Nurse Maureen‘s Health Show
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Nurse Maureen‘s Health Show
When Life Becomes Autism: A Parent's Guide to Supporting a Neurodivergent Child
Welcome to Nurse Maureen's Health Show Podcast, where we dive into the most compelling conversations about health relationships and the human experience. Today, we're exploring a topic that touches the lives of countless families; autism. Good evening. I'm Maureen McGrath, registered nurse, nurse, continence advisor, sexual health educator, and joining me on the line from Ottawa, Canada, is Natacha Raphael, author of "When Life Becomes Autism: A Parent's Guide to Supporting a Neurodivergent Child.
Maureen McGrath:With a deep understanding of the challenges and joys of raising a neurodivergent child, Natacha offers an insightful, compassionate and practical guide for parents navigating this journey. Her book blends heartfelt storytelling with science-backed strategies empowering families to create a nurturing and supportive environment for their children. It's also extremely educational, from her comprehensive review of developmental milestones to signs and symptoms and successes. Her own story is unique and beautiful and starts out with the birth of her beautiful twin sons. In our conversation today, we'll discuss the inspiration behind her book, the Biggest Misconceptions About Autism and how Families Can Foster Stronger Relationships Between Neurodivergent and Neurotypical Siblings. Whether you're a parent, an educator, a physician, a nurse or simply somebody who wants to better understand the autism experience, this episode is for you. So let's get started. Welcome, Natacha. How are you?
Natacha Raphael:Hi, Maureen, thank you so much for having me today. I'm doing great Thanks.
Maureen McGrath:I really appreciate you coming on. I have to say I loved your book from so many perspectives. It was so comprehensive. You explained everything in such detail, yet it had heartfelt stories and science. I mean, it was just. It was just a fantastic mix of everything that is necessary to understand autism. So I'd like to ask you what inspired you to write this book and how does it reflect your personal experiences with autism?
Natacha Raphael:I was inspired to write the book mostly because every time that I was dropping off my son at the clinic, the center where he goes throughout actually not just now, but throughout his journey with autism, I always found myself having discussions with parents or caregivers that were there and giving them tips and tricks of well, did you speak to the school about this? Did you try to meet with the principal about that, or did you try that center or that therapy? And last year I was actually speaking to a friend of mine who was writing a book on a completely different topic that had nothing to do with autism, and as she was speaking, I'm like well, maybe instead of randomly giving tips and tricks to people, maybe I could also put it in a book. And that's pretty much how the book came to fruition.
Maureen McGrath:And I'm so glad you did because it's going to benefit so many people. Your story starts out with the birth of your twin sons a number of years ago. Can you share a bit about that?
Natacha Raphael:Yeah. So I was very surprised to know that I was having twins, as you can imagine, and honestly, the first few weeks, months, actually the first year and a half, I wouldn't have suspected anything out of the ordinary. They were developing fine and they were hitting the milestones, as one of the chapters that I have in the book. And although we never like to compare children, when you have twins you see development in front of your eyes. You see one child, you know, progressing and hitting the milestones from a development standpoint, as it should, and then you see another child literally in front of your eyes, not going in the same route.
Natacha Raphael:And that's pretty much what happened with my kids, like they were babies and just doing what babies do. And at a certain point one of my Adam I'll name him Adam was just, you know, doing the choo-choo trains and singing along with the nursery songs and so on, and Andrew wasn't. Andrew was spinning and flapping his hands and I was like, oh, maybe he's trying to pretend to be a bird, and I wasn't exactly sure what was happening. Actually, I thought it was, I thought it was an auditory problem, I thought it was his ears.
Maureen McGrath:Oh, and that's one of the biggest challenges about autism why don't we, for the listeners, explain what exactly, if you can, if I use that word very gingerly, because you can't really exactly define it. But what is autism? Because it is a spectrum, I understand.
Natacha Raphael:Correct. So autism is a spectrum and many define it as a difficulty from a social skills and social communication difficulty. Social skills and social communication difficulty and, honestly, the first thing that came to my mind when I received the diagnosis, I thought of Rain man and Dustin Hoffman in that movie. That's the only thing that came into my mind at that point in time, but no, in reality came into my mind at that point in time, but no, in reality it's really a neurological disorder and it really affects social skills and social communications. That's a very broad definition, by the way, Because, as you said, it's a spectrum and not everybody. There are elements of autism that you'll say oh well, this is typically an autistic trait, but everyone has it at different levels. Some people are verbal, Some people are nonverbal, Some people you would never even think that they have autism because they could have a perfectly fine conversation with you, but they will miss the mark. They will miss the mark on other social interactions and social skills.
Maureen McGrath:Right, you know I heard Amy Schumer, the comedian, say she was talking about her husband who was diagnosed to be autistic or on the spectrum later in life as an adult, and she was talking about just how much she loved him and how she'd, you know, been with as only Amy can disclose how she'd been with so many men, and but you know she would choose him over any of them, any day of the week, any time of the day. And then she said something interesting, you know. She said aren't we all on the spectrum? After all? You know, and I think there's some truth to that we all have our, dare I say, quirky ways about us, or rituals or habits, or call it whatever you want.
Maureen McGrath:You go through an exhaustive list.
Maureen McGrath:I love this book, by the way, if I haven't said that already, but as a nurse and as a parent and as an aunt, as an educator, you go through an exhaustive list of autism specific behaviors for parents to watch out for.
Maureen McGrath:And I know, you know not only do parents of twins, who are fortunate to have twins, compare their children, or, if they have more than one child, they compare their children, but we also compare our babies to other people's babies as well and, you know, are they advancing in the way that they should? But what are some of the behaviors that parents should be watching out for and what is the criteria for diagnosis? Like in my clinic, for example, I'll hear a parent say, you know, my child does, has anxiety and is toe walking, and they're, you know, six years of age and you know. So how many of these symptoms do people need? And you know how is it diagnosed, because it was an extensive list and you categorized it between motor skills and social skills. So I mean, I would imagine it would not be the easiest diagnosis to make to make Right.
Natacha Raphael:So obviously I won't be able to speak as a physician, but what I can say is that once, as a parent, when you see, for example, your child, you know spinning or flapping their hands or rocking their bodies or putting their hands on their ears, because even though the TV is not particularly loud, your child isn't able to sustain the sound or music, same thing or anything other. I remember for a while, andrew, we would go to the store, the supermarket, and he would just block his ears, the supermarket and he would just block his ears. If you mentioned it earlier, tiptoeing, a very big one, that is, if I could say, an easier one to catch is eye contact. And if you tell your child, oh, look at the bird. And as you're saying, look at the bird, you're actually pointing at the bird and your child isn't following your finger. That's also another easy one, depending on the age of the child.
Natacha Raphael:If your child isn't able to be in the room with other children and, let's say, even though very small children are going to be territorial and they're going to say like this, this is my doll, or this is my toy, or what have you, at the same time they are able to sit together and in some way kind of work, play together. An autistic child will will will shy away from that from a social perspective and go very further away from the other children and won't want to play or be around the other children. Away from the other children and won't want to play or be around the other children. So those are just cues that you know if your child isn't following just basic steps. Those are things that maybe you could open your eyes towards and ask yourself am I missing something here? And definitely those were things that helped me want to seek more attention.
Natacha Raphael:As I said earlier, I thought he couldn't hear us because he wasn't singing along with the nursery rhyme, he wasn't responding to his name. I thought it was an auditory problem. And so even if you have a suspicion, you know, maybe you won't be able to get the diagnosis right away and maybe you'll need to do a little bit of digging. And that's the whole purpose of the book. A lot of parts across the book I encourage parents to play the investigator and ask questions and not to shy away from questions, because maybe it's not autism, you know, maybe it's another, another comorbidity, another comorbidity like ADHD or yeah, which is not uncommon in neurodivergent people.
Maureen McGrath:You, it must have been difficult. You, you mentioned, at 18 months you started to notice a significant difference between your boys, adam and Andrew. How long did it take to finally realize the diagnosis? And then, what was that like raising a neurotypical child and a neurodivergent child?
Natacha Raphael:The moment that I noticed that there were differences, significant differences, to seeing my family doctor because we thought it was it could be auditory. The first person we met was a was an. Well, she had both has. She's. A was an auditory specialist but she also was a speech pathologist and right away she said your son could hear me, your son does not have an auditory problem.
Natacha Raphael:But she kind of hinted and because it's a sensitive topic, not every parent wants to hear it's possibly autism. So she was actually very, very sensitive about it and she didn't just say autism, she just said you know, you might want to do a bit of research in terms of development. And she gave me the report to give to the physician. Obviously, I opened the report and I read it on the spot and by the time I saw my family doctor for a follow up I had already done a lot of the research and so I met with the doctor. He sent us to see a pediatrician, a specialized pediatrician, and by the time the pediatrician did the full diagnosis, it was another, so he had just turned two. So from 18 months to him being two, so about six months it took to actually get the full diagnosis, the official diagnosis and for your second question about raising a typical and neurotypical child.
Maureen McGrath:Well, I guess what I meant was what was it like to hear that news? I have a neurotypical child and I have a neurodivergent child. I'm sure that wasn't your thought, but you know how am I going to, you know, manage this deal with this. I mean, on some levels it can be heartbreaking, you know, but on other levels it's tremendous joy, you know. So just what was that like in terms of looking at it from the perspective of having your twins?
Natacha Raphael:So, as you said, I was devastated because I was mostly scared, and I was devastated because I did. First of all, I, as I said earlier, I didn't even know what it meant and the first thing I had in my mind was Dustin Hoffman in a movie counting cards.
Natacha Raphael:So all I could think of was Andrew in a center somewhere counting cards, and so my first reaction was well, what will the future hold for him? We're not a society that is very open and understands what that means, and so right away my brain went to the future. And what will his trajectory be Like? What will school be like for him? And then to your point, you know, how will I manage that difference of raising and even those words typical, neurodivergent, non-typical?
Maureen McGrath:Exactly.
Natacha Raphael:Then, as I really literally plunged into it, I, I bought every single book. I spent so much time I at the library and so on. Um, I, uh, I told myself I'm just going to raise them the same, like Andrew will have. I made it my purpose, and that's why the book is called when Life Becomes Autism because life became autism. It became.
Natacha Raphael:What am I going to do to ensure that my son, regardless of autism or not, he will be exposed to the same opportunities and he will grow alongside his brother, and regardless of if he's going to count cards or not, what will his future hold? And I wanted him to. I wanted to ensure that he will go as far as he could go and that I made that my promise. And so if you were to spend a few moments at our house, you will notice that I speak to both of them the same way. I expect them to fix their room and I expect them to do their dishes, and I speak to Andrew the same way that I speak to Adam.
Maureen McGrath:Which I think is great. You know, I do hear a lot of parents, you know, speaking baby talk to their six-year-olds and you know, I think it's, it's a great communication style to speak, you know, to children like you would to. I mean, you know, given their age and everything, but not to use this kind of baby talk, if you will, or treat them differently, you know it's, it's. I think that's very helpful. I'm sure it has been helpful and it sounds like it was a transformative moment for you when you realized I'm just going to treat Correct, yes.
Maureen McGrath:Which it sounds like they're very lucky boys and I'm sure they've had their relationship. You, I want to mention as well, you're a single mom right Through through all of this, yes, which you know and you know makes it that much more challenging, because there's really, you know, even with one child, one baby, you know you wait for somebody to come home your partner, your spouse, whomever and to be able to pass that baby off, but that wasn't necessarily the case for you. So you know. Additional stress on top of that what are some of the most significant challenges parents face when raising both a neurotypical and a neurodivergent child?
Natacha Raphael:I think it's the outside world. To be very honest, it's being at the store and, for whatever reason, your child, who is on the spectrum, decides to just run off and not to say that a typical child wouldn't do the same, depending on the age. But you know that it's specifically because of what he's going through. Maybe it's a sound, maybe it's a smell.
Natacha Raphael:You're not exactly sure what triggered the running off, and it's like, okay, well, now I have the one next to me who's not moving, but I need to run after the other one. And the people in the store just look at you as if you cannot control your children. And it's like, no, it's not that I cannot control my children. It's that I have a situation you can help me out if you have a moment, please.
Maureen McGrath:Exactly exactly. But we tend to go to that judgy route, don't we? Especially other mothers? And you know, I mean any two-year-old is perfectly capable of a tantrum in a supermarket. But you know also the the adults are judging, looking upon you and you feel terrible. You know, as a mother, that you know why can't I, I, control this. And then also you know the risks perhaps are different for a neurodivergent child than a neurotypical child as well when they run off. You know, I mean, it's scary whenever, whenever any child runs off. And you know how can parents foster. Because the relationship between your boys, I'm sure it has been like any siblings. It has evolved, it has changed it's. You know it can be harmonious and beautiful and then it can be screaming and fighting like any siblings. What is the relationship like between your now teenage sons? What's it like today?
Natacha Raphael:Yeah, it's exactly what you just described, it's? They like to play video games, adam, because he's competitive, competitive. He likes to control his brother and I have to intervene. But no, honestly, I mean I think, because from the onset I wanted to make sure that they were just growing up as normal brothers and I'm using the word normal not because of a brain situation, but just like any siblings would just grow up together. I just nurtured that, that I had to emphasize to Adam that you know the reality of what Andrew is actually going through, because sometimes he's so used to seeing Andrew just as his brother.
Maureen McGrath:Yes.
Natacha Raphael:That sometimes, if he was having a difficulty understanding a situation or adapting to a situation, adam was so has so been used to just treating his brother just like his brother, not not as his autistic brother. That sometimes I've had to actually intervene towards Adam and say Adam, you just need to cool it a little bit here, because you know he's not seeing the world the way you're seeing the world. So can we just you know give him a chance here.
Maureen McGrath:Yeah, and it's just part of education and I love that that he treats his brother just like any sibling than any sibling he would have. And I also think and you may not see it just yet or you may, but I think it gives people who have grown up with a sibling who, you know, is marginalized or has issues, I think it gives people compassion and I think it makes for better people in the world. But I totally love that he treats him and that they fight and everything. I think that's perfect. I think that's brilliant. What are some of the? I mean, it sounds like you've created a harmonious home environment and your book emphasizes that that that's important. What are some of the practical steps that parents can take to achieve this?
Natacha Raphael:Advocate, advocate, advocate. You know whether it's in the home, whether it's in the family, whether it's that school and mostly at school. It's in the family, whether it's that school and mostly at school. From the very onset you need to be clear. What you know, whatever you would want for yourself, you know, and that's what I've been trying to do for Andrew. I've been trying to be his voice. He only started talking at the age of four, so for a long time he had no voice. So I've done my best, regardless of which situation it was to, to advocate for him, particularly at school.
Maureen McGrath:Right, it must have been just such tremendous joy to hear your little boy speak.
Natacha Raphael:Yes. And you'll never you'll never know, you'll never believe me when I tell him, tell you what his first words word was.
Maureen McGrath:Go ahead If it's. It's hilarious. It was sheep. Sheep, that's cute, that's so funny. Um, that's awesome. You know, I imagine this is extremely difficult for parents. I mean to the A. The diagnosis and all of the advocacy is exhausting and you would get depleted and also managing your job, your work, your external family, so much friends, the public, and there could not be parents that need self-care more than parents of autistic children. What advice do you give for caregivers who feel overwhelmed?
Natacha Raphael:Well, just like you want to make sure your child is safe and has a great environment at school and has the right teachers, and if your child needs an IEP, like an individual educational plan in place for school, and what have you, like an individual educational plan in place for school? And what have you Absolutely For yourself? You need to make sure that you're healthy. You need to your self-care. Taking a moment to either most places across Canada have respite services If you don't have family around, which wasn't the case for me. I lived very far away from my family. You know, find out what the respite services are and take that moment for you, whether it's, you know, to go for a walk, to go for a massage, whatever it is, maybe it's just to stay in your room, right?
Maureen McGrath:Be on the toilet by yourself.
Natacha Raphael:Yes, exactly. Sometimes that's all you need, but 100%. It's just like on the airplane, right? They tell you to take the mask for you first, before you put the mask on anyone else. It's the same thing for you. Make sure that you're able to replenish to be able to take care of your child and your children. To replenish to be able to take care of your child and your children.
Maureen McGrath:Absolutely. And you mentioned family and you know sharing this news that your child is neurodivergent with family must have been a challenge as well. I mean, you know everybody's so excited at the birth of a baby and twins get even way more attention. My sister has twins and I had a baby at the same time and I remember people would just completely ignore my baby, looking into her stroller, you know into her buggy, saying oh, look at the twins, they're beautiful. I'd be like I have a baby too over here, she's cute, but so it must be hard.
Maureen McGrath:It must have been difficult to tell people about your son.
Natacha Raphael:Yeah, it was difficult, mostly because most people don't understand. Unfortunately, there's a stereotype that comes with autism and people don't understand. And so for the older generation people in my family they thought it was that he would never go to school, that he would just be at home, that he would never. They thought more like he wouldn't be intelligent and things like that. He has A's and B's, he does really well at school, and for the rest of the family it wasn't so stereotypical but it was more like non-understanding, like well, what?
Maureen McGrath:does that mean Right? Yes, and it must have been hard enough just to tell them. Natasha, many parents struggle with the idea of fixing their child's neurodiversity. You raise a concept in your book about a mindset shift which is embracing their child's neurodiversity. How do you help them navigate this mindset shift?
Natacha Raphael:That's a good question. I believe that, just like anything in life, you know, literally, I'm going to take some random example, I don't know you. I'm going to go to another type of example, such as losing a job. You could see losing a job as a complete tragedy and, oh my God, what am I going to do? Or you could embrace it and look at it as an opportunity and maybe shift your career or take a different path, and that's what my recommendation is for parents in regards to a mindset for your child with autism.
Natacha Raphael:Your child doesn't need to be fixed. My recommendation is for parents in regards to a mindset for your child with autism. It's your. Your child doesn't doesn't need to be fixed. Your child has an incredible way of looking at the world and you know, we might look at a flower and say, oh wow, the, the flower is red. And your child might see the flower in all kinds of different shapes and and have a different. You know Andrew's really good at that, at taking something and writing about. He really likes comic books, so he draws things and then he makes a little story out of it and it's just beautiful and he finds the way to express himself. And so, instead of trying to fix him. There's nothing actually even saying that. I feel awkward saying it. I don't need to fix him, he's perfectly fine. He sees the world in a beautiful way, and why would I want to fix that? And so it's really about embracing it, in my opinion.
Maureen McGrath:Yes, and I think that's, you know, a society's way of you know we want to fix a lot of things that aren't, you know, fixable if you will. It's just, you know, embracing and looking at it from. They judged them and wanted to change that. But I love the idea of embracing neurodiversity because, quite honestly, I have to agree with Amy Schumer I do believe we're all on the spectrum in some way, myself included. What is one key message from your book that you would like listeners to take away?
Natacha Raphael:Oh my God, there's so many of them.
Natacha Raphael:Depending on where you are in your journey, I would say Learn as much as you can, advocate as much as you can, and for a few years you will be the voice of your child.
Natacha Raphael:He's starting middle school now and I also had to be. Even though he's perfectly capable of speaking, and you know, speaking to his teachers and passing his you know tests and what have you I am still his voice and so you know, depending on where you are in your journey, I guess, learn as much as you can, advocate as much as you can, because your child will have a great life in front of him or her, as long as you you give them that little hand and don't forget that your child is amazing and your child will surprise you. Even when you think they don't understand, they do understand, even when you think that they will fall behind. You know, my son keeps on telling me that he wants to play soccer and I gave him an opportunity. They gave him actually at school an opportunity to play. He's not very well coordinated, but it's fine. I mean, he's playing it doesn't matter.
Natacha Raphael:Exactly, exactly, and so just give him a, give yourself a chance and give your child a chance, and please don't forget to take care of yourself.
Maureen McGrath:Absolutely, it's great advice and you know some parents. As we mentioned, there's a spectrum here. It does sound like Andrew's doing extremely well. I think you'd also talked in your book about you know you didn't wait for the government to come in and help. You actually took the bull by the horns and got him help immediately and you've been extremely proactive. And many parents are struggling with younger children, younger children who might be, you know, lashing out or, you know, screaming and non-communicative, non-verbal. Do you have any advice for parents who might feel isolated in their journey of raising a neurodivergent child?
Natacha Raphael:You know it goes back to that embracing piece If you feel that your child needs more support. I remember if I could give an anecdote here I remember being in a room when Andrew wasn't potty trained and it took him a really long time to be potty trained. It was closer to five years old and and I went to a group, a family discussion on how to support our children, and there was a family there who their school was really adamant that if your child doesn't clean up soon, we're going to have to expel your child and I. That was one of those moments where I stayed behind to speak to that family and there was a problem with the school, like how can your school not allow, how can they not understand that your child is perfectly capable of going to school but needs support in going to the bathroom? Like, how, what kind of society do we live in? And so I guess what I'm trying to get to is that. That's why I keep on talking about advocate advocacy. It's you know, um, interview your school, don't just. Don't just go to the school because they're at the corner street where you live. Go to the school, explain yourself to the school. If that's not the school, then find another school. And maybe some listeners are saying, oh yeah, well, you know, easier said than done. You know, everything that I've experienced was within 10 to 20 kilometers of where I was living, so it is possible to find. Sometimes it was further away, I will admit that I did go across Ontario in some cases, but for the more day to day kind of things it was within a 20 kilometer radius. So you know, depending on where you live, you will be able to find more or less support in your neighborhood, in your community. So, and that's why I keep on saying that, be that advocate and try to put the finger on what's going on. If it's the school, then meet with with the school. If it's the center where your child goes, then speak to the center.
Natacha Raphael:If you don't like your therapist, tell the therapist. Tell the therapist why. I remember, uh, we're, we're originally from montreal and my first language is french and I had one therapist early on telling me why are you insisting that andrew speaks french? You know, like we live in ontario, like he should just speak English, and I'm like yes, but we're a bilingual family and Andrew speaks perfectly French and English today. And so you know you don't like what the therapist says tell the therapist, change therapist. And I know that this requires time, I know it requires a lot of energy, but I guess it's more that reflection that you need to have for yourself. And you know where would you want to be if you were in your child's shoes and I decided to take that on for my child and so you know, from an isolation standpoint, we are a very big community and reach out. Reach out. If you're in BC, I'm sure there's a large community of parents that support each other. Every single province there is. There is a community, and find your community because we're there.
Maureen McGrath:Absolutely it's. It's great advice and you know, know, and I do think we need to teach our children to accept others, that nobody is perfect. You know, be kind, be compassionate and be understanding and, you know, reach out to these kids. It's, it's a different story, but I remember when one of my children, my daughter, was in the first grade and she was in a new school and she came home one day and she said to me mommy, you know, I met a new friend today and he has AIDS. And I said, oh, and I just didn't react and that was that.
Maureen McGrath:And then, six weeks later, when I went to the parent teacher conference, they said, oh, and your daughter is so lovely to this child, you know, his AIDS, tell us. And I said, oh, his AIDS, tell you. I said my daughter came home and told me that he had AIDS. I said I just assumed it was an HIV infection. And they said, oh, thank you so much for not panicking and losing.
Maureen McGrath:You know, coming back and complaining, I said, no, you know, it's of. Of course. We just want every. We're all in this together. You know, we're all walking this planet together and and we must do and communication is critical as well Very important.
Maureen McGrath:But you know, if a child comes home and says that there is, you know, somebody who you know is toe walking or flapping, you know that you know. Just having a conversation about that and just accepting that child and maybe reaching out to be that child's friend, I think is so important because oftentimes the kids learn from the parents and, as you said right at the beginning of this interview, you were afraid, it was fear, you didn't know what you were facing, and I think that's a lot of people as well. But if we become more educated, like you know, by reading your beautiful book when Life Becomes Autism A Parent's Guide to Supporting a Neurodivergent Child, by my guest, natasha Raphael, you will be able to understand this and reduce any fears or unknowns that you might or misconceptions that you might have. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the listeners, natasha?
Natacha Raphael:Yes, actually you were talking about kindness and so on, and I think that, even though I did a lot of my homework in terms of selecting the right school for Andrew, I would really encourage schools and teachers to lean in and learn about autism, because Andrew has been very blessed in having incredible teachers.
Natacha Raphael:When we moved from Toronto to the Ottawa area, his third grade teacher at the time, right off the bat, from the very first day of school, she told all the friends in the classroom we have a special friend in class and we will be kind to this friend. And as the years progressed, you know third grade and they went to the fourth grade and the fourth grade and so on and so on. They were all pretty much the same children going from one grade to the next and throughout his school years all of these kids were very kind to him and it was really that tone of that very first teacher who kind of said the tone and that I think also played a really big part in his success at school because he felt embraced and accepted and I think that that was really important. So any teachers out there listening, you know, please embrace autism and learn about it.
Maureen McGrath:Natasha, where can people get your beautiful book?
Natacha Raphael:It's currently available on Amazon.
Maureen McGrath:Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for writing this. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Best of luck through the teenage years, because you know they're a challenge too on top of that.
Maureen McGrath:Yeah. So thanks again. And if you are listening and you know somebody who might benefit from this episode or from reading this book, uh, feel free to share the episode, but I also have a copy of the book. Natasha has been so graciously generous to offer me a book to give to one of my listeners. So if you'd like to text the show, if you would like to win this copy of this book, by all means text the show or email me nursetalkathotmailcom. I would be happy to mail it to you, natasha. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
Natacha Raphael:Thank you, maureen, it was lovely. Thank you.
Maureen McGrath:Thanks so much for tuning in. I'm Maureen McGrath and you have been listening to the Sunday Night Health Show podcast. If you want to hear this podcast or any other segment again, feel free to go to iTunes, spotify or Google Play or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. You can always email me nursetalk at hotmailcom or text the show 604-765-9287. That's 604-765-9287. That's 604-765-9287. Or head on over to my website for more information. Maureenmcgrathcom, it's been my pleasure to spend this time with you. Ladies, let's talk about something we don't often talk about pelvic floor health. Whether it's postpartum changes, aging or just the demands of everyday life, many women struggle with bladder leaks and a lack of self-confidence. But what if I told you there's an effortless solution? Meet the Emcella chair just 30 minutes, fully dressed, and it will do thousands of Kegels for you Strengthen your pelvic floor, improve intimacy and feel confident again. So say no to incontinence and start to enjoy life again leak-free. Ask your doctor about the Emcella chair. For more information, go to wwwemcellacom. That's wwwemcellacom.