St. Brendan's Podcast
The St. Brendan's Podcast exists to equip you with rigorous, practicable, and affordable Christian education for many generations to come.
St. Brendan's Podcast
Discipling Little Ones? Christian Education Requires Christian Teachers
Pastor Voddie Baucham was right when he warned us prophetically, "If you send your children to Caesar for their education, don't be surprised when they come back as Romans." Though, he was not foreseeing something unexpected or counter-intuitive. He did not have some secret gnosis. He was simply reading his Bible, then reading the room.
Why do you think we've seen such rampant apostasy through GovEd? It's because children will naturally imitate their teachers, whether foolish or wise.
Education itself is fundamentally mimetic. It deals in the currency of teaching and learning, of modeling and imitating.
As you've heard it said, "a disciple, when fully trained, will be like his master" (Luke 6:40). He will be LIKE his teacher.
This is one of those principles that the Marxists get, yet we somehow miss. We find once again that "the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light" (Luke 16:8). They understand that, if you want to control the next generation, all you have to do is replace their teachers.
So, what kind of teachers were shepherding your children this last year? What about this next year?
As Christians, you are commanded to provide your children with the paideia of the Lord, a full-orbed education and discipline that is meant to shape them into the image of Jesus Christ. As you will hear today in Episode 6, this obviously includes being formed by Christian teachers. "Imitate me, as I imitate Christ," said the Apostle Paul.
Anyways, education is much more than 2+2=4.
Education is whole-souled formation.
Education is the shaping of loves.
We cannot escape the fact that our teachers WILL shape our child's loves. From the way the teachers dress, to the way they joke, all the way out to what they do in their own leisure. All of these details inevitably force their way into the classroom because the teacher is a real human being endowed with real authority. There's no avoiding it.
Yet, the broader Christian community still carts their children off to the local Public School, forgetting that a child who bakes in that environment 6 hours each day, 170 days each year, for 12 years, cannot help resisting the unrelenting call of their teacher, "BE LIKE ME."
It's a no-brainer then that we would deploy our forces to defend this important hill: Christian education must supply Christian teachers.
In fact, it wouldn't be "Christian" education without them.
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As Pastor Votie Bauckham has said, we cannot continue to send our children to Caesar for their education and be surprised when they come home as Romans. He's right. This certainly shouldn't surprise us, Not after decades, centuries and even millennia of witnessing this principle play out before our very eyes. If you send your kids to the Mormons, you'll get Mormons. If you send your kids to the Mormons, you'll get Mormons. If you send your kids to the liberals, you'll get liberals. If you send your kids to the pagans, you'll get pagans.
Speaker 1:Teachers do have a true authoritative role in your students' lives, even if it's a delegated authority. Your children pick up on every voice, thought, every little action and every minor foible. And if this is true and it is then how much more will they notice the intentional teaching and shaping? A student who marinates in that environment for six hours a day is, looking at his teacher's behavior and patterns like a big sign that shouts be like me. This is good and right.
Speaker 1:This is why we can't stop at simply highlighting the public school's plummeting test scores or their rank degeneracy or their utter failure to equip their students for a robust and meaningful life. The problem is much more fundamental than that. We are witnessing many teachers who reject Christ, disrespect the parents and encourage all kinds of perverse and wicked behavior. It's no wonder, then, that a whole generation of children have apostatized and followed the ways of their foolish mentors. Education, remember, is not just formative for our children. It also demonstrates what's normative, like it or not, every teacher is saying be like me, welcome to the St Brendan's Podcast, where we exist to equip you with rigorous, practicable and affordable Christian education for many generations to come.
Speaker 2:We all belong to Jerusalem above and we'll sail for Eden's shores.
Speaker 3:Welcome to this episode of the St Brandon's Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Eric Kahn, joined by Headmaster Pastor Kevin Love. Kevin, you know what. It's an honor for you to be with me today, For me to be with you, that's right, that's right, kevin. It's been interesting listening to the cold open thinking about education. This week I've also been reading Andrew Isker's book the Boniface Option.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were saying that's been good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's been fascinating, but also sort of like a black pill in terms of waking up to, I think, some of these issues about education One of the things that he said in there. He quotes Joe Sobrin and I was thinking about this as you were reading the cold open, but this is what Joe says In a hundred years, we have gone from teaching Latin and Greek in high school to teaching remedial English in college.
Speaker 1:I read that when you posted it yesterday and I was like yeah, I was cracking up because that's such a good way of stating it. We used to teach Greek and Latin just as a. This was a normal thing right In our schools in high school. I think we've talked about this before, but it was in the entrance exams to Harvard.
Speaker 3:Yes, and he mentions that in the book.
Speaker 1:Oh really. So even as early as you know, like early 18 or as late as early 1800s, you had just a requirement to translate substantial sections of the book of John in the Bible In. I think you had to take it from the Greek, translate it into the Latin and then from the Latin back into the English. Right, you needed to, from your high school understanding, use that to pass this exam to get into Harvard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's insane. Actually, andrew goes through in his book and he lists like five questions, five of the primary questions that were in the original Harvard exam, and one of them was a math problem. I was like I don't even understand.
Speaker 1:Where do I start? I need an engineer to get this question.
Speaker 3:This wasn't to graduate, this was to get to enter.
Speaker 3:Yes, but, yeah, they had massive there. This wasn't to graduate, this was to get to enter yes, but yeah, they had massive. There were massive sections of like the Aeneid that they had to translate from the original. They had to. I mean, some of the questions were just mind-blowingly difficult, but it really did make me think OK, wow, not only has the quality of the education itself changed, but a question that you and I have talked about, that I realized when I was in.
Speaker 3:I went to a teacher's college, even though I'm a journalist who's cheap and had a low GPA, kevin, what I know I know In high school, but it was interesting because I went there and I was like I got to see what kind of teachers were being trained and then, as we had kids, I was like, babe, I think we could do better than that, because this pivotal question I think this is where it all comes back to the student will become like the teacher, and I was, as many people do, asking that question do I want my kids to become like these teachers? Yeah, and you don't. The answer is no and the answer is no, yeah, kevin. I wonder if you would just give us kind of a quick recap of where we've been for people who maybe missed some of the earlier episodes, kind of where we're at and where we're going.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we're talking about Christian education. We're trying to take a stance in this first season of the podcast to say public school is just not even an option. Right, if you are Christian parents and you're saying I want to educate my children as the Lord has instructed, then you are to give them the paideia and new theses of the Lord, you are to give them a robust Christian education. So it's really helpful, especially with a podcast like this, before we set out any methods or anything that were agreed on the principles what are my left and right limits? How can I say, yes, I am educating my children in a Christian way or I'm not? Is there a way of you know tightly defining these boundaries so that I can at least understand, moving forward, what my options are?
Speaker 1:So we started with the first principle a Christian education must pour a Christian foundation. Then we moved on to show that it imparts a distinctly Christian lens. Again, not just the particulars, not particular answers to particular questions, but it gives you a robust, thorough lens through which you see all of the particulars. That's what a Christian should be receiving as they grow up. Number three Christian education pursues a Christian scope. And then, number four Christian education appeals to a Christian standard. So that's what we covered last time For today's discussion. I simply want to set it in front of our eyes just to make it really clear, and then we can kind of work our way back up to it. But principle five is this Christian education must supply Christian teachers. Christian education must supply Christian teachers.
Speaker 1:And for some of us hearing that for the first time, that might rub us the wrong way, especially if you grew up in public school. Right, you might say, well, yeah, I knew, you know, miss Susie, she was a Christian. But I mean all the other 73 teachers that I ever had, they were not. Or even if they were, I didn't know it because they were hiding it, whatever it is. So some people might not like to hear this, but this is a reality of Christian education.
Speaker 1:The reality is the education itself. The nature of education, because it is one aspect of discipleship, means that this education is going to be fundamentally mimetic. So that's coming from the Greek word, which means like imitation, right? So when a child sees the teacher standing up in front of them teaching with some kind of authority, they want to be like that person. We're not just talking about the content of what they teach, but they see everything that they do, kind of like I mentioned, in the cold open. They see everything that they do and they say you know what that person says, it's okay, and they are in a role of authority in my life and so I actually want to be like them because they're saying it's good.
Speaker 3:Well, it's really interesting, kevin, you have two things here that are often missed in our culture. Number one is the imitation right that we are just naturally that way. That's how we are. You know, paul will say this all the time. You know, imitate me as I imitate Christ, as I imitate Christ yeah. Because he's understanding that discipleship is imitative. But the other interesting thing here that again often missed, particularly in discussions like lady pastor conversations people will say well, she's not holding authority, she's just teaching.
Speaker 1:As if you could separate the two Right Like it's meaningless, and the reality is.
Speaker 3:You know, think about what it was said about Jesus he taught as one with authority, meaning there's something about the teaching role that's authoritative. And the other thing I would say about this is just kind of anecdotal. But when I started speaking from the pulpit at Refuge Church so reading scripture, giving when a part of the elder process you probably have had the same thing and then giving sermons, it's amazing how people equate it. Well, he's teaching, so he has authority. Now it shifts their view. Yeah, even when I was a pastor and I hadn't preached a sermon yet, people saw you differently. So this idea that teaching is a form of authority, I think is really important.
Speaker 1:And this goes back to that Luke 6 40 quote where we see that a disciple is not above his teacher but everyone, when he is fully trained, will be like his teacher Interesting. So it's fundamental to the teaching task and the nature of authority that when you see somebody up there teaching, it's not just the words that are coming out of like past their lips, it's actually, it's everything. It's how they dress, it's how they dress, it's how they present themselves, it's the kind of behavior that they say is or is not right. All of that is important because the student is going to look at that teacher and say you know what that's good. Even if we're not talking about them making some kind of intentional you know decision walking away from that teacher in that class. They will still see that and say you know decision walking away from that teacher in that class. They will still see that and say you know what that is actually within the bounds of being acceptable.
Speaker 1:This is where this is what people miss right? It's six hours a day, five days a week, 170 days a year. You don't just forget that as if it had no impact on you, even the little subtle things that you notice and you say well, you know he cracked that kind of joke. Well, that's okay for me to do at home, that's okay for me to do with my buddies, that's okay for me to do at church. That's actually a big deal. It's not just the fact that he's teaching evolution.
Speaker 3:It seems like one of the things you kind of have to debunk in all this is that there's again it could be like the myth of neutrality, but neutrality is specifically about the character of the teacher. So it sounds like what you're saying is that the character, the piety of the teacher actually matters.
Speaker 1:Well, everything, really everything, does so again, it's going to be the words that come out of their mouth, but it's how you dress. I mean, really, that seems like a fairly innocuous thing, but you look at it and you say, well, that is important because it speaks to how I am recommending that my student dresses. It's how I'm recommending that they carry themselves.
Speaker 3:Like if Headmaster Love came in and he had a septum piercing and pink hair. And my flip-flops and my tank top that would be a different message than you know a blazer and a nice. You know clean haircut, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it actually matters right, cause we're talking about habit formation as well. This is one thing that people try to uh separate and you can't. You can't separate them. But there's the intellectual side and the moral side of education. It's not like you can go to your school and your math teacher teaches two plus two equals four and nothing else. You know. Just just ignore everything else that he does. That's not how it works. You actually have moral formation. That's happening. You have habit formation in addition to your two plus two equals four and how you got there and your justification for why all of that. You actually have like a whole soul person standing in front of you that you are going to see everything that they do. Again, a little joke that they crack and you say I'm going to say that to my friends. That was kind of funny, even if I just kind of laughed at it. Now I know that's okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really interesting. Just kind of laughed at it. Now I know that's okay. Yeah, really interesting. Kevin, one of the other, I guess, things we're going to get into, this concept of capturing the next generation of children.
Speaker 1:Walk me through it. Yeah, so this is Marxism 101, right, where they said we're going to do that long, slow march through the institutions. Why, though? Why is this so fundamental? Why did they see that as the play? Like you open up their playbook and there's one play.
Speaker 1:We're just going to run this over and over and over again. We're going to take the institution, and because we have the institution, what we're saying by that is that we have the teachers, because we're going to be hiring the teachers, right, we're going to put them in the seats, and these students are going to look at them and say I want to be like that. So, if you wanted to this. This is where I think the the Marxists um and this is like problem number five, answering principle number five uh, the Marxists actually get this better than many Christians do. What I mean by that is not that they're doing it right. I just mean that they understand the fundamental nature of this teaching, this teacher and disciple role. They understand the connection between the two far better than a lot of Christians do, because they say oh, if I want the next generation, let's just replace the teachers.
Speaker 3:Well, it's so interesting too. I mean this. Obviously, if you're a credo Baptist, as you are, this will be a little spicy, but I thought it was at least a good point. I think it was Ben Merkel gave a talk and he's like I hope you're post-mill and pedo Baptist because the left is, because they are, and the whole point was he was like they believe that the future is controlled by the children. They're going after the children and they have in their mind a positive vision for the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they said, or he said the future and the children belong to them. Yes, that's what they believe.
Speaker 3:So again, whether you're pedo-crito, that's not really the point, but do you view children as that important generationally would be the question, because they do. And then the way that you respond in education, whether it's a really robust homeschool or Christian classical school, I think really it's like the rubber on the road of what you actually believe. How important do you think your kids are?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how important do you think your kids are? What do you understand about the actual nature of education itself? I mean, let's be very clear. We are not recommending that you be a Marxist. That's not the counterplay, right. We're just saying that you should recognize the very thing that they actually truly see, which is this relationship between the teacher and the student, because what they are doing is actually the exact opposite of what we want to do. We want to have Christians in the seat. I'm not saying that we want that. Even in public school. We're saying, hey, that's obviously not a road for us that we can go down right now. So you have a few different options, but it's not that because you don't have Christians in the seat and if you are a Christian family you need Christians in the seat you are to give your children the paideia and euthysia of the Lord.
Speaker 1:I just remember back in high school, as I was preparing for this episode, most teachers and again, this is California high school, right Most teachers for the most part were kind of just keeping their head down and trying to teach their two plus two equals four for the most part, but there were those few and you probably know exactly what I'm talking about. There were those few vocal ones, right, that just said the most absurd things and you kind of just, like you know, chuckled nervously in the back and you're just oh, there she goes again and there he goes again. But they were always presenting themselves as the more intellectual, the cool kids, the avant-garde of this cultural battle, and everyone else are just the peons. They're just the other people who are just ignorant and don't understand, and those backwards Christians, all of that. That's what we're up against.
Speaker 1:That's how they view the parents, that's how they treat the role of the parents oftentimes in those environments. And so we have to recognize that our children see that Our children are running with that oftentimes. I mean just again, very practically. A child who grows up in that six hours a day, 170 days a year for 12 years, by multiple different teachers too it's not just one that does that. Imagine seeing that in a real role of authority, over and over and, over and over again. It really is no wonder that those children grow up. They say you're right, my mom and dad were dumb, those rules were dumb. I'm going to rebel against that and I'm going to trust this counselor who's telling me that I should be a man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, even we talked about that Was that episode one with the teacher in Lehigh?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So so down the road, right, I mean not too far from us but I mean, it's like you have a teacher who is, I mean, directly encouraging students to violate the fifth commandment.
Speaker 1:Your, your, your parents are dumber than you. I'll tell you that right now. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But this is thinking through education, and so much of their purpose is to, um, you know, shatter the relationship between parents and children, shatter the loyalty and they do and they do like very well, because, like you said, if you're around that all day and all you hear is your parents are idiots and we're the ones who are really. Look, and it's it's combined with like look how special you are, though, yeah, yeah, your parents are just playing into your pride is playing into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Again, kids are. Kids are so susceptible to this. Think of you know little Sally. She's seven years old, she goes to her public school. She's so excited for first grade, Right and, and her teacher is saying these things to her that she otherwise doesn't. She's not equipped to push back against that as a little seven-year-old first grader. No, she's not like. It's not fair to her. It's not fair to the parents. Again, don't get me worked up. It's disgusting. It really is disgusting, because the parents are trusting that institution and those teachers to actually shape them, form them, help them in the right direction, and they're oftentimes doing the exact opposite. They're actually teaching them to give the proverbial middle finger to their parents. It's not okay.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, it's incredible, and so I guess, as parents like, walk me through some of the things that we need to do to make sure that doesn't happen, because if you knew that was going to happen, you should have a plan before that, ideally, Ideally, you had a plan before that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, as I've thought about this, this role and task of parenting, quite a bit, just, I have my own kids, we have the school, we have the church I've been thinking about it a lot. I think the very first duty that we have and it goes back to kind of the mission right, we talked about this last time or the time before to protect and equip. Protect first, protect and equip okay, Protect means you could have them out tomorrow, Like that's great, that's wonderful. That is the parent's first duty, I think, is you have to build a hedge. You have to build a hedge around that garden right where your children are safe to play.
Speaker 3:Can I ask you one of the complaints about both homeschool and, you know, classical Christian school that I always hear? You know you're just going to coddle your kids, you're just going to have them insulated. They're not going to be prepared to handle the world. But there is a difference between you know, like I think, even a smartphone usage. You know as the kids get older. Yeah, maybe there's a path with a gab phone or whatever to like teach them how to use it properly, and you have safeguards and you have rails, uh, but like most studies have shown, like an eight-year-old can't handle it. They just straight up cannot handle it. Yeah, so you know, at certain ages it's like okay, at eight or twelve, I'm not just handing my kid a smartphone unfettered access.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good luck, buddy, no um so that's a hedge. By not doing that, you're getting that's right. Building that, so that's a hedge.
Speaker 3:by not doing that, You're getting, you're building that hedge. So there's this charge of like overprotection, I guess. How would you? Are you even concerned about that?
Speaker 1:Uh, first and foremost, no Like, like on a principle. If if someone was like just uh, in a rhetorical way, try to push me in that corner, I would say I'm fine existing in that corner, that's okay. But realistically, my first pushback would be there's always going to be trade-offs, there's always going to be strengths and weaknesses of a position. There's always going to be good and bad. That comes with it. So I think that when you are weighing the options and you're saying, for example, go back, I think that's probably a really helpful and useful illustration. Think about social media. Think about social media for a little eight-year-old girl and how that just ruins her, just wrecks her life. Like, like, really like They've tied it to Depression. She's sad. Mental health issues.
Speaker 3:Oh, totally Right, lack of social skills?
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause she got a smartphone when she was eight years old and she got onto TikTok and wanted to start doing the videos too and trying to make a name for herself.
Speaker 3:Which is funny because they're like the culture will say you need to get your kids on social media so they can learn how to use it. And then they charge homeschoolers with like you're antisocial and you're like, yeah, but they're healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, look at the fruit of your choices, right, which actually is a really important thing to look at, and which kind of what I'm saying? Uh, strengths and weaknesses. There's going to be a trade-off. So let's say, I mean, let's just take the classic argument, right, my children, I well, I want them. If there's no Christians in the public school, then how are all those other kids are going to get saved, like my kids in a way, are missionaries there, like that's how I view it, okay, that's. I mean, that is literally one option that you could take. However, it's going to come with trade-offs. The question, at the end of the day, is who is being evangelized, who is being catechized in a certain image, in a certain way? Is it the kid you know? Let's say there's a hundred kids, is it the 99 that are getting catechized by your one kid, or is it your one kid getting catechized by the 99? Yeah, let's be honest.
Speaker 3:The other thing that I always found. So I, you know, grew up in Baptist churches, went to the SBC seminary, all that. So I would just encourage especially people in the Baptist camp, be thinking through stuff like this. Or Baptist brothers, you say things like that I'm sending my kids to be a missionary in eighth grade, sixth grade, fourth grade, to the public school. But by your theology you don't believe your children are yet Christian. So would you send an unbeliever by that theology? Would you send somebody you weren't sure or didn't think was a Christian to be a missionary?
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah. So let's blow up that illustration, make it really big so that we can all see Someone just became a Christian. They're 29 years old, right? Just became a Christian, be a pastor, which is what you're doing. And you say, okay, cool, let's baptize you on Sunday. And he's amped right and he says you know what? I want to be a pastor, I want to be a missionary. I have heard the word of God and I want to make sure everyone else hears it, and I know that this tribe in Africa hasn't been reached yet. I want to be there, I want to be the one. Would you send him? No, not next week, not after a period of intense training.
Speaker 1:Actually, we're warned against this in the Bible that a young man, a man who is new to the faith, really a recent convert, should not become a pastor. Well, why? Because he might get puffed up with pride should not become a pastor. Well, why? Because he might get puffed up with pride. He might fall to the snare of the devil Again. You should not take somebody who is not seasoned and equipped and thrown into a vicious role. I mean, you know this as well as I do. There are attacks from every single side. As a pastor. That is a very real thing. Same thing for a Christian, though in maybe a different way. Someone who is a new Christian is going to thing for a Christian, though in a in maybe a a different way. Someone who is a new Christian is going to be attacked for the stand that they're going to make on their faith.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, satan, satan wants them to, to you know, dip their toe in the water or to be baptized. Right To actually full submersion sprinkling. Whatever you're doing, you know, um, they are going to do that and they're immediately going to be attacked for it. And so, in in this similar situation, you are throwing your children into the lion's den, you are putting your children in an environment where they're going to be attacked on every single side, with the one comfort Well, maybe they'll save somebody else, right? Gain the whole world, lose your soul. That's, that's kind of what you're dealing with. Is the very real. Just just look at the numbers, like, like. We have quantitative data on this, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I remember reading uh, I think it was John Taylor Gatto. You know some of his work against like public school, I think he was. He was multi-time teacher of the year or whatever, and he's like public school is bad. But it was interesting because he said like when you had he said anytime I had two students, I had a good student and a bad student. He said it was almost always without fail the bad student would make the good student bad and not vice versa. He would always drag the better student down, and so it gets into this. We have to apply principles like 1 Corinthians 15, bad company ruins good morals.
Speaker 1:We have to apply it's a truism Because we've seen it over and over again.
Speaker 3:This is nothing new, so I always ask myself you look at your kid's friends, even in a totally Christian environment, and you say, would I want my kid to become like that person? Hmm, that's an interesting. I should have to think through that. Yeah, with classrooms it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is where it all comes back to really that question of is it being overprotective? Then, to think through those issues, I would argue that it's absolutely not being overprotective. You actually have a duty to be protective in the first place, right? God gives you these talents and what are you going to do with them? I'm just going to bury it in the ground. You know what? Let's just let it sit. Let's just not do anything with it. You actually have a duty to do two things. You should set up a hedge around it, but you should let it grow. You should let it grow with protection as well. That's what the man who had the 10 talents was able to do. He actually made it increase because it didn't get spoiled, it didn't get stolen, it didn't get right. I mean, he actually put it to work.
Speaker 3:I would charge fathers I do all the time, but Genesis 2.15,. Your primary task as a man is to work and to keep, to protect and to cultivate. So to your point, fathers, you have this responsibility to set barriers. Gardens in that period would have had walls around them and gates, and you need to be the gate and the wall around your children, right, so there's protection. What's the point of protection that you have a fruitful garden within? So you're also protecting so that you can. This is the cultivation part. Yeah, so you know your kids, your wife, your family, your household can be a really fruitful.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. You're you're putting the protection on the outside so that the inside can actually grow up and be fruitful. That's correct, right. So you have your trees in there. You have your beautiful fruit trees, because even if you did have really fruitful people.
Speaker 3:But one of the analogies, the Psalms will talk about this. But if the walls are broken down, then the wild animals ravage the trees, then all the pests and insects and all that they destroy the fruit. And so, yeah, walls plus cultivation, and just saying to fathers like that is your responsibility. Your main responsibility is not, hey, make sure that they taste all forms of evil, make sure they're exposed to every kind of evil. In fact, in 1 John we're told be babes in evil. Yeah, you should have nothing to do, don't know how to do that. Yeah, there, you should have nothing to do, don't know how to do that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's that. There's also that famous illustration. Right, this is used. I've heard this used in relationship to understanding the gospel. They compare it to you know, how is a counterfeiter or somebody who is trained to spot counterfeit dollar bills, how are they trained? Do they spend all of their time touching and viewing all the different forms of like counterfeit currency? Well, no, they. They spend like 99% of their time looking at the real thing, touching the real thing, so that when they see something that is a counterfeit or they, they feel, yeah, they know, even if they don't know exactly what is wrong, they know that something is wrong because they can just tell this is this, there is something wrong with the texture, there's something wrong with the look of this ink and whatever. It is right.
Speaker 1:So, if you look at that illustration and you apply that to what we're doing with our children, we are trying to raise them up in the paideia and euthysia of the Lord. We are trying to, by giving them Christian teachers, we're trying to form them into a certain image so that, yes, again, after the period of training like I'm with you and with some measured practice leading up to that point, they could actually fulfill their duty as Christians, to tear down every lofty opinion that is raised against the knowledge of God. That's what we have, right? That's what we are instructed to do. Yes, you are supposed to give a defense, a reason for the hope that is in you, right, we have that in 2 Peter 3, or 1 Peter 3.15, sorry. And then in 2 Corinthians, we are told that we are supposed to tear down those lofty opinions raised against the knowledge of God.
Speaker 1:Well, how do you do that? You don't do that just by intuiting what you are supposed to say. You don't do that just by intuiting what you are supposed to say. You don't do that just by a wing and a prayer. You don't do that by just throwing yourself to the wolves and seeing how it goes. You know, as a nice little lamb. That's not how it works. You actually should be battle-hardened, go through this period of formative training so that, when you actually are in those environments as a man and as a woman, you are equipped, finally equipped to stand your ground on the word of God, with the Holy Spirit energizing you, giving you the wisdom, the words to say in those moments. But it doesn't just happen magically and it doesn't happen overnight. It takes, especially for children who are growing up in maturity. It takes time to be seasoned in those things so that you can be even more robust instead of losing your way because you weren't trained.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good point. I don't know if you want to get into some of the FAQs. Yeah, well, one of the questions I have would be okay. Are we saying that our Christian teachers have to be perfect?
Speaker 1:Which is a natural question, right? So if we're saying that you have to have Christian teachers, does that mean that we're saying each one has to be Jesus Christ? Well, no, we are never going to find teachers.
Speaker 1:Okay, we still haven't found a teacher yet. No, realistically right, we are all sinful imitations, even as Paul is saying imitate me as I imitate Christ. He himself was not perfect. So what we're trying to do is not so much say that it's so black and white. It really is more of a gradation. You're going to have some Christians who are more mature in their faith as well. Right, we have to recognize that. But I will say and this is very true, I will say that in principle, you still need to have Christian teachers.
Speaker 1:So again, not perfection, but at least those teachers are all pointing in the same direction. We're not trying to make us all clones, we're not trying to make all of the teachers unable to express their individuality as God has gifted them, but we are all pointed in that same direction, which is we are trying to be renewed in our minds right, this is Romans 12, that we might know what is good and acceptable and perfect. And we are trying to model that behavior for our students as well. And we're not going to do it perfectly. We all mess up, we all sin, we all repent and we move forward and we have forgiveness through Jesus Christ, but in a principled way we are saying we will not hire people who are not Christians.
Speaker 1:I cannot point this is how I talk about it with my teachers and just as a board, how we've kind of talked about it I need to be able to point to any of my teachers and say student, be like him, student, be like her. If I can't say that and I'm not saying every little jot and tittle, we don't do it perfectly but if we can say in a general way, yes, you should respect him and be like him. If I can't say that, don't hire him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting. You know, Pastor Dan has said this a lot about. You know, as we've talked about elder process, when I was coming on board, it was really convicting because he was saying, like, when we have elders and pastors in the church, we're pointing these men and their families and we're saying hey to our people, hey, be like these guys, and you're like, wow, okay, that's a really tall order. Let me ask you a similar question about peers and the students in the school. They obviously can't have sin or be flawed in any way. No, not at all. That is black and white. No, of course, like they have sin too. So how do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it kind of goes back to what you had mentioned before with the bad company ruins good morals. As a school, we are trying to protect the other students, because we recognize that friends teach too. So when we're saying you have to have Christian teachers, okay, yep, check, cool. But what about the students? What about their peers in each of the classrooms? Well, you have to recognize that they are going to have a leavening influence within the school, and so we do need to be careful about the students that we let into the school, making sure that you have a leavening influence within the school, and so we do need to be careful about the students that we let into the school, making sure that you have a rigorous application and vetting process. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1:So this is from Proverbs 12, 26. One who is righteous is a guide to his neighbor, but the way of the wicked leads them astray. You are going to have people around you and, again, just by the imitative nature of who we are as human beings, we're made in the image of God. We are called to be like God. In a similar way, when we look at roles of authority, we are trying to be like them. But you have friends too, like friends on the lateral side. So the other one was more like vertical On the lateral side. You're looking horizontally to your left and to your right and you are going to be dragged down.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting too, because I remember this going through John Owen on temptation and sin and he said you know, it's interesting when you look at scripture and you think of like a wicked friend or a bad friend as a temptation. But Owen said he said wherever you look in scripture there's one command given when you face temptation, run. And I thought that was really interesting. There's never a command like well, just play with it, just play with it.
Speaker 1:Just, yeah, be gentle with it. No, no, no, tame it, no, turn the other way, just learn how to master it. It's literally like flee, yeah, flee. Temptation Run from temptation, cut off the hand.
Speaker 3:If that's the thing that's causing you to sin cut it off, Pray that you know you wouldn't enter into temptation, so all these things. So it really has made me think with parents. Well, if we're good fathers, like the father is to us, then we ought to be helping our kids flee from temptation, Not saying like, oh, you have a bad friend, Well why don't you guys spend time together? No, I mean, it would have a very direct conversation about, like this is not a good influence.
Speaker 1:And it goes both ways right, where you say, son, be careful about this boy, I can tell that he's dragging you down. And you can also say, hey, recognize your influence on your friends and be careful about that, because you again, by encouraging them in their disobedience or their laziness or whatever it is, you're actually making them worse too. You should be you, we should be having that iron sharpens iron relationship, where you actually help build them up and not pull them down, not detract from their education or their responsibilities at home. All of that, you should be a supportive friend. But that's really the key point. Yeah, so what about their peers? We have to recognize that friends teach too, so be careful about their friend group.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's really helpful, kevin. I guess just sort of as we wrap up this discussion, kind of some things to hang our hat on with. You know, education teachers influences that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the big thing that we need to recognize is when we're looking at who is going to be educating our children, and so this goes for homeschooling right, setting a good example at home, mom and dad. This goes for the private school who are your teachers going to be for your students, your children? We have to think through who is going to be teaching my children about the fundamental questions of life, like where did we come from? What makes life meaningful? What are my left and right boundaries for what is acceptable, good and righteous behavior? Where am I going after I die?
Speaker 1:These are fundamental questions. These are not little things. They're not something that we can simply wave our hand at. So when we think about who are going to be teaching our children, we must be aligned. We have to be aligned on the most fundamental things, or else we're going to be rowing in opposite directions, like, if you think about another way that this has been explained, like the true, good and beautiful. We're trying to help our students, our children, pursue the true and the good and the beautiful. But if you have a teacher who says the evolution is true, okay, and that it's okay to disrespect your parents, okay. Well, now we have that and they're just utilitarian in their view of beauty. Well, like that's actually not helpful. We are actually rowing in different directions.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think too like when you understand like the same thing we'd say about worship and education, but that what it's fundamentally doing is training our affections. It's teaching us to love things and hate other things. And so you would ask the question like, well, what does the teacher love? Yeah, what are their affections trained toward? What are they aimed at? Is it the good, true and beautiful?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they're passing that along. Education if you were to boil it down again, there's so many ways that you can kind of think through what is education. But education is the cultivation and the shaping of loves. So when you're thinking about a teacher, a teacher is going to model that. What do they love? Because that is going to light a fire for my kids in their hearts, right, Do they fan the flame of vanity? Do they fan the flame of intellectual discourse? Do they fan the flame of vanity? Do they fan the flame of intellectual discourse? Do they fan the flame of fearing God and keeping his commandments? Because that is what they are passing on to the kids and that's not something you can really change, not something you can really fake. It's going to just come out in your actions and in your behavior and your words. All of that in your behavior, in your words, all of that. But fundamentally, what we are trying to do for our children is we are trying to light that fire, trying to shape the loves, because we are trying to pass the torch right. Ultimately, one day we are going to be dead and gone right. We are going to be passing the torch to our children, who we are praying for and helping them do this, but they are going to be the ones who are to stand on their own two feet and if, when we are out of the picture, they do not love the things that they need to love, if they do not love God, if they do not love the true, good and beautiful, we ultimately have failed in a way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's so important and I think too this topic because I thought more about it. If you're a Christian, send your children to be educated by Christians, whether that's mom and dad, whether that's, you know, in our situation, people that we've appointed by the church Kevin being a pastor here to facilitate that and then teachers under but really, this issue of they're going to become like their teachers, yeah, don't send them to pagans.
Speaker 1:Unless you want pagans.
Speaker 3:Which, as a Christian, you can't want that. If that was true, you need to repent.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I think that's just really helpful in crystallizing why we educate the way that we do and why we're concerned about who the teachers are Yep, the way that we do and why we're concerned about who the teachers are Yep, kevin, I want to close things down. We are going to encourage people to check out the St Brendan's Patreon. A lot of fresh content from you, a lot of exclusive content. It's a place for people to engage for as little as $5 a month. So check that out. There'll be a link in the show notes for that. What have you guys kind of done recently?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the big thing that we did is we just released our first Captain's Log episode. So if you're listening to this, maybe it's a few weeks out at this point, but the first Captain's Log episode is actually a backlog of some episodes that Pastor Sauvé and I recorded back before the school even started, right, so we're talking like May June of 2021.
Speaker 3:Good conversations.
Speaker 1:Oh, wonderful conversations, right, it was actually really encouraging to go back and listen to them. But we are going to. We'll be posting those every two weeks or so. This is meant to give more of the 30,000-foot view on how our school came to be. What are we focusing on? You know why the name St Brendan's right Trying to answer that in the first one but also what are the main influences that come into the school. You know the forms, model, the history cycle, all of that kind of stuff. We explain in more detail so you can find that on Patreon. I think we have nine episodes or so, so expect like a good first series and then we'll keep tacking on with the captain's log after that Perfect.
Speaker 3:Well, we encourage people to check that out Again. Follow the link in the show notes. You can sign up on Patreon today. Thanks for joining us for this episode and we'll catch you in the next one.