answer. A lot of times I don't have the answer or I have a canned answer. Then maybe I heard or was told and I was like I don't want to tell them that. So I'm like, let me, let me think through this. So some of this is like reparenting ourselves and relearning what we learned, you know, in history rethinking thoughts, that ways of thinking right, rethinking our worldview. Like so much of this, active parenting and intentional homeschooling is um homeschooling ourselves oh, absolutely.

Delina 22:54

I mean that's definitely true.

Amber 22:55

I mean that I think that's part of why I always say this is the best job in the whole world. I mean, like I feel like my responsibility is to learn, you know, alongside my child, like that's awesome, I'm loving it, think it's important that we're willing to update our answers. So there have been times where I've told my kids one thing and I'm sorry. I have gotten more information since then, I have been more informed, my position has changed and I can go back to them and say hey, I know I told you that such and such and such, but now that I've, you know, thought about it more, I can see that actually this is what I'm thinking now, or I think this is more true at this point, and I think your child will respect that. And, whether they do or not, that's life, right, that's real and we want to model that.

Delina 23:50

Amber, I love all of that wisdom that you shared with us, just about how to do this and not be scared about the outcome, because the more real we can be, the more real they'll. They'll grow up to be right no, I think that's true and that's what we want, right?

Amber 24:09

we're not trying to create this image of perfection? Um, yes, it's. We're not perfect History sure not perfect. And we're not the heroes? No, no, we're not. And I mean, I think that the earlier that our children can come to understand the nature of humanity and the ebbs and flows of life, the better. And again, the story will unfold more and more as they grow, all the way through to the end of their days. They will hopefully be true lifelong learners, as we both are, and we're still putting the story, piecing the story together, and we just want them to be comfortable with the idea of knowing. I think that's what we we want them to be comfortable with the idea of knowing.

Delina 25:02

Right and that knowing is not fixed right Knowing knowing grows.

Amber 25:08

It's expansive, yeah, it's expansive, and you know it's. I don't usually walk around quoting Charlotte Mason everywhere, but she has something that she wrote that just has always kind of inspired me and I'm paraphrasing. But basically she said at the end of your child's education it's not how much they know that matters most, it's how much they care. I love that. I think that is to me what the whole thing is about.

Empowering Parents Through Inclusive History

Delina 25:35

I love that Well. Thank you, amber. I always love hearing Amber share. If you would like to hear the first part of this interview, you can find it on the very first episode of this podcast. I would love to hear from you. If you look right in your podcast app, whichever one you use, there's a link to text me with any questions that you have. Tell me what you want to learn more about as you homeschool yourself. I'll get on it and find a guest to come chat about that topic. I'm looking forward to your texts. Thank you for listening. Until next time, homeschool yourself.

Announcer 26:07

Homeschool Yourself is a production of Woke Homeschooling Inc. For show notes and links to things mentioned in the episode, visit wokehomeschoolingcom slash podcast. Woke Homeschooling empowers parents to teach their kids an inclusive, truthful history. We invite you to visit our website and download a sample of the history curriculum we offer for kids. Visit us at wokehomeschoolingcom.