St. Brendan's Podcast
The St. Brendan's Podcast exists to equip you with rigorous, practicable, and affordable Christian education for many generations to come.
St. Brendan's Podcast
Rejecting Hypocrisy: Why Christian Education Must Maintain a Higher Purpose
Can a Christian education thrive without aiming at our ultimate Christian purpose?
Or, as a practical consideration that pushes the antithesis more concretely, is it possible for a non-Christian to provide their child with a complete Christian education? Here, as everywhere, definitions matter.
As we apply the Parable of the Two Sons to our own day, we find that for Christian education to reach full-flower, it must grow out of the soil of families that are eating, breathing, sleeping, living, working, and educating to the glory of God.
No ulterior motive will suffice. No alternative could take its place.
This means we've landed on our final principle for this first season. And in reality, no discussion about Christian education would be complete without it.
Principle #7: Christian education must maintain a Christian purpose.
P.S. Did we miss you at the 2024 NCP Conference? Feeling a little FOMO? Don't worry–we have you covered. Simply follow this link over to our St. Brendan's Patreon channel for the link to all the conference talks. We want you to be equipped to build Christian boroughs in your place with your people.
In chapter 21 of Matthew's Gospel, jesus tells us the familiar parable of the two sons when the father instructs them to go work out in the vineyard, one says no but later goes to work, while the other says yes then refuses to follow through. Who, jesus asks, was the one who did the will of his father? Ultimately, it was the son who was disobedient at first but followed through at last. Who then was to be commended? The one who did as his father had asked? It's no secret that we find these two sons in plain view as we consider Christian education. Christians have been commanded to give their children the paideia and euthysia of the Lord. The good captain has given his orders so we are to salute and faithfully discharge our duties. Yet many Christians have played the part of the disobedient son, that one who said yes, sir, I go, but then disobeyed. Maybe they got distracted along the way. Maybe they started to count the cost and got some buyer's regret. Either way, maybe they started to count the costs and got some buyer's regret. Either way, these Christian parents received their children as a gift from God, with all its attendant duties, and said yes up front, but then disobeyed one of the key commands that God gives for these children.
Speaker 1:The children of Christians are owed a robust and thorough Christian education. It is their familial right. In fact, this education is pivotal to the overall plan for furthering the kingdom of God. So after saying yes, yes, what happened For most? They simply got played by the government handout as the great messiah it claimed to be. The government swooped in and saved the parents from this heavy burden. In exchange, the parents just had to give up control of one little thing their child's education. Sure it would be free if by free you mean taxation at gunpoint, and sure it would be easy if by easy you mean you simply had to let go of the steering wheel. In so doing, many of these parents have watched a tragedy unfold as their children walk away from the faith. They've stood aghast while their young sons castrated themselves and their daughters had their breasts surgically removed. What started as a seemingly innocuous assist from daddy government has metastasized into a full-blown assault against the kingdom of God. These Christian parents are losing their children more and more each day, sacrificed at Leviathan's altar.
Speaker 1:This is why we've been spending time this season dwelling on this key question what is a Christian education? This is nothing less than a call to parents to be faithful stewards over these wonderful gifts, to not be the kind of parents that say yes, yes, then neglect their duties. But in this strange hypocrisy between our words and our actions, we also have before us the other son, who says no up front, then ultimately does, as the father asked. Well, who would that be? Though we're stretching the story a bit, this would be the parent or parent who give their children a Christian education in many respects, though they themselves are not fully bought in. This is the parent who sends their kids to a robust Christian school, yet has no real care for Christ or kingdom. This is the parent who says no to obeying Christ themselves. They certainly don't believe it, yet, for one reason or another, knows that it is for their child's good to attend the school. In other words, we now have to consider this thorny question Is it possible to give a true Christian education if it's done for the wrong reasons? Yes, of course. We would say that it is better than the alternative. It is better to be the son who says no but then finally obeys. Yet we still have this new consideration Could you call that a Christian education in its fullest sense?
Speaker 1:Let's say the parents were not really Christians at all, but they knew the Christian school was much more rigorous than the local public schools. If their child was going to have a chance of getting into an Ivy League school and going pre-med, then they needed him to be in this Christian school. What if that was the real reason their child attended? Well, now we have this strange situation where you could say, at least from the hours of 8 am to 3 pm, monday through Friday, that these children are receiving principles, one through six that we've discussed so far In this school. They are pouring a Christian foundation, imparting a distinctly Christian lens, pursuing a Christian scope, appealing to a Christian standard, supplying Christian teachers and aiming at a Christian goal.
Speaker 1:Upon examination, you could say, at least in a formal sense, that they check all the boxes. So this must be where the conversation ends right. This must be all there is to a Christian education, but not so fast, while we're forced into the dilemma, and this would be way better than the alternative. It doesn't quite capture what is meant by a thorough Christian education. Christian education, just like any good works done before God, must be done to the glory of God. In other words, christian education must maintain a Christian purpose. Welcome to the St Brendan's Podcast, where we exist to equip you with rigorous, practicable and affordable Christian education for many generations to come.
Speaker 3:Well, welcome to this episode, Headmaster Pastor Kevin Love, joined by Eric Kahn and Kevin. We're in the middle of summer. What an amazing summer it's been. So far it's been wonderful. Conference was awesome Conference. We had the new Christendom Press Conference. That was an amazing experience.
Speaker 1:So many people came out. It was so fun.
Speaker 3:It was really cool. A lot of people wanted to talk about the school really cool.
Speaker 1:A lot of people want to talk about the school A lot. Yeah, I didn't even have the banner up or anything. I think we had talked about this. I was. I was in, uh, you know, full blown, full steam ahead trying to get through the school year. Um, well, you know, we had that awesome recitation night, had had a big party, had a big dinner and dessert and all of this kind of stuff, and then we had transcripts and all of that trying to wrap up the school. So my mind was not on the conference at that point, but, yeah, I got to have so many conversations with people at the conference talking about school. How do you guys land it in your specific area? Yeah, that's what I was so encouraged by. You have a lot of people across the country, many different states, trying to figure out how do we do this here with our people.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's the kind of stuff that gets me fired up, because we started this podcast so that we could help those people. Yes, that's the kind of stuff that gets me fired up, because we started this podcast so that we could help those people.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Of course it's going to help your homeschoolers and it's going to help you know, it does help people here locally in this Christian church, but also we want you guys to be able to do it too. That's the whole point of this. We don't want to just keep it to ourselves. We have this wonderful thing that we're holding in our hand and trying to say, hey, this could be yours. I want to help you figure out how to land it, and everyone has a very different background. You have different resources, you have different abilities, and it was just fun to kind of tease out how they might be able to land this in some form or fashion in their place.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, I was really encouraged by the number of people who really care about Christian education. They're listening to this podcast. Of course, we've talked about it on King's Hall as well, but really I think there's a great number of Christians who are awake to this issue. They know how important it is. And so it's actually an encouragement when you realize for a lot of people they're like we love the podcast, you're preaching to the choir and we're ready to take action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are our people. Those are our people.
Speaker 3:The other thing that really stood out from the conference to me in one of the talks was Dr Joe Rigney was talking about when he lived in Minneapolis and he said what you want to do to build a strong culture, a strong monoculture like, say, we have in Ogden, is you want to get the spheres of your life overlapping like a Venn diagram as much as possible so that that middle overlap portion is bigger, right.
Speaker 3:And so he said that when we lived in Minneapolis the church was way off in one part of the city and everybody would go to schools that were all 30 minutes in opposite directions or something like this. And he said what we found is we were not a close culture opposite directions or something like this. And he said what we found is we were not a close culture. And what you want is you want like a school like Logos, and you want the church community to have a lot of overlap and their sports and all those things too, so there's a lot of overlap. And then what you find is that you're really interconnected in love with the people in your community.
Speaker 1:The thing that stood out to me from that, that whole talk, was he put words to something that I have been thinking for a long time, but I maybe haven't been bold enough to say it. It was actually really helpful. He said that the school is the center of gravity.
Speaker 3:And that's exactly where I was going. The thing that really captured me was the school being a central part. And then it's funny you mentioned that about putting words to something I couldn't explain. So he's talking. I'm like, wait a minute, this is what we've done in Ogden. I didn't, I couldn't put it quite like he put it, and that's the. That's really the glory of a good communicator.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:They can say what you've known to be true. Without you couldn't describe it. But I look at our community and I said to my wife I said yeah, after that talk I was really blown away. I think the reason so many of us have such close community here in Ogden is that our Venn diagram is basically one circle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so much overlap when you think about, like pastors in the basement, my wife's upstairs, teaching my kids are upstairs we pretty much spend the majority of most days together and then with the other families in the same work, doing the same thing, aiming at the same thing. All the things that we're gonna talk about, you know, have talked about in, you know, principle number seven we'll talk about today for Christian education. But when you have a whole community and they all agree with that, they're all pushing in that same direction. And then you start to realize, like this very practical thing I asked Joe Rigney after we were back in the green room and Dan and I were asking him like is it really hard? You've had so many new people coming to Moscow, is it really hard to keep your culture? And he said no.
Speaker 3:I said oh, interesting, and I said why. And he goes well, the answer is probably actually yes, right, but when you build institutions like Lagos, it is such a weighty, has a gravitational force as an institution that because we've spent the time training up teachers and training up parents and students, that you can add quite a few people to that and culture is maintained. So as long as you have these cultural institutions and cultural engines that are really powerful. They have the horsepower and the capacity to carry that load, then I think you can do it. But again, his point was he said the church is very important. Don't get me wrong, but central to everything is logos.
Speaker 1:Well, and to clarify, he even said, with the illustration, like the body, he said that the church is the heart. The church supplies the life, blood, right, the bones, and the structure, whatnot. That might be the school, the institutions, all of that, but you also need the institutions, but you need the institutions. That's the point, right, and that actually is really important for our podcast as a whole, especially with this season. If you can recognize the weight that there is to paideia, if you can recognize the strength that comes with it, just how full orbs and comprehensive a true understanding of paideia is.
Speaker 1:This education it's not simply a, I learned. Two plus two equals four. This is the total enculturation of a human being to exist within that system at a high level. Right, it's what is our aim. What is this point on the mountain that we are hiking that I am encouraging all of my students towards so that they would look up to as well, even if they're on a? You know some people are higher up on the mountain, some people are lower down. You know one's a first grader, one's an eighth grader, but we're all pointed in that same direction, again, going back to that monoculture, because we have the same vision. That's where the school ends up being so important and becomes totally, becomes a center of gravity. You're there five days a week.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah, it's incredible. One of the other things I love about the school so we do podcast. My son, benjamin, has been my oldest, so be a senior this next year, but he's been helping write the King's hall and one of the things I found really valuable about the school is that we're doing, I guess, a lot of what you would call a lot of what people are calling like reformed resourcement, meaning going back to original sources in classical literature. So he's been a great help in that. But it's been interesting because we just launched a book, which is Zach Garris, on the reformers and their view of really sexual anthropology, biblical sexuality and patriarchy and stuff like this.
Speaker 3:So we launched this book and it's funny because, like you know, my son is reading through this and he's like, oh yeah, we've read this in Luther. Oh yeah, bollinger. Okay yeah, check. And it's funny to me because it's like that whole educational system and the type of literature you read and the type of literature God willing that's produced in the future. Again, we've said it time and again but it produces a different kind of man and woman it does like we're trying to give to our students is.
Speaker 1:I want my children and I want my students to grow up in an environment where they just assume that it's normal to read those guys when they just say, oh yeah, calvin, yeah, we read the Institute, or at least half of it, or so. We read that this last year during our Renaissance and Reformation year. Oh, you guys, don't do that. I just thought everyone read that. I mean, it was wonderful. Why do you not read that? You know, I want them to grow up with that kind of assumption where they don't even think about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really is a beautiful thing. One thing I do want to point out we have discount codes for patron people, our patron members, patreon members for the book and I want to encourage people to check that out Again. That's Honor your Fathers or Honor, excuse me, honor Thy Fathers, kevin, and this is found at newchristendompresscom slash fathers. But you can pick up the book, get 10% off with the patron-only discount. We're actually shipping those, benjamin has packed ship station. So we're putting the St Brendan students to work. There we go.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's what we ought.
Speaker 3:That's been really cool seeing people revitalize. I think one of the issues in our day is we have no solid sexual theology. Anthropology is really terrible.
Speaker 1:This is where.
Speaker 3:LGBT and all the rainbow flags and stuff we're talking about in education.
Speaker 1:It's on this issue, because we're weak in this area, it's easy to take advantage of us.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and so anyway, I think being able to capitalize here and win here is great. Check out that book Again. That's Zach Garris. Honor Thy Fathers. Kevin, just a quick review as we jump into this episode. So we've had six principles. Kevin, just a quick review as we jump into this episode. So we've had six principles. Yes, six principles, and this is sort of like a St Brennan's quiz, pop quiz. Here we are All from memory. What do you remember In Latin, Greek and then French, and then actually?
Speaker 1:let's start with French, because I definitely don't know that one. That'll be an easy one. Yeah, so we're talking about Christian education. We're taking a full season to dissect what Christian education is from a few different angles. Right, it's not something that's just so easily described on one principle. That wouldn't be fair to just how comprehensive Paideia truly is.
Speaker 1:So, number one we said that Christian education must pour a Christian foundation. Number two it must impart a distinctly Christian lens. Number three it must pursue a Christian scope. So again, that's using everything, every lawful means at our disposal, everything. Number four it must appeal to a Christian standard. Number five it must apply Christian teachers, and maybe that threw some of you guys off, but it's actually vitally important. And then, number six, what we talked about last time Christian education must aim at a Christian goal.
Speaker 1:We actually want to make our kids Christians, and I don't feel bad saying that. You monster Exactly. Well, you shouldn't feel bad saying it either parent, as you're listening to this, or teacher as you're listening to this, or teacher as you're listening to this that that's one of the fundamental aims that that Christ gave to us as well where to go out and make what Disciples. That that's what we're trying to do. I'm not going to feel bad about that. So when, when the purple, purple haired lady calls me, you know, right, right, wing, uh, fascist or something, because I want to do that, you just say, well, no.
Speaker 3:Well, it's crazy because they'll accuse you of indoctrination. Yeah, the one that I get a lot is like oh, you're indoctrinating people in Sharia law. Yeah. Okay, first of all, I think if we just all confess the truth that like education is indoctrination, like fundamentally it just is. The question is, which one right? We're Christians.
Speaker 1:It should be Christian.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no I love it.
Speaker 1:You need to just laugh them out of town when they do that, right? Well, I mean, honestly, it's a joke when someone is saying that to you. You know whether they believe it or not themselves is kind of irrelevant. You know that ultimately it is ridiculous and deserves some scorn. It deserves kind of laughing. It's not a serious idea.
Speaker 3:Well, this is actually Saul Alinsky, I think, got this right, but the godfather of the modern new left. But he said when you're trying to opinions, realities, truths, whatever he said, the best thing to do is ridicule what's ridiculous. And so he said one of the best tools is ridicule. And I would always say to people on our side no, this is ludicrous, you should actually be ridiculing what is ridiculous. I mean, when you think about what everything is, it's like you're putting on a purple wig and pretending to be a woman. That's ridiculous, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's easier to roll off your shoulder if you're just like I mean, that's a joke, right.
Speaker 3:Like you're kidding, right, and that's actually how you win You're like these people aren't serious people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're not right. So we are trying to make our children Christians, we're trying to make disciples of Jesus Christ, and I don last episode. Well, I already gave you the principle up front, so let's just hit it. Number seven is that Christian education must maintain a Christian purpose. It must maintain a Christian end. It must be for the glory of God. We're not doing this for vainglory. We're not doing this in our own pride, we're not doing this in our own strength. We are trying to glorify God. That's why we're doing all of this. That's why we're doing all of this.
Speaker 1:So the question that we have to think through, though, is why are we bringing this up? It's kind of a weird way to cap, really, a whole season talking about Christian education. It's a little bit more abstract in a way. You know when people say I just wanna glorify God. The next question is always how? What are you saying, right? It feels a little bit more abstract. How, what are you saying? Right? It feels a little bit more abstract, a little bit more lofty, a little bit more up in the clouds. This is why we're bringing it up. First off, there's a real danger, I think, just of doing this all for the wrong reasons Again for the vainglory, for the my kid's smarter than your kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my kid's smarter than your kid. My kid, like I, put in the cold open so they could get into that Ivy League school. Right, there are some legitimate ways that you could go wrong on this, but one of the bigger ones that I want to discuss today is actually the second danger. It's the danger of hypocrisy and undermining a good thing. The danger of hypocrisy and undermining a good thing.
Speaker 1:This really has kind of undergirded all of the principles that we've talked about so far, but I think it just comes to a head in this particular one, because this principle highlights how there could be this dichotomy, this division between home life and what happens at the school.
Speaker 1:If you're a homeschool, I mean, it's going to be a lot harder to do this right.
Speaker 1:But if you actually have a private school, brick and mortar school like ours, you can kind of hide in a way at home what happens at home compared with what happens at the school.
Speaker 1:So there's a very real way in which you could be doing principles number one through six and still not do this one and have it totally undercut everything that's going to happen at the school. And it really highlights for me, has highlighted for me, the fact that for this to be done well, to give a thorough and robust Christian education, a Christian paideia, to your kids, you have to have the school and the home life aligned. We can't have this false division, this false dichotomy between what happened at the school and what happens at the home, or else you're basically just institutionalizing hypocrisy. That's what you end up doing. But because paideia is all-encompassing, because it is so comprehensive, the kids are there. You cannot hide going to school, learning all these good things at school and then coming home and the parents just say well, that doesn't matter Whether they do so by their words or just by their actions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good question, because, you know, if we ever have issues with students, it's usually because, well, it could be a number of reasons, but one of the most common, I guess, is that you would have a parent who's like no, no, no, you don't have to do that.
Speaker 1:Like discipline, for example. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So my question as a parent, you're thinking through this. How would you like, what things would you do, I guess, to make sure that your home life does match that? It is? You're supporting what's happening there, you're getting on board maybe, maybe it's. You know you, you take headmaster kevin love's advice, uh, when he gives it to you. Uh, maybe it's. I would even think of some of the coaching like we get these coaching reports on, yeah, what do you call them?
Speaker 3:teacher reports on, like fridays, oh, yeah, the friday feedback yeah you know, I've always viewed those as really important parentally because, like, I get one from the teacher and if the teacher says, hey, we need to work on X, y, z, I make my kids read that to me. But if a parent, I look at that and I go, yeah, that's not important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, you're going to undermine it.
Speaker 3:So I think you're right, hypocrisy important.
Speaker 1:Can I recommend a few podcasts? No, I mean no seriously.
Speaker 1:I promise, I didn't pay Kevin to say that. Yeah. So I mean, you have Hard Men podcast, you have King's Hall, you have Bright Hearth all of these contributing to this conversation, this bigger conversation that's happening, where you're saying how can I be a robust and fruitful Christian in my particular vocation and domain? Okay, well, that's kind of the first question is you know what's the greatest commandment? Well, the greatest commandment is to love God first, yeah, and then you love your neighbor. Right, that's the second greatest.
Speaker 1:So, if you're recognizing this, it always comes back to us. We were talking about this offline before, but when you see something happening in your own home, when you see something happening with your own kids, what do you say? Oh, you, turd, it's all your fault, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. Well, no, I've allowed this, I'm the one who's allowed this to happen, I'm the one who encouraged this, enabled it, set a poor example myself, whatever it is. So how do you fix something like that? You pray to God and you repent, first and foremost, and you fix it in your own life and then, now that you have this log taken out of your own eye, you can address the speck in your brother's eye. So in the same way, right as we're thinking through. Well, one, you'd have to make sure that you are paired with partnering with a school that you are visionally aligned with, because if you're not, why are you sending your kids there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and probably like do your homework and have lots of conversations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should know all this ahead of time. Do you trust those people?
Speaker 3:Well, this is another thing too, like you could say the same about a church. But the reason you want to know and get to know the people, like a headmaster, for example, or the teachers, is just because it says Christian on the school. That actually doesn't tell you a whole lot.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it does not. You know what I mean. Does not guarantee almost anything.
Speaker 3:I mean it could say Christian Bible Church. That tells me almost nothing today.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's bad, yeah, yeah. So you want to make sure that you are, that you are both aligned. Uh, we had we had that other principal already that we've talked about committed a whole episode to that that the Christian school itself must supply Christian teachers, right. But if you're in the homeschool, then we've kind of already addressed this principal, but that was more aimed at, uh, brick and mortar schools, where they need to be supplying Christian teachers, right. So this is kind of the flip side of that principle we're using Like, well, the parents need to be fully bought in as well. Because, you're right, if we have experienced trouble at the school, it's typically with a parent who would say, yeah, but that doesn't really matter to me, and you're over here saying, but why are you here at this school? Why would you send your kids to this school if you're not fully bought in?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, well, and one thing I think that could be helpful, even a reason for this podcast. It's why we do what we do with Refuge Church. We try to front load what we're about because we're actually not trying to that's a good point Like hoodwink people in and then be like, oh you know, it's like a Mormon church where you'll find out later what we really believe.
Speaker 3:No, we want to front load that stuff so that if you don't agree with key fundamental things that we teach or do, then for everybody's sake it would be better if you found a different institution.
Speaker 1:Having the hard conversation up front to avoid all the pain and misery that would come from you not knowing this thing. We actually at this church, as pastors, as we will talk with people who are thinking about moving out here, we'll say you don't want to come out here because of these reasons, right? Because if you are even entertaining the idea of being like a cryptic feminist, it's probably not going to be. You're going to be very unhappy, you're probably not going to be happy here.
Speaker 3:You're going to be very unhappy. You're probably not going to be happy here. You're going to be very unhappy. Well, and the other thing is, just say it up front we did an episode on the King's Hall talking about Christian boroughs and one of the things that Tymon Klein and Cliff Humphrey brought up from American Reformer that was really good was they were like every strong fortress, town, borough.
Speaker 3:Think of it in any one of those three ways. But anyone that's any good. You have to have small, strong gates and you're basically what you're doing is you have to filter who comes in. Yeah, and you want, because you want to ensure a strong monoculture again where everybody's pushing in the same direction. So again, like for people who are thinking through starting a school, don't think of it like hey, we should kind of soft pedal the hardcore things we're really about. No, those are your gates, those are your walls. You want those to be strong and firm. You put them out in the open. And then the people who self-select and even want to come interview, come be a part of the process. Institutions and community goes so much better when everybody is rowing in the same direction.
Speaker 1:So you're saying you're not for open immigration. Negative.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:No, I think you bring up a good point, though, and we've even become more strict with school admissions for this very reason, where you're just saying we're just going to have the hard conversation up front. If it won't work out, that's okay. God bless you. Yeah, like I don't feel bad about that. I hope you don't feel bad about that. But if we don't really see eye to eye, that's okay. But it wouldn't be okay for you to be like that here at the school, like why would you want to? Why would I ever send my kids to a school that I just said? You know what I'm like seven out of 10 with them, that's a C. That's a low C. That's 70%. That's not that great. You want to make sure that you're visually aligned with the school.
Speaker 1:But yeah, there might be a lot of reasons where you would have a parent send their kids to a school like ours and I think that's important to talk about. We had some Roman Catholics down the road where I think they were trying to figure out would they send their two boys older boys to our school or the Roman Catholic school, cause public school is off the table, but they're they're I think they're trad Catholics, like they're, they're like pretty firm on that, but the Catholic school is fairly expensive. So, lo and behold, they're coming to our school and applying to our school and and and kind of begging me to be honest, uh, where he's like I don't think we can do the Roman Catholic thing, um, so we're willing to put up with you and just retrain when they get home, because I'd be doing that anyways with the public school, right, and it's like no, you can't do that.
Speaker 3:It's sort of like I had this discussion years ago. We started going to like a whole health doctor and it was interesting because he said most of the medical establishment, the ranges for health on your blood panels and stuff like that that they give you oh, they're horrible. They're like these are the acceptable range. And the doctor described it like this those acceptable ranges are like a D minus For like a dying patient these would be acceptable ranges.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like what if medicine focused on you know the preemptive steps you could take? Like your goal should be to be an A or as close to that as you possibly could be. And I think we would say the same thing about education. We're not like lowest common denominator, we're not like shooting for the bottom and saying, well, it's passing, that's not what we want. No, yeah, and I think there are a lot of models like that. But I think even for like what we would say of parents like you want to be putting your full weight behind it directionally, and I think like okay, Roman Catholic is a good example You're going to go through, especially thinking of my older boys. You're going to go through Calvin and Luther.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, they get to read some Aquinas though. So I mean that's kind of a win. There, right, they're going to learn some Latin, so that's a win. It's not church Latin, though, so that's kind of a loss, you know. That's right, well, we had another family. I get a phone call from some Messianic Jews. Really, yeah Same thing applying to the school. They listen to King's Home? I don't think so.
Speaker 3:Not yet.
Speaker 1:Do I have a podcast for you? Yeah, but we as a board we're just saying no, like that's. That wouldn't be okay. That was before we were a members only school by the way, just clarifying that we didn't change that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that hadn't changed yet. But. But you have these parents who might say you know what? The public schools are a mess, and I think your school would just be a lot better. Is that enough to call it a Christian education? Like, let's just take it to the extreme and let's say that you had a Mohammedan, that you had a Muslim, that you had a pagan, who just said you know what? I see what's happening in the public schools. I don't want my child getting gang raped. Okay, your school would be better. And if I'm willing to like bend the truth enough to say that we worship the same God, will you let my child in?
Speaker 3:You also haven't listened to the King Saul. You also haven't listened to the King Saul, jess, you wait. Glad the impaler is coming.
Speaker 1:Coming for you. But with that question, could you call that a Christian education if you had a full-blown pagan, let's say, who somehow got their kids into the school? Well, they go home and then their parents just undercut everything that they do, are undercutting the whole education that they're getting. So when we're considering Christian education in its fullest sense, we would consider it in a similar way to how we look at good works. Good works is obedience to the Lord, as he has commanded. But it's easy to focus on just doing the right things. This is why the Westminster Confession of Faith, when I was teaching on this chapter, the very last paragraph, I believe it is says that those good works also have to be done to the right end, to the glory of God. So, in its fullest sense, you could say that somebody obeyed the Lord, sure, but you wouldn't count it as a good work because they're unregenerate, because they don't bow the knee, they don't love the Lord. But sure, they might've stumbled into it once or twice, right, but you wouldn't say that that's a good work, because, in its fullest sense, a good work must be done to the right end, the glory of God. So, in a similar way, we're talking about the same thing with a Christian education, christian education.
Speaker 1:Principle number seven again is Christian education must maintain a Christian purpose. In other words, why are we really doing any of this? It takes a lot of our time. We're all making sacrifices, and that's families, that's teachers, that's the whole community really getting behind this. We are doing this ultimately to glorify God. Right, we have that verse. This is the one like everyone's familiar with 1 Corinthians 10, verse 31. So, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. We have clear commands for this that this isn't something that you can do for your own vainglory. This isn't something that you can do because you know this is an elite education and your kids are going to make more money down the road and that's kind of your retirement policy. You know you're having them go to this school. It has to be done to the glory of God or you're going to undercut everything that you do. It's actually not going to be that helpful.
Speaker 1:What we'll find also is that this differs from principle number six, where we were saying a Christian goal of making our children Christians, disciples of Jesus Christ, in the sense that number six is more near term and specific Number seven is more like that final cause, if we're to borrow Aristotelian language. It's that final cause, the ultimate reason, the ultimate end for which the thing is done. So it can't be for selfish gain, it can't be. We're not doing it, at least, to simply build up Christians in the abstract. But we are trying to glorify God by obeying God that his kingdom would come and that his will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. That is our aim, that is our aim, that is our final purpose, that is our final purpose in all of this. One last thing we did not get to talk about the third son in the parable. There's actually not a third son in the parable.
Speaker 1:I was like Confucius, you're giving me a funny look. There is a third son we should talk about, though you don't have to be one or the other. You don't have to be the son who said no and then obeyed. You don't have to be the son who said yes and then disobeyed.
Speaker 3:You could just say yes and obey, you could be the one who said, yes, sir, and then actually went and obeyed.
Speaker 1:right, that's right. In a way, there's an encouragement in that, where there doesn't have to be a hypocrisy. You were talking about this before kind of what are the recommendations then? Well, it's making sure that you're squared away, that you're aligned, first and foremost, right, and then finding a school that you can partner with or starting a school, whatever you need to do to make sure there actually is that visual alignment. But you want to have the home life and you want to have the school life aligned Again. You want to know exactly why you're doing this. And then you want to have the smell of the home that they come to in a way, be the same smell, the same aroma that they have at the school. You don't want to come home and say this is just wrong, this is just different. I actually don't like this at home. You want to have that kind of alignment.
Speaker 3:The other one. I think that should be an encouragement. If you are, it is sort of application. But if you have a, you know the said no but then obeyed later, I think a lot of people that that would apply to is maybe you started out with public school, maybe you started out not knowing any better, or could have been you know willful disobedience, but I think also the encouragement to people that it's also like if your kids are in school. It could be hard but you can still make the right transition.
Speaker 3:And for a lot of I mean in my generation especially this is what a lot of parents were figuring out. It's like we did a couple of years of public education. We realized that was not good. But the other encouragement would be don't just keep going down that bad path once you realize it is.
Speaker 1:Correct. Yeah, this is, there is no judgment here. I mean, we all came out of that. I went to public school, same here, right. So so there, there's no judgment there. But, but so there's no judgment there.
Speaker 1:But once you see this, as we do, once you see just how horrific that education is and, as the alternative, just how substantial and amazing a true, thorough, robust Christian education could be, you've got to get on that train. You have to get off the train that you're on and you need to get on that train Because if you do, yeah, there's grace for those who are humble and say, god, I was not pursuing that, but I also just didn't know my right hand from my left, I didn't realize what was happening and just how bad it was and the other options that are available. If you do that, you're forgiven and you move forward. Right, there is grace for those who are humble, even if the child is 16 years old. Right, you pull them, you pluck them right out of that public school and you say we're going to do things different and God will bless that. Right, god loves to bless that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, Kevin. I think a good place to end this episode just with some encouragement for people. Yeah, as I was.
Speaker 1:We're just encouragers.
Speaker 3:That is what we are.
Speaker 1:That's how you make the big bucks, yeah. So, as I've been thinking through this specifically with this episode, obviously this is my labor day after day. This is the environment that I work in, where we actually put some bread on the table. Through this environment, I think about this quite a bit.
Speaker 1:There are some hard times. There are hard times in running a school. There's hard times in homeschooling. There's hard times for the kids You're having to prepare, you have finals, you have recitation night, you have learning Greek and Latin. It's difficult, right, but if you can remember why we're doing all of this, if you can remember that we're doing this for God's glory, for his kingdom, that is what is going to get you through the hard times. That is what, as a teacher, is going to get you through that last dreaded trimester of the year, as spring has newly come and you're looking forward to summer. It's what's going to get you through the hours of homework and tutoring Again, because we are educating, we are starting schools, we're missing out on fat paychecks so that we can homeschool our kids. All of these things we are doing for God's glory and that, my friends, is worth every effort.
Speaker 3:I love it, kevin, just a little. This is like tour guide, but for what people can expect, we're going to wrap up the season with the show. One more quick plug If you haven't checked out Zach Garris' book Honor Thy Fathers, you can go to newchristendimpressedcom slash fathers and you can use the discount code We'll provide that in the Patreon show notes and you can get 10% off that book. Great book. Really recommend that to people. What can people kind of expect from here on out from us podcast wise?
Speaker 1:Hey, this is summertime, so I'm just turning it off. I think that's how it works, right? No, so we're going into off season now. Not sure exactly how long that will be, but next season we'll probably do something more particular to our forms model, and explaining that, explaining the trade-offs that you might have with homeschooling and your typical kind of private school model, we'll be explaining a lot of that. But until then, we're going to have a lot of behind the scenes conversations, more Q&A, more captain's log. I'll be wrapping up curriculum here in just a moment, and so we're hoping to get that out to you guys.
Speaker 1:If you wanted to purchase the same book list that we are working through ourselves, um, if you do that, by the way, don't forget, uh, you can have the added benefit of going on Patreon.
Speaker 1:And if you're, you know, you see, a certain book or a certain curriculum, uh, let let's say for Latin, uh, you have questions about how we're landing a certain principle in it, or how many days a week do we teach this?
Speaker 1:What do I need a little bit of extra help on with Latin, versus what could I totally just do as a homeschool mom that doesn't know Latin? All of those questions can be answered on Patreon itself. So if you just join one of those tiers, like the homeschooling tier for example, you can ask those questions and then I will do my best to answer them in a speedy fashion. If not me, though, maybe somebody else will answer it. That's kind of the intent for the Patreon, for those chat threads you guys can ask all of those questions and get real answers. So hopefully we'll have the curriculum out to you soon, but if not, stay tuned for other resources that I'm developing this summer that I hope will be a big, big help. Whether you're homeschooling or if you're doing a private school thing, whatever it is, we want to be a help to you guys.
Speaker 3:That's awesome, and there should also be an episode coming out with your founders.
Speaker 1:Yes, yep, so we recorded a founders episode some weeks back. I should have it out on Patreon this week. So we're end of June right now. I should have it out on Patreon this week for a conversation.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was fun, right. So that was, that was me, that was Eric, dan and Brian, so that was Eric, kind of interviewing the founders of the school, as we were, you know, thinking back a few years ago, what, what was going through our heads, what, what did we want to do, what were we thinking through? I think it will be very, very valuable for anybody else who's thinking through a school, or even just to encourage you if you're homeschooling. Right, getting to listen to that and seeing the vision that we were aiming for and also just kind of the ethos behind the school should be an encouragement for anybody. So that should be posting next episode, I believe, and that'll kind of cap off our first season.
Speaker 3:Perfect. Well, Kevin, I appreciate it. It's been fun. Thanks for having me and we'll catch everybody next season, next episode. Hope it's been an encouragement with the content. Again, check out Patreon Lots of Q&A, lots of help that you guys can gain access to Pick the brain of Headmaster Kevin Love. Here I am.
Speaker 1:Here I am. It is worth picking. Here he stands.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Well, thanks, kevin, and to our listeners, thank you. We appreciate all your support. We will catch you next season.
Speaker 2:We all belong to Jerusalem above, and we sail for Eden's shores and we sail for Eden's shores and we sail for Eden's shores.